Mini 2156: Launch Mob [Game Over]

[Battle Mage]

@Mafi: I do enjoy not agonizing over my posts as much when playing town and focusing on gamesolving, but I think I might have a slight preference to scum. Both are enjoyable, but there's something satisfying about knowing alignments and what that can do to how you play

Plus, you have teammates that you're playing with that you know you can trust

...at least, when they bother to check the PT...

i feel this

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: cant[redacted]apuppy

[Battle Mage]

My loyalty to midwaybear is unwavering...

for day 1...

not binding...

[Battle Mage]

(Is that what people thought I was reacting to?)

Y e s

VOTE: midwaybear

L-1

You thought that I thought this was a hammer?

The L-1 vote?

The vote that put you at L-1?

The L-1 vote that put you at L-1 specifically labeled "L-1?"

erm presumably he's on about the vote by InnocentVillager after the L-1 vote, which immediately preceded your post, and to the untrained eye may have appeared to be a hammer.

Not that I agree or care, but just saying.

It's the puppy anyway

[Battle Mage]

I have replaced them for everyone's convenience:

1) Are you mafia or town? Town Town
2) Are you a luncher or a launcher? Launcher Luncher
3) Where did you get those scars? I don't have scars yeah
4) How excited are you to play this game? 7.5 out of 105
5) Are you my mafia partner? No i'll never tell
6) Do you prefer playing as town or mafia?

Town yes

me^

i'm going to scumhunt good this game, given

i shipped my last one like an idiot

i am on a great run of form

[Battle Mage]

i must admit the puppy’s name does pose a challenge to me...

(and i STILL DONT KNOW WHAT BREED IT IS)

i’ll find midways scum partner when i’m home.

is there anything else you'd like to "admit"?

i'm fairly confident that Goon has the brains to jump on the puppy wagon

[Battle Mage]

i mean midway's iso does look like crap but

[Battle Mage]

erm presumably he's on about the vote by InnocentVillager after the L-1 vote, which immediately preceded your post, and to the untrained eye may have appeared to be a hammer.

Not that I agree or care, but just saying.

Meh don't like this from Battle Mage. Answers a question directed at someone else, and he is pretty self-aware of this which is scummy.

We're not in the newbie forum now, but I teach newbies this all the time - it's fine to answer questions directed at somebody else.

It's also not a remotely interesting question, so it doesn't matter who answers it - I think I made that point quite clearly in an effort to progress the discussion.

Do you stand by your read above? If so, please explain:

A. Why you think the L-1 "question" was particularly important?
B. Whether you think my "answer" was right or wrong?
C. What you think was lost in terms of sorting somebody's slot as a result of me answering this?
D. Based on responses A-C, why you think my action was scum-indicative, with reference to your assessment of me being "self-aware" of it?

i mean midway's iso does look like crap but

VOTE: Battle Mage

Is this a random vote, or would it be helpful if I set out some of my perspective on your ISO?

It's ok to admit if you don't really care.

[Battle Mage]

Rules

…

Conduct

…
7. Don't use encryption,

tiny

/hidden/unreadable text, or anything that could be easily confused for such.

oops sorry sir

Everyone please take note of this rule. Tiny text may be entirely unreadable on some screens and thus is effectively hidden text.

My loyalty to midwaybear is unwavering...

for day 1...

not binding...

hm

snitches get stitches...

[Battle Mage]

Midway - your formatting screwed me up, but I've marked your answers in red below.

A. It's not very important but not a lot of people were talking so I decided to ask it. blair's reaction was not normal though.

It didn't ping me at the time. As a courtesy to you, I went back and re-read. Having done so, I still don't think there's anything scummy about her reaction.

B. Your answer was wrong too because I wasn't really thinking about IV so it was more of my mistake.

So I over-estimated you? I'm inclined to believe this.

C. Your answer was wrong so my answer would be the one lost.

Why would your answer be lost? You chose not to give your own answer at the first opportunity, and have only done so now because of my probing. So I'm not inclined to believe you cared that much about your answer being lost, and it clearly wouldn't have been. In any case, by your own admission, this wasn't an important topic anyway, so is your answer being lost a particularly bad thing? And given you have voted me as a result of my intervention which you deemed "scummy", do you now accept that I was right that the fact I answered the question was +EV for sorting? Or would you be more comfortable disagreeing because you don't want to be seen to backtrack?

D. I can see you answering that to try to look helpful as scum. There's not a lot of reason to answer it as town.

I'm surprised you think this, as I don't think it was a particularly helpful answer, given that it turned out to be wrong, was about something utterly pointless, was not even given in a manner which was designed to be particularly helpful. You've made it clear in your answer to C that me answering the question was constructive in enabling you to sort my slot - which is something I'd normally associate as being pro-town (willingness to engage, yadda yadda). Of course, you've taken a wrong turn in response to that, but that's neither here nor there. There are plenty of reasons to answer the question as town, but I can tell from your wording above that you felt it was too much trouble to consider them. It was, from my perspective, a pointless line of questioning, and I wanted to nip it in the bud. To continue to pretend something is AI when it isn't, and wilfully waste time talking about inconsequentials, are more typical scum behaviours. In our previous game together, in which I was also town, I expect there were instances where I answered 'questions' (or more accurately, responded to stuff) not intended for me. Can you explain why that would be scum-indicative here when you know I have done it as town elsewhere? A generous interpretation of your position here would be that you're failing to avail yourself of your experience, and not taking the care to think about motivations for actions in order to determine my alignment. A less generous intepretation would be that you are not appraising me in good faith, and perceive me as an easy target, against whom you can pursue a lazy ill-considered argument.

[Battle Mage]

so now you view putting someone at L-1 a scumtell?

The "so you're saying" tell for cognitive dissonance.

No, I'm not saying putting someone at L-1 is a scum tell. I would encourage you to review my posts and find evidence to substantiate your claim that this is my position (spoiler: this will be very difficult).

cognitive dissonance eh? Never stop learning

[Battle Mage]

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

Ok thanks.

This is a fair point.

I was thinking your strong reaction was based on him quickhammering/almost quickhammering me because he does that a lot as scum.

Why did you not ask, either originally, or subsequently when you realised your mistake, why Blair didn't respond to Innocentvillager's fake hammer? If you thought her reaction to Dunnstral was an over-reaction, did you not also think that her failure to acknowledge innocentvillager was an under-reaction? Surprised you didn't comment on this.

Is your acknowledgement in blue above, paving the way for you to vote Dunnstral?

[Battle Mage]

i mean midway's iso does look like crap but

join the wagon battle!

it'll be fun

do you have genuine intent to kill, or just playing?

[Battle Mage]

Nice eyeroll. Really felt the emotion there.

Why should I hop on Launchy, Battle Mage?

who is launchy?

[Battle Mage]

Midway ISO highlights

this is a good wagon

Are you serious? If so, why?

This feels like an unusually serious line to take so early, although some players are just like this. This isn't consistent however...

I'm always serious

I think this is a lie.

Town again

Wdym by town AGAIN? You were scum last time

Wtf, I wasn't actually expecting to roll mafia goon lmao
Maybe Umlaut has a sick sense of humour

Uh I don't see your name in the scum PT...

Anyways, I think Dunnstral is town for not letting the L-1 vote sit on me. Don't have anything solid on anyone else.

Out of nowhere, a bit of banter about being scum. Then an awkward segue "aaaaanyways..."

Anyways, I think Dunnstral is town for not letting the L-1 vote sit on me. Don't have anything solid on anyone else.

this is a solid read for you? id like to know more

Well it's not much, but it's the best idea I have for now. My gut tells me you're town, so I can work with that too.

In response to Mafiagoon...
1. Town
2. Launcher
3. Pretty excited
4. I like town better now because I realized I'm not that good at mafia.

"my gut tells me you're town" on page 2? sounds like an informed minority.

scummy answers to the 4 questions.

My friends call me Mafi, midway. Don't you dare suggest we're not friends.

You used to enjoy playing as scum more?

ok goon Yes, I did.

@Blair maybe... I guess it could come from both town and scum, but I feel like scum has more incentive to leave the vote on.

light foreplay with Mafia Goon. Very jokey, and not taking the bait of being friendly - which I think is slightly scum-indicative, as town are often more liberal with their allegiances.

I just realized that sometimes websites ask you for your mother's maiden name for confirmation of passwords and stuff. Mafia Goon is asking for a credit card info...
I advise you to skip over questions 3 and 5.

Inconceivable that anyone would have fallen for this, why even bother saying it? it was clearly a joke.

have you ever directly caught a mafia goon by using your Alignment Indicative Solving Questions, or is it more of a way to get people to talk?

Inane question, playing dumb about these questions. In the last game I played with Midway, this same approach was used, and the same conversation ensued about why it was done. Why ask the question if he already knows the answer? Just playing dumb.

i am a bit suspicious of you being a mafia goon.

Is this legit?

The puppy is cool

Non-serious question misleadingly framed as a serious one.

I tried to write something like Blair did, but I can't.

Why do you scumread me?

nuff said.

Oh, you have GOT to be kidding me...

Dunnstral. Did you actually roll scum AGAIN?

so now you view putting someone at L-1 a scumtell?

erm presumably he's on about the vote by InnocentVillager after the L-1 vote, which immediately preceded your post, and to the untrained eye may have appeared to be a hammer.

Not that I agree or care, but just saying.

Meh don't like this from Battle Mage. Answers a question directed at someone else, and he is pretty self-aware of this which is scummy.

i’ll find midways scum partner when i’m home.

First mafia goon and now me? You really need to explain yourself.

i mean midway's iso does look like crap but

VOTE: Battle Mage

I've already covered the substance of this in some detail, but the vote for me here is really weak, and is likely driven by a perceived self-conciousness about posting frequently but not voting since an original random vote. Probably about the time scum might consider this at risk of looking conspicuous. Midway needs to make another vote and wants to make it sound serious so he looks like he is progressing the game. More marks for presentation than substance.

[Battle Mage]

do we know that there are exactly 3 scum? or is it merely probable

please don't read into this question from an alignment perspective I just want to know thanks

^i would ask this as town or scum.

Does anyone else think this is sorta awkward?
Sorry Umlaut, but happy birthday!

superficially yes, but:

A. It's innocentvillager, so it's NAI.
B. No obvious motivation to post this as scum.
C. I've only ever seen him in Open setups, so I buy the justification.

I would say it stands out to me more that you didn't make this observation when you first responded to the post, and instead answered the question at face value, and then returned 20 minutes later to throw that shade.

[Battle Mage]

I just want to know what people's thoughts are on this, I don't have a good sense for closed game setup spec. But I've seen people ask this stuff multiple times in past games and it leads to some speculation about their alignment, so I wanted to acknowledge that I was conscious of this fact to make people read into it less. I hope me saying that doesn't make people read into it more -_-

thinking about this, I'm gonna say it's mildly town indicative, as you deliberately posted something for no reason which you knew might instigate speculation about your alignment.

[Battle Mage]

Why aren't you using any emojis, Battle Mage? I miss them. You make some good points on the bear - I know he's mislaunched frequently though so I'm gonna look at some meta first.

If I kill some scum, I'll post some emojis.

And yes that's fair, he was elimmed Day 1 in my only game with him. I remember him being less scummy there though.

[Battle Mage]

i really don't think blair's reaction shows anything at all and isn't worth dissecting like this

i agree with the puppy.

Ydrasse - how come you didn't agree with me when I said that earlier?

[Battle Mage]

@Mafia Goon I'm apparently scummy as town and I believe that I am scummy as scum. I will be interested in how your meta dive works.

I don't think I considered you scummy in Newbie 2011, but from recollection you didn't claim at L-1, and I hammered you to avoid a deadline no-lynch.

[Battle Mage]

I was thinking your strong reaction was based on him quickhammering/almost quickhammering me because he does that a lot as scum.

You acknowledging this makes your earlier arguing look weird

So what are you going to do about it? For the record, I am not scumreading you right now. I think you should address Blair's point though. What you did could be perceived as scummy self consciousness.

Translation: If you dare fking scumread me, I'm going to OMGUS the living shit out of you. Now don't look at me!

In any case, by your own admission, this wasn't an important topic anyway, so is your answer being lost a particularly bad thing?

I agree that me not answering is not very important, but I was just answering your question.

I'm not sure how this stacks up against your original attack on me for answering the question for you, where you suggested you were very worried about your answer being lost. Please can you remind me again why you're voting for me?

You've made it clear in your answer to C that me answering the question was constructive in enabling you to sort my slot

But I didn't...

Why are you lying about this?

It was, from my perspective, a pointless line of questioning, and I wanted to nip it in the bud. To continue to pretend something is AI when it isn't, and wilfully waste time talking about inconsequentials, are more typical scum behaviours.

This is fair and may be an accurate representation of what I did.

Can you explain why that would be scum-indicative here when you know I have done it as town elsewhere?

I don't remember you doing it in our previous game, but I believe you because it's risky to lie about it.

Good answers.

A less generous intepretation would be that you are not appraising me in good faith, and perceive me as an easy target, against whom you can pursue a lazy ill-considered argument.

I do not think you are an easy target and it follows that I would need better arguments to launch you.

On reflection, I believe you don't think I'm an easy target. But if you feel that you need strong arguments to elim me, why are you tickling me with nonsense? Reaction testing?

Why did you not ask, either originally, or subsequently when you realised your mistake, why Blair didn't respond to Innocentvillager's fake hammer? If you thought her reaction to Dunnstral was an over-reaction, did you not also think that her failure to acknowledge innocentvillager was an under-reaction? Surprised you didn't comment on this.

I'm not really sure about this. You have a good point here. I think I remembered Dunnstral more because he also thought Blair's reaction was "over the top".

Maybe she didn't care because she knew it was fake.

Isn't this you doing exactly what you accused me of? Answering a question for Blair. Only in this case, it's a relevant question, and rather than even seek to ask her, you simply give a justification for her.

Is your acknowledgement in blue above, paving the way for you to vote Dunnstral?

No.

Ok, we'll see.

This feels like an unusually serious line to take so early, although some players are just like this. This isn't consistent however...

Is this scummy or what?

Is it? Are you asking for a town view before you commit your own? Good to have an explanation on this.

"my gut tells me you're town" on page 2? sounds like an informed minority.

scummy answers to the 4 questions.

Not really, but whatever you say

As you know, I have a bit of form using this approach - you don't care for my opinion though? Even though you were quick to ask Mafia Goon for his view on the same earlier?

Very jokey, and not taking the bait of being friendly - which I think is slightly scum-indicative, as town are often more liberal with their allegiances.

Wouldn't it be the opposite where scum would be more inclined to buddy up?

Not in my experience, no. Scum tend to get overly nervous about being buddied - maybe too much attention, maybe they worry it's a PR crumbing, or most likely they see it as an easy route to attack someone. Town on the other hand, often try and form townblocs, and when successful these can be very effective. And fundamentally town have less to lose from doing so, because they arent so worried about how people perceive them.

In the last game I played with Midway, this same approach was used, and the same conversation ensued about why it was done.

Last game I played with you I was town.

...I know. Your alignment in that game isn't relevant, my point was that you had already asked the same question about the exact same thing in another game, and so you asking the question here must not be genuine, as

you already know the answer.

I've already covered the substance of this in some detail, but the vote for me here is really weak, and is likely driven by a perceived self-conciousness about posting frequently but not voting since an original random vote. Probably about the time scum might consider this at risk of looking conspicuous. Midway needs to make another vote and wants to make it sound serious so he looks like he is progressing the game. More marks for presentation than substance.

Regarding needing to make a serious vote, I feel like we were still in the early joking stage of the game. We weren't really transitioning to the more serious part, so I disagree that scum me would be inclined to do so at that time.

Are you claiming your vote on me is an intentional joke? Otherwise, I don't think you can sustain that reasoning, as it would be self-evident that you felt we were transitioning to a more serious part of the game.

Not really sure what to make of Battle Mage yet. Seems quite serious which is different but NAI.

Can you set out your assessment of me, maybe using 2 lists "town" and "scum" and listing points under each?

[Battle Mage]

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

lmfao who's the third?

VOTE: ready2rock

excuse me?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: nosferatu

[Battle Mage]

i really don't think blair's reaction shows anything at all and isn't worth dissecting like this

i agree with the puppy.

Ydrasse - how come you didn't agree with me when I said that earlier?

...gonna be

honest

i just did not see you say it, but i agree with you too battle mage!

Much appreciated. I'm sorry about your heart.

The dialogue with Midway is helpful for me - would you like to share your conclusions on it so far?

[Battle Mage]

Ydrasse, Innocentvillager - how about leaving the midway wagon and joining me on nosferatu. much more to be gained over here.

[Battle Mage]

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

lmfao who's the third?

VOTE: ready2rock

excuse me?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: nosferatu

ur excused

ur dead

[Battle Mage]

it is okay, i shall recover.

i don't have too many conclusions to draw from it so far. like i said i feel that midway is acting different than the last game i played with him where he was scum but that might be by virtue of a) a wagon forming super fast on him when he thought he was pushing a miselim through and... actually yeah just a. i do think there are some things that he's said that mirror his behavior in that previous game but it doesn't have the same tone of... smugness?

for you, i tend to read these sort of early-game pushes for content as towny because it's an effort to find scum even if it's working with bare minimum. however, i don't really... get why you changed your vote to nosferatu just now? if you're putting this pressure on midway and it's helping you, why are you pivoting now?

p-edit: why tho.

what game was this? id be interested to read a midway scumgame.

I was never voting for midway and I feel like I'm getting loads of valuable insight from him through our exchanges. I also take the point Mafia Goon raised earlier that Midway is used to being elimmed Day 1, and we aren't likely to get anything more from him by wagonning him. In contrast Nosferatu is doing nothing, and I want to see how he reacts under a bit of pressure.

And seriously, if he doesn't do something useful, we'll just lynch him.

[Battle Mage]

@Ydrasse: don't worry. It might look like a lot, but I'm still posting those one liners
I'll reply to BM later, but @BM what made you change your vote? Was it something I did or something Nosferatu did?

As above, I was voting for Puppy previously but it wasn't doing much and I didn't feel really strongly about it. I'm getting town-tells and scum-tells from you - undecided as yet. Nosferatu just looks like classic lazy lurker-scum.

[Battle Mage]

@Ydrasse: don't worry. It might look like a lot, but I'm still posting those one liners
I'll reply to BM later, but @BM what made you change your vote? Was it something I did or something Nosferatu did?

As above, I was voting for Puppy previously but it wasn't doing much and I didn't feel really strongly about it. I'm getting town-tells and scum-tells from you - undecided as yet. Nosferatu just looks like classic lazy lurker-scum.

i just got here how am i lurker scum lmao

it's page 7, you aint posted shit and when asked to elaborate on the little you had said, you didn't wanna play.

[Battle Mage]

it is okay, i shall recover.

i don't have too many conclusions to draw from it so far. like i said i feel that midway is acting different than the last game i played with him where he was scum but that might be by virtue of a) a wagon forming super fast on him when he thought he was pushing a miselim through and... actually yeah just a. i do think there are some things that he's said that mirror his behavior in that previous game but it doesn't have the same tone of... smugness?

for you, i tend to read these sort of early-game pushes for content as towny because it's an effort to find scum even if it's working with bare minimum. however, i don't really... get why you changed your vote to nosferatu just now? if you're putting this pressure on midway and it's helping you, why are you pivoting now?

p-edit: why tho.

what game was this? id be interested to read a midway scumgame.

I was never voting for midway and I feel like I'm getting loads of valuable insight from him through our exchanges. I also take the point Mafia Goon raised earlier that Midway is used to being elimmed Day 1, and we aren't likely to get anything more from him by wagonning him. In contrast Nosferatu is doing nothing, and I want to see how he reacts under a bit of pressure.

And seriously, if he doesn't do something useful, we'll just lynch him.

it waaaaas this one, newbie 2018.

also fair i guess, i just kind of think that pressure on someone like you were applying goes hand in hand with a vote this early on.

what is "useful" in this situation though? like you call them lazy/lurker but.. didn't they just confirm?

i didn't need to vote - the fact I'm feeling up Midway, doesn't mean I'm not looking at other people too. At this stage. it's more helpful to wagon quiet players to encourage them to talk, and if they are scum, put them under a bit of pressure.

Nosferatu hadnt posted for ages, and when they did turn up (only after being threatened with replacement), they posted nothing useful and didn't want to engage in a dialogue to help sort their slot. It's what I call the road to rome special.

Useful in that context could be many things - scumhunting, engaging in conversations, being open and giving opinions. normal town stuff.

[Battle Mage]

ah, I guess I was a bit ambiguous

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

lmfao who's the third?

VOTE: ready2rock

wtf is this? ELABORATE

[Battle Mage]

Nosferatu - what's your thinking on the game so far? do you have any reads/views?

[Battle Mage]

I’m not really sure how much BM actually believes in his Nosferatu push. It feels like a dumb push to make.

The first sentence may be fair. The second is not, and I would like you to explain it. I am a firm believer in the value of putting people under pressure and seeing how they react, and also getting people to put some words out there, and not just lurk and avoid scrutiny. It's objectively pro-town and the right thing to do, irrespective of my alignment, so I'm surprised to see you dismiss it off-hand.

bm i feel it's... a bit much to expect the second a person show up they lay out a grand platter of stuff for us to chew upon.

You're misrepping me - I haven't said I expected that. But let me remind you of the sequence of events...

Nosferatu shows up:

Seeking a replacement for Nosferatu.

oop

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

lmfao who's the third?

VOTE: ready2rock

^ Not clear what the question above means, or why he voted where he did (although could be random, not necessarily, and worth asking). It does seem though, from the post he picked out, that he has likely been following/read at least some of the game.

This is his only contribution and then he goes away for a bit.

I show up to ask for a bit more explanation of his only post:

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

lmfao who's the third?

VOTE: ready2rock

excuse me?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: nosferatu

Rather than responding and giving any more comment to allow anyone to evaluate his slot, or to put his own opinions out there to influence the discussion, he is evasive and dismisses my question:

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

lmfao who's the third?

VOTE: ready2rock

excuse me?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: nosferatu

ur excused

Subsequently, I follow up by reiterating that question and pressing him for more opinion/comment.

[Battle Mage]

Nosferatu hadnt posted for ages, and when they did turn up (only after being threatened with replacement), they posted nothing useful and didn't want to engage in a dialogue to help sort their slot. It's what I call the road to rome special.

lmao i wasn't threatened with replacement, i was in the process of being replace and i happened remember i signed up for this in time to not get replaced.

ah, I guess I was a bit ambiguous

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

lmfao who's the third?

VOTE: ready2rock

wtf is this? ELABORATE

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

ur telling me that blair geniunely believes dunn took back a L-1 vote cause he was feeling self conscious?

thats crazy bro

Nosferatu - what's your thinking on the game so far? do you have any reads/views?

i think that if dunn flips red so does blair but not the other way around

Ok, why arent you voting Blair then? Is that post really the only thing you want to comment on? FWIW I basically agree with Ydrasse assessment in #159.

[Battle Mage]

innocentvillager, do you wanna townbloc with me?

[Battle Mage]

sorry y'all, I'll be back late tomorrow/early Sat. Busy saving the world from CV-19...this town will need to wait until the weekend!

[Battle Mage]

This is not very helpful. I don't understand anything!

This is very unhelpful. I misunderstood everything!

It seems everyone needs a bit of clarity....don't worry, Drunk BM in da house!

[Battle Mage]

4 new pages? ugh, i cba, i'll be back in the morning.

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

Right now I'm not liking BM all that much. He's claiming that he had both town and scum tells from midway, but I only ever saw him give midway the least charitable reading possible and sounded very sure midway was scum (see: his iso read at 110) until he decided to push someone else, then suddenly he was having a slight town read on midway all along

VOTE: Battle Mage

@BM What specifically gives you any town vibes on midway? And when, if at all, did your read change?

That all being said I don't like Nosferatu's entrance into the game all that much either, very combative

Happy birthday Umlaut!

I think this comes from town. I don't think newbie scum chooses to gun for me when there's no momentum and it's likely that I get all OMGUSy and tunnel-visiony which just brings them into the limelight. And I can see how newbie town could find my approach unusual/alarming.

By way of response, I was mostly trying to test how Midway would react to me probing, so you're right that my interpretations were not always "charitable" but that was intentional in order to put him under pressure. I never voted for Midway, and as per my analysis there were scummy bits and townie bits to his play - so my read developed throughout the discussion. Overall, I feel good about him because he didn't shy away from a proper dialogue with me, his engagement was genuine and he was prepared to concede more ground than I think scum would feel comfortable with. But that doesn't mean he's townblocked, and there may be things to return to later.

[Battle Mage]

I’m not really sure how much BM actually believes in his Nosferatu push. It feels like a dumb push to make.

my question is: are dumb pushes more prone to come from town or scum though.

WTF!? "Dumb push"??

bm i feel it's... a bit much to expect the second a person show up they lay out a grand platter of stuff for us to chew upon.

You're misrepping me - I haven't said I expected that. But let me remind you of the sequence of events...

i feel like this is going to devolve in a pedantic back and forth because i don't see it as a misrep fmpov.

*offers hand* agree to disagree?

No! Because as above, you're implying my push on Nosferatu was dumb even though I actually went to the trouble of explaining it in Post 160, which you ignored.

[Battle Mage]

i think BM leans town and 176 from rock felt weird. I hate the reason for voting BM and the side dig on Nosferatu both of which I disagree with

Happy birthday, Umlaut!

FoS: Ready2Rock

VOTE: ready2rock I can get behind this

This post has a higher probability of becoming important later than most.

Blair - why did you FoS R2R above? and what was the rationale for your comment about Innocentvillager's post becoming important later?

VOTE: Noseferatu

I don't have any strong reads and I want to sheep on this for a big

This post has a higher probability of becoming important later than most.

Meh the reasoning for voting BM was ok, but I do agree that the jab at Nosferatu was pretty scummy.
I'm liking puppy for puppy last few posts, but idk why.

I like Puppy too but my gut says he be scum. I don't think the jab at Nosferatu was scummy - he

was

being combative and unhelpful. But I do agree the reasoning for voting me was ok.

[Battle Mage]

that being said, nosferatu, why do you say that about dunn/blair? i didn't take anything away from their exchange personally.

Ok, why arent you voting Blair then? Is that post really the only thing you want to comment on? FWIW I basically agree with Ydrasse assessment in #159.

i dont want to get too into it without either flipping which is why i decided not to push either

You have 1 read out of the whole game, which was that either/both of Blair/Dunn were scum...and you decided not to push either. So 2 questions:

Why would you not push your only scumreads, unless you don't actually want to elim scum?

If you don't want to push them, why do you not have some more reads/do something else?

Lurky dude.

Town on the other hand, often try and form townblocs, and when successful these can be very effective.

Ok, but wouldn't scum be incentivized to buddy so that they can get into townblocks?

In theory yeah but it doesn't often happen, because scum are scared of buddying.

[Battle Mage]

This from Dunnstral is not good. No effort to engage with new content, just doubling-down on his same position from 4 pages earlier. Why not enough to vote at the time, but worth voting 4 pages later?

Spoiler:

VOTE: midwaybear
L-1

I think he looks kind of awkward here

Where?

I was thinking your strong reaction was based on him quickhammering/almost quickhammering me because he does that a lot as scum.

You acknowledging this makes your earlier arguing look weird

I don't like this. How do you

know

he's town? Because he's funny and a character?

I expect Mafi to solve the game because he's town and my plan is to lurk and take all the credit. I thought I was clear about this

I basically agree with this:

Then there's no reason to make those posts in the first place. He won't be townread for a dumbtell that he's hyper aware of. Note, I'm not townreading him for the dumbtell itself.

I largely disagree with this, although still think innocentvillager is town:

Meh the reasoning for voting BM was ok, but I do agree that the jab at Nosferatu was pretty scummy.

Okay... where's the vote then?

I don't like the reasoning for voting BM. How did you feel when he backed off you? You were the one who was interacting with the most (tbf I didn't really through the whole wall wars, too many nested quotes and I got confused) so you should have the best sense of this. There's no reason that it's necessarily scummy to back off after grilling someone for a bit, which is BM's style anyway, and it seems more likely that lurkerscum!rock just needed some easy content to pass off as analysis. Like tell me genuinely why what he described specifically could be reasonably interpreted as scum motivated with some amount of thought and confidence.

That and the Nosferatu vote seems like an incredibly superficial analysis which he seems unnaturally confident in and I don't believe that he's read your wall wars in their entirety. Neither of these feel much like a real town process.

In general I hate these kinds of lurking catchup posts that just cast shade on people for superficial reasons without mentioning any townreads. As scum I get upset when townies get into a wall war with each other and subsequently unvote each other. I get upset when town forms townblocs. It's natural for scum!me to want to cast doubt on these. The fact that this is the material he decided to include in his catchup post is particularly incriminating for me.

Does this stack up with your earlier statement that you read my quote walls, which formed the basis for a townread on me?:

Nothing, he's got 4 posts and 2 reads. don't agree that BM was uncharitable to midway, but i only skimmed that, if someone thinks this is a super important interaction please make the case

[Battle Mage]

Scumpool
CantLynchAPuppy
Dunnstral
Ydrasse
Nosferatu**

Townpool
midwaybear
ready2rock
innocentvillager
Mafia Goon

Wildcard
Blair

[Battle Mage]

I don't like this. Blair gives IV props for sheeping her, and then Ydrasse immediately follows up by also sheeping her. Ydrasse - who actually were you sheeping here, and why?

Spoiler:

@blair he did elaborate here.

You misunderstand. I wasn't mocking him for failing to explain his read.

I was praising him for sheeping my glorious read.

i sheep this

VOTE: ready2rock

i don't think that ready2rock's statement about nosferatu is really that confident though, tbf. "very combatitive" is strong wording ig but given that it's pinned on as an afterthought i'd argue that there isn't a lot of heart in it.

i think BM leans town and 176 from rock felt weird. I hate the reason for voting BM and the side dig on Nosferatu both of which I disagree with

Why do you disagree? What makes you read BM town (which it sounds like you're implying here)?

To clarify a bit, my case is that in his read of midway, especially his ISO analysis post, he presents every post and basically waves his arms and says "see? this is clearly scum!" There's almost no "this isn't too bad" or "I could see this coming from misled town, but..." and this is what I meant by uncharitable. It felt so confident for page 5, and made the fact that he completely changed course feel strange as well.

Taken alongside your original assessment, I'm not really clear here if your criticism of me is that I was being uncharitable and tunnelling, or that I was being too open-minded and fluctuating between town and scumreads? An excess of "this isn't too bad" or "I could see this coming from misled town" isn't conducive to putting somebody under pressure. The fact I never voted for Midway should be sufficient demonstration that I wasn't certain he was scum at any stage, so it isn't accurate to suggest I completely changed course.

I’m super unsure on what Dunn is trying to accomplish with 192 and 194. Did he think midway was L-1? Does he think that his case from half the game ago is actually compelling enough to just recycle as reason to put him at this supposed L-1? I kinda want to say that this is too careless to come from scum. Been wrong on that before, but I'll go with that for now

Less careless; more lazy. Lazy scum is a thing.

Then there's no reason to make those posts in the first place. He won't be townread for a dumbtell that he's hyper aware of. Note, I'm not townreading him for the dumbtell itself.

I think there’s not a real reason to make a post like this D1. Maybe later if solving the setup becomes relevan/we get more info on the setup, but not this early. At the same time I agree with others that it doesn't point in either direction towards alignment

I think the consensus is that the series of posts was town-indicative. Does this mean you disagree with others? Or was this a mistake?

Spoiler:

OK so bear with me, trying to help people understand what I'm talking about here

Please read the post for yourself and point out if you feel I'm misrepresenting or missing a time he did it here, but what I'm doing is trying to hone in on the places in the iso analysis where BM makes a "ruling" on whether something midway did is town or scum indicative. Line break indicates talking about a new post in the ISO

some players are just like this. This isn't consistent however...

Out of nowhere, a bit of banter about being scum. Then an awkward segue "aaaaanyways..."

sounds like an informed minority[...]scummy answers to the 4 questions.

which I think is slightly scum-indicative, as town are often more liberal with their allegiances.

In the last game I played with Midway, this same approach was used, and the same conversation ensued about why it was done. Why ask the question if he already knows the answer? Just playing dumb.

Non-serious question misleadingly framed as a serious one.

Why do you scumread me?

nuff said.

Probably about the time scum might consider this at risk of looking conspicuous. Midway needs to make another vote and wants to make it sound serious so he looks like he is progressing the game. More marks for presentation than substance.

And it's all "slight scummy" "here's why this has scum motivations" "misleading" "informed minority" "playing dumb" "nuff said"

Only one place (at the very beginning) does he give any form of a benefit of the doubt, then immediately undercuts it

I guess I'm not seeing what the town reasoning is for painting someone as this scummy with this much confidence this early in the game, and on top of that, being willing to throw away this supposed conviction based off basically 1 post from someone else

This is why I'd still like to know from BM when the read on midway changed, if at all

I don't think there's anything new here, so my previous response probably covers it. The town reasoning is obvious - I'm scumhunting. Perhaps it would be helpful for you to consider what the scum reasoning would be? Specifically why it makes more sense for BM-scum than BM-town?

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Ready2rock

Was feeling cute, might unvote later.

Spoiler:

Probably not, though. The scummy entrance and strong associatives make this an excellent wagon.

Oh, also:

FoS: Mafia Goon

Blair, how much do you love me? on a scale of 1-10

I like these posts from redrock. Are you misgooned often?

Not fully usually, though it has happened. Mostly something I say in the first couple posts gets a big wagon formed on me early, and that's been as both town and scum

@IV: What's your read on BM and why? You say you disagree with my case, but you never explained.

Blair has Schrodinger's Case, where she’s presented this incredible genius read for the last page or two, but we haven't opened the box so you’ll never know if her case was ever actually there or not

In fairness, I called out your first post in this game too.

@IV: What's your read on BM and why? You say you disagree with my case, but you never explained.

I think this is consistent with town!BM tunneling to get reads on that slot, and not nearly as consistent with whatever scum motivation you didn't explain other than just mentioning it was "strange" and you didn't see town motivation

It kind of feels disingenuous that you are not able to see past this surface level while also not giving a clear reason WHY scum!BM is more motivated to do this, I'm sure you know that town can can tunnel with seemingly a lot of confidence and back off when they have gotten a better read on the slot. And I don't like that you don't like a lot of things by just casting shade and calling things weird or strange without much actual alignment analysis, this feels more scum than town motivated for reasons I've stated.

This is a very good pro-town assessment.

@IV: What's your read on BM and why? You say you disagree with my case, but you never explained.

I think this is consistent with town!BM tunneling to get reads on that slot, and not nearly as consistent with whatever scum motivation you didn't explain other than just mentioning it was "strange" and you didn't see town motivation

It kind of feels disingenuous that you are not able to see past this surface level while also not giving a clear reason WHY scum!BM is more motivated to do this, I'm sure you know that town can can tunnel with seemingly a lot of confidence and back off when they have gotten a better read on the slot. And I don't like that you don't like a lot of things by just casting shade and calling things weird or strange without much actual alignment analysis, this feels more scum than town motivated for reasons I've stated.

So it sounds like the TR of BM comes from believing
a) Tunneling is more likely to come from town than scum
b) Projecting overly confident reads is more likely to come from town than scum

I'm not certain that I fully buy either of those, for (b) especially I think it makes it easier to fall back on no matter what someone flips, now regardless on whether BM was right or wrong about midway he can point to interactions and say that he had a point and is trustworthy for town to listen to.

So in summary, I think scum!BM would be in a position to want to come out of the gate projecting scumhunting and #content, while also not really needing to commit to it by backing off the push at the first opportunity of something else.

Spoiler:

You obviously haven't seen me as scum much?

I'm flattered by this! Actually though, my scumgame is generally just lurking and doing the bare minimum, or if I'm really motivated, low-key pushing things but without putting myself in the spotlight.

Your hypothesis is possible, but I don't think it is objectively more likely than me just being genuinely scumhunting. Scum are generally less likely to want to attack a bunch of people simultaneously on Day 1, given how fickle and OMGUSy players can be - it's a bit kamikaze. And being inconsistent is generally something that scum try to avoid. because it's an easy thing for town to latch onto and build momentum against scum. Which is why I look at people lurking in the shadows, or at least avoiding making waves, and diehard consistency as good scumtells. Also people giving lots of opinions and actually reading are generally townie (you being a case in point), and people not wanting to give much away are generally scummy (i.e. Nosferatu).

In short, it feels like you're basically calling me out for playing in a strong pro-town way, and leaping to the conclusion that I am probably doing it as scum trying to look town.
On that basis, I suspect I could have done virtually anything else and also been scumread by you for it. If I had tunnel-visioned Midway and NOT "backed off" as you put it, you would have scumread me for being uncharitable. If, rather than abandoning a Midway push with some momentum to push a listless Nosferatu wagon, I'd moved to a hot wagon with a prospect of an elim, you'd have considered me opportunistic. If I hadn't had a back-and-forth with Midway at all, you'd have levelled the criticism that I wasn't scumhunting.

Maybe you could set out what you consider town-indicative behaviour, given you are more focussed on me than players who are actually scummy?

I kinda want to say that this is too careless to come from scum. Been wrong on that before, but I'll go with that for now

With Dunnstral, being lazy as scum is definitely something he would do. I don't think you should let someone free from suspicion just because they seem to be too scummy to be scum.

Oh for sure, that's what I meant when I said I've been wrong on it before, but I think on its own it's not enough for me to pin scummy motivation on, but I think it'll be interesting to see where it fits within a larger ISO as the game goes on. Worth noting and keeping an eye on

Baffled by this.

[Battle Mage]

Blair has Schrodinger's Case, where she’s presented this incredible genius read for the last page or two, but we haven't opened the box so you’ll never know if her case was ever actually there or not

hmm this is what I was thinking too. I'm not really feeling the r2r wagon so much.

i don’t wanna leave everyone hanging today so:

i’m asking you midway this moreso than anyone else but are you not feeling the r2r wagon because of the ~hidden read? i’m referencing out last game together again but we were in a situation where someone had a scumread that they didn’t out for several pages and it ended up being a towny player in the end. the way you wrote this kind of implies that your dislike of the r2r wagon is tied to blair’s lack of outing the case.

also since i’m quoting you: my vote wasn’t really hedging. i disagreed with a portion of the case against r2r and i would rather make that apparent. i can agree with something enough tho that its not the end of the world fmpov to have one thing that i’m at odds with

I like this - no real reason for scum to bandwagon whilst also undermining the case and making it less likely to result in a miselim.

boring is just my personality i am sorry (and i haven't been giving games as much attention as i should have/could have this week)

also ngl reading this game feels like i'm looking at a blob of "meh" with a few light trs (hi inno, hi blair) thrown in there which makes parsing through it all feel like my brain is turning into goo. i don't know what that means mafia is doing other than either blending in or just... not playing right now which means we're all kind of half-heartedly pointing fingers at each other hoping something sticks.

that sentiment implicates nosferatu, dunn and r2r if going off of like, strictly numbers. of them i like nosferatu the most bc of that dunn/blair thing. i think r2r isn't look the best but i vibed with some of their points regarding bm thus the unvote. i don't think it's foolproof like they are town 100% of the time but i can follow their logic without having to twist and reach for it so i don't wanna vote them rn

i think i just want to vote dunn and see like. anything.

VOTE: dunnstral

VOTE: ydrasse

High partner equity in Nosferatu-Dunnstral?

[Battle Mage]

Townblock assemble!

VOTE: Dunnstral

If he flips scum, Nosferatu tomorrow.

If he flips town, Ydrasse/Puppy tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

You have 1 read out of the whole game, which was that either/both of Blair/Dunn were scum...and you decided not to push either. So 2 questions:
Why would you not push your only scumreads, unless you don't actually want to elim scum?

If you don't want to push them, why do you not have some more reads/do something else?

lmao i had reads other than that, i just dont feel the need to share every single one as i form it

my blair/dunnstral read is associative so its meaningless to push them when neither flipped

dunnstral is probably flipping before endgame here anyway

ur leading questions suck

the problem is you haven't shared any reads you're willing to commit to, and I can't see why you'd be so evasive and non-committal as town.

[Battle Mage]

I'll try to keep the response to BM brief so we don't turn into walls responding to walls. I do like the responses so I will UNVOTE:

In short, you were wondering what I thought the scum motivation was, and given that I also think that midway is town, it felt like what you were doing was casting a ton of suspicion on someone (what I meant by having the scummy reads) while not actually wanting to fully follow through on it (backing off and reading as town now), so you could plant all the seeds of doubt and suspicion without actually having to commit to it. Hopefully that helps it make sense how those two things aren't in contradiction in my head.

I do also acknowledge that the there is totally town reason for the push, and your subsequent responses have made me feel better about that being the explanation, hence the unvote.

If there's something I missed feel free to let me know BM, but I'd rather not be here all night going point by point and I don't think anyone else would like that very much either

This is fine.

Blair: A Dunn wagon won't serve as any actual pressure, just FYI
Blair 1 page later: Oh a dunn wagon, time to hop on!

VOTE: Blair

This plus the way she was pushing the votes for me (which I pointed out earlier) makes me feel good about this

I don't agree with Blair's previous vote on you, but she did give an interesting and plausible rationale.

I think the answer to the above perceived discrepancy is that this Dunn wagon isn't simply about "pressure".

You should join the Dunn wagon with me.

[Battle Mage]

Dunnstral-scum seems pretty straightforward. I have 2 recently completed games with Dunnstral-town and in both he replaced in late on, but was nonetheless assertive and proactive. In 1 this was mostly just asking questions and pushing people to explain things, in the other it was trying to lead and corral the town. In this game, in which he has been present from the start (so didn't have anything to catch up on), he has been passive and half-hearted, not challenging anybody with any conviction.

If anyone fancies some light reading, Open 784 and Newbie 2016.

[Battle Mage]

can we get another votecount please?

[Battle Mage]

we can do ydrasse tomorrow dude, need more dunn votes

[Battle Mage]

how come the wagons i join keep dying? how come nobody has any questions for me?

BM's prolly town but his whole readslist is sus because he has me as scum when i'm obvtown

Like, look at him sitting on the sidelines hearing a terrible misreading of my posts and saying "YEAH, GET HER FOR THAT!" while sitting on his hands.

That post is atrocious.

agree with this, might be willing to hammer a dunn wagon

I think you're probably town now on the basis it's most likely to be Dunnstral and Nosferatu.

Given there is intent here, and we're 2 days away from deadline, Dunnstral you should claim.

[Battle Mage]

You have 1 read out of the whole game, which was that either/both of Blair/Dunn were scum...and you decided not to push either. So 2 questions:
Why would you not push your only scumreads, unless you don't actually want to elim scum?

If you don't want to push them, why do you not have some more reads/do something else?

lmao i had reads other than that, i just dont feel the need to share every single one as i form it

my blair/dunnstral read is associative so its meaningless to push them when neither flipped

dunnstral is probably flipping before endgame here anyway

ur leading questions suck

the problem is you haven't shared any reads you're willing to commit to, and I can't see why you'd be so evasive and non-committal as town.

when i have a read i want u to know abt i'll let u know
what is the town benefit of trying to make everyone sheep ur finicky reads

town play style is not a monolith and having reads and scumhunting are not universally town behavior
scum can have reads and scumhunt just as convincingly

If I die tonight, please elim this tomorrow for the love of God.

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE: to avoid quickhammer.

Dunnstral, claim.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: dunnstral

late bus?

[Battle Mage]

Blair reads off this game. It's a strange read but she's not as funny as I'm used to and her tone just feels weird.

I've been "off" due to factors outside of the scope of this game. This is deliberately vague to avoid skirting into "AtE" territory.

I'm not claiming that this is alignment indicative, but it is the real reason for any tonal change you're detecting in my posts in this game. If you believe I am the sort of person who would lie about my IRL circumstances for an in-game advantage, I can't stop you, but you're wasting your vote.

Hope you're ok.

I'm catching up now, ready to save the day!

[Battle Mage]

ok so our choices are a claimed vanilla or a claimed cop? Not sure either changes much, although I'll buy the Cop claim in the absence of a counter.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I think there is some value in unpicking how we went from Dunn at L-1 and a pretty much unanimous consensus elim, to a counterwagon putting Ydrasse at L-1 and outting her as cop.

But given we have 5 hours, and despite the number of vanity wagons nobody is voting Nosferatu, I think we should just focus on getting this over the line.

[Battle Mage]

Mod

can we please get a 12 hour extension or something?

[Battle Mage]

should we like, wait for everyone to post and see if there's a cc? how do ccs even work in normals?

If there's another normal cop, Ydrasse is most likely lying.

Or if there's like a full powered neapolitan or gunsmith, Ydrasse is also probably lying because that's just too much. Unless there's 3 scum but I'm not even considering that.

I agree, only likely to be 1 investigative.

[Battle Mage]

if you can't tell im not exactly jumping out of my chair to launch ydrasse but we need someone.

anyway with limited time my vote is on ydrasse we really need to launch this. if everyone wants dunn I'll get that slot too over a no launch for sure.

ugh I was scared you would PR claim bc your boringness does kind of make sense with the pr claim :/

what do we do guys

i feel like I was partly the trigger for switching wagons and I'm SORRY YDRASSE AND TOWN (assuming real claim which feels like it is)

Why do I still think Dunn is town but I will switch there if it's our next best option at this point

should we like, wait for everyone to post and see if there's a cc? how do ccs even work in normals?

DUDE I don't even get this...

[Battle Mage]

Mod

can we please get a 12 hour extension or something?

In my judgment, nothing has happened that would warrant an extension. (Note that I will almost never give an extension due to purely "in-game" events.)

I agree, but doesn't hurt to ask!

Also nice pagetop...

[Battle Mage]

i hope im doing the right thing

i am an investigative role

ah...I think you may as well fullclaim in that case then

[Battle Mage]

all i will say is if you look up my role in the mafiascum wiki it is classified as investigative.

this is too vague. Is your role complete enough that it makes hers implausible?

If not, I'm not down with elimming a claimed investigative on Day 1 - it will resolve itself hopefully if we can avoid too many more PR claims...

[Battle Mage]

It's fine to not specify the role. As long as it's powerful enough, it's fine.

So a Neapolitan or a gunsmith or any kind of regular cop.

If it's a watcher or a tracker, it's little more muddy/risky.

If it's a follower/voyeur, then they could fit together.

Basically this. If you're in that top line, and specifically not limited to number of shots etc, I'm with you.

[Battle Mage]

i can if you want me to. i just wanted to start with this but it looks like it's good enough to get people back to ydrasse.

i was thinking about cc'ing i just wasn't sure if this warranted a cc as I'm not sure if our roles can be in the same setup. I got two opinions and decided to claim since we have 5 hrs left

yes, confirm if you are in the top row per Mafia Goon's last post, and not limited on number of shots.

I'm mostly worried that we could end up miselimming Ydrasse and then you in successive days if we get this wrong.

[Battle Mage]

I am not a watcher or a tracker or a follower or a voyeur. I have no modifiers on my ability

Ok, works for me.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Battle Mage]

I'm ambivalent on a full claim - it doesn't really matter. I think InnocentVillager needs to be confident enough that Ydrasse can't possibly be town, so if Ydrasse flips town we can guarantee InnocentVillager as scum.

otherwise we're basically throwing the game.

[Battle Mage]

this could be a quick win!

[Battle Mage]

Sounds good.

See you in the next life, Ares.

Hold on a minute...I know who you are!

[Battle Mage]

if you're town i just threw the game sorry lol gg scum.

hey if you threw the game, then i'm obviously rubbing off on you

[Battle Mage]

read self sort as: leak even more info to inform my kills for the next couple nights

This is cute.

Let's imagine a world where one or both of them are town: What info would scum!Blair be waiting to "leak" before deciding to kill them? They're already outed PRs.

Ok Blair, yes, I am also a PR. Now for goodness sake, stop outting us all!

[Battle Mage]

Mini Normal 1919

Moderator:

ThinkBig

Current Update:

Game Over [Awaiting Archiving]

Player List:

1. SergTacos,
   Vanilla Townie
   , killed night 2
   
2. Klazam,
   Vanilla Townie
   , survived
   
3. Trivium,
   Vanilla Townie
   , lynched day 2
   
4. Umlaut
   replaced Boonskiies
   ,
   Town Odd-Night Cop
   , lynched day 4
   
5. TwoFace,
   Vanilla Townie
   , killed night 4
   
6. Empiricus,
   Vanilla Townie
   , survived
   
7. Mulch,
   Vanilla Townie
   , survived
   
8. Carcalilly,
   Mafia Odd-Night Roleblocker
   , killed night 1
   
9. Tchill13,
   Mafia Goon
   , lynched day 1
   
10. Fykus,
    Mafia Goon
    , lynched day 5
    
11. Branson,
    Vanilla Townie
    , lynched day 3
    
12. Vedith
    replaced shuffleplay
    ,
    Town Vigilante
    , killed night 1
    
13. Dunkerdoodles,
    Town Gunsmith
    , killed night 3

This was the only instance I found in the Normal Setups where a Town Gunsmith was in the same setup as a Town Modified Regular Cop. Thoughts?

Doesn't a gunsmith imply a Cop, (or possibly Vig) in a normal setup? Because part of the gimmick is that you can get false guilties.

How many games did you see with a town gunsmith without a cop? I'm going to have a look.

UNVOTE: for now.

[Battle Mage]

Research complete. Most mini normals with town gunsmith have no cop.

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Battle Mage]

I don't understand your workings but I agree with your answer.

[Battle Mage]

ah I think I misunderstood post 476 then - I thought you had claimed gunsmith, which is why I didn't understand why you'd be searching for a cop + a limited cop.

[Battle Mage]

if Ydrasse flips scum, I'm happy to consider you conftown irrespective of your claim, given you created and drove the wagon on her and counter-claimed her PR claim.

If you're both scum, you're a fking terrible partner

Nosferatu is my top pick, maybe still Dunn? would need to re-read latter part of today.

[Battle Mage]

can we get a hammer in here?

[Battle Mage]

If you're both scum, you're a fking terrible partner

LMAO

can you imagine a world Ydrasse and I are scum, I survive to LYLO and don't get hammered

even you winning single-handedly wouldn't compensate for ruthlessly and unnecessarily annihilating your newbie partner on Day 1.

[Battle Mage]

Mini Normal 1919

Moderator:

ThinkBig

Current Update:

Game Over [Awaiting Archiving]

Player List:

1. SergTacos,
   Vanilla Townie
   , killed night 2
   
2. Klazam,
   Vanilla Townie
   , survived
   
3. Trivium,
   Vanilla Townie
   , lynched day 2
   
4. Umlaut
   replaced Boonskiies
   ,
   Town Odd-Night Cop
   , lynched day 4
   
5. TwoFace,
   Vanilla Townie
   , killed night 4
   
6. Empiricus,
   Vanilla Townie
   , survived
   
7. Mulch,
   Vanilla Townie
   , survived
   
8. Carcalilly,
   Mafia Odd-Night Roleblocker
   , killed night 1
   
9. Tchill13,
   Mafia Goon
   , lynched day 1
   
10. Fykus,
    Mafia Goon
    , lynched day 5
    
11. Branson,
    Vanilla Townie
    , lynched day 3
    
12. Vedith
    replaced shuffleplay
    ,
    Town Vigilante
    , killed night 1
    
13. Dunkerdoodles,
    Town Gunsmith
    , killed night 3

This was the only instance I found in the Normal Setups where a Town Gunsmith was in the same setup as a Town Modified Regular Cop. Thoughts?

It's interesting that the Mod of this game was the Cop in that game.

[Battle Mage]

stop...

[Battle Mage]

Pagetop HAMMAH TIME

==============[ ]

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Nosferatu

V/LA for weekend

[Battle Mage]

sorry guys i havent got much time at the moment to do proper thinking. did look at Ydrasse ISO and still happy it's Nosferatu. He was lumped in the "could be scum" block for a bit of distancing, but the rationale for him not being an active target was particularly contrived.