Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[lilith2013]

(ﹷ _ ﹷ✿)

pedit: yikes alright then

[lilith2013]

sigh

[lilith2013]

fear of missing out on us being scum together and him not being scum with us so we can’t be the three musketeers etc

I don’t really know how to respond. It’s frustrating that I feel like I’m obvtown when town and you know exactly how my scumgame looks and I still can’t seem to figure out how to get myself to come across as town to you.

[lilith2013]

I think your scumgame is better than you give yourself credit for

I really don’t think so :/

[lilith2013]

@duck I’m townreading lavar

[lilith2013]

I guess Worst is town. They’re posting a lot.

you know me dude, I can't stand posting as scum.

[lilith2013]

I really don’t think so :/

I mean I sure as hell wasn't the reason we got read as obvtown in City.

I don't doubt that there are differences, and that they are evident to you. Playing mafia is really damn hard though and I certainly can't keep enough in my head at once to actually be able to thoroughly wade through your meta.

What is it that you think makes you so clearly town here? Because I think past games have indicated that you aren't consistently obvtown as town, at least not to me.

I mean the frustration extends across more than just this game, and it seems like you’re unwilling to read me by play which I suppose in retrospect can be taken as a compliment to my scumgame but also when I’m town is like hitting my head against a brick wall when I think we could/should have townblocked.

some reasons I think it’s clear I’m town:
- I think all my thoughts have been really straightforward
- the things I’m pushing are actual things and not made up/twisted to fit a narrative
- lack of emotional reaction to and/or discrediting of people scumreading me

[lilith2013]

Also I guess you can’t really see it but complete and total lack of anxiety is pretty indicative of my towngame

[lilith2013]

re: #3, everything about my argument with skitter and pushing sausaurus rex is top of mind

[lilith2013]

Also I guess you can’t really see it but complete and total lack of anxiety is pretty indicative of my towngame

Yeah that seems very much internal. I don't recall that coming out any of the times I've seen you as scum.

I think this manifests itself as triple-reading over all my posts before posting and I’d argue that my super-real-time posting is mutually exclusive with said anxiety

[lilith2013]

Again I guess you can’t really see it but I’m literally just typing as fast as I can and hitting submit. scum!me definitely takes a few minutes to figure shit out

[lilith2013]

Here’s posts that I feel best represent my “scum!me” reaction to games

viewtopic.php?p=11781943#p11781943
viewtopic.php?p=11791833#p11791833
viewtopic.php?p=11795848#p11795848
viewtopic.php?p=11889268#p11889268
viewtopic.php?p=11889294#p11889294
viewtopic.php?p=11889329#p11889329
viewtopic.php?p=11889412#p11889412
viewtopic.php?p=11899103#p11899103
viewtopic.php?p=11762731#p11762731
viewtopic.php?p=11767276#p11767276

[lilith2013]

I feel like these should probably also adequately address #1 but let me know if you want more

[lilith2013]

no :////// you should be townreading me by now

I almost was and then you had to throw out that garbage post

It seems quite out of character for you to be bossing someone's votes around, let alone bossing someone around to do something simplistic and one-dimensional that looks superficially pro-town but isn't actually helpful.

As a more direct response to this, I was frustrated that duck felt like he was skating by and content to not really do much in terms of pushing a wagon even though his read on nepenthes seemed fairly strong (and I think this should come across fairly clearly in my subsequent conversation with duck), and also

lowkey

highkey paranoid that he had said a bunch of things that should have made him townread me but then wasn’t committing to actually townreading me, and couldn’t think of any posts that I thought weren’t fakeable in comparison to miccro (which I still maintain), and had overnight talked myself into scumreading duck for those things. I don’t think I was intending to like actually strongarm him into moving his vote but rather just push him into doing something that was AI for me or explain himself more, which I feel like I got an adequate response to

[lilith2013]

I feel like these should probably also adequately address #1 but let me know if you want more

Seems fine, and I can clearly see the distinction being drawn, but I also don't really feel like a situation has been reached yet in this game where you might respond like you did in those games. Those posts mostly came when you were under pressure, yes?

sure

[lilith2013]

I’m not super convinced that nepenthes is scum

[lilith2013]

Is anyone actually townreading billy?

[lilith2013]

Why?

[lilith2013]

Why is nepenthes scummy?

[lilith2013]

billy’s wagon was almost entirely a silent one, I feel that it would have gotten a lot more traction (with more vocal/fleshed out scumreads) if he were town, I was the only one even trying to convince people to join it. I don’t see good reason to think he’s town.

[lilith2013]

billy’s wagon was almost entirely a silent one, I feel that it would have gotten a lot more traction (with more vocal/fleshed out scumreads) if he were town, I was the only one even trying to convince people to join it. I don’t see good reason to think he’s town.

I dont understand this like at all. You think the wagons on town are better supported than the wagons on scum?

Whenever I've been caught as scum, people had reasons. I've also probably not roled scum as much as my average on site would be.

I think if scum saw town pushing a wagon on town, they would hop on that wagon (probably in an opportunistic way) and try to push it through, which hasn’t happened

[lilith2013]

norweej probably looks the worst out of the billy wagon and he left it

[lilith2013]

Why is nepenthes scummy?

[lilith2013]

Declaring a thing doesn’t make it true, can you point out specific posts or trajectories that made you feel that she wasn’t game-solving?

[lilith2013]

I think if Nep is scum that not vote is probably unpartnery

duck can you explain this please

[lilith2013]

why is duck obvtown?

[lilith2013]

Aren’t I supposed to be the senpai in that case

[lilith2013]

Amn’t I*??? Wtf is english

[lilith2013]

Ergo, if it needs to be explained, which it does, then he isn't obvtown.

[lilith2013]

does it matter what poe means?

[lilith2013]

like how is that AI

[lilith2013]

then why argue about it?

[lilith2013]

billy’s wagon was almost entirely a silent one, I feel that it would have gotten a lot more traction (with more vocal/fleshed out scumreads) if he were town, I was the only one even trying to convince people to join it. I don’t see good reason to think he’s town.

I dont understand this like at all. You think the wagons on town are better supported than the wagons on scum?

Whenever I've been caught as scum, people had reasons. I've also probably not roled scum as much as my average on site would be.

I think if scum saw town pushing a wagon on town, they would hop on that wagon (probably in an opportunistic way) and try to push it through, which hasn’t happened

What about foureyed who hopped on but then when the momentum died hopped off?

Like you think scum opportunistically hop on then park or do they do what foureyed did?

ftr I have like a ~big brain guess~ about the gamestate that makes most if not all of four's play makes sense.

I feel like you're looking at this from the complete opposite perspective of me, like I'm thinking, "how would scum play around a town on town wagon vs a town on scum wagon?" and then comparing it to what happened. And you're looking at each individual's vote and working in the opposite direction, to like fit a narrative with four's play. I'm not sure if that's AI or I'm just being confbiased.

[lilith2013]

SS how did you feel about billy

[lilith2013]

I'm still intending to do like actual analysis of the wagons but I'm moving on Saturday and I should reeeeally be packing so... it's probably gonna be a few days before I get to that

[lilith2013]

I can't tell whether I should feel like mildly insulted that you've said all my logic is bad/weird

[lilith2013]

Lilith idk about a wagon being lukewarm as evidence for the target being scum
Like you have my wagon which saudade has been pushing since gamestart but it doesnt have a lot of support

Billys points look like a way of solving thats dif from yours rn

I was independently scumreading him before that.

also perhaps both of you are scum

[lilith2013]

these are all @ billy

tell me now

what do I get out of doing that?

better chance of me carrying you

I can carry myself just fine thanks

alright dont blame me if I just sort him by shooting him at night

are you claiming a shot?

Pretty transparent rolefish here. You worried?

I think it should be pretty clear why I was asking saudade the question I did. The shade from you here even though you're supposedly townreading me is really meh.

Like here’s Billy questioning Lavar about his vote and implying that Lavar’s vote was bad

VOTE: Something_Smart

There were multiple options, why this one?

And here’s Billy saying I’m scummy for thinking Lavar’s vote was bad

bad wagon is bad

VOTE: lavar

This pings me. Like a) why is the wagon bad; b)is this even the only wagon at this point? And if it isn't, why are the other wagons good?

I enjoy the fact that you're questioning both the wagon itself and me saying the wagon is bad

Its how I get into a game. You threw out a spicey take, so I engaged you on your take while I engaged with the wagon.

After I voted him, he changed his mind to say he was townreading me by saying he liked that I doubled down on my Lavar vote, but that contradicts him saying it was scummy for me to question Lavar’s vote originally (and I think is an attempt to get me to back off). Also note he calls it a “spicy take” the second time he talks about it (which is, again, after I voted him).

How could my saying Lavar’s vote was bad ping him while he simultaneously agreed with it? How does asking me whether this is the only wagon and whether the other wagons were good help him sort me? What is my answer to that (which is going to be factual regardless of alignment) going to say about me that is AI and that he couldn’t have read himself on the page he was reading?

I also just hugely dislike this fencesitty positioning of “oh I’m engaging with both you and the wagon” and somehow managing to scumread both sides of it

I think i now understand what's going on. I wasn't scumreading you or even him I think at the time I made that post. I dont think i got to scumreading him until the i am town response when he started feeling pressure. As for you, I dont think i ever scumread you. Yeah, the objective fact that there was more than one wagon doesn't help me sort you, but your response, that you called out the false dichotomy that I had set up did help me. Also the more sorting question of asking why the wagon was bad also helped. It let me know you are also looking for reasons and have an innate hesitation towards naked votes. But if you think my questions mean I'm scumreading people then I think I get why you hated this post so much.

1) the use of the word "ping" in regards to my post implies a scummy feeling
2) I don't think this post really explained what you were looking for that would be AI by asking me those initial questions. Wouldn't scum also dislike naked votes, because they can't defend them seriously without the vote being explained? Couldn't scum also call out false dichotomies (and would perhaps even be more motivated to point out flaws in your argument)?
3) Why did you pick this particular wagon to question, and not, say, saudade pushing IV or worst pushing saudade?

I guess Worst is town. They’re posting a lot.

This is not a good way to read the foul. He played a newbie scumgame with me and he hyperposted and I think I only caught him when he claimed a pr and I was a mason.

Do you disagree with other people's TR's of Worst?

At this point I dont see a reason not to see him as town, and his past couple of posts have been solid, in particular his post about lavar. So no, I just wanted to point out that his activity isn't a great tell.

can you explain what you liked about duck's post about lavar? Do you agree with it? Why did you like it?

billy’s wagon was almost entirely a silent one, I feel that it would have gotten a lot more traction (with more vocal/fleshed out scumreads) if he were town, I was the only one even trying to convince people to join it. I don’t see good reason to think he’s town.

I dont understand this like at all. You think the wagons on town are better supported than the wagons on scum?

Whenever I've been caught as scum, people had reasons. I've also probably not roled scum as much as my average on site would be.

btw as I've said, I already explained my scumread and it's independent of the wagon activity, I also happen to think that the wagon activity supports my read, but I wouldn't be using the wagon alone.

[lilith2013]

things that ping me about billy's read on duck:
billy townreading duck for a post about duck townreading lavar while billy is scumreading lavar - did billy's read on lavar change? unclear why billy is townreading duck for that post
billy townreading duck while potentially trying to shut down other people's townreads on duck

[lilith2013]

also the part where Billy is talking about [redacted] is like arguing whether Nepenthes' behavior constitutes a towntell, but doesn't actually comment on whether he thinks Nepenthes is scummy

[lilith2013]

The last girl I liked has told I am emotionally available, what does that mean?

was "emotionally available" a positive or negative comment?

[lilith2013]

from context it sounds like it should be negative, but "too emotionally available" is not a complaint I expected

[lilith2013]

no it was a positive one, see you cant scumhunt

I never said I could

now vote nep please

I'm willing to vote her but I'd still rather stay on the billy wagon

she didnt say TOO emotionally available either, wtf

lilith what kind of freudian slips are you giving away here

idk you tell me, I'm not a psychologist

[lilith2013]

tell me first and then I might vote nepenthes

[lilith2013]

Town are SS, Saudade, lilith, iv (conditional needs more goodposting)
Leantown are Lavar and Four but this tiers kinda meaningless

tw goes in the corner and the rest id vote
Billy idk. i wish i thought he was scum

where did the townread on ss come from?

yes, yes he is

???

[lilith2013]

tell me first and then I might vote nepenthes

it's because you think you are too emotionally available

this isn’t as exciting as I thought it would be

[lilith2013]

might

vote

[lilith2013]

saudade are you actually scumreading norweej

[lilith2013]

hating me =/= hating multitabbing but I get the point

[lilith2013]

I dont understand the reason for asking him to claim whether he has a shot. Call me dumb but thats an obvious rolefish and a town vig is pretty powerful.

I was calling saudade's bluff on SS if I were rolefishing I would be less blatant about it...

In your next section I think thats a weird point. Like player B explaining a tr of player A who I SR with solid logic and like genuineness, like why would that be confusing to you. If anything, this pings me more than anything else, because its like youre worried about being consistent. Like more worried about being perceived as consistent than figuring the game out. Like I can townread people that townread people I scumread. Why would the fact that I've got a different read of the target of one of their well explaijed reads matter? Like I found 1065 a post that I think scum would have difficulty faking. I think he's trying to figure out whether Lavar would approach a consensus townread that way in terms of pushing back on him on his choice of wagon. So does it make me lock Lavar town? No, but ive already thought that Four was of more interest for me to push and its making me reconsider Lavar, but he's not making it easy by not leaving a whole hell of alot of thoughts out, and i think a flip could potentially shed light on that.

I'd think that someone who you think is town, who is using "solid logic," would also start to make you question your read on the person they are townreading.

Aren't you voting lavar currently?

[lilith2013]

Threatening to shoot SS to get me to talk about him?

[lilith2013]

Okay seriously don’t

[lilith2013]

Is saudade actually scumreading nor??

[lilith2013]

I already told you I don’t read SS by play so

[lilith2013]

@duck

I'm willing to vote her but I'd still rather stay on the billy wagon

[lilith2013]

why I'm not strongly scumreading her enough to leave billy wagon, or why I'm willing to vote?

[lilith2013]

wait are you serious?

[lilith2013]

I once saw an obama meme that was his "bitch, what" face and I have never been able to find it since then and I really need that meme right now

[lilith2013]

are you actually saying that this whole time you were just pretending to scumread nepenthes? why?

[lilith2013]

ftr I don't agree entirely with saudade's reasons for scumreading her but I also haven't found any strong reasons to townread her, so that's me being "willing" to vote

also my lack of read either way on her is probably scum-indicative because like, scum are usually in the nullreads or something like that?

[lilith2013]

also also, I have the distinct feeling that multiple people in this playerlist are trying to pocket me and she's one of them (although I suppose she did blatantly ask me how to buddy me, but I feel to some extent she has been buddying me subtly since then)

[lilith2013]

sorry I don’t mean to :/ I just have so many thoughts and words and it ends up spilling out into the thread

[lilith2013]

that’s WORSE why would you do that to me

[lilith2013]

duck do you now have any non-gut reasons for scumreading nepenthes that you can explain?

[lilith2013]

Okay

[lilith2013]

I think if Nep is scum that not vote is probably unpartnery

duck can you explain this please

[lilith2013]

I don’t really feel like the pressure on nepenthes has decreased or was decreasing at that time

[lilith2013]

what claim? I can’t find anything in his iso that I can see fitting this description

[lilith2013]

I’m no less confused than I was before.

what read then?

[lilith2013]

could you.. go back through his ISO and look? it isn't very long

[lilith2013]

duck, why did you ask me about nepenthes last night?

[lilith2013]

I think the reasons here seem a little surface/forced but maybe that's just because I disagree? But I also like the whole progression and the timestamps surrounding them, it really does seem like he's taking time to reread and reevaluate real time, they're about 10 minutes apart

this, for example, is making my brain tingly

tingly = good or bad?

i'm not awake enough to decide but i think it factors into me reevaluating nep

Also did you end up reevaluating your nepenthes read?

[lilith2013]

This makes me wonder whether anyone in this game is currently REALLY pushing for someone.
During this catchup, it has felt more like

people are questioning other peoples pushes more than pushing for their own.

And tbf, I don't think that's anything out of the ordinary.

I didn’t really think duck had been doing this either though.

Also can you explain more what you mean about the SS/billy interactions? I wasn’t really paying attention to those posts so I’m curious to know what you saw.

[lilith2013]

Also also, the conclusion I came to on lavar/foureyes is that they’re both town.

[lilith2013]

I did ask you why duck is obvtown

idk I don’t feel like you’ve really done things that I can question

[lilith2013]

lavar not townreading foureyes means my big brain guess is dead.

[lilith2013]

@una:

Yes, I’m very paranoid of scum!duck, we just finished a game where literally no one was considering that he could be scum at lylo and he was. There are some small differences here that have me leaning town, but I’m very aware that he’s a good scumplayer and so “fakeability” has been at the back of my mind for him all game

re: the ss stuff, I think I’ve been putting forth enough effort elsewhere that he/others should still be able to read me, it’s not like my sole focus this game has been whining about ss not being able to read me.

[lilith2013]

worth noting that i very much felt like nep was standing behind lilith during tis push/engagement

please see reference to nepenthes subtly buddying me

[lilith2013]

can't remember, must have seemed important at the time. i'm trying to sort nepenthes. i'm wondering if people are seeing what i'm seeing. i am actively aware that i'm wondering whether you feel pocketed by her. which part makes you curious?

I’m just like, trying to understand what your motivations and intentions are, in regards to both me and nepenthes

[lilith2013]

activity levels

~equal or higher as scum

content

what content???

hrmmmmmmmmm

[lilith2013]

worth noting that i very much felt like nep was standing behind lilith during tis push/engagement

please see reference to nepenthes subtly buddying me

I resent the adverb subtly

Okay there’s definitely a blatant element about it, but I also feel like behind the blatant buddying there’s also a bit of more subtle buddying which I think could be scum-motivated.

[lilith2013]

lilith admit that you are wrong on your billy read and just vote nep

just fyi I’m maybe the most stubborn person in the world, and the more you tell me to do something, the less I want to do it!

[lilith2013]

Okay there’s definitely a blatant element about it, but I also feel like behind the blatant buddying there’s also a bit of more subtle buddying which I think could be scum-motivated.

Okay this would be pretty slick though right I want hypothetical props saudade is hurting my feelings

definite props if true

[lilith2013]

I’m not sure how to read Lilith, the worst, and something smart. I would pick something smart to be the towniest because he doesn’t seem very “stiff”.

Is that an SS meta read or something else bc lilith and tw dont look stiff either

this kinda reminded me to say something: i agree ss is the towniest in that trio

boooooo I’m towny too

[lilith2013]

can't remember, must have seemed important at the time. i'm trying to sort nepenthes. i'm wondering if people are seeing what i'm seeing. i am actively aware that i'm wondering whether you feel pocketed by her. which part makes you curious?

I’m just like, trying to understand what your motivations and intentions are, in regards to both me and nepenthes

respect and friendship `-`
and getting your alignments correctly

was asking me about nepenthes more about me or nepenthes?

[lilith2013]

please also see my posts about nepenthes blatantly (and possibly also subtly) buddying me

[lilith2013]

duck how are you reading norweej right now?

[lilith2013]

can't remember, must have seemed important at the time. i'm trying to sort nepenthes. i'm wondering if people are seeing what i'm seeing. i am actively aware that i'm wondering whether you feel pocketed by her. which part makes you curious?

I’m just like, trying to understand what your motivations and intentions are, in regards to both me and nepenthes

respect and friendship `-`
and getting your alignments correctly

was asking me about nepenthes more about me or nepenthes?

38% u 62% nep but i can't like, vividly remember

that’s a very specific percentage.

Did my answer help at all? /what was your reaction to what I said?

[lilith2013]

duck how are you reading norweej right now?

somewhere eerily close to null

can I tell you a secret

maybe the question should really be,

should

I tell you a secret but then it won’t really be a secret because everyone will know and I can never tell whether I’m supposed to hold my cards close to my chest so I can see how other people react to things and let my secret inform my reads on those people too, or just word-vomit everything into the thread

[lilith2013]

I wanna be IC this game so i can just

push

my reads as straight facts without having to prove nothing. That would be chill.

I am pretty sure it’s a synonym for “present” in this case, as opposed to “wagon” - ie “presenting my reads as facts”

[lilith2013]

I already have a read on you go away please, like 2 different people felt the need to post for norwegian when im already struggling to get him to post

norweej has been engaging fine with other people, so maybe it’s your overblown aggression towards him that makes him clam up

[lilith2013]

the way to get people to post more to your liking is not to yell at them that they’re bad

[lilith2013]

can't remember, must have seemed important at the time. i'm trying to sort nepenthes. i'm wondering if people are seeing what i'm seeing. i am actively aware that i'm wondering whether you feel pocketed by her. which part makes you curious?

I’m just like, trying to understand what your motivations and intentions are, in regards to both me and nepenthes

respect and friendship `-`
and getting your alignments correctly

was asking me about nepenthes more about me or nepenthes?

38% u 62% nep but i can't like, vividly remember

that’s a very specific percentage.

Did my answer help at all? /what was your reaction to what I said?

i feel slightly warmer about u / i can't remember exactly what posts you're talking about tho

@duck

Spoiler: relevant posts quoted

ftr I don't agree entirely with saudade's reasons for scumreading her but I also haven't found any strong reasons to townread her, so that's me being "willing" to vote

also my lack of read either way on her is probably scum-indicative because like, scum are usually in the nullreads or something like that?

also also, I have the distinct feeling that multiple people in this playerlist are trying to pocket me and she's one of them (although I suppose she did blatantly ask me how to buddy me, but I feel to some extent she has been buddying me subtly since then)

[lilith2013]

norweej has been engaging fine with other people, so maybe it’s your overblown aggression towards him that makes him clam up

I cant believe lilith cares more about norwees feelings than mine </3

I gave you hypothetical props!

but also my post applies to everyone who saudade yelled at

[lilith2013]

I think this a very one-dimensional way of looking at scumplay..?

What do you think scum would be trying to do in this game?

I’m self-admittedly pretty bad at scumhunting so tips are always welcome.

[lilith2013]

Duck do you agree with lilith that norwegian has interacted with other players quite well and did good posting recently?

I’m not arguing that his posting is “good.” But it certainly won’t help his posts get any better if someone is constantly yelling at him that his posts are bad.

[lilith2013]

like if you feel like norweej has done scummy things, go ahead and argue why you think those things are scummy. atm it seems like you’re harping more on his style than his actions though.

[lilith2013]

are you actually trying to make it seem like I’m the bad guy here?

[lilith2013]

I don't tell you how to play so why do you think you should tell me how I play?
do you have an amazing town win rate or something?

You’re certainly telling other people how to play

[lilith2013]

VOTE: norwegian

[lilith2013]

- never once said they were “good”
- never said I was townreading him

[lilith2013]

I believe I put it into words there as well.
I couldn't even find anything concrete to quote within those few pages, but it still felt like S_S and Liverpool were talking AI things about the game.
Yet it didn't feel like it lead anywhere, and I learned nothing from it.
I'll have to return to that with a fresh set of eyes as well. But probably not today.

I went back and reread, and my thought is that this was pretty characteristic of how I feel about Billy overall. I think your characterization is spot on, and that his posts feel like they are talking about AI things but don’t really have any substance of progression behind them (although I disagree that this applies to both of them). My read on SS is entirely separate though.

[lilith2013]

I really like this post from lilith?

Why do you like it?

[lilith2013]

duck i’m sad you didn’t tell me if you wanted to hear my secret

[lilith2013]

I enjoy the fact you thought of bussing as well

My point was less that bussing was possible (it sure is) and more that that being S -> T was unlikely.

Why is s>t unlikely?

[lilith2013]

duck i’m sad you didn’t tell me if you wanted to hear my secret

oops
I didn't see the question
yes please I love secrets

norweej is the second person I think is buddying me

[lilith2013]

Okay cool (ftr I’m not like trying to argue or question, I’m just genuinely lost in the world of mafia)

[lilith2013]

norweej’s posts about me feel like a little bit too denigrating, like most of his reasons for townreading me have amounted to “this is too stupid of a reason for her to be presenting at as scum.” Which I feel like is supposed to simultaneously make me pleased he’s townreading me while also making me feel like I should want to try to win his respect so he stops saying that kind of thing

[lilith2013]

and in the process theoretically making me so worried that he thinks my logic is bad that I forget about trying to read him when he says those things about me

[lilith2013]

that is a word that came to mind (although I wasn’t sure if it applied to mafia)

[lilith2013]

... that's... that's how he always sounds

[lilith2013]

can I get like a sanity check on the norweej thing? like am I just crazy or is that actually possibly what's happening

[lilith2013]

... that's... that's how he always sounds

Oof is this your belated revenge for "you just described lilith's towngame"

four years in the making

[lilith2013]

that wasn't a yes or no question

[lilith2013]

norweej’s posts about me feel like a little bit too denigrating, like most of his reasons for townreading me have amounted to “this is too stupid of a reason for her to be presenting at as scum.” Which I feel like is supposed to simultaneously make me pleased he’s townreading me while also making me feel like I should want to try to win his respect so he stops saying that kind of thing

and in the process theoretically making me so worried that he thinks my logic is bad that I forget about trying to read him when he says those things about me

[lilith2013]

I dont think norwee is actually trying to manipulate that way becaude negging is pretty fucked up
I think the insulting your posts while TRing them is a symptom of norwee reading them but knowing that theyre solving and that theyre acceptable to tr without caring too much about unraveling the confent bc he doesnt need to worry about reading you or your arguments

this makes sense I think

[lilith2013]

yeah I'm pretty happy with my vote

[lilith2013]

yeah I'm pretty happy with my vote

You shouldn't be.
Why do you think Nep is townier than me?

you’re both pretty much nullscum for me, I just dislike her buddying me less

norweej’s posts about me feel like a little bit too denigrating, like most of his reasons for townreading me have amounted to “this is too stupid of a reason for her to be presenting at as scum.” Which I feel like is supposed to simultaneously make me pleased he’s townreading me while also making me feel like I should want to try to win his respect so he stops saying that kind of thing

Lmao.
This is why your mindset is cute.
Naw, i'm just casually seeing your town thought process.
You're too edgy and paranoid to be scum.

this is exactly the kind of post I’m referring to...

[lilith2013]

I like una for town I think

[lilith2013]

I'm feeling pretty garbage so I'm probably logging off soon.

- how much of this game have you read?
- why me/duck/iv specifically?

[lilith2013]

Sirius, I tried to actually engage you when you asked for help and you’re just gonna ignore me and do this shit?

[lilith2013]

Is a policy elim really going to help us? If so, I’ll vote sirius

[lilith2013]

You would rather policy elim notmafia over sirius?

[lilith2013]

I changed my mind, please vote norweej

[lilith2013]

VOTE: norwegian if I’m not already on it

[lilith2013]

no he’s doing that thing again where he patronizes me

[lilith2013]

You would rather policy elim notmafia over sirius?

No, i'd rather we vote Nepenthes over both of them.

What was this then?

VOTE: Not_Mafia
Policy lynch.

[lilith2013]

Isn’t it a bit incongruous that you resist sirius’ elimination so much even though his play

in this game

has been horrible, but you haven’t even seen notmafia in the game yet and you’re more than happy to policy elim him?

Why are you scumreading nepenthes again?

[lilith2013]

I think that's E-1 on sirius

[lilith2013]

nope pooky voted elsewhere, that's E-2.

[lilith2013]

VOTE: sirius

is it even worth asking for a claim?

before the day ends:
- I'm almost positive nepenthes vs norweej is not tvt, I'm also not eliminating the possibility of svs.
- SS is locktown for me
- I still feel decently about pooky/notmafia/worst/una slots as town
- scumreads are billy/norwee/nepenthes
- everyone else is kinda in my "meh" area.

[lilith2013]

this is E-1 btw ^

[lilith2013]

ss do you think we should eliminate sirius or nepenthes or norweej?

[lilith2013]

How is foureyes’ position scummy?

[lilith2013]

ss do you think we should eliminate sirius or nepenthes or norweej?

Yes.

sighhhhhhhhhhhh

[lilith2013]

Fine. VOTE: norwegian

[lilith2013]

The j is the sound made when abbreviating your name to two syllables. I don’t like norwee.

[lilith2013]

billy, nepenthes, and sirius not mentioned coincidence???

[lilith2013]

nvm ignore me, foureyes/zombie/una also not mentioned. I was hoping that would just be the solve lmao

[lilith2013]

the pushes on sirius are “stop being a ding dong and post” and sirius replying “no i h8 u” and people policy voting him

[lilith2013]

I’m not townreading nepenthes, but you have to admit it kind of sucks to have people voteparking you with little explanation since like page 5

[lilith2013]

I’m also not opposed to a nepenthes wagon but I just want to be contrary so I’m voting norweej instead

[lilith2013]

I got mixed up on rep ins NM is lavar so NMs town

who did you think NM was?

[lilith2013]

But... you mentioned iv too:

iv NM and tw are on probation

[lilith2013]

actual read reasons from ss??? i'm shook

[lilith2013]

did you give townread reasons for anyone?

[lilith2013]

ss are you still scumread/leaning me

[lilith2013]

gahhh

did you read my longer response to you calling my post garbage?

[lilith2013]

I’m trying not to be annoying about it but your read on me is probably one of the more important things to me in this game, just like irrespective of game things

[lilith2013]

sighhhhhh

[lilith2013]

VOTE: norwegian if I’m not already on it

why did you feel strongly compelled to revote here?

I didn’t like that he was so adamantly against policy elim on sirius after sirius already showed himself to be a ding dong in this game but wanted to policy elim notmafia without seeing notmafia’s play in this game

[lilith2013]

sighhhhhh

[lilith2013]

1-2 town

What does this mean?

[lilith2013]

I much prefer this

[lilith2013]

why does nepenthes voting sirius make you uncomfortable?

[lilith2013]

VOTE: norwegian if I’m not already on it

why did you feel strongly compelled to revote here?

I didn’t like that he was so adamantly against policy elim on sirius after sirius already showed himself to be a ding dong in this game but wanted to policy elim notmafia without seeing notmafia’s play in this game

does that look bad or is it scummy?

I suppose it just looks bad as opposed to actively being scummy. But I still haven’t found a reason to change my read on him.

[lilith2013]

I suppose it just looks bad as opposed to actively being scummy. But I still haven’t found a reason to change my read on him.

can you sell me on the wagon pls?

Which wagon? Norweej?

[lilith2013]

@duck

um okay, I think I’m mostly on the same page as you where I read norweej’s posts and half the time I’m just like “meh” and half the time I’m like “???” and 100% of the time I’m at a loss for how to engage with him which I think is independently a bad sign; I haven’t seen anything significantly towny nor have I seen anything outrageously scummy which also puts him at “eerily close to null” for me, and if I go by micro 960 reads and also what seems to be general advice, scum are more likely to be in the nullreads than in the strong townreads or strong scumreads. Now this also applies to nepenthes for me in that I’m not strongly reading her in either direction; but norweej’s posts about me and his intentions towards me seem generally shadier than nepenthes blatantly asking me if she can buddy me

[lilith2013]

i think the Sirius wagon is very reasonable and I am totally fine with it

I hate you:)

i love eating roasted duck
scum = SS/Sausade?

omfg

[lilith2013]

scum are more likely to be in the nullreads than in the strong townreads or strong scumreads

but doesn’t this make you want to lean away from Nep? you are arguing for their general perception by the plist vs your own read of her

I don’t understand what you’re saying

[lilith2013]

i think the Sirius wagon is very reasonable and I am totally fine with it

I hate you:)

i love eating roasted duck
scum = SS/Sausade?

I’m making a plea to you here to actually try to be involved in this game. If you want to play, I’m happy to help you get more engaged. If you keep doing this I will be voting you though.

[lilith2013]

@IV I don’t think what you’re saying is related to what I’m saying that much, but I do kind of agree that everyone seems to be scumreading nepenthes so I don’t really think she’s scum

[lilith2013]

Oh I see, you’re saying that if scum are in the nullreads then the scumreads should be more likely to be town. I am mostly talking about my personal reads here but yeah that’s along the same lines of what I’m saying.

[lilith2013]

Sometimes scumreads are just scum though

[lilith2013]

@duck do you.... do you agree with me or was that you trying to read me better?

[lilith2013]

scum = SS/Sausade?

if these two are both scum i will actually consider eating duck postgame.

Is it like, such a horrible take that it must come from town? Or is it such an obviously horrible take that scum!sirius attempts to make us think it’s such a horrible take that it must come from town?

[lilith2013]

Only person here who I actually have played with before is IV. They should be good.

IV just told me he willingly lynched a neutral slot in a previous game.
He doesn’t seem that good.

[redacted information I can talk about later]

IV, do you have any insight into what this could mean? I’m assuming it’s related to 2022 but what do you think sirius was trying to say here?

[lilith2013]

scum = SS/Sausade?

if these two are both scum i will actually consider eating duck postgame.

Is it like, such a horrible take that it must come from town? Or is it such an obviously horrible take that scum!sirius attempts to make us think it’s such a horrible take that it must come from town?

oh.. is it a real thought?

did you think it wasn’t?

[lilith2013]

Here’s the thing about sirius’ “scumread” on ss/saudade: it’s so obviously bad that I think we’re supposed to assume he hasn’t been following the game. But he clearly knew enough to specifically call out me and duck for help (supposedly because he thinks we are town) - and note that I’ve never played any games with him and I don’t think duck has either, so it’s not a “calling to people he already knows” thing. This makes me think he knows something about the gamestate, enough to know that worst/I are generally townread, but wants to make it seem like he knows so little about the game that he’s scumreading ss and saudade.

[lilith2013]

SS is a wide townread? That’s certainly news, but I haven’t read the whole thread lol

I haven’t really noticed the slots posting which is a small scumlean for me with their activity which I want to revisit? but whatever we should focus on the real wagon candidates for today

“the slots” = SS?

I wouldn’t say he’s a universal townread but he’s definitely more townread than like, foureyes or norweej.

[lilith2013]

UNVOTE: nep

Why?

[lilith2013]

Oh I am fucking blind lmao

[lilith2013]

why vote four?

[lilith2013]

Can we please never talk about that game again

[lilith2013]

Since with a hard pr claim I'm not drawing the night lol with my heavy cringing, I'll just out myself.

Informed townie N_M, and previously Lavar, is town. That's my usefulness. Elim me to make N_M IC, I guess.

Oh this meshes pretty well with my previous ~big brain guess~

[lilith2013]

I think this a very one-dimensional way of looking at scumplay..?

What do you think scum would be trying to do in this game?

I’m self-admittedly pretty bad at scumhunting so tips are always welcome.

Ok, this pings me. This is the first sense of humility I've seen from you wrt your reads. Like you were so locked onto me early on that you read the lack of movement on my wagon as scumindicative and youve been on me based on what I'm pretty sure is my playstyle. So if you don't think you're that good at scumhunting, why are you so confident on me?

sometimes I’m confident on things when I have no reason to be? like, idk, Dunning-Krueger?

[lilith2013]

also like, just because I’m not spewing uncertainty about my reads all the time in my posts doesn’t mean it’s not happening in my head before I write the post

[lilith2013]

hnerejjehfjejfnnmrmmrmmmrmmmmmm
VOTE: nor

hello and welcome to the good place

[lilith2013]

I even made an intentional typo before where I said IT

I thought your crumb was when you said “made a typographical error” ngl

[lilith2013]

hnerejjehfjejfnnmrmmrmmmrmmmmmm
VOTE: nor

hello and welcome to the good place

THIS IS THE BAD PLACE. CALLING IT NOW.

what if I told you I was vicky in a michael suit

[lilith2013]

why are you guys voting norweej all of a sudden

[lilith2013]

why is pooky ://///

[lilith2013]

you are far too cool to be vicky in a michael suit <3

<3

[lilith2013]

I voted norweej first >:(

[lilith2013]

I've been crumbing a PR quite hard to try to draw the Night Kill and IC Lavar slot, but the plan fails with a hard Pr claim

informed generally doesn't flip with its info

pedit: don't ride around in my pocket, i'm scum irl

yeah but he crumbed lavar-town hella hard so it would be pretty obvious who he was informed about once he flipped

[lilith2013]

I feel pretty decently about duck/iv/pooky/nm/four/una/ss/nep town, leaving just: sirius, billy, norweej, zombie as my POE. I feel good about that tbh

[lilith2013]

@duck if it helps, I reviewed a couple other SS games to check my read and I still feel okay about my ability to read him

[lilith2013]

@duck if it helps, I reviewed a couple other SS games to check my read and I still feel okay about my ability to read him

@duck also relevant:

Sometimes I have extreme bouts of self-doubt in my ability to read SS but then I’m like, no I should believe in myself more

[lilith2013]

I agree it was obvious, I’m just arguing with duck who says it’s not obvious

[lilith2013]

Why are you scumreading SS?

[lilith2013]

This gave me a good chortle.

Oh lol, I didn't notice that. Lilith SK confirmed.

sighhhhhh

[lilith2013]

I’m still sad you’re not townreading me and I didn’t realize that was a joke

[lilith2013]

okay sue me I didn’t google for spelling

[lilith2013]

Why are you so on edge about this?

You weren't freaking out about my read on you in Zoey mafia.

correction, I was pretending not to be freaking out about it (also had way less time to be freaking out about it; as a percentage of my posts I think it’s probably the same amount of time spent worrying about it?)

[lilith2013]

Like I said, I’m trying not to be annoying about it, so, sorry if this is getting annoying. I’m gonna take a break for a bit.

[lilith2013]

these are all me worrying about your read on me:

viewtopic.php?p=11827727#p11827727
viewtopic.php?p=11827743#p11827743
viewtopic.php?p=11827769#p11827769

like I've said, the frustration is now extending across multiple games, I think it gets more frustrating each time, I also don't feel like I've even spent that much time dwelling on it this game relative to time I've spent talking about other people. I'm attempting to drop it because I know it doesn't help but sometimes my frustration comes through.

[lilith2013]

how earnest/openminded do you two feel your interactions with each other have been?

my read on him hasn't changed, if that's what you're asking.

What exactly is frustrating about it? Didn't you have this experience when you were playing way back when? Your town game was super distinctive, but you still got pushed even by people who knew you well.

it's frustrating because I feel like you should know me well enough and know how I think as scum well enough to tell that this isn't my scumgame, and part of me is disappointed that I came back to the site and you couldn't immediately read me the way you did before. I know it's not very logical to be upset about it but I am.

[lilith2013]

this is perhaps a bit on the personal side for a mafia thread.

Spoiler:

in my head I pictured this magical friendship where we vibe so hard with each other and townblock and kick scumbutts' butts. reality falls short when you don't vibe back and it ruins the image I had of magical vibey friendship, therefore I'm sad.

[lilith2013]

But it might just as well be lilith or BuDucky who followed me there but also jumped off to push for slots that both claimed PR.

I followed you onto sirius, yes, but the only other person I’ve voted since is norweej, so I don’t understand why you’re lumping me in with duck and ss.

If there’s scum in the three of us, it’s duck, which I’ve been paranoid about allllll along

[lilith2013]

yeah BP’s posting is still kinda awkward