Mini Normal 2166 | Dog Show Champions | Game Over

[Egix96]

VOTE: UnaBomba

We meet again...

[Egix96]

yall are tryin too hard too early zzzzzzzzz

Tbf, I would much rather have that than have the game be boring.

[Egix96]

Ok, NOW I feel like tris should be voted. ^^

VOTE: tris

Why though? I'm actually getting town feels from 89 .

[Egix96]

Well, we were both scum in that game, and you were in a hydra. I pushed posts made by you and your hydra partner and I got heated until I realized the posts were yours

oh, that game. I vaguely remember you being under a decent amount of suspicion and me, not so much. So you distanced from our slot as either a game strategy or as an attempt to make yourself look better. I also remember you as scum in another game that brought that game (coalition) as some form of proof for why you always find me scummy or something.

We’re going to 1v1, let’s get it out of the way now

I would have agreed with
that until that coalition game

So you are basically arguing the same thing here, no? Did you vote me so when I called bullshit on you you could argue that I'm "OMGUS" scum reading you? b/c that's what it sorta seems like.

My memory is I pushed you to try to look townier but it ended up being a super helpful distancing play because everyone ended up thinking I wouldn't do that sort of tunnel to a scumbuddy. And in that other game (the 40p D&D theme game) I did use it as a way to try to deflect your read on me, but here I just felt like making a joke about it. I think the fact you're picking up these sorts of things is actually a point in favor of you being town rn.

It was a joke? I find that surprising.

Why would Nero be less likely to make such observations as scum?

[Egix96]

alc vote tris with us

Nah, don’t think I will.

Yeah. So what do you think of the wagon on tris? Are you town/null on tris and do you think the tris voters are legit with their votes? Why don't you want to go there?

I think it’s the kind of wagon that forms on people who

screw around

and people don’t get the joke. Tris’s behavior is probably more likely Town than scum. Will look closer at the voters when I’m not tired; right now all that stands out is the one person voting them 4 times.

I wouldn't really say that's what Tris was doing though, more like... flopping? Idk, I'm reluctant to call it flailing since I agree with your second sentence. If anything, it's Echo who was mucking about by spamvoting her.

[Egix96]

I wouldn't really say that's what Tris was doing though, more like... flopping? Idk, I'm reluctant to call it flailing since I agree with your second sentence. If anything, it's Echo who was mucking about by spamvoting her.

Good to see you are also thinking of tris as town (as I do). Can I interest you in voting Alch or where do you have your head at rn?

Sure, why not?

VOTE: Alchemist

[Egix96]

If you are the one who does the choking, isn't it as likely to be a bad thing for you, as it is for someone else?

???

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Egix96]

alc vote tris with us

Nah, don’t think I will.

Yeah. So what do you think of the wagon on tris? Are you town/null on tris and do you think the tris voters are legit with their votes? Why don't you want to go there?

I think it’s the kind of wagon that forms on people who

screw around

and people don’t get the joke. Tris’s behavior is probably more likely Town than scum. Will look closer at the voters when I’m not tired; right now all that stands out is the one person voting them 4 times.

I wouldn't really say that's what Tris was doing though, more like... flopping? Idk, I'm reluctant to call it flailing since I agree with your second sentence. If anything, it's Echo who was mucking about by spamvoting her.

You agree with my read but it doesn’t sound like your reason is the same, so what are you Townreading from Tris? Can you elaborate on why you Townread 89

I was thinking that scum wouldn't forget that they hadn't moved their vote.

[Egix96]

but here I just felt like making a joke about it.

11 sorta makes me think this wasn't a joke.

but also

VOTE: echovision
Serious vote of my own.

you aren't using your words so either you are scum that's pretending like they are doing things by throwing down a forceful naked vote or you are massively unhelpful town.

I was joking about it because I wanted to move past it
And like, I was trying to pressure EV to not be rando but that didn't work it seems
still feel like voting there since I don't really know why EV is doing what he's doing and it's not a thing that I can see waved away by a "weird =/= scum" line

if i start out by playing like a dip shit then

i don't have to explain myself to people

which is significantly less work for me and it's so fantastic
i can just read the thread and have some fun by extending my self-rvs until i find something to bite on

That seems like it would be a luxury for scum, so how does it serve you as town?

[Egix96]

Or we can vote you out for deliberately obfuscating your motives

you could
feel free to if you really think that's the best course of action for day 1

So you're just... fine with being misyeeted, if town?

Scum would know the amount of scum right?

Yeah, but they still have to pretend that they don't.

[Egix96]

Or we can vote you out for deliberately obfuscating your motives

you could
feel free to if you really think that's the best course of action for day 1

So you're just... fine with being misyeeted, if town?

if the town collectively finds that to be the best course of action sure why not
vote analysis is a thing too

But from your perspective, that's what scum want, and you ideally shouldn't want to die.

VOTE: testarossa

Why? You don't seem to have said anything about or to her prior to this point.

also y’all seem like you universally scum read me and the fact that there’s not a wagon on me yet kind of concerns me
i’m about to get in the shower so i’m on mobile but i do want to go back and examine the people who tried to call me out but haven’t voted me
seems a little cautious in my eyes

Really? There are three votes on you though, how does that not count?

[Egix96]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Echovision

Consider me unimpressed.

[Egix96]

I was thinking that scum wouldn't forget that they hadn't moved their vote.

Not really sure that’s a good reason to be Townreading someone.

Understandably not for a strong read, but that post did ring as genuine to me.

[Egix96]

Egix, do you have anything to say about anyone other than echo and nero?

Not really aorn, but I'll have a go at rereading the thread tomorrow.

[Egix96]

i think echo is more likely town. just because you hate his playstyle, doesn't make him mafia. and he's stopped being like that, and is actually contributing now. and, i like what he has said in that time. it seems like townie thoughts.

Is it really a matter of hatred though? I've touched on before how his play serves scum more than town.

ok it's past midnihgt and i'm dead and i don't have anything intelligent to offer (i will get to that tomorrow i *promise*) however i wanna share the tinfoil cracktheory becaue i once again don't think i could sleep without sharing it this game day

i keep going between "this is dumb as shit" and "this is REALLY dumb as shit" in my head but whatever

please imagine the guy pointing at butterfly meme

Also there are only 2 scum but thats besides the point.

I'm clearly scum that slipped.

is this a traitor?

*Jontron voice* Nahhh it's prolly nothin'.
Serious answer: Not Really dumb, just... dumb.

echovision why are you voting testa i wanna know

i do actually want to know this though

absolutely no reason i just felt like it

*Faints*

[Egix96]

assuming that's true, town can act in anti-town ways.

Not usually as purposefully as that though, if you ask me.

[Egix96]

Not usually as purposefully as that though, if you ask me.

Why do you think he acts like that as scum though, even doubling down on it when the wagon on him is already at E-2? I have seen Nero's take on it, but I find it hard to believe since he was already acting like that before Gamma got wagoned.

Admittedly I'm not sure how you expect me to be able to answer that, but I will say that the last time I played in a game with Echo, he practically crumbled as soon as a wagon formed on him. The disappointing thing was that he was actually town that time...

Someone got a more solid read on Egix? He kind of moved down to the scum side with his recent posts as they feel kind of fluffy with being here without actually doing/saying much. Plus he seems mostly focussed on Echo, not really looking elsewhere.

Hmmmmmmmm. With how slow the game's been progressing, I've been finding it hard to stay engaged.

Still, a couple things I'd like to note while I have the chance:

- Mizzy feels like she's just... "there" this game, even though I can understand why she's not posting more. It's just that I've found what posts she has made so far to not be very impactful.

- I'm not really getting the whole "parroting" thing with Cakez. To me it just seems like he has that thing where you don't really know how you feel until someone else says something that inspires you. (This is something I tend to experience, personally.)

[Egix96]

if, gamma's not happening, what about VOTE: egix?

There are 2 days left. I don’t think a wagon that isn’t already a large one is going to happen. What makes you think Egix is more viable than Gamma?

Two days is definitely enough time to start a new wagon. If a few people switch usually it snowballs.

This post is... mehhh.
How would you feel if I actually got speedwagonned?

[Egix96]

Not usually as purposefully as that though, if you ask me.

Why do you think he acts like that as scum though, even doubling down on it when the wagon on him is already at E-2? I have seen Nero's take on it, but I find it hard to believe since he was already acting like that before Gamma got wagoned.

Admittedly I'm not sure how you expect me to be able to answer that, but I will say that the last time I played in a game with Echo, he practically crumbled as soon as a wagon formed on him. The disappointing thing was that he was actually town that time...

when did you play a game with me? i don't remember your name sorry boo bear

Newbie 1911, iirc.

PS: holy AtE, Batman.

[Egix96]

I'd be all for it, cuz you calling a post where I say a speedwagon on you is achievable "meh" kinda reeks. And I haven't been crazy about any of your other content.

What I didn't like about it was that it seemed like you were just giving advice rather than taking a stance of your own.

[Egix96]

i don't want to vote [skitter] out on day one when it's gonna be a flash execution.

I'm feeling the same way.

[Egix96]

I still really think certain players (una, egix, testa) are being overlooked. I don't think it's as easy as (Alch, Gamma, Skitter).

Echo had Bomba locked in as town, so I wouldn't want to go there today.

Testa I'm kinda undecided on though. Some thoughts:

108 - I like that Testa goes more in-depth when questioning here - it's much more than a simple "why not?"

110 - If she already has an idea what Bomba is thinking, then why bother asking? This feels a bit forced.

127 - Scum probably wouldn't bother with questioning the TR here - Datisi's read seems unobtrusive (idk if that's the word I'm looking for) enough that scum could easily accept it silently.

397 - "[Echo's] take on his wagon (and votes) is imo spot on and I pretty much agree with both his reads on Alch and Nero." - Ehh my gut actually says this could have been a grab for towncred. Word choices used ring as kinda pockety.

[Egix96]

i've actually been a less impressed with echo though, so maybe i should switch there.

actually nvm on this. i don't think he's playing like scum

VOTE: skitter

VOTE: skitter
Think she's trying to position herself tactically here

while this is, like, wrong, it's also a bonkers vote for scum to be making in this gamestate

(namely: he's currently the leading wagon. and is following his cw onto a vanity wagon that is extremely unlikely to get traction in the next (i think) 17 hours or whatever it is. survivalistic scum don't really make this vote)

oof. i think you're right. i noticed it earlier, but i didn't want to give up on my scumread, but it's actually a strong piece of evidence UNVOTE:

i've completely changed my mind here. VOTE: Echo

Was there actually anything to make you think that Echo was scum though? Your progression here seems kinda whack.

[Egix96]

After your read-through what is your read on Testa?

That was my current read. If I had to guess though, mayyybe scum?

[Egix96]

Your progression here seems kinda whack.

I mean, I get it if you were voting Echo purely to avert a Gamma yeet, but I'm just a bit surprised that skitt's post there was enough to make you flip your read on Gamma.

[Egix96]

That was my current read. If I had to guess though, mayyybe scum?

If I go by your post about me it looks like you were indecisive, you kind of listed two pro-town points and two pro-scum points. What is in your opinion tipping the balance to the scum side?

It's because, in various games I've spectated, there seems to be this sort of archetype of the scum player who makes a good first impression, but looks a bt murkier beneath the surface.
I'm just mildly paranoid that you might be fitting that type.

[Egix96]

Egix, where is your head at rn? You just have tris and me as suspicions?

Independent of that, can you explain your current read on skitter slot?

Yes. Also, my top two town rn are Icon and Nero.

I haven't yet got around to examining skitter's posts, though I didn't get any strong feelings from just seeing her posts while catching up before.

This is the part where I was about to say "so yeah, she's still pretty much null" but then I remembered about not wanting to yeet her D1, but that's because I was more confident in an Echo scum flip and also not wanting to risk a D1 yeet on someone I consider to be a strong player.

[Egix96]

I'm thinking egix might be my top townread now that Datisi is unfortunately gone.

Huh.

That's... even though I'm not really all that into this game, if I dare say so myself?

[Egix96]

Yes. Also, my top two town rn are Icon and Nero.

huh

i don't think nero and myself are townreading each other that much

why are you?

For you it's mainly that I find this:

i agree with SiroftheCakez that EV has been more active in general because of pressure, but i kinda disagree that it didn't get better
actually was liking EV posts some more lately, but the general conclusions still seem off. Mostly about what I quoted wrt datisi.

... hard to see coming from scum given the context (you had been confbiasing strongly on Echo during your catchup that day).

As for Nero, it's mostly a vibes thing, he just generally feels towny to me *shrug*

[Egix96]

based on how skitter came in I'd guess some under the radar players, to throw out some names maybe unah and testa?

Yea, that was a nice day end.
Didn't even realize we were so close to deadline then.

Gonna start this day by checking Datisi last reads - I feel like they were probably on the right track.

tbh I sus this post

Was 725 no longer a factor for you when you wrote these? If so, why not?

[Egix96]

Una, I think you mentioned somewhere that Alch and skitter slot are never scum together.

Yes, and that's literally all I'm saying.
I can actually see either of the two as

potential scumsters

- not necessarily my own scumreads as of right now though - but they are never scum together.
If one of them is scum - the other is town. Period.

Well that would explain this.

[Egix96]

VOTE: SirCakez

I'd rather do this than Gamma.

Spoiler: Rough notes, unformatted

Gamma

21 - "saying my side is “the scummiest” is a massive reach" - Feels a bit overly reactive. Why doesn't he ask why she thinks it's the scummiest?

80 - This is the post that Testa got "very minimalistic townie vibes from" (109) I personally am not aware of the context though.

104 - See 121 for own thoughts on this post.

158 - "I was trying to pressure EV to not be rando" - Finding it hard to see how that one could've worked, heh.

201 - Verrry slight town vibes from tone here.

246 - Strange turn, but... not sure it's actually scummy?

317 / 319 - Liking Gamma more than Cakez here.

320 - "I think you probably took your vote off too early." Urrrk.

404 - I wonder which game "Cards of Destiny" was, not sure I would have the commitment to take a look at it though.

495 - Mildly liking the initiative displayed here and the nuance in the tris read.

573 - I really should've heeded this.

772 - Mentioning Bomba here seems at odds with 725.

***

Cakez

Starts off (up to first line of 120) calling several posts scummy in some fashion, but doesn't seem to TR anything - could be scum mindset looking for things to push and not being concerned with finding town.

231 - Meh

381 - Pings as potential s/s with tris (tbf I am drawing from personal experience here)

485 - I think I'm starting to get the parroting thing now - this post looks like a copycat of Icon's 465. Also, "still"? Usage of that word doesn't seem to make sense considering prior posts e.g. 445/446. UNLESS it was meant in the sense of "there's still a part of me that thinks that" but even that's a stretch.

792 - Tbf scum!Cakez has less reason to make this post if (Alch, Gamma, Skitter) all town.

289, 560, 931

"You're only pulling this out because you're mad I'm agreeing with Nero"
"you calling a post where I say a speedwagon on you is achievable "meh" kinda reeks."
"And you're just calling me scum because you know I'm right so you want to discredit me."

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Egix96]

"You're only pulling this out because you're mad I'm agreeing with Nero"
"you calling a post where I say a speedwagon on you is achievable "meh" kinda reeks."
"And you're just calling me scum because you know I'm right so you want to discredit me."

I'm seeing a pattern here.

What is that?

It's that you seem to be showing a "You're rustled because I'm on to you" mentality which I would normally associate with scum trying to look like town that's trying to intimidate the scum (because town usually don't really do that).

[Egix96]

i kinda hate when ppl list the quote numbers but don't link to the posts or actually quote the post.

Sry, but I was doing all that in a plain text editor and it was getting late, so I didn't want to spend ages adding in (post) tags everywhere after copy-pasting.

[Egix96]

Yes. Also, my top two town rn are Icon and Nero.

huh

i don't think nero and myself are townreading each other that much

why are you?

For you it's mainly that I find this:

i agree with SiroftheCakez that EV has been more active in general because of pressure, but i kinda disagree that it didn't get better
actually was liking EV posts some more lately, but the general conclusions still seem off. Mostly about what I quoted wrt datisi.

... hard to see coming from scum given the context (you had been confbiasing strongly on Echo during your catchup that day).

for that? i don't see it. i townread iconeum for other reasons. namely, his interactions with una

It's just that, ime, scum don't normally show that much willingness to re-evaluate when tunnelling on people. They feel like they have to get that misyeet through.

Una, I think you mentioned somewhere that Alch and skitter slot are never scum together.

Yes, and that's literally all I'm saying.
I can actually see either of the two as

potential scumsters

- not necessarily my own scumreads as of right now though - but they are never scum together.
If one of them is scum - the other is town. Period.

Well that would explain this.

ooooh! but, is that true? there could be two scum in a neighborhood right?

Technically possible, but unlikely. Fwiw, when I was a neighbour in a normal game, the hood was 1S2T.

[Egix96]

Do you think I'm wrong?

I don't think you're pushing on scum, no. I'm thinking that Gamma is slight town overall, and Bomba does seem probtown to me based on a quick skim.

[Egix96]

Not usually as purposefully as that though, if you ask me.

Why do you think he acts like that as scum though, even doubling down on it when the wagon on him is already at E-2? I have seen Nero's take on it, but I find it hard to believe since he was already acting like that before Gamma got wagoned.

Admittedly I'm not sure how you expect me to be able to answer that, but I will say that the last time I played in a game with Echo, he practically crumbled as soon as a wagon formed on him. The disappointing thing was that he was actually town that time...

i think i pointed this out before. why would you wagon him this time if this was the case? And, still be voting for him

Because I deemed it to be NAI rather than a towntell. I haven't seen how scum!Echo plays in order to make a contrast there.

[Egix96]

Uggghhh, I figure because of weekend there is hardly anyone around here?

I am probably at Alch > NM > Cakez.

I hate that Cakez wagon, even although I am townreading tris, it's almost the same as the Echo wagon. I just accept that Alch is at this point a lost cause and he will get away again with low effort. NM wagon isn't looking to go through either, because he is even selfvoting and I doubt he will see his own exe through.

Nonetheless
VOTE: Not_Mafia

I am going to sleep in 1-2 hours, if there is no one else willing to go for NM I will put Cakez at E-1 as the next time I can be around is literally minutes before deadline.

Both Cakez and NM were posting elsewhere recently...

Can't hold out any longer. Sorry if you are town, Cakez.

VOTE: SirCakez

E-1

Fucking terrible progression

Agreed

[Egix96]

who kills datisi N1

Probably anyone, tbf

[Egix96]

i would like to see egix claim next

Is this still true?

[Egix96]

you can go

Vanilla town.
Testa next?

[Egix96]

who else was scumreading testa? I know I had her as potential scum, did anyone else?
I'm curious to see what their new reads end up being

Me.

[Egix96]

who else was scumreading testa? I know I had her as potential scum, did anyone else?
I'm curious to see what their new reads end up being

Me.

fascinating. do you have anything else to share?

Okay, so excluding myself and the IC, we have:

{Alchemist, NM, Bomba} - I think it's fair to assume that this neighbourhood is 2t1s, since I agree 2s1t is unlikely due to the daytalk thing and I don't think there's room in this gamestate for the hood to be 3t. I think that Bomba is the towniest in this group, with the scum being a tossup between the other two (aorn I'm like 51% NM 49% Alch, I oughta reread here).

{Ico, tris} - I'm doubting that these two are t/t since having 5 TPRs (not counting neighbours) in a game with only 12 players total seems like overkill to me. I'm leaning towards tris being the s, this is about 75/25.

That leaves Gamma, whose alignment I guess hinges on whether there are two or three scum?

[Egix96]

can we do alchemist?

Why should I vote Alch over NM? (Don't just say "cos he's your buddy")

[Egix96]

can we do alchemist?

Why should I vote Alch over NM? (Don't just say "cos he's your buddy")

Why did NM came up on top after your reread?

I didn't actually get around to doing that, sorry. Too much procrastination over the weekend.
My gut is just leaning more that way now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Egix96]

I might not be on at deadline, but I'm here for a bit now.

[Egix96]

VOTE: Alch

I guess it's either this or nothing then.

[Egix96]

huh?

Looks like you thought your kill hadn't gone through for a moment there

VOTE: Tris

I was Occam's Razoring that whole wagon as being town once I saw the Alch flip, though ofc you had to take the safe kill while knowing that me knowing the team wouldn't matter.

[Egix96]

huh?

Looks like you thought your kill hadn't gone through for a moment there

VOTE: Tris

I was Occam's Razoring that whole wagon as being town once I saw the Alch flip, though ofc you had to take the safe kill while knowing that me knowing the team wouldn't matter.

no, i was just wondering why the thread was being unlocked without anything further said.

who's the team?

You and Gamma ofc.

[Egix96]

The way Egix came in this day looks to me like a scum opening tbh.

If you'll forgive my self-awareness, yes, I likely would have made the same post as scum.

I also think Egix should explain why he thinks this setup has three scum and how a Alch/tris/Gamma team works.

I'm basing it on the benchmark of a mountainous 11er (9VT, 2 MG). Add an extra townie, turn some of the VTs into power roles... it would make sense to also convert one of them into an extra mafia to compensate, yeah?

I'll work on the second part of that separately.

[Egix96]

Spoiler: Wall

5 - Some cute rvs-banter that's just for some easy distancing.

17, 18 (tris votes Gamma, Alch asks why) - Alch may have been genuinely curious to see one of his partners voting the other.

21 - Distancing gone wrong. The note I made on this post before in p#942 makes more sense now.

43 - Alch attempting to salvage the situation.

46 - I'm sure you get the idea. (In case you don't, and for the sake of completeness - aborting the Gamma push because she realised she'd caused an awkward situation.)

78 - Reluctance to bus.

89 - "wait, i thought i had moved my vote, but i hadn't." - I feel kinda dumb now for taking this at face value.

116, 117 - Distancing by proxy (throwing mild shade on partners, using Testa as the medium).

162 (context in 161) - this is so blatant, it almost seems too partnery to be partnered... it's at this point that I feel like no one's gonna believe me.

305 - More tagteaming.

307 - More distancing by proxy, this time from Alch.

312 - Downplaying the 1v1 between Nero and Gamma because it involves one of his buddies.

405 - This reaction seems rather overblown. Perhaps because it's theatre.

459 - "Alch kinda comes off as Town too" - Partnery.

481 - Disregarding that this would have been a very risky post to make... how else would Alch expect to avoid losing Gamma here?

495 - That's actually a really smart move. I doubt Gamma was actually expecing others to join him though.

506 - Relevant sound clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMWR_4kVe4Q

620 - The whack progression I pointed out before makes sense now! It was purely to avert an elim on her own buddy!

723 - Some offhand, inconsequential shade.

That's up to the end of D1, which is as far as I'm going for today. I realise that clicking through post tags can be a bit cumbersome, so I recommend opening a multi-ISO of the three of them in a new tab if you just wanna see everything in one go.

[Egix96]

My problem with a 3p scum team is the way how D3 went down. If it would have been mylo they could have just won yesterday,

the Ico kill proves that they weren't afraid of an eventual jk shot

. In fact it was foolproof because Ico was townreading tris anyway and believed that the Commuter claim is town.

.

No, if that were the case, wouldn't they have just killed you? Shooting Ico was the safe play if they had any doubt as to whether he'd already jailed.

[Egix96]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I see more chance of this happening than a tris elim.

[Egix96]

I was town sry

[Egix96]

yay!

GG. Surprised NM was scum there.