Mini Normal 2169 : random facts, game over !

[Battle Mage]

I just spent a fun few mins reading Noraa's completed town game.

Spoiler:

Dude, why didn't you save the tracker on N1? lol

the tl:dr is:

Excited, over-zealous, enthusiastic scumhunting, lots of obvtowning, keen to give reads, not tunnel-visioned, overwhelmingly happy and bubbly.

Will re-read here, although my starting assumption is, it feels a heck of a lot different.

lmaoooo using my town meta against me in a town game? if ur town, ur gonna eat ur own words post game. I did zero solving as the dang JKer day 1. A little bit day 2 and a little bit day 3. I also didn't get tunneled at all in that game after hammering a scum that claimed JKer day 1. No shit I seemed happier that round when I was basically conftown.

this is a lie. you did lots of solving throughout. i read the game. others can too.

i'm vibing with the idea you were happy in that game cause you were town. but you were happy there from the beginning, well before anyone flipped. here you were not. is it the burden of knowing you are scum?

I'm finding the fact that Noraa initially only focussed on me, and others when they voted her, for AAGES, troubling.

No sense of townie-zeal to try and catch scum. Just OMGUS and self-defence.

When she does eventually move to other suspects, she justifies as "they benefit most from BM v Noraa" which implies TvT, but she is still claiming a scumread on me at that point.

claims she doesnt produce content as town, when she did.

i dunno. heart still says town but head says burn.

Scum can benefit from their partner being in a fight with a townie. It doesn't imply TvT. I said I would drop the tunneling. Those were replies as to what I thought a while ago. You, my dude need to untunnel and stop using the same old boring accusations against me.[/quote]

nah i don't buy that. scum don't gain shit from their buddy being in a 1v1. the idea that somebody must be scum BECAUSE they are the main beneficiary from a SvT conflict is
ridiculous.

i dunno. join me on teacher, and we can call it even for today.

[Battle Mage]

wtf have u even read one of my scum games? Im a happy person in general as long as I don't feel low-key trampled on okay? You are over here throwing shade at me and basically saying ur gonna give me a free town pass if I vote with u. wtf.

VOTE: BM

why are you so reluctant to vote teacher? please share your read on him.

if you're actually just regressing back to your old ways now, that makes me more comfortable flipping you I think. Again, just OMGUS with no real protown mindset.

[Battle Mage]

Im a noob but I'm not going to vote with u to get a free town pass. I don't need a flipping town pass. Im town and ik it. idc if u think I'm town or not bc u just seem unreasonable and manipulative.

since when has knowing you're town been a decisive factor in avoiding death?

if you're town, i don't know what your problem is. i was very reasonable - i said if you voted teacher-scum, i would let you live. what more were you expecting??

[Battle Mage]

maybe if we just elim you, you can be happy? but apparently all you care about is voting for whoever "shades" you?

[Battle Mage]

wtf have u even read one of my scum games? Im a happy person in general as long as I don't feel low-key trampled on okay? You are over here throwing shade at me and basically saying ur gonna give me a free town pass if I vote with u. wtf.

VOTE: BM

why are you so reluctant to vote teacher? please share your read on him.

if you're actually just regressing back to your old ways now, that makes me more comfortable flipping you I think. Again, just OMGUS with no real protown mindset.

Im a noob but I'm not going to vote with u to get a free town pass. I don't need a flipping town pass. Im town and ik it. idc if u think I'm town or not bc u just seem unreasonable and manipulative.

since when has knowing you're town been a decisive factor in avoiding death?

if you're town, i don't know what your problem is. i was very reasonable - i said if you voted teacher-scum, i would let you live. what more were you expecting??

I have MY OWN READ and I will not change it to match urs scum!BM. period.

I mean, you don't have your own read though do you? you literally just voted for me again in a futile act of retaliation.

[Battle Mage]

Its Thursday. I don't want to reread until Saturday. It'll take too many hours bc I haven't been paying any attention to this game.

i mean perhaps if you had been paying attention and trying hard in this game, as you do in other games, people wouldn't shade you? just a thought that maybe it isn't everybody else's fault.

[Battle Mage]

Teacher isn't one of my SRs so why should I listen to u. my read is shit but I'm not sheeping urs

you could have read my analysis of him and formed your own view. I'd prefer you to read it and explain why you disagree, rather than just dismiss it and going "no BM, fk you".
As i say, you obviously have plenty of time to rage at me, but apparently not enough to pursue your actual win condition in this game of finding scum? mysterious eh?

[Battle Mage]

mad that anyone can play outside the newbie queue and pretend not to understand the idea that this game sometimes involves changing your opinions. although i suppose having opinions is a prerequisite. but the idea that because you dont SR teacher at a point in time, means you cant ever re-consider that assessment, does you a disservice Noraa.

[Battle Mage]

info wise, i also like TGP-flip.

even Bunno flip would be sweet for that.

tl;dr me on this?

@noraa,

what

is your read?

TGP could easily flip scum and he also posted an interesting and clear readslist to work from if he flipped scum.

Bunno has posted a lot but I think he's given lots of forthright opinions, so I think flipping him early would give us lots of possible leads. Flipping him later makes that less likely as there'll just be too much fluff if he continues to post at this rate.

They aren't actual proposals to elim as such, just my train of thought on D1 strategy

[Battle Mage]

yo Shelly, Bob - wanna join Datisi and me on the teacher-express? all aboard!

[Battle Mage]

after which i will say, "hey Ico, let's consolidate!"

[Battle Mage]

Meta is trash and unreliable

wtf have u even read one of my scum games?
VOTE: BM

[Battle Mage]

Its Thursday. I don't want to reread until Saturday. It'll take too many hours bc I haven't been paying any attention to this game.

i mean perhaps if you had been paying attention and trying hard in this game, as you do in other games, people wouldn't shade you? just a thought that maybe it isn't everybody else's fault.

Teacher isn't one of my SRs so why should I listen to u. my read is shit but I'm not sheeping urs

you could have read my analysis of him and formed your own view. I'd prefer you to read it and explain why you disagree, rather than just dismiss it and going "no BM, fk you".
As i say, you obviously have plenty of time to rage at me, but apparently not enough to pursue your actual win condition in this game of finding scum? mysterious eh?

dude can you stop? I already said multiple times that I am busy and not rereading until the weekend. I never said its everyone's fault that I dislike this game. I thought I made it clear enough that it was specifically you. I ask that you respect my decisions and stop pushing where unnecessary. You will fucking get a read when I have time, ok?

No, not ok. You don't have any right to blame me, or anybody else, for people calling out your lack of scumhunting, which you admit yourself was part of a conscious decision on your part not to try in this game. It's not a personal criticism of you, but it's an observation players in this game have made that your behaviour at times has been scummy. Rather than accept that, or at least discuss it openly, you've aggressively denied it and regardless of how people are actually playing, just attacked anyone who points out anything about you.

This is a game of mafia

, you played scummy, and people put pressure on you as a result. That's just how it works. If you aren't up for that, I don't know what to tell ya - maybe stop ranting and swearing and try and do some reads or something instead.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: BM
VOTE: BM

u deserve the lim more than anyone else here.

...if this is really all you're gonna do all game, i'm legit ok with policy elimming you today. like, what would you have done if i actually voted you?

[Battle Mage]

You were saying that I wouldn't be able to defend that I was town without any town meta and I replied something like "meta is trash and unreliable a lot of the time anyways so I don't see what's wrong with not having any"

1523 was saying I am normally happy and therefore active and attentive. This is personality not meta.

stop cutting up ur quotes to twist my words.

no dude, meta is meta. you can't just call it "personality" as a defence.

[Battle Mage]

nope, i've bent over backwards to try and help you develop and improve. i'm disappointed that you've responded as you have, but ultimately I'm here to try and have an enjoyable game and play for a town-win. If you're just planning to vote me all game out of petulance, and rant and rave whenever anyone calls you out about gameplay stuff, then we're clearly better off elimming you Day 1. I think there's a decent enough chance you could be scum anyway. You can be as salty as you like about that, but it's just my opinion.

[Battle Mage]

and even in spite of all your shenanigans and distractions, you'll note I'm still actually voting for somebody I scumread for actual reasons. big tick BM

[Battle Mage]

for clarity, I'm voting

Teacher

[Battle Mage]

Datisi why are you voting for teacher?

the bigger question is, why aren't you?

[Battle Mage]

okay, I'm going to have a think about this but my initial impression is still that I don't think it's adding up, and that you're changing your reads to keep them inline with general trends in the gamestate and are having difficulty explaining how you established certain reads or are giving very vague answers which allow you avoid responsibility or elaborating on what you precisely believed at certain points

I think that's it in terms of questions for you rn, I don't think there's anything fruitful to ask you further and I think it will just spam the thread up

thanks for responding tho

bc of this @noraa

i guarantee that even if you hadnt answered that, noraa would have found her way onto the shelly wagon. I caught her paving the way for it earlier with that coy "so you're at -2 huh?"

[Battle Mage]

we're already at 63 pages

and how many of those pages are actually useful as opposed to fluffy garbage and

whatever BM and noraa are doing

BM being awesome
like i'm not saying we need to put off any execution until 5 seconds before deadline because that is moronic, but i'd also like ~more~ before we end the day (at 4 days left?) because even if shelly does flip scum, tomorrow is gonna be more of a headache

agreed

[Battle Mage]

shelly is scummy. she's been scummy, and she will continue to be scummy. the day is at 63 pages with plenty of content. worst case scenario we're losing a VT. at this point continuing to run the day long is not going to get us a whole lot of anything other than apathy and increased difficulty in sorting back through on later days

i disagree and will not discuss it further. i'm not being browbeaten into flipping shelly now. we're running up teacher.

[Battle Mage]

teacher you should vote shelly

@bunno I'll cut you a deal and we can do Taylor either way tomorrow if you vote shelly today right here right now, one time offer

why are you so desperate to protect teacher again? you havent said much about him so far, so this is odd?

[Battle Mage]

shelly is scummy. she's been scummy, and she will continue to be scummy. the day is at 63 pages with plenty of content. worst case scenario we're losing a VT. at this point continuing to run the day long is not going to get us a whole lot of anything other than apathy and increased difficulty in sorting back through on later days

i disagree and will not discuss it further. i'm not being browbeaten into flipping shelly now. we're running up teacher.

no, we're fucking not, we're flipping shelly

no dude, she claimed vanilla townie, i'm fine with that. we're looking elsewhere. like, probably not shelly or taylor because they are apathy wagons.

[Battle Mage]

teacher you should vote shelly

@bunno I'll cut you a deal and we can do Taylor either way tomorrow if you vote shelly today right here right now, one time offer

why are you so desperate to protect teacher again? you havent said much about him so far, so this is odd?

blah blah blah, I don't give a shit about teacher rn beyond whether or not he's gonna vote shelly for me

i don't care man, we aren't elimming shelly, we're elimming teacher.

[Battle Mage]

if we flip shelly and she's town and we flip teacher later and he's scum I'll die too

rn i don't really care, and I frankly don't give a fuck if this looks like I'm protecting teacher or not

your play here makes no sense. all your teacher-defence is doing is making me more convinced that we should elim teacher.

[Battle Mage]

one explanation: shelly's towngame looks like her scumgame because she's rolled scum a lot

second explanation: SHE'S LITERALLY JUST SCUM AGAIN

ur evidence is weak tho. u have nothing on her except her playstyle and that's literally how she is every single round. get some solid evidence and I'll sheep this vote.

dude this proves your case is weak lol

[Battle Mage]

the second best option would be Taylor but WHY would we do that when shelly has already claimed and has not gotten any townier

the whole point of getting a claim is being able to make a judgement on whether you believe it.

i asked for a claim
i got a claim
i was happy that the claim was good enough to buy her another day

that's the game buddy

[Battle Mage]

I find it stupid that our top two day 1 lims are two people that are literally known for their scummy playstyles.

i actually agree. are we in a parallel universe?

[Battle Mage]

i seriously think if taylor or shelly are scum, it doesnt matter one jot if we flip them today. if both are scum, i think town is winning this game regardless, so who cares? let's flip teacher and be done with it.

[Battle Mage]

if we flip shelly and she's town and we flip teacher later and he's scum I'll die too

rn i don't really care, and I frankly don't give a fuck if this looks like I'm protecting teacher or not

your play here makes no sense. all your teacher-defence is doing is making me more convinced that we should elim teacher.

blah blah blah

okay go off and have fun trying to build your teacher wagon then

i mean my teacher wagon is already nearly as big as your failed shelly wagon

[Battle Mage]

the second best option would be Taylor but WHY would we do that when shelly has already claimed and has not gotten any townier

the whole point of getting a claim is being able to make a judgement on whether you believe it.

i asked for a claim
i got a claim
i was happy that the claim was good enough to buy her another day

that's the game buddy

no, that's moronic

you ask for the claim to avoid hitting a PR

that's literally it

if the person is scummy enough to need to claim you kill them unless they claim PR in which case you weigh if it's likely to be true or not then decide if it's worth wagoning anyone else

you're saying anyone who claims vanilla, you auto-flip? bloody hell dude lol

maybe i'm playing this game on another level or something, where we actually use deduction and take account of all available info.

[Battle Mage]

please don't

vote shelly

vote teacher

[Battle Mage]

i seriously think if taylor or shelly are scum, it doesnt matter one jot if we flip them today. if both are scum, i think town is winning this game regardless, so who cares? let's flip teacher and be done with it.

what are you even saying lmao

dude stop posturing and vote teacher. when he flips scum, you can still get some towncred if you jump on board now.

[Battle Mage]

I'm not fucking around rn

vote shelly and lets get this show on the road

we're not fucking around with a whole new wagon for some weak ass reasons just bc BM has a fetish for needing all the attention to be on him

haha you can swear and throw a tantrum all you want mate - the game is mafia, and we're trying to use the time we have to find out who is scum.

Simple!

Get on board with the VOTE: teacher, or get off here

[Battle Mage]

the second best option would be Taylor but WHY would we do that when shelly has already claimed and has not gotten any townier

the whole point of getting a claim is being able to make a judgement on whether you believe it.

i asked for a claim
i got a claim
i was happy that the claim was good enough to buy her another day

that's the game buddy

no, that's moronic

you ask for the claim to avoid hitting a PR

that's literally it

if the person is scummy enough to need to claim you kill them unless they claim PR in which case you weigh if it's likely to be true or not then decide if it's worth wagoning anyone else

you're saying anyone who claims vanilla, you auto-flip? bloody hell dude lol

maybe i'm playing this game on another level or something, where we actually use deduction and take account of all available info.

say something useful or stop talking

i mean, all i did in the quote above was explain how to respond when somebody claims. you're entitled to play differently, although i admit i'm slightly baffled by your approach

[Battle Mage]

I'm not fucking around rn

vote shelly and lets get this show on the road

we're not fucking around with a whole new wagon for some weak ass reasons just bc BM has a fetish for needing all the attention to be on him

haha you can swear and throw a tantrum all you want mate - the game is mafia, and we're trying to use the time we have to find out who is scum.

Simple!

Get on board with the VOTE: teacher, or get off here

cute when you've got 2 votes and I've got 4 but keep trying diddums

you'll have to explain to me again why you seem to be happy with any wagon other than teacher?

could it be....?

[Battle Mage]

if you can't see how incredibly antitown you're being rn I can't help you

you'll have to explain it to me. as far as i'm concerned, we were doing analysis of who to elim, you showed up and spammed up the thread with:

"look at me, i want to elim shelly still because i cant get over the fact my wagon diminished"

i'm definitely doing the protown thing by creating some balance here, so town doesnt get completely railroaded.

[Battle Mage]

I'm not fucking around rn

vote shelly and lets get this show on the road

we're not fucking around with a whole new wagon for some weak ass reasons just bc BM has a fetish for needing all the attention to be on him

haha you can swear and throw a tantrum all you want mate - the game is mafia, and we're trying to use the time we have to find out who is scum.

Simple!

Get on board with the VOTE: teacher, or get off here

cute when you've got 2 votes and I've got 4 but keep trying diddums

you'll have to explain to me again why you seem to be happy with any wagon other than teacher?

could it be....?

yes, I'm happy with any other wagon, that's why I've been trying to get shelly flipped for literally 3 days

no case though mate, that's your problem.

I'll repost the teacher case if that helps?

[Battle Mage]

I think it's pretty obvious that BM is actively trying to push my buttons to make me say something that will get me banned/force repped and I think that's super fucking scummy incidentally as well as just bad sportsmanship

i dont care dude, nobody bullies me

[Battle Mage]

if you can't see how incredibly antitown you're being rn I can't help you

you'll have to explain it to me. as far as i'm concerned, we were doing analysis of who to elim, you showed up and spammed up the thread with:

"look at me, i want to elim shelly still because i cant get over the fact my wagon diminished"

i'm definitely doing the protown thing by creating some balance here, so town doesnt get completely railroaded.

no, you're not

you're trying to move away from a scummy slot that IN THE WORST CASE SCENARIO FLIPS VT

in order to run up a fairly null-to-town slot and to get additional claims and to give additional information to scum

im trusting my reads. that's the name of the game dude.

[Battle Mage]

I think it's pretty obvious that BM is actively trying to push my buttons to make me say something that will get me banned/force repped and I think that's super fucking scummy incidentally as well as just bad sportsmanship

Ah someone understands how I feel finally

pathetic

[Battle Mage]

I'm not going offline and I'm not going to let BM try to take control of the gamestate by outposting me

lol im not worried about how much you post mate

[Battle Mage]

that's an accurate portrayal of reality, well done BM

dude what is this? i dont even understand your obsession with flipping shelly/not flipping teacher? it's NAGL

[Battle Mage]

please i'm just asking you both to stop

like this isn't productive this is just gonna get someone banned

please just stop

lol alright dude, ill re-post my case, then i'm done.

if menalque is really gonna railroad town into a defeat, that's on him

[Battle Mage]

Case on Teacher

ISO'd teacher.

Scumlean. Little output, and what's there is largely spam and fluff. Mainly focussed on easy stuff he can commentate on from the fringes without getting involved i.e. is it good to claim, should i get an avi, sometimes pointing out potential logical failings/inconsistencies without really getting excited. Frugal with the vote. Awkward jokes. Is TvS on me v Noraa, but not willing to drive an elim on either. he has suspicions, but reasoning is weak for a seemingly smart dude. picks off the LHF but doesnt do anything with it. Doesn't really seem like legit solving as his fundamental opinions don't change. claims to think I'm scum but sheeps me on Ico. No scumhunting passion. Starts with Taylor as an easy target, never diverts and jumps on as 3rd vote when taylor wagon gets momentum.

teacher scum-flip means:

Datisi and Menalque are both town (because he seemed genuinely worried about them townbinning each other)
Ico town - teacher's nominal legit townread

Vote: teacher

[Battle Mage]

please i'm just asking you both to stop

like this isn't productive this is just gonna get someone banned

please just stop

no, I don't think I've said anything out of line or harassing and I don't think BM has said anything along those lines to me

he's a scumfuck or he's actively antitown but I don't think anything rule breaking is happening here

it's not happening right now but it's heading in that direction as far as i can tell

Please tell BM to not post a smiley faces right after saying really provocative things. It makes it ten times more provocative.

dont tell me what to do

[Battle Mage]

tell you what BM, vote shelly rn and keep your vote there until the end of day and if I'm wrong I'll sheep you for the next two days no questions asked

man i'm not playing this game with you. if you wanna keep spamming propaganda rather than actual logic and reasoning, go for it.

if you're scum, it's a poor form way to win.

if you're town, you're not playing in town's interest by stopping discussion and removing any opportunity for people to give their views and opinions (which is the basis for determining their alignment).

it doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong about shelly - and i don't know for certain which it is - your approach is 100% not in town's interests.

I've made an actual case on teacher, I'd be happy if people engage with it and give opinions. This is data which can help town win the game.

[Battle Mage]

case on teacher is literally nonexistent it's just "teacher!scum provides a decent amount of information" when their interaction actually shows otherwise and like. they're a light scumlean if anything

townreading menal very hard rn i don't see this amount of lynch effort coming from scum trying to lynch a townie

that's not the case, but i'd expect this misrep from you

[Battle Mage]

if you're town, you're not playing in town's interest by stopping discussion and removing any opportunity for people to give their views and opinions (which is the basis for determining their alignment).

we have had

63 PAGES

of this


it's time to end the day

most of these pages were you (and, admittedly, me haha).

if you vote teacher now he's at L-3.

[Battle Mage]

that post took like twelve attempts to go through oh my god everybody chill

Gypyx said to me before the game that, no matter what, this had to go 100 pages for Day 1. I guess Menalque got the same PM

[Battle Mage]

in game answer is what i already said + god forbid i tried to use my vote as an additional way to read shelly

out of game answer is out of some sorta principle? like what you're doing is not helping anyone and it's making the game not pleasant and i don't wanna bow down to it?

like i'm not saying BM isn't appearing provocative at times but like

so many pedits, @mena

ah it's all good brotha, just a bit of ego-posting on both sides. it does mean if teacher flips scum, especially scum PR, i'd look at Menal tomorrow after all.

[Battle Mage]

can i please please request that both bm and menal consolidate all their points from the past hour into one post each because this hyperposting is completely unhelpful

i mean i posted my case dude, that's basically the only substance that was posted by either of us

and i suppose my general point that just elimming shelly because she claimed vanilla is dumb (i mean, i literally claimed vanilla on Page 1 and I'm still alive). and that it's in town's interests to let people form their own opinions.

[Battle Mage]

BM is trying to outpost me so that he can control the narrative and force a teacher guillo

I'm simply not allowing that to happen

lol mate, i promise you i'm not trying to out-post you - i don't really care. i'm literally going to respond to everyone else BESIDES you and then I'm done for the night and you can rock on!

[Battle Mage]

you can win the 'ego' battle, i really do not mind!

[Battle Mage]

alright. in general i think we are in need of some flips, we're just kind of going in circles and achieving very little.

the group of {teacher/Taylor/Alonzo} have all been pretty much non-entities throughout, not really making any pushes or taking any strong stances, and i would be extremely surprised if there was no scum in this group. i'd rank them as teacher>Taylor>>>>Alonzo in terms of who is most likely scum here.

i'm also still extremely down for executing bob, who continues to seem like obvious scum to me and apparently no one else but i don't feel like i'm going to get any traction there.

i am no longer down for executing GoldenParadox. his posting has improved dramatically in recent times and i'm not surprised that the wagon disappeared.

also i really liked Bunno's entrance. feel like scum replacing in midway through D1 would be vastly more likely to focus on existing wagons than to try to generate something new in the way that Bunno did, and he made some compelling points re: Taylor.

a full reads list looks something like:

OBVTOWNS
Noraa
Battle Mage
Bunno

PROBTOWN
Iconeum
shellyc
Menalque

I HAVE SOME CONCERNS
TheGoldenParadox
Datisi
Alonzo

HERE BE SCUM
Tayl0r Swift
teacher
bob3141

VOTE: teacher

work with me here. let's ignore the information from the flip itself because you're saying you actually pretty strongly believe in teacher!scum. can you explain your case on teacher!scum disregarding any information you'd get from a potential teacher!scum flip?

ah i follow your earlier post now. look at my case too.

[Battle Mage]

in game answer is what i already said + god forbid i tried to use my vote as an additional way to read shelly

out of game answer is out of some sorta principle? like what you're doing is not helping anyone and it's making the game not pleasant and i don't wanna bow down to it?

like i'm not saying BM isn't appearing provocative at times but like

so many pedits, @mena

ah it's all good brotha, just a bit of ego-posting on both sides. it does mean if teacher flips scum, especially scum PR, i'd look at Menal tomorrow after all.

you'd see menal attacking your teacher wagon this hard as a reasonable thing for scum to do to defend a scum PR? it feels like if teacher is scum and menal is scum then menal would be using one of a thousand subtler ways to break up the teacher wagon than this blatant and all out fight among you two

pedit: we're not elimming shelly because she claimed vt but it looks very suspiciously like both you and ico are trying to run up as many wagons as possible and rolefish, which is looking quite icky to me
who's like "oh they claimed vt we're not elimming them today" like what the hell that's blatant rolefishing

i don't know mate - it's possible.

my previous assumption was teacher-scum means menal-town but this defence is hard for me to justify rationally. in fairness to menal, i'm sure he was expecting everyone to just roll over instantly and wasn't aiming to be this conspicuous

[Battle Mage]

in game answer is what i already said + god forbid i tried to use my vote as an additional way to read shelly

out of game answer is out of some sorta principle? like what you're doing is not helping anyone and it's making the game not pleasant and i don't wanna bow down to it?

like i'm not saying BM isn't appearing provocative at times but like

so many pedits, @mena

ah it's all good brotha, just a bit of ego-posting on both sides. it does mean if teacher flips scum, especially scum PR, i'd look at Menal tomorrow after all.

you'd see menal attacking your teacher wagon this hard as a reasonable thing for scum to do to defend a scum PR? it feels like if teacher is scum and menal is scum then menal would be using one of a thousand subtler ways to break up the teacher wagon than this blatant and all out fight among you two

pedit: we're not elimming shelly because she claimed vt but it looks very suspiciously like both you and ico are trying to run up as many wagons as possible and rolefish, which is looking quite icky to me
who's like "oh they claimed vt we're not elimming them today" like what the hell that's blatant rolefishing

i can dig the role-fishing argument btw, no probs! i aint scum though, and i wasn't rolefishing as such. Claims are a powerful element of the game, and I wanted the claim to help me form a judgement on whether to elim or not. Menalque plays it differently, but that's my style.

[Battle Mage]

I was fully expecting to yell at everyone about shelly because FOR SOME FUCKING REASON it is anathema to every fucking town on this site to end the day when it ought to be fucking ended and not drag it out until the last possible second

i hear ya bud, and you've obv had bad experiences, but listen:

We have just under 4 days left. Nobody is saying we leave it till the last hour. But ending the day now isn't best either. You get me?

[Battle Mage]

we're not liming her BECAUSE she claimed VT

we're liming her because VT wasn't a good enough reason to NOT lim her after how scummy she'd been up to that point

^^ this and bm your deflection isn't helping the case that you and shelly are not scum together

calling the scumteam today: {shelly/ico/bm}. this is my most viable scumteam right now and the weird flip flopping and posturing that both ico and bm have been doing with regards to the shelly wagon make me really strongly think that they are all working together

i regret to inform you, you have fallen at the 1st hurdle.

[Battle Mage]

I feel like TGP is the only person being reasonable rn in this entire PL

are you trying to pocket me?

jokes aside, i think we all need to take a break and i think datisi's being quite reasonable as well at this point. i don't think this post count race is helping either case and i'd really appreciate it if we could get a self imposed time limit on posting from both bm and menal

pedit: yeah this is a quite good point i don't condone ending the day immediately but the push to dissolve the shelly wagon feels forced.

double pedit: scum have an information advantage at the start, and roleclaiming in balanced setups usually benefits the side with the information advantage. let's not try to run up half the PL and force them to claim please.

man, the shelly wagon was dead in the water anyway, i dont understand why anyone is precious over it. I also dont understand your stance on Ico - he was an advocate of consolidating wagons as i recall, which meant shelly would have a 50% chance of being elimmed?

and i wish you'd told me the double pedit point pre-game...i wouldnt have claimed on the first page! damnit!

[Battle Mage]

But ending the day now isn't best either. You get me?

no, ending the day right now, tonight, is VERY MUCH the best possible thing we can do

there will be, I'm saying right now, no practical benefit whatsoever to ending the day one day before deadline and getting three more days of posting

there is already enough

end it now

haha perhaps you're just a better scumhunter than the rest of us dude. for me, i want to try and get all the info we can! i know theres a lot of pages but lots of it is BS. If everyone stopped spamming, we could actually focus more and hold ppl to account

[Battle Mage]

man, the shelly wagon was dead in the water anyway,

IT WAS STALLED BECAUSE IT'S ON SCUM

hang on...all the wagons have stalled.

have we nailed all 3 scum?

[Battle Mage]

Im fairly certain there is a scum within {shelly, ico}

if you're fairly certain there's scum in (shelly, icon) then why aren't you voting icon if you don't think shelly is scum????

and if you do think shelly has a good chance of being scum in that pairing, WHY WON'T YOU VOTE HER WITH ME

i feel bad for noraa in all of this. she is practically begging you to give her a reason to run shelly up. i can see it coming a mile off

[Battle Mage]

there is such a ridiculous fetish for running days out that I take advantage of again, and again, and again when I'm scum and then I call that out when I'm town and everyone goes "nO bUt wE nEeD to MaXiMiSe tHe InfOrMatIoN" and it just benefits scum

absolutely not my experience dude, complete opposite actually!

[Battle Mage]

man, the shelly wagon was dead in the water anyway,

IT WAS STALLED BECAUSE IT'S ON SCUM

hang on...all the wagons have stalled.

have we nailed all 3 scum?

no, we have a wagon on scum and we have multiple abortive counter wagons to that scum, first on TGP, now on teacher

curiously you forgot taylor?

[Battle Mage]

BM can I see the compiled reads please?

ah sorry dude, let me grab it for ya

[Battle Mage]

there is such a ridiculous fetish for running days out that I take advantage of again, and again, and again when I'm scum and then I call that out when I'm town and everyone goes "nO bUt wE nEeD to MaXiMiSe tHe InfOrMatIoN" and it just benefits scum

absolutely not my experience dude, complete opposite actually!

I'm not talking about quick hammering someone one RL day into the game

once everyone has taken sufficient stances to get someone to intent then there is enough info to be going on

more info is just drowning the signal with noise

i mean, im probably best placed to speak to whether that is sufficient, as i was the one who gave intent right?

i defo want more info when things calm down. it's a marathon not a sprint

[Battle Mage]

i'm cringing at the way TGP is sheeping Menalque right now. like verbatim.

[Battle Mage]

man, the shelly wagon was dead in the water anyway,

IT WAS STALLED BECAUSE IT'S ON SCUM

hang on...all the wagons have stalled.

have we nailed all 3 scum?

no, we have a wagon on scum and we have multiple abortive counter wagons to that scum, first on TGP, now on teacher

curiously you forgot taylor?

I actually think Taylor might be scum tho

anyone but teacher and TGP then? how convenient.

[Battle Mage]

that's okay; I'm cringing at your entire approach to this game

ooh burn. I'm not the guy who flips every vanilla claim i see.

wow such great townplay you're so smart

thanks, i know

hey, that was my sarcastic dig!

[Battle Mage]

hang on ill vote in a minute but you guys spammed another 10 pages

ill repost my teacher case for you and alonzo (might be hard to find in amongst menalque's posts, but we try our best!)

[Battle Mage]

man, the shelly wagon was dead in the water anyway,

IT WAS STALLED BECAUSE IT'S ON SCUM

hang on...all the wagons have stalled.

have we nailed all 3 scum?

no, we have a wagon on scum and we have multiple abortive counter wagons to that scum, first on TGP, now on teacher

curiously you forgot taylor?

I actually think Taylor might be scum tho

anyone but teacher and TGP then? how convenient.

idk what you're trying to grasp at but it looks a lot like a cylindrical hollow object one might use to drink something with

that's the drink talking

[Battle Mage]

hang on ill vote in a minute but you guys spammed another 10 pages

there's not much of value there it's BM bitching about how we should flip teacher and me insisting that we flip shelly, and datisi telling us both to stop

bit unfair - i made an actual case on teacher. you just used caps to emphasise how much you dislike shelly

[Battle Mage]

i'm cringing at the way TGP is sheeping Menalque right now. like verbatim.

want to provide examples because i disagree

pedit: taylor vote for shelly please

i thought you might disagree. i would provide examples if your protector would slow down enough for me to be able to respond to everything usefully

Last ten pages was just Mena tunneling shelly for ??? reasons, Golden boy sheeping this for ??? reasons, BM coming in and provoking everyone for ??? reasons, Datisi nicely telling everyone to stfu, and me just being here

provoking? maaaaaaaate get real

hang on ill vote in a minute but you guys spammed another 10 pages

ill repost my teacher case for you and alonzo (might be hard to find in amongst menalque's posts, but we try our best!)

bruh

you've made at least as many posts as I have this evening if not more

unlikely mate, you post more because im actually making some insightful remarks

I'm sowwy no-one wants to vote ur Likkle wagon

haha i was making fun of you two for getting in a pissing contest above but this is great content. truly.

i've literally cried laughing on several occasions. not least at the thought of people reading this bollocks tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

The teacher one is more trash obviously but I don't like the shelly one either

i dont believe you've read the teacher one, you're just saying that because you're sour at me

[Battle Mage]

Some flippant thoughts.

I knew BMs truce wouldn't last.

Menalque not for the first time joins the Expendables

I'm really struggling to scumread Taylor

Some of noraas posts are just incindiery and there's too many of them for this not to feel like a tactic of some sort

i had a truce?

i probably agree with most of this.

[Battle Mage]

is anybody else really excited for another 10 pages tomorrow of

was BM vs Menal S v T?

[Battle Mage]

unlikely mate, you post more because im actually making some insightful remarks

lololololol

my post quality here has been significantly better than yours even if I've also been shitposting in between

granted the shitposts may have put me slightly over your number of posts now I think about it

no offence, but i dont remember any quality posts from you

i made a handful i think!

[Battle Mage]

is anybody else really excited for another 10 pages tomorrow of

was BM vs Menal S v T?

if its SvT ur the scum

derp, except i'm not broooooooooooooooo

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: noraa

VOTE: noora

[Battle Mage]

at last, a consensus?

[Battle Mage]

no offence, but i dont remember any quality posts from you

you maaaay wanna lay off a little on whatever it is that's giving you short term memory loss then! it's better for your health <3

maybe it doesnt matter anyway - the important thing is, i got the most pagetops lmao

[Battle Mage]

I'm fine with killing noraa at this point

i may actually pee a little with force of laughter if noora now backtracks and votes shelly

it's a guarantee if she now just OMGUSes you

[Battle Mage]

Case on Teacher

ISO'd teacher.

Scumlean. Little output, and what's there is largely spam and fluff. Mainly focussed on easy stuff he can commentate on from the fringes without getting involved i.e. is it good to claim, should i get an avi, sometimes pointing out potential logical failings/inconsistencies without really getting excited. Frugal with the vote. Awkward jokes. Is TvS on me v Noraa, but not willing to drive an elim on either. he has suspicions, but reasoning is weak for a seemingly smart dude. picks off the LHF but doesnt do anything with it. Doesn't really seem like legit solving as his fundamental opinions don't change. claims to think I'm scum but sheeps me on Ico. No scumhunting passion. Starts with Taylor as an easy target, never diverts and jumps on as 3rd vote when taylor wagon gets momentum.

teacher scum-flip means:

Datisi and Menalque are both town (because he seemed genuinely worried about them townbinning each other)
Ico town - teacher's nominal legit townread

Vote: teacher

you BEGIN your case on teacher with the word "scumlean" and then call teacher out for what can be boiled down to "low effort and engagement" and you get precisely three interactions on a scumflip on a scumlean of all things

do you understand that this really isn't a strong case for others to vote teacher and you should maybe back off?

pedit: not even going to get annoyed by this but you're making this a pissing contest and you need to stop @bm

lol mate keep calm.

Well done for responding to the case though, it's helpful. I'm slightly alarmed by the "back off" bit? Sounds like a threat for me to not draw attention to teacher? do you know something we don't perhaps?

[Battle Mage]

its great that bm loves sheeping votes on me tho

i did it for the lulz (and cause im fine flipping you today)

[Battle Mage]

https://flic.kr/p/2jNdcYN

EPIC

I'm off to bed, thanks for the fun mate.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: shelly

do i think she'll flip scum? prolly not.
do i care? not really. this shitshow needs to end.
should you scumread me? probably, but its ok because you wont lunch me due to my role.

dude we're doing noora now, keep up!

[Battle Mage]

voting shelly now is basically starting a vanity wagon. also, did you not see my amazing teacher case?

Case on Teacher

ISO'd teacher.

Scumlean. Little output, and what's there is largely spam and fluff. Mainly focussed on easy stuff he can commentate on from the fringes without getting involved i.e. is it good to claim, should i get an avi, sometimes pointing out potential logical failings/inconsistencies without really getting excited. Frugal with the vote. Awkward jokes. Is TvS on me v Noraa, but not willing to drive an elim on either. he has suspicions, but reasoning is weak for a seemingly smart dude. picks off the LHF but doesnt do anything with it. Doesn't really seem like legit solving as his fundamental opinions don't change. claims to think I'm scum but sheeps me on Ico. No scumhunting passion. Starts with Taylor as an easy target, never diverts and jumps on as 3rd vote when taylor wagon gets momentum.

teacher scum-flip means:

Datisi and Menalque are both town (because he seemed genuinely worried about them townbinning each other)
Ico town - teacher's nominal legit townread

Vote: teacher

[Battle Mage]

for simplicity, it's Noora or Teacher today! Pick a side, you may choose both.

[Battle Mage]

ahh the irony

does this mean...what i think it means?

[Battle Mage]

ahh the irony

does this mean...what i think it means?

I have... no idea? what do you think it means?

this:

if you start pushing teacher again I'll start pushing shelly again

[Battle Mage]

work with me here. let's ignore the information from the flip itself because you're saying you actually pretty strongly believe in teacher!scum. can you explain your case on teacher!scum disregarding any information you'd get from a potential teacher!scum flip?

teacher exemplifies the scum sitting back and letting town tear each other apart. he is obviously keeping up with the game enough to be aware of who the major wagons are, and his thoughts on them always seem to be "i am aware of the case but i don't agree", and yet there is absolutely zero effort to push any alternatives.

he's also stated he thinks BM/Noraa is TvS without taking a stance on which is which or showing any particular effort to sort them

just in general there is little to no sign that he is doing anything to either a) push executions on players he thinks are scum or b) figure out who is scum.

i completely agree with this. iamausername, you are proving that

size does not matter

quality is more important than quantity.

[Battle Mage]

ahh the irony

does this mean...what i think it means?

I have... no idea? what do you think it means?

this:

if you start pushing teacher again I'll start pushing shelly again

oh, no, it meant more that I can't believe that after all that that Taylor then decided to turn up and fucking vote shelly mostly to get the thing to stop when that had already stopped

i know mate, i was only kidding that it could be the catalyst for round 2!

in some other good news, i've overtaken Ico's post count. woop woop!

[Battle Mage]

work with me here. let's ignore the information from the flip itself because you're saying you actually pretty strongly believe in teacher!scum. can you explain your case on teacher!scum disregarding any information you'd get from a potential teacher!scum flip?

teacher exemplifies the scum sitting back and letting town tear each other apart. he is obviously keeping up with the game enough to be aware of who the major wagons are, and his thoughts on them always seem to be "i am aware of the case but i don't agree", and yet there is absolutely zero effort to push any alternatives.

he's also stated he thinks BM/Noraa is TvS without taking a stance on which is which or showing any particular effort to sort them

just in general there is little to no sign that he is doing anything to either a) push executions on players he thinks are scum or b) figure out who is scum.

i really like this post for a couple reasons. it provides orders of magnitude better of a case on teacher than bm's previous case, and it feels really genuine from user's part. there are a million ways they could have simply deflected or been like "look at bm's post" and this provided a good explanation of their own reasoning. i appreciate it.

i'm not hating the case on teacher right now, but shelly seems so obviously scum to me that my vote will stay where it is.

@bm @menal are the votes on noraa serious and if so can you please explain them because i got a strong vibe of "nora is newbtown" especially from you menal?

not to underplay the iamausername case, which is high quality, but almost all of those points were also in my case. If you think there's an "orders of magnitude" difference, that confirms you haven't read them properly. You should put your personal feelings (real or feigned) aside in appraising cases to help you form or purport to form objective judgements.

Or you know you're full of it above, and just trolling me, in which case, well played.

#coachBM

On overall thoughts, I am happy elimming:

Teacher
TGP
Noora

Probably in that order of preference.

[Battle Mage]

and if your reluctance to vote a slot that would let you solve a dyad where you're supposedly confident scum is weren't so incredibly scummy, I'd be more worried about that

jokes aside, what do you actually think about TGP alignment-wise?

[Battle Mage]

Noraas agreed to read up and give us her best attempt to define the alignment indicative stuff. Let's judge her on those reads.

Noora that post should be your priority as it could be your legacy to the game.

eh fine, we back to doing teacher then?

VOTE: teacher

[Battle Mage]

On overall thoughts, I am happy elimming:

Teacher
TGP
Noora

Probably in that order of preference.

from my side this would be:

noraa
shelly
Taylor

also by order of preference

i dig it. i still wanna see that case on taylor from churros.

[Battle Mage]

I don't really want to elim teacher but will hammer anyone at L-1 to end the day

in which case I think teacher is basically at L-1 now then?

Claimtime boyo!

[Battle Mage]

i mean effectively L-1 if you assume Menal will quickhammer.

[Battle Mage]

ah so basically L-2 even with your aggressive statement of intent.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: noraa

ugh menal please go back on shelly nora is annoying but it's a policy lim at that point

nah, I think it's actually super super scummy that noraa is so avoidant here

I think her reasons for avoiding it are weak ("it's just her play style") and I think her saying "likely one scum in shelly/icon, but I don't think icon is happening today" combined with not voting there is scummy -- like if you really believe that you solve another slot by flipping one, you flip the one you can get and then work off that information. I think noraa has

excellent

scum equity with shelly and even aside from that I don't think her reluctance to be involved here is from town (if she's not partners, I think she's just afraid of limping onto a town wagon late esp with BM calling her out for that so publicly)

and if she does flip scum, she gets me the cred I need to do shelly tomorrow

you've sold me on this case. although i got newbtown vibes from noraa she isn't in fact a newbie and her post quality is deteriorating hard as she's getting pushed

pedit: @bm actually, to an extent, you're right; i was annoyed and let subjective feelings towards you get in the way of evaluating the case, and your case upon rereading was actually good, albeit a bit difficult to digest. i will say that i agreed most strongly with the first part of iamausername's case, which has parts that you don't have explicitly in your own, so that's why i said i appreciated the case so much. that being said, the order of magnitudes comment was rude and uncalled for and i apologize.

apology accepted my dude!

[Battle Mage]

yes, basically L-2 but again that's only if I can't get the votes back to do shelly

i can still make him claim right? at risk of being called a dirty rolefisher?

[Battle Mage]

I'm saying I will hammer anyone at L-1, not instahammer them

unless they claim vanilla.

Spoiler:

words can't express how terrible a philosophy that is.

[Battle Mage]

TGP can you highlight some of the posts that helped you reverse your read on BM please

there are so many that I don't think I can specifically point out a few. the fight between bm and menal really got me to a point where i stopped seeing scum!bm as a likely thing because of how hard he was fighting and then his compromise with menal at the end. i don't necessarily think i directly reversed my read on bm, but i pretty strongly believe that either the bm/menal fight was strong tvt where they were having open and loud discourse, or staged svs, and i think that the former is much more likely than the latter, especially because I TR menal very hard. i really don't see that interaction as being TvS; i feel like the scum in that pair would be strongly incentivized to simply drop it and them compromising on noraa felt very unlikely to be TvS to me.

BM broke his treaty and didn't make with the reads list.
Not exactly a stellar performance.

I'm guessing BM would be the S in that duo so far.

So I gotta see those posts

did i make a treaty about a readslist? i probably said i would do 1, but im not sure what you're saying here.

[Battle Mage]

but its ok because you wont lunch me due to my role.

this should be held accountable and if you're lying you should be punished either way.

Anything other than a confirmable town role after this declaration is unnaceptable. If it's a town VT or town weak PR I would call this bad play territory.

i hadnt spotted this, and i think it was a mistake for you to draw attention to it like this. catching her in a lie would have been great. instead you've just forced her to claim PR, and then what?

[Battle Mage]

Teacher feels like a very random spontaneous wagon

Mena has been talking about "anyone but teacher", and says Taylor is sus, but never joins Taylor wagon.

Why is this game so messed up? It's not even about me compromissing anymore, Mena it's you that doesn't want to compromisse on Taylor at all.

If you/TGP which if I remember correctly sus Taylor do come with us on her wagon, we may have a shoot on getting someone other than teacher. I don't really feel any good reason for that random teacher wagon.

what are your reasons against the teacher case? you hadnt posted them at this point.

[Battle Mage]

I"m done for tonight.

See you.

If wagons completely change again beyond my predictions I'll compromisse by the way.

I'm not compromissing on teacher though, it seems 100% a random elimination.

I'd like to see you defend this position substantively, rather than repeatedly posting:

"Noooooo, anybody but teacher, i don't understand how we could do this, please!".

Like, you've read the thread, please engage with the case at least for credibility points.

[Battle Mage]

BM i think you had a good thing going with menal for a minute there - when you alligned on noraa

it felt like there was common ground, and the game felt less divided and less shitfest :p

anyway for me to persuade you into this again?

i'm elimming teacher dude.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: BM
VOTE: BM

u deserve the lim more than anyone else here.

...if this is really all you're gonna do all game, i'm legit ok with policy elimming you today. like, what would you have done if i actually voted you?

i'm getting bad BM vibes here

really? spoiler, on this page, you appear to be making this case yourself. are you getting bad ICO vibes too?

the second best option would be Taylor but WHY would we do that when shelly has already claimed and has not gotten any townier

the whole point of getting a claim is being able to make a judgement on whether you believe it.

i asked for a claim
i got a claim
i was happy that the claim was good enough to buy her another day

that's the game buddy

more scum vibes

you got a claim that was good enough to buy another day?? it was a VT!! claim??

which possible claim would you have considered *not* good enough? Open wolf claim?

am i seriously the only person actually using the little grey cells here?

it's not just about what the claim is, but the manner and circumstances on which it is made. Please don't make me tell you how to do the very basics.

funnily enough, with as hard as BM is fighting this shellyc wagon, i'm feeling like we caught 2 of em

or, you could interpret it as it actually happened: I wanted to explore other possibilities, and Menalque desperately tried to push shellyc in an attempt to avoid a teacher wagon starting. If your takeaway from those pages was "BM defended Shelly lol", then you need to go back and read better.

if menalque is really gonna railroad town into a defeat, that's on him

ur the fucker who's fucking this gamestate up

fucking stop it

wow fk you. let me know when you've crawled out of menalque's pocket - i'll be out here fucking everything up

[Battle Mage]

can you see the sheer amount of fear scum would have if you and menalque were actually working together?

man all i see from you and others is a lot of bitching and whining in defence of teacher.

who has done nothing to warrant such a defence.

and isnt even defending himself.

You can see why I might think he is scum being carried?

[Battle Mage]

but its ok because you wont lunch me due to my role.

this should be held accountable and if you're lying you should be punished either way.

Anything other than a confirmable town role after this declaration is unnaceptable. If it's a town VT or town weak PR I would call this bad play territory.

i hadnt spotted this, and i think it was a mistake for you to draw attention to it like this. catching her in a lie would have been great. instead you've just forced her to claim PR, and then what?

i think the person who calls out the person doing the callout is likely to be scum. FoS BM here.

thats not true - if i was scum, and you were town, i'd have kept quiet and just NKed you

[Battle Mage]

wHy, iS 10O% rAndOm lyNcH

actually read the game ffs. you cuss me out for shit but you aint even trying

[Battle Mage]

Case on Teacher

ISO'd teacher.

Scumlean. Little output, and what's there is largely spam and fluff. Mainly focussed on easy stuff he can commentate on from the fringes without getting involved i.e. is it good to claim, should i get an avi, sometimes pointing out potential logical failings/inconsistencies without really getting excited. Frugal with the vote. Awkward jokes. Is TvS on me v Noraa, but not willing to drive an elim on either. he has suspicions, but reasoning is weak for a seemingly smart dude. picks off the LHF but doesnt do anything with it. Doesn't really seem like legit solving as his fundamental opinions don't change. claims to think I'm scum but sheeps me on Ico. No scumhunting passion. Starts with Taylor as an easy target, never diverts and jumps on as 3rd vote when taylor wagon gets momentum.

teacher scum-flip means:

Datisi and Menalque are both town (because he seemed genuinely worried about them townbinning each other)
Ico town - teacher's nominal legit townread

Vote: teacher

bad case, do not agree

might revisit tomorrow if needed

won't vote there today

you'll need to do better than this. at least i'm trying dude, help a brother out

BM, listen

i don't necesarilly think teacher is town, but i think he is a bad flip because there hasn't been a lot of flow around his slot, if you know what I mean? not a lot of players have defended/pushed there, nor given opinions

noraa/shellyc have been dead hot, and are giving a TON of post-flip information on top of them being good to great flips aside from that

I think it's super informative. Lots of people who have had opportunity to engage, some have done so, some haven't. but lots of focus there, and lots of data.

Also, the idea of you corralling around a Noraa flip feels a bit "vanity wagon" when the teacher wagon is the biggest.

[Battle Mage]

and if you are the N1, i promise i'll push teacher myself and have menal do the same lol

hold up, why would i be the N1?

[Battle Mage]

can you see the sheer amount of fear scum would have if you and menalque were actually working together?

man all i see from you and others is a lot of bitching and whining in defence of teacher.

who has done nothing to warrant such a defence.

and isnt even defending himself.

You can see why I might think he is scum being carried?

you realize we can't all be scum 'defending' teacher right?

and i'm not defending teacher per sé, rather pushing the thought that he is a suboptimal flip today for reasons i just stated

precisely, but i already have a good sense of who might be if he flips scum. as noted earlier - mafia is about more than just what is on the surface, it's about looking deeper.

[Battle Mage]

doesnt everyone agree the day is much more informative now, than if we ended it 20 pages ago?

yes i think so too

[Battle Mage]

have fun trying to get a flip

any flip

i mean nothing screams "trying to find a consensus" harder than choosing not to vote for ANY of the 3 major wagons.

[Battle Mage]

precisely, but i already have a good sense of who might be if he flips scum. as noted earlier - mafia is about more than just what is on the surface, it's about looking deeper.

i believe that *you* are certain teacher is a good flip, but that doesn't make it so for the rest of us

i'd always shoot noraa if i had a gun here

but

all the townies

who were/are pushing shellyc are gonna be left with little after a teacher flip - unless it literally flip scum

what do you think will happen if teacher flips town?

all the townies? that's at most like 2 people? and we dont know which 2?

i think we'll probably look at shelly and noora again tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

we wont be looking at teacher tomorrow because he'll be dead. shelly and noora feel a bit like the classic miselim bait, and im keen to buck that trend if poss and elim a more predictable scumslot - the lurker in plain sight who keeps his vote closely guarded and his suspicions plentiful and quiet. Man teacher screams scum to me.

i'm not massively townreading anybody. except Menal, and maybe Datisi. Although a lot depends on Day 1 flip I think

[Battle Mage]

2? AT MOST 2?

shellyc (5) : Menalque ; Datisi ; TheGoldenParadox ; bob3141 ; Iconeum Exe-2

and this is where taylor dropped off, so you think there's at most 2 townies in menal/datisi/GP/bob/Ico/taylor?

the only 1 of those who hasnt been around to engage with the Teacher wagon is Bob right? so 1 question mark i guess.

[Battle Mage]

here's where we're at, depressingly

alonzo - town
icon
teacher - probtown
TGP
bob - maybe town?


iaaun - nullscummy
bunno, taylor - nullscummy but probably not scum together
datisi - scumpool
BM
noraa
shelly

teacher probtown now? you didnt seem so convinced yesterday - did his posting change your mind? oh wait....

also, nothing for me? i townread you dude, need some mutual love in here

[Battle Mage]

spicy take: the team is shelly/noraa/teacher and we're all fucking idiots

im not an idiot, i knew that already. just wanted to start with the quietest one.

[Battle Mage]

alonzo have you considered that (1) your top TR is a likely compromise candidate if things go to shit and so by supporting shelly wagon you decrease the odds of your top TR dying and (2) shelly scum flipping gigantically increases your chances of flipping your top SR tomorrow, assuming that is BM who you were still voting as of last VC

Will iso shelley

i dont actually believe Alonzo thinks i'm scum, he's just doing a bit

[Battle Mage]

I'm happier about where you're voting

I'm still going to have some pretty major doubts if shelly flips scum but you're not as bad as BM in that case so *shrug*

noraaaaaa has partner equity as well, if you remember the whole 'certainly scum in ico + shellyc' ordeal

datisi probtown in my book

noraa does have partner equity, is true, but not as much as BM, maybe around the same level as Datisi

you're claiming i have partner equity with shelly?

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: shelly

there you fucking go i'm voting shelly

am i town now?

pedit: thanks dragon strongly disagree

this is not a protown capitulation

[Battle Mage]

Regardless of what Shelly flips, the logic for flipping her today is bogus. If, as people have purported, a VT claim always results in an elim going through, why would scum Shelly claim VT? The reasoning of Menalque and others is evidence that Shelly is more likely town (although I don't subscribe to that argument, and Shelly might have studied at the BM Academy of Mafia).

[Battle Mage]

Regardless of what Shelly flips, the logic for flipping her today is bogus. If, as people have purported, a VT claim always results in an elim going through, why would scum Shelly claim VT? The reasoning of Menalque and others is evidence that Shelly is more likely town (although I don't subscribe to that argument, and Shelly might have studied at the BM Academy of Mafia).

[Battle Mage]

Regardless of what Shelly flips, the logic for flipping her today is bogus. If, as people have purported, a VT claim always results in an elim going through, why would scum Shelly claim VT? The reasoning of Menalque and others is evidence that Shelly is more likely town (although I don't subscribe to that argument, and Shelly might have studied at the BM Academy of Mafia).

[Battle Mage]

oh man, my laptop had a meltdown i see

[Battle Mage]

still, a point worth making 3 times!

I'll hammer if needed I guess, but y'all are awful scumhunters for letting Teacher off the hook.

[Battle Mage]

shelly, tell me honestly if you're town here?

[Battle Mage]

if shelly /is/ VT then all we lose is VT

VTs are still members of town. i don’t really get “shelly is a vt claim lets get her"

yeah, and generally scum claim PR. and youve rolled scum enough presumably to know that.

[Battle Mage]

I don’t want to trust tell this. but I am town and will flip VT if you want to flip me today

i dont think answering a question in and of itself is a trust tell, although ive been wrong about these before.

i dont really want to flip you today but it looks like we might, and i dont hate it for the info.

[Battle Mage]

Teacher feels like a very random spontaneous wagon

Mena has been talking about "anyone but teacher", and says Taylor is sus, but never joins Taylor wagon.

Why is this game so messed up? It's not even about me compromissing anymore, Mena it's you that doesn't want to compromisse on Taylor at all.

If you/TGP which if I remember correctly sus Taylor do come with us on her wagon, we may have a shoot on getting someone other than teacher. I don't really feel any good reason for that random teacher wagon.

what are your reasons against the teacher case? you hadnt posted them at this point.

I read the case but felt like your reasons were very generic. I actually had a slightly good impression of teacher's posts. He was one of the few ones interested in Taylor in the beginning as well.

Maybe if Taylor is town I would be a bit more skeptical of him but for now I enjoy having his slot around.

you still think taylor is scum??

[Battle Mage]

da actual fuq!?

[Battle Mage]

I"m done for tonight.

See you.

If wagons completely change again beyond my predictions I'll compromisse by the way.

I'm not compromissing on teacher though, it seems 100% a random elimination.

I'd like to see you defend this position substantively, rather than repeatedly posting:

"Noooooo, anybody but teacher, i don't understand how we could do this, please!".

Like, you've read the thread, please engage with the case at least for credibility points.

I've given up on discussing on lenght the cases. I only have 30 - 60 minutes per day optimally

maybe more if the day is uneventful or I'm lazying around (which unhappily I'm in the last few days), but I don't want to discuss this because I don't see how I can change your mind easily or even at all.

I discussed Taylor for 20 pages and could only get 2 votes. Discussing is useless in many cases.

I'm explaining this for future events as well.

perhaps you were not persistent enough lol

[Battle Mage]

why is Taylor town bm

i dont know if she is? im not looking there today clearly

[Battle Mage]

i think teach has some scum equity as well

why do you insist on me despite scum reading teacher
man this makes me feel like teacher/datisi/taylor is the solve

if you think thats the solve, you must really think menal sucks huh?

[Battle Mage]

convenient 2 of your 3 scumreads are the rival wagons right?

[Battle Mage]

directed at shelly obviously.

[Battle Mage]

bunno why are all your reads revolving around Taylor associatives. this sounds like a good way to backtrack on everything if you’re scum and Taylor is actually town tbqh

No, even outside of Teacher's Taylor read I do like teacher posts, but he's one of the best scum players in this playerlist I think.

I was floored once by scum!teacher while inspecting a game. Teacher's posts are always about logical inconsistencies, which is easier to fake as scum.

I would classify Teacher together with Aster, both are difficult to read especially in the early days.

However

, I don't feel any basis for a

Teacher elim

today.

(

question

: is it "Teacher's elim" or Teacher elim"? Because it's a elimination about teacher but not a elimination owned by teacher)

if teacher is scum here, colour me underwhelmed.

[Battle Mage]

well I'll be the first one to say, I didn't expect that NK...

[Battle Mage]

Are you willing to consider Taylor tomorrow though Mena?

I guess maybe occams razor and Taylor is scum?

Must be at least 1, if not 2 scum off-wagon with that NK. Could be framing Taylor of course. But I think Taylor-town could have been a viable miselim anyway.

VOTE: Taylor

I think I'm also looking at Alonzo with that hammer, and teacher as the other rival wagon yesterday.

[Battle Mage]

does anyone know anything about torpedos?

...what?

[Battle Mage]

Taylor can you remind me why/how you thought teacher would know you were town in this game?

[Battle Mage]

dude we had 85 pages lol i wouldnt call it a rushed day, although the end was rushed yes.

[Battle Mage]

hmm ok, because we are 85 pages deep already, and I don't want loads more spam to obfuscate things, or to waste lots of time, I'm claiming:

I'm the Cop. I Investigated Taylor last night. Taylor is scum.

[Battle Mage]

ah sorry that should say "a cop". My role is limited in such a way that a second limited cop is theoretically possible. So if you're also a limited cop who thinks there might be another cop - don't counterclaim me.

[Battle Mage]

Also, just to pre-empt a few possible questions:

Yes, I did claim VT on Day 1. I....lied. Partly cause I was screwing around, and mostly because I thought it would slightly reduce the chance of me getting NKed.

Yes, I have no reason to fakeclaim here to orchestrate a mis-elim. I think I was a fairly consensus obvtown at the end of yesterday, and by claiming early, it removes any of the WIFOM of "was BM only claiming there to distract from another elim?"

No, I won't reveal any details about the way in which my role is limited - don't want to give scum any more info than necessary.

Yes, largely from a personal standpoint, I'd prefer we didn't spend a whole week toiling over this dayphase, and just elim Taylor quickly, and move on - we haven't had an issue yet with the day not being long enough for people to post reams.

[Battle Mage]

Bm if taylor is scum then my reads so far this game then i think you jinxed me after all.

As Taylor felt rather townie to me day one.

She wasn't really on my radar either, although I think she adeptly kept her cover while we all ran about like madfolk.

A re-read of her ISO, and yeah, I should have known.

[Battle Mage]

With BM being vague it realy is hard to say. If you are town as i beleived yesterday. Then either he is scum thats making a claim he can row back from. And claim oops. Or just be a fellow towny messing up.

Forgoten how many games i had to follow the rule lynch all liars. One game it caused us to lynch 2 town. Each one claimed a guility on the other. Other game scum used insider info to fake a guilty, got the player lynched and were able to row back out fo it. By claiming a gating.

I'm not going to row back. If Taylor flips town, you can elim me. If there is some shenanigans like a bus driver or whatever, then so be it. It seems unlikely to me, and if we get screwed like that, I'll eat it up.

i dont understand much of the lingo in your last bit, but defer to your brilliance. Lim all liars doesn't really work for me though - I gambit all the time.

I also don't think Taylor flipping scum confirms me as town, as I'm quite capable of bussing her in that spot too.

[Battle Mage]

don't see any reason for scum!BM to make this play, and i don't see any way this day doesn't end in a Taylor execution.

will withhold my vote for now, because it's probably worth waiting for everyone to check in before we power this through, but i don't think there's a need to draw out this day beyond that.

the only reason I think scum!BM makes this play is to bus my fellow scum!taylor to earn towncred. Although as I've got form for that, it doesn't seem like a good strategy anymore. plus it'd be a bit mean to Taylor, who on a personal level I like.

[Battle Mage]

i also dont like how BM claims and then immediately makes it so he cant be counterclaimed

I mean that's fair. I just didn't want to out another town investigative. Erring on the side of caution.

BM: are you the one who sent me a message last night?

No, I didn't send you any message last night. I assume that's literally against the rules...

Spoiler:

and as you know, i am a big advocate of following the rules

[Battle Mage]

Also, just to pre-empt a few possible questions:

Yes, I did claim VT on Day 1. I....lied. Partly cause I was screwing around, and mostly because I thought it would slightly reduce the chance of me getting NKed.

Yes, I have no reason to fakeclaim here to orchestrate a mis-elim. I think I was a fairly consensus obvtown at the end of yesterday, and by claiming early, it removes any of the WIFOM of "was BM only claiming there to distract from another elim?"

No, I won't reveal any details about the way in which my role is limited - don't want to give scum any more info than necessary.

Yes, largely from a personal standpoint, I'd prefer we didn't spend a whole week toiling over this dayphase, and just elim Taylor quickly, and move on - we haven't had an issue yet with the day not being long enough for people to post reams.

to your first point: lynch all liars
to your second: you werent consensus obvtown, and outing at this point in the day seems like an objectively bad play
third: ok
fourth: in what world is it good for town to rush through lunches? we should take our time and figure out what this means. especially since if we do rush through my lunch today you'll be on the menu tomorrow.

Points of order:

I disagree that it was objectively bad play, but neither of us are really objective in this. Others can judge. And I will continue to not care if people are mean, and play my own style.

I saw how yesterday went - a complete shitshow. Let's just elim scum and move on. These days are fking long with this active playerlist. It's not as if we are gonna be short on time tomorrow. And I want to avoid loads of rolefishing/other PRs outting/the thread getting spammed to the point we can't work out who your buddies are.

With respect, now you are outted scum, we aren't going to learn much more from your interactions today, or from others interactions with you. So let's just move on.

[Battle Mage]

Taylor can you remind me why/how you thought teacher would know you were town in this game?

meta

this, pre-claim, doesn't make me feel any worse about a teacher-taylor pairing btw.

does anyone know anything about torpedos?

what was this about?

[Battle Mage]

LaL tomorrow

what does this mean?

[Battle Mage]

I might be dead tonight - I would be grateful for some Doc-lovin' please!

[Battle Mage]

BM is claiming a cop guilty on her?

that is correct

[Battle Mage]

spicey

redirectors/bus drivers/non-sane cops are not normal, so the only way both bm/taylor are town/telling the truth is if taylor's a miller, but considering she didn't claim it day one (nor now), i'm going to big brain assume she's not one

i want to say claiming a guilty right at the start of the day is Bad Play, but last game when i was claiming a guilty, i ended up townlocking scum because of their smart fakeclaim, so who am i to talk

VOTE: taylor E-2

pedit: it means if taylor is green, you're dead tomorrow

you can have that opinion on whether it was good play - in these circumstances, I think I was definitely right to claim early. It removes any ambiguity and ultimately gets the desired end result. We lost future info potentially, but also I think we have lots to work with already.

[Battle Mage]

ye, alonzo asked me what her alignment has to do with it, i'm saying if she is green, BM is not getting out of the noose tomorrow

i know, im agreeing with you. im similarly baffled by Alonzo's question.

[Battle Mage]

Why not scan me if you're so suspicious?

i dont know who this is directed at?

also do you wanna explain where you think LAL comes in, if it isn't related to Taylor's flip?

[Battle Mage]

bonus points if someone can hammer before Menalque shows up, because his reaction at missing Day 2 would be hilarious

[Battle Mage]

night folks.

DOC - protect me tonight please, thanks.

[Battle Mage]

huh.

?

[Battle Mage]

and uh .... sorry for killing all the hybrid prs :/

lol i was glad you killed me dude. did the town a favour, i was elim-bait the next day anyway.

I'm not gonna release my notes PT, although it did explain the method behind my madness (and believe me, i put a shitton of effort into a good strategy, but it all went to shit).

I think from me it was a combo of bad play and bad luck in equal measure tbh.

I'll gratefully take the town win and bail...

[Battle Mage]

And by day 2 BM claimed a guilty on a vt so I was like this be caught scum Noraa kills BM

It's a tough call tbh. I insta townread Bm for it. It was a dirty ass move, but I don't think it was a dirty ass move *that scum would make*. Most of the times this comes from town trying a gambit or smt.

Still, it wasn't a bad vig shot.

If BM was alive after it, I would have hard defended him itt.

see, even when i shit the bed i'm obvtown lol