Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like I have answered your questions and you choose not to count it because you don't like the answers.

[Gamma Emerald]

He caught onto things that kinda made sense to notice. I figured he was trying to work with the information he had and that information led him to conclude I was scum. I wanted to let him be guided to the correct conclusion without having to force it but obviously I can't let people fucking be. Now whatever he concludes, it's not going to be a natural thought process because I had to step in and deal with it, because you wouldn't shut the fuck up about it. Once again, I'll deal with pressure on me how I want and you being so uppity about me doing so make me think you're concerned about how it makes you look by association. This part of my Blitzo scumread is 0% conjecture, it's solely based on the things he has done and what I find the motives of that to be.

This still seems kind of bad tbh. Like, he's clearly talking about stuff albeit at a snail's pace in yet he draws no conclusions about what's going on and you think pressuring him makes his answers fake?

I think force-feeding him the answers doesn't allow him to truly show his work. And I could have said that in the hood but I really didn't see why the hell you needed to know? Fourth time saying this I think, but he was pushing me for the most part, not you. So unless you were worried that the pressure on me would lead into pressure on you, which seems like scummy thing to be worried about, it should not be your problem. And yeah, I did kinda shoot myself in the foot but I was mega-spooked so I wasn't exactly thinking that extra step when I wrote out that part.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Noraa
Yeah you're contradicting yourself left and right rn so your claim better be damn good

[Gamma Emerald]

Why would you ever want to vote anyone who is even "semi semi" cleared? I know it's possible to have oopsie moments when it comes to things clearing people who look scummy, but you're clearly fully grasping what you're doing, Noraa. Even if you felt Shea was scummy that clear should make it so he's not your preferred wagon.

[Gamma Emerald]

It may be okay to sus him but it's NOT okay to have him as your preferred wagon over someone you don't have such a thing on.

[Gamma Emerald]

The whole game wasn't lurking for the entirety of D2 though. What are trying to say?

[Gamma Emerald]

My current take on Pooky is I think he’s still maybe town but I’m concerned that he hasn’t done much recently
Pretty much the only way I do end up liking Noraa’s claim is if it ends up some weird role that only slightly clears someone. There’s a couple options I could see but obviously saying them isn’t something I want to do.

[Gamma Emerald]

My best bet at TRs is all the softs that recently happened. I believe one is a lie and I think gamma's is the lie.
My TRs solely based on softs would be blitz and outworld.

You really think a post like I made where I outed the hood in order to resolve my paranoia was a scum move? If you’re Town you’re definitely not thinking straight. Who has reason to theorycraft like I was doing there? Certainly not scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Noraa can you just claim and try to lay out your thought process for us?

I like Gamma over Blitzo - he feels more straightfoward.

What did you guys talk about overnight that led to the re-conciliation on D2?

The main concern I had was that Blitzo seemed to be trying to push something I said in the hood as scummy and if that was the case the hood needed to be revealed early D2 so everyone could get what was going on. I had made the comment around the point where there was like 18 hours left in D1 that I wanted to maybe wait to post and see how people handled the oncoming deadline, but I realized soon after I wasn’t likely to be on late enough to make good on that plan, so I ditched in. Following that, Blitzo FoSed me saying I was sitting around or whatever, and I thought he might have extrapolated that idea from my comment about waiting to post to draw out hammer time. During the night phase we talked and he convinced me it was just due to things I had posted in the main thread. That’s what I reconciled. Maybe he was thinking something different.

Also I have a big problem with Blitzo saying he agreed with what UG was pushing. UG was pushing me for my interactions with Blitzo at least on some level. So if Blitzo agreed with that, I should have seen some indication he thought my interactions with him were suspicious but nothing told me that sort of thing. In fact, it seemed he felt like I was Town by some of his we interacted. And the fact it took this long to bring it up makes it seem like an afterthought more than a genuine concern.

[Gamma Emerald]

Noraa I really hope your claim is damn good

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like you should maybe wait to hear his piece too if that’s talking about the first part

[Gamma Emerald]

Alrighty then.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ve been struggling to reconcile my thoughts about how Blitzo was dealing with my mason gambit idea, because I have past experience with doing it myself and the result was scum balking at it but also calling me town for it. I felt like the way Blitzo’s confusion read was a bit incongruous with how that past scum handled things, but upon consideration I realized that past scum just had a unique perspective on that sort of risky play.
So, just on the merits of Blitzo’s own reaction, I think it kinda feels like scum who was concerned about tying themselves to me with a dangerous claim like that. Obviously the intent would never have been to pass as masons, our interactions with each other had passed into explicit suspicion at times. I tried to make it clear that I wanted to find who might be scum accepting the claim immediately, but he kept being confused, and I think it’s because he really didn’t want to make a move that would draw attention to him like that. I’m aware there might be a little confbias because of how similar the read on this is to how I’m reading his interest in me addressing UG. I feel like there is still value to this feeling, however, due to how long it’s been gnawing it me that something was up about it.

Anyway, I see UG responded to me pretty recently, and I think the response is along the lines of the response I’d hoped he’d have without my prodding if the situation. So I feel like maybe I was being stubborn over what was a moot point, though I think Blitzo’s reaction to me dodging the issue was worth more than the potential gain I saw in holding out like I did.

[Gamma Emerald]

I know what I said was more verbose than that re: the mason gambit. And while I went to fact check myself on that I also noticed you explicitly requested I refute UG’s case. Doesn’t seem like something someone who agrees with UG would say, now does it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: setting the tone

So I looked through duppin’s Noraa mentions looking for any clues I had missed and I found some interesting data.

Honestly speaking, if my presence is just making people mad for some reason you might as well just lim me off. My role isnt useful to town anyways but no I'm not scum. Im fine with flipping to give town more to work with and less to be annoyed at. Im sorry if my plays bothered people lots. I'll eat the lim if that's what town wants. Last time something like this came up, someone replaced out bc of me and I felt terrible so I'd much rather I eat the lim then end up feeling bad for making people have a terrible time.

if you are town then i dont think this is a good post to make

but i have to say i actually think the "my role isnt useful to town anyways" is a really sketchy thing to say

The nested Noraa quote is absolutely incongruous with how she is acting today. I would never call a role that could confirm a player’s alignment “useless to town”. Plus she was apparently completely okay with getting eliminated despite being a PR, which is an awful look for someone who had led a town to a win as JKer. The lies end here.

[Gamma Emerald]

I must be dreaming rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m at the point where a claim isn’t going to make me waver on wanting Noraa yeeted anymore. Either she’s scum here or she pulled a Tywin with her PR handling.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh. OH. Yeah, that checks out. And I understand why you were saying you could confirm an alignment, you basically just wanted to get NKed. I know I said a claim wouldn’t impact my thinking but that definitely falls into that set of roles that made sense for slightly twining someone but not enough to not prefer voting them.
VOTE: Blitzo
Since a lot of people have expressed interest in this and it’s almost deadline I’ll vote here but I can also vote OWER

[Gamma Emerald]

I've never heard of something like that.
Is that something that MS has or no?

I honestly have no idea.

It was pretty recently made normal, it’s pretty much a null role
Though back in the days of the greylist I played a normal game with a role called a pinger that was sorta like a loud checker
I remember tunneling the player who was the pinger in that game because he was trying to hint an action on me and I wasn’t sure what he was talking about. So I’m inclined to show mercy to Noraa because of that alone.

[Gamma Emerald]

I love being conftown.
being conftown = u can be scummy af and no one can do nothin

They’ll still get pissy at you and not want to listen to your reads though. I have experience with this due to being IC in a game that ended up getting canceled because the mod was a flakey flaker who flakes

[Gamma Emerald]

But yeah that claim is so underwhelming it crosses the line twice and becomes never-scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Also lol Noraas reaction of "SOOOO I'm conftown????" off a role that literally can be scum.

(and is probably more powerful as a scum role also)

Do you not think scum!Noraa would have tried to lean the other direction and claim a role so powerful town would be afraid to yeet her despite how scummy she is? Plus her stating that she was trying to soft tracker feels quite in line with how she’d been behaving.

[Gamma Emerald]

NM will you vote Bulge y/n

[Gamma Emerald]

Panzer was in the same bracket as Bulge in Shea’s reads

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Panzer
Dude clearly isn’t solving, just hopping on whatever’s easy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Trying to seek a compromise and Blitzo, while seemingly popular, is not likely to be the favorable vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I’d do it but others don’t seem to be willing

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't understand why I'm being voted.

I generally understand why but the nitty-gritty what part is something the other people probably need to speak up on.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma feels very transparent and townie and I don't think Gamma takes this line of play if he's scum with a Town!Blitzo

There’s no reason to think Town!Gamma = Scum!Blitzo though? Assuming a neighbor has to be scum is a bit of a logical leap. Do you think Blitzo’s play around me feels scummy?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma I actually don't think you really have much of an excuse to be voting me anymore so if you could just not sweep that under the rug again that'd be awesome.

I think I am not using an excuse to vote you. While I thought you might be partners with Noraa I’ve felt your play throughout the game has been suspicious at multiple times, and after I wrote all of it out while outing the hood I pretty much realized “this is actually a lot of evidence I’m looking at”.
I thought your entry into the game was suspect, I’ve had to fight tooth and nail to get you to post content in the hood several times, including him going pretty damn quiet after I posted the Noraa meta wall (his posts past then were just apologizing for being away, prodding me to deal with the UG case again, and discussing town power level, as well as one empty reaction post close after I outed the hood, which I find interesting given his previous slow-feeling response times). There was definitely content to discuss, such as what I told you about my feelings on the NK after I wasn’t limited by ongoing game rules, but your content at that point was very surface-level.
There’s also the part where you had written me off as town apparently, back towards early-mid D1. If you’d truly thought I was Town because we were neighbors, why was there no greater attempt from you to try and make use of the hood early on? If you thought I was guaranteed Town the hood was a masonry in all but name, no? Despite that I absolutely was driving the early talk.
And then obviously there’s the things I’ve already talked on regarding your handling of the UG case on me and your inability to grasp my mason gambit idea, which I feel like I’ve been pretty clear on by now, but you seem to be claiming I’m not. That’s actually a common thread I noticed after checking the hood contents in full again, because you also accused Shea of dodging your questions when he wasn’t. In addition I had a point where I felt it ironic you’d called Shea on that but also got semantic with Noraa over whether you were avoiding solving her, maybe that was an actual scumtell I failed to grasp at the time?

[Gamma Emerald]

Phone posting on the road but lol people jumping off of Noraa's wagon because of that claim. She literally goes from claiming that she will have "very close to confscum" if she lives one night to claiming a role that is one of the weakest investigative roles in the role game which is literally incapable of discerning alignment without a fair bit of very particular information.

She is just straight up lying, claiming that she has a useful role in one breath and then claiming it's useless in another.

Those jumping off her wagon are even scummier though. It's theoretically possible that she's just a village idiot and the scum don't want to push a mislim too hard, but it's literally not possible for anyone to actually believe that claim.

Except it makes perfect sense when you consider her role was practically worthless and she was trying to NK bait. Scum would have tried to scare town away from voting out a potentially useful PR, but she claimed something super-meager. Plus the fact she claims to have been trying to soft tracker makes sense as a town!Noraa move and also lines up with how she was claiming to be able to get confscum despite not getting a result on Shea that meant much (the idea would have been that she was trying to indicate a no action result on Shea, which does lean a person town without making them really unwanted as a vote).

[Gamma Emerald]

She tried to hint at some sort of power when she was softing, but that goes into the fake tracker softing bit. I also tried to make her more antsy by acting like I was going to almost always condemn her, in order to make her feel pressured to impress me. Instead she claims the most ineffective power role possible, and one that’s honestly ridiculous to fakeclaim as scum because of how ridiculously underpowered it is, how much of a niche role it is, and the fact it was only recently made normal. Thus I think if she were scum it still has to be her role, and the only proper utility I can see in a scum checker is to determine if the person was roleblocked while trying to do the kill, but that only works if she’s multitasking, and I think if that were the case, I don’t know exactly what, but her play around her role would have probably differed somehow.

Her play makes little sense as town, but it makes absolutely no sense as scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

I definitely agree with that sense of the wagon being super easy
Anyone you want to name for that now?

[Gamma Emerald]

Outworld needs to claim imo

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh if it’s Shea!scum and we vote him out for not being the NK either night I’m gonna lmfao
And I really don’t see how one more day changes anything regarding OWER, unless there’s something they wanna keep under wraps
And I think we could just massclaim to avert that chance entirely

[Gamma Emerald]

Day 4 innocent child is literally the joke claim you make in response to someone else's outlandish fakeclaim

Or if you’re Kokichi Oma with a confirmable role rofl

[Gamma Emerald]

OWER softed PR d2 and I figured with 2 flipped town PRs and there also being the neighborhood, it would be good to get a hard claim today

[Gamma Emerald]

I have to be honest that I've just kind of lost interest in the game. I've considered replacing out but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'd rather just die tbh even though I should probably give more of a shit considering my role

Here. This actually makes sense given the exact claim at least.

I kinda wanna vote bulge rn, he's seemed consistently sus, and came out quite strong today so his death is gonna probably put a few things solidly in place if he's scum

anyway, what is the thoughts on massclaim? We are in limlo-1 rn so it's the best scenario to do it probably

[Gamma Emerald]

Also does someone have a not_mafia scum game they know off the top of their head so I can take a look at it?

If not I'll just dive his posts myself.

He actually just finished one, and it was kinda similar to this one

[Gamma Emerald]

Also does someone have a not_mafia scum game they know off the top of their head so I can take a look at it?

If not I'll just dive his posts myself.

He actually just finished one, and it was kinda similar to this one

Which one is it?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84322

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=83926
btw I think I should also link a NM town game, while he was still ineffectual it wasn't in a way that directly felt like he was a malefactor

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like NM’s pushes and general play this game seem more like how he was in the normal vs. the theme game, with how he seems vaguely workable but isn’t actually being reasonable
In the other game his motives were super-abstract but it didn’t feel like he was keeping that same facade of being somewhat talkable-to

As for those other 2, Panzer I still distrust but I need to review flips and see where I think he stands given them. Pooky I still think is town meta-wise because my gut hasn’t been proven wrong yet I think, but just generally I’m a bit leery of

[Gamma Emerald]

NM has also had high-effort games as scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think at least within those two low effort games cited, NM’s play more resembles his play in the scum game vs. the town game.

[Gamma Emerald]

is blitzo doing anything interesting in the neighborhoood?

We both have posted nothing since Blitzo’s post reacting to me outing it. If I determine Blitzo’s NKA has a kernel of truth to it, I’m inclined to start posting there again.

[Gamma Emerald]

I also agree with kasu that N_Ms posting in that game doesnt really match his posting this game.

In which game

[Gamma Emerald]

I can see that. Honestly NM isn’t where I want to look primarily today anyway

[Gamma Emerald]

Blitzo is anong my preferred votes but I think voting him out does less to solve the game rn than voting out Bulge or Shea
Open to discussing this though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do we "gotta do it"?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I might have started turning to gears to put this game on the right track. The Eye of Obscurity is opened wide.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't want any hammers anytime soon jsyk

[Gamma Emerald]

I did forget Panzer was in the same bracket of contribution as NM despite posting more lmfao

[Gamma Emerald]

I have things I need to look at. I’m not voting until I figure it the fuck out.

[Gamma Emerald]

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS AN IC POST
is anyone reading this game holy fuck

Okay I didn’t see it when you said it before but I see THAT

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is an IC okay with being limmed?

[Gamma Emerald]

If their role wasn’t useful
IC seems useful though, no?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well yeah that’s essentially what I’m saying...?

[Gamma Emerald]

Blitso did post about thinking that was the type of kill scum were going for on duppin as well start of D2

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma - I've been suspicious of panzer for an extremely long period of time and think he is also mafia. What's to be confused about?

But WHY have you been suspicious of Pooky? I'm open to being convinced, you just need to DO IT.

[Gamma Emerald]

lol what a mistype/misread combo

[Gamma Emerald]

and scum cannot have a vig power in a normal, no

[Gamma Emerald]

Shea, what was it Ranmaru praised me on in the postgame of TM white flag?

[Gamma Emerald]

Worth a shot, I'll check it myself later

[Gamma Emerald]

I still fail to see how waiting until tomorrow on OWER hurts things (except one idea I don't wanna mention yet)

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Pooky
My thoughts here are pretty messy so I’ll just state what I feel I can articulate best.

So I had already felt like there was something fishy with the wagons D1, but upon a closer inspection the development was nowhere close to what I initially perceived it as. Noraa and Panzer has like no real wagon on them, just a couple votes. So the key wagons were Pooky and MCat D1. If I’m thinking the MCat wagon was in response to there being one on scum, that seems to point to Pooky.

Now, while I had been meta reading Pooky as town, I’ve also recently had a game where I townread a scum for meta reasons, and while I was less willing to fight the wagon on them towards the time they were limmed, I never really had a full turnaround in how I saw them. It was actually the NM scumgame I had linked earlier today, btw. Here I’d already had a moment of doubt when I agreed with what MCat was seeing. Compare that to the Boardgames mini that also finished recently, where I was hard up about defending Creature with my dying breath, and I ended up being right. I think I need to hone in on those moments of doubt, as that’s where I can rip a hole in any pockets I might be trapped in. I also was right about some gut suspicions on Pooky there, in a way that made me feel like my townread on him here was dissonant. As such I think there’s a bit of a convergence of my meta practices that are pointing to Pooky being scum this game.

I also went over those reasons MCat gave again as well as recently going back into the hood and asking Blitzo to provide his perception of things. I feel like the reasons those two provided mesh up pretty well to provide a picture where Pooky has been asking X question and responding in Y way that doesn’t really line up with the question he was asking. I don’t want to take credit for this push, so probably just read this post and these posts to get an idea of what I find suspect about Pooky.
To provide a perspective that is a bit more “me”, you remember my handling of UG where I wanted to give him the chance to notice how my personal situation helped to add proper context to what was bothering him about me? Pooky

also

had a chance to do that since he had pressed Blitzo for weird interactions with me. But what did he do when the hood was claimed? He tried to continue to push Blitzo for the reasoning that “Blitzo red flip clears Gamma”, which while an okay sentiment on paper, is a garbage approach and one I think NM at least will also agree is a garbage approach, since I was told by NM in his recent scumgame that he doesn’t like using hoods because of the way people try to hunt them like there’s supposed to be X amount of scum in a hood. That’s exactly what Pooky is doing, pressing Blitzo as scum in the hood just because of some expectation that scum “should” be in it. Which is not really a strong thought process when you’re handling a two-person hood, just because the odds of the hood having a scum are lower. But Pooky tries to blindly push the hood as a reason Blitzo is scum, rather than recalibrating his Blitzo thoughts with the realization that his interactions with me are explained by the hood.

[Gamma Emerald]

Re-assessment of D1 wagon development makes you way more suspect (which btw I have something to expand on that with)

I think you’re scummy by meta despite the general feeling up to now being Town because a) I had similar doubts on you to the doubts I felt on Alchemist in the Dog Show normal that finished recently, Alch flipped scum. In addition I stuck to my guns on my Creature meta townread in Boardgames and ended up being right, so I think the general theme is the doubts I had on Alch and you = I am wrongly meta TRing scum. Additionally from the Boardgames normal, b) I felt like my townread on you was dissonant almost out of the gate because of my gut scumpings on you from that game, so the feelings from that game also point to you being scum here since I had trouble all along trying to make a sensible difference in the two games to read you differently in each

I heavily dislike how you handled Blitzo post-hood claim. You should have tried to figure out how the hood being outed altered your read math on Blitzo, but instead you pulled out a bad faith push where you wanted to yeet Blitzo for “being scum in the hood”, when a 2 person hood has nowhere near the same expectation of scum presence as a 3+ person hood, and even then I think assuming scum in a hood in general isn’t great play.

[Gamma Emerald]

Anything else is not my own raw thoughts so it would be better to go to the source probably

[Gamma Emerald]

So I couldn’t find Ranmaru’s actual full feedback from TM white flag, but this snippet very heavily relates to how I’ve been playing this game.

Also, again, I want you to focus more on individual play and behavioral analysis, vote analysis, rather then solely looking at wagon stalls. Again, the stall was a town stall, not a scum stall.

Back during D1, I had balked at the fact Pooky had gotten 4 votes after Noraa had been voted by me and Shea. That pretty much made me unworkable for a long time when it came to convincing me of Pooky!scum. Now that I’ve dialed down the confbias, I see now that I seem to have had that same sort of poor play of looking at a wagon stall and assuming it to be scum driven. I think the Pooky voters from D1 (OWER, Blitzo, MCat, and Kasumeat) were probably all town given how this seems to have become history repeating itself. Plus I think a Pooky scumflip clears both Blitzo and Kasu, and OWER can be mechsolved by tomorrow.

[Gamma Emerald]

Pooky greenflip means Blitzo needs to be looked over super-closely because he’s pretty pivotal to some things so if he’s wrong on you he might also be wrong on other parts of the game which at that make him quite probably scum
This is definitely a game where the amount of suspects far outweighs the amount of opportunities we have to handle them. If there’s a way to shortcut the process I’m gonna take interest in it. If you have an alternative elimination option that has equal or greater impact on how others look on their flip, I’d be glad to hear who it is and why.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I already mentioned this, but his thought process on suspecting gamestate preservation is consistent between day phases. Day 2 he asked me in the hood if I thought the duppin kill was to preserve the gamestate, to which I replied “yes” because I felt like the Noraa meta thing I was thinking of fell under that umbrella, where Noraa’s team killed duppin to prevent duppin from condemning Noraa once MadiaSunny ended. Honestly I really want to know what the fuck duppin was seeing in this game btw since Noraa was town here and I don’t recall them having any OTHER games together that would result in that sort of thing where duppin would have to stay mum about it. But that’s something I should probably reflect on for a bit privately as well.
Anyway, following that there is now his D3 entry where he felt like UG’a kill was gamestate preservation, which does bother me a little that he’s so eager to ascribe a motive to it but it’s not an inconsistent thought for him. I also like how he’s trying to be a bit more critical of Shea based on that speculation, in a way that doesn’t seem to much like he’s trying to shade Shea.

[Gamma Emerald]

Making sure no one starts asking questions scum don’t want asked
Which now that I think about it, I don’t see how a UG kill does that? Like, duppin was definitely a Noraa setup, but what does killing UG accomplish? The only direct motive I can see for killing UG scares the daylights out of me so I don’t want to legitimately consider it rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Checker ain’t really investigative, it’s like a fruit vendor
Ignoring that though, Blitzo isn’t really hard stating Shea as scum, which while maybe a bit shady, it doesn’t seem malicious just yet. He’s primarily saying we should look at Shea while we’ve still got that elbow room to make a mistake, I feel.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wouldn’t scum!Blitzo have that knowledge though tbh? Why make a stink about it? I think he’s causing too much of a scene to really conceivably be scum for it rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I just reread NM and his reads so far seem like full on doodoo

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the thought is more “why UG of all people?”

[Gamma Emerald]

there's other stuff too that gamma mentioned - like the way you latched on to the anti-Gamma case which mostly centered on his shift in relation with you - despite knowing that the shift was due to your overnight convo in the neighborhood.

That part is super shady af.

there's other stuff too that gamma mentioned - like the way you latched on to the anti-Gamma case which mostly centered on his shift in relation with you - despite knowing that the shift was due to your overnight convo in the neighborhood.

That part is super shady af.

This seems super dissonant given Pooky was seeing the same sort of things UG was seeing from me, but from Blitzo instead
Either Pooky is extremely bad at being self-aware or he’s scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I think we need to reassess the fact that the reason this game might be so confusing is because TSQ is actually scum - there's pretty much no reason to kill UG over him and that really needs to be looked into.

No this quote mentions specifically that there is no reason to kill UG over TSQ - it's comparative. The implication is that TSQ is alive because he's scum no?

I’m not sure. But I don’t think it’s enough to be worth limming Blitzo over. While it’s not a sensible thing to say it’s also not really something that pings me as scum rather than just town who’s trying to solve but not doing a great job of it. A lot of what you’re pressing Blitzo for comes off as that tbh.

The double quote was a site glitch, I know it exists but still run afoul of it a ton. Dissonant means the thought doesn’t match up with what other thoughts you’ve had. I feel like you pressing Blitzo on that without first checking your own self about Blitzo’s interactions with me seems a bit out-of-turn

[Gamma Emerald]

You’d already stated a curiosity as to why Blitzo and I had interacted the way we did SoD2. Despite that, I can’t really find any thought process to how the hood reveal actually impacted anything for you there. It just looks like you only posted that as a route to suspect Blitzo rather than a genuine thought process.

[Gamma Emerald]

Blitzo’s EOD spat with Gamma Emerald also seems to have randomly disappeared – like why ? I don’t really get it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Another thing I want to point out is both Pooky and Blitzo have had a trend of missing the point of what is being said a lot, but with Blitzo it feels like genuine confusion due to being out of practice, while the way Pooky asks the questions constantly and doesn’t seem to ever really get much out of it just seems like scum trying to play up an inquisitive nature but lacking real follow-through.

[Gamma Emerald]

Blitzo wasn’t aware of the entirety of the ongoing meta situation I was working with. So he still had some things that he wasn’t fully in on wrt my thinking. We also were pretty reluctant to out the hood up until I went full paranoia, so that may have been a factor in how Blitzo chose to handle things. As for asking about reads on me, Idk what’s up with that. Maybe ask him? I think a lot of our interaction has been you trying to feed me questions you should be asking him, as he can provide a clearer picture of his intent and thought process.
Anyway, it seems you neglected to explain your own behavior in your rush to continue pressing your Blitzo!scum angle. Neither your defense nor your offense is really convincing me you mean well here. If you’re going to press someone else, I want to see you actually tell me how their elimination sorts which slots on their scum or town flip. If you’re going to defend yourself, I want you to actually respond to the direct thing I am pressing rather than deflecting it back to Blitzo in some way.

[Gamma Emerald]

Town thought processes hardly make sense most of the time, dude. Go back and read Noraa’s posting and tell me I’m wrong (no offense).

[Gamma Emerald]

I just double checked hood posts and Blitzo has thought Shea might be scum on some level since mid D1
So that’s kinda going for him, though I want to ask @Blitzo why Shea should have been killed either night?

[Gamma Emerald]

I did more review and the Shea suspicions go back to the very beginning of the game, but he only started publicizing them around the time the hood was aired out. His concerns have to do with his lackadaisical Shea’s reads seem and how Shea hasn’t seemed as confrontational (IDK if this is the best word) as Blitzo would expect from him.

One thing I should mention btw lol
When thinking about it alongside the fact he forgot what IC was, the “forgetting scum can be in hoods” thing reads a LOT more genuine

[Gamma Emerald]

That thought was back during D1 when I still had to essentially pull teeth to interact with him much in there
Wdym where tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Playing mafia is really not the place to let my Eye of Obscurity take it slow

[Gamma Emerald]

He only townslipped about scum not being in hoods in the hood
I don’t recall him townslipping about anything in-thread

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw he also tried to follow up on his attempts to genuinely sort me he wanted to do after that realization during N1

[Gamma Emerald]

Panzer what are your reads on all the slots rn? This is critical

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Panzer
His scum pools D1 sucked, he’s refused to explain anything and everything at every juncture, and used excuses to get away with it to boot, he has the same level on contributions as NM despite looking better on the surface, and slightly more posts

Subject: Open 657: JK9++ (Game over)

Gamma Emerald:

"HOLY SHIT THIS IS THE SCUM CAN'T YOU GUYS SEE IT?!?!"

FYI I’m still gonna be playing with the assumption that the D1 Pooky wagon was town since that just feels right based on how I tilted at it when it happened

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I’m officially getting pissed off with how no one is fucking trying to solve the game except me apparently.

[Gamma Emerald]

to be fair a lot of the town is tied up in stupid arguments while the actual scum are most likely lurking and coasting

How could you possibly know this? Like my problem isn't with the statement that scum could be the lurkers, my problem is with certainty of this statement.

I think it’s more of a gamestate read, and it’s one I agree with rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I think OWER might just write their thoughts like that tbh
I’ll spare my reasoning until OWER gives sufficient input on the subject

[Gamma Emerald]

I was 99% sure on Noraa back when I made the meta connections post

Anyway, since you’re so confident, what is your solve, OWER?

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think the D1 Pooky wagon was all-town 100% of the time, here?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is Blitzo mentioned there

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, what exactly happened in your exchange with Pooky (or out of it I suppose) that made you move your vote from Pooky to Panzer?

I felt like I’d gotten what I needed at that point when it came to interacting with Pooky. Pooky had conceded on Blitzo, so I felt like giving the guy a break. And I had, as I believe I said in the post where I voted him, reread Panzer and felt like his play has not been towny by a single iota.
I do like that you’re asking btw. I wasn’t a fan of you D1 but it was for reasons that are only weakly scum indicative, which was how self-centered your play felt at the time. Your last post has none of that and is a really good post because of it, I feel.

And yeah NM has expressed explicit interest in voting out Panzer so best not to tempt fate.

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly the one thing that would make me not as bothered by how NM plays when it comes to quickhammers is if he would be clear about all of his reads, as you can essentially VCA him as on any wagon he has a scumread on, which makes him more readable but also provides a good map to which wagons can and cannot be put to L-1 safely

[Gamma Emerald]

my gut is just screaming that its bulge.

I can see that too somewhat
I know you had issues with how he sheeped you early on, can you talk about whatever else is going into that read rq?

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you okay with the possibility of Panzer being yeeted today over bulge? Why or why not?

[Gamma Emerald]

I can see low effort being town, but scum seem quite content to let town eat itself alive. I think bulge himself isn’t exactly high activity either. And Panzer has added nothing of real worth to the game imo, his reads are wack and he has never bothered to explain jack about shit. He’s not even low effort, he’s no effort, at least in what I think counts.

[Gamma Emerald]

I still fail to see how waiting until tomorrow on OWER hurts things (except one idea I don't wanna mention yet)

what are you waiting for before mentioning the other possibility?

The only way I see myself bringing it up is if a massclaim happens today.

[Gamma Emerald]

I do think there are more Town roles, actually. At least 2 is where I’m kinda at.

[Gamma Emerald]

Because if there’s a mechanical guilty that creates a one-or-the-other situation it’s best to get it out before we are in do-or-die time

[Gamma Emerald]

Mechanical guilties don’t always arise from things that are evident without being pressed.

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever. These things I’m saying aren’t just for show, they’re beliefs I’ve held for a decent amount of my time playing this game. I can provide an instance where town had to resolve a guilty result in ExLo and when I was experiencing it from the dead thread it was super-intense to watch. I’d prefer to avoid a nail-biting situation like that, mkay?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not really trying to suggest what I think may or may not exist here, outside of raw numbers.
PEdit: I use a FUCKTON of meta anecdotes mate
I used to feel guilty about it but I’ve recently accepted it as a part of my play that is uniquely me
(Which obviously means whenever I do secret alts I can’t exactly do that)

[Gamma Emerald]

We 100% should massclaim. Bulge and Shea hit the point I wanted to avoid in their talks so I think there’s no reason not to massclaim

[Gamma Emerald]

Town genuinely deserves to lose if we don't elim Outworld today

There are many things town might “deserve to lose” over that have happened so far
That would not be among them

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe if you actually did shit to explain yourself I’d see it that way

[Gamma Emerald]

Not e-fucking-nough

[Gamma Emerald]

You took this same tone in Dog Show Champions and were scum there. You wanna press your fucking luck?

[Gamma Emerald]

Meh, we have a scumbutt serving himself up on a silver platter, if you want to elim me instead then that one's on you

I'd rather elim Panzer

[Gamma Emerald]

I am honestly confused why OWER thinks being confirmed kills the associative points on bulge

[Gamma Emerald]

Despite having professed an insane amount of confidence, NM still isn't voting OWER
If we're not gonna massclaim today I'm good with putting Panzer to L-1 right now

[Gamma Emerald]

That was a Day 2 massclaim that ignored the fact that doing so gave scum a giant hole to fly through
Here I don't think scum has anything in particular that would offer them that sort of ez pass, and we're also in limlo-1, which is a better place to massclaim than limlo, because a direct CC in limlo can't be properly culled.

[Gamma Emerald]

nope. I would love for it to be outworld but sadly I'm not a dayvig. changing my vote doesn't mean shit.

here's a hint at my townplay "nuance": I've known for a long time I wouldn't get my wagon today.

trying to frame this as a shift of momentum tho is just LMAO

Why were you pushing it for so long then
Looks you’re playing for show

[Gamma Emerald]

We 100% should massclaim. Bulge and Shea hit the point I wanted to avoid in their talks so I think there’s no reason not to massclaim

There's no reason to massclaim.

That was a Day 2 massclaim that ignored the fact that doing so gave scum a giant hole to fly through
Here I don't think scum has anything in particular that would offer them that sort of ez pass, and we're also in limlo-1, which is a better place to massclaim than limlo, because a direct CC in limlo can't be properly culled.

uhhhhh what gives you that impression? we have zero information on what scum has

Because nothing that’s been revealed by the mod would be something I’d think would give scum that ability to walk by
It’s not a guarantee but I really feel like it’s better to do it now.

In return, I have a question for you. If we don’t massclaim now and we end up with a 1v1 CC in limlo, what the hell is your plan in that scenario

[Gamma Emerald]

Nothing
But that’s exactly why I expect scum don’t have any free pass claims

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I can PoE scum down a fair amount of all the claims seem sensible

[Gamma Emerald]

My best reasons are best kept secret until after it happens. That’s all I’ll say.
As for my SRs, nothing fucking “happened” to them? I’m still voting Panzer, no??? And what the fuck does that have to do with the existing discussion?

[Gamma Emerald]

we need to find SOMETHING to agree on and it seems like it's Panzer
someone just fucking vote panzer

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma we're not done. what was your plan with the massclaim

Ultimately? Figuring out whether OWER might make sense to yeet today. That’s the LAST I will say about it, hopefully it’s enough for you to support it. You’re like the only active naysayer and this should convince you to can it at least.

[Gamma Emerald]

Kasu do you mind voting Panzer? If the massclaim isn’t happening I think we just yeet panzer atp

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: @NM

[Gamma Emerald]

ok so im thinking scum are mainly among those who believed the claim because i stand by what i say that was not IC play.

@Blitzo here’s a concrete example of what the mason gambit would have been meant to accomplish

[Gamma Emerald]

While OWER was still a question mark was the key time where I wanted to press massclaim but didn’t feel good discussing my reasons
I’m still feeling a bit cagey but I’m not as strongly for a massclaim now. Tbh I think I already know who the scum are so the only thing keeping mum about things does is make it possible to get a sure read on a scum. So if enough people want to know, I’ll disclose my secret reason for wanting a massclaim yesterday.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not until it happens. Once it does I’ll 100% explain.

[Gamma Emerald]

lol

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it’s pretty clear Blitzo isn’t claiming any additional role parts

I’m also going to take this chance to say I also lack additional role parts, and I now pass the popcorn ball to Pooky

[Gamma Emerald]

:/

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm a loyal jailkeeper. targeted pooky n1 for reasons I can't recall because i crumbed panzer. outworld n2 to check the softclaim. kasu n3 should clear him because there was no reason to nk.

OH. So my speculation was probably way fucking off about potential scum roles.

[Gamma Emerald]

I haven't reread yet but im pretty sure nm is the remaining town.

Why?
I have a particular picture in my head on what the scum team probably resembles, NM could be either alignment in it but I think Blitzo and Kasu are hard town through it
But I’m not in the mood to drive things rn unless I don’t think anyone else is gonna strike true by doing so

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma explain yourself in next post.

Alright
So I had an inkling we had one more town PR in the setup, but I also felt like even with what I felt might fit the town could feel underpowered. I also thought scum might have a tracker based on Noraa’s flip and UG being NKed N2. This was also the one role I felt like OWER could be as scum that would merit the next-day IC claim (or another investigation role but the speculation leaned to tracker with Noraa’s flip). What I wanted to do was have the real PR claim and then try to suggest town might be underpowered still to bait a PR claim from scum, hopefully trying to true claim the role I suspected they had, and I could slam them with my setup speculation. Blitzo can back me up on this.
Now that I have seen Bulge’s claim, I’m less convinced about my speculation. I could still be right, but Bulge’s role literally perfectly explains the existence of Noraa’s role by itself as a potential town confirmation, so there’s less reason to think Noraa’s role existed to be a false tracker positive.

I think this effectively addresses the eccentricities of my desire to massclaim D3.

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought he'd be the nk and I was right? lol

I don’t think I spoke of it to Blitzo at all but that felt like the kill choice from a scumteam that killed duppin N1 and UG N2. Idk if there’s any underlying thread connecting those three that could be used to locate scum, but they all fell under a blanket category of players who were somewhat less active but still towny voices (idr any of the kill choices being widely SRed by the time they were killed are attempted to be killed).
Essentially, I had the same feeling as you, so I commend you for it.

[Gamma Emerald]

my role is the only reason noraa's makes any sense at all in this setup

I wonder if it's just pooky and shea in the scum pt rn panicking about how they jumped the gun and ignored this fact and don't know where to pivot the push from here, or if the third partner is lurking there too

Unless Blitzo is marinating me real hard rn I think it’s just Pooky + Shea + NM
NM is the one I could most see being wrong in that but I feel pretty strongly about Blitzo being town, and Bulge/OWER/Kasu are all conftown, because if Bulge is somehow scum then the role Noraa’s role was meant to interact with was on the scum side, in which case I think the setup winds up scumsided beyond what I think would logically pass. So if I have faith in Blitzo the game solves itself.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm only certain in sheascum until I reread and I have been townreading you most of the game. but blitzo/gamma scum would be ballsy (not that I'm at all discounting the possibility of that team) and the gamestate right now fmpov is not looking good for you either

Me and Blitzo have had a rollercoaster of interactions. Doing what we did, as scum together, might as well be throwing, because it draws way to much attention. Why do I attempt to throw Blitzo under the bus D2 by screaming he is feeding lines to Noraa? That is insanity. To think one of us is scum is possibly reasonable if you ignore certain things. To suggest we both are is lunacy.

[Gamma Emerald]

And that’s indicative of anything HOW?

[Gamma Emerald]

are you slipping that both neighbours are town?

the neighbors are town-reading each other and high-influence slots - you really think scum doesn't shoot there and shoots Katsu of all people?

Scum have never shot in the “high influence” pool. Probably because Shea’s scum and didn’t want to be outed that way.

[Gamma Emerald]

I believe Bulge’s claim cos it has synergy with checker, you don’t put a checker in a set up without roles that can fail.

Welcome to the club. Mind digging a little deeper?

[Gamma Emerald]

I would prefer you try to do something if you’re town given you spent the entire game pushing the IC for the most part.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well I was TRing OWER early :/
And regardless of how you feel about that, you were wrong so you need to show you weren’t merely bullshitting in order for me to trust you

[Gamma Emerald]

My PoE is down to 4
If you’re town, making that clear puts the game in auto for me

[Gamma Emerald]

yea im sure the mod was thinking hmm the town looks kinda powered up - let me nerf the neopolitian by adding another PR...

so every1 believes we had an IC, Neo, Checker who could be confirmed, neighbors and Jailkeeper too

w i l d

IC Checker and Neap are conf’ed
If Bulge’s role isn’t town the role to interact with checker is a scum role which imo scumsides the setup
Neighbors are conf to exist unless you think me and Blitzo are insane enough to interact with each other the way we have all game, though a scum-town hood isn’t out of the question
Everyone has claimed at this point so unless you can SOMEHOW explain why 2 goons + unknown tracking/blocking scum role doesn’t overpower a town with an IC, Neap, Checker and either a T-T or T-S hood I’m not limming Bulge ever

It’s also pretty telling who is trying to deny Bulge’s conftown status.

[Gamma Emerald]

This game probably gets my full attention soon. No guarantee if or when but I can feel it

[Gamma Emerald]

We don’t know scum power though
Although I’m guessing they’re quite weak given recent developments

[Gamma Emerald]

A lack of any town blocking/tracking role also makes no sense

[Gamma Emerald]

And I still hate Gamma's earlier posts that look like has scum slips

What the actual fuck? No word in “his scum slips” sounds okay to me. What the hell are you talking about?

[Gamma Emerald]

So I “scum slipped” by thinking MCat’s Pooky case sounded decent and seeing Noraa’s claim for what it was? How are those slips at all? I could see you calling that scummy nothing was “slipped” in the slightest.
I was not convinced MCat was scum before his lim, so the fact I treated him like he could be town means nothing. Obviously if MCat flipped scum I would have to take the case with a grain of salt.
As for Noraa’s claim, I had seen her get cold feet on fakeclaiming PR as VT in another game so I understood how her signals on softing could be a little wonky. And despite me making it clear I had a high bar for the claim, she claimed a super weak role. That is not a move I see newbscum doing. And you were in that game where Tywin Lannister screwed up his PR claim, so why the hell couldn't you see that Noraa was making the exact same mistakes as he was?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Kasumeat before I proceed, what is your reason for playing mafia?

[Gamma Emerald]

Elaboration on Pooky by whom?

[Gamma Emerald]

Very simply questions:

1) Do you have a problem with my logic and if so what?
2) I just gave you tons of analysis about pooky in the posts you're responding to. Are you just going to ignore that to continue whining about pooky?

I have my own question to Blitzo.

We somewhat recently compiled a decent amount of reasons to suspect Pooky. Where is that in your mind rn? I don’t see how your current mindset results in dumping the entirety of that logic.

[Gamma Emerald]

the thing I keep coming back to is this: is the setup balanced without bulge and no scum power?

Additional question on top of this: if bulge isn’t what he says he is but no scum PRs exist, why does Noraa’s role exist, aside from the be a false lead for Neap? Plenty of roles exist to do that potentially. Why Checker?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Shea You know, that’s not a bad question. Perhaps we should. Might resolve some lingering doubts.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm kind of focused on something else right now.

IRL?

[Gamma Emerald]

Uhhh okay

[Gamma Emerald]

I wasn’t talking to you lmao

[Gamma Emerald]

just got to work so this is an egopost
ppl please leave me notes on what's good because i'm not likely to read 120 pages

Pretty much you’re working from a blank slate imo, since NM did shit all
So if you can at least put in some leg work I am willing to trust you (though NM wasn’t the key figure in my PoE anyway)

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I'm gunna throw a major pissy party about N_M when this game is over. Fair warning.

Yeah why’d he get yanked suddenly, was that his last prod straw?

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw I see some dispute over what to call skipping the elimination vote, my homesite calls that “abstaining” or “voting to abstain”

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma something that hasn't been addressed is why you pushed hard to convince blitzo to push me in the hood last night when you yourself havent pushed me at all and had been calling me town as recently as yesterday.

Because he was being very loud about not being confident in anything and I was trying to give him a push forward, plus I agree on the read but didn’t want to push it myself given my charisma only seems to kick in when I’m dead wrong.

[Gamma Emerald]

why is scum nokill any more silly a theory than usual?

where was the followup? what was the point? why not kill the ic?

i mean
no kill makes a tonne of sense if they're gambiting today

why are you being all subtle here lmao
obviously yes my claim could be that. and obviously im answering this question fmpov, which is what you were trying to understand in the first place.

i'm kinda surprised as either alignment you're playing hard this phase but just utterly not acknowledging the value of a scum gambit
i appreciate you're pushing your perspective but this feels disingenuous

You are basically trying to get Bulge to say “I could be scum”. Self-awareness on a habitual level (saying you do something as X alignment) is one thing but that brand of self-admittance starts to look like perspective slipping, and I highly dislike you trying to force Bulge to display that perspective. Bulge’s response looks exactly like I would expect town who knows the point has no effective basis would act, similar to how town might respond to a fake guilty. He can’t even start to process the validity of the point because it comes from an idea he knows is false. As such there’s no reason to entertain it.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Kasumeat before I proceed, what is your reason for playing mafia?

Mostly because I like to feel clever.

You?

So you actively try to do well, then? Because your attempts to sort me say otherwise. You seem content to push the same shitty logic on me as last time, seeing as between my two posts towards you I checked your play in the other game and you tried to call me “scum who was trying to appear stupid”, to paraphrase your argument that resulted in one of my past sig quotes. And now here you seem to be trying to push the idea that I “know too much”. It seems to me at this point your scumread on me boils to playstyle, so you need to realize that and dump that logic from your brain, because it’s not valid. I don’t remember if I cared about the flip but whether I did or did not, there was that ongoing thread of me trying to get a bead on what MCat was seeing from Pooky, and I wanted to acknowledge “yes this actually does make a dent in my thought process, I’m not being unreasonable”. For Noraa, as I said I had just used similar play from Noraa in another game as an excuse to miselim her. As such I had insider knowledge of her behavior. You’re right that I knew something extra, but it was because of meta, not because I am scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma something that hasn't been addressed is why you pushed hard to convince blitzo to push me in the hood last night when you yourself havent pushed me at all and had been calling me town as recently as yesterday.

Because he was being very loud about not being confident in anything and I was trying to give him a push forward, plus I agree on the read but didn’t want to push it myself given my charisma only seems to kick in when I’m dead wrong.

This is stinky smelly poo.

Blitzo does this jive with your understanding? You seem to have been saying that it was gamma who had the read and pushed you into pushing it. Is that true? Am I misreading that?

He had the read the entire game, I presented my points to help him firm it up to a point where I’d figure he’d be willing to push it
I am 100% aware of how shady that sounds but I legit was tired of driving the game after I had missed three times in a row, on lims that all probably happened because I pushed for them (I tried to push an alternative to Pooky vs. Noraa D1, I put out the meta wall on Noraa D2, and I opted to lim Panzer over Pooky and tried to get everyone to consolidate on Panzer).

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbf, if I were scum would I not want to press my luck and see if I could get away with pushing one more bad choice for town to make? In the world where I’m scum my play up to then had been stellar, as I’d managed to drive 3 miselims without looking like I was really behind them. You don’t tag out when you’re playing a winning game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbf, if I were scum would I not want to press my luck and see if I could get away with pushing one more bad choice for town to make? In the world where I’m scum my play up to then had been stellar, as I’d managed to drive 3 miselims without looking like I was really behind them. You don’t tag out when you’re playing a winning game.

I'm really unsure what this even means. In white flag you were super interested in solves and fitting behavior together in analysis of wagons and what not. I really haven't seen a lot of that here. I've seen a lot of pushing things from the sidelines and this is perhaps the latest example. It's a huge part of why I lean scum!gamma more than scum!blitzo.

I'm saying my distaste for pushing anything today is an odd move to make if scum. I don't recall anyone giving me prolonged grief about any of my calls up until then. I essentially would have been trying to annul a problem that didn't exist, which is dumb play imo.
I have had wagon analysis interest, I just have felt tepid about seriously diving into it this game since no scumflips have come, which I think are important for it. In addition I am interested in solves, I spent a lot of last night tossing out thoughts about what the scumteam was trying to accomplish, especially on D3 .And I also have been acting like I did in WF, did you miss where I had to recalibrate my interpretation of Pooky and his wagon because I'd realized I was falling into the same trap I fell in during WF?

[Gamma Emerald]

This would be a game where all the PRs threw wouldn’t it
Honestly I’m still thinking Bulge is town because look at the PR play standard in this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Shea 100% scum
Pooky 100% scum
tw 80% scum
Blitzo 20% scum

I’ve been around there since the start of yesterday, nothing I’ve seen since the massclaim has really done much to rip my reads in any direction.

[Gamma Emerald]

gammo if you are town you are going to lose this game by half ass tunnelling me

can you expand a bit

Blitzo town slipped in the hood and has felt kinda genuine just via general play
Meanwhile NM did Jack all to help while he was here, his only real “contribution” being to tunnel the IC for 3 game days, and then you came in and started trying to make Bulge validate a viewpoint that suggested he was scum

Shea and Pooky are both practically confscum via gamestate imo

[Gamma Emerald]

Shea 100% scum
Pooky 100% scum
tw 80% scum
Blitzo 20% scum

I’ve been around there since the start of yesterday, nothing I’ve seen since the massclaim has really done much to rip my reads in any direction.

and you don't have anything to say about me vs them? like I'm pretty sure I've expressed that I feel like I'm out here drowning on my own. you don't feel like addressing any of my points at all? like part of this is a cry for assurance and some fucking sanity in the thread, but mostly I'm wondering why you're comfortable sitting on the sidelines right now if your team is on the cusp of losing.

Idk what I can really do to assist, you should probably actually be appealing to Kasu here. He’s the one with the confirmed town voice atp.

[Gamma Emerald]

The issue I’m having is despite a lot of the PoE people’s solves having 50/50 spots, none of them include Pooky, but despite that he’s escaped real mention as a suspect here. I really feel like he has been seeeded as the deepwolf here, and also remains as the one person where I think we have a really clean chance to hit scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

I also have yet to hear a reason for kasu being town and am still rather cross about not having that answer. It's getting to the point where people are just saying he's town and then leaving it at that and it's driving me nuts.

The only world in which Kasu is scum is one in which scum decide to no kill gambit with a potential IC in the game, AND THEN THEY WENT AND KILLED THE IC ANYWAY WHICH WOULD ILLEGITIMIZE THE ENTIRE PLAY.
If Bulge’s REALLY WAS trying to fake it here, he would have JUST SEEN a game where someone made the same play, which he could use as a blueprint (maybe, idr the progress on that game when the claim happened here). In addition I really doubt Pooky and Bulge are EVER teamed here given that fact that Pooky was the perpetrator of the doctor claim gambit in the other game I’m citing rn.

To break this down more clearly, a game recently finished where Pooky fakeclaimed doctor as scum and got put into a spot where he could not make the needed kill without getting in deep trouble. Bulge was town in that game and, iirc, knew pretty close to when he claimed that Pooky’s claim was a scum gambit. So I think if Bulge’s was scum here, he might have taken cues from Pooky’s game, and either left things on evens to not give a solid read on the situation, or killed his initial clear Kasu and claimed to protect the obvious choice. Instead he literally made the exact move Pooky would have needed to CLAIM TO HAVE DONE in the other game that would never result in a net positive unless he managed to pull out a hard refuge in audacity WIFOM townread. As such I think it’s outlandish to think Bulge is faking it here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Kasu is town because he is playing THE EXACT SAME GAME he played last time I played with him and he was town there

HAPPY????

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma because he's really only towny sounding on the front foot - whenever I try to put him on the defensive he shuts down and becomes impossible to talk to. He also seems to sheep every single thing I say and the few things he came up with on his own are wifomy and not smart.

I feel like you’re letting recent events cloud your mind. May I remind you I composed a biggol wall against Noraa D2 all on my lonesome? No help from you, no WIFOM points, and no “not sounding smart”, whatever the fuck that’s supposed to mean. And I become hard to talk to because I really feel like I’ve had to put in a ton of the work in our relationship, since you were crying a fucking river about how you had no idea what was going on but HAD NO DRIVE TO FIX IT. I had to give you a huge kick to even start trying to figure shit out, and then you go and try to act like I’M the suspicious one. If I were scum why do I PROPEL YOU into trying to solve the game??? IS IT NOT EASIER TO JUST LET YOU FLOUNDER??????

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma if I'm "scum 100%" enough for you to try to push your neighbor to push me for you (lol) please explain why. You haven't yet made a single real argument about it. So you're gunna have to tryhard just a little bit more to get me yeeted.

What it boils down to is me and Blitzo have tossed out our thoughts on you and the grand sum of our thought processes tells me you are scum. We've both had things we've noticed from you that kinda corraborates the things the other person has been seeing, in a way that while individually it feels like we each don't have a clear sign of what's going on with you, when you put the two parts together it forms what seems to be a cohesive argument.

That argument is that you've been reasonably active, but it's not like you're legitimately sorting, you've just been kinda steering the game as much as you've needed to in order to lead town to its doom. Early on Blitzo had a pretty prevalent feeling on you that you weren't being as involved as you normally are as town, which while I have no baseline for that on a meta level, I think later activity from you has legitimized the point he was making. My thinking there comes from how you played D3. Let's give a refresh of what had just happened coming in. The person you had been pretty strongly pushing, Noraa, was just miselimmed. Following that, you come into D3 pushing Bulge, a player you'd kinda been pushing before but not as strongly as Noraa. The first issue I have is, where's the evidence that Noraa's flip made a dent in your thought process? You seemed perfectly content to potentially continue leading town off the rails, which probably comes from a scum mindset vs. a town one. Scum don't have any direct reason to take a step back following a miselim, the only motive to do so is to look towny.
The other issue I have is how tepid you Bulge push was D3. If you were still confident in your bulge read

despite

having already been wrong once, I'd expect a bit more fire, no? But instead your push there didn't really go anywhere, all I really noticed was it was more de-centralized pressure in a day where I feel like scum tried to ensure the pressure never really amounted to much on anyone as to make the day less informative for future days, and force town to search for a compromise that scum could manipulate onto whoever they wanted to get rid of.

[Gamma Emerald]

fffffffff
tw if you’re town here somehow, I’m just gonna terminate you any time you replace into a game in the later stages, because you clearly do not have the capacity to actually contribute in a useful and meaningful way.
I really feel like the return on investment for this game has been pretty shitty for me tbqh.

I’ve been stewing on this game for the past couple hours while at work and I think I know what must be done.

Time to let the new Gamma out to play. Within the next few days, you all shall pay.

[Gamma Emerald]

also hi new gamma. are we about to have a bad time?

He’s not here yet, you’ll know when he is.

Just know I understand why RC is how he is now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright no-holds-barred time. Some of these will be direct engagements, some will just be addressing things regarding the people in question.
First up on the “hit list”, Blitzo.

Blitzo, why are you trying to paint me as the bad guy when I’ve had to drive a good amount of things in the main game and especially in the hood? I also have been playing the hood in a way that’s clearly not afraid to make moves with it, between proposing the Mason claim gambit and revealing the hood the way I did, I did not shy away from taking decisive action when it came to hood stuff. Why do I make such bold plays as scum? That just seems like a way to put a target on myself in a way that is entire unnecessary.
Now for the million-dollar question. You seem to think a Shea-bulge-Gamma team has some legitimacy. Mind sharing with the class what you said in the hood N3 that makes that worldview make no sense? Because if that was the team there’s a super-fucking-easy avenue to winning the game that you fed me on a silver platter.

You have 24 hours to engage me on this Blitzo. I won’t put a timetable on this part but I intend to cap this inquiry off when I post my thing regarding the worst.
I’m also putting out a request to not speak about anything I’m posting from this post onward unless spoken to in one of them.

[Gamma Emerald]

Next in the lineup is Kasumeat.

For Kasu, I have a comparison I’d like him to attempt to do. Try to fit the players in this game into the behavioral molds of the players in our last game together. I have my own ideas, I want to see yours. To clarify, I want to know who out of your theorized scumteam is playing like which scum from that other game, and similar things for the flipped town and people still alive that you think are town.

[Gamma Emerald]

The idea that somehow bulge and I have been engaging in an aggressive three day long bus is somehow wild to me. Sounds like gamma is getting kind of desperate here.

OH FUCK OFF AND DIE!!!!!!!

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: shea
YEET THIS MOTHERFUCKER FOR HAVING TO GALL TO ACCUSE ME OF PUSHING HIM AND BULGE AS PARTNERS WHEN I HAVE NEVER DONE THAT AND AM ARGUING AGAINST THAT!!!!!

[Gamma Emerald]

This song is me_irl mood wise

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t even care what happens as long as that cheeky fucker gets yeeted ASAP

[Gamma Emerald]

The only thing I can remember in recent games that pissed me off to the degree that I’m currently pissed off is interacting with Enter in Ginn’s joint upick

[Gamma Emerald]

I probably did take it too far, but I was legitimately upset you thought I was expressing that on any level. It doesn’t convey any sense of you actually working to read my posts, it just seems like a cheap shot.
And I really don’t like being upset about this stuff because I get upset irl and when that happens my dad start to nag the shit out of me trying to find out what random thing is on my mind, and then he gets fucking upset about me having emotions when he should have minded his own goddamn fucking business!! As a result I try extra-hard to exert my emotions in a venue that he doesn’t have the ability to see, which is often right here.

[Gamma Emerald]

My thing towards Shea is essentially re-iterating the point I made @ Blitzo about how I have been driving the game a fair amount, this time as a counter to the idea that I “haven’t been pushing things” which is just super disingenuous on the macro scale of the game. I also feel like I should re-iterate that in the now, it doesn’t exactly make sense for scum!me to pump the brakes on trying to lead when so far the results are all to spec in that scenario. I would have expected Blitzo to corroborate this at some point but he’s pretty much eternally out-to-lunch when it comes to anything that would help the town. I would have formatted this like the last two posts, but experiencing a rage event horizon made me not feel like doing that anymore.

[Gamma Emerald]

gammo. this is an incendiary question, but i want to be incendiary so yolo.

are you voting shea because he hurt your feelings?

That’s part of it but I also just think he’s obvscum

@Blitzo you haven’t answered the question. You’ve still got like 16 hours, but the more you avoid it the less favorably I’ll view a wrong answer.
Also, it’s not “WIFOM”, it’s basic reason. Why make a scene about something if I’m just trying to eek by? It might get looked at favorably but it also might get me in a shit-ton of hot water.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait that’s actually correct you said Kasu not Shea
But I still think there’s a massive hole in that theory.

[Gamma Emerald]

I just realized the whole thing I blew up over probably could have been avoided if I’d read better
I fucking h8 myself rn

[Gamma Emerald]

ANSWER THE QUESTION!
Why does it not make sense for a gamma-bulge-Kasu team to exist?

[Gamma Emerald]

I asked the same question for a different team. Same answer passes so I didn’t feel the need to restate it until just now. Something you posted in the hood makes that team a preposterous suggestion.

[Gamma Emerald]

Look at the reads you expressed there in our N3 discussions and tell me what you think scum!me tries to do considering that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Do something on your own for once you bum.

[Gamma Emerald]

You failed the test. Red pen and everything.

I was trying to point you towards your NM suspicions you had expressed multiple times. If the team were what you believe it to be, why don’t I try to feed you sweet nothings to get you to vote out NM with us? And you can’t say “there was no kill” as a rebuttal BECAUSE THE REASON NO KILL HAPPENED IS A LIE IN THE SCENARIO YOU’RE TRYING TO PUSH!!!!!!! Plus, OWER would have likely been chomping at the it to make NM pay for pushing him all game.
The fact you refuse to see that or any reasonable view on the game makes me think you’re scum.

Congrats tw/Pooky, you’re no longer holding the short end of the stick here.

[Gamma Emerald]

if blitzo is scum this is all your fault for not letting me yeet him 2 days ago

Probably wouldn’t have happened anyway. Game was too fractured for a scum yeet that day.

[Gamma Emerald]

What a terrible read, honestly. Just more WIFOM garbage he pulled out of his butt to patch over the fact that I'm not listening to him anymore.
Anyways.

I think I'm probably just going to vote the opposite of whatever Gamma does.

Go for it, bitch.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, if I’m wrong on you I’d rather just end the game now. You are legitimately the worst person I’ve ever fucking played with if you’re town. Okay no Panzer probably wins that award but I didn’t have to share a neighborhood with him so it’s not as personal there.

[Gamma Emerald]

That just proves you’re scum with Shea who wants to hold out for the quickhammer.

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s from you being an intractable piece of work. I have had the worst time trying to work with you this game, to the point where if you aren’t scum I actively detest you for making it this hard.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m trying to stay calm but I’ve poured a lot of time, energy, and thought into this game, so I don’t want it to feel wasted.