Open 90 - Trendy and Subversive C9 Mafia Wins! before 656

[Azrael001]

The solution is obvious. Kill Sekinj tonight and Strife tomorrow.

As such

Vote Sekinj

Sorry I'm late I have four other games going on right now, and I forgot that this one started. I will be here from now on.

[Azrael001]

I think I may have gotten to the end of page two and forgot to go to the next page. I was under the impression we were still in the random vote stage. That post was not serious. I just picked two people who were arguing and said lynch them both.

[Azrael001]

Wow, I feel dumb. I managed to skip page two as well as page three. I don't know how I managed to do that. I have reread the thead, and I'm going to have to

unvote

As the person that I'm voting for seems to be the most protown person here.

I don't know what else I can say to atone for my mistake. It's not like I can prove whether or not I did in fact make a timing mistake rather than a scummy one.

I can't even use past play history here, as all of my games are on xkcd's fora. Sigh.

[Azrael001]

Well after realizing that I didn't read part of the thread, I reread it, then posted my opinions. The posts aren't that long, and there are only 25ish posts per page. Catching up took about twenty minutes (probably, this was the other day I can't remember exactly and I don't care enough to check). I almost never base my suspicions on mistakes, but rather on tone and word choice. It usually serves me well.

If you want to lynch me for a dumb mistake go ahead, but it would be a mistake.

[Azrael001]

So Mirth you say that you want answers from me, but you have yet to ask any questions that are not rhetorical. At the risk of doing an OMGUS I am going to have to say that you seem to be trying a little too hard to get people to look away from you.

As for thinking that sekinj seems pro-town, I stand by that. I am not saying that he is pro-town, it just seems like it.

When I have something more useful to say I will say it. I am not going to write gibberish just to seem like I am not lurking. I am not super active, but I started late, and that is the excuse that I will take to the grave with me.

That is all.

[Azrael001]

So can we accuse you of lurking then?

I work full time and am in four other games right now, I am stretched a little thin (that is to say that I find your accusations about my "lurking" to be a little irritating).

To answer your questions about sekinj:

There was no action in particular that made me think that

s

he (sorry) was pro town, in Mafiascum, words speak louder than actions, especially on day one. I like to think that I am not an idiot, and would like you to assume the same (just as I assume that other people know what they are doing). People aren't going to blatantly give themselves away, especially by doing something as dumb as trying to get someone lynched with no evidence, right at the beginning of a round. I don't have a list of who I think is scum or not, because I do not yet have an opinion. I'll do a reread when I don't have work in the morning, then my list will be produced.

If you still have questions please put them in one place so that I don't have to go looking for them. I am lazy like that, sorry.

[Azrael001]

To those wondering how I made such a simple mistake still (and you can see that I am still annoyed that I did it, as I am still talking about it)

I will attach a diagram for use as a visual aid.

I will go back and find all of the questions if I must, but I am not happy about it...



The above is the image. I am sure that if you copy and paste it into your address bar you will see it. I don't know how to wangle these new fangled internets. Answers coming to a double post near you.

[Azrael001]

Questions ahoy. (Sorry, embarrassment causes me to become defensive about my actions).

I copied all questions directed at me into Notepad and answered them in order. I haven't wrote who asked each one because it is probably unimportant:

1. Azreal... what pro-town reason can you possibly give here for that poo-excuse-of-a-post?

The post is not pro-town, it is random (the "random voting stage seems dumb to me and I think that the whole thing is "anti town"), it is clearly a mistake see the above.

2. And hey, I sure did lay down a gnarly random vote. Why should we be lynching sekinj/strife, Azrael?

We shouldn't be (maybe) it seemed to me as though they were arguing, I wanted to do the whole King Soloman thing.

3.Or are you just backtracking now so as not to look bad?

I don't understand why you would ask this. I am sticking to my story whether you believe it or not. Even if I was as guilty as you think I am, I would say the same thing. This question is a waste of time.

4.As we're not, do you have any more serious thoughts on who should be lynched today?

Not yet, though Mirth is beginning to look tempting...

5. Az, first of all, how is calling someone protown good?

It is my opinion, and the only one I had at this point, I thought that I would share.

6. You think you can write Sek off as protown?

No. I suspected that she was prtown.

7. Already?

Yes.

8. On page 4?

Yes.

9. After you admit to not reading most of the thread?

If you read carefully you will see that I have claimed to have finished reading the thread. Maybe someone else should do a reread?

10. This statement needs to be backed up - how could you get such a read so soon?

People act in certain ways when they are guilty, either too accusatory, or too defensive, or too nonchalant. Townies tend to be more relaxed and reasonable. Good scum know this and act accordingly. Either Sekinj is town or good at playing scum (in my opinion).

11. Whatever you're basing them on, do you want to share those suspicions with the rest of us?

Yes I do. When I have them I will post them. It is harder when I don't recognize people. Sorry.

12. ...how does "tone and word choice" possibly help?

See the above.

13. Is there a list of words to use if scum VS. town?

No.

[Azrael001]

Quick everyone get Farside while he's gone!

(note this is a joke, please don't take it seriously.)

[Azrael001]

I have yet to vote as I do not yet have any strong suspicions. I will do a reread right now and post my suspicions soon. (I just moved back up to school for the year. I have been busy sorry.)

[Azrael001]

But saying "Sekinj seems to be the most pro-town player" is not something I see a pro-town player doing. This statement needs to be backed up - how could you get such a read so soon?

I don't think that saying someone "seems to be the most pro-town player" is particularly helpful, particularly when there's no accompanying list of who seems to be the most scummy, but I don't see why it's such an unbelievable thing for him to have such a read at this point. It's not like he's saying "sekinj is 100% confirmed town and anyone who votes for her is scum scum scum!".

Unvote, Vote: Mirth

. Az could definitely do with being less vague, but I'm still finding Mirth considerably scummier than him at this point.

When I am scum, I often defend those that I know to be innocent, for two reasons. Firstly, if they get lynched I will have been proven right, and this will reduce suspicion from me. Second, if I get lynched and am proven to be scum, it will look as though I am partnering up with the innocent one and may get them lynched. This is what I think that iamausername is doing. As such

Vote: iamausername

[Azrael001]

I was about to suggest that we have the cop claim, but then I remembered the role blocker. Should we hit the role blocker today, I think that tomorrow the cop should claim.

[Azrael001]

I see, it's cop OR nurse and doctor OR Deputy. Yeah I guess we don't want to risk that.

My thinking was this: If the cop claims an no one counters that, we have one confirmed townie. The doctor (who I assumed existed) would protect him. We would then have the results of all of his investigations following. Essentially having an invincible cop right up until the doctor dies.

Should two people claim cop, we would then have one guaranteed scum. We then have a 50% chance of guessing right instead of a 14% chance of guessing right (barring all other circumstances). Even if we guess wrong we will then have a guaranteed scum the next day...

Of course this is a moot point as we may or may not have both a cop and a doctor.

@Iam I don't disagree with you, I just think that defending people is something that only someone with extra knowledge can safely do. Currently only the mob has knowledge of who is and isn't scum. Defending someone once is probably fine, but twice (or more) sets off warning bells for me.

Besides, if I was scum why would I vote for someone who has no votes? Mirth or retrowiz would be much better targets, setting them up for a hammer would be easy. I don't get scum vibes from them so I am not voting for them.

Wow, way to softclaim townie here. This post bothers me soooooo soooooo much. We don't know if you're innocent. Don't claim it.

Is the default claim not regular townie? Are we not all trying to convince everyone else that that is what we are?

Also, it is foolish to defend a team mate as

[Azrael001]

... That last part of the last post was not finished.

...as it tends to show pairing, which is bad (for them, not the town.)

I would assume that most people know this.

[Azrael001]

Azrael's asking for the cop to claim.

I am not. There is a role blocker and we may not have a doctor. I was about to suggest it when I realized that the role blocker would get him/ her. I am of the opinion that an early out is better than a late one as the mafia has more to lose and is less likely to try to claim the role themselves. Also having a confirmed innocent makes things much clearer for everyone.

I had anticipated someone using the WIFOM argument against me, but there isn't much I can say against it. Lynching me might make things more clear.

Also, I would contend that vanilla townie is what it is that

everyone

is trying to convince everyone else that they are. Should the mob believe that one is a power role then they are more that person is much more likely to be killed.

It should be noted that rather than consider the possibility that I might be the doctor trying to find the cop (I am not) there were those that immediately attacked me. I am getting more and more inclined to ignore Strife's rabid attacks, as they target everyone, and therefore (to me at least) seem ineffective.

I applaud your (claimed) honesty Iam, it is much better playing with people like you. I think that I am better able to read such people as I am so similar myself (Believe what you will). I will always say what I think, regardless of whether or not I have anything to back it up. This causes me too appear guilty to almost everyone. There was a time when this was not the case, but alas my play style has evolved.

you could have set either Mirth or retro up to be hammered, yes, but you'd be under heavy scrutiny tomorrow when they turned up town (assuming you'd go for the one who wasn't your buddy if one of them was).

I would think that being one of four people voting would not put me under that much pressure, especially if I was voting in as indecisive a spot as third. Also, I am often tempted to start votes against my slightly suspected teammates in anticipation of the end game.

[Azrael001]

When he made his vote, I was thinking he looked more pro-town for it, for pretty mush the reasons he states here, but when he immediately followed it up with this post, it seemed more like he deliberately chose a less popular target for his vote just so he could say this and "prove" he isn't scum.

Except that saying that that I am trying to prove my innocence in this manner would be dumb if that was what I was actually doing(it actually was a dumb move anyways, but that's beside the point).

Being an unknown here makes it obvious to me that my play style needs work, as I appear far too suspicious. Plus making multiple mistakes in one game doesn't help. I am standing by my vote.

I am of the opinion now that Strife is likely innocent and farside is no. These are hunches, and not very strong ones. Should you decide to lynch me, I thought that I should put that out there.

[Azrael001]

Weee, I are dead. I am interested to see how this continues.