Mini Normal 2181 | College Basketball Players | Game Over

[Prism]

ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ:･ﾟ KAWAII WAVE!!:„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤KEEP THE KAWAII GOING ¸„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤øº LETS GO KAWAII !¤¤º°¨¨°º¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨„ ø¤º°¨¨°ºL-E-T-S GO!„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤LET'S GO KAWAII !¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤øºL-E-T-S GO!¤¤º°¨ ¨°¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨LET'S GO KAWAII :„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤KEEP THE WAVE GOING •ᴥ•¸„ø¤º

VOTE: petapan

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Excited to run this back in so many ways but the first one is already a success

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I didn't like 102 from DGB but I also didn't like 105 from Pooky calling her scum for it.

Anyone want to help walk me through the very beginning? It all started when I was young. It was a bright summer day, and I was watching Power Rangers on VHS...

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peta, if you bend the knee and call me senpai I might consider carrying you this game

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Okay peta, I ain't afraid of you, you're now town, congratulations. This did not happen with your role PM but with my decree.

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Kinda wondering why you didn't just join a vote if you're that eager for a wagon

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Wait my vote's on peta

I'm a baddie

VOTE: bork

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Dart throw he's town but I'm going to take my time. It's more important to not let him run away from the game or let it get away from him.

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I don't share your misgivings on Cabd, if that's even the right word for it.

The attitude is about what I expect and I don't see any red flags in his posting.

If you're challenging him to drive more content just for its own sake, I'm going to say I'm pretty ambivalent.

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It may be recency bias but from what I've seen, I feel like hyperposting, provided I'm not the one doing it, has been pretty +town overall. It easily snowballs the game against the scumteam if they're not present early. Simultaneously, I'm a very patient player, and I really like to chew on things for extended periods. I also prefer more balanced voices.

Is it worse for us that we have a lukewarm start? Probably, but I'm happy to see it from the perspective of enjoyment/depth of play.

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I'll answer whatever question someone had for me+give other comments when I get home.

I like this Elements a lot more than the one I saw in Undertale. Putting all 3 of Candy/Ffery/Syr town for Elements scum is very brave

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Blame my phone, Candy-Cabd

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I like you better this time, Ruler. What is it that bugs you about 102?

I have the benefit of being a little more current with Cabd's thinking/attitude. DGB's is a valid criticism but isn't particularly creative. I don't really dislike it anymore.

No clue what makes me so shiny to anyone beyond my genuine good will and affection towards my son, petapan. To my knowledge the only experience anyone here has of me scum is from the two/three Ruler posts.

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Vax is weird. Overly aggressive and positioning for its own sake can work if you have the right idea/it's a weak table.

I shrugged off the early disconnect but the positioning above just seems clueless. Going out of their way to show bravado and be aggressive while also being sure to hedge w/ letting us know it's a phone post.

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Prism, how would you describe your style as a player?

I think I already answered this, but I'm a patient player overall who really likes to take their time and work through the game multiple times. I focus a lot on progressions in how I choose to evaluate players, and the more time I have, the more indepth I go on meta.

As scum I'm very active and can seem aggressive, but in reality I'm generally just waiting for town to lose the game themselves while I try to deter more correct play. My words tend to be more aggressive but I am extremely, extremely safe in how I play the alignment.

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Maybe you just don't know me. We all have our own style.

Did the mentioning that these are phone posts come off as "hedging my reads" to you? That seems like a stretch. It was really just a comment on probably misspelling or typing or formatting.

I don't remember the 1/2 games we played very well.

I didn't like how self-conscious it was and felt it clashed with the more aggressive bravado you were aiming towards. If it's for the spelling, sure I guess.

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It's also worth noting my bad habits.

My reads are absolute dogshit, and even if I'm patient while doing so I can also get completely obsessive and take over games. This almost universally leads to town losses.

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only if they are actually all town

I considered 0 or 1 being scum. 0 seemed like the worst to do that with, but 1/3 being scum it also really seemed inadvisable and scary. After thinking on this for a bit, I still think this and really like how Elements has started here.

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You okay peta? You need me to call grandpa Regfan?

Chin up, fella. What do you think of Elements and Pooky so far?

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this seems like an arbitrary grouping of people (ffery/syr/cabd) unless you're inside the meta circle

Can you elaborate? I think this grouping is very obviously non-arbitrary from my perspective, thought it might not be from Elements' perspective. I think even without knowing them, and only seeing this game, this holds true, though.

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I think even without knowing them, and only seeing this game, this holds true, though.

This is really the crux: curious as to why you think this

Three active, strong posters.

VOTE: borkjerfkin

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Menalque, I don't believe I've played with you but if you're curious as to my meta:

I can already tell you if you're expecting Dystopia/Chara's Folly Prism you're wasting your time and it won't happen.

Expect something closer to Undertale S Open or GG2.

If you're trying to scum meta me, The Thaw used a lot of my town tendencies, Owner's Market showcased my preferred style, and Miss List is a hyperaggressive variant. I don't have any recent scum games other than Flying Scumsman, which had the more patient style but I was very bored of to the point of refusing to play after Day 2.

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Come on, this game isn't exactly filled w/ shlubs and I don't feel like they've been dominating the game in any real perceivable capacity that it's too dangerous to write them all off
in any event it's a really weird reason to vote me for asking about

That's very different than what I'm saying first off, second I haven't liked any of your posts this game to begin with starting with the hint of a townread on ffery.

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but i miss Folly Prism

I intend to play to my full strength but I'm not going to play town dictator again. Playing town dictator is not playing to my wincon.

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That's very different than what I'm saying first off

what are you saying, then? and how is me not grokking it scummy?

This is very disingenuous. Don't get me wrong, I don't like you strawmanning either, but I voted you before the question we're talking about you grokking.

hint of a townread on ffery.

normally I'd shrug and let your "not liking my body of work" lie for the moment but I'd love to hear what you didn't like about that post in particular

I thought it was very strange to go out of your way to give this read as opposed to finding ways to test it or holding off entirely.

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Might as well save yourself the alt switching and just tag in on the main at this point.

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but I voted you before the question we're talking about you grokking.

I mean, you revoted me in the post, and I think that has a certain implication, no?

This is wrong, unless we are talking about two separate things. Please go back and review the timeline.

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I'm literally telling you your characterization of my posts are wrong and to review it. This is deeply ironic.

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Don't think this line of questioning is productive any more. Can you both instead unpack your syr read because I'm no longer calm about it.

Don't really have one, no issues to me and I'm not familiar with Syr at all so it's not really a priority.

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I thought it was very strange to go out of your way to give this read as opposed to finding ways to test it or holding off entirely.

i have no idea what to say to this. i don't agree

I mean if you're town it's fine, it's not like you have to refute every opinion of your posts that I hold to succeed.

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Three active, strong posters.

VOTE: borkjerfkin

So this is the reply to my vote:

Come on, this game isn't exactly filled w/ shlubs and I don't feel like they've been dominating the game in any real perceivable capacity that it's too dangerous to write them all off
in any event it's a really weird reason to vote me for asking about

This is the one where I think you characterized my point way too strongly for me to be comfortable with.

I think extending my point that townreading three active, strong posters is very bold as scum. "Dominating" is a lot stronger of a word-I'm not saying they're page 5 Paragons-and I don't think this requires writing them off entirely. From a scum perspective, it means restricting your own freedom in how you interact with them immediately right off the bat, and allows their words to carry more weight. This does not mean resigning yourself to those townreads permanently permanently.

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Yeah it was to bork and prism. Ffery can do her own thang.

I mean I think bork's reaction has been awful. I don't have meta on him but he really stretched my point further to try and discredit it and seems to think that he has to actually prove me wrong rather than let an opinion sit.

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I think you extended my point that townreading three active, strong posters is very bold as scum.

EBWOP so this sentence actually makes sense.

I have a bad habit of switching grammatical structures on the fly and not revising to make them consistent.

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;+/ prism I meant your townread on syr that I wanted unpacked.

267

Are you confusing my discussion of Elements' reads on the syr/ffery/cabd trio with reads of my own?

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My quote was meant to be why I do think it's productive

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I really don't get that cropping of the quote. It makes it appear more like a challenge to you rather than me describing how a post came off to me.

I'm okay to take a break, that's not meant to be an attack on you, I think it just inadvertently casts my post in a much worse light.

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I want to take this moment to note that the pace was not even close to related to me replacing our of Illicit, and pacing is not an issue for me even if I have a preference.

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I encourage the change but it was really annoying watching

literally zero

correct statements made about my preferences all game and it was the torture I deserved for replacing our to begin with, so I have to take this chance to set that record straight even if I totally agree with your point.

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1264 in Undertale was posted the same day I replaced out of Illicit, shortly after withdrawing a similar request I made to Isis.

Existential malaise took a toll on me and I really didn't have my heart in the game to begin with. I don't want to blame ffery, and I get why she felt that way and wanted to see that, but I absolutely despised my play in Dystopia and her encouragement absolutely backfired and I wanted nothing to do with the game at that point. When Bell refused to explain a read I was interested in or engage with me at all, I left the game entirely for 20 pages. I came back, read, and realized that at that immediate moment, I hated the game, the playerlist, and playing mafia in general. I moved to siteflake before deciding to honor my existing commitments, too late to withdraw my request in Illicit but I successfully got to Isis in time.

I don't like power roles or mechanics and prefer playing mountainous all day. My favorite role is VT.

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want to be my mason lover this game?

Not yet my friendly little drinking bear, not yet.

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Ffery, don't feel like you have to play around me by the way. I don't hold it against you.

Like I said, I'm excited to run several aspects of previous games back and play them out the right way.

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I'm still pretty happy with my vote. I'll probably revisit it down the line.

For now, Bork, our conversation was primarily about my TR on Elements given his reads before I shifted more offensively.

Is there anything about that read that you are still wondering about?

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Okay maybe Mod (? I think) was right and we should just wagon Vax this is getting pretty atrocious

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Okay maybe Mod (? I think) was right and we should just wagon Vax this is getting pretty atrocious

Oh, is it?

I don't see why Vax, someone who has been intentionally aggressive in pushing for the sake of doing so, leaps to your defense here and defuses a similar move from Pooky.

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I think he's uncomfortable in his own skin at a minimum and scum at worst.

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No pronoun listed-they, then. My apologies.

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If anyone's wondering about mine, I explicitly have no pronoun preference, so feel free to use whatever you like.

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I like the honesty better

My vote stayin' put I guess

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Wrong, petapan is a confirmed noob

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ok but does elements know that they have this reputation even tho?

I think that the first 4/5 pages makes this clear even without reputation, the strength of play isn't on full display but the familiarity and activity are. As I said to Bork, I don't think they're page 5 paragons but I think my point stands.

As for Bork, if you want to talk to me more on that we can. I found it incredibly bizarre to be accused of misrepping him in a dialogue where I was clarifying

my

viewpoint he was describing, along with making a simple timeline correction.

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It might be worth pointing out where I'm coming from with Elements too: my experience with Elements is a scumgame where he noticeably struggled to play the early game and had a very weak first 10 pages.

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I like page 16 Vax

Maybe peta's scared to post cause he knows he'll shit the bed as scum

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I disagree on literally every front there on Bork. Part of the reason why I'm not pushing harder is that I don't want to drag down the game in minutia, but I didn't like his posts before that.

For Elements, even if you're correct that my read is wrong, that's really only half the job here. Where's the other?

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their vote on vax is gross and exactly what i'd expect from scum

Neither you nor I liked Vax's entrance either, though you were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for playstyle.

Vax's entrance is #121-#128. They had one more post in #149 to try a wagon vote on ffery. Elements voted them in #150.

This timeline makes me tilt my head. When you said "entrance" did you mean strictly the first 1/2 posts, only for the next 3/4 to be better?

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Lotta questions for skitter it appears. Unfortunate. Fresh blood is fun, though.

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Petapan, the sooner you get involved the better, you know.

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Pooky, do you have any reads beyond DGB so far?

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Maybe because Pooky calling another player scum for no reason and sounding very sure sounds weird?

What's your working hypothesis? I'm scum with Vax? He's protecting me from a Day 1 nonwagon? LOL

My point was that Vax had a similarly aggressive style, making it seem a bit contradictory to take issue with another player doing similar.

I'm also sure that these working hypotheses you have created are the only ones, that every scum motivation has an objective point. I am ready to draw on your infinite wisdom. Second one you listed happens all the time btw.

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I'm also hoping Pooky gives a little bit less playful banter and a little more substance but I'm trusting he will in time for now. It's not the worst thing in the world to have fun with friends.

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Sorry Pooky I think I just claimed anti-fun cop

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No, I have issues downstream of it and I'm trying to figure out whether or not it's going to be clarifying to keep it real on and am mostly coming up as no

It's unclear to me exactly what you mean by "downstream" here, my guess is the minutia discussion where I took issue with how you characterized my point.

I also never made clear exactly why I chose to vote you at that time, only clarified the timing and that I didn't like your posts before it. The timing came because I didn't think you were genuinely trying to see my viewpoint, only to defeat it if you could. Assuming it was just for asking is natural but I didn't like the follow up and I definitely didn't like your way-too-strong restatement of my point that came after it.

Part of me wondered if you thought me an easy target after Illicit, not necessarily to get wagoned but to at least score points off of. I will quickly put it to rest.

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I guess we're going into the weeds again.

I was intentionally vague with my vote in 233. I don't think I have to write a treatise on why I'd do this.

Your response was 239, which both strawmans my point about Elements and assumes that my vote is just for asking. These are two different points. The former is outright bad and is what I meant about being more concerned with scoring points off me. The latter is a bad assumption but not that scummy.

My 242 addresses both of these separately while hinting that it wasn't just for asking. I could have clarified immediately exactly why I

did

vote you, but the strawman was a lot more concerning to me and I wanted to engage further.

Your 249 asks directly what I am saying. It asks why you not grokking my point is scummy. I never said you not grokking it was scummy, this is again a bad leading question that I found disingenuous. From a more generous viewpoint it's just a wrong assumption given limited information. My 253 is saying that 239, the post I claimed was a strawman (ie. not grokking my point correctly), came after my vote.

Now that the conversation over my vote is over it was worth making more clear exactly why I voted you. For revisionism, we'll see when I flip, no time machine here.

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The former is outright bad and is what I meant about being more concerned with scoring points off me.

I already got this feeling outright from the arbitrary trio claim, and didn't like the followup with the crux, but 239 and the strawman is when that vote was sealed.

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Also, while I didn't explain the progression on my vote fully until now, I absolutely did try to restate the point about Elements to make it more clear to you and why I thought your restatement was a strongman: 273 is the clearest restatement.

I also hinted at exactly the points I'm making now w/ 274 to Cabd.

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You took the extra step of thinking that it might be playstyle despite the rough entrance. I think it's very easy to see a town player not doing the same as you, and instead taking the post at face value. With this in mind, I asked why Elements was scummy.

I think there's several ways to view the vote as scummy despite this but you seem to be willfully missing the point of my/bork's question.

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I don't really get why you're talking around it rather than more directly addressing our issue but I'm not really that determined to find proof of work here.

Both 502 and 505 skip the step of addressing why town doesn't vote Vax, given that they picked up the same scummy vibes as you, and skips straight to scum voting Vax because natural/easy push. It's not required but without it it doesn't say too much.

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ie. you can find it plausible that scum would vote it more than town, I just really would have appreciated a more direct acknowledgement of what we were saying over with something like the "despite this..." over ignoring it favor of pushing the scum line

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I'm a little tired and probably won't get around to this tonight. Skimming on my phone I can't tell if this is good content or a mess.

Try not to eat each other.

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Guess it's about time for me to work through this from scratch since I don't remember shit from what I skimmed, will take me a bit.

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Well first off I just learned that I revoted bork lmao, I forgot I threw up 130's vote entirely, just to be somewhere else after not liking the hint of townread line.

I cleared up the timeline of what I was talking about here bork if you're still confused by what I meant.

My 253 is saying that 239, the post I claimed was a strawman (ie. not grokking my point correctly), came after my vote [in 233]

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Pooky, can you explain more about your 182? This angle bothers me. Elements got burned incredibly hard that game [Undertale 2.0] from virtually every angle, she's approaching this game with a bit more proactiveness for sure but being friendly is NOT what she carries over as a crucial point to a scum opener. iirc you also had her as scum quite early that game

My instinct here is that it's probably NAI and it bothers me that you seemed to scumread it

My ~page 10 reread scumteam~ is peta/pooky/bork

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I still don't see why this is something you're wary of in comparison to the overall much stronger play of Elements, especially given how hard Elements' pocket attempts on various players completely backfired on her.

I get you're a paranoid bear but it's a struggle for me to understand you.

I guess if it's the first thing you notice and draw the connection to?

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My impression of this game is that I'm going to have to meta virtually every player other than peta and it's going to be a giant pain in the ass.

Probably going to have to trick peta into town/scumclaiming to me again so I guess I should get something cooked up on that front.

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i think you're just jealous we don't have a complicated meta dance like the cool kids in this game

As far as I can remember from my skim you haven't commented on my play at all this game.

You're also playing weirdly cautiously in exactly how you're approaching pushing points/reads. You're reticent by nature on this account but to borrow a phrase, you make my skin crawl this game.

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he's [bork's] a stronger townread then you tho:

- his reaction to your push on him
- how he tried to disengage with you
- how he's interacting with the cabd/ffery thing and working through it

I thought the disengage wasn't great. Given that bork thought I was misrepping him, it's really bizarre to back off when someone feels their pressuring is effective. You don't want to get into the weeds and drag down the game but you don't ask questions to prod at the things that bother you only to back off when you think they're faltering.

If he's that worried about a vote miscommunication he can switch the topic.

Third point here is just superbly lazy.

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am i supposed to have said anything about you?

i i wouldn't say cautiously. i was slow to start because i was overgamed and my confidence is shot so i've not had a lot to offer readswise. currently my vote is in the awkward position of being a sheepvote with no shepherd

You're not as dumb as the rest of them and know I'm a scum specialist, but I think you've got very good reason to think I'm town and think so early.

I was OK with you taking time to start but didn't like what I skimmed. Even in Xenoblade it felt like your opinions had a bit more bravado to them, even if they were only one/two words. I think the only one that struck me similarly this game was your "disagree" on Pooky's lockscum DGB, which I found out of place but I don't always understand you.

I'll revisit you when I actually get through your content fully as opposed to halfassed skim.

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I know better than anyone here that you're not at the peak of your motivation and confidence right now. I'm glad to see that you're building yourself back into the game.

But if you're scum, I'm gonna getcha

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Even in Xenoblade it felt like your opinions had a bit more bravado to them, even if they were only one/two words.

i mean that game you said "every time someone says something towny or scummy you come into the thread and say the exact opposite", so

I'm not sure what your point is here, but:

1) I don't feel like this is a fair treatment of our overall interactions that game
2) That comment was both very lighthearted and made literally like 90 pages into Day 1 iirc, well after the vast majority of your posts/reads were made

within context i felt he was saying she was scum for that post, i felt that her scumreading that post from cabd was in-character and a believable read for her to have. also this was page 5.

yeet

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i dislike the word choice of 'bizarre' (in that it feels like you're trying to cast this action in a negative/strange light) and people don't always behave like you think they should in the next sentence.

This is very intentional, and exactly what I am saying.

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The fact that you take issue with me using "bizarre" to cast something in a negative light but are seemingly fine with bork openly strawmanning is ??????

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Xenoblade tl;dr: Everyone and their mother nails first two scum, Cabd most vocal. Cabd guilties third. Fourth scumslips and outs the fifth in the process.

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i'm gonna repeat that i don't actually remember/know what the minutia of your argument is about so much as i skimmed a lot of it, and if he was strawmanning i don't actually remember seeing that happen

I get that you're disagreeing with my description, and don't think it's worth arguing.

I was responding to your casting (lol) of my use of "bizarre" as though it were subversive shade when it was intentionally very overt, "bizarre" was immediately followed with why I did not think it was town at all. It's also staple of my vocabulary.

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- *squints at element's readlist* in 151
- cabd may be town
- oh no i think mena may be scum (sorry i see that you didn't want that to be outed but now that it has idk how to ignore it)

Post you link in 403 is Cabd's #138, which comes before Elements 151. Immediate next 2-3 items seems to be in chronological order?

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Taking a break for dinner, bit under halfway through.

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I'm pretty sure the real answer is that Pooky previously lied about his favorite pizza to win a mafia game

Some people will stop at nothing

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I don't think I'm communicating effectively what I'm saying here peta, but I'll revisit it after I eat+finish reading

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If skitter wants me dead today then I probably die because she’s one of maybe 2/3 players that I’m confident I lose a 1v1 against

This makes me really interested as to what your strategy here is for dealing with skitter as scum.

Reading through page 20/21 I think skitter looks neutral/scumlean, just in that they seem annoyed by having to play around someone's weirdly constructed image.

Mena I am...very torn. 532 sticks out to me because the bit about wanting to sort skitter feels honest. The three sentences preceding it I can see him just being annoyed at bad reasoning as scum but eh. If I had to guess it's town.

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At that point I didn't have any reason to think you were voting me for misrepresenting what you were trying to say in 233, and it took a lot from me to get to that admission to the point where it just seemed like you were trying to talk circles around me instead of answering.

This interpretation of my vote is still is wrong. My vote, again, came before what I claim is a strongman. My vote was not for the misrepresentation, but for a combination of feeling like you didn't have good faith in your questioning and scumpings from earlier posts. I intentionally left this vague for reaction.

And after all that, I think the fact that you're latching on to the fact that I said "write them off" instead of "town read them for now" as something I find hard to believe someone would genuinely think,

That was one part, the other was the playing up how strong I said they were playing.

I don't think it's implausible to leap ahead to a much stronger formulation as town but when I have the mindset that you came in looking to discredit/score points off me from the get-go, it does not lend to me giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Like I think the fact that reads can change should be self evident. You made it about that instead of about what I was really asking about - the grouping of three players that, to a lot of people, would be arbitrary.

I literally answered your question for why it was still a bad idea. I took issue with your much stronger formulation.

It also seemed like you came out of the gate in 242 looking to scumread me no matter what I followed up with (this is utterly 100% subjectively my opinion), and I think generally the best way to deal with that is to move on for the moment, as the longer that goes on the less I can tell the difference between a well intentioned tunneler and scum who want to clog up the game thread with minutiae during this type of interaction.

Strange. It's like I scumread you already in 233. I really doubt you still fail to see why I fucking hated 242 given the words spilled over it. I did not have to look hard to find a reason to hate it.

The fact that after a few days later you're basically just egging me on at every point to regurgitate the same conversation for the third time is not a town thing to do.

I can get this from my interaction w/ skitter regarding you but I'm confused as to why you think this from the post I quoted. It is literally me acknowledging that I completely forgot my vote, and clarifying the timeline without doing so aggressively or asking you anything to draw back in, only to make sure you understood my perspective.

The fact that after a few days later you're basically just egging me on at every point to regurgitate the same conversation for the third time is not a town thing to do.

Part of me wondered if you thought me an easy target after Illicit, not necessarily to get wagoned but to at least score points off of. I will quickly put it to rest.

Don't know where any of this comes from; I barely know you, have no reason to think you're a weak player, and and it just serves to do nothing but attribute nonexistent scum motivation for engaging with you.

This was literally just a pet theory, but you were in Illicit and I was intentionally a very, very different player than the one I am now.

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I'm very fine powertunneling this. Bork leaping to assumptions was bad but still plausibly town, but there is little chance the section that's "100% subjective" about me determined to find something wrong with his response regardless is a load of garbage.

You do not have to squint hard at all to see why I thought this post was a strawman:

The only context needed is that we're talking about Elements townreading all of Syr/Cabd/Ffery.

I think even without knowing them, and only seeing this game, this holds true, though.

This is really the crux: curious as to why you think this

Three active, strong posters.

VOTE: borkjerfkin

Come on, this game isn't exactly filled w/ shlubs and I don't feel like they've been dominating the game in any real perceivable capacity that it's too dangerous to write them all off
in any event it's a really weird reason to vote me for asking about

[Prism]

but there is little chance the section that's "100% subjective" about me determined to find something wrong with his response regardless is a load of garbage.

Switching grammatical structure on the fly once again comes back to bite me lmao

[Prism]

Walk it through in your own words, Skitter. Let's hear it.

[Prism]

I can actually still see a world in which bork fails to understand both why I voted and why 242 is so terrible. It does exist.

But I'm very eager to hear from skitter what scum motivation has come out of what I just posted.

[Prism]

239. 242 is a post of mine. I really keep the hits coming.

[Prism]

Bork actually has no reason to circle back to this fight as scum here. He also doesn't have reason to still blatantly get the timeline wrong.

The joys.

UNVOTE:

[Prism]

This is pretty rough since I have a lot of incentive to dodge that 1v1 as scum. This is going to be a fun next 10 pages.

[Prism]

bork, can you walk through why you still seem to think my vote in 233 was prompted by the misrepresentation of 239, in the context of 497?

And do you, at the most basic level, disagree that you drastically overstated my point to discredit it in 239?

[Prism]

how could i possibly fucking think this lol

you voted me obviously for something from 225, but you used 239 as post-hoc justification for this every time i tried to engage about 233

At that point I didn't have any reason to think you were voting me for misrepresenting what you were trying to say in 233

I dunno man, you tell me why I think this???

Half of this entire argument has been me saying that 249 was wrong to attribute my vote to the strawman.

Half my wall just now was about how my vote

wasn't for the strawman

I have made it repeatedly clear that I questioned how good your faith was in initially asking way back to the arbitrary trio question, as I just linked you, in conjunction with the "hint of a townread" comment, and it

turns out I had even voted you for that previously only to forget about it

I have literally tried to get the timeline straight for you on my read again and again. Virtually every line of mine has made clear

my vote was not for the strawman

[Prism]

And do you, at the most basic level, disagree that you drastically overstated my point to discredit it in 239?

yes

okay, scratch that, there is no reasoning with you whatsoever then if you're going to be this obtuse, just going to go back to reading the game

[Prism]

Like, I will clearly state my interpretation of your viewpoint:

I provided a brief answer for the significance of the trio that you did not like. I voted you in the same post. You prodded further with a (totally not overblown) restatement to highlight the perceived weakness in 239. I did not like this. You think that I'm using 239 as an after-the-fact justification with my vote. Hopefully you also classify my other repeated explanations-about questioning your faith in prodding from the get-go, and about the hint of a townread on ffery-as again after the fact revisionism.

Is this accurate?

[Prism]

(Like, I'm trying not to be mean here, but you're basically saying at this point that the only way I can be town here is if I'm just being mentally inept in some way and I'm sorry but I take issue with that.)

I am challenging you to look at 239 from my perspective, by starting with the fact your framing was meant to undermine/discredit my point. If you cannot even admit it was to undermine my point-which unlike a strawman, is not inherently a bad thing-then talking about my reaction is completely worthless. It's a nonstarter.

[Prism]

Pretty lazy and doesn't make sense given it came after the timing of the bork post.

[Prism]

(Like, I'm trying not to be mean here, but you're basically saying at this point that the only way I can be town here is if I'm just being mentally inept in some way and I'm sorry but I take issue with that.)

I am challenging you to look at 239 from my perspective, by starting with the fact your framing was meant to undermine/discredit my point. If you cannot even admit it was to undermine my point-which unlike a strawman, is not inherently a bad thing-then talking about my reaction is completely worthless. It's a nonstarter.

This might be the wrong approach given your concern about me wanting to obscure the original vote reasoning for 233, it might be better to start from the beginning, but it is also very important that you understand why I reacted the way I did in 242 and on.

[Prism]

idk if 984 is addressed to me or not

It is, townread me out of the bork interactions before w/ no further work on that front, plausible you saw bork's post and figured it was as good a time as any but I'm skeptical.

[Prism]

i also don't like 963, and how you're fine powertunneling bork after his ... pretty reasonable post?

This feels like someone who has not read into the post but at this point I'm yelling at a cloud.

and then i hate that you backed off like four posts later, but tbf that happened after my vote

Don't blame anyone on that front.

[Prism]

I don't see how this gets to the point where you claim I'm trying to say that I'm trying to argue something factually false - I'd expect your reaction there to be first "he or I obviously don't understand something about this conversation" but that's not what happened

Okay, we're getting somewhere.

I interpret this as primarily referring to 253. I took "and how was me not grokking it?" as very leading, which coming right off the heels of what I perceived as a strawman, I was not inclined to give you the benefit of doubt here.

Respectfully, a lot of my posts have been that I

couldn't believe

you would continue to argue something factually false. This is why I've tried clearing up the timeline repeatedly, which was the intent with my last post especially since I realized I did indeed miss a vote earlier.

It is probably worth considering whether my vote on you previously suggests that I

did

find that post about ffery scummy, even if you do not agree with the reasoning I gave in 253.

Posts like 280 and 858 have a lot more goodwill than I think you're attributing. The intent of the latter was not to pull you back into an argument, even if this was the result.

[Prism]

Actually, I take that back, because you voted me in 233 and I was trying to figure out why, and all stuff you mentioned later on was either 239+ or stuff that didn't happen in 225. I was trying to suss out what your deal w/ 225 was and I got this mess.

The quoted reason was given in my reply to 239. It was structured such that I said I didn't like 239, and briefly explained [my vote] by stating that I did not like your previous posts starting with.

Whether this is revisionism gets decided with my flip, I'm restating to again make sure we are on the same page.

[Prism]

ur response wasn't, and u switching your appraoch just afterwards was kinda gross

guess i'll take it up with the mafia judging god in the sky later

[Prism]

I'm about to have to go to bed

re: 980, I called you scum for:

A) Hint of scumread post
B) Thinking that you were looking to defeat my point rather than sort my alignment, I found the arbitrary trio question bad but the first followup (not #239) worse
C) Strawmanning/asking leading questions
D) Refusing to acknowledge why I might legitimately dislike 239 (961 and 963)

A/B were the reasons I voted but not really explained until 242, and not explained completely until much later. C was the thing I really hated when you responded, D is my most recent posting.

There is no world in which you are stupid or mentally inept, regardless of your alignment.

There is a world where you are town and

I

think are stubbornly refusing to see my point about 239, and more reasonably but subjectively shuffling the rest of my read as revisionism. There is a world in which you are scum and just wallvoted to have a place to be, or less likely but ~maybe~ even saw that I would essentially commit suicide sorting you.

[Prism]

I suspect there's one last missing link to explain but that's enough thread overload for now, at least until we get on the same page about what's already posted.

And I'm sorry to everyone for the garbage I'm making you sift through.

[Prism]

It's 5.

I'm really just trying to chew on bork/skitter's posts while I'm in bed but some things don't get to be that simple.

[Prism]

Bork, mostly I'm bothered that you're ignoring my most charitable posts and kind of just sniping where you can. I've summarized your viewpoint accurately. As far as I can tell, you have made no attempt to frame mine for clarity. This is important. It doesn't mean admitting I'm town.

Skitter, I have many incentives as scum to pull back from the 1v1 but it's hardly mystifying. I explain what makes me unvote in the same post, and it's clear I'm pondering bork town in the post before. It is also very obvious that I got sidetracked before finishing the reread and the posts you said would clear up your view.

[Prism]

Respectfully Peta this feels like you know I'm town and want no part of it.

Figuring out skitter/bork is really annoying given I have meta on neither.

[Prism]

Realizing bork scum probably

didn't

intend for this to be a 1v1 opens this up more.

I would probably deathtunnel skitter were it not for the fact that both being scum would be extremely brazen.

[Prism]

858 was me realizing I had placed the earlier vote, but it didn't change the timeline much because, well, it was never about the first vote to begin with.

You refusing to summarize why I scumread you or acknowledge why I might not have liked 239 is mystifying to me. The olive branch I've extended is by going far, far out of my way to see your perspective even though it involves dismissing all of my own beliefs (Revisionist accusation, straw man)

You also keep ignoring that 242, which explains I didn't like any of your posts back to ffery, is immediately my response to you asking about my vote and act like it took pulling teeth.

I don't regret giving you the longer leash here, even if it might wind up undeserved. I will probably better sort you when you get a days rest and review.

[Prism]

Ie. 858 didn't have a point. It was just me rereading, then saying "Oh hey, now I see why bork said I revoted-I was always talking about the 233 vote to be clear"

Nothing about it was an invitation to wrestle in mud.

[Prism]

Perhaps this is the biggest obstacle here.

(Like, I'm trying not to be mean here, but you're basically saying at this point that the only way I can be town here is if I'm just being mentally inept in some way and I'm sorry but I take issue with that.)

I am challenging you to look at 239 from my perspective, by starting with the fact your framing was meant to undermine/discredit my point. If you cannot even admit it was to undermine my point-which unlike a strawman, is not inherently a bad thing-then talking about my reaction is completely worthless. It's a nonstarter.

Given the text of 239, it completely eludes me why you won't acknowledge you were trying to undermine my "Strong, active players" point as a baseline.

This doesn't require admitting a straw man or that you framed my statement incorrectly. We undermine each other's arguments all the time with the best intentions.

[Prism]

I'm at E-2 DGB, now's your golden chance.

[Prism]

I should probably be deathtunneling skitter regardless. Thinking in terms of 1/1 is a mistake. Individually her push has been terrible and intentionally taking advantage of the fact that no one will get into the weeds. It makes little sense to shove this without really doing so herself. Her claims to have done so leave me very, very skeptical.

[Prism]

In 999, I'm referring to trying to communicate effectively with bork. There is no scum or town case. Later pages give me less confidence it is unintentional. Picking a 1v1 is dumb but stumbling into one against someone who is borderline trolling by not being more selective is when decent play is met with good fortune.

[Prism]

Really annoyed that you bothered asking that when I am the first to admit it's a wall of incomprehensible garbage to third parties, literally in the post you quoted.

[Prism]

Very likely Skitter, with a medium chance of beefycheese meatballs.

Beyond that? No clue. Bork was my scumread and who I was pushing well before his response wall, and I wavered when I realized he had no incentive to pick that 1v1

[Prism]

Peta's a decent candidate. Others like Pooky/benhalkum are a bit more coinflippy to me. Syr felt okay in the first 20 pages, I:d have to fetch the post I liked on my laptop. Pizza/you/Vax are townleans and I would be shocked if Elements were scum. Ffery and candy are puzzles. Anyone I'm forgetting?

[Prism]

Nope, and I'm not on my laptop so I'm not going to make one.

I have very low confidence that you, or anyone sane really, would try and tackle it seriously in any case, because it would require sorting through my and Bork's garbage.

[Prism]

Read my ISO and figure out what I hate for yourself if you want. I'm not amused by asking questions whose sole purpose is to mock me via points I readily admit already. At least be enlightening or insightful.

[Prism]

Very likely Skitter, with a medium chance of beefycheese meatballs.

Beyond that? No clue. Bork was my scumread and who I was pushing well before his response wall, and I wavered when I realized he had no incentive to pick that 1v1

hey you should actually read me, figure out i'm fucking town, and then we can talk

Maybe it's your turn to princess carry me.

I might skim your ISO if you really want, but I don't really need my knight anyway. I definitely saw no towntells in my skim of the game.

[Prism]

I spent 3 minutes reading you, very in-depth.

You aren't getting a townread, you have your positives but a decent read on DGB and a clever angle on Ben does not make a town Peta.

[Prism]

I'm not going to cry if I don't read you correctly Day 1 when I have much more important things to tackle.

I'm not blaming you for not having me hardtown either. I was originally shocked you didn't vote me after I unvoted bork, and figured scum you stays way the hell away from my wagon. Thinking about it you've got more freedom than that and it's not so cut/dry.

[Prism]

Ton of scum incentive, looks like trash, pretty natural imo but like I said after thinking more on it there are many reasons you wouldn't just hop on.

[Prism]

With you peta, it's really tough to figure out what your scum approach would be largely because of two things: 1) Exactly how your recent mood/demotivation interacts with the things you know you

should

do B) the specific team

A lot of my flip to skeptical came because I imagined that scum you knows you have to be more involved and convincing with reads, but might be lacking in the will and confidence to carry those through. This is why the lukewarm/very safe late entry worried me.

[Prism]

LePeta James, supposed to be the Chosen One but looking like the FROZEN one.

Guess I should finally actually sleep now.

Concur on Vax Ffery, not 100% town but a decent lean. I did kind of tell them flat out that the abrasive attitude was backfiring. Either way their posts shot way up when they started being more open.

[Prism]

Morning Pooky

I don't want to say you owe me, but I was willing to get into the weeds and evaluate your slapfight with catboi in Undertale multiple times. It'd be nice if you could do the same.

Tracking my futile attempts at clarity with bork is probably a waste of time, but tracking my progression+vote on bork in the 200s is very straightforward.

Okay peta, I ain't afraid of you, you're now town, congratulations. This did not happen with your role PM but with my decree.

We've come a long way from those innocent times

This was legitimate, I liked the fact that he was present and joking around to begin with, but the real focus was just to keep him around and hopefully get him in a comfortable rhythm.

[Prism]

I have a lot I want to comment on but my house is 8C and I do not have a heater. Typing kind of sucks. Help.

[Prism]

I wasn't really bothered by Syr early and concurred that people weren't giving them enough credit for sorting. You can joke around and still give content. Liking me more than FGO made a lot of sense given how diametrically opposed my entrance was from FGO.

This was the only thing I disliked:

Our last two games are the only games I've played in years though?

Watching you and Cabd interact is far more telling than anything I could say or ask.

That's how I read you in smoke. So what's the problem here, exactly?

I feel a great disturbance in my nap. As if syr is leaning too hard into the shit posting realm to dodge Ffery and I, and it's scary.

Ffery I think we might have to end him for mercy.

Ffery and I are busy. Shoo.

Saying stay out of Syr/ffery's interactions is a bit different than sorting via ffery-Cabd interactions, but it's weird to not want to see more Cabd-ffery interactions with yourself added as a bonus.

Seeing it followed by this is kinda bizarre:

My vote is less about ffery being town and more about Cabd being scum. Back when ffery and I were sorting each other on page 10 or so he hopped in a couple times to egg ffery into scumreading me, or at least prevent us from townreading each other. Now, he's done it again, except with bork and ffery. Me too a bit, but the primary interaction was between ffery and bork. I should have known after all that pantomime sighing about never drawing a red PM

This one seems a lot more plausible than the first I quoted. I get that you're saying Cabd is trying to run interference on two towns finding each other by jumping in with something like this vote.

I'm just confused as to what ffery/Cabd interactions you're actually looking forward to reading since the attempts Cabd has made to engage have been met with hostility.

[Prism]

W/r/t Pooky I think they're pretty null for me. Vote on me is plausible either way, maybe as town they feels a bit more hesitant but I'm not even going to try to call it.

Everything I'm seeing up to page like 32 is pretty par for the course with what I saw from Undertale. Friendly, little game commentary or analysis, and preemptively talking about when Pooky/someone else flips etc. The one thing to really note is actually trying to dig into+frame the skitter/Mod Pizza argument, but I think a scum Pooky trying to get a townread has a ton of incentive to try. I know Mod Pizza clarified his stance further+took issue with Pooky's characterization but mine at that point lined up pretty closely (I think just minus the Menayeet section)

They're hardnull to me. I'm really looking to just kick that can down the road for later. They're capable of much better analysis and it will come with time if he's town. I am confident in my ability to read them later down the line and am content to let Pooky be themselves for now.

[Prism]

Is this about me?

No, it's referring to Syr reacting with hostility to Cabd's perceived insertions into ffery-Syr and ffery-bork interactions.

Wanting to read you via your interactions with Cabd makes this hostility weird to me, more the first than the second.

[Prism]

Town
=====
Elements
Mod Pizza
DGB
Vaxkiller
benhalkum
petapan
Syryana
Pooky
fferyllt
Cabd
borkjerfkin
skitter30
=====
Scum

Briefly commenting/updating on a few others I haven't really touched on:

-I liked Mod Pizza out of the whole skitter interaction. There's a world where he thinks engineering a 1v1 is the way to get a townread but I never really got that impression, especially when he made it clear with his unvote that it didn't mean a townread. Hard to tell w/o knowing Mena but I'm fine slotting it as town for now.

-DGB I mostly just liked for 587 but all of the 500s are solid imo. Her interactions with me are incredibly annoying but not wrong and not scummy.

-peta is going to hate being lower than benhalkum. Peta, your posts w/r/t DGB and liking Elements' 161 were good. I'm a bit skeptical of how safe your questioning is of ben but you're not wrong to press here. He's higher than you because of how different the tone is from the game skitter linked. IDK fella you're not really scumtelling but there's nothing you've done here that you wouldn't do as scum either.

-ffery/Pooky/Syr/Cabd zone I have no fucking clue. ffery's only +town read to me really is their Rube Goldberg on Pooky. I am very puzzled by how their scum model based off 2-3 deadthread posts about how scum needed to be more proactive points to me town but whatever. I don't like Cabd avoiding weighing in on me/bork entirely, I can see it as town but given that he's significantly more familiar than I am with bork it's strange that he's dodging it entirely.

[Prism]

I'm caught up but haven't really reviewed the pages of me really trying harder w/ bork/skitter that I scumread.

Those stressed me out a lot last night. Any time I don't feel like I'm being understood takes a very heavy toll on me, and I always blame myself for it and strive to reach further and further to try and make that connection and give more and more benefit of the doubt. I did a better job of stepping away from myself in the 1040s but I really want more distance here. It's very important that I think correctly on these two, and to do that I need to be able to stay relaxed.

[Prism]

mind going a little loner on this? i wanted to push him for a reaction but couldn't get a real good bearing and if you have more insight on it i'd like to hear it because i clearly don't parse the words as well as you

Sure, it's this game

Ben's a lot more careful to explain his reads here (ex. 161, which follows 147) and generally has a much more assertive presence in his reads, especially with how he sells them to others. (633's language about his own alignment sticks out to me)

#683 isn't right about DGB imo but is pretty natural, the only post of his this game that gave me the same vibes as the scum one was #705.

[Prism]

This was like a ~5 minute skim since I was mid rereading and my hands are freezing so it hurts to scroll lmao, I don't place a ton of stock into it but I dunno. They are thoughts I possess.

[Prism]

Rereading 683 it's a little more out there than I thought while skimming, now that I really sit and understand that he's making a point about DGB shading skitter.

I can't figure out if this is more or less natural

[Prism]

Yeah, easily.

I wasn't really bothered by Syr early and concurred that people weren't giving them enough credit for sorting. You can joke around and still give content. Liking me more than FGO made a lot of sense given how diametrically opposed my entrance was from FGO.

This was the only thing I disliked: [Question about hostility you're referring to]

[Prism]

If anything it's probably ffery that should be higher just because they haven't done anything I've actively disliked, but that leaves a bad taste in my mouth too, I want to see more.

[Prism]

No, I more meant that you included syr in that second blurb, but then really didn't add additional context on him, and he was not in the same "zone" as the rest of us as well?

Maybe I'm misreading your stuff.

? The context for him being in that zone was the post I just quoted about him

Syr/Pooky I had just dedicated posts to in 1091 and 1093 immediately before my list.

My blurb is preceded by this which makes it clear who I'm choosing to comment on:

Briefly commenting/updating on a few others I haven't really touched on:

This is why I talk about only you/ffery despite all 4 of you being in the same zone.

[Prism]

No clue what you mean by not in the same zone, all 4 of you that I say are in the ??? zone are consecutive in the list.

[Prism]

Prism if you want me to go into why I feel like your play here doesn't match what I gleaned from your play/commentary in the FGO game I'm willing to unpack it to a point.

I think it's a really bad way to read me but I think verifying would be a mutual waste of time.

No even a tiny bit on board with eliming Cabd.

If it helps I'm not either, despite being 3rd on my list I'm really only planning on voting one of bork/skitter.

Me not picking probably looks sketchy as hell but I really want to take my time and revisit those pages when I can do it without stressing myself out.

[Prism]

somewhat notable that vote was a bus vote, which are always the easiest to explain, but point taken his posting feels less constructed here. still really need him to answer my question about his progression on vax (if he ever comes back to this game) because i may have worked myself into a shoot there, but i think i'm probably okay with him being outside the kill zone for day 1, i think.

Yeah at some people I'll circle back. I don't like halfassing but life is short. C'est la vie. I'm happy to get more out of him so go for it.

Probably going to step away for a bit just so I think about something besides this game for a few hours and curb any obsessive tendencies.

[Prism]

I should be around in like ~2 hours.

Ffery/Syr, think on if there's any reads you want to discuss with me.

[Prism]

peta you get nothing, not even a hello

[Prism]

VOTE: prism

If you want something from me, you're better off asking.

You didn't get anything from me the first time because there was nothing for me to respond to or engage with.

[Prism]

peta you get nothing, not even a hello

your tsundere act won't hold up forever

It'll last until you put a ring on it.

Wait, I called you my son earlier this game. Little weird ngl

[Prism]

I understand that the context was more hostile in the former than genuinely cooperative. I guess this might be more of a playstyle commentary: You got your chance to get the kind of interactions you wanted, and let them slip completely.

I look forward to hearing why I shouldn't have skitter that low.

[Prism]

Elements/benhalkum are weak but Vax's revote essentially forecloses any chance they're scum imo, despite it coming after my list.

[Prism]

Actually, this is more fun: Why should I buy them being higher than me, specifically?

[Prism]

Nothing would make me happier than for both of you to become obviously town.

Or scum, if you're that kind.

[Prism]

I missed my morning workout after staying up too late last night. I've got the blood flowing and the Linkin Park on and I'm a bit too eager to fight for my own good.

[Prism]

I'll actually try my best to step away for the night. I'll let Cabd/Ffery sort to their hearts' content, and maybe the bear will give something besides empty talk while they're at it. More bork content should also be good for me and I'm not particularly worried about giving scum space to operate, if he even is at all.

In return, please don't let me come back to <25 posts tomorrow.

[Prism]

Rein in obsession, rein in aggression, limit my own space.

[Prism]

In that case, I'd focus on the 200s. If Bork is convinced I'm trying to distract from my vote, might as well go directly there.

Timeline nonsense tl;dr is "I voted you before the strawman" "Yeah but you seemed determined to scumread me and are using it as a weird after-the-fact justification, other reasons you give are later"

Okay, stop baiting me back in, bye and have fun.

...Loser.

[Prism]

I'll reply to this all in the morning. I will not get into the mud with you tonight. If you're worried I'm running, hold the rest.

[Prism]

I'm pleasantly surprised by the last few pages. I'm glad to see the space I left open taken advantage of, and I'm happy to remember the value of being quiet and in trusting the other players as opposed to trying to do everything myself.

Thank you, and I hope you all have a good night. I'll rejoin in the morning.

[Prism]

I guess I assumed that 858 was one of the charitable posts I was ignoring. If that's not what you meant then whatever, disregard

It

should've

had a point though - a legitimate miscommunication did happen and instead you're basically framing it like it's just a lack of understanding on my end and now that you've clarified your position I should get on the same page as you instead of reevaluating the context of our entire conversation and really fucking undermines how clear you're apparently being.

I don't consider that sort of "I'm so confident in my worldview that i can't understand how you have the opinion you do" attitude to be inherently scummy, but every interaction you've had with me has been you immediately jumping up my ass about something and when I react in a way that states that I don't see things the way you do, much less getting combative in response, your response is pointing and saying "bork's being unreasonable because he's not acknowledging that he's trying to undermine my argument" and i don't think you legitimately believe that

I have spent the better part of ~12 hours trying to figure out a response to this that I think will be productive.

I feel there isn't one. You have confirmed my understanding of your viewpoint repeatedly. At no point have you convinced me of the same for mine.

I will not respond to or address you on this topic again, though I might others. I will backlink you 982 and 998 as general, non-specific parting gifts of reference should you wish to review my slot.

[Prism]

(Pretend I quoted the other questions too)

why are you not voting me ???

It's very easy to miss 1103 since it seems irrelevant to this at first, but I explain a bit there along with 1128

Starting with my read on bork, this was evolving realtime here. My instinct was that he had no reason to try and 1v1 outright like that...but it's not quite so cut and dry. Positioning for a 1v1 with a wallpost doesn't mean you're actually seeking one, he could have equally been looking for a place to park or just muddy the game. I already didn't really like you but felt you were immediately moving to take advantage of a town 1v1 to demoralize it. Both scum was also possible, but me being right on two people voting me is not something I would bet on in any world. At this point, in conjunction with realizing I was thinking incorrectly about bork's scum motivation, I decided I needed to slow down drastically and revisit the posting only when I was confident I could avoid getting emotional or stressed over it.

Some of this stress is from the stakes, but other forms are just from my nature: the prospect of anyone not understanding what I'm saying is an absolutely crushing thing for me, and my first instinct is to do whatever I can to fix it. With bork, if he's scum there's no point in really trying, and if he's town it required a lot more than my erratic attempts.

It is very, very important that I get my reads on both of you correctly. Successfully flipping the elimination to one of you only to have them flip town is likely to lose the game outright, even if the other were scum. I'm rereading the pages today for the first time since they happened and will try to find a vote, but I am very determined to play it slow.

[Prism]

how would it make u feel if I told u I actually do this a lot as scum

Pretty indifferent, very standard tactic and you're not a pet rock.

iirc I asked about your strategy for scum skitter to begin with because I thought it was a viable strategy to engineer the townread.

I never got the feeling that was what you were doing and I'm content to shove the question aside for now.

[Prism]

What makes me so skeptical of you is that I don't think you start selling the wagon for a tonal skim of the two wallposts. I can see a reflex vote for gut. I don't see why you actively try to sell the wagon to others without actually taking the time to study the problem, and if you actually did get into the weeds, I would be even more skeptical of the result.

Thinking bork is town and I'm scum despite seeing my viewpoint is completely fine to me, but there are very transparently terrible hills he has chosen to die on. The simplest is his refusal to acknowledge that 239 was at least trying

undermine

my point, even without the strawman label. This is insanely obtuse.

[Prism]

It's referring to you skitter, and to the wallpost vote+response I gave that sparked your vote.

It might not be worth responding to, chance of debating the merits of the two wallposts and dragging bork and this conversation back out of the woodwork is high.

My point is I don't feel you take the step of getting a wagon w/o digging in, and I, obviously being myself who wrote the response, thought there were very glaring issues if you did dig

[Prism]

I'm going to go read for a bit but I'm really hesitant to pursue that line too heavily, on the one hand it'd probably be useful for me to read you with but on the other forcing you to work through it publicly risks completely destroying the game.

I'd rather just read around it.

[Prism]

I woke up wanting to vote Cabd.

I missed this, why?

[Prism]

Weirdly that is the best post you have made all game, better than any reads.

Suddenly I'm a ffery-stan.

Spoiler: Secret message for ffery do not open

Your read on me sucked btw LMAO

[Prism]

Actually I'm not gonna gut dartthrow this based off a single post

Get back in the null pile, go on, get.

[Prism]

Do you like rolling scum?

Dunno haven't rolled it since Chara's Folly. I thought I hated it for a long time and would joke about yeeting my computer out the window if I didn't roll town. Illicit/Chara's Folly were when I realized I hated town, too. After kicking it up a notch in Chara's and finding myself enjoying it, I now suspect it's halfassing games that I hate, not any particular alignment.

This happened disproportionately as scum because I have a very bad habit of playing to the level of the table. In Scumsman, I outright thought the town was playing so terribly it was not worth me playing. Other games, like The Thaw, are more engaging.

So I can't answer whether I'd like it or not, but I suspect it'd be equal to town.

My style is pretty consistent throughout, though. The easiest way to get into my head for how I think as scum is this post:
I took simultaneous notes of what I was aiming for in my posts and why I made each one in Scumsman.

[Prism]

It is useful to think of me as an anti-Regfan. He's the extreme town specialist, I'm the extreme scum specialist.

I don't think it's a bad comparison though given the many years we played and that his style was the one I copied circa ~2011, even if I've definitely put my own spin on it since.

[Prism]

Probably the biggest departure from Regfan is that I've picked up the pace of my play considerably, but how we get reads is probably still very similar. However, mine are categorically worse in quality.

[Prism]

I've been kind of gut checking your play against Empire and Regfan for what are probably horrible reasons,

they're all clowns so it fits

Can tell because you start crying every time one is mean to you

[Prism]

wait, prism isn't your earliest account?

We're not from MS originally.

I made the latest transition by far.

[Prism]

at the time i was entertaining it b/c i was willing to ride along with prism and go with his townreads

FWIW I only feel really good about Vax with Elements a notch below, Ele read is almost entirely drawn off the start and contrast w/ Undertale

I feel a lot better about Bork/Skitter but am currently sidetracked by ~actual work~

[Prism]

at the time i was entertaining it b/c i was willing to ride along with prism and go with his townreads

I feel a lot better about Bork/Skitter but am currently sidetracked by ~actual work~

Better as in more confident

My other townleans are very fuckin dart throw

[Prism]

So many words, so few about the game itself. Talking about other games, meta, arguments about god-knows-what...

It's the opposite of solving the game. It's a fog of confusion.

In general sure but meta/other games was a direct reply to a question from ffery.

[Prism]

I feel like prism is our comprise vote.

If I'm the compromise, who are your top choices?

You kept a brief vote on Pooky but the only point that pressed it was 1385, after you had already revoted me. Can you give us an update on where you're at in general?

[Prism]

Unvoting me there doesn't seem like scum Pooky? Reinforces the read on DGB but he can literally just keep AFK voting like he's been doing all game long with 0 issues

[Prism]

Who avoids this actual game more than you? I'll vote them instead of you.

Your point is fine and I don't take issue with it, only clarifying a specific instance.

[Prism]

My guess is your vote put me at E-3?

Bork, Vax, Pooky, you?

[Prism]

Okay, I've finished rereading pages 39 and 40

VOTE: bork

963 is true, 970 is wrong. 975 rings insincere.

Willfully ignores that I instantly separated the issues of the reason for my vote (earlier posts) from hating the strawman in my reply to it in 242, not fazed at all by earlier vote telegraphing that I did indeed scumread the ffery line.

Skitter probably going to be more difficult.

[Prism]

Who avoids this actual game more than you? I'll vote them instead of you.

Your point is fine and I don't take issue with it, only clarifying a specific instance.

Are you saying Pooky avoids this game more than you?

Y/N

You may have a point.

Yes, but I'm not actually trying to convince you to vote him.

I'm more just annoyed because often the point you mockingly make against me is something I've already agreed with or highlighted despite not being wrong.

I'm a lot of noise because of my style but I've also passed down a lot more judgment on both my reads and those of others than the majority of the table, even if it's a question of volume v. density.

[Prism]

Skitter, what makes you hate the ModPizza take so much in 989?

My first instinct reading this post was you were bullshitting about the timing and I just focused on the bork section.

[Prism]

@Vaxkiller

I feel like prism is our comprise vote.

If I'm the compromise, who are your top choices?

You kept a brief vote on Pooky but the only point that pressed it was 1385, after you had already revoted me. Can you give us an update on where you're at in general?

[Prism]

Peta what is your prism read?

town

but...but my slapfight....

Normally this is the part of the movie where I ask your reasoning, say it's wrong, and then powertunnel tbh

[Prism]

@NPOM: Sorry but I think you have me voting twice atm as a ghost vote on myself, I'm just on bork

[Prism]

The ghost vote came from Vax, I am indeed at 4

[Prism]

In that case peta it's your job to convince me I'm wrong on bork

[Prism]

There is no pay, but it will net you plenty of hands-on experience. The work is gratifying and deeply meaningful.

[Prism]

In that case peta it's your job to convince me I'm wrong on bork

To be clear, you don't have to go deep sea diving, but you do have to persuade me he's town.

It might help to tackle this, can skip the bit about 975.

[Prism]

Do you see some benefit to not discussing/pushing such a read, or more broadly discussing the few others you hint at here, that I'm missing?

[Prism]

At some point I will have to buckle down and actually try to sort both of you and that terrifies me.

I'd really like to here from Syr who essentially has gone AWOL, even Monday's content really wasn't very filling.

[Prism]

If skitter wants me dead today then I probably die because she’s one of maybe 2/3 players that I’m confident I lose a 1v1 against

This makes me really interested as to what your strategy here is for dealing with skitter as scum.

Reading through page 20/21 I think skitter looks neutral/scumlean,

just in that they seem annoyed by having to play around someone's weirdly constructed image.

Mena I am...very torn. 532 sticks out to me because the bit about wanting to sort skitter feels honest. The three sentences preceding it I can see him just being annoyed at bad reasoning as scum but eh. If I had to guess it's town.

@prism i'm pretty sure i followed up with this at the time, i think the bolded is an incredibly inaccurate assessment of why i was annoyed there.
(take a look at 958 ...)

i also didn't like that you liked 532, because from my pov that was kinda the worst post of the bunch

Okay, thanks, I'll try to revisit those pages later.

The impression I gave with the bolded was my impression of what scumSkitter is thinking/having to deal with during those pages, from a town perspective I absolutely expect much more of your focus to be on sorting and interpreting what it meant for Mod's alignment.

At some point you mentioned me not following up to this post too I think, iirc that was when my brain really kicked into hyperactive mode and I was very much thinking elsewhere

[Prism]

idk man maybe vax just can't make up their mind whether to drive the bus or leave it cold out in the rain

p-edit: lmao we all know he's menalque and that they're the same person NPOM it's fine

[Prism]

Uh tbf i actually want to replace in on a public alt, my DC alt

i take it back

NPOM you're doing the lord's work, standing guard for the people

[Prism]

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF SKITTER I DON'T NEED THREE NAMES

[Prism]

Did you remember to add the Kool-Aid?

[Prism]

Can you drop it?

Despite my joking post I'm with you but I don't think harassing the mod about his decision ingame over just saying it's stupid and moving on

P-Edit: Yep