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[Trendall]

Every time I do an OCEAN test or indeed any psychometric tests I get different results, but it seems that I become more and more well balanced over the years

Extraversion - 56%
Agreeableness - 51%
Conscientiousness - 33%
Openness - 59%
Neuroticism - 57%

In reality I am just 100% neuroticism and nothing else, but they never quite ask the right questions.

VOTE: Bugspray

[Trendall]

Slating personality tests is really one of those 'world's most non-controversial opinions' things, where you'll get like ten people all agreeing with each other saying 'personality tests are so dumb!', as if each individual one thinks they're this lone minority voice crusading against the hordes of people who love personality tests. Then if you engage with them they'll tell you that people can't be put into boxes.

---

1. When was the first time you played mafia and do you remember if you liked it?

Years ago some of my friends invited me to play on a private message board, and I don't remember the game too well but I discovered this website and got fascinated by the game reading about the different roles and so on.

2. Why are you playing this current game of mafia now?

Cause I normally play the newbie games, but I joined a mini game a while back and found it really fun, so now I'm trying another one.

3. What is your favorite mafia-like game now? (including games like Among Us and Secret Hitler)

Nothing ever beats epicmafia

4. How many people would you say you interact with offline on a typical day?

There is really no such thing as a 'typical day' for me in terms of whom I interact with, but over the past few weeks it's gonna average out at like 3-4 per day.

5. How many people would you say you interact with online on a typical day?

Really wouldn't know

6. How often do you tell stories?

Not sure I understand the question

7. Do you think that lying is ever OK?

No

8. Do you lie more often online than offline?

Presumably offline, I'm not sure what I'd lie about online exactly or why

9. How good are you at lying?

I wouldn't know because it might be that people know that I'm lying to them and are being too polite to tell me. I generally just prefer to tell the truth, so I hardly get to practice. But I don't remember ever being caught in a situation that I couldn't immediately talk my way out of.

10. Would you rather talk to someone in-person or online?

In person, and then if we don't get to see each other in person v often then msg me constantly every day x

[Trendall]

Yeah I've been in loads of bands, not death metal though.

[Trendall]

Yeah workplaces shouldn't use them.

[Trendall]

I am very intrigued by this player as I have never seen someone approach a game of mafia in this way.

I can tell you now that it's not a very good approach.

[Trendall]

Im voting you. What are your thoughts on that?

It was only a vote to do with activity levels so it didn't interest me very much.

[Trendall]

the statistics and psychographics will lead us further and faster than our pings.

[Trendall]

That's not to do with 'suiting my vocab better' though. With 'inductive reasoning' you can throw out all the statistics and psychometric tests.

[Trendall]

; and you believe when dealing with incomplete information we're forced to rely on intuition or abductive reasoning because there is no other alternative.

I don't believe this at all. I believe that this is going to be a very long game.

[Trendall]

I swear I don't understand like half the words people are saying this game.

[Trendall]

What is the best way to push the game state forward from your pov atm? Is it something you can do on your own?

Sit back, relax. See what transpires. Have a think about the game. Check to see if there are any new posts.

[Trendall]

I got a slight Town ping for how he was at first on board with the personality test and later turned against it. Perhaps as scum it would be easier to just stick to the chosen narrative, but overall not much to go on really.

I actually just love personality tests, like I can sit and do them all day. However I didn't think the method of trying to apply them to this game to figure out people's alignments or anything really was a very good or useful one.

[Trendall]

dw i'll do more later on maybe. Quick update tho I think Momrangal, frogsterking and NoPowerOverMe are more likely to be town and everyone else I have no opinion on. I think my bugspray vote is legit like that could easily be one of the mafia.

[Trendall]

also you both spelled the name wrong

Lol try being me

[Trendall]

Sorry yea I am here

[Trendall]

I think this page says either Gamma or Luca is Mafia.

I agree with this post and happy to get either of those players.

[Trendall]

Actually not Luca necessarily, it's more that I'm happy to eliminate Gamma.

[Trendall]

I'm town go away

[Trendall]

Not particularly. Post #312 is the main reason but also just general vibes.

[Trendall]

Well I mean I can tell you if you like but I'm going to have to go back and like, find stuff from past games to illustrate what it is I'm talking about, so I may or may not get around to doing that, I don't know.

[Trendall]

Sry I'm trying to do like three things at once so haven't bothered to format this properly but check these two links for like, what I'm talking about here -

viewtopic.php?p=12230155#p12230155

viewtopic.php?p=12298023#p12298023

That's me in other games identifying some mafia people

[Trendall]

I'm also most definitely not giving this game the energy it deserves

Is this for irl reasons or something else?

What would the 'something else' possibly be though?

[Trendall]

Well I was just thinking about it and it's more questions which are kinda constructed in the following way -

"Why did you do this, is it for the

obvious reason that it obviously is

, or is there some other reason?

Just I've seen that twice previously now and picked up on it and both times it came from mafia.

[Trendall]

And it's like you are correct that like it could have been that nothing is going on and they just realised they hadn't posted much or whatever, so I can think about that.

[Trendall]

Something about this post feels off to me. Does anyone else see that?

Yeah I looked at that post and didn't like the first line very much.

[Trendall]

This NPOM wagon is awful.

Yeah agreed

[Trendall]

The NoPowerOverMe wagon sounds like it has been generated or influenced by mafia, yeah.

[Trendall]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: OutWorldER

[Trendall]

Come do OWER with me then?

I'm happy to do that lol

[Trendall]

Lunar Martian seems like town to me.

[Trendall]

Actually I don't think either of these wagons now are any good.

[Trendall]

especially after that last paranoid post where he though Luca was talking about him. That sounds like a caught (and not paranoid town) maf.

Ouch

[Trendall]

I had a look at Lunar's ISO and I didn't find anything wrong with them really.

[Trendall]

You know Luca I was thinking about your case and I actually don't believe the meta change is AI, I think Lunar did better in the Newbie game because he was only in one game and the other players were new.

And there are fewer players (9 instead of 13 makes a huge difference), there are different players, it's an open setup, the roles are more basic, it took place at a different time in their life.....

[Trendall]

I don't think game solving on Day 1 is all that helpful. It's more distracting than anything. Let's get an elimination and a night under our belts and then assess where we're at.

Yeah the fact that people spend 30 pages on day one rather than the four or so that it deserves is so weird to me.

[Trendall]

Trendall is advocating an anti - town mindset.

Am not

[Trendall]

I don't mind voting bugspray but I don't think it's the best elimination. They could be maf tho.

[Trendall]

There's a little voice inside my head that's talking me into hammering bugs.

What personality type is it?

[Trendall]

He did say that he's all-neuroticism in his response to the SSS so maybe he is nervous.

Maybe I just can't be bothered because I find your personality stuff unbearable to read. What would I be 'nervous' about sitting at home on my laptop posting on an online forum? I'm like, somebody who barely ever gets nervous, 'neuroticism' comes in a lot of different forms. But you've completely free associated away from your personality type results there and are just speculating, making wrong assumptions, completely using your own imagination while using the language of the personality tests to try and justify and give credence to the fact that all of these observations about people you're making are complete fantasies you're inventing in your own head which don't map onto reality in any significant way whatsoever. Which you've been doing all game and it's like...I can't tell you how this is just my least favourite thing.

[Trendall]

There's been a thought in the back of my mind since the beginning that Frogster just threw out the OCEAN test shit to look smart and accumulate early TR's while being able to throw out a bunch of nonsense to justify his pushes. Securing that thought in my mind is that he himself never shared his results and didn't even link a test in the beginning, refusing to, for some reason. It all seems in very bad faith.

The only thing that stops me thinking that any of this is suspicious is that years and years back I used to spend a lot of time talking to people in personality type communities and so on online, and they literally all talk exactly like that, it's the weirdest thing. Which is why it's ironic that the player called me an 'archetype' somewhere earlier on in the game. Like you can think it's scummy behaviour, but it's identical to the behaviour of somebody who has discovered personality types for the first time and thinks they're the ultimate explanation for everything and are relevant in every situation involving people ever.

Because my point was like...why did they not get us to all do the same test if they were that serious about it? Why get different people to pick their own unverified internet tests which could throw up entirely different results? It all seems like it's not being done in good faith and the person's mafia, absolutely. But then go on to a personality type forum and talk to a couple of them and you see the same sorts of phenomena. This is just how people who have recently got into personality types are, like they don't think.

[Trendall]

I love personality tests and all this sort of thing, I just think the way that you in particular are trying to apply them to this game is bad.

[Trendall]

Yeah sounds fair

[Trendall]

I don't see how scum!Trendall or scum!bugs are expecting to win the game playing today the way they have, unless they are expecting OutWorldER or some deep scum to carry them.

I'm in favour of eliminating OutWorldER though.

[Trendall]

For me Grendel really just reminds me of another player I played a game with who I was sorta low-key suspicious of all game and then just eventually turned out to be town.

[Trendall]

who is there to defend me? Trendall.

Lol I won't waste my time then. Let's all get this then because there was a fair amount of support for eliminating Lunar yesterday, so we can just like, get it done now.

VOTE: Lunar Martian

[Trendall]

It's just odd, since Trendall seemed very confident

I did two posts about you I think. One said

"Lunar Martian seems like town to me"

and the other said

"I had a look at Lunar's ISO and I didn't find anything wrong with them really"

. If you want to interpret that as somebody who is 'very confident' then there's not a lot I can do about that.

[Trendall]

You reckon I 'went out of my way' by typing those two sentences?

[Trendall]

Like wow I had a town read on somebody

[Trendall]

What 'changing story'? Like where lmao. And where was I 'confident' in anything and where did I 'go to great effort' or whatever you said to defend you? You are just making stuff up.

[Trendall]

I'm Mafia and wanting me dead.

If I was mafia I'd have no reason to care if you're dead or not.

[Trendall]

Knowing who is in the hood would've helpped me slove the game i think. But now you cant do that without narrowing the PoE for scum hunting town prs significantly.

If you're going to 'solve the game', then actually he can, and it makes no difference because town will just eliminate all the mafia anyway. Like you tell us who the mafia are, we eliminate one tonight, then they kill a PR, then we get the second mafia, then...until we have won. So actually the only remaining thing that needs to happen in this game is that bugs tells Grendel who's in the neighbourhood and we're only a few posts away from this game being done and dusted.

[Trendall]

Lunar's surprising and compelling case on Trendall

Which to reiterate is 'Trendall had a townread on me and is therefore mafia'

[Trendall]

Right now I see two competing theories:

1) Luca, OutWorldER and Lunar are town, Bugs is obvscum possibly along with Trendall and there are one or more deep scum.

2) Galron, Trendall and Bugs are town, Lunar and OutWorldER are obvscum and there is one deep scum who in this scenario I propose as Gamma.

I don't see how in one possibility one person can be 'obvious' and in another possibility the same person can be town. And 'obvscum possibly' is like...

[Trendall]

Something's either obvious or it isn't

[Trendall]

And if something is 'obvious' then that should supersede the different theories and apply across all of them.

[Trendall]

If something's relying on A to be true before it becomes evidently true itself then that's hardly 'obvious'.

[Trendall]

the statistics and psychographics will lead us further and faster than our pings.

I guess I will sheep you onto Trendall because he's annoying and doesn't do anything

So it's going well then?

[Trendall]

Yeah I really wish I had the time to discuss what I'm like in real life and how it relates to this mafia game. I'm sorry Frogsterking but the majority of that post isn't terribly accurate (you got the poor impulse control bit correct and that's basically it) and the disingenuous mental gymnastics of your trying to claim that I myself claimed those things about my own personality is like...I just have no idea what the fresh hell I just read to be honest. I'm not really interested in any of your criticisms of me on a personal level, you're presuming that the way that I choose to approach a mafia game is broadly representative of what my entire personality is like in real life, and it just isn't, I'm a character in a mafia game. On epicmafia years back I had different accounts and they all had different personalities like one was always cool and laid back, one was very talkative and frenetic and so on. I have no idea how to explain this and I have no objection to having a big conversation about how this relates to major insecurities I may have about myself or mental health issues I may have been diagnosed with and so on, but this is just a thing with me, I like screwing around with different online personas and one of the many reasons why I love this game is that it's a roleplaying game and I

in theory

should be able to just do that with the underlying understanding between all the players being that when you're in the game and just when you're online generally, you don't go about things the same as you do irl, so nothing in the way of a player being manipulative or critical or anything such as this necessarily reflects onto how they are as a person. To reiterate you're a character in a roleplaying game. When you start to focus too much on people's real life personalities, then it might not even be relevant for reasons such as this. But more importantly, the game basically turns into 'let's eliminate the person with the worst personality, who can win by attacking who's character the hardest?' which...I mean to be perfectly honest I'd probably prefer that as a game, but we signed up for a game of mafia so I don't think the real life stuff is useful.

[Trendall]

And I feel like everyone knows how good a liar they are, especially if they do sometimes lie.

The problem is is that you never really have a way of knowing whether the reason why you got away with whatever you were trying to do was because the person genuinely wasn't aware you're lying, or because there was just some sorta unstated social agreement there to like, both go along with it, white lies, that sorta thing.

I have like a person I know in real life who kinda lies to me about little things here and there but it's just sorta really blatantly obvious and I just ignore it because like...I dunno it's not a big deal to me like they're not a major character in my life I really don't care. This person however, because I never call them out on any of this and I just go along with whatever they’re saying, they could well be there looking at me thinking to themselves 'I am such a great liar, this guy is totally buying all of this!'.

So I'd never say like 'I'm a good liar' because somebody could easily like, wrongly think that about themselves and to some degree I wouldn't describe myself as a 'good' anything and would prefer to let other people judge, because going by how accurate other people's self-assessments on anything are most of the time I don't see why mine would..... But then yeah, to some degree if I described myself as a 'bad liar' I dunno how accurate that would be because I can be very persuasive without

needing

to lie. So sometimes it's like 'yea I didn't lie at all, didn't change any facts, didn't make anything up, and I didn't need to lol still got one over on u'. So that goes some way to explain why I wouldn’t have a clear answer for a question like that but I'm sure if I sat and thought about it more we could have a big discussion about it and so on.

[Trendall]

Well I was described as 'angry', 'depressed', 'hyper-sensitive', 'helpless', 'confused'. I have an 'inability' to do this that and the other, I am 'lashing out', 'defensive'.

When you just look at the tone of the language then it becomes quite obvious that the reason for singling me out didn't reaaaally have anything to do with them wanting to find mafia. They just wanted to attack my character. They'll go on to claim that that wasn't the purpose of their post and try to argue this with a bunch more linguistic gymnastics. Seen it a hundred times before.

[Trendall]

I still feel pretty confident for other reasons that Trendall is Mafia

Still thinkin' about that mega suspicious town read I had on you huh?

[Trendall]

God did you have other ones? Can you summarise what they are?

[Trendall]

For example your post 1033 or what I read of it anyway is just a list of quotes by me and then like, descriptions of those quotes underneath. Like I looked at the first couple and there was nothing in the way of describing why those completely arbitrary actions you picked up on would indicate that I was mafia. And it looked like it was going to continue like that. So like...did you come up with an argument, did it evolve?

[Trendall]

Oh yeah I just got a few posts down. I said like four lines all game about how I thought Lunar was a townread and I didn't care about it at all because I just do not care about day one (literally nobody has been murdered and ppl wanna spend 20 pages sitting trying to figure out who the murderer is). Like the guy kept prodding me and people in the game always complain at me for not 'outing reads' d1 so I have to just like...I dunno throw in something here and there. Lunar described this as me being 'confident' and me 'going out of my way' to defend them. Anybody can read my posts, read their posts, and see that the way that they describe my actions this game isn't representative of them at all.

[Trendall]

Well if you're mafia it's because you're trying to get an elimination on the person who like...literally at least two players in this game would want to eliminate me on the basis that they don't like me as a person so all you need to do in that situation is make literally any argument ("Here, Trendall votes. But then he unvotes and votes for another player.") and straight off the bat you've got Frogsterking wanting to eliminate me, whoever else.

If you're town it's just a matter of like, you're trying to figure out who the mafia is and you picked the wrong person on the basis that somebody else defending you (which I reiterate, barely happened other than me effectively going 'ehh I got no reason to suspect Lunar at the moment') I said stood out as unusual to you, and a lot of players will just vote for anybody who does anything that they perceive as out of the ordinary despite the fact that there's no actual reason why a person would be more likely to do that as mafia than as town.

[Trendall]

"Well then why are you voting for me then?! TRENDALL SLIPPED!"

were you lining up for roughly something like that to be your next post? be honest

[Trendall]

That's like when a teacher says something wrong, and all the kids point it out and the teacher goes 'I was just testing to make sure you were paying attention!'

[Trendall]

That doesn’t change that nothing about that tone seemed polite or respectful. I still think you were shading him.

Again given what Frogsterking wrote about me and tried to do there, Lunar was just trying to reassure me more than anything else, and any disrespect or impoliteness towards Frogsterking is absolutely deserved at this point. It makes no sense for Gamma to have an issue with Lunar 'not being polite or respectful', but no issue with Frogsterking for the same reason. Although Frogster's post was again, just a personal attack disguised as like a 'scientific rational analysis' of me under the guise of trying to figure out whether I'm mafia or not, so I guess Gamma just fell for that.

[Trendall]

Also just gonna unvote because I was literally voting Lunar Martian like, out of spite lmao.

UNVOTE:

[Trendall]

As like, some feedback, if the question were 'How do you tell stories?' I would have been able to work with that a lot better and would say something like 'I'm terrible with the details and I'll jump back and forth between different bits and forget things, so for me it's like I care less about the details of the story and it's more about like being engaging emotionally, being theatrical, making people laugh, not being boring and so on'.

[Trendall]

It's alright. I think that in any game, if you start saying someone is hypersensitive or depressed or angry or whatever, trying to use that sorta language...you have absolutely no idea what issues people have in real life and you are absolutely playing with fire if you stumble across some aspect of a person that they're currently struggling with or whatever. To me it just seems wildly inappropriate to ever make wild guesses about somebody else's neuroticisms, like I can handle it, I don't mind, but like...there's no

way

that I would ever say anything like what you said to me to anybody, because I have the humility to recognise that I don't know them at all, and that my baseless speculations that I'm doing for my own amusement or comfort could have a serious effect on them, so it just ain't worth it.

[Trendall]

Can I get a vote count if someone's about?

[Trendall]

Thank you. That's more ppl not voting than I realised. I think that both the Trendall and the bugspray wagons are bad, so I'm actually going to join the Momrangal (I did have an argument for this as well but I just typed it out and then sorta like...looked back and it wasn't a great argument, like it had problems so I just deleted it) but I'm not massively committed to it and will more likely than not end up switching as the day goes on.

[Trendall]

Oh WOW I posted that and forgot to actually write the vote.

VOTE: Momrangal

[Trendall]

I see OutWorldER's rage

I'm guessing Frogsterking is just a player who has a tendency to project emotionality onto written content when it's just not there, but all I'm seeing in OutWorldER's posts is somebody like...dispassionately talking about the game.

[Trendall]

OK. You're wrong. I was just saying something to cheer Trendall up a bit, it had nothing to do with the game.

Oh by the way I really appreciate this.

[Trendall]

And note that 462 is the only time Bugs has mentioned Lunar at all this game, and it’s to make a light defence of them.

Says the guy who doesn't believe in pre-flip associations and has a history of complaining about people making 'pre-flip associations' in like, an alarmingly high number of past games. Interesting.

[Trendall]

The last game I was in had two town doctors, so two town backup neighbours in the same game wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Trendall]

Lmao wow. I'm not mafia.

[Trendall]

It's okay, I don't think there is any way for you guys to win anymore, I already have a guilty on Bugs and I'm investigating Momrangal tonight, I think you should just surrender if that's a possibility.

It's just so embarrassing to read this when I know you're not correct aaaaa

[Trendall]

Looks like the neighbourhood ain't happy about that claim.

[Trendall]

Fuck it, let's go for it.

VOTE: bugspray

[Trendall]

There's a parallel universe somewhere where Frogsterking drew doctor in this game and we all had to fill out a health questionnaire at the start.

[Trendall]

"Trendall's blood pressure is high. Mafia are more likely to have high blood pressure because they're nervous about..."

[Trendall]

so I threw it out there as a fake claim to get reactions.

Always an instant vote from me.

VOTE: Frogsterking

[Trendall]

I'm sure it's fascinating. Like you ppl are talking about the game as if it's solved mechanically, and I can't be bothered to look into what the arguments are so I'm just assuming that this is the case and that I've won this as I'm town. Makes no difference what I do at this point.

[Trendall]

I think that with me, because I've played thousands of games of this on epicmafia and see these sorts of arguments about how a person reacted all the time, it's like, I've seen it all. Like a person says something which is totally inconceivable in their position, and you eliminate them and they turn out to be town. Or someone reacts in a way that is just like, too good for it to be mafia or too inconceivable given the player's playstyle or whatever, and then bam they turn out to be mafia. And the amount of times that sorta thing happens racks up over a load of games, and then at that point it seems unwise to give too much credence to arguments about 'reactions', as they've proven to be unreliable a lot of times.

[Trendall]

I'm sure 'why did you take so long to out?' is a fairly common reaction and doesn't imply what you think it does.

Also the point of that er...wasn't to show off that I've played lots of games, I couldn't care less, that was just necessary in order for me to explain why my perspective is as it is and therefore why I could never come around to your argument here no matter what you say.

[Trendall]

Now you're doubling back and saying that you don't have that much experience with reaction tests

This doesn't remotely resemble anything I've said. Sorry, this is a waste of my time.

[Trendall]

I do not care about who the mafia are any more I'm honestly just going to replace out, I have better things to do.

[Trendall]

I'm aware that they can be mafia trying to play on the fact that I said I was neurotic at the start of the game or whatever. This is just so tedious and I can't be bothered with it.

[Trendall]

can we get legacy reads before you do?

As an absolute stab in the dark, Momrangal, Luca, and the third one I'll tell you later.

[Trendall]

I'd totally forgotten about those. That's a great idea, thanks!