Mini Normal 2191 | Endgame

[lenora]

did my post now go through?

[lenora]

okay it worked now - i just noticed this game start - i'm sorry for inactivity

[lenora]

anyway hi everyone, this is my first game and my first time on this forum, so i apologize if i'm still figuring things out. does anyone know where i'd see the setup details?

[lenora]

sorry to double post but while i’m here, and a general question for anyone who sees this:

what’s your biggest strength as a mafia player? eschewing alignment, just focusing solely on self-perception.

i don't have previous experience playing mafia in this kind of setting, but i think my greatest strength as a player would probably be my ability to articulate/explain myself

and got it - thanks Chumbo!

[lenora]

i think ur vibes are town so far chumbo :3

what is "town vibes" to you? i'm not sure how you came to this conclusion so quickly

(also i just read over the rules and saw only 1 bah post is allowed so i'm sorry for my 2 opening posts without content, i just tried to send something that didn't go through so i wasn't sure if it was working)

[lenora]

i think ur vibes are town so far chumbo :3

what is "town vibes" to you? i'm not sure how you came to this conclusion so quickly

(also i just read over the rules and saw only 1 bah post is allowed so i'm sorry for my 2 opening posts without content, i just tried to send something that didn't go through so i wasn't sure if it was working)

i think he comes off as someone who isnt informed basically

okay thanks - was there a line in particular that made you feel that way?

i've caught up on backreading (i thought i'd missed way more than i did) and my main take is dkkoba comes off as needlessly aggressive and quick to jump to conclusions that i don't see. i'd normally find that behavior scummy, but i don't know if it's actually an alignment tell for them and i don't want to be wrong about that when i'm not confident. dkkoba, do you have any past games i can look at?

[lenora]

i wouldn't consider the aggression itself an alignment tell. more-so it felt like people made posts that seemed null or fine to me so i wasn't sure why you called them scummy

do we know how many mafia are in this game or is everything closed?

[lenora]

okay thanks dk, i'll take a look. it may help me get used to the forum too

[lenora]

dk i'm going through the game you linked (or the opening of it anyway) and i don't see that same aggression as here - you were town there right? that makes it hard for me to write it off as stylistic, but i'll give you a chance and see how my read on you evolves

maduisha: i've played some mafia games outside of the site (mainly with friends on discord) but not a ton of experience and definitely not in this type of setting. i tried to sign up for a newbie game too - i was just excited to play and wasn't sure how soon it'd fill so i picked two games

[lenora]

Sssh, no softing. Only I can softclaim my role D1 every game.

(I swear every time I do that, it's not on purpose, lol. People call me out and I'm like "shit, I implied it, didn't I?")

PEdit: I see, so it was impatience... well, let's see if we can sort you more easily once the thread starts moving a bit and you can give us your opinion about stuff. I will try to remain neutral about being new to the site and such.

yeah, when i saw this started i wasn't sure if it was the newbie game or regular one, but i realized right after posting it wasn't the newbie game so i was mentally chastising myself for sounding clueless. i've read through the rules now though

i like your consideration of me - it seems like a towny mindset to at first consider writing it off then remember that method didn't work for you previously

[lenora]

u got any offsite games to link lenora? i wanna see what ur general expectations are like when ur town mainly

i can dig through to see if i can find the old boards but it's been years since i've played forum-style mafia so i doubt i'll find them unfortunately. also i'm a much different person (and i'd expect player) than i was years ago so they probably wouldn't be good comparisons

[lenora]

u got any offsite games to link lenora? i wanna see what ur general expectations are like when ur town mainly

i can dig through to see if i can find the old boards but it's been years since i've played forum-style mafia so i doubt i'll find them unfortunately. also i'm a much different person (and i'd expect player) than i was years ago so they probably wouldn't be good comparisons

do u remember the name of the boards?

i think mafia universe? i played a game in 2017 but i have no idea what i registered as so i'm having trouble finding it. the other ones were on a jcink that is definitely closed

hopefully if i enjoy this game, i can get into playing again so i have future comparisons

[lenora]

UNVOTE: Dkkoba
getting town vibes from how far koba is pushing their read on nepenthe.

could you explain this a bit more? i don't really see it. i keep re-reading nepenthe's opening posts to find the self-consciousness, but to me it just looks like nepenthe is considering different peoples strategies vs. how he himself approaches the game and that he's aware of his own weaknesses. dk then jumped to a read/assumption really fast. i'm know my reads will probably be rusty in this game as it's been quite a bit, so it's helpful to me when people can walk through their reasoning in case i'm missing something

[lenora]

UNVOTE: Dkkoba
getting town vibes from how far koba is pushing their read on nepenthe.

could you explain this a bit more? i don't really see it. i keep re-reading nepenthe's opening posts to find the self-consciousness, but to me it just looks like nepenthe is considering different peoples strategies vs. how he himself approaches the game and that he's aware of his own weaknesses. dk then jumped to a read/assumption really fast. i'm know my reads will probably be rusty in this game as it's been quite a bit, so it's helpful to me when people can walk through their reasoning in case i'm missing something

Yeah I'm not completely sure on Koba's attack on nepenthe either but I feel like Koba's motivation to be this aggressive with their read on nepenthe is towny. Just trying to get every last reaction and AI material from nepenthe, that's what I see.

i saw it as a bit OTT/performative - i'd maybe feel differently if they re-evaluated from it or if I saw the test on nepenthe as useful, but i'm getting the sense that koba is struggling to explain their reads/reasons

VOTE: dkkoba

[lenora]

i saw it as a bit OTT/performative - i'd maybe feel differently if they re-evaluated from it or if I saw the test on nepenthe as useful, but i'm getting the sense that koba is struggling to explain their reads/reasons

VOTE: dkkoba

Well I'm fairly certain that Koba is usually this aggressive and I don't think this relates to "struggling to explain their reads/reasons" in the slightest, it's just how Koba plays the game.

it's not the aggression itself that i find scummy though, it's the explanations.. like townreading Chumbo because he doesn't look like he has information

[lenora]

i think ur vibes are town so far chumbo :3

what is "town vibes" to you? i'm not sure how you came to this conclusion so quickly

(also i just read over the rules and saw only 1 bah post is allowed so i'm sorry for my 2 opening posts without content, i just tried to send something that didn't go through so i wasn't sure if it was working)

i think he comes off as someone who isnt informed basically

yeah ben, it was this one

i think ur vibes are town so far chumbo :3

what is "town vibes" to you? i'm not sure how you came to this conclusion so quickly

(also i just read over the rules and saw only 1 bah post is allowed so i'm sorry for my 2 opening posts without content, i just tried to send something that didn't go through so i wasn't sure if it was working)

This is straining my credulity a bit.

lenora, where/how did you form your impression of what "bah post" means?

Bah posts allowed (limit: 1, free of game related content)

i was going based on that - i assumed it meant posts without game-related content (like greetings), is that not what it means?

[lenora]

To answer your question, a 'bah' post is a single post someone may be permitted just after they die, just to say "bah, go town" or something. "Free of game related content" means it can't be used to try and make a case or reiterate accusations or otherwise try to influence the outcome of the game.

I get the impression you've made several

I'm just a newb and I don't understand things

remarks back to back and I'm concerned that you're deliberately playing up that angle. I saw town get burned by that in a game not too long ago.

what posts of mine made you feel that way? it's actually pretty important to me that i'm not perceived that way and i'm taken and read as a serious player - after figuring out/adjusting to the board, i went out of my way to read through the rules and i even googled "bah posts mafiascum" because people's reactions made me think i'd gotten something wrong, but i couldn't figure it out

[lenora]

I get the impression you've made several

I'm just a newb and I don't understand things

remarks back to back and I'm concerned that you're deliberately playing up that angle. I saw town get burned by that in a game not too long ago.

Such has happened before? I'd definitely like to see the game.

I'm not sure if I want to derpclear lenora now that I know that she plays on ms. Derpclears are most effective on a genuine newbie, but not very good on someone who has played the game a couple times before.

i don't play on ms? this is my first game on this board. you don't need to clear me or whatever though because i'd probably have the same confusion regardless of my alignment, but i'd appreciate if people are understanding about it

[lenora]

what posts of mine made you feel that way?

48 - confused about how to post
50 - asking where to see the setup
57 - misunderstanding "bah post"
70 - how many mafia?

When I lay it out like that it's not really as much as I thought, but it was enough to make me take notice.

okay, I see what you're saying in a vacuum. butttttt my board/(bah?) confusion would've been there regardless of alignment. i tried to submit a post, it said it sent, then i didn't see it - so yeah i can see how as a whole that can look like forced towntells to an outsider, which is why it was important to me to try to try to integrate in the game the best i could and an initial understanding of the setup may have helped. if you can think back to your first time playing on this board, maybe you'd understand a bit better?

[lenora]

About Umlaut's paranoia of Lenora's "newbiecard behavior", I think I pointed it out before in this thread already, so I understand where he comes from, but I liked Lenora's responses when I asked her why she joined this game as first game, and her willingness to learn the site's meta, so I don't think it's purposeful instrumentation of newbie posts. I will still be watching her, but I think she's on the townier so far.

Nep and Lenora are the ones giving me the best town vibes right now, with Zulfy and Fuzzy at the bottom of the null pile because I need more posts to work with.

i'm getting townvibes from nep too (you/him were my first reads) which is part of what made dk's push look worse

[lenora]

Hello! I'm free from the stuff that had me busy today, and I've caught up with the thread.

i saw it as a bit OTT/performative - i'd maybe feel differently if they re-evaluated from it or if I saw the test on nepenthe as useful, but i'm getting the sense that koba is struggling to explain their reads/reasons

VOTE: dkkoba

Well I'm fairly certain that Koba is usually this aggressive and I don't think this relates to "struggling to explain their reads/reasons" in the slightest, it's just how Koba plays the game.

it's not the aggression itself that i find scummy though, it's the explanations.. like townreading Chumbo because he doesn't look like he has information

I want to point out here that when Koba says "Chumbo doesn't seem informed", they probably mean it more like "they don't seem informed about the setup/people's alignments." It's a way to say "I don't think these words come from scum mentality", instead of meaning "having information", in general.

I understand this, but the reasoning/read came after chumbo only made 3 posts, and none of them to me looked like Chumbo was or wasn't informed so I don't get how koba reached that conclusion

[lenora]

i saw it as a bit OTT/performative - i'd maybe feel differently if they re-evaluated from it or if I saw the test on nepenthe as useful, but i'm getting the sense that koba is struggling to explain their reads/reasons

VOTE: dkkoba

Well I'm fairly certain that Koba is usually this aggressive and I don't think this relates to "struggling to explain their reads/reasons" in the slightest, it's just how Koba plays the game.

it's not the aggression itself that i find scummy though, it's the explanations.. like townreading Chumbo because he doesn't look like he has information

im a smart player and can see a player who is bumbling around without info on any other slot from a mile away.

do you think chumbo is scum?

no - his posts seemed fine, but I don't really have a solid read on him yet. it's more that I don't understand the "bumbling around without info" or what posts from him made you think that. it was how fast you jumped to the read that made me think you knew his alignment for sure rather than actually trying to read him, and that's what I'm trying to figure out

[lenora]

DK didn't answer my question and I'm not sure if on purpose or not. I don't like being ignored, hm...

Well, I'll let it be until Lenora and DK come back.

yeah, DK hasn't said anything yet that makes me want to change my vote. I'm still not liking their response to my questioning.

[lenora]

yeah this game feels Easy and i think we can start with Zulfy. Who here thinks Zulfy is town?

he's pretty null to me, but we had a moment of agreement.. why do you scumread him?

Ok, quite simple: I'm leaning town on Umlaut, Maduisha and Ben.

Dk, Lenora and Nepent are null.

Fuzzy and Zulfy are scumleans.

VOTE: Zulfy

i read over fuzzy's posts and i can see your point about the reads being more surface-level/trying to imitate a town game rather than actually play it. i don't really see how zulfy's been scummy though

ftr i'm caught up and i see that a lot of people are in agreement about fuzzy. i'd like to hear from him more though before adding to that pressure, especially when i'm not that satisfied by DK's responses?

[lenora]

Lenora-

I do not like how she is just going along to get along in 128 144 and 225. She pretty much agreeing with the players she is addressing and not adding much else. Not sure if she is just coasting town or coasting here. 129 is bad .To me it very much feel likes she is trying to earn town points. The only real thing that is reading town to me is her push for more info on DK.

how is any of this me "just agreeing with other players"? no one else shared my takes or pointed out the things i did - i really dislike this analysis

[lenora]

Hm, I see, I hadn't considered the possibility of alt accounts. Well, I understand that you want to continue the evaluation of the slot and especially not townread based on newbie behavior, but a part of what I pointed out before has to do with the way she approached DK's slot rather than the newbie posting, so I would like to know if you found it towny too or if I'm alone in this.

On the surface, it seemed like a towny stance, because Dk is a naturally noisy player and difficult to eliminate if they are town, although I don't know exactly whether Lenora is aware of that fact, so maybe scum!Lenora would be less inclined to try to formalize reasons to push Dk based on the initial aggressiveness demonstrated, which would point to town!Lenora not understanding how their playstyle works and interpreting their line of actions as scummy (and interested in elucidating the read). On the other hand, I can't get an idea of ​​what Lenora's scum range is and depending on her competence as scum, such type of questioning could be very easy to emulate. I say this because I have already played against scum who can build genuine push (Flavorleaf), and I, in particular, would also be able to formulate something like that without much difficulty as scum.

So, answering your question, no, I didn't find it towny to the point of having a TR or TL in the slot. Maybe it would change if I had some context on how town!Lenora and scum!Lenora behave, but without that I don't feel comfortable presuming anything about her yet.

i'd appreciate it if you regard me based on my play in this game rather than based on how town!Lenora or scum!Lenora would act. i think the things i pointed out were objectively scummy and not countered properly - i made it very clear the aggressiveness wasn't the reason for my push

[lenora]

i'm still agreeing with mad and nep the most /shrug. i liked nep's take on clidd being over-explainy

if dkkoba's behavior was a playstyle thing, then i'm sure i'll see with the new person and change my mind if they're towny