mini normal 2226; who won

[Umlaut]

What changed?

You posted more.

Why is posting bad?

VOTE: seanzie

This is a really garbage reason for a push

VOTE: Flubbernugget

[Umlaut]

Lim all Liars

It's "destroy" in this game.

Destroy all dissemblers

[Umlaut]

You attack someone for attacking someone for...posting?

Yup!

More precisely, I attack someone for taking the most ridiculous possible reading of 22.

[Umlaut]

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

[Umlaut]

Do you have a read on Seanzie's coyness? You entered the thread going straight for flubber and didn't really react to Seanzie's posts.

Not really. Coyness isn't really a tell, town and scum alike do that all the time.

The read itself... is not exactly impressing me but I don't expect much from a page 1 read.

[Umlaut]

Why should I make any kind of post toward Seanzie? I read the thread, I saw Flubber joining a convenient wagon for disingenuous reasons, I voted him.

[Umlaut]

Thanks for birthday wishes, I had a busy but good day. I love what y'all have done with the Flubber wagon.

Datisi probably town. If anything I'm mildly paranoid about being buddied but that's not a behavior I would really expect from scum!Datisi toward me anyway (though my experience with scum!Datisi is limited so I'm really just guessing there).

T3... is T3, can't townread anything he's done but I more or less agree with Datisi's 93.

I preliminarily like Vulture for town but there's not enough there for a strong read.

Aristeia somwhat town too, just on tone and style; I like her coming in with an early readlist in 185, I like that she had immediate answers when asked to explain those reads, and honestly I don't see scum ever choosing to explain their top townread as "they're town because I would be sad if they're not."

Still thinking/reading about everyone else.

[Umlaut]

Titus, what are you actually scumreading about me? The way you're picking that alone out of all Aristeia's reads, you must feel pretty strongly about it.

[Umlaut]

If anything I'm mildly paranoid about being buddied but that's not a behavior I would really expect from scum!Datisi toward me anyway (though my experience with scum!Datisi is limited so I'm really just guessing there).

ok i'm gonna ask

why are you guessing that there?

Not totally sure, just gut I suppose. I guess I'd expect scum!Datisi to think of me as someone he can get away with scumreading since as far as I can recall you've been at least

somewhat worried about

my slot in pretty much every game we've ever played together.

[Umlaut]

i currently have about 8 scumleans and 3/4ths of a townread

can whoever is town here start acting like it

Sounds like a you problem.

What's the point of this reply?

[Umlaut]

Umlaut feels like he has purpose and direction that is going somewhere - he feels quite motivated to catch bad guys.

I absolutely disagree with this. Please provide evidence.

looks like I'm mindmelding w/ titus

Titus comes in and backs Flubbed up.

Flubber comes in and backs Titus up.

And both were for issues y’all were in the minority on. I don’t think 2 scum buddies would be this blatant with each other but it’s really feeling like at least one of you is scum.

VOTE: Flubber

Why Flubber over Titus? Just because he's leading?

[Umlaut]

So does "at least one of you is scum" just mean "...because Flubber is scum" or do you have a model of that exchange where Titus is scum and Flub is town?

Something about that phrase pings me, because I don't see how Flubber returning Titus' townread/mindmeld/etc. can possibly reflect badly on

her

.

[Umlaut]

Going to be AFK at least until tomorrow sometime, but still occasionally skimming.

Chaos seems generally town to me but I'm putting him in the same "need to see more" department as Vulture. Somewhat good feelings about Luke as well, coming from his interactions with Datisi. Need to think more about T3, Titus, Gamma.

[Umlaut]

Prodge, going to catch up today but last I checked Meg hadn't done anything and was still on V/LA so.if there's a wagon there I hope it's for a better reason than that.

[Umlaut]

Ugh I need to play this game but now that I'm so far behind it's hard to get myself to do it

I like MathBlade's very active and engaged entry to the game but haven't really thought in detail about

what

he's saying

[Umlaut]

Maybe I'll just ignore the past and focus on whatever's going on in the last few pages.

[Umlaut]

MathBlade is Seanzie, who is Prism?

[Umlaut]

Thanks for the info (and the annoying shade)

[Umlaut]

UNVOTE:

At least until I've caught up a bit

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Chaos

I like Meg's recent posts.

Give me the tl;dr on Chaos? (I realize this is kind of a silly phrasing given Chaos has all of 6 posts but you know what I mean)

[Umlaut]

At a glance Prism looks better than Flubber so far at least.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Chaos

I like Meg's recent posts.

Give me the tl;dr on Chaos? (I realize this is kind of a silly phrasing given Chaos has all of 6 posts but you know what I mean)

That's the problem. Town Chaos is more leadery or tries to be.

I can only recall one game I've played with Chaos (years ago), and he was town in that game and was pretty much like this. Maybe his meta has changed though?

[Umlaut]

I am considering moving my vote to meg, which, I

know

.

I was the one saying Chaos>Meg, and now people are moving my way, but yeah.

x.x

what's your opinion on the newer stuff that meg's posted?

Their read list in 509 578 felt made up.

The exact single line on each and every player I think is part of what makes it seem manufactured, because I feel like the average player actually has lots and lots of thoughts on some slots, but then not very many thoughts on others. So, the single line on each feels more like someone trying to manufacture a read list.

And even following that, it has taken questions for Meg to expound on things. And the way they have expounded, feels more like a conversation in abstraction then how they feel about each player they are talking about. Like, why each action could be read the way they read them in the read lists, as opposed to what they think about each player.

I'm fine to be today's mislim but I would like to discuss my analysis more in depth, especially when more people are online.

Try to curb your trigger happy hammering and not cut the day short, I have more to say but the discussion will take some time.

This line did nothing for me, and looks like just trying to buy time, and does not give me town feels

I like this post a lot, town points for Luke for efforting in his reads. The particular reasons Luke is pointing out to suspect Meg don't seem to me like like the kind of reasons scum would use to manufacture a scumread.

[Umlaut]

Fwiw I am regularly surprised at how ill-informed players are about the boundaries of Normal games, and I don't think the Discord theory is much more egregious than other examples of that even though it's obviously wrong

Gamma, it seems like Math has already conceded the point that such a setup is unlikely-to-impossible, why (within the context of the game) do you need any more from him than that?

[Umlaut]

I'm a bit lost and trying to find something intelligent to say, but I saw this

To be frank, when my top scum read decides to omgus scum read me back, I don't think it is all that beneficial for me to engage in a 1v1 with that person directly.

and found it absolutely hilarious given how my last game with Luke went

[Umlaut]

Sort of want to put my vote on Meg by PoE (I think Vulture and Chaos have both looked towny to me at various points) but I'd be lying if I said I had reasoning for that

[Umlaut]

Sort of want to put my vote on Meg by PoE (I think Vulture and Chaos have both looked towny to me at various points) but I'd be lying if I said I had reasoning for that

can you read meg iso and say what you think? there have been PLENTY points on why meg could be scum.

I'll do this in the next 24 hours, pls yell at me if I don't.

[Umlaut]

Oh look I'm getting wagoned. I could jump on Chaos if it's him or me but I haven't seen any good reason to suspect him aside from "read this other game to see his meta" which I'm just not going to do.

I really don’t like the fact me and a top scumread are both thinking it’s a weird kill so maybe it’s just not?

This is a very weird line of thought. Why on earth would someone else thinking it's a weird kill mean it isn't one, scumread or not? What exactly is the connection here?

[Umlaut]

Oh look I'm getting wagoned. I could jump on Chaos if it's him or me but I haven't seen any good reason to suspect him aside from "read this other game to see his meta" which I'm just not going to do.

I really don’t like the fact me and a top scumread are both thinking it’s a weird kill so maybe it’s just not?

This is a very weird line of thought. Why on earth would someone else thinking it's a weird kill mean it isn't one, scumread or not? What exactly is the connection here?

Agreeing with a scumread is a sign something is either wrong with your scumread or you’re a pocket/set up to be pocketed/or it’s an agreement to get you to think otherwise.

What are your thoughts about the game so far? Any reads?

It's a

really weak

sign of that I guess, but "kill was weird" is just not enough of an agreement to trigger that (also I think the kill is weird and I don't think your scumread is likely scum based on my impressions yesterday when I still knew what was going on)

I'm so far behind in reading that just thinking about is is throwing up a tremendous "ugghh, I don't wanna" field and I think the best way around that is to just admit it's never going to happen and focus on what I can glean from the current pages. So far I like Datisi a bit less than I did, I like Alchemist a bit more than I did, I still like Vulture for town, and on inspection the case for Chaos isn't actually too bad so I'm going to

VOTE: Chaos

at least while I continue trying to catch up.

pedit

am I at E-1? Haven't checked VC

[Umlaut]

Oh, I am.

I'm a VT.

[Umlaut]

To those of you who are that sure Umlaut is scum, why not go look back and see what was scummy D1?

this is difficult, because it's not about what he *was* doing, it's about what he *wasn't* doing. meg flipped town, and arguably the biggest counter was vulture. i have a gut feeling that vulture is townie. it's not extremely strong but it's there. in that case, umlaut's scum equity goes WAY up, because he's being a lazy fuck, and that very much fits with scum!him not having to effort if he doesn't have to. (it also points at there very likely being a deepwolf.)

like, i cannot point at anything that umlaut has done day one and say "this is scum because xyz" because he hasn't. but with the wagon's that happened and the way they played out, i think there's value in running him up to claim at least and forcing content out of him that way.

In the very game you are linking, you were on my case for being inactive and it turned out I was town.

[Umlaut]

I haven't seen any case that I'm scum that isn't just that I'm inactive though.

[Umlaut]

(tbf I wouldn't have seen it even if it were there)

[Umlaut]

you think umlaut is scum who saw town killing town and just didn't care enough to vote?

Actually I really dislike this, why is this even unlikely? Scum stay off town wagons all the time. I mean I know I'm not scum but I don't think this is a good enough reason to think I'm not and it feels like making up a reason to be off the wagon.

[Umlaut]

(except that she's on the wagon anyway so, uh, idk)

[Umlaut]

Umlaut, I was town reading you all D1 and then naked voted you to start D2, do you find that suspicious at all? Also, who are you currently scumreading? I know you had the initial push on Flubber, but you felt better about Prism, not sure where you stand right now.

And I'm back to not liking Lukewarm. I need to go back through and see the momentum of my and Meg's wagons when he switched, I gave him townpoints because I thought mine had more momentum, but if Meg's had more, the switch doesn't do as much for me.

I honestly forgot you townread me D1. I don't really find naked votes suspicious, to be honest, but when you put it that way yeah, I'm wondering where the flip came from.

I already talked a bit about my reads. Looking at the thread it looks like N_M hasn't posted at all yet so no room to have an updated read there.

[Umlaut]

I still am on board with eliminating Umlaut

Why?

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Ari

Let's try this, I'm at least interested in it whereas I'm not so much in Chaos. I thought Ari was pretty town d1 but I can't hold onto that forever.

I just really find Ari's defense of me hard to credit and it gives me white-knighting vibes. Kind of starting to feel the same way about Math to be honest. It's probably a little weird to be consistently suspecting people for

not

trying to launch me but, well, here we are

[Umlaut]

Umlaut, I was town reading you all D1 and then naked voted you to start D2, do you find that suspicious at all? Also, who are you currently scumreading? I know you had the initial push on Flubber, but you felt better about Prism, not sure where you stand right now.

Somehow I don't think scum explicitly brings up to me that they did this if I'm leaving it alone

[Umlaut]

1224 reads to me like someone entirely uninterested in the game not scummy. Many many times I have seen completely disinterested town and scum make similar posts. Ari also did the same sort of uninterested hop in but yet you pick on Umlaut why? I have as scum taken advantage of disinterested town to get a quick elim. We just had wagonpalooza D1 and now 4 people are confident sans case?

That reads one of two things neither of which are protown to share yet. Regardless I think a scum in Chaos, Datisi, Gamma, and Titus is quite high regardless of which explanation I go down.

Premise A: (Secret premise)
If Premise A is true then scum likely think Premise A is true and therefore would vote Umlaut.
If Premise A is not true then scum likely think they may get a free elim by hopping on without discussion like everyone else.

It’s rather telling that 1224 is the first attempt to explain Umlaut scum rather than using D1 and that’s after unexplained votes appeared.

To those of you who are that sure Umlaut is scum, why not go look back and see what was scummy D1?

Make a case of it.

Math says he's not defending me and wants me limmed but this definitely reads like defending to me...

[Umlaut]

Welcome to the game, still more replacement(s)

VOTE: Alch

Experiment time!

VOTE: Unvote

Nevermind bad idea.

Datisi I will make you a deal. I will vote Umlaut right now for the low low price of “told you so” post game.

What exactly was the plan with this experiment? Like what were you hoping would happen?