mini normal 2226; who won

[Titus]

weren't you constantly posting how he's howling? where'd that go?

i may have been bluffing a bit to get gamma tilted

Read: They know Gamma's town but they don't want to prove it. Hence the about face.

VOTE: Koba

[Titus]

i was disstracted and forgot to pagetop !!!!!!!

VC 1.13

MegAzumarill (6):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Vulture 456, Lukewarm 905, MathBlade 991, Alchemist21 1130

D-1

Vulture (3):

MegAzumarill 579, Gamma Emerald 902, T3 916

ChaosOmega (2):

Titus 1000, Prism 1120

not voting:

Umlaut 742, ChaosOmega 1001

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

the day had >4 IRL days left before deadline - why did you hammer this Titus?

The day was over. No other wagon was taking. That's pretty clear from my ISO.

[Titus]

i was disstracted and forgot to pagetop !!!!!!!

VC 1.13

MegAzumarill (6):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Vulture 456, Lukewarm 905, MathBlade 991, Alchemist21 1130

D-1

Vulture (3):

MegAzumarill 579, Gamma Emerald 902, T3 916

ChaosOmega (2):

Titus 1000, Prism 1120

not voting:

Umlaut 742, ChaosOmega 1001

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

the day had >4 IRL days left before deadline - why did you hammer this Titus?

The day was over. No other wagon was taking. That's pretty clear from my ISO.

Did you scumread Meg?

No. Again, that's clear from my ISO. I tried Vulture, Chaos and Umlaut (weakly) at the end. Please stop asking me things that are in my ISO.

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

[Titus]

hm. let's see what happens. VOTE: gamma

i am open to considering voting aristeia, as much as it pains me, but i think i will need a bit more solid reasoning?

anyway, off to bed. if i wake up with either titus or koba run up or dead, there will be words.

Ari is the weakest of my TRs. I could scumcase them but I don't think they're scum. If they are, that's insulting to Math.

[Titus]

hm. let's see what happens. VOTE: gamma

i am open to considering voting aristeia, as much as it pains me, but i think i will need a bit more solid reasoning?

anyway, off to bed. if i wake up with either titus or koba run up or dead, there will be words.

Explain how Titus is Town.

Explain your PoE.

[Titus]

hm. let's see what happens. VOTE: gamma

i am open to considering voting aristeia, as much as it pains me, but i think i will need a bit more solid reasoning?

anyway, off to bed. if i wake up with either titus or koba run up or dead, there will be words.

Ari is the weakest of my TRs. I could scumcase them but I don't think they're scum. If they are, that's insulting to Math.

Who cares if I am insulted?

If we win by calling me a newb call me a newb.

If Ari's scum, the only people Math mindmelds with are scum.

[Titus]

Why are you concerned if I am insulted?

Because I hate hurting people. I'd rather lose.

Help us prove Gamma's alignment and shrink the PoE?

[Titus]

I don’t know what this term means?

So okay? Then if I only mind meld with scum so me being a newb makes scum easier to find so win win?

Like I don’t see a lose here. If I am mind melding with Town Ari nice little block forms
If I am mindmelding with scum Ari people see it and go “whelp Math is an idiot”
I fail to see the problem here

Mindmeld means thinking the same thing at the same time.

The problem is which Ari did you mindmeld with?

People who mindmeld tend to be the same alignment.

[Titus]

Why are you concerned if I am insulted?

Because I hate hurting people. I'd rather lose.

Help us prove Gamma's alignment and shrink the PoE?

I don’t even know what the PoE is but I am pretty sure Gamma is a bad idea. Gut

I think Gamma's likely town here too. I just want to prove it to doubters.

[Titus]

Why are you concerned if I am insulted?

Because I hate hurting people. I'd rather lose.

Help us prove Gamma's alignment and shrink the PoE?

I don’t even know what the PoE is but I am pretty sure Gamma is a bad idea. Gut

I think Gamma's likely town here too. I just want to prove it to doubters.

Not how mafia works.
We don’t elim people to prove them town.
We elim people we think are scum.

So no.

*sigh* We vote up people to prove up their alignment.

[Titus]

Ugh I am cranky. I have been sitting in a hot car for 2 hours waiting for a court to call my zoom case. I could have driven there had I known.

[Titus]

VOTE: Asteria

everything comes back to this.

d1 gamma feels unaligned with umlaut and looks to have their own original thoughts and such. scum gamma i remember being more or less unoriginal in thought.

I know for a fact Titus is the real deal. Math may not be reading her signs but I certainly was. She’s locktown for me, done deal.

then why did she 180 you here

I didn't. I want to prove Gamma's town by wagoning him.

[Titus]

Gamma, can you just claim your night action to prove your alignment? I'm bored with this.

[Titus]

What result did you get n2?

Second, that's not what I actually expected you to claim but ok.

If Gamma gets one verifiable result (that's not scum), he becomes locktown. No questions asked.

[Titus]

What result did you get n2?

Second, that's not what I actually expected you to claim but ok.

If Gamma gets one verifiable result (that's not scum), he becomes locktown. No questions asked.

I say this because scum likely does shoot me if they rolecopped me rather than shoot the cop.

[Titus]

Feel free to out what you saw Gamma.

[Titus]

Are you gated Titus?

Not answering this, but you can read between the lines.

[Titus]

Having a hard time figuring out what happened to the scum kill here is why I ask

I blocked it. Hence why I have said Datisi locktown over and over.

[Titus]

What result did you get n2?

Second, that's not what I actually expected you to claim but ok.

If Gamma gets one verifiable result (that's not scum), he becomes locktown. No questions asked.

I say this because scum likely does shoot me if they rolecopped me rather than shoot the cop.

This also assumes scum have a rolecop. Why?

Setups tend to favor town repeatedly recently. (This is my opinion)

In the scum Gamma universe, they'd know I was a jailkeeper via crumb or rolecop by N2. I'm not dead. Instead, scum shot Datisi who I crumbed was my protect.

If Gamma outs the right crumbs, there's no way his team shoots Datisi.

[Titus]

VOTE: Alch

[Titus]

What result did you get n2?

Second, that's not what I actually expected you to claim but ok.

If Gamma gets one verifiable result (that's not scum), he becomes locktown. No questions asked.

I say this because scum likely does shoot me if they rolecopped me rather than shoot the cop.

This also assumes scum have a rolecop. Why?

Setups tend to favor town repeatedly recently. (This is my opinion)

In the scum Gamma universe, they'd know I was a jailkeeper via crumb or rolecop by N2. I'm not dead. Instead, scum shot Datisi who I crumbed was my protect.

If Gamma outs the right crumbs, there's no way his team shoots Datisi.

Uhm I don’t get this? *confused*

I'd answer this but my crumbs were in a way you'd be the closest to understanding.

[Titus]

Titus, and you think you stopped a nightkill by saving the targeted? Why does scum try to target Gamma in your view?

I had him as my biggest TR at the point of N1.
I did save Datisi N2, which suggests scum were blind to my crumbs. So if Gamma highlights my D2 crumbs, he doesn't shoot Datisi.

[Titus]

I wish you got my crumbs, but oh well bro.

Looks like I'll have to secure a piece of art rather than a gem this time. I think I'll have to draw this piece of art from memory.

This is Titus crumbing that she’s going to target Datisi N2
Datisi’s title is Drawn from Memory, and I have Emerald in my username, thus explaining the references to art and gems

Ding Ding

[Titus]

pee pee poo poo I was right pre claims that ari wagon is best

You had Ari in your townblock.

[Titus]

VOTE: alch

if i dismantled a scum wagon just for this mess, i'm gonna be sad.

@koba, that alch towncase whenever you're ready.

I’d very much rather we vote out the person who necessitated this course of action, aka DkKoba

I wouldn't have done it but for obvious reasons we'll see after I eat a nightkill.

For Gamma to be scum his team would have to

A) Rolecop me N1
B) Solve my crumbs D2
And
C) Shoot Datisi anyway

OR

A) Rolecop me N1 or N2
B) Solve my crumbs D3
C) Have Gamma drop them at the right time organically.

Since 1 isn't plausible. That leaves 2.


I find 2 isn't likely because Math didn't get it.

[Titus]

In fact, I would have to say Rolecop N2 because I'd be the shot N2 if rolecopped N1.

[Titus]

VOTE: alch

if i dismantled a scum wagon just for this mess, i'm gonna be sad.

@koba, that alch towncase whenever you're ready.

I’d very much rather we vote out the person who necessitated this course of action, aka DkKoba

I wouldn't have done it but for obvious reasons we'll see after I eat a nightkill.

For Gamma to be scum his team would have to

A) Rolecop me N1
B) Solve my crumbs D2
And
C) Shoot Datisi anyway

OR

A) Rolecop me N1 or N2
B) Solve my crumbs D3
C) Have Gamma drop them at the right time organically.

Since 1 isn't plausible. That leaves 2.


I find 2 isn't likely because Math didn't get it.

There’s another option technically

Say it and I'll confirm or deny whether it's an option.

[Titus]

i saw the soft at the start of day 3* >_>

I hated having to soft so blatantly but I wanted no wiggle room on my flips.

[Titus]

Say it and I'll confirm or deny whether it's an option.

Me and Datisi are scum, caught your crumbs/rolecopped you, and sent Datisi to NK you n2

Impossible. For two reasons

1) You'd be sending a player who is intended to be jailed to do the nightkill.

2) Reasons

[Titus]

To be fair I don’t believe this but it is possible

1) Gamma didn’t see the crumbs is some other PR that knows he was blocked then claimed blocked today. He knows you’re the jailkeeper but didn’t kill you because you’re either too much a threat to him or you are scum Gamma is town.

I don’t believe either of these again to be clear

Impossible.

Gamma has to fake blocked to be scum, not actually be blocked.

[Titus]

omg datisi deepwolf got blocked doing the kill! :O

Impossible

[Titus]

To be fair I don’t believe this but it is possible

1) Gamma didn’t see the crumbs is some other PR that knows he was blocked then claimed blocked today. He knows you’re the jailkeeper but didn’t kill you because you’re either too much a threat to him or you are scum Gamma is town.

I don’t believe either of these again to be clear

Impossible.

Gamma has to fake blocked to be scum, not actually be blocked.

?? No he could be a scum fruit vendor tomato juice cleaner? There’s lots of roles that would inform him being blocked?

Correct but that's impossible for the reasons I crumbed in the first place

[Titus]

If everyone decides Alch is the better pick I can defer your death but you die today or you die tomorrow pretty much

cool, check me then.

granted you probably die if town tonight so if you are alive, there better be a green check with my name on it.

Chaos and I don't die because?

[Titus]

because gamma's role is clearly odd night and he should have a 100% confiremd green or red check.

with the setup info - a role cop is literally an alignment cop.

Vts don't exist because?

[Titus]

because gamma's role is clearly odd night and he should have a 100% confiremd green or red check.

with the setup info - a role cop is literally an alignment cop.

Vts don't exist because?

scum neighbor shows up as neighbor.

can't hide from rolecop.

Right. Vts are a thing. False neighbor.

[Titus]

Dumb question: Assume Chaos had a guilty on Umlaut?

Explain how two things that can fire that can get guilties on scum?

That’s like moderator no no.

I have concerns here too ngl but all prs are gated is my bet

[Titus]

because gamma's role is clearly odd night and he should have a 100% confiremd green or red check.

with the setup info - a role cop is literally an alignment cop.

Vts don't exist because?

scum neighbor shows up as neighbor.

can't hide from rolecop.

Right. Vts are a thing. False neighbor.

imma just let you figure out why this is a bad statement.

hint: what does VT show up on for a rolecop report vs what does a neighbor show up as on a rolecop report.

Goons and traitors likely show as vanilla. So 1 hypo guilty

That's not a shoot immediately

[Titus]

Dumb question: Assume Chaos had a guilty on Umlaut?

Explain how two things that can fire that can get guilties on scum?

That’s like moderator no no.

I have concerns here too ngl but all prs are gated is my bet

I have my reservations something is hinky here.

This doesn’t add up somewhere but I am going to take my sweet time to figure out what.

Whoever is scum is going to have to kill me or keep up their PR charade and hope I don’t catch on.

The mod made follow the cop impossible. With the gating, a cop doesn't get anymore results after claiming... usually

[Titus]

Before I go and pull the things i saw from alch that made me think he is town -> I'd like Alch to present how he feels about the gamestate now that it's shifted dramatically.

Titus is hardcleared unless NM counterclaims.

I think it’s a little convenient for Gamma to claim they targeted Umlaut N1.

I also hate how everyone is at each other’s throats more after the scumflip as opposed to before. The game felt way more cohesive D2.

?? not Mafia counterclaims?

*confusion*

What does Not Mafia have to do with any of this?

He’s the only person left who could counterclaim because everyone has said something.

Wait I forgot about Luke so there’s another.

But you get my point; I doubt there will be a cc.

Luke + Alch and slip NM is town?

*spit ballin like a boss*

Likely an innocent mistake and I feel Alch is scum.

[Titus]

So here's the situation.

Scum have a dillema.
Do they shoot me and gamble that I block any investigative that might have a guilty? [I still feel neighbor is a misleading role but we'll see.]
Vanilla doesn't clear anyone and Chaos is an unknown investigative.
Do they shoot Gamma and pray I am not on him?
Do they shoot Chaos and assume I am not on him?
If they fail their kill, they are near certainly facing another investigation.

[Titus]

If they have a gated roleblocker, they could shoot one and block the other, but in that case, we just keep the invests alive until E minus 1 day.

[Titus]

I think atp - if there is a town neighbor they *should* claim for the sake of us having a better understanding of the setup. scum already know who the neighbor is and who it is - hiding that info just hurts us as town

I'm taking neighbor as a scumclaim given the OP.

[Titus]

So here's the situation.

Scum have a dillema.
Do they shoot me and gamble that I block any investigative that might have a guilty? [I still feel neighbor is a misleading role but we'll see.]
Vanilla doesn't clear anyone and Chaos is an unknown investigative.
Do they shoot Gamma and pray I am not on him?
Do they shoot Chaos and assume I am not on him?
If they fail their kill, they are near certainly facing another investigation.

I think given the OP information and what is here scum have to have some way to prevent FTC. A blocker strongman or something.

The protective is a jailkeeper. FTC cannot happen.

[Titus]

VOTE: Alch

Why not? Then I can catch up overnight and see if I find any scum in Titus/Gamma/Chaos.

If it’s actually Chaos I don’t know if I’ll be more disappointed in myself or everyone else for letting him go.

I will be happy if it’s Chaos because then Titus can go “I was right on Umlaut” and I can go “I was right on Chaos” lol

reasons to townread chaos being outshined by much of the playerlist atp - was concerned mainly with their lack of engagement with the game after wagon dissolved on them but the fact they led on umlaut SoD2 is pretty significant.

It’s really not. Scum change votes all the time.

6 naked votes aren’t all invest PRs.

I kinda wanna see how things develop here but I think there be shenanigans.

I just want time to find them.

You have them. Unless the team is precisely Chaos Gamma you have two nights of survival.

[Titus]

Math, I feel bad. I went to all the lengths to crumb for you, and you didn't get it.

[Titus]

Why did you target Umlaut N1? What were your thoughts on Chaos claiming TI who had a guilty on Umlaut?

Umlaut was in this neat little venn diagram overlap spot of "low content thus good target for TIs" and "suspicious person who's likely to have to claim and as scum good for me to target since my MO as rolecop is to keep people honest"
my thoughts on Chaos are that I'm skeptical but I can see how Chaos targeted Umlaut, since I presume he operated on the same logic of "this slot is low content so I should use my action to bring him into the light"

So you didn’t think much of another TI existing?

I had this thought too. Ngl

[Titus]

Why did you target Umlaut N1? What were your thoughts on Chaos claiming TI who had a guilty on Umlaut?

Umlaut was in this neat little venn diagram overlap spot of "low content thus good target for TIs" and "suspicious person who's likely to have to claim and as scum good for me to target since my MO as rolecop is to keep people honest"
my thoughts on Chaos are that I'm skeptical but I can see how Chaos targeted Umlaut, since I presume he operated on the same logic of "this slot is low content so I should use my action to bring him into the light"

So you didn’t think much of another TI existing?

I'm a gated rolecop, I figured there was room for another TI in the setup

I buy gated regardless of Gamma's alignment. I'm gated too.

[Titus]

I haven't remade my choice yet.

[Titus]

Good morning. I'll announce the results of last night's caper once Gamma and Chaos claim, including results. #conftownabuse

[Titus]

[Titus]

Me right now.

[Titus]

Chaos, please do.

[Titus]

huh. dreams don't always come true.

also obligatory: good job titus (i assume); do any of y'all investgatives have anything useful; ok i was about to go lay down because head hurt see y'all in the morning, blease do not kill anyone before i'm bacc

I don't think anyone should vote until Chaos and Gamma reveal their results.

[Titus]

Interesting. So for the only way for Chaos to be scum is for Gamma to be scum most likely.

I find Chaos's claim a little suspect. Did you ask if traitors count as mafia for your definition?

#hystericallyconfused

[Titus]

We could also have a mob doctor though. That would leave one traitor and a false clear for both Gamma and Chaos to make.

[Titus]

Who are your bets on scum now? Who do you think scum shot?

[Titus]

The results came out a little faster than I expected.

I'd like some more speculation about who I protected please.

[Titus]

We have Datisi and myself as locktown
Koba as don't touch unless Chaos and/or Gamma is alive in elo. (Koba can only be doctor/traitor with Gamma, or goon with Chaos).
Chaos and Gamma are don't touch until elo-1 unless we have harder evidence than a moonlogic gambit. However, they could be scum with each other. Chaos and/or Gamma could still (theoretically) be scum giving results they know. Normally I'd say that's near impossible but I have #reasons I don't want to reveal. For either of them to be scum, it requires scum to have a tracker and/or watcher however.

That leaves Math, Lukewarm, Ari, and Not_Mafia. If both scum are in that pool, I'd expect a concession soon.

[Titus]

I am informed that only one mafia has a gun

*flashbacks to that one normal i modded with 0 scum guns and a town gunsmith*

anyway. assuming you're town, that points towards the traitor theory. and knowing there cannot be two mafia traitors (as they would've gotten endgamed the second umlaut got yeeted), the scumteam is probably

mafia neighbour, mafia traitor neighbour, mafia doctor. however, it could theoretically be two mafia doctors remaining.

in any case, a traitor/neighbour results from the rolecop are a hard guilty, doctor an almost hard guilty.

Not really seeing how that balances.

It makes sense assuming all the claims are town so far as I think they are but scum could literally be endgamed N1. Not seeing how this passes a review.

It's because I'm really lucky. My role is hella gated.

I'm walking around like queen of the jungle but I really shouldn't be.

Math, who is scum?

[Titus]

also, question - is today massclaim day? considering three of the town power roles are out, and we just gained a misyeet.

If we do a massclaim today, we need to do it before I out my results.

[Titus]

I'd like some more speculation about who I protected please.

i definitely expect one of gamma/chaos to be protects, but they both have a result, so... i dunno, not_mafia is a consensus town? i'm starting to think you blocked the killer rather than the victim.

I should have been clear. I want specific names and from people I don't know to be town. I want to feel the room.

[Titus]

I am informed that only one mafia has a gun

*flashbacks to that one normal i modded with 0 scum guns and a town gunsmith*

anyway. assuming you're town, that points towards the traitor theory. and knowing there cannot be two mafia traitors (as they would've gotten endgamed the second umlaut got yeeted), the scumteam is probably

mafia neighbour, mafia traitor neighbour, mafia doctor. however, it could theoretically be two mafia doctors remaining.

in any case, a traitor/neighbour results from the rolecop are a hard guilty, doctor an almost hard guilty.

Not really seeing how that balances.

It makes sense assuming all the claims are town so far as I think they are but scum could literally be endgamed N1. Not seeing how this passes a review.

er, what's the issue here, and do you have any better ideas, considering you think all claims so far are town?

My issue here is assume that the setup is mafia doc, mafia traitor Neighbor, mafia neighbor

Then gunsmith checks mafia neighbor
Rolecop checks doctor at any point.

At this point scum cannot feasibly win the game.

Usually with this kind of setup there is prevention for that scenario.

Change the doctor claim to a joat with a doctor role but no gun role in it. How does your balance analysis change?

Who do you think I protected?
Who do you think is scum?

[Titus]

I caught up but none of what you said made sense so I was just going to be a sheep again.

Talk it out with me, bro.

I expect you to be even more confused by day end. So whatever you say is likely wrong as it's clear I didn't do what was expected, I just want to see if there's a town thought process behind you.

[Titus]

also sorry titus, i'll shut up now, i should've been asleep a while ago anyway.

Feel free to scumhunt. I should have been clear about who I wanted to answer my question.

Also, when you wake up, please comment on if you still think massclaim is a good idea.

[Titus]

You left off yesterday saying you hadn’t made your choice.
And I didn’t know a few posts ago and nothing has changed since.

Scum no killed, so the inference is that I did something right. So what do you think I did and to whom?

[Titus]

Doctor isn’t a hard guilty outside of that knowledge that only one scum has a gun

It’s a hard guilty once Jailkeeper is claimed and flipped though.

Not with how nerfed I am. If scum claimed nerfs, it could work.

[Titus]

Like I am stuck in a rock and a hard place here:

Realistically I townread Titus Chaos Gamma and Datisi.

I don’t see a world where all of them can be town though.

I'm still considering a moonlogic scenario where one or both is scum.

Scum cannot kill Chaos without confirming Gamma as town.

Scum could kill Gamma but it's pretty clear they were reluctant to do so. Gamma hasn't claimed anything not fakeable yet too.

[Titus]

Are we mass claiming?

If so, is Titus directing it?

i have a feeling it might help, but i'll give it another thought in the morning. if so, titus is definitely directing it.

I'd like to make this decision with more baseless speculation on who I jailkept last night.

[Titus]

I do mean baseless. Try and get into the head of scum and Titus. I won't hold it against you if you're wrong. However, mafia doesn't come with the right to remain silent.

[Titus]

why can't the mafia doc endgame? they don't have to actually claim the fact they're a doc, no?

Gamma rolecop and Chaos informed only 1 gun make that impossible though.

Get off the setup and talk about reads/who you think I jailed please.

[Titus]

Gamma would turn into alignment cop and FTC happens.

So scum need a strongman which can’t be on the traitor because traitor can’t kill
Can’t be on Umlaut already flipped
Can’t be on doctor else becomes having a gun again

They could just shoot Gamma. Gamma can't get results if in jail. So it becomes wifom.

[Titus]

Am I also supposed to be blindly guessing your target?

Yes

[Titus]

Math, stop talking about balance and go by play alone. Whatcha see bro?

[Titus]

*scribbles notes*

Math, an analysis like 2728 please.

[Titus]

Math, stop talking about balance and go by play alone. Whatcha see bro?

I feel like scum have been buttering you up.

It’s just each time I pick someone as likely butterer I get no where
Datisi is lock town because you blocked >> could be killer but doubt it

There is no resistance to you leading which is weird.

This situation is weird, which is why I am pleading with you for moonlogic.

[Titus]

Math, stop talking about balance and go by play alone. Whatcha see bro?

I feel like scum have been buttering you up.

It’s just each time I pick someone as likely butterer I get no where
Datisi is lock town because you blocked >> could be killer but doubt it

There is no resistance to you leading which is weird.

This situation is weird, which is why I am pleading with you for moonlogic.

My moonlogic is Datisi is scum killer.

Going to tell you that this moonlogic is actually impossible. It's the only moonlogic that is. You'd put no kill before Datisi scum.

[Titus]

I don’t see Chaos lying about being informed there because outed as soon as two scum with guns flip so likely true regardless of alignment.

As long as his partner doesn't flip before him, he's fine with this claim.

I'd have Gamma check Chaos to secure our pool possibly. Not sure.

[Titus]

I don’t see Chaos lying about being informed there because outed as soon as two scum with guns flip so likely true regardless of alignment.

As long as his partner doesn't flip before him, he's fine with this claim.

I'd have Gamma check Chaos to secure our pool possibly. Not sure.

I guess it works if Chaos is traitor only. Then he just instantly loses if a buddy is flipped anyway.

True, but how would he know he wasn't blocked as the traitor?

[Titus]

Mod: Would a mafia joat with a doctor come back as having a gun?

[Titus]

Please just don’t. Can you both save it for post game unless you think the other is scum?

They both literally cannot be scum unless Chaos is.

[Titus]

@Math and Luke, Both claim please.

[Titus]

That leaves Ari.

[Titus]

And Datisi too. Don’t think he has claimed.

Datisi's conftown so he doesn't to.

Now here's the surprise...

I blocked....

Spoiler: result

No one

deliberately.

[Titus]

Crap I forgot about NM. I shouldn't have revealed yet.

[Titus]

Here's why I did a no block.

I supposed I was going to be the nightkill. If I was, I wanted to leave town with as much information as possible.

I couldn't block the nightkill because I'm loyal.

Gamma wasn't going to be shot because of the FoSes.
That left Chaos as the obvious protect choice.
Scum aren't going to shoot the obvious protection.

So why not shoot me?

My mind goes to moonlogic everytime.

[Titus]

This no kill, to me, suggests that scum thought I would block them. This would clear them. They then claim a useless result.

That leads me to Chaos being scum.

That's not the most palatable theory as Chaos faking a guilty makes no sense.


The next option is scum guessed I would block offensively. If that's the case, why not shoot Gamma or Chaos?

[Titus]

I think Ari is right, up to the allegation the moderator extended the deadline for scum. An accidental no kill points to someone afk. Deliberate nk makes no sense.

[Titus]

The logical solution here is to eliminate Not_Mafia. He's in nearly everyone's non-mechanical clears. Eliminating him gives us info about whether scum no killed deliberately or accidentally and it gives information about D1.

The hitch is I don't think Flubber v Umlaut was S v S but it could be.

[Titus]

This no kill, to me, suggests that scum thought I would block them. This would clear them. They then claim a useless result.

That leads me to Chaos being scum.

That's not the most palatable theory as Chaos faking a guilty makes no sense.


The next option is scum guessed I would block offensively. If that's the case, why not shoot Gamma or Chaos?

What part of this logic points to chaos over gamma?

Chaos's result from last night was an inno on Gamma

Gamma's result was an inno on koba

The logic doesn't factor in their results exactly. Chaos was a much likelier protect than Gamma was at the end of d3. So if there was a no kill to solidify a clear, it suggests Chaos. Could be Gamma with that logic though.

[Titus]

The logical solution here is to eliminate Not_Mafia. He's in nearly everyone's non-mechanical clears. Eliminating him gives us info about whether scum no killed deliberately or accidentally and it gives information about D1.

The hitch is I don't think Flubber v Umlaut was S v S but it could be.

Then don’t

You know this is a setup as do I.

We feel it.

Listen to that.

How is it a setup?

[Titus]

Because before today everyone TR’d not mafia.

A day we focus on not mafia is a day we don’t focus on the weird PR balance

The balance isn't as weird as you suggest. I'm nerfed because I'm loyal. That means follow the cop cannot be done. I only clear someone if I guess right or they claim blocked. The only true clear I have is Datisi. The Gamma clear is just strongly indicated.

[Titus]

Math, ngl you're freaking me out. The last time you complained like this, you were scum.

[Titus]

Gamma has the more questionable role on the surface. He can only be scum with Chaos though.

Chaos claimed an informed gunsmith but he checked the only player that would come back with a gun, regardless of alignment. Kinda makes me wish I had played suboptimally so we could sort it out for sure.

[Titus]

Math, ngl you're freaking me out. The last time you complained like this, you were scum.

Then scum read me for it. Hell elim me for it if you have to.

I am telling the truth.

Scum cannot win the setup proposed.

It is literally impossible without town throwing.

Alright, suppose scum kill Chaos tonight and Gamma the night after so we get no additional results. How does your calculus change?

[Titus]

We're at nine alive.

So that's 5 conftown in that setup.

Miselim 1, nightkill 1
7 alive, 4 conftown
Miselim 2, nightkill 2
5 alive, 3 conftown lylo gg

The biggest problem here is if Chaos is scum.
If we guess wrong here today and he doesn't die, we're forced to eliminate Chaos to verify his information.

[Titus]

I believe that no one has claimed a role that would have gun that has not been verified yet at this point (although we still need a NM claim)

Chaos has claimed to have found the single mafia with a gun, and has verified the only town role that would have a gun, his role is now functionally useless. If he is town, then he cannot give us any info on any other slot in the game.

So, I feel like balance wise, it would not actually be all that strong as you seem to think math. He can gets results on 2 out of 13 players, and even both of those give slightly inconclusive results.

All "no gun results" are in conclusive, because 2 scum does not have a gun. So a "no gun" basically means nothing.

the 2 "have a gun" result are also inconclusive, because one is town and 1 is scum.

The fact that he managed to find both players in 3 days is actually pretty impressive if true, and I feel like if you run models (which you said you did, ngl, I am not taking the time to do so), most games this ability would actually be pretty useless, or possibly even detrimental if he finds the role cop first.

How lucky he is is a factor against Chaos being believed though. He happens to find the 1 mafia role that happens to have a gun. He then happens to have set up knowledge that his role is useless after tonight.

The only reason I am entertaining it is because of how gated I am.

[Titus]

Do scum have multitasking here?

[Titus]

I want to vote Chaos here, as I think the team is Chaos and Koba here.

Gamma and Koba is a near zero chance.

[Titus]

math/datisi is a spicy team read i have rn :3

i refuse to let go of my townread on NM because it means ceding i have finally lost my 100% read rate on him

That's impossible.

I jailkept Datisi n2 with no nk. I'm loyal. Unless you think scum no showed multiple nights in a row, that dog don't hunt. A Datisi/Math team doesn't do that.

[Titus]

I kinda feel like we have to eliminate Math/Not_Mafia but I want to eliminate Chaos.

[Titus]

@Math, It's winnable for scum because we have to flip Chaos tmo if he survives tonight and we miseliminate today and there's an NK tonight.

Scum don't shoot Gamma here as that's my obvious camp (no night action tonight and mostly clear). I likely die tonight.

[Titus]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I think we do this here and hope this is what's going on rather than Chaos and Koba.

Everyone else here I am getting massive townpings on.

[Titus]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I think we do this here and hope this is what's going on rather than Chaos and Koba.

Everyone else here I am getting massive townpings on.

after this game u need to seriously update how you read me - i will cite every single game u misread me in and bury anything u try against me in the future, even if I am scum (although I expect you townread me still if i rand scum and you change nothing)

Then stop being so scummy. I'll always scumread you if you act above basic questioning, scream down my townreads, and attempt to carry grudges into future games.

Right now, I am looking at NM/Math, Chaos/you as my primaries.

[Titus]

VOTE: not_Mafia


yay

I actually debated using this gif at daystart.

[Titus]

I don't really want to kill nm. The umlaut flubber stuff at the very beginning of the game is just so hard to see them as partners.

Then who do you want to kill?

[Titus]

This still doesn’t account for Titus saving the kill at all.

That's scum's fault. I crumbed it as I had to. They still targeted Datisi.

[Titus]

Chaos's claimed role is super weak in my opinion. It has 1 player in the entire game it can inno, and 1 player in the entire game that it can guilty. And then 10 players that it gives a "fuck if I know" result.

It feels weird that I am somewhat doubtful of the claim because of how shitty it is, and also the fact that it still managed to land on both its inno and its guilty already, to then see you sitting there arguing that it is doubtful because the town is too powerful

Maybe I am just dense (and I am still not gonna take the time to run models lol)

+1

[Titus]

if math is scum, he is traitor scum and protecting NM main scum imo.

i dont see a world where mathblade main scum forgets to submit NK and then spends the entire day hard defending the person most likely to be blamed for "forgetting to submit the NK"

I am not scum but this is the first thing I agree with for a while.

If I am scum I woulda killed Titus last night. Just sayin

One of my theories is you're a traitor.

[Titus]

if math is scum, he is traitor scum and protecting NM main scum imo.

i dont see a world where mathblade main scum forgets to submit NK and then spends the entire day hard defending the person most likely to be blamed for "forgetting to submit the NK"

I am not scum but this is the first thing I agree with for a while.

If I am scum I woulda killed Titus last night. Just sayin

One of my theories is you're a traitor.

Then prove it.

Elim me. Prove the setup is busted. I flip town and y’all win no matter what.

Who cares?

For someone who is apathetic, you're sure up late and passionate. Stop the apathetic egghead routine and read people by behavior.

[Titus]

Mathblade: This setup is unloseable if town don't throw!


Also Mathblade: I'll commit suicide, lets vote me out.

[Titus]

if you're town why can't you just be wrong and NM forgot to put in his kill order at night?

who do you think would decide to "nokill" to frame cowman?

I think that the titus theory is that the nokill was to actually chaos hoping to get a false inno on himself?

Which has nothing to do with our resident miltank

Yes.

Scum cannot multitask either. So the no kill could come from needing to use their PR.

That suggests Gamma but Gamma can't be scum without Chaos sooo

[Titus]

So Math, explain to me how a Chaos/Koba team doesn't win by eliminating you, Ari, and Luke to win?

[Titus]

This braggy MathBlade is very likely town Math.

[Titus]

Anyway, I have work in the AM. Play nice kiddos.

[Titus]

@Math, Chaos's claim includes Koba has no gun. It also includes that he gets no further results.

Good night

[Titus]

Turns out both our naked votes were softing guilties, lol.

yep, and i absolutely ran with "guys i was just covering for chaos i realized he had a guilty i wanted to protect the power roles scum thought i was so good they actually tried to shoot me " all while i was hysterically laughing irl

You do realize this gave cover and legitimacy to a possible scum Chaos right?

[Titus]

and considering the fact i was NOT shot again, makes me think chaos town, because surely a team with scum!chaos figures out i was talking out of my ass for the entirety of day 3?

They could assume sheer luck.

[Titus]

atp I think I need to fullclaim in order to ensure the setup spec goes right, I'm really just 2 shot vs. odd night

Why no n2 shot?

[Titus]

atp I think I need to fullclaim in order to ensure the setup spec goes right, I'm really just 2 shot vs. odd night

Why did you holster night 2?

I mentioned I caught a different crumb from titus, that resulted in me not knowing who she was targeting again, so I wasn't in the mood to potentially waste another shot to being blocked

Fairish, my crumbs were pretty esoteric.

[Titus]

but I think atp I'm conftown via 2 others having to have fudged something in order for me to be scum?

walk me through this?

that would require
a) chaos to be lying about either his result on me or his information
and
b) titus to have somehow blocked me despite being loyal

A and C)Gamma is a PR lying bc he caught crumbs d3 is possible to an outsider.

[Titus]

I think NM's clsim puts us at either a guaranteed scum or autowin.

[Titus]

Nm Math time

[Titus]

DkKoba - Highly Likely Not Main Scum
Gamma Emerald - Highly Likely Not Main Scum
Datisi - Not Main Scum
MathBlade - Not Main Scum
Aristeia - Possible
Titus - Not Main Scum
Lukewarm - Possible
ChaosOmega - Likely Not Main Scum
Not_Mafia - Possible

We have 3 possible main scum. 3 eliminations.

[Titus]

So unless all three of NM/Ari/Luke are town we auto.

[Titus]

Lol mod with the deadline

[Titus]

Part of me says we leave NM alive, and have it known I am not blocking him. Scum don't have a blocker. We force him to check Ari or Luke, whichever we don't eliminate.

If we flip town or traitor then

If NM gets an inno result, we eliminate him to confirm his target isn't main scum. If NM gets a guilty, we get a 1 v 1.

If we eliminate main scum, we go back to him being useless and sort out the PR noise.

[Titus]

If we are in a maf doc + maf neighbor + traito neighbor, then wouldn't all results from nm and dats be useless.

If he gets a guilty, then yeah, that theory is wrong, and we just have 3 group scum, but I am not sure where you are headed if he gets an inno?

At least one scum alive has a PT. Therefore, innocents are clearing. We leash NM. Not seeing what's so hard about that.

[Titus]

Oh right. I forgot. My bad.

[Titus]

Could be just quite possible Mastina put in a broken setup expected us to question how broken it is then just chip away at PRs.

So let’s just see if anyone is confirmed or if Chaos is just scum with Datisi having tried to do the kill N2 and then tried to frame NM today or needed his results.

Datisi doing the night 2 kill is impossible. It would have gone through. I'm loyal which means I only block town.

[Titus]

There is no reason to be against a Chaos elim yet he is.

That means Datisi is scum with Chaos

I doubt the Chaos wagon although it also feels good. I waffle. The only person Datisi can plausibly be scum with is me.

[Titus]

Wait Datisi wouldn’t know Titus is loyal! So in order to keep his charade he has to pretend to be blocked but then no one is left to do the kill!

*sigh*

So Datisi detected my crumbs and no killed? That's your theory?

[Titus]

Then Datisi can’t have an N3 check if loyal if Titus blocks her so he can’t kill again!

Huh? I blocked no one n3.

[Titus]

Wait Datisi wouldn’t know Titus is loyal! So in order to keep his charade he has to pretend to be blocked but then no one is left to do the kill!

*sigh*

So Datisi detected my crumbs and no killed? That's your theory?

That’s my current theory
Otherwise he’d be voting Chaos for the lock town and GG no re we all win.

I'm not voting Chaos yet either...

[Titus]

Then Datisi can’t have an N3 check if loyal if Titus blocks her so he can’t kill again!

Huh? I blocked no one n3.

You didn’t get a chance to crumb it though.

If Datisi kills and you block him thems the ball game. He can’t claim a result on N3 anymore

Then when asked and he says a result conf scum

The only safe move is no kill

This argument can apply to Chaos since that was my last crumb but applying it to Datisi is such a strech

[Titus]

If Chaos no killed in order to be townread, then how would he know to claim a result at SoD?

[Titus]

For anyone who claimed a result (besides Not_Mafia), they'd have to know I visited no one. That dictates a tracker or similar. The only way a tracker exists is if Chaos is scum. Only Chaos could fake a no kill.

[Titus]

Math, why are you supposing that Datisi understood my crumbs when you didn't?

[Titus]

Ran into the problem in Calculasia which shoulda been a loss

Yet it wasn't soo not autowin.

Find his partner.

[Titus]

Ran into the problem in Calculasia which shoulda been a loss

Yet it wasn't soo not autowin.

Find his partner.

I did Chaos and Datisi and if Chaos is town it’s literally idgaf gg we win

I am never voting Datisi. Try again.

[Titus]

What I think math is saying is if both scum try to push the remaining townie they lose, the issue there is they aren’t obligated to do that

Then they bus and they’re outed for bussing.

It’s a no win situation for scum.

That's not true.

[Titus]

Or I have tomorrow to convince you if Chaos flips red.

I literally Gotta go

You're not convincing me there. Ever.

[Titus]

I am pretty sure Math is town here.

I get Luke's resistance though. Math's gone off the deep end on dolved and Datisi scum. I can see Chaos scum though.

[Titus]

i have nonzero anxiety about titus dying tonight and people yeeting me tomorrow because math is loud and has a new shiny conspiracy theory going on

They'd flip Chaos first before you. There's no clear on Chaos.

[Titus]

Datisi, talk to me about a Chaos Koba team.

I waffle on Chaos.

[Titus]

Koba would have to be a straight goon though.

[Titus]

I don't like Koba scum mechanically but his push on us was bad. Maybe T v T though?

[Titus]

The problem I run into is I like no one scum by play except for NM but I liked his earlier posting...

[Titus]

*his slot's

[Titus]

I'm pretty much of the position that I will eliminate anyone Datisi and Gamma agree to besides Koba or Math.

[Titus]

This feels very weirdchamp but
Titus do you think an Ari/Datisi team is at all possible?

I'm never voting Datisi.

[Titus]

My posts lately

[Titus]

Now that someone mentions a bulletproof traitor, it makes sense. For that to be true, it would have to be the four scum scenario though. Otherwise the three people having PTs rule would be violated.

[Titus]

I need to reflect on this. Given Math has Datisi in his PoE, I am reluctant to follow him on Chaos.

[Titus]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Titus]

Luke has gone awfully silent or maybe that's game pace.

[Titus]

Math these last few pages feels like scum who is mad at a townsided set up, and then felt like he was in auto lose and is madly trying to widen the elim pool - see his interactions with Dats.

So I think that the team is either Math-Not_Mafia Or Chaos-Koba

Koba is never shot before chaos, so I am down for any of [math, Not_Mafia, chaos]

Titus, I would like to kill chaos, because he was been my top scum read all game x.x

But, if you would prefer one of the others, you can count yourself as a double voter with my vote

ngl this sounds like a reasonable assessment of the game

@datisi

where are you inclined to go in this pool?

I missed this and agree here.

[Titus]

@Datisi, The only reason I don't want Math is that I have miselimmed him so many times before.

I'm protecting you again tonight btw.

[Titus]

@Datisi, The only reason I don't want Math is that I have miselimmed him so many times before.

I'm protecting you again tonight btw.

if im confirmed clear here by merit of a chaos flip you protect me.

if i die, you should be limmed.

I don't see any way I am protecting you given your wrong pushes and arrogance. I have zero confidence in your abilities and you treated Gamma like shit.

I think people would realize I did the right thing if you died.

[Titus]

@Datisi, The only reason I don't want Math is that I have miselimmed him so many times before.

I'm protecting you again tonight btw.

if im confirmed clear here by merit of a chaos flip you protect me.

if i die, you should be limmed.

I don't see any way I am protecting you given your wrong pushes and arrogance. I have zero confidence in your abilities and you treated Gamma like shit.

I think people would realize I did the right thing if you died.

what did alch flip again?

Alch flipped town. I was wrong but I wasn't arrogant and toxic about it. You're pushing Gamma who is town and you're toxic about it so *shrug*.

[Titus]

Where do you get your gifs?

[Titus]

VC 1.04

Flubbernugget (4):

Umlaut 29, ChaosOmega 71, T3 113, Vulture 152

Seanzie (2):

Gamma Emerald 13, Flubbernugget 26

T3 (2):

Datisi 76, Alchemist21 81

Umlaut (1):

Titus 74

Alchemist21 (1):

Seanzie 12

Titus (1):

MegAzumarill 142

Aristeia (1):

Lukewarm 171

not voting:

Aristeia 166

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

and, MegAzumarill is v/la till Sunaday

Chaos and Koba is not a thing.

That would leave Gamma koba but Chaos would clear Gamma so that leaves Koba town.

[Titus]

My moonlogic is Chaos and Gamma Emerald. Not a big fan logically but it could be a thing.

[Titus]

@Chaos, Fair. Low power could be the name of the game but it's rather unlikely.

[Titus]

For our theory, our power should be low.

The problem is that I think scum shooting a traitor is far more likely than a no kill. Maybe scum doctor, scum neighbor, traitor neighbor, traitor bp.

[Titus]

I'm ready to vote not mafia and call it a day.

[Titus]

@Chaos, Every theory I come up with is bad. I am glad I blocked no one because we'd be even more confused.

[Titus]

I'm waffling on who I should vote. And am heavily torn between math and chaos....

@Titus, if you say something like "I see your earlier posts, but I still think you should vote NM" I will, but I am waiting to make sure you think about what I said before we go through with a nm elim :/

Which earlier posts?

I am also waffling onto eliminating MathBlade. He can’t be around in elo and I have been wrong on him lately. I doubt this is MathBlade scum but I am not sure who is.

[Titus]

neighbourized players do flip non-neighbour

but neighbourizer by itself counts as having a pt and i'm brainstorming, it's very likely not the scenario anyway

but BP traitor wouldn't get shot if scum knew about them

Right. But why have a traitor neighbor at all?

[Titus]

That would just ensure scum couldn't communicate at all if one slot flipped. It's possible I guess though.

[Titus]

Especially given the traffic analysts.

[Titus]

If scum knew about the traffic analyst, bussing Umlaut makes sense.

[Titus]

This has probably been mentioned but what if we have a traitor and a group scum neighbouriser and the no kill was the last group scum using their neighbouriser?

That's possible. Then scum would want to kill the traffic analysts.

VOTE: Math

Luke, I'll look over your posts in a bit

[Titus]

The issue I have with Math is he griped the same way in Calculasia. He feels tonally like his town self, but I felt the same way in mbos.

The Datisi kill has to be someone who didn't get the crumbs. Math admitted to not getting the crumbs, but a lot of people put it together after the fact. That's the point of crumbing though.

[Titus]

i kind of dislike this post, for this reason - if all of mafia are in a hood together, that would mean that (1) gamma is basically a 2-shot alignment cop ("3 people in a pt" means neighbour is a hardguilty) (2) you are an even-night alignment cop (3) i am a full alignment cop. i don't think it has to be said that that is bonkers. so the fact that that is being said so casually while not really pushing anywhere is like... eh?

This type of post is typically bad. However, Datisi and Not_Mafia could generate false clears if Umlaut dies. If someone who didn't have a PT was neighborized, that would be a false clear. This is particularly true if the scum neighborizer was loyal (meaning it could only hit traitors).

[Titus]

So we'd have a scum neighbor traitor, a scum loyal neighborizer and a mafia neighbor.

[Titus]

Well if thry know the traitor, then the loyal isn't necessary

[Titus]

If someone who didn't have a PT was neighborized, that would be a false clear. This is particularly true if the scum neighborizer was loyal (meaning it could only hit traitors).

i don't understand how that would create false clears. not like i can know whether any pt's exist in the game or not.

Let's use an example. Right now, if you checked anyone in the game (unless scum neighborized last night), you should get an inno. Any check after Umlaut's death but before a neighborization happened would come back clear as any scum couldn't talk.

Once scum neighborize, you would get useful results because they could talk.

So any N2 checks are likely invalid (unless they neighborized the night Datisi was "shot" and the night I holstered). N3 checks would likely be partially valid. N4 checks would be fully valid.

[Titus]

I need to check my math on the results hold on. Neighborization should resolve before invests.

[Titus]

Supposing scum neighborized n2 instead of shooting to cover for Umlaut's death making everyone with no PTs. Then, one scum would be clear to a traffic analyst. This means that we would have 2 scum in a hood while a third would generate an innocent result despite being scum. <--- This is where the false inno comes into play.

Then scum neighborize n3. This makes all n3 results valid again. However, we don't know the n3 results are valid because the assumption would be that I blocked the kill.

UNVOTE: Mathblade

[Titus]

The assumption is that I never holster. If I never holster and scum neighborize instead of killing, I report an innocent that technically isn't true. This is doubly possible for reasons I shouldn't say.

[Titus]

like, you're making cases that revolve around a scum neighbourizer that might as well not even exist (and my guess is that it doesn't exist considering a flipped mafia neighbour)

we don't know if a mafia neighbourizer exists. therefore any speculation about my results that requires a mafia neighbourizer existing is complete void until that actually flips.

It's the best explanation for the n3 no kill.

[Titus]

Unless it was a combined neighbourizer doctor, it violates Chaos assumption though

[Titus]

chaos didn't assume anything, he claimed informed
if another scum-with-a-gun flips chaos is confirmed scum

We're assuming Chaos town there.

If Chaos is scum, our assumption of a doctor goes out the window. That leaves one scum with a fake claim (the neighborizer).

If all of you, NM and Gamma check Chaos, it should confirm or dispel my theory. We can have NM claim his result first since he is FoSed.

[Titus]

After all, you think you're useless. If we get innos, we can suppose you're right. But if you get guilties, I am right.

That would also conftown Math if I am correct.

[Titus]

setup spec like this is why scum win in normals like this and why designers make these kinds of setups bc yall will argue about "town power" when its all fucking designer wifom meant to get people to mislim multiple PRs in a row if they play poorly.

We don't eliminate any PR with my theory though. Nor you or Math.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ari

[Titus]

I can't check Chaos, I specified this before, I was only two shot

Well NM plus Datisi would still be enough.

[Titus]

titus, your "reason" for defending math is bc youve mislimmed them before.

frankly my arguments are much better and im gonna instant vote math in limlo if im alive

Voting Ari out and getting a guilty on Chaos actually conftowns Math sooo

[Titus]

If my theory is wrong, I'll vote Math tomorrowm

[Titus]

titus, your "reason" for defending math is bc youve mislimmed them before.

frankly my arguments are much better and im gonna instant vote math in limlo if im alive

Voting Ari out and getting a guilty on Chaos actually conftowns Math sooo

titus, there are no power roles that can get guilties anymore. at least none that can get them reliably. this whole talk about assuming a scum neighborizer is very stupid.

You do get Chaos has a PT if I am right

[Titus]

titus, i am absolutely not betting this whole plan on the existence of a scum neighbourizer who did whatever you're assuming he did! we have a mafia neighbour flipped ffs

You don’t have to. All you have to do is investigate Chaos tonight with NM.

[Titus]

In fact, I am willing to trade town Math for your word that you and NM will investigate Chaos tonight. If I am wrong on both, no sweat. The results are useless and we get a chance on a scum!Math. If I am right, we trade 1 for 1.

[Titus]

i think if chaos were scum they're trueclaiming informed info and its still the same setup spec in that case, as i see some incentive to bus the effective TA enabler

No. Under my theory, it's near impossible for Chaos to be true claiming unless there is a neighborizer doctor which is absurd.

[Titus]

Now, if NM agrees to investigate Chaos, we can go forward with limming Math.

Sorry if you're town Math, but you a) cannot live until elo and b) I have no problem trading you for near lockscum.

[Titus]

There's no neighborizer

Then you get your math elimination and Chaos comes back innocent/useless. It's a win win. We prove my theory tonight or get NM and Chaos as only scum with each other.

[Titus]

We just need NM to agree and I'll vote Math.

[Titus]

titus, walk me through what theory are you testing with this.

If Chaos is group scum, he naturally comes back with a gun. So his statement would be a lie. He would be the neighborizer thus would have a PT.

If Chaos is a traitor, he lies to cover up his buddy (a neighborizer) so we look for a doctor instead and get mislead. My innos are false. He'd also be neighborized given 2 failed kills.

Either way, scum Chaos has a PT.

Thus when you check him, you get a PT result.

[Titus]

This explains the mod confirmation as well.

[Titus]

titus how does a TA return a red check, asking for a friend

No town has a PT atm. They would have claimed it. Thus, has a PT is a red check.