mini normal 2226; who won

[DkKoba]

i dont give a shit about your ego. i was working with the info I had from my point of view - you were playing assuming I knew the information all along.

[DkKoba]

consider that you were being extremely uncharitable towards me and assumed I knew more than I did - and that affected our interactions because stuff doesn't track from my POV.

[DkKoba]

I detected something extremely weird in your corner - and I was correct. I just was wrong about the direction it was in - because you WERE being shifty and deceptive about something - and you think because I did catch you that it's scummy LOL get real ur just egomad that you felt forced to claim

[DkKoba]

it wasn't ignorance - it was me being fucking good at this game and knowing when someone is being dishonest about something or has more info than they are letting on. i can sense when a game has a masonry, for instance.

read the way I progessed on you and tell me that isn't the way someone who is actually *uninformed* about you being town treats you

[DkKoba]

oh yeah, now i can talk about why i thought scum doesn't attack titus

basically i saw the scum at start of day 3 which was obviously titus saying she had a save on me, and i thought if you're scum and you just had your kill fail, you're obviously on the lookout for that kinda thing

so i assumed scum would've seen that, and attacking someone like titus who hs a claim to fall back on just makes you look like shit for like no gain

can confirm as scum I am much more vigilant about softs/etc. although as town I also when efforting look out for it lol

[DkKoba]

datisi bless u, you're a keystone to a town victory by being a stabilizing force and not giving in to the scumreads against me

[DkKoba]

I believe the option is "you're both scum who no killed and are doing a gambit" but the fact that I know I flip town and that I have expressed to make sure you 2 are not unopposed in limlo, would make that unlikely to me. especially considering the trajectory of the game atp.

[DkKoba]

it wasn't ignorance - it was me being fucking good at this game and knowing when someone is being dishonest about something or has more info than they are letting on. i can sense when a game has a masonry, for instance.

read the way I progessed on you and tell me that isn't the way someone who is actually *uninformed* about you being town treats you

I am beyond reason at this point. You’ve officially made me channel RadiantCowbells because I’m certain were he in my position he’d also want your head for the shit you’ve done. Your play here has done nothing but help scum regardless of your alignment. Eat the lim that’s coming to you.

radientcowbells isn't a 1 dimensional player, this is quite insulting lmao.

[DkKoba]

also I welcome the fact the PoE shrank by at least 1 person just now - makes the game easier as long as ego doesn't take over.

[DkKoba]

Gamma, even the doc save suspected(and still may actually) - don't pretend that my push against your little corner of people *has* to be from scum because clearly that is proven false.

[DkKoba]

Before I go and pull the things i saw from alch that made me think he is town -> I'd like Alch to present how he feels about the gamestate now that it's shifted dramatically.

[DkKoba]

i love how koba is praising me but also still ignoring my request

ok cool i'm actually going to sleep, fk yall for making me stay up

sorry - was getting to why I wasn't doing it yet.

[DkKoba]

I detected something extremely weird in your corner - and I was correct. I just was wrong about the direction it was in - because you WERE being shifty and deceptive about something - and you think because I did catch you that it's scummy LOL get real ur just egomad that you felt forced to claim

Am I egomad, perhaps, but it doesn’t change the fact you pushed 2 town PRs that until you came in were widely accepted as town
Regardless of your flip you pushed a scum agenda. It’s that simple.

fam imma just say this is frankly a very gross thing to say coming from you.

[DkKoba]

Gamma, even the doc save suspected(and still may actually) - don't pretend that my push against your little corner of people *has* to be from scum because clearly that is proven false.

I’m not certain you flip scum: I’m certain that you have to DIE.

if you wanna play grudges dont play in any future games with me. I dont tolerate that kind of play.

[DkKoba]

ok lol now im just tempted to self vote so i can be absolved of this game and let you and titus eat massive crow

[DkKoba]

Gamma, even the doc save suspected(and still may actually) - don't pretend that my push against your little corner of people *has* to be from scum because clearly that is proven false.

I’m not certain you flip scum: I’m certain that you have to DIE.

if you wanna play grudges dont play in any future games with me. I dont tolerate that kind of play.

I’m not gonna prosecute this past this game unless you make it an issue

cool, well I'm not gonna respect a single thought you have on this game until you try to look at stuff holistically rather than emotionally.

[DkKoba]

You are so 1 dimensional holy shit lol

what the fuck do you think my motivation was?

do you think you guys had a sign above your heads like "hey look these 2 are PRs with info who could claim!" and then like the fact i didnt even see titus soft like LMFAO

[DkKoba]

No I would have normally noticed it as town - but as I genuinely have been low efforting i didn't even.

If I did as town(or scum) - there was a 0% chance I pursue titus in thread.

now if i sub into a game where scum lose a member right after I sub in - I'm not gonna low effort that shit and intentionally handicap myself.



go cool down and come back when you're not clouded with thoughts of "koba do thing i dont like"

[DkKoba]

I think its like really plainly obvious I am town based on your revelation - but there's a distinct laziness in shifting the angle you view me (intent/motivation, not just strict actions).

if actions = alignment, this game would be much more solved.

[DkKoba]

If everyone decides Alch is the better pick I can defer your death but you die today or you die tomorrow pretty much

cool, check me then.

granted you probably die if town tonight so if you are alive, there better be a green check with my name on it.

[DkKoba]

because gamma's role is clearly odd night and he should have a 100% confiremd green or red check.

with the setup info - a role cop is literally an alignment cop.

[DkKoba]

there is no reason for scum not to target there tonight.

[DkKoba]

nope I softed it to protect the real on but it looks like it was positive utility claimed from my pov in terms of dayplay.

[DkKoba]

because gamma's role is clearly odd night and he should have a 100% confiremd green or red check.

with the setup info - a role cop is literally an alignment cop.

Vts don't exist because?

scum neighbor shows up as neighbor.

can't hide from rolecop.

[DkKoba]

nope I softed it to protect the real on but it looks like it was positive utility claimed from my pov in terms of dayplay.

you know who else benefits from those claims happening? SCUM!!!

ok but resolving 2 slots at once is actually pretty useful too.

now you have no excuse for not dying tonight unless there is another no kill - and no one needs to ever tinfoil titus anymore.

[DkKoba]

because gamma's role is clearly odd night and he should have a 100% confiremd green or red check.

with the setup info - a role cop is literally an alignment cop.

Vts don't exist because?

scum neighbor shows up as neighbor.

can't hide from rolecop.

Right. Vts are a thing. False neighbor.

imma just let you figure out why this is a bad statement.

hint: what does VT show up on for a rolecop report vs what does a neighbor show up as on a rolecop report.

[DkKoba]

I don't think this setup has a traitor and its just wifom

[DkKoba]

that said it's possible the remaining members of the scumteam are neighbour + goon so a "vanilla" result ain't clearing but that's neither here nor there ig

oh my brain lol


i forgot that being in a scum pt makes u automatically in a PT .. the neighbor flip from umlaut just sorta made my brain shut off and think that it had to be so.

another townslip oops!

[DkKoba]

I think atp - if there is a town neighbor they *should* claim for the sake of us having a better understanding of the setup. scum already know who the neighbor is and who it is - hiding that info just hurts us as town

[DkKoba]

So here's the situation.

Scum have a dillema.
Do they shoot me and gamble that I block any investigative that might have a guilty? [I still feel neighbor is a misleading role but we'll see.]
Vanilla doesn't clear anyone and Chaos is an unknown investigative.
Do they shoot Gamma and pray I am not on him?
Do they shoot Chaos and assume I am not on him?
If they fail their kill, they are near certainly facing another investigation.

yes, this actually *complicated* the game much more for scum in a way that scum wouldn't like.

[DkKoba]

if I were to put an ordered list right this second of towniest to least towniest based on everything I've read so far, the bottom 3 names would be alch-ari-lukewarm.

[DkKoba]

I think atp - if there is a town neighbor they *should* claim for the sake of us having a better understanding of the setup. scum already know who the neighbor is and who it is - hiding that info just hurts us as town

I'm taking neighbor as a scumclaim given the OP.

shh I wanted to bait them into claiming

fr tho ~ neighborhoods *have* to have a hood mate in a normal game

so there's that

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Alch

Why not? Then I can catch up overnight and see if I find any scum in Titus/Gamma/Chaos.

If it’s actually Chaos I don’t know if I’ll be more disappointed in myself or everyone else for letting him go.

I will be happy if it’s Chaos because then Titus can go “I was right on Umlaut” and I can go “I was right on Chaos” lol

reasons to townread chaos being outshined by much of the playerlist atp - was concerned mainly with their lack of engagement with the game after wagon dissolved on them but the fact they led on umlaut SoD2 is pretty significant.

[DkKoba]

*me, in my dayplay corner watching yall play with nightplay*

[DkKoba]

that said it's possible the remaining members of the scumteam are neighbour + goon so a "vanilla" result ain't clearing but that's neither here nor there ig

oh my brain lol


i forgot that being in a scum pt makes u automatically in a PT .. the neighbor flip from umlaut just sorta made my brain shut off and think that it had to be so.

another townslip oops!

this I could maybe see as a townslip except you're scrambling to get one to stick

i mean it could in a scum!me world be me TMIing the whole scum team is neighbors - but no, it was me genuinely me having brain worms over how the info applies to scum.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Alch

Why not? Then I can catch up overnight and see if I find any scum in Titus/Gamma/Chaos.

If it’s actually Chaos I don’t know if I’ll be more disappointed in myself or everyone else for letting him go.

I will be happy if it’s Chaos because then Titus can go “I was right on Umlaut” and I can go “I was right on Chaos” lol

reasons to townread chaos being outshined by much of the playerlist atp - was concerned mainly with their lack of engagement with the game after wagon dissolved on them but the fact they led on umlaut SoD2 is pretty significant.

It’s really not. Scum change votes all the time.

6 naked votes aren’t all invest PRs.

I kinda wanna see how things develop here but I think there be shenanigans.

I just want time to find them.

alright. Now that my universe has been crushed - tell me more about Chaos since they've slipped down the list due to revelations and such.

[DkKoba]

idk but i feel pure vibes from the current conversation flow and its nice

[DkKoba]

I was talking about my list

I'm definitely not considering limming them today but I have an eye on them now that was not there before.

[DkKoba]

Why did you target Umlaut N1? What were your thoughts on Chaos claiming TI who had a guilty on Umlaut?

Umlaut was in this neat little venn diagram overlap spot of "low content thus good target for TIs" and "suspicious person who's likely to have to claim and as scum good for me to target since my MO as rolecop is to keep people honest"
my thoughts on Chaos are that I'm skeptical but I can see how Chaos targeted Umlaut, since I presume he operated on the same logic of "this slot is low content so I should use my action to bring him into the light"

So you didn’t think much of another TI existing?

I'm a gated rolecop, I figured there was room for another TI in the setup

Both firing on N1? Seems sus to me but I wanna see this play out.

nightplay will solve it.

[DkKoba]

I'm an informed gunsmith. N1 Umlaut has a gun, N2 Koba no gun, N3 Gamma has a gun.

I am informed that only one mafia has a gun, which is why I've been bringing up traitors throughout the game.

Well in this case Koba actually is town, since Koba is vanilla, and has no gun; this means that there is no role combination Koba can be in order to be mafia without a gun. So while I’m still disappointed in them, Koba is conf town now at least

eat crow

[DkKoba]

also we're turbo eliminiating luke today

And i said alch was town amd yall rushed that shit.

[DkKoba]

also i confirm im vt if it isnt clear

[DkKoba]

Its an expression i picked up from another community as an expression when someone egregiously misreads someone else and then they get confirmed town one way or another

[DkKoba]

If you’re going to continue being unpleasant and acting like your play was perfectly fine then I’m very likely just avoiding you from now on, because you still thought “these people are being cagey so they have to be scum because there’s ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NO POSSIBLE UNIVERSE where they’re PRs right?”

i was ready to come into today pushing you and titus pulling a joint at the hip play sans the no kill so

still not off the table but that's why i made you check me

[DkKoba]

I was the biggest defender of d3's lim so dont even come at me LOL

yes i was reevaling but i still didn't think they were scum - im just thorough

[DkKoba]

still not off the table but that's why i made you check me

yes he is, unless you think omega is his scumbuddy, as the positive gunsmith result conftowns him from omega's pov

+1 to i don't wanna wake up to 20 pages of bs

was more referring to titus being never off the table because *shenanigans* but that works too.

[DkKoba]

also i deserved to be a little high and mighty and brag about being clear after the way my slot was treated last dayphase ~~

im gonna actually catch up now.

[DkKoba]

so, datisi/titus/gamma/koba are our clears, basically?

the only way koba can be scum is if one of gamma/chaos is lying, and the only way gamma can be scum is if chaos is lying... something something occam's, koba prob town?

datisi with the based read on me when i subbed in >>>>>>>>

[DkKoba]

u were on several town wagons d3... don't talk down to me

[DkKoba]

u are just mad i made you claim bc you were constantly pushing on townies lol

[DkKoba]

i think last scum is in {titus - luke - ari - math }

and the quickhammer from luke gives me traitor vibes so

[DkKoba]

the reason i treated ur slot the way i did gamma was bc i have respect for ur scumgame now so maybe like sit down pls and realize this is the price u pay for getting better at scum - I deal with the suspicion pretty much *every* game.

[DkKoba]

last [2] scum

[DkKoba]

i don't believe in a 4 scum universe existing.

[DkKoba]

a) its unbalanced as fuck no matter how you put it
b) its never been done in mini normals

[DkKoba]

u are just mad i made you claim bc you were constantly pushing on townies lol

Mind telling me how being wrong is a scumtell?

i dont care tbh bc we're both clear

[DkKoba]

i got out my frustrations, I'm already over it.

[DkKoba]

already beat u to it math

[DkKoba]

Titus, if you have any questions for me, or want me to claim let me know.

But I feel like it is pretty hard for me to know where to go for the day before mass claim and before you talk about your night action.

hardclaim.

[DkKoba]

So what I’m getting is you can’t actually rationalize your idiotic play and are hiding behind bullshit now

i dont want you to get poofed so stop talking like this please.

[DkKoba]

I’ll be chill once I can tell you’ll actually play better next game, which I’m not seeing

i dont think i played that poorly this game considering i tried to derail 2 town wagons on the day after my replace in, so thanks.

[DkKoba]

gamma if you want me to say what I wasn't saying, because you absolutely are pushing me to it:

i find it extremely selfish how you played the last dayphase and that revealing that secret absolutely helped the gamestate from other people's povs, including my own.

next time just say "i have a mechanical reason to townread X"

thats it! i ain't gonna question it.

now play in the present - > not the past. I don't wanna deal with this shit when I subbed into this game as a favor to the others who needed someone to keep the game going.

[DkKoba]

strongman isn't gun flavored - it's muscle flavored


so i guess it is gun flavored but not the type gunsmith looks for lol

[DkKoba]

also thats definitely a question better suited for implosion's DMs

[DkKoba]

So I guess one shot strongman on the doc could work, they’d also need an investigative too to find the PRs…

Awful overloaded.

Maybe though?

1 shot strongman that they burned early? lol

[DkKoba]

I am. But I just don’t think Mastina makes back to back unwinnable setups for scum.

if her townplay is anything to judge by she will absolutely do the same thing twice

[DkKoba]

ok but in this game state with 9 alive why would scum choose to deliberately no-kill?

it would actually explain the delayed night end as well if the mod didnt have a nightkill action from the scum player and delayed to give him a new chance to submit a nk but he just didn't do it.

it would be against the rules to allow scum to submit actions after the deadline. tris prob just was sleeping at the time and couldn't flip it and then was busy in the morning. I have had that predicament as a game mod myself. (night begins at ungodly hour when I dont have work the next day, then starts when I do)

[DkKoba]

I have delayed for the same reason of "I have a job and don't have the time to sit by a computer and flip this right now"

[DkKoba]

NM is townlock for me so too bad

[DkKoba]

i will likely be late in starting the day.

i will start the day at some point after 1 pm PST, and probably after 2 pm PST

^ the timing lines up with the mod giving a 24 hour extension and prodding the mafia player to submit a nightkill but the mafia player just doesn't do it.

once night deadline ends you can't submit actions.

[DkKoba]

This is just pissing me off.

I am going to play pathfinder.

I just like can’t. Right now.

Today has been utter shit.

I'm striking the theory as a clear - it's all good.

[DkKoba]

this is why we do night checkins for people due for prods at EoD ;P

[DkKoba]

I find it >rand that scum complain about a setup being townsided because from their pov it looks more bleak when in reality town is usually is always unsure :3

[DkKoba]

tbh i suggest in limlo if titus still alive to lim her if after all is said and done with PoE we dont get a single scum.


i dont care that she gave an extra ML -> in the world where the current PoE doesnt yield a scum, the odds of a titus mech gambit goes way up.


to titus -> you have nothing to fear here if you are town because the reality of the gamestate will not allow this situation to happen with you as town here.

[DkKoba]

lol mcat getting killed d1

[DkKoba]

seeing who was on that scumteam vs who was on the town team its no surprise scum could steamroll that tbh

[DkKoba]

its not in the game notes so no

[DkKoba]

math/datisi is a spicy team read i have rn :3

i refuse to let go of my townread on NM because it means ceding i have finally lost my 100% read rate on him

[DkKoba]

math/datisi is a spicy team read i have rn :3

i refuse to let go of my townread on NM because it means ceding i have finally lost my 100% read rate on him

That's impossible.

I jailkept Datisi n2 with no nk. I'm loyal. Unless you think scum no showed multiple nights in a row, that dog don't hunt. A Datisi/Math team doesn't do that.

ah correct.

ok

well luke/math goes back on the table with an optional ari boxing in :3

[DkKoba]

I kinda feel like we have to eliminate Math/Not_Mafia but I want to eliminate Chaos.

vetoed

[DkKoba]

VOTE: MathBlade

anyways i said there was 1 scum in math/titus/gamma and im standing by that now :3

[DkKoba]

I want to vote Chaos here, as I think the team is Chaos and Koba here.

Gamma and Koba is a near zero chance.

why am I scum?

With me being near clear - you need to actually scumcase me here.


Your scumread on chaos is laughably terrible based on d2 and as I'm town - your teamread is equally bad to me.


Chaos is gonna resolve at night in most likliehood - you can have fun with that tho.


Dude's claim is even complex enough to where when I normally don't wanna clear people based on mechs, the level of creativity in the claim makes me not wanna bother.




You just want me to be scum here out of ego prob. I shielded Alch after he showed he was town - and you helped push him over.

Sit down and assume I'm town instead of trying to push this shitty world.

[DkKoba]

Checker checking a VT isn’t an inno. Checker could be blocked hit an ascetic. (Redirected non normal only)

Here Gamma gets a result of VT. That act of the result + Vt = inno unless mod puts in a goon.

Mod puts in a gun then guilty to gunsmith.

Town also threw by yeeting the Checker.

So again town threw..scum won because town threw proving my point

I don't understand your first line, the only thing that could block the Checker in that setup was the Loyal JK...

The Neapo is objectively stronger than either Informed gunsmith who can only find 1 scum and a gated rolecop that we have.

on top of that the scum team is uninformed who their traitor is and the town has an extra Innocent Child (Delayed) to boot.

My point was that such a setup

has

passed review in the past by Mastina and she rejected the contention that it was unbalanced or townsided in the post game so there would be no reason that she would not create a setup that is similar in terms of power balance.

that sounds like mastina yes

[DkKoba]

scumming on this site is easy as long as rand doesnt screw u lol


just fuck up people's expectations and dont play stupid and u win

[DkKoba]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87222

I mean look here.

Mastina got told her setup was unwinnable for scum by many others and I am over do for a more detailed math breakdown on this game but literally many people have told her certain things are unwinnable.

So *shrug*

I think in that setup, you need to cc

probably something that should be something more people do ~!

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I think we do this here and hope this is what's going on rather than Chaos and Koba.

Everyone else here I am getting massive townpings on.

after this game u need to seriously update how you read me - i will cite every single game u misread me in and bury anything u try against me in the future, even if I am scum (although I expect you townread me still if i rand scum and you change nothing)

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I think we do this here and hope this is what's going on rather than Chaos and Koba.

Everyone else here I am getting massive townpings on.

after this game u need to seriously update how you read me - i will cite every single game u misread me in and bury anything u try against me in the future, even if I am scum (although I expect you townread me still if i rand scum and you change nothing)

Then stop being so scummy. I'll always scumread you if you act above basic questioning, scream down my townreads, and attempt to carry grudges into future games.

Right now, I am looking at NM/Math, Chaos/you as my primaries.

"stop being so scummy"

oh sorry i didnt know shielding my townreads was scummy especially when they're accurate.


get real.

[DkKoba]

you wouldn't know my scumtells if they slapped you in the face

[DkKoba]

also I highly doubt Mastina listens to you given her wallposts in the Garfield game saying you're wrong

she also disagreed with you after the 3 scum doc game

she will not take criticism xD

[DkKoba]

altho tbf the 3 doc setup was alright because yall didnt even bother limming the obv fake vig

[DkKoba]

hey titus if chaos gets killed here- you target me tonight.


no questions asked.

[DkKoba]

(koba why did you not say if they are town? well its because it is literally blatant that chaos is town and you have to be scum or horribly in another world to see otherwise.)

[DkKoba]

Chaos's claimed role is super weak in my opinion. It has 1 player in the entire game it can inno, and 1 player in the entire game that it can guilty. And then 10 players that it gives a "fuck if I know" result.

It feels weird that I am somewhat doubtful of the claim because of how shitty it is, and also the fact that it still managed to land on both its inno and its guilty already, to then see you sitting there arguing that it is doubtful because the town is too powerful

Maybe I am just dense (and I am still not gonna take the time to run models lol)

since you're sitting in poe - how do you feel about ari/math scum team?

[DkKoba]

are umlaut or chaos at all experienced in setup creation/design?

[DkKoba]

You mean what if town throws and scum are god tier?

Then it’s possible scum win but that’s not even remotely probable

well it is

a path

It’s also a path to victory for town if scum no kill every night.

Play shouldn’t be balanced around that.

There has to be a remotely probable path to victory.

its more likely titus is scum here over chaos. get real.

[DkKoba]

Chaos's claimed role is super weak in my opinion. It has 1 player in the entire game it can inno, and 1 player in the entire game that it can guilty. And then 10 players that it gives a "fuck if I know" result.

It feels weird that I am somewhat doubtful of the claim because of how shitty it is, and also the fact that it still managed to land on both its inno and its guilty already, to then see you sitting there arguing that it is doubtful because the town is too powerful

Maybe I am just dense (and I am still not gonna take the time to run models lol)

+1

Why is Chaos informed when there’s already an informed in the OP?

this is a stupid question

[DkKoba]

im turning on harsh koba mode, my patience is expired.

[DkKoba]

no it really is

do you want me to dunk on it ?

[DkKoba]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86324

this game had global informed info AND an informed gunsmith.

designed my mastina.


even more confirms chaos as legit lol


you';re just scum who's venting about the unfortunateness of trying to big brain a mastina setup

[DkKoba]

This braggy MathBlade is very likely town Math.

whats your read accuracy on math in the past

[DkKoba]

just gonna follow the opposite reads of titus to win the game >>>>>>

[DkKoba]

math has to argue setup spec because they can't win with dayplay atp lol

[DkKoba]

fam im only clear by virtue of a dual check by both PRs lol
its not that strong

[DkKoba]

by virtue of dayplay chaos is hella town but ok lol

also my slot never claimed vt before the result and i claimed pr on replace in

[DkKoba]

hi

[DkKoba]

Turns out both our naked votes were softing guilties, lol.

yep, and i absolutely ran with "guys i was just covering for chaos i realized he had a guilty i wanted to protect the power roles scum thought i was so good they actually tried to shoot me " all while i was hysterically laughing irl

To be fair I thought you were the one with a guilty and was shading you.

I was literally telling Titus “stop townreading Dat so he doesn’t get shot”

Instead she just protects you and I saw your soft and not hers lol

I was so busy getting scum to kill T3 who was not a PR role it was like doh

this is a confession

[DkKoba]

goodnight

[DkKoba]

i want a double vote

[DkKoba]

i barely read and saw nm claimed TA thats it and i kinda think thats still fine because ive seen the "too many pr" mod wifom.
a roleblocker scum in titus makes more and more sense to me now so yep

[DkKoba]

protective is the odd one out among the investigatives so yeet

[DkKoba]

remember how i dont care abt mechs?
this is an example for yall. Idc how clever a claim is or what nonsense someone had to pull off.

its all about dayplay baybee

[DkKoba]

their*

Datisi, talk to me about a Chaos Koba team.

I waffle on Chaos.

the thought made sense to me considering how strong was koba defending chaos. otherwise i'm not sure i got much. i can try to think again tomorrow, i was about to go to bed, irl has been a bitch the past few hours. pls try to actually not kill anyone while i'm gone this time. >_>

fam - chaos burying their partner on a guilty in a setup with probable traitor is ridiculous lmao

And if no traitor theres 0 chance i dont take the shot at titus in a chaos and I groupscum world

[DkKoba]

math is openwolfing and just complaining abt the setup atp bc its his only play as scum here bc they lost me as a mislim lol

[DkKoba]

You have to be really bad to go after the person who guiltied scum b4 limlo

[DkKoba]

Lim chaos-> nightkill me bc im mech clear so theres no nka to point to him

[DkKoba]

VOTE: chaosomega
If this flips scum Koba goes next no questions asked

you dont think im scum - you just want me to be scum. Which is a level 0 play

[DkKoba]

think of what t3 is gonna say in postgame about how bad this lim is.
Scum has been pr hunting with kills all game. They are prob informed of setup

[DkKoba]

I need to reflect on this. Given Math has Datisi in his PoE, I am reluctant to follow him on Chaos.

because he is scum trying to eliminate people we should be removing from PoE based on dayplay

[DkKoba]

Its one thing to have a tinfoil on someone
, it's another to push their elimination based on it

[DkKoba]

like dude is literally saying "haha i dont have control of the gamestate"
Yet - is getting votes on someone who buried scum d2 from a a guilty
has you pocketed (again)
is pushing for the elim that will let him kill me without allowing for NKA to be used for my kill. (Id be mechanically clear off omega's flip)
-is currently only hard fosed by one person - me. And he can't directly discred me so its an awkward spot so he goes on the spiel about setup balance to rush to remove me via the point above

Him saying he has control of the gamestate as scum is a hyperbolic statement but by no means is he in a bad spot here gamestate wise - UNLESS - i convince enough people.

Math hasnt delivered a scum elim and is pushing on exactly those people who did.

everything he says should be ignored unless it can be backed up reasonably.

There is no holistic reason to call math town here. And those that do are being foolish and stubborn.

[DkKoba]

Every option is tinfoil

For Not Mafia to be scum I have to believe he claims VT then changes it. I don’t see scum doing that.

Scum have to be somewhere and so elimming Chaos is the best path to victory.

Victory for scum - not town.

[DkKoba]

your solve is garbage because you are scum. Its simple as that

[DkKoba]

regardless if you wanna prove you're town you have to first acknowledge there is no reason to go after chaos here because of the incredulity it would take to reasonably call them scum.
You pushed on alch last day phase too.

If anyone but you were scum here - titus would be dead. Simple as that.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: chaosomega
If this flips scum Koba goes next no questions asked

you dont think im scum - you just want me to be scum. Which is a level 0 play

I want you to be scum because there's so much evidence pointing towards you

stay mad

[DkKoba]

"So much evidence" your evidence is you being butthurt.

so no

[DkKoba]

gamma you better fucking sheep me if chaos is limmed here because if after chaos flips town you start going after the people math wants more ill be quite cross

[DkKoba]

occams razor is slapping you in the face, and you refuse to acknowledge how easily you're being used as a tool because youre big angy and voting someome else as a grudge.

Its disgusting and knock it the fuck off.

[DkKoba]

math got caught using obtuse logic to push his agenda of getting chaos limmed and its like "oh no but im mad at koba so i must vote chaos" xD

@titus please please pleaase be on me tonight in the eventuality that chaos is the lim here.

[DkKoba]

dont care ur dayplay is scummy

[DkKoba]

koba, if you're town in scum!math world, you're not dying, titus is

math needs titus dead because she is loud af and has the correct read on me

@gamma, in class atm, will respond properly to that later

I am also reading you as town so not sure where that comes from

its just frustrating when its like so blatant based on dayplay that math is scum bc trying to construe a reason to push a person who mech guiltied scum d2 is like ??

[DkKoba]

dont care ur dayplay is scummy

My day play is never scummy when I am scum though.

im the only one claiming this - i read differently.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: chaosomega
If this flips scum Koba goes next no questions asked

you dont think im scum - you just want me to be scum. Which is a level 0 play

I want you to be scum because there's so much evidence pointing towards you

stay mad

If you're scum this game you owe me a massive apology

good thing im not

[DkKoba]

@Datisi, The only reason I don't want Math is that I have miselimmed him so many times before.

I'm protecting you again tonight btw.

different levels of charity for 2 slots you have a similar history of misreading in the past?

realize your reading method for certain people *doesn't work* and then it becomes clear

[DkKoba]

Math these last few pages feels like scum who is mad at a townsided set up, and then felt like he was in auto lose and is madly trying to widen the elim pool - see his interactions with Dats.

So I think that the team is either Math-Not_Mafia Or Chaos-Koba

Koba is never shot before chaos, so I am down for any of [math, Not_Mafia, chaos]

Titus, I would like to kill chaos, because he was been my top scum read all game x.x

But, if you would prefer one of the others, you can count yourself as a double voter with my vote

ngl this sounds like a reasonable assessment of the game

@datisi

where are you inclined to go in this pool?

it feels fine. those two teams have mostly been on my mind anyway.

my only problem was that prism's play is ??? if that slot is town. maybe i just don't know how to read prism. and i'm looking at the setup luke posted (i've seen that game, forgot about it being a thing), and i'm wondering if i should be going "yeah, 5 power roles, it's theoretically possible" or "ffs but none of them were identical with each other" because both have definitely crossed my mind.

oh wait it says "where", not "are"

uh okay. part of me actually wants to just flip math because i think there's a high chance he's scum, and even if he's town he has this mad tunnel on me that i Do Not Like. but i have this weird maybe-clear maybe-worthless result on him so i can't do that. gun to head i'd go n_m. i'm still a bit scared to commit because we gain more on a green flip from omega than we do on n_m, and if omega is red, i am not in the mood to be feeling the fallback that i'm gonna feel from that. even though "both scumbuddies softing a guilty on the 3rd partner" is not a play i'd ever do but alright. and of course if they're both green it's gonna be a bitch of a lylo.

so, i guess i'd want to vote n_m, but i'm not yet like. mentally ready to deal with the possible green flip there i guess

is it that they aren't in a PT as of last night?
because that absolutely points to last groupscum over traitor.

maf doc

maf neighbor(flipped)

maf neighbor traitor

ez

[DkKoba]

@Datisi, The only reason I don't want Math is that I have miselimmed him so many times before.

I'm protecting you again tonight btw.

if im confirmed clear here by merit of a chaos flip you protect me.

if i die, you should be limmed.

[DkKoba]

nm go take several baths

[DkKoba]

@Datisi, The only reason I don't want Math is that I have miselimmed him so many times before.

I'm protecting you again tonight btw.

if im confirmed clear here by merit of a chaos flip you protect me.

if i die, you should be limmed.

I don't see any way I am protecting you given your wrong pushes and arrogance. I have zero confidence in your abilities and you treated Gamma like shit.

I think people would realize I did the right thing if you died.

what did alch flip again?

[DkKoba]

ego>logic

like i said

[DkKoba]

If you think im pushing gamma still - you're sorely mistaken.
Gamma is proxy pushing *me*
Although datisi is the second best save because he is a fulcrum slot.

[DkKoba]

i'm a what

refer to the meme u made about delusional terminology... i made it up

[DkKoba]

i think im just gonnna go back to no efforting - easier that way.

[DkKoba]

ari chaos titus datisi gamma are all tow
figure it the fuck out from there

I wont explain shit any further.

[DkKoba]

im gay

[DkKoba]

setup spec like this is why scum win in normals like this and why designers make these kinds of setups bc yall will argue about "town power" when its all fucking designer wifom meant to get people to mislim multiple PRs in a row if they play poorly.

[DkKoba]

stop arguing mechs and look at dayplay, this is stupid as shit.
why im not bothering giving a shit this game anymore bc this happens so often
My first mini normal, vpvaltar claimed pt cop upon being guiltied by datisi and i still found them scum by virtue of dayplay but no one would bite bc "pr claim makes sense lole"

so yeah- have fun mislimming into limlo. I wont be around for it likely, and if i am i can carry the game from that point forward.

[DkKoba]

titus, your "reason" for defending math is bc youve mislimmed them before.

frankly my arguments are much better and im gonna instant vote math in limlo if im alive

[DkKoba]

yeah keep voting my townreads have fun with that

[DkKoba]

my best games are when i ignore mech arguments btw
My best scum wins are when i convince people with mech arguments

some people should try seeing that

[DkKoba]

is TA the one that checks for 2+ ppl in pt or any pt even if alone?

[DkKoba]

my setup theory assuming chaos is town is more reasonable, with informed scum

[DkKoba]

2+

So umlaut was basically a ta Enabler in my theorized scum spec based on Chaos info

[DkKoba]

i think if chaos were scum they're trueclaiming informed info and its still the same setup spec in that case, as i see some incentive to bus the effective TA enabler

[DkKoba]

There's no neighborizer

[DkKoba]

groupscum pt counts as a pt for purpose of mod info

[DkKoba]

a) why does scum need neighborizor if the mafia neigbor (umlaut) already has contact
b)TA will not find anymore guilties in this game IMO - you know a person alone in a PT wont be red right?
c)if there is a neighborizer- why does scum use it knowing that there is a high chance of a TA based on the setup "theme"

[DkKoba]

titus how does a TA return a red check, asking for a friend

[DkKoba]

titus how does a TA return a red check, asking for a friend

No town has a PT atm. They would have claimed it. Thus, has a PT is a red check.

*has a PT they can talk in.

and how many people need to be in that PT?

[DkKoba]

i have no interest in arguing either. just please don't be taking any "cannot communicate" as an actual clear until a second scum has flipped and we can from there deduce whether scum was in a pt together or not.

^^^^^^^
mastina may not have the most balanced designs but i think its clear this was supposed to prevent lategame guilties from being possible.

[DkKoba]

regardless I refuse to let setup spec impact my reads other than have it be a "is this reasonably possible when taking into account designer wifom" and the answer from me is resounding yes.

if i actually guessed the scumteam makeup - then thats based

[DkKoba]

im like 95% sure regardless of chaos' alignment he would return green here but whatever it takes for u to townread him correctly

[DkKoba]

would you use the neighborizer ability if you were scum

[DkKoba]

titus, you do understand that a scum neighbourizer, if they exist, they cannot hood a townie because that literally just outs them as scum, right?

tbh if i designed a setup with a scum neighborizor with mod confirmed PT info i would make the neighborizer disloyal just so scum can't fuck it up like that LMFAO

[DkKoba]

so you think scum gave town a mislim... to make themselves more vulnerable to a guilty?



imma just sit back here with my occam's razor theory of scum doc(possible joat with other abilities or informed) + mafia neighbor + traitor neighbor(perhaps with an ability as well)

much easier that way :3

[DkKoba]

even if we entertain a neighborizer -> umlaut went down due to a supposed guilty, which ended up being a *gun* guilty and thus would cause scum to holster any neighborizer ability because thats whats first on your mind based on the setup provided.

[DkKoba]

the way I explained it makes the setup townsided *but not as broken as math tries to make it out to be*

gamma's role is the most out of place out of all claims but by merit of gamma's dayplay they arent' scum so who am I to question what is put into a mastina setup

[DkKoba]

with the setup i proposed (which works alongside chaos informed info) - WHICH I ALREADY SAID - TA is useless post-Umlaut flip

[DkKoba]

i'm not as sold on chaos town anymore because of these findings *because* I see heavy motive to bus umlaut because i believe the trueclaim from chaos, but if they are scum they're groupscum here.

[DkKoba]

but I still think that their claim is too complex for a scumclaim and they helped bury a flipped scum so it is more reasonable to assume they are town.

[DkKoba]

I feel like if we’re looking at this from a “what would be the least overpowered” my role makes a lot of sense given how gated I am

can u just claim what ur gated level is?

[DkKoba]

ok also falls under "complex af"

ok this setup is a meme lol

[DkKoba]

That's just not how the game works?

PR claims get disbelieved all the time

,
scum can fake PR claims.

PRs can get shot without giving results.

I just feel you are making some very strange assumptions about how the game plays out?

these are 2 major points math tries to wave off everytime they're addressed and why he is fairly obviously scum pushing an agenda to mislim PRs here.

[DkKoba]

you were literally in a game with majority PRs but ok math

also you actually solved that game from your POV too - I spectated.

you have no fire this game. this is just deflection deflection deflection.

and the beautiful thing is you can't push on me without pushing on one of the people checking me because im clear if they are both town

[DkKoba]

The odds of me generating a fake clear or getting no clears at all is non zero.

Almost every clear I'd generate, I'd have to rolefish for. I also have to act antitown to get any clears unless I can predict the scumkill. I have to block people

because I suspect they are PRs

or gamble on the nightkill or both. Most successful blockings reduce town power. I am the closest thing to a late game investigator and even then my "results" depend on people claiming and getting a guess to if I blocked them

probably best to not bring this up because reasons bc I caught onto it earlier but yes

[DkKoba]

Math, I don't give a fuck what you think of my slot. There's a decent chance you're scum with Umlaut from his lazy weird distancing with you and you trying to derail his wagon early into D2 with 1283/1294/1296.

[DkKoba]

I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.

What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?

This post only makes me even more sure that you’re scum.

You've been wrong this whole game, why stop now?

ok im sorry but i probably already said this before but chaos is Too Funny To Be Scum

[DkKoba]

If I fullclaim, what are scum adjusting to during the day Math? Me not fullclaiming is allowing scum to make a mistake by not having complete information.

Who do you think my partner is then Math? I'll talk to you about any player you want, give you some more associatives you love.

ok yeah this is town having complex thoughts about a real role they have and wanting to play around it

[DkKoba]

tinfoil quashed

[DkKoba]

If Chaos is town then only one scum has a gun which means max one scum in you and Gamma.
So you or Gamma have to be scum for power balance.

I would start there and find which.

I investigative as with gun already without supposing I'm scum because of being a cop-like
if chaos is town I have to be town because umlaut flipped scum-with-a-gun

gamma guessed my role (VT) and I claimed PR ^^^^^^

[DkKoba]

I'm really feeling a connection with this song rn because of this game
(hint: if I'm feeling a connection to this song, it means BAD THINGS)

i was watching ace attorney videos today and

Spoiler: SoJ ending spoiler

[DkKoba]

i think its cute that im still in scumrange here minus probably the alchemist interactions and i love that for me

also im tipsy so yeet

[DkKoba]

its a closed game no one is clear

its the virtue of dayplay that adds to PRs being clear with their roles, hope that helps

[DkKoba]

I feel like I am at

Yeet Chaos. If red, yeet koba. If green, yeet Math.

OR

Yeet Math. If red, yeet NM. If green yeet chaos

I guess Dat's yeet flow chart works too, bet feels worse to me because of the 3 choices, NM feels the most likely to flip town

at least from my POV like if chaos is scum they're groupscum so shrug

[DkKoba]

Titus is conf town there and because gamma was blocked and says so he’s clear
Two confs try again

Gamma saying he is blocked doesn't Confirm Titus as innocent, she could simply be scum roleblocker in that scenario.

i think titus' tone has been well out of her scumrange here

[DkKoba]

as much as i was "team scum titus" last dayphase - that combined with the lack of kills 2 times in a row is just silly in a scum titus world.

[DkKoba]

a gun claim doesnt mean they're claiming the truth tho LMFAO?

a jailkeeper *could* be bait to kill titus because of the chaos informed info because like I said - dayplay makes titus town.


wow isn't it great to change your theory based on the evidence instead of the other way around :3

[DkKoba]

Titus is conf town there and because gamma was blocked and says so he’s clear
Two confs try again

Gamma saying he is blocked doesn't Confirm Titus as innocent, she could simply be scum roleblocker in that scenario.

i think titus' tone has been well out of her scumrange here

I think Titus is very town. I am mostly rebutting Mathblade's theoretic mechspec that claims the game is unwinnable for scum as claimed so our PRs must be scum or whatever?

I think its just that a good portion of this group has been solved in terms of alignment telling in the lategame and thats prob why it feels like an egregiously OP setup to a scum :3

[DkKoba]

You have given one scenario where there is only one conf in a list a mile wide

That’s no where near probable

I am giving a counter example because you are saying the game is unwinnable and the town is guranteed multiple conf town by D2 which is simply not true.

?

[DkKoba]

If all prs are town, this is a very town sided set up. We get it.

We also understand that there are convoluted ways for the scum to still win AND that mastina has made very town sided set ups before.

The current discussions don't feel like they help us win, and are better suited for yelling at Mastina in the post game.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


the art of the cc still applies too!

[DkKoba]

anyways math, who is scum due to dayplay

[DkKoba]

wrong answer

[DkKoba]

except chaos played his role the way a townie would with that info and softed it fairly early.

the reaction of instant vote and being excited to vote umlaut was clearly due to a townie who was like "YES I GOT THE ONE GUILTY I COULD"

reality does not favor your deflections or bad theories.


you need to case chaos if you think any of us are going to believe you are not just agenda pushing him.

[DkKoba]

I think its just that a good portion of this group has been solved in terms of alignment telling in the lategame and thats prob why it feels like an egregiously OP setup to a scum :3

what are your reads, ignoring mech?

all my reads ignore mech - or rather use mech as a supporting argument in terms of how one utilized their role with a town mindset.

I already claimed this but

datisi - titus - gamma - chaos -> pretty much conftown IMO

ari -> towny, but no holistic reason to townread. but i still think town based on gamestate.

lukewarm -> null as hell lol i cant read this shit but they've risen above scumread based on like how i think i see their thought process working here, i still cant understand this slot

math + NM is the scum team to me IMO based on how they treated eachother and umlaut slot interactions, NM scum through PoE and math through how they are agenda pushing for people who are objectively town while refusing to provide any reasoning as well as lacking the fire that town math has. i think they're in lolcat mode in all honesty beacuse they're traitor and i think limming them first is better on the off chance NM is town and i dont wanna deal with that universe without first getting scum math out of the way.

[DkKoba]

i feel like math is posting so much, yet i don't actually know his thoughts on this game other than "too much pr" and "yeet omega autowin"

i could be dead tired but idk

they're talking in circles because he is backed into a corner its like simple as that - and all the puzzle pieces are on the table.

obviously its mainly assembleable from my POV -> but all you need to do is townread one of me or chaos and it should be able to be solved from there IMHO with the same result.

[DkKoba]

"the game is broken, lets kill the person who helped bury a scum and is generally towny"

[DkKoba]

"the game is broken, lets kill the person who helped bury a scum and is generally towny"

Yes because that’s my scum meta so scum are doing it

no thats how *you* do it, and scum tend to project their own scumtell onto townies to get mislims lmao

[DkKoba]

If all of the prs are real, then that means that the scum team is exactly math+ari, and this has just all been theatre....

That does not feel right.

So, I really think that Chaos is scum here. Maybe Not_Mafia. But one of them has to be, right?

ok but ignoring mechs - why is chaos scum?

[DkKoba]

VC 3.FINAL

Alchemist21 (6):

Aristeia 2101, Titus 2484, Datisi 2486, MathBlade 2597, Gamma Emerald 2636, Lukewarm 2647

there it is.

Titus (1):

Alchemist21 2108

Lukewarm (1):

ChaosOmega 2003

Aristeia (1):

DkKoba 2419

Not Voting:

Not_Mafia

With 10 alive it takes 6 to destroy.

whos scum on the Alch wagon?

[DkKoba]

and before MB tries to again try to deflect by claiming their "scum skill"

no sorry, nobody is perfect as scum and they get caught in awkward situations eventually.

I have been myself. It happens. Townsided setups can exacerbate it too.

The fact is until I was hardpushing my reads MB was way under the radar and prob would have been if I hadn't been *insistent* about it.

[DkKoba]

fam thats just chaos' playstyle.

yall just can't read some people by default and ya dont wanna admit it when someone comes in and says you gotta look at everything as a whole

here's an exercise: look for reasons why chaos is town with a bias assuming they are conftown.


i think you will find a change of heart.

[DkKoba]

in essence- the play is way too complex for scum. scum only look at the next step in most cases.

it takes a leap of faith for chaos to do what they are doing.

i'll consider them in limlo *only* if math were to flip scum but im definitely not seeing them as scum here at all.