Mini Normal 2249 | The Fish in the Sea | Game Over

[Azaariah]

VOTE: osuka

nice name

[Azaariah]

whoever votes a scum player first gets to choose my avatar post game
so get scum hunting

[Azaariah]

everyone is so loud in this game!!

[Azaariah]

how confident are you in those reads?

If they say anything like "Pretty - Super confident" I'm gonna be suspicious... 5 green when I hadn't even talked? bruh... cause I'm in the green pool. making 6 green. purple is like the phase before red? so basically 3 red, all else town. hahaha 13 people, I'm assuming 3 maf. APRIL HAS SOLVED THE GAME FOR US!!! WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR FOLKS???

i think andante is scum. this post is just such a strange post and not in a good way. what was the motivation behind posting this post? i actually dont understand.
this is followed by a lot of very exaggerated posts and topped off by some faulty logic. unlike the latter two, the faulty logic is towny but i still think there's a good chance andante is scum.

VOTE: Andante

i think t3 is town. im not entirely sure why there even is a wagon there right now.

[Azaariah]

What about that is even bad? if you read the context it literally isn't

oh i read the context. no one asked you a question. april posted reads. free spirit asked how confident april was in those reads and you replied this:

how confident are you in those reads?

If they say anything like "Pretty - Super confident" I'm gonna be suspicious... 5 green when I hadn't even talked? bruh... cause I'm in the green pool. making 6 green. purple is like the phase before red? so basically 3 red, all else town. hahaha 13 people, I'm assuming 3 maf. APRIL HAS SOLVED THE GAME FOR US!!! WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR FOLKS???

what was the reason to shade april here when the question was clearly not directed at you? whether or not april is scum, i dont particularly care. but this reply does not sit well with me because it feels like you have a grudge with april or know something that i dont.

> what was the motivation behind posting this post?
You act like it wasn't a response to what April was saying

what? you quoted free spirit's post and want to tell me that you were replying to april's post? context and evidence-wise, this is factually incorrect.

> this is followed by a lot of very exaggerated posts and topped off by some faulty logic
like what?

generally when people go out of their way to blow up their post count with posts that just say hi [insert name]!!!!!!!!!!!!, people would think the emotion is a little exaggerated. im not interested in pointing out every case but i'd say most people would agree with me on this.

Considering you're actually voting me, and didn't look at the context, I don't think there's good intentions behind it.

nice try.

for anyone who doesn't want to go back and find posts, this is the post from april that andante is claiming to reply to:

Gamma Emerald
geraintm
Dwlee99
Almost50
Osuka

Something_Smart

Azaariah
Andante
Holiday

T3

Free Spirit
Hella Jeff

No ranking between tiers. Don't worry, analysis is coming sometime. I'll likely be keeping it casual, checking in once, maybe twice a day.

and this is the question that andante quoted that was very clearly directed at april:

how confident are you in those reads?

[Azaariah]

let me narrate this story really quick.

april gives reads. free spirit asks april how confident they are in said reads.
andante immediately replies that if april is confident, that is scummy.

i find this reply extremely bothering. it makes no sense why anyone would make a reply like this out of nowhere. april and andante had not interacted a single time since the game started.

when i see this post, it feels extremely out of the blue. what that makes me think is that these people have grudges against each other or perhaps ... they're scum together .....

[Azaariah]

i dont think that is the only possibility but this interaction is truly very bothering to me.

[Azaariah]

when i see this post, it feels extremely out of the blue.

Meh, I don't really see what's wrong with it. It's not like you need to have interacted with someone in order to have a read on them.

so you think that if i posted a reads list and someone asked me a specific question about it, some newly replaced in person saying "it'd be really scummy if Azaariah replies [this]" isn't strange?

this situation is clearly exaggerated from the current but it's a similar idea.

[Azaariah]

i've thought about this for a pretty long amount of time and it still strikes me as extremely strange. the reason im not clear on the motivation is because it could be purely to shade or it could be tmi. either way i think the Andante is still scum.

[Azaariah]

Something_Smart, you are correct that answering a question not directed at yourself is not scummy on it's own. but when there is a question that is very clearly directed at one specific person, it is already unlikely that you'll reply. and if you do reply, it is highly likely because of previous negative interaction with said person (you want to say what they'd say and say why it's wrong before they can get to it). andante has not interacted with april in the slightest here so answering this question does not make sense.

[Azaariah]

Andante
Holiday

Right with Holiday you say? This game is like a fun holiday for me!! Only, there's some bad fish here trying to ruin it, we kick them out, then we party!!

ok i was incorrect since there was an interaction. but i dont really count this either way.

[Azaariah]

aside from that, andante's posts jump from defensive and shady to bright and happy every couple posts. i would say that's a pretty good indicator of scum struggling to keep their towny facade up

[Azaariah]

what is andante doing

playing the game. what do you what from me?

I KNOW yall missed me when the game started but have no fear!!! doggo is here!!!

their iso is pretty long but im not going to dig through this all. posts like these two come right after each other.

andante hasn't actually done anything this game besides shade and pocket players. it may be that their personality is bright and cheery but people like that tend to be a little more trusting or extremely paranoid depending on which side they lean towards. this is highly likely to just be scum play.

i've posted a forth of andante's post count yet i can say with certainty that i've said more on the game than andante has.

[Azaariah]

As of right now i'm TL-ing: Azaariah, Geraintm, Gamma, Jeff, Osuka.

vote andante. lets see some pressure

[Azaariah]

im not going to go read andante's past games to see if any of this is true but what i know is that i think this behavior comes from scum and it is likely to flip scum. if you want to do my homework that im not doing and quote some things over, that would be fine and i will read it.

Something_Smart, answering makes sense in a couple scenarios. picture this.

person 1: readslist
person 2: how confident are you in the read on person 3?
person 3: of course person 1 is going to say they hard scum read me. they've been tunneling me since day 1, we need to find our last vote elsewhere.

but i do understand what you mean since it doesn't make too much sense to answer that way as either alignment. in situations like this, it is just an opinion of which is more likely and i would say it is more likely to come from scum.

[Azaariah]

it's basically just a case of is it more likely that town andante shades april for no reason (mind you this was before the argument of "april is randomly changing their reads" that andante is currently using came up)
or is it more likely that it was a bad attempt at shade or just straight up tmi from scum andante.

there is a reason that my first though was the tmi and that's because a lot of unreasonable things that seem to not come from either alignment can be explained because of tmi existing.

[Azaariah]

i can imagine this being scum or town andante just having a stroke a little bit too early

i can understand that some people get excited more easily and are more emotional but when there's strokes on every page, that's when i start having an issue with believing it.

[Azaariah]

i decided that work didn't matter and read through many Andante games. unfortunately i dont have an exact conclusion at this point in time. all i know is that all of the games that i thought they were town (this was around 4-5 games), i was correct on all of them. i scum read one of their town games, had one null read, and have not seen a scum game yet.

i basically know what im looking for here so im just waiting for andante to post now.

the tmi part would just be being super self conscious of scum buddies. that is a form of tmi in my opinion. i agree that even if andante is scum, april is not necessarily. it was just my first thought on this.

[Azaariah]

Do you have other reads?

i do but im a bit worried about them. i currently tr you, osuka, and t3 and im not sure if that's just because of activity or the fact that all of these people have, more or less, agreed with my concerns around andante.

on the sr side, it's pretty empty besides andante and maybe april.

[Azaariah]

aside from that, andante's posts jump from defensive and shady to bright and happy every couple posts. i would say that's a pretty good indicator of scum struggling to keep their towny facade up

i also think this is just andante being andante. imagine a kid that already can't sit still in class. now, imagine that kid that can't sit still in class, but is hopped up on like three red bulls and a big starbucks coffee with all the sugar you can get in it

i found this post very towny. osuka is agreeing that andante's post is weird and that's really my entire point.
as long as people think it's weird, they have an easy path to realizing that it comes from scum more often than it comes from town because town really doesn't care enough to reply to a question directed at someone else. sometimes we're even too lazy to read posts that don't have our name in it. i just dont feel like its towny

[Azaariah]

like the whole thing just fucking smells. in fairness, i do agree that andante went off the rails way too quickly even for andante, but that's probably close enough to what i've seen that i can imagine this being scum or town andante just having a stroke a little bit too early

Paulas’s points about andante probably come from town. I don’t see scum hard defending such a weird slot.

you think this is hard defending? i absolutely think it could come from a buddy and need to hear more.

I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion, but I understand the push itself, because I was pinged by it initially, but then eventually moved Andante up. One of the reasons I let Andante run.

april why did you move andante up? they've done nothing productive since.

[Azaariah]

hella jeff, is andante scum? why or why not?

[Azaariah]

after a little rereading, i actually think andante scum clears april. andante shades april so much that i don't think april could possibly be a buddy. that doesn't make sense.

i'm also having some paranoia on my andante read. it's not a fun feeling but i guess im just waiting for andante to come back and talk.

[Azaariah]

i feel like t3 is town but im not sure how to explain why

[Azaariah]

but i can't tie it to a common scum motivation. to muddy the waters? no, doing it to a more active player would have a much stronger effect. this is in the same realm as picking a fight with someone, which can have a variety of effects to town health (i'm talking out of my ass here) like hasty townreads and polarization of ideas


In post 413, Azaariah wrote:
after a little rereading, i actually think andante scum clears april. andante shades april so much that i don't think april could possibly be a buddy. that doesn't make sense.

why does andante's scumteam want that? reminder that andante came pretty late into the game. i can think of a few better targets. gamma, T3 and maybe even norwee come to mind because they're generally more active and prone to those fights(?) which help achieve the scum motivations i talked about above
nobody's chiming in saying "april's pretty town." an andante scumflip would give every single person here a cleared slot to work with
and i just don't really see it

i dont think there's a common scum motivation here. i'm not sure what exactly is happening but i just see that post coming from scum more often than town. i agree that it's a little strange regardless of alignment but i think it's less strange coming from scum, especially coming from a newer player. andante hasn't had a single scum game on site yet. it makes sense as a noob scum mistake. since you already think im town, i'll just have you know that your post here is the most swayed i've felt since i posted my case. it's only fair that i get to pocket you back right?

im not sure andante's scum team wants that. i dont think this is something their team told them to do. i think they just sort of decided to do it and by the time this post was posted, nothing could really be done about it. what i find interesting is that no one else had an issue with it when it was a very very strange post. i can understand town missing it but i feel like if andante were town, scum definitely would've picked at it before i got here three entire years later. my activity was not the best because i couldn't find anything that really pinged me any way and there was plenty of time for scum to pick at it. instead they all stayed quiet. scum are actively looking for things to push and i'm doubtful that all three did not pick up on it. you could say that it was because andante was pretty widely townread and scum were scared to push there. i would somewhat agree with that statement but it's also very clear that andante is a newer player. no matter how townread they are on page ten, they are still mislim bait. it's clear andante isn't one of the prodigy newer players who are just insanely good at the game so they are absolutely mislim bait but there was not a single SR there until i came along.

andante's scum flip doesn't clear april. it just makes me think that april is very likely town.

[Azaariah]

the way this is phrased is just *chefs kiss* i don't even know why it townpings me so strongly

I kinda see what you're talking about. I think it's +town if Andante is town but +scum if Andante is scum.

VOTE: something_smart

i bus my buddy like this on day 1 when they are in a perfectly amazing position. okay ...
i'll just park my vote here until andante gets back

[Azaariah]

t3 can you please use player's usernames

[Azaariah]

i bus my buddy like this on day 1 when they are in a perfectly amazing position. okay ...

Why wouldn't you? Do you expect people to actually follow you and kill Andante?

the fact that my SR has persisted for over 10 pages shows dedication. regardless of if it will go through, it is the strongest push anyone in this game has had so far. and you seem to think that andante won't actually go through today when i am putting them at a very high risk by doing this. whether or not they will depends, but this risk isn't worth it especially when the partner is a newer player who might just scum it up under pressure.

wouldn't this make more sense coming from scum on town also? if that were the case, i have two buddy's words and influence on the thread. getting a townie eliminated, especially a newer player, should be a piece of cake.

what i gain from hard pushing a buddy who may actually die on day 1 instead of just letting t3 go through is not what i need to win the game as scum. all i get is suspicion on my buddy, who is now at higher risk of elimination and a likely investigative target. if i lead the wagon through, i just killed my buddy, who was in a good position on day 1 for no reason. does it get me towncred? yes. but i would rather win in elo with two scum than 1. your logic is pretty messed up.

[Azaariah]

...Why?

This line feels very distancey: "i think andante is scum. this post is just such a strange post and not in a good way. what was the motivation behind posting this post? i actually dont understand." like they're trying to play up how weird/confusing it is.

you yourself already admitted that it was weird though. i dont see how that plays it up given it IS a weird situation and when you think about it, it is difficult to tell what the motivation is.

[Azaariah]

weird/confusing =/= distancing also. not how it works.

[Azaariah]

the number of long sentences i've wrote are far more and plentiful. if you really want to do this, address all of my posts on the case.

[Azaariah]

UNVOTE: something_smart

i just did a little read through of something_smart's last scum game. it's a very different' feel from here so they're probably town even though i dont agree with most everything they say.

[Azaariah]

the number of long sentences i've wrote are far more and plentiful. if you really want to do this, address all of my posts on the case.

There is no way that is healthy for the game.

I am pattern-matching based on what I've seen in the past. I can't think of specific examples, but I can think of a situation where I advised a scum partner not to make a post that did the exact thing that I'm talking about. It does happen.

That said, I wasn't aware when I made the comment that your Andante vote was your first substantial post of the game. I think most people wouldn't be distancing quite THAT early, so I retract it.

perfect timing. are you going to vote someone now?

[Azaariah]

how do you feel about norwegianboy and osuka? my initial thought was that both were town. im not as certain anymore.

[Azaariah]

my reads are:

town
april
something_smart
hella jeff
holiday
t3

norwegianboy/osuka
geraintm
almost50

scum
dwlee
andante

but right now i have this desire to vote t3 for this post:

...Why?

This line feels very distancey: "i think andante is scum. this post is just such a strange post and not in a good way. what was the motivation behind posting this post? i actually dont understand." like they're trying to play up how weird/confusing it is.

This is actually valid huh

i dont think something_smart's post is scummy though the idea is scummy because i dont think scum something_smart posts that post exactly like that. i do not wish to elaborate as to not mess with my own mind but anyone is free to check out their last scum game which i just briefly looked over. it looks very different from their play here. i can't believe that t3 who scum reads andante, actually thinks i could be scum with them. but maybe it's this exact scummy play style that has them getting so many votes. im not sure where i stand anymore.

[Azaariah]

aza out.

[Azaariah]

UNVOTE: something_smart

i just did a little read through of something_smart's last scum game. it's a very different' feel from here so they're probably town even though i dont agree with most everything they say.

you know that people try and change their play style right? thats a thing?

something_smart is still town here.

[Azaariah]

Aza has written up the thoughts I have about Andante pretty well, at this point: the enthusiasm and energy is there but the actual content/logic being applied falls flat

well, to be honest, i dont totally believe some of the points i've said mostly because those are just attempts to explain the feeling that i felt when i read that one post of andante's. im pretty certain it comes from scum but am trying to find other more understandable ways to express this scum read because although only this part caught my attention, they must've slipped up elsewhere as well. since no one really agrees with the read that that one post is a scum claim, i've been looking other places and trying to prove it through different means.

[Azaariah]

i feel underlined is important because i think there's as many scum that will whiteknight as those who'll make sure that limbait slots don't have any room to towntell, for example
writing this feels like a huge jab at osuka but i'm in the same boat as norwee here wrt him. i'm picking out certain things that could be done to andante's posting for Evil Scum Gain and it happens to fall in that category

so you think that scum white knight a slot that is widely townread mislim bait instead of setting it up today in preparation for a mislim in a couple days?

[Azaariah]

VOTE: Andante

holiday, join me. we'll leave andante at e-2. no one else should vote until andante gets back to the thread. we'll go from there.

[Azaariah]

Actually, newer players tend to townread their partners more often than experienced players that will throw them under the bus for less than a penny.

i agree with this and think april is pretty much completely cleared if andante flips scum.

[Azaariah]

i'm also pretty worried about t3 at the moment. oh well. its e-2 and we're both ready to unvote if needed so it should be alright.

i would say andante is new given they havent even had a scum game yet.

[Azaariah]

oh by the way if this wasn't clear, holiday just skyrocketed to the top of my TRs

[Azaariah]

are you implying that you're pushing andante for the towncred and simultaneously claiming that you're being successful at it? getting a newer player eliminated isn't necessarily a piece of cake _especially_ if the rest of the lobby is experienced (which, on average, is the case).

NOBODY gives up a scumbuddy this early and this fast just because they're a newer player. that's a ridiculous assumption and is probably the dumbest thing anyone's said in the thread so far

this post you're quoting is a reply to something_smart saying that if andante is scum, i am more likely to be scum. my post is saying that this thought process is dumb and you clearly didn't read. you totally missed what the post was saying and just repeated the stance i had on the situation. if something doesn't make sense, it's also nicer to ask instead of be rude.

[Azaariah]

the number of long sentences i've wrote are far more and plentiful. if you really want to do this, address all of my posts on the case.

fuck off with the lamist please

VOTE: azaariah

how is this lamist?

[Azaariah]

the more i read that post of osukas, the more it doesn't make sense but it looks so scummy that i feel like it could just be town. osuka is basically saying that i openly said in thread that i am scum and pushing my scum buddy which makes no actual sense no matter how you think about it. no matter what my alignment is, it doesn't make sense. it feels like osuka isn't processing anything he himself says. i feel like erratic play like this does typically come from town though so im alright with a TR there.

[Azaariah]

andante has been online twice since everything (my cases) unfolded and the conversation is already rapidly shifting away in only a day. unless andante comes in and explains, i am not budging an inch off this wagon. if this flips town, i accept the blame and im sorry but this is just far too scummy to me at this point. i can't shake the feeling that andante is just scum and scum are trying to change the topic. i also think the wagon is mostly pure.

[Azaariah]

If we don't fade Hella Jeff today, I'm down to deal with the Azaar/Andante 1v1 today, and even have them claim. I think we should consolidate by page 40, and go to Day 2.

i see that andante has some recent posts. if they don't change my mind, i am up for this.

[Azaariah]

"Let's push the one not here"

unfortunately for you, when i first posted my case against you, you were not at all inactive. you even replied to my case shortly after. i chose to hash out the case afterwards which would've happened regardless of if you were here. this isn't about me pushing you because you're inactive. that's clearly not the case because i started this push on page 8 when you were active.

[Azaariah]

like, even for me, there's a point I'll just step back go, ok, maybe this read is wrong

so you just randomly change your mind on reads over time? with zero posts from the other person? this isn't really a valid point given you weren't here throughout this. im not going to randomly change my mind on you without having any content from you. that's not how it works.

[Azaariah]

basically ignore reading anyone else here

i have a reads list.

[Azaariah]

Also, I have more posts than a lot of people here, so I'm not quite sure, why I MUST return for anything to happen

because you have zero substantial posts and no one ever said that except me. you must return for me to assess my read on you.

[Azaariah]

Why is it bad I answer a question for someone else with sarcasm?

people giving reads early in the game isn't exactly a strange thing. it makes no sense to be replying "with sarcasm"

[Azaariah]

ok bottom of page 26. so far i am not satisfied with andantes posts. i know what im looking for after reading through around 6 of their games and i know for sure that if i have a townread, it is correct. the opposite is not guaranteed which is why im hesitant but at the moment, i definitely still feel that my read is right. whether or not the point i clung onto was a bad point is hard to say but if it catches scum, it catches scum. there's not always a correct way to solve and this is the way that im doing it. saying that the reason itself is bad is just not cool at this point. ive explained it many times. rather than do that, town casing andante is actually productive for people that townread them.

[Azaariah]

"Let's push the one not here"

unfortunately for you, when i first posted my case against you, you were not at all inactive. you even replied to my case shortly after. i chose to hash out the case afterwards which would've happened regardless of if you were here. this isn't about me pushing you because you're inactive. that's clearly not the case because i started this push on page 8 when you were active.

Excuse me, it 100% turned into "lets vote Andante for not posting" do I need to quote it?

ok so out of my 54 posts which are almost all entirely on you, you're going to yell about how one of them says that you've checked the site twice and did not vote. that is not the meat of my case (and you are misrepping) and if you're town, you'd benefit a ton, and im not kidding when i say a TON, from addressing the meaty posts. because i will launch an entire meta case to townread you if you convince me that you are town. i am aware that my reads are not perfect but i think you are scum. convincing me you are not involves directly addressing my posts calling you scum. regardless of if you believe they are stupid, i believe in them and i am going to be the person who gets the most pressure tomorrow if you flip today and flip town. so if you are town, answer to my posts and i will reassess.

[Azaariah]

so you just randomly change your mind on reads over time?

What are you trying to get at?? I was referring to, if all I have done is tunnel someone, I'll take a step back and think about if I'm tunneling to tunnel and win an argument, or if I actually think that person is scummy

its not tunneling if the person isn't there....
it's just discussing the read with others

[Azaariah]

ok everyone chill. page 27 is painful to read. please guys.
i am absolutely torn right now. i feel like andante's emotions are genuine but i will feel horrible if i let scum slip by me like that. i'm going to take a break and think. can everyone leave andante alone for a little bit? i am really stressed over all of this. i feel like this is my fault. please everyone just shut your laptop and take some deep breaths. let this thread breathe.

it's painful to see these emotions because i genuinely feel the anger and almost, betrayal seep through my desktop but i am also so weak to ate. i need some time.

[Azaariah]

everyone stop posting. close this tab. take a break. please

[Azaariah]

PLEASE

[Azaariah]

i actually have to go right now but i thought it was getting tense again so posted that. i'll be back tomorrow. i have a ton of things of do tonight.

[Azaariah]

i actually have to go right now but i thought it was getting tense again so posted that. i'll be back tomorrow. i have a ton of things of do tonight.

I am slightly concerned by aza... Like, I'm here, Aza's entire game has been dedicated to going "Andante scum!!" Asked everyone to be quiet while they caught up, then has to leave again. Like, nothing wrong with leaving, but, I'm here now? did you want me? hello? darkness my old friend.... Also usually when people say they're rereading, they'll say SOMETHING about what they read, like, give some sort of takeaway from it. kinda suspicious if I do say so, now. who would the partners possibly be is the real question

it was pretty clear there was a misunderstanding. no reason to shade that. yeah i did want you but i'm very busy right now. do you happen to think i'd be afraid of you and that's why im avoiding the thread or what is your theory here because no theory here makes any sense except the straight up fact that i am busy. usually when people are reading, they'll take some time and if they didn't finish reading, they will not say anything. i haven't read up from 67 i believe? to the last time i posted. i read a couple pages after i posted but that is the extent to which i've read.

Ok, but here's the issue on that, I don't even strongly believe Aza maf? like, I'm looking at this giant case on me, super early on. is this normal for aza? Like ughhh hang on, need to go meta read Aza for 1 hour 16 minutes, just to see, like, I sensed some genuine towniness like "

oh... Andante is back, maybe they are town

" idk!! this leaving thing, and saying nothing about anything read is odd to me, not gonna lie

i did not say that. please dont make it seem like my posts were contentless.

[Azaariah]

im not caught up at this point but what i have to say is that although i do think it's a possibly that andante is town now (unlike previously), i still believe that is the optimal elimination today. there's a couple reasons i have for this but i do think a clear cut andante flip brings clarity to a lot of questions. i think it helps shut down future speculation that is useless noise and i dont think andante staying in the game helps town even if they do happen to be town here (based on this gamestate and other factors). my last point is that andante has posted posts saying "it's ok if i die today if it's good for town" so that just means the slot is vt or scum. i dont see the harm in taking a gamble on a high information flip that cant be a town pr and might even be scum.

to anyone who scum reads andante and myself, that doesn't make sense. all of my posts have been calling andante scum and had i been the one interacting with andante when they just got back, there would be even more posts calling them scum. creating an environment that feels, even if it is not entirely, a 1v1 between myself and a scum buddy is possibly the worst situation to put myself in on day 1 as scum. and lets just say you still believe we're scum together, ok since you believe that so firmly, it doesn't matter which scum dies first right? help me bus my buddy.

to anyone who scum reads me and not andante. andante's green flip brings me a lot of pressure tomorrow and as scum, that's not optimal for day 2. andante's green flip would attract investigative my way tonight as well as put me under a lot of pressure tomorrow. i could be slightly shading andante or simply hopping on t3 here instead. and let's say t3 is my scum buddy. the first person i look to as a "LHF" slot to tunnel, is still not andante.

i am absolutely willing to 1v1 andante here because i believe andante is a valuable flip that brings clarity to the game. i am fully willing to take responsibility and be subject to pages and pages of questioning tomorrow if this flips town. i think an andante flip today is the optimal choice.

from a gamestate perspective, i think andante elim benefits town in every scenario there could possibly be. to anyone that trusts that i am town, let me lead this wagon. even if it is wrong, it is lead by town and finding scum on the wagon is an easier job if you believe it is lead by town. i am not offering myself up as the elim tomorrow if andante flips town but i am willing to be on the cutting board. im willing to be the person that people blame. i know this may not help but i do think that an andante flip is very valuable here especially over someone like t3. what do we gain from a flip like that?

but what do we gain from an andante flip? well we know that if they are scum, a number of people like t3, holiday, april, and myself are somewhat cleared.
if they are town, we reanalyze the wagon and everyone's reasons for joining. we look at the resistance as well and try to find where scum ended up positioning themselves.
we gain more from an andante flip than any other flip today.

[Azaariah]

aza out.

[Azaariah]

because I don't think whoever said az's content was all revolving around andante was wrong

is that supposed to be scummy? and i actually do interact with a lot of people during this process while trying to convince them. i also have an entire readslist. im quite sure you haven't even given a reads list yet.

Spoiler:

VOTE: murdercat

Eliminate all cats!!!

I have changed my avatar to represent our team! Go doggos!!

whaaatttt you must be mistaken!!! I am no enemy....

I love Chara!!!!

I'd say we trust lizards for now... cats are the number 1 enemy

oh wait, is it cause I refuse to fall under your rule?

andante i'm a town dolphin this time what about you

I'm a town doggo!!! WOOF WOOF

Anya I want questions!!!

@andante

can you explain:

why you joined the dog alliance
why you called yourself andante
why you're a wolf
why you voted for nero cain
why you're lurking and not answering my questions

YEESSS

why you joined the dog alliance- WOOF WOOF WOOF BARK WOOF
why you called yourself andante - BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK
why you're a wolf- AWOOOOOOOOOO
why you voted for nero cain- WOOF BARK BARK WOOF WOOF
why you're lurking and not answering my questions- WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF

@cakez u don't have to worry too much about me hyperposting. I will be alot less active starting tomorrow till weekend. This is day off. I also have interview/final exam and normal working hours this week so yeah...wont be spamming like my usual stuff. I think right now everyone will be posting alot and speed will die down in 24 hours after excitement of game start gets over with.

@chara good. all going according to my plan

im really enjoying all of andante posts and don''t know how much is due to avatar lol

I'm glad you love my posts!!

non doggos rise up

i will be the chameleon shepherd to lead us to greatness and wipe these dogs off the face of this farm

Woah there... we can't have a rebellion happening!!!

VOTE: Anya

im really enjoying all of andante posts and don''t know how much is due to avatar lol

i liked Andante's very first post where i was complimented and the avatar was different, so absolutely no biases here.

You should also be in the high doggo ranks!!

A bear has appeared...

but I like the "death to all cats"

Pooky always looking at the bright side of life! Spoken like a true doggo!!! I think he's actually one of us!

all dogs must be killed to death

such a shame that we outnumber you

andante has a stroke by page 2 but has noticeabely less of a stroke and does not recover from said stroke

i originally did scum read the excitement but now i do not. however, there is one specific thing that i am looking for because every time that showed up strong, i was totally certain andante was town and the opening post reflected that every time. even in the couple posts you quoted here, that thing that i am mentioning is present.

1. Almost50 - town but depends on meta
2. Azaariah - poe
3. Andante - poe
4. geraintm - not limming today
5. Dwlee99 - poe
6. Holiday - lean town
7. osuka - poe
8. T3
9. Free Spirit NorwegianBoyEE - town
10. Hella Jeff - town
11. Gamma Emerald - poe
12. April Ludgate - town
13. Something_Smart - lean town

i dont like this. the poe is really gross. it really looks like you are just placing everyone who took part in the 1v1 between andante and i and put them in poe because we are being discussed right now and most likely to come under pressure. the town reads are also just not good. you townread everyone who basically hasn't done anything (relative to the current "1v1") or have a decent amount of town reads. thats pretty lazy. you're just calling everyone who is partaking in this specific discussion poe which honestly is true, but i really hate that it's written out like this. it's very unsettling to see.

but I kinda want to go in norwee/holiday here, something tells me going in there is good

Seems like an odd choice based on who you've been ranting about these last pages.

Seems like a great choice to me, the 2 of you are acting the exact same, and ganging up against me, one yall could be town, but there is no freaking way you both are.

if there is scum, its norwegian boy. i am confident that holiday is town. but either way this argument just isn't valid. it might be true but it's still not valid because two people pushing you does not even mean one is scum. thats just not true.

Hm, i feel like your posts are pretty townie lately T3.
I reluctantly add you to townread.

Not sure i necessarily agree with everything you say, but i think it comes from a town mindset now.

what? i want to vote t3 over these posts. and i am okay with compromising on t3 today and i'll reread and try to reevaluate andante over the night if that cannot happen today. chances are that my mind doesn't change but it's hard to say.

[Azaariah]

this is not a poe KEKW

It sure looks like one to me...

i disagree with this. that is not a poe.

Why is it bad I answer a question for someone else with sarcasm?

people giving reads early in the game isn't exactly a strange thing. it makes no sense to be replying "with sarcasm"

People TRing someone who has been scummy is a strange thing, and the question was definitely worth sarcasm, like someone asking april how confident, yeah I felt like answering, what you gonna do about it? hate? cool.

well scummy or not is subjective.

Also, SS, notice how you only talk after I go "I really don't think SS is town" mhm.. suspicious, I think you know aza and I are tvt, you're staying out of it, letting us nail the other one's coffin closed only to get the opposing one tomorrow or something, cause T3 put us both in poe. Like, I think I'm on to something

I may not agree with aza at all, and aza may hate my guts, but that's not my focus. Norwee/Holiday were just being annoying earlier, I think I'm actually standing by SS and T3 as both flipping scum.

this page of andante's posts actually looks pretty good now that i'm reading it. i read a couple of this posts earlier but i definitely feel some towny mindset seeping from these posts. andante's so offended at the idea that they are scum that i think it probably does come from town. i haven't seen my tell yet but im actually ok with retracting my last long post and unvoting for now. UNVOTE:

[Azaariah]

I’m already voting azaariah for that exact reason

I'll wait for Aza to return, there's not exactly a rush, but like, they're busy, ok cool, I understand, and once they're back, I wanna have a conversation, cause ultimately whoever we lim today, I want their reads, thoughts on stuff, anything to help tomorrow.

ok. i want t3 at the moment. i disagree with the something_smart read. i could consider april now that i think you're town. aside from that, i guess i do want to take a closer look at gamma emerald/geraint/almost50/slots that have been lurking. gamma emerald hasn't been lurking but their posts also haven't been good.

[Azaariah]

i dont like this. the poe is really gross. it really looks like you are just placing everyone who took part in the 1v1 between andante and i and put them in poe because we are being discussed right now and most likely to come under pressure. the town reads are also just not good.

you townread everyone who basically hasn't done anything (relative to the current "1v1") or have a decent amount of town reads.

thats pretty lazy.

ok Azaariah said this, not T3, just yoinked it from his post and formatting 2hard
firstly, where do i fall in bolded?
my townreads are the polar opposite and could be generalized as just as lazy. is this something you've missed or is there a reason why you haven't called it out?

I dont find an issue with one lazy read but a full set? i do have an issue with that.

[Azaariah]

my head is all over the place right now. im going to go back to just reading until i can feel more connected with the game.

[Azaariah]

if you think im town, what is this shade for?? you've been consistently calling me town why constantly shading me. i dont understand what you are doing at this point.

[Azaariah]

while

[Azaariah]

im having some login issues but it sounded like no shade and i also never understood why holiday and a50 were higher than me in your reads. you made so many posts calling me town and included reasons yet im not higher than holiday and a50 who you havent made any significant posts on?? to be honest i also think holiday is the towniest but still

[Azaariah]

i've been reading but have had a very empty head for quite some time now. i don't know what to make of my wagon or the game after thinking andante was definitely scum for such a long time. i originally thought that andante and april were scum together. i kept saying that andante scum cleared april because i really wanted to see people's reactions to that and to see if i could get scum to bus andante in return for a hard townread on april who seems like a strong player (everyone seems to know them for some reason?). obviously, i can't prove that but you can really see the difference in passion between that read which i repeated in two really thin posts as compared to my andante read. i was really deep in that tunnel and now that i dont think it's correct, i don't know what to think about the game. im afraid to commit to any reads because my brain knows andante isn't scum but im still clinging on to that thought.

i keep wanting to just reply to osuka's long post the way he's been replying to my posts out of frustration but i know it doesn't help. there is no case on me and i don't know what to do about that. i don't know what im doing and this is kind of where i am. i guess this will sound like im lost but im not. im just processing and waiting.

[Azaariah]

this was actually the reason for my hard townread on holiday. holiday directly said that them being scum together made a ton of sense, which it did. i wanted to agree but i still felt that andante was scum with april at the time and felt i needed scum's buses to get the wagon through so i didn't. but if that helps bring clarity to that read, there's that.

[Azaariah]

i was hoping that scum would think andante was beyond saving and just decide to bus after seeing a post like that. i guess that might sound a bit stupid but i sort of imagine that if andante were scum, they'd be active and panicking in the scum pt. i think in that situation, scum are naturally inclined to bus and a little push topples the whole tower. obviously, this is wrong and i don't believe that is the case at all anymore but that was my thought process at the time.

[Azaariah]

andante was under a decent amount of pressure at one point in time. i think a little panicking from scum andante would've made scum at least think about bussing. at that time, i think it's fair to say i was becoming the most widely townread person just based off those pages of the game. in that situation, i saw myself as having a little bit more power than i normally would and wanted to see if i could get a scum flip with it.

[Azaariah]

this page of andante's posts actually looks pretty good now that i'm reading it. i read a couple of this posts earlier but i definitely feel some towny mindset seeping from these posts. andante's so offended at the idea that they are scum that i think it probably does come from town. i haven't seen my tell yet but im actually ok with retracting my last long post and unvoting for now. UNVOTE:

[Azaariah]

i guess that might sound a bit stupid but i sort of imagine that if andante were scum, they'd be active and panicking in the scum pt.

Meta read? Or you just think you command so much force with a page 8 read that scum would feel unable to shake it?

Given how early your read came out, I wouldn't be taking it that seriously as Andante's partner, or even as Andante herself. If you were someone she knew and/or respected, that might be different.

i do not know andante. however this was around page 16 and i think it was genuinely possible under certain circumstances that andante gets quickhammered there. this did not happen but i think it was a real possibility that would've been even more real if andante were actually scum.

[Azaariah]

VOTE: t3

im alright with this. i think hella jeff is town still despite some previous concerns there. andante is off the table. they're just town.

[Azaariah]

VOTE: t3

im alright with this. i think hella jeff is town still despite some previous concerns there. andante is off the table. they're just town.

Literally voting the top wagon with a bs explanation just to save yourself

haha

Spoiler:

VOTE: monke

VOTE: monke

Please do not refer to people by avatar in voting.

VOTE: whatever the Pokemon in your avatar is
understood

i've thought about this for a pretty long amount of time and it still strikes me as extremely strange. the reason im not clear on the motivation is because it could be purely to shade or it could be tmi. either way i think the Andante is still scum.

what is andante doing

playing the game. what do you what from me?

I KNOW yall missed me when the game started but have no fear!!! doggo is here!!!

their iso is pretty long but im not going to dig through this all. posts like these two come right after each other.

andante hasn't actually done anything this game besides shade and pocket players. it may be that their personality is bright and cheery but people like that tend to be a little more trusting or extremely paranoid depending on which side they lean towards. this is highly likely to just be scum play.

i've posted a forth of andante's post count yet i can say with certainty that i've said more on the game than andante has.

AGREED.
VOTE: andante

VOTE: azar

[Azaariah]

unfortunately, you have been the top wagon for the entire first half of the game so any vote you make falls under your own words "a bs explanation just to save yourself". doesn't look to me like you explained anything in any of them.

you voted me for "shading" you when all i did was say that your poe was gross, which is my own opinion that i am entitled to having regardless of if you explain things, which you didn't either way

You’re shading me without inquiring further even though I’ve explained most of my reads.
Come on.
VOTE: azar[/b]

[Azaariah]

in fact it looks to me like you saw andante was coming under pressure and immediately hopped on with an explanation that wasn't even yours. now that it's flipped on me, hypocritical posts are just spilling out.

[Azaariah]

and for the record, i am the top wagon here. not you. now we are tied because i voted you.

[Azaariah]

I think if Azaariah & T3 each tried to both town!case oneself and scum!case the other that might help us all (including the both of them). Too much work, I know, but it's worth it.

why should i? my entire iso is a town case on its own. plus i have more or less already done this. no one did anything with those posts. i have no interest in doing it again.

[Azaariah]

either way, i dont scum read t3. i am **okay** with it.

[Azaariah]

well maybe i do scum read t3. but i feel that way with just about everyone considering me as a possibility today. it's annoying that there are no actual reasons to be pushing me.
geraint says "one naughty point for you for jumping from one failed wagon to another" which is ??? given my aggressive pushes, you really think i would've just given up or you think im afraid to be 1v1ing? the aggressive pushes just dont come from scum but even if they did, they mean i am playing the risky game. then why would i hold back? andante is still a very real mislim option and i had built up a lot on them. even more, i decide to post a huge post about why andante needs to die even as town right before a 180 shift to a townread and a completely retracted push? make that make sense.

osuka says "fuck this shit your shit doesn't make fucking sense" no logic, no actual progression. just cuss words and rudeness. i dont know what im even supposed to say. the posts are long but they end up saying nothing at the end of the day except "azar is so scummy. they are so scummy. they dont make sense. they are scum" there's nothing else.

t3 says "you're not reading my explanations and shading my two sentence long reads list" calling t3's poe bad is not scummy. that was the whole reason and prior to this, there was no read on me. the last thing close to a read was t3 agreeing with everything i said on andante and voting andante while they were at e-2 or something similar. if t3 is town, it doesn't make sense for me to be scum so the whole push is just ??? if i were scum, i definitely could've gotten them quick hammered. is that risky play? yes but if im scum, isn't that exactly what i've been doing anyways?

the whole wagon on me is really just one sentence reasonings that don't honestly make that much logical sense. despite my andante push being wrong, every point was explained and hashed out whereas here the longest explanations are osukas and they dont really say anything.

[Azaariah]

holiday is town and im never voting there without a claimed guilty.

[Azaariah]

t3 was at e-2 before i launched a case on andante. it never makes sense that i am scum and t3 is town.

[Azaariah]

and for the record, i am the top wagon here. not you. now we are tied because i voted you.

I meant that you were voting the top wagon other than yourself.

almost50 is actually tied with you and that has much more interest as of right now than you do. your wagon is a dead wagon with a couple straggler supporters. compared to a fresh wagon, your wagon is pretty lame.

[Azaariah]

you keep on saying "Geraint is voting me because i moved wagons" is not correct and has annoyed me enough to explain to you. and i can't work out if you are deliberately focussing on one part so you can try and refute it, or if you just weren't aware of all the times i've noted things about you that have caught my interest.

ok so you scum read me because i
1) started a wagon and the first actual push in this game
2) because i said that i didn't believe in some parts of my case, which i later went on and explained in a separate post anyways
3) because i said i scum read t3

does that sound better to you? i honestly dont think any of these reasons are any better and you didn't explain any of your naughty points either. i took your naughty points as jokes for the majority of the game so i didn't see them as actual point but whatever, if you say so i guess. they still don't check out but ok have it your way.

[Azaariah]

i've reread some things and i think that geraint is probably town though i simply don't agree with them. if this play is normal for them, which many people has said that, he does seem very relaxed here which is a somewhat reliable towntell.

almost50 i have always felt was town but i don't object to this wagon if it will be a problem to leave them later on in the game. it seems to me like t3 is a better slot to elim simply because we never leave a slot like that later in the game. it's better to get a flip and move on. i realize i said something similar about andante but that's actually different because i think andante has been very obvious town since getting back to the thread.

im feeling bad about the holiday townread now but i honestly cannot tell if that's just because april has me head over heels for them.

i think im willing to be certain on a norwegianboy townread now. he does a lot of things that just don't feel like scum. the tone is just so towny in a way that i cant explain but im certain is town. this is similar to the feeling i had around holiday but i tend to feel that way about players that think similar things to me but that would happen regardless of their alignment. but norwegian boy does not agree with me on things so i think im confident in saying he is town because of this feeling.

dwlee's progression on me isn't there. i think it looks pretty bad for scum to just suddenly switch a read they've had for the first 50 pages of a game when the person is going under pressure because it looks really bad post flip so i'd say that is town though i disapprove of the content itself.

im still happy with my something_smart townread. i highly doubt this is wrong just because they don't feel like scum.

april scares me and im not sure why. i feel like they are a player that could easily pocket me and that's unsettling to me. im not willing to give a townread though i really want to.

everyone else i just dont really have a read on them. i see their posts but nothing really stands out and makes me think anything about their alignment

[Azaariah]

basically this is where I'm at:
definitely Town:
norwegianboy
something_smart
andante

probably town:
geraintm
almost50
dwlee

hopefully town:
april

very conflicted:
holiday

somewhere floating in space:
everyone else

[Azaariah]

ok i feel bad putting hella jeff in that floating in space category but so many people keep saying we need to look at him that i am genuinely paranoid and wondering if this is just one of my blind spots in this game. i dont know what to do about that so im just leaving it be and staying away.

[Azaariah]

ok i feel bad putting hella jeff in that floating in space category but so many people keep saying we need to look at him that i am genuinely paranoid and wondering if this is just one of my blind spots in this game. i dont know what to do about that so im just leaving it be and staying away.

push me hard! i spew!

but i dont scum read you and if i actually start tunneling, that's bad especially if you are town.

[Azaariah]

ok i feel bad putting hella jeff in that floating in space category but so many people keep saying we need to look at him that i am genuinely paranoid and wondering if this is just one of my blind spots in this game. i dont know what to do about that so im just leaving it be and staying away.

I kinda feel like it’s weird that I’m there but my own reads are kinda spacey

i dont know how to read you. one side of me thinks that scum wouldn't want to be on my wagon but the other side thinks that a little extra pressure makes my elim today more possible. i cant choose so you're just floating in outer space for now.

[Azaariah]

im specifically talking about your unvote if that wasn't clear

[Azaariah]

its more that i find april towny and your backtrack on your townread on me that i felt was really towny from you, you took back.

[Azaariah]

the read itself isn't persuasive. in fact i actually dont like the arguments but i feel like it probably comes from town which gives it more credibility to me.

[Azaariah]

im feeling bad about the holiday townread now but i honestly cannot tell if that's just because april has me head over heels for them.

april scares me and im not sure why. i feel like they are a player that could easily pocket me and that's unsettling to me. im not willing to give a townread though i really want to.

From my perspective, you've flipped a read on me without explaining, and saying you're feeling bad, because you're head over heels for a player you're scared of and don't want to townread?

yep that sums it up well! it's part of the reason im paranoid of april actually - the fact that they are making me question my townread on you. your unvote also came at an unfortunate time and now things are just working out like this.

[Azaariah]

if april didn't scum read you, i wouldn't question it most likely. whether or not that is entirely true, i cannot be sure but i do feel that is true so it does have to do with them.

[Azaariah]

im feeling bad about the holiday townread now but i honestly cannot tell if that's just because april has me head over heels for them.

april scares me and im not sure why. i feel like they are a player that could easily pocket me and that's unsettling to me. im not willing to give a townread though i really want to.

From my perspective, you've flipped a read on me without explaining, and saying you're feeling bad, because you're head over heels for a player you're scared of and don't want to townread?

yep that sums it up well! it's part of the reason im paranoid of april actually - the fact that they are making me question my townread on you. your unvote also came at an unfortunate time and now things are just working out like this.

You do realize how little sense this makes from my perspective, right?

Like, in less words what this feels like to me is: "You do not townread me anymore, so now I am going to question you."

i townread people who are voting me and people who have stated they are okay voting me. your point is null.

[Azaariah]

no i dont like aprils scum read's reasons. the idea of it is what i like.

you're top scum? where in my reads list does it say that???

[Azaariah]

Like I'm exasperated that I even have to contend with a read like this because it's formatted in a way that I can't, because there's nothing to it. It's wispy nothingness. It's meant to be nothingness.

think what you want. this isn't even a hard read either way. im simply saying that i now have paranoia on you but you're acting like i just moved you to the confscum category. i dont understand.

[Azaariah]

mass omgus?

yeah

[Azaariah]

i dislike aprils read but that doesn't mean i cant agree with the conclusion or consider it. and either way this is exactly what i've felt about the reads on me for the majority of the game so welcome to the world of shitty reasons. be grateful people are cussing you out for no reason in every post.

[Azaariah]

*aren't

[Azaariah]

well fuck my reads lists now i think you're town again. i hate myself sometimes. why do i just write my unfiltered thoughts in games like this where i always get scum read for doing exactly that? i dont know at this point.

[Azaariah]

Sorry if I am taking my frustration out on you but the sort of things that I can't rebuttal or dialogue on are the things that make this game the most unpleasant for me to post in, and I just felt like your backtrack on me was being tied to nothingness.

I would rather be directly attacked because that's /substantial/ and I can actually reply to it. Genuinely.

i shouldn't be posting this but my honest thoughts are just why are you even complaining? this has happened to so many other people in this game. there is essentially no pressure on you and you're in an okay position. and that frustrates me because it makes me feel like a bad person but im annoyed

[Azaariah]

you must've done that a couple times then cuz i dont see any content that's better than "piss poor"

[Azaariah]

ok whatever im also annoyed, holiday. i do townread you again if that makes you happy but im pretty annoyed at the gamestate and blaming me for things didn't make me happier. i'm sorry if that was hurtful but im not the person to complain to about something like that because i myself am quite pissed about it on my own.

[Azaariah]

you can thank osuka for that

[Azaariah]

sorry should i have responded that it was a fucking piss poor post like you've done to all of my posts?

[Azaariah]

i think your attitude towards me is dogshit. you aren't like this with anyone else and im tired of dealing with your shit.

[Azaariah]

i dont care what excuse you have. i did not do anything to deserve your attitude. im here to play a game and you're here to insult me.

[Azaariah]

when your "elaborations" are 90% just calling my post fucking stupid, they aren't elaborations and im not replying to bullshit like that.

[Azaariah]

you're full of shit, i haven't attacked you personally.

[Azaariah]

stupid is sure better than toxic

[Azaariah]

Also this is a reall tiring argument between you two.
Stop using cusding language for one.

im not sure what else to do about it. like im tired of just taking this shit. he's being such a rude ass to me this whole game and i've calmly replied to everything and im tired of them pretending like they are actually playing the game when they haven't done anything productive in fifty pages. all they've done is be an asshole to me because "my posts are piles of shit" and im "lowering people's intelligence levels by posting" or some other bullshit like that. that doesn't justify anything and they are nothing but unpleasant. they act like they have actually reasoned with me when they haven't done that a single time. all they know is how to insult. that's it.

[Azaariah]

what if we just burn the entire osuka slot instead?
VOTE: osuka

[Azaariah]

what if we just burn the entire osuka slot instead?
VOTE: osuka

what if you reply intelligently to what i’ve said? i can keep doing this all day, you’ll have to do a lot worse than that to get under my skin

what if you grew some eq cells?

[Azaariah]

vig should just vig osuka tonight. or vig me. i dont care i dont wish to be in the nearby vicinity of a toxic player.

[Azaariah]

i can't believe i spent that long convincing myself i was right just to back out at the last moment.