Mini Normal 2249 | The Fish in the Sea | Game Over

[Tracer.Bullet]

[Tracer.Bullet]

VOTE: April Ludgate

[Tracer.Bullet]

How did we lose Gamma and end up with this.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Having dueling wagons on April/Holiday is useful even if Holiday gets flipped

Consolidation is good for Data.

[Tracer.Bullet]

People need to take a stance and pick a side

this game is already too long in D1.

If Dwlee only claims miller as town that's a trust tell.

[Tracer.Bullet]

I find long day 1s to be a pain in the ass

[Tracer.Bullet]

the closer people get to elimination, the less bullshit there is in the thread and the more meaningful shit will happen.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Do you have an opinion on Holiday's angry diatribe?

[Tracer.Bullet]

I agree, if day goes longer than hour it's staling.

You talking like you was here whole d1 lol

They only call me in on the hard cases

[Tracer.Bullet]

If Dwlee only claims miller as town that's a trust tell.

It gets weird when you get into small sample size. I don't think Dwlee ever said they would never claim miller as scum so this isn't relevant.

I think it's a trivially stupid read to say ___ only claims miller when ____ is town.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Do you have an opinion on Holiday's angry diatribe?

Uncalm, unneeded and wholly unrecommended is what it was.

Agreed but is it coming from town or scum?

[Tracer.Bullet]

Dwlee give me your best reason for Holiday-scum in one sentence.

go

[Tracer.Bullet]

Do you think Holiday thought they were hammered? I knew they weren't and I think they knew as well...

you going to explain why you think Holiday knew they were still alive or just keep making statements with nothing backing them?

[Tracer.Bullet]

I assume holiday isn't new, and I've seen people react like that as scum to being "hammered" (off the top of my head, Titus in June)

I've seen Lebron James play basketball in person before.

Doesn't mean I think every player who walks onto the court has the potential to be the King.

I need specifics.

What part of Holiday's reaction do you think is fake and why.

[Tracer.Bullet]

If you have a general policy to never believe this type of "post-hammer" play then just say that.

[Tracer.Bullet]

If you have a general policy to never believe this type of "post-hammer" play then just say that.

Correct. I only begin to believe it if they're ACTUALLY hammered and even on that criteria it isn't 100%

ok so why do you use fake hammers to reaction test if this is your general policy?

[Tracer.Bullet]

Dwlee your posts are so… basic.

I think my brain is completely fried. I am extremely close to Thanksgiving break from uni but I have a prelim tomorrow on the last day before break and yea. It's been rough. I spent all weekend cycling between grading papers, doing homework for multiple classes, and studying for my exam. Just got out of 4 hours of grading an exam for the class I TA for even though I have my own exam tomorrow to study for hahaha hahsbfb. I did get to relax for two hours at a concert yesterday but

Anyway, yea. Probably not getting the top tier dwlee content you aspire for until my break starts at the earliest

Why are you rushing the elim if you don't even have the time to play.

How are you so sure Holiday flips scum here if you don't actually have time to play?

[Tracer.Bullet]

It's one thing to claim you are brain-fried cuz RL

it's another thing to claim this but yet also be very certain of this elimination for very "meh" reasons.

[Tracer.Bullet]

How are you so sure Holiday flips scum here if you don't actually have time to play?

You're also way overplaying my confidence with this

Holiday should be the vote today

Someone end holiday's misery lol

Please just kill Holiday

KILL HOLIDAY

Okay but I scumread holiday

[Tracer.Bullet]

You can always vote for April if you just want to end the day

[Tracer.Bullet]

So you do care about killing Holiday and not just that the day ends.

If you want to hard shove just own it.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Your scumread is based on generalities that are meaningless

[Tracer.Bullet]

If you geniunely scumread Holiday and want Holiday dead, and Holiday most likely dies today since she is e-1, why are you so scared to put your name on the wagon.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Abdicating responsibility for a wagon you are hard shoving is pretty weak move.

You'd look better tomm if you went all in instead of hedging.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Am I not voting holiday rn wtf

Yea you are voting for Holiday

And you're campaigning to get Holiday Elimmed

And you are handwaving their reaction as "fake" without an actual thought process behind it other than "policy"

But when I ask you about your confidence level you're pretty damn shy about saying you have conviction.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Meaningless Deflection is a scum tell

I'm not talking about your vote I'm talking about your conviction level being mismatched with how much you are campaigning for the elim

[Tracer.Bullet]

You claim Holiday is a scumread

You want Holiday dead

You tell people to hammer Holiday

You handwave her reaction and AtE and say it's faked without explaining what you find fake.

That's fine.

But you need CONVICTION to actually do it.

When challenged you pretend you don't actually have conviction on this elimination.

[Tracer.Bullet]

You want me to be super uber confident about a day one read without any flips jeez

This reminds me of something one sec

Most people aren't confident.

That's why they don't hard push/campaign for certain elims.

It takes a certain level of conviction to go at her as hard as you are.

Doesn't make sense to me for you to do this if you're not sure she's scum.

[Tracer.Bullet]

You want me to be super uber confident about a day one read without any flips jeez

This reminds me of something one sec

There's two explanations for hard-shoves D1:


Conviction in the result

and Agenda.

The fact you won't show conviction leads me to think you have an Agenda.

[Tracer.Bullet]

this is regrider's iso from that game:

viewtopic.php?t=87863&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

you're literally comparing an apple to a tree

[Tracer.Bullet]

Is this some kind of joke where you cherry pick shit from your past where you were right and expect me to do no DD and just nod and believe you.

[Tracer.Bullet]

the team is probably just April/Dlee/T3

[Tracer.Bullet]

Is this some kind of joke where you cherry pick shit from your past where you were right and expect me to do no DD and just nod and believe you.

I mean the situation is the same...

I'm like, yea, person scummy, let's just kill em

Then someone comes arguing with me for multiple pages about how I'm scum or something cause I should ~elaborate~ and ~explain~ more in depth

And then I just go "kill person" and if they flip red it'll REALLY be the same

Ok so why you pretending you don't have conviction if you think Holiday will REALLY flip scum

[Tracer.Bullet]

I already find your explanation of "it's my policy never to believe fakehammers" to be very hard to believe.


You're lucky I can't use site search right now to see what your fakehammer history is.

[Tracer.Bullet]

How are you so sure Holiday flips scum here if you don't actually have time to play?

You're also way overplaying my confidence with this

[Tracer.Bullet]

Is this some kind of joke where you cherry pick shit from your past where you were right and expect me to do no DD and just nod and believe you.

I mean the situation is the same...

I'm like, yea, person scummy, let's just kill em

Then someone comes arguing with me for multiple pages about how I'm scum or something cause I should ~elaborate~ and ~explain~ more in depth

And then I just go "kill person" and if they flip red it'll REALLY be the same

Ok so why you pretending you don't have conviction if you think Holiday will REALLY flip scum

Where did I say that??

How are you so sure Holiday flips scum here if you don't actually have time to play?

You're also way overplaying my confidence with this

This isn't me saying I "REALLY" thing holiday will flip scum soooo???

I'm not here to have a 10 page back and forth where you try to play semantics with me.

You either have conviction Holiday flips scum or you don't have conviction Holiday flips scum.

Pick one and stop hedging and dodging.

[Tracer.Bullet]

You should run for office

You're pretty good at avoiding giving a straight answer.

[Tracer.Bullet]

I feel your plan is to just flood the thread with so many twisty replies/dodges that nobody actually reads what went on in our conversation because it's too long and this day is too long and nobody has time for this much bullshit.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Do you have conviction Holiday flips scum or not

[Tracer.Bullet]

It's a fucking yes or no question btw I don't need 6 lines talking about your feelings

[Tracer.Bullet]

Have you actually played with Alice?

She loves the attention regardless of alignment

[Tracer.Bullet]

cause I can just come back at you and go "you should vote A50"

You should vote Holiday because we have had multiple claims this day phase, and Holiday was the final claim, and a Vanilla claim, meaning it's a low risk misfade based on scum wanting PR's faded, not Vanilla. Yes, it is a win for scum to get through a day phase, but they do not need to get through 1 day phase, they need to be able to survive until the end.

Ending the day phase before any further PR claims can happen is optimal.

Why is Holiday scummy? They were semi active during portions of the game, but they were also being the type of player that wasn't really saying anything unpopular or unfavorable, and when people tried to think of any actual things Holiday had said, nobody was able to remember, which naturally means they were off of people's radars. I also have reason to town read almost every other person for some reason or another, and Holiday only has a couple things that were like "yeah, i liked that post" so on top of the needing to stop further claims this day phase, and move on, Holiday is the optimal flip, especially with the actions that have been taken afterwards. Holiday is a plant in the ground, and we need to stake it down, and use this as a moment to push the game forward, but to do so, the slot needs to flip. Then we can progress forward rather than in a circle.

this post smells like complete horseshit

[Tracer.Bullet]

I don't think April is uninformed or gives a shit what Holiday actually flips as.

Confidence is manufactured and sounds hollow and fake.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Okay, so then do you actually like April's scumread on me?

From what I understand of it, it's literally that they like what I post and I'm a bit more background-y, so I'm top scum. And people dislike that read/pressure around me, so it's a good sign (even though... I think most people townread or lean me to some degree? Not everyone, but more than not do.)

Maybe I'm more exasperated at her for throwing out something that I physically just throw my hands up at because it doesn't compute. To me it's either honestly, an ego-driven read to catch a "deepwolf" that doesn't exist or scum (which... I did say I had bad feelings about April before they doubled down on me being their top scumread). Both are very shitty situations.

you just in a pool now, not necessarily a scum read.

Let's just kill the Vanilla claim and go to Day 2 without anyone else claiming.

this is always the best path of action, even if Holiday ends up being town.

I am starting to think that Holiday is Vanilla town, but i still say go for it, tbh.

If they're scum, cool, we got a scum. If they're town, eh, at least they're vanilla, and cool, we got tons to analyze, and we're in Day 2.

Scum have to push me here because I become essentially conf town after Holiday flips.

At the end of the day, they're pushing me because I'm pushing Holiday, and i think that's obvious, I am pushing Holiday because I think they are scum.

this progression is a joke

[Tracer.Bullet]

Mafia doesh't call person town and then continue to push them. Well. They can do that. Anyone can do anything, but now you just paranoids.

Why not?

[Tracer.Bullet]

the goal of the mafia is to kill townies.

you get to push to death a townie.

when you push enough townies to death you win the game.

[Tracer.Bullet]

6 - 6 just waiting for Jeff to make the decision

[Tracer.Bullet]

Why she is good for mafia with pushes and reads.

Someone pushing townies to die is always pro-mafia

[Tracer.Bullet]

If Holiday is town i voting Gera next.

If holiday flips town

then you push gera and gera flips town

what you do on day 3?

[Tracer.Bullet]

it's one thing to push someone you think is mafia

it's another thing to push someone that you think is town

[Tracer.Bullet]

it's one thing to push someone you think is mafia

it's another thing to push someone that you think is town

Mafia can find 9000 reasonings to vote someone and call them mafia, and be clean after.

Your mind is stuck in a weird place where you can't comprehend that a mafia player would decide to call a townie and townie and then hard shove them anyway.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Nope. I was town.

@Titus. Let's talk about that hammer. You knew it was fake, right?

No. I wasn't thinking. If I was, I see it was fake. I was in court at the time though.

Welp I was town. Punish Andres for the wolfy pop in.

Welp I was town. Punish Andres for the wolfy pop in.

You’ve had votes on you all day but I’m the one that needs to be punished? That seems pretty silly.

All you did was come in and hammer.

That also was not hammer.

Yes it was. According to the last VC, I was at L minus 2. You and Andres voted.

Titus has been executed, she was...

Spoiler:

Mafia babysitter enabler

Welcome ! You are a

Mafia Babysitter Enabler

You are a member of the mafia, the other members are *list of mafia*

You may find the mafia PT here, you may also each night choose to perform the factional kill

upon your death, all babysitter roles will stop working

You win if the Mafia has full control of the game or nothing can stop that from happening, you may find the game thread here

Night 4 starts now and ends in (expired on 2021-07-20 18:38:43)

One example implies nothing about overall rate incidence

[Tracer.Bullet]

Meta would be if Dwlee did Site Meta analysis for how many times scum react this way to a fake hammer.

This is just cherry picking one example.

[Tracer.Bullet]

Meta would be if Dwlee did Site Meta analysis for how many times scum react this way to a fake hammer.

This is just cherry picking one example.

You're also probably experienced so that you believe this much in reactions to fake hammers is wild to me

I'm reading the reaction of the player being hammered.

I do not believe fake hammer reactions as a policy - I analyze them on a case by case basis.

[Tracer.Bullet]

I don't think April is uninformed or gives a shit what Holiday actually flips as.

Confidence is manufactured and sounds hollow and fake.

None of this is AI for him

No town him would have a lot more fake confidence because he actually thinks he's the best scum hunter on the site.

[Tracer.Bullet]

He'd be in here telling us how murdering Town!Holiday is actually just the first move of a genius 200 step 6d chess strategy where he hunts down all the baddies and solves climate change.

[Tracer.Bullet]

April/Dwlee/A50. Kill in there.

short

simple

direct

nothing performative

nothing lamisty

feels like she has an urgency to get the message out there b4 thread lock

[Tracer.Bullet]

Also how scum is T3. Holy shit.

Nah t3 town

ok who were you talking about when you said I was at best 1/3 then

[Tracer.Bullet]

Just got out of a game where a scum made the exact same thing, saying "kill player1/player2" before thread lock on an actual hammer

you can have anecdotes for everything.

if I said something like Dwlee is scum because I just got out of a game where Dwlee was scum, do you think that's a good argument?

[Tracer.Bullet]

I would like the day to end on someone I scumread. This is a completely novel sentiment that I myself invented

Dwlee is probably just town for the way he’s talking to tracer. I feel like scum would be more filtered and careful, in a sense.

Sounds like you have no respect for big D's scum game

[Tracer.Bullet]

Just got out of a game where a scum made the exact same thing, saying "kill player1/player2" before thread lock on an actual hammer

you can have anecdotes for everything.

if I said something like Dwlee is scum because I just got out of a game where Dwlee was scum, do you think that's a good argument?

That's not the argument. I'm saying that at best, what you're pointing to is NAI behavior, so you townreading them for it is bad. If I can show that scum perform the behavior you're talking about as being townie with frequency, then it's not actually townie behavior!

Pointing out one example doesn't make something NAI.


If I say something like "most swans are white"

you can't counter that with "oh look here's a picture of a black swan"

and pretend that there's as many black swans as white swans in the entire world.

[Tracer.Bullet]

why do i have hammer for both candidates, what the hell?

we can switch spots if that would make you feel more comfortable

[Tracer.Bullet]

However, as you have seen before Norwegian, scum do not win when townMe is faded day 1.

so we should fade you today.

If you're town, scum will lose.

if you're scum, it's good for us to get closer to winning.

[Tracer.Bullet]

You can go back and look at me claiming not to necessarily believe in t3’s claim a couple times.

VOTE: Holiday

You just did this when T3 claimed it.

Yep.

I want to challenge t3 tomorrow, but honestly,

Also, why would you go after them tommorow instead of today?

Because they can be town still.

Do you believe their protective claim?

Like 15%, but I’m not impatient enough to think I need to deal with it now on Day 1.

you've reviewed games before, right? what makes those two protective roles unable to coexist? they look like they serve different enough functions

that's why i didnt challenge him. i actively wanted t3 to go a little further in the game. there would be more action taken to read, and i could challenge him later if he thinks it was scum.

i think we're both limited protectives, so it's possible they coexist, and i didnt want to directly counterclaim, because i dont believe more claims were necessary, still stand by that.

this progression on whether he believes T3 is a protective is a joke.

[Tracer.Bullet]

I think it would take quite a lot to get me to vote you on D1.

Certainly after you've claimed a PR, bullshit sensors going off though they may be, I wouldn't ever be touching you.

if you were scum, i feel like more precautions would have been going off to at least possibly have others going after me.

At the end of the day, I feel just by looking at the reasons for each wagon, it's obvious the wagon on me is emotions based because people didn't like me pushing Holiday.

It benefits scum to go me if Holiday is town as well, because Holiday claimed VT.

He is already preparing to push the people on his wagon post a Holiday-TownFlip

[Tracer.Bullet]

well, when im the first scum dead, scum wins too. it was kinda a funny thing that kept happening the past few times i died first as scum.

So regardless of your alignment you should self vote.

If you are town, town you dying d1 means town win

If you are scum, scum you dying d1 means scum win.

go for it champ

[Tracer.Bullet]

just vote April she will flip scum

[Tracer.Bullet]

But if Jeff is voting Holiday then i guess it doesn’t matter too much in the end anyways. So just cross fingers and hope it could be scum?

Just vote April and give Jeff a choice

otherwise Jeff can have the excuse that he had no choice but to vote for Holiday since he couldn't hammer April.

[Tracer.Bullet]

In Anime Upick, I was actively fighting with my scum partner, and had DEB as my other partner

Translation: The Scum team was of TWO members.

Well in the post game Flavor Leaf said he didn't have any teammates

[Tracer.Bullet]

Dwlee99

NorwegianBoyEE

Something_Smart

Almost50
Enchant

Hella Jeff

T3

geraintm
osuka

Holiday
Andante
Tracer.Bullet

no order between tiers, i also dont think that the bottom 3 is the exact team, but there's scum in the pool.

Voting for April

Voting for Holiday

What an amazing coincidence.

Every player who is voting For April is being scumread

Every player who is helping April kill Holiday is being townread.

clap clap clap

SUCH A REAL READ LIST GUYS

VERY REAL

[Tracer.Bullet]

so he's not sure if Holiday is scum

but he's sure every scum player is voting for april over holiday

and not a single scum player is helping him kill town holiday

yup

amazing reads