Mini Normal 2258 | Bunnies [Postgame]
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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- Posts: 10219
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
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"I also don’t understand why instead of trying to work with Mathblade, you’re resorting to practically the same sorts of attacks Aristeia was engaged in earlier today. Don’t you need Mathblade to win the game, based on the POE you’ve put out there? So why are you behaving as if sidelining Mathblade is sensible? This doesn’t make sense from a Town perspective. Or at least from the perspective of a Town player playing purely to their win condition."
This line is actually designed AtE. Let me explain why.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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"I also don’t understand why instead of trying to work with Mathblade, you’re resorting to practically the same sorts of attacks Aristeia was engaged in earlier today. Don’t you need Mathblade to win the game, based on the POE you’ve put out there? So why are you behaving as if sidelining Mathblade is sensible? This doesn’t make sense from a Town perspective. Or at least from the perspective of a Town player playing purely to their win condition."
The first order intention of this line is to shift the blame onto House - as in "it's your fault" it's not mathblade's fault he's not listening to you. He's creating a blame shift where it's House's fault for attacking Mathblade and also saying that sidelining you = bad because you are important to his win-con.
Secondly look at this analysis from a 2nd order perspective - if Andres thinks it doesn't make sense for House!town to play this way, does it make sense for House!scum to do this? He knows this type of attack is not going to change Mathblade's mind - so why would House!scum engage in this behavior?
One explanation would be that House!scum is trying to get Mathblade to double down on his scum read of Ari and push Ari through - but he doesn't make this conclusion.
The other explanation would be that House!scum thinks that if Mathblade is attacked sufficiently and hard enough - he will break and change his mind - which is something that is unlikely from your personality profile and your play history - something that House should be aware of.
As for why House!town would engage in utterly fruitless attacks on you - the simple explanation is simply that he feels enraged and is not behaving rationally - something that he has a habit of doing when he is not listened to as town - it's irrational but it fits his personality profile to a T and it's possibly not something he can actually control.
It feels somewhat strange for Andres to bend the needle through these explanations and come up with his own take where House!unknown is using a method of talking to you that is not useful and thus it's House's fault? He's not calling House scum, he's saying that House's play is not credible because it doesn't fit the play of a perfect townie who is playing rationally - but it doesn't really look at the fact that if House is town, he is not really a rational player to begin with.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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- Posts: 10219
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Andres has already stated that Mathblade/IV = mech conftown and Datisi is not teamed with me and he wants to vote me and he's waiting for Datisi to finish up his work before voting me. There is no world where House is not scum from his stated worldview.In post 4969, MathBlade wrote:This feels like you’re saying Andres is scum for asking a sorting question to House? Iirc House was in Andres’s PoE.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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I'm saying the way it is phrased is designed to pocket you specifically.In post 4969, MathBlade wrote:This feels like you’re saying Andres is scum for asking a sorting question to House? Iirc House was in Andres’s PoE.
It doesn't think critically about House's alignment in the way he would if House is unsorted in his POE.
Also according to his statements he's already sorted House as scum with me so it makes even less sense for him to make that statement to House.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Can you just real-claim now?In post 4971, House wrote:
Apathy.In post 4889, Aristeia wrote:House if you're not a VT why were you ok with trying to get Andres to vote me and kill me earlier? I don't really understand that line of play.
I want this fucking game over because Math has made it extremely unfun.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
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- Posts: 10219
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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yea but I see it more likely that House!town would fakeclaim out of desperation/fustration than House!scum would make up a fakeclaim because why would he do that when the default elim is me who's town?In post 4977, MathBlade wrote:
It’s pretty obvious House is full of shitIn post 4976, Aristeia wrote:I don't know why I'm still playing anymore atp
You me and Datisi broke down why.
If House is confirmable with a night action then he can say what night action.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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You ended day 2 before 24 hours had passed and then you blamed me for skitter being flashelimmed before I could even talk to her/sort her.In post 4981, MathBlade wrote:I put in a ton of effort D2 and theorize what happened
You then said "she deserved to die" for her play when all she did was doubt your innocence.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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You also called him scum and were literally pushing me to push him so I'm sorry what are you blaming me for here?In post 4981, MathBlade wrote:Then D3 vote the person you call scum-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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I don't like being closeminded. I don't like it when someone says "scum must be in _____".In post 4988, MathBlade wrote:
Wow short memoryIn post 4985, Aristeia wrote:
You ended day 2 before 24 hours had passed and then you blamed me for skitter being flashelimmed before I could even talk to her/sort her.In post 4981, MathBlade wrote:I put in a ton of effort D2 and theorize what happened
You then said "she deserved to die" for her play when all she did was doubt your innocence.
That’s about scum being on the Lap wagon
Which I said immediately on replace in
And to which you insulted my play similar to how you opened D4
You wanted to sort on the wagon.
I wanted to sort off the wagon.
If you let me actually sort skitter and I decide she's town I would've changed my mind and maybe end up sorting on the wagon.
I didn't even get a chance to have a back and forth with her.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Mathblade if I thought this about you I would not even bother talking to you because it would be utterly pointless.In post 4989, MathBlade wrote:Nothing math ever does is good
His play is always bad
Math is bad
Math sucks-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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why do you want no yeet?In post 4997, Datisi wrote:VOTE: no-yeet
i pray that house is a vig and shoots me so i can call him even more of a gamethrower than he is now.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Aristeia SheSurvivor
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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because I'm confused about so many things.In post 5006, House wrote:
Why are you asking, when you were the one that introduced the idea in the first place?In post 5002, Aristeia wrote:
why do you want no yeet?In post 4997, Datisi wrote:VOTE: no-yeet
i pray that house is a vig and shoots me so i can call him even more of a gamethrower than he is now.
when i introduced it I didn't know you would claim PR.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
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- Posts: 10219
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
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- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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I didn't call you scum? Why are you being so defensive?In post 5074, Datisi wrote:i wasn't willing to locktown someone based on the nightkill 7 minutes into lylo? must be scum, you got me-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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That's me being exasperated with you.In post 5076, Datisi wrote:In post 5070, Aristeia wrote:do you really think me!scum ever kills town!house?In post 5071, Aristeia wrote:I'm sorry that guy was willing to walk through fire for me.
Why would I ever shoot him at night?
well excuse me for drawing conclusions from these posts, because they do not look very charitable.In post 5073, Aristeia wrote:I mean you sounded like you were still keeping the door open on scum!me-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
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- Posts: 10219
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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its essentially a one shot novice vig + weak fruit vendor + EN Gunsmith versus Scum with Roleblocker if IV is telling the truth.
Means there's oppurtunity for fake guilty, oppurtunity for vig to not get his shot off. That should almost never pass review. All town power is completely and utterly nerfed-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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If IV doesn't claim on Day 3 he probably gets eliminated on Day 3. Keeping silent is not an option for him.In post 5090, MathBlade wrote:It’s at this point I find it unlikely IV is scum gunsmith as IV could have kept silent, SS shoots House for lying about being a vig and then just goes on their way. I don’t see the incentive for scum to out SS there.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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yes because a roleblocker/ascetic means the fruit vendor is not an absolute power role and instead can be a liability which is really bad given the lack of other power roles to make up for it.In post 5111, Datisi wrote:
does this really make less sense than one shot novice vig + weak fruit vendor period?In post 5107, Aristeia wrote:one shot novice vig + weak fruit vendor + EN Gunsmith versus Scum with Roleblocker
like, genuine question, not trying to sound like an ass-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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It actually makes me locktownIn post 5118, MathBlade wrote:Similar to why I don’t TR Ari for House dying. It’s NAI-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10219
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Hard disagree. I doubt House ever changes his read on me.In post 5129, MathBlade wrote:
I think if he lived he would. Because then he wouldn’t be confirmed because VT.In post 5126, Aristeia wrote:do you think house is going to wake up today and decide to flip his read on me?
Combined with the lack of a result on you I think he’d change his read yeah.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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if mathblade is town and deathtunneled on me!town why would scum ever shoot mathblade?In post 5133, Andresvmb wrote:
Can you not just rely on this argument? I don’t think you have the greatest incentive to shoot House, other than so you can scream nonstop that you don’t do this and to trust you. So it’s somewhat WIFOMy. It was unclear to me what the hell kind of role House could possibly have if he actually had a role, but a Scum you might not have wanted to take the chance. I probably don’t shoot in the POE, and always shoot one of Mathblade / IV. The fact they’re both here is baffling. If the Scum knew they could neutralize IV, why not shoot Mathblade then? I’m clearly missing something.In post 5093, Aristeia wrote:Scum!Me shoots Mathblade 1000 times out of 1000 there.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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It is the truth. I never shoot House here.In post 5133, Andresvmb wrote:Can you not just rely on this argument? I don’t think you have the greatest incentive to shoot House, other than so you can scream nonstop that you don’t do this and to trust you. So it’s somewhat WIFOMy. It was unclear to me what the hell kind of role House could possibly have if he actually had a role, but a Scum you might not have wanted to take the chance.
And being able to talk about me not shooting house is not useful because it doesn't actually do anything for me since Mathblade doesn'tcareabout it - he will think it is NAI.
It is 1000% better for scum!me to shoot mathblade, get rid of him wanting to kill me and have house!town alive to defend me.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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A lot of the play is colored by how many TPRs you think there will be in this game.
However if IV/Mathblade are both town, that means not a single scum player fake-claimed TPR.
How often does that actually happen in a game?
You guys all stated yesterday that no elim would lead to a kill no the "mech-clears" however look at today - niether "mech-clear" died - a result that you say is highly surprising - yet niether mechclear is pushing the other-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Ok if I'm a traitor who's the main scum and why did that main scum not shoot IV or you?In post 5143, MathBlade wrote:
What if you couldn’t shoot though? If you’re traitor the argument is a bad one.In post 5139, Aristeia wrote:
It is the truth. I never shoot House here.In post 5133, Andresvmb wrote:Can you not just rely on this argument? I don’t think you have the greatest incentive to shoot House, other than so you can scream nonstop that you don’t do this and to trust you. So it’s somewhat WIFOMy. It was unclear to me what the hell kind of role House could possibly have if he actually had a role, but a Scum you might not have wanted to take the chance.
And being able to talk about me not shooting house is not useful because it doesn't actually do anything for me since Mathblade doesn'tcareabout it - he will think it is NAI.
It is 1000% better for scum!me to shoot mathblade, get rid of him wanting to kill me and have house!town alive to defend me.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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I think everyone here thinks Mathblade is death-tunneled on me.In post 5142, Andresvmb wrote:They’re not deathtunneled on you. And why didn’t I just try and vote you out yesterday? I could have voted you, baited House to hammer you, and then won the game no? What was I waiting for then?
One reason why you didn't vote for me could be because if you vote for me then it makes you/IV lock-scum from my POV if House doesn't hammer and you suspect he is baiting you.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Aristeia SheSurvivor
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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