Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:11 am

VOTE: NK15
I already voted here but this is to make a statement that I do not see myself moving from this vote.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:13 am

In post 2324, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 2323, JacksonVirgo wrote:Gamma, Italian, Andres and NK.

All of which are in the PoE. I took Italiano out of the question temporarily. This is the pure PoE if all my reads up until this point are correct, which I do not believe is the case anymore. NK red leads to Koopa red which leads to Andres green. Not sure where I'd go from that point but in that case the remaining is currently in my brain as Gamma/Italian.
Where does NK green lead to?

NK green probably means one on my Scorp/Kitty reads are wrong. Koopa can be read based on their mechanical influence rather than in association with you. I think I've somewhat formed a tunnel tree on you and formed a stronger belief on the game-state than the other way around so I'd love some external insight (not from you NK ahaha) as to what people would believe would look bad on an NK green flip.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:14 am

I am seriously worried about koopa. Their latest actions do not seem motivated by Town, I originally thought it was so they don't cause so much heat but they're still as top heavy as before.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:15 am

I am aware saying this means they're less likely to be shot if Town, which is why I've been concerned by noting this publicly

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:15 am

In post 2330, koopashell wrote:
In post 2321, JacksonVirgo wrote:I think an NK red flip leads fairly nicely to a koopa red.
Damn. Shame reality won't agre.

Just slipped them as scum? Nice

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:16 am

In post 2332, Scorpious wrote:
In post 2319, JacksonVirgo wrote:I am against a koopa wagon ever.

In post 2320, JacksonVirgo wrote:Not ever, just today
Did you change your mind quickly? Did you “type” ever on accident?

Just a little weird that you would make such a definitive statement than retract it so fast..

I can’t get autocorrect to change “ever” to “today”..

It was more of an attempt to manipulate the scums agenda. If I said not ever, they might shoot them instead of me but then I don't want my words as a dead town PR to push into the mindset of the Town and let them get away without a scratch.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:16 am

Scorp did you ever respond to my post trying to convince ya?

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:18 am

In post 2334, koopashell wrote:
In post 2333, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2330, koopashell wrote:
In post 2321, JacksonVirgo wrote:I think an NK red flip leads fairly nicely to a koopa red.
Damn. Shame reality won't agre.
Just slipped them as scum? Nice
How so?

Half jab at how you just label everything as a slip and half serious where I am not sure if town!you would just assume NK is scum here and that my read is wrong rather than NK isn't scum as you're bouncing off of them a lot and just used them as a consolidation to get the day over.

Seems a bit off considering your mindset up until now.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:18 am

In post 2337, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 2336, JacksonVirgo wrote:Scorp did you ever respond to my post trying to convince ya?
JV you said that gamma is in your poe. Where is that read coming from?

Ah I meant Math. I got confused about the replacements.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:18 am

In post 2339, humaneatingmonkey wrote:youre saying the quiet part out loud JV

Wdym

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:21 am

I don't really have an issue with stating my suspicions on them anymore to be fair, as if they're Town and they are left alive for elim bait, we get clears or possibly a 1 for 1. If they don't catch anyone or left alive too long they're probably just scum.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:22 am

In post 2342, Scorpious wrote:
In post 2336, JacksonVirgo wrote:Scorp did you ever respond to my post trying to convince ya?
Negative, I never even found the time to get a good read in last night. Then I got very frustrated seeing how far behind I fell for sleeping and coming to work.

Let’s call you Orange in my eyes right now, there are a a few I’d prefer over you atm. Kitty, and Koopa to be specific.

No issues, I don't think you'd be able to get a wagon on me anyway (not a jab) so probably don't waste mental energy on it for day 1. Kitty and you have similar mindsets regarding me, does that affect your read on kitty at all? Considering I am a PR claimant that majority have come to town-block

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:23 am

In post 2345, Malakittens wrote:remind me how I can show gut

#askin'forafriend

I am assuming you aren't talking about sending a photo of ur gut. It's kinda difficult to explain gut-reads to people, if that's what you're talking about. Best suggestion is to ISO and find out a core reason as to why you have that gut read.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:27 am

My death means my base role gets to make a move or gunsmith makes a move. I doubt both as

[REDACTED]

.
Either is fine, even if it is one free action.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:29 am

In post 2348, Scorpious wrote:
In post 2344, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2342, Scorpious wrote:
In post 2336, JacksonVirgo wrote:Scorp did you ever respond to my post trying to convince ya?
Negative, I never even found the time to get a good read in last night. Then I got very frustrated seeing how far behind I fell for sleeping and coming to work.

Let’s call you Orange in my eyes right now, there are a a few I’d prefer over you atm. Kitty, and Koopa to be specific.
No issues, I don't think you'd be able to get a wagon on me anyway (not a jab) so probably don't waste mental energy on it for day 1. Kitty and you have similar mindsets regarding me, does that affect your read on kitty at all? Considering I am a PR claimant that majority have come to town-block
No offense taken..

And honestly, no.. but, because I’m not sure about you yet..

Do you think a scum would have a similar mindset as you which is against the general town's status quo? I believe scum try and elim the easier pile of eliminations rather than push a nigh impossibility.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:29 am

In post 2350, Scorpious wrote:I can’t get myself to believe both claims.

And both have reasons for me to doubt either.. but I do think one of you is lying. GTH I would say Koopa.

You don't think a Gunsmith and an undisclosed backup role which is a false-guilty to a gunsmith fits? That's like the most perfect fit of roles that could ever happen.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:32 am

If you think there's something off about the match of the claims, it would be me that's scum. As I made a claim that fits with theirs strongly. Now that I think about this, I am now just confident that koopa is the type of Town to be manipulative in nature and I think they're again back on my top towns, just not a currently effective one.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:36 am

In post 2355, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 2354, JacksonVirgo wrote:If you think there's something off about the match of the claims, it would be me that's scum. As I made a claim that fits with theirs strongly. Now that I think about this, I am now just confident that koopa is the type of Town to be manipulative in nature and I think they're again back on my top towns, just not a currently effective one.
Er, careful. The role you claimed also fits to a mafia Gunsmith.

It does, but only if my base role exists. If it does, if I die you'll know the role and koopa is just scum. Don't wanna speak much because the pool of my roles is quite small and I don't wanna leak the role if it does exist.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:38 am

In post 2357, Scorpious wrote:
In post 2351, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
In post 2350, Scorpious wrote:I can’t get myself to believe both claims.
why?
Because if they both are telling the truth, as I said before . This game is essentially over with the potential scum team that exist. There is skill in this game. Not the game to be outing town PR’s on D1.

Jackson would know that I think more than Koopa if this is in fact only his second game.

How is the game essentially over if we're both Town telling the truth? There is still 8 town and 3 mafia that is unaccounted for in terms of claims. Who's second game are you referring to? If it's mine, it is by far not my second game.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:41 am

In post 2359, Not Known 15 wrote:I think this discussion can be relegated until a massclaim or another pr claim comes forward.

Indeed

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:44 am

Millers claim day 1. I suspect I am such role. I then claimed. Wasn't to do with wagon pressure.
We can solve me further later assuming I don't die.

I think both Scorp and Kitty are out of the wagon choices for today. Scorp if you had to pick someone outside of ur three suspicions (me, kit, poopa) who would it be.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:46 am

In post 2362, Scorpious wrote:You’ve both removed the ability for someone to CC as well.. There is also that..

Your claim can’t be countered cause it’s vague
Koopa’s can’t be CC’d because if they are lying the “real” GS will not put themselves.(hopefully)

In post 2364, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 2323, JacksonVirgo wrote:Gamma, Italian, Andres and NK.

All of which are in the PoE. I took Italiano out of the question temporarily. This is the pure PoE if all my reads up until this point are correct, which I do not believe is the case anymore. NK red leads to Koopa red which leads to Andres green. Not sure where I'd go from that point but in that case the remaining is currently in my brain as Gamma/Italian.
Italian. Why do you think that Italian might be scum(not that I disagree)

Just in my PoE and the way things are sliding I don't see much else to for with the information I've currently got. Same with Math (I said gamma I meant math but I've said this).

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:54 am

In post 2366, koopashell wrote:I am also frustrated at you finding my strengthened townread on you to be suspicious when you yourself pushed me to read your meta as if you felt it was obvious when you are a wolf - so there's that

I wouldn't have an issue with it if it was believable.

1. Your meta-dive on me was concluded in you being more confident I was scum.
2. I couldn't find a post where you described what about that post you referred to made me lock-town. Or at least with details enough to make me lock-town rather than just continuing a strong town read on me like before.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:59 am

In post 2370, koopashell wrote:
In post 2368, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2366, koopashell wrote:I am also frustrated at you finding my strengthened townread on you to be suspicious when you yourself pushed me to read your meta as if you felt it was obvious when you are a wolf - so there's that
I wouldn't have an issue with it if it was believable.

1. Your meta-dive on me was concluded in you being more confident I was scum.
2. I couldn't find a post where you described what about that post you referred to made me lock-town. Or at least with details enough to make me lock-town rather than just continuing a strong town read on me like before.
Ok I guess I'll come clean - I was tunneled and I lied about really meta diving you and skimmed your list of threads and chose the first mafia chat I could find

I know.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:20 am

In post 2414, koopashell wrote:One thing I will now explain about my play now that I can sit down and post this:
Some pushes I will make to eliminate possibilities. Rather than miseliminate - I will push someone I think has potential to towntell under pressure - such as Mala. Such as Flavor Leaf. Etc.
I will pursue wild theories sometimes to see reactions.
I am doing this with the intent of narrowing possible worlds. Rather than push a miselimination and require a flip to do this, I deduce it via social interaction. See what I did there ;)
I think many down the line miseliminations can be prevented this way- such as JV, who might have potentially entered a gamestate where they looked bad off recent stuff but since they established themselves town on day 1 it helps prevent it.
Day 1 should be a "brainstorm for wolf team" day - where theories go out and go wild.
I also believe in being generous with townreads on players who are actively pushing solvy content on day 1 - if they are wolves, they are high spew targets.

I'd like to hear more from Roden Kitty and Mala regarding their overall view of the game at some point soon.

I would again be okay if you didn't, once again, contradict yourself from past conversations. You did not push me to prevent a mis-elimination on me, you said yourself that you were tunnelled on me. You wouldn't have said that, nor say that you faked a meta-dive on me without explaining that you did so to try and gauge me not push me for an elimination.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:21 am

You, in one shot, just removed all the pressure you would ever make with your slot as well. Nicely done

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:31 am

In post 2427, koopashell wrote:
In post 2423, JacksonVirgo wrote:You, in one shot, just removed all the pressure you would ever make with your slot as well. Nicely done
I'm tired of these kinds of statements directed towards me.
Just stop dancing around it and call me a shit garbage player if thats what you mean.

I do not believe you to be a shit player, I think that you'd usually be decent but this game is kinda scuffed and in extension I believe most to be playing poorly.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:42 am

In post 2431, humaneatingmonkey wrote:we're page 98 in a mini normal :( how will i ever re-read this shit :(

What's the record?

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:44 am

In post 2444, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2323, JacksonVirgo wrote:Gamma, Italian, Andres and NK.

All of which are in the PoE. I took Italiano out of the question temporarily. This is the pure PoE if all my reads up until this point are correct, which I do not believe is the case anymore. NK red leads to Koopa red which leads to Andres green. Not sure where I'd go from that point but in that case the remaining is currently in my brain as Gamma/Italian.
…

Say something about it. Don't just use an ellipsis, I hate people that post useless messages that pretend to have content.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:51 am

In post 2447, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2363, JacksonVirgo wrote:Millers claim day 1. I suspect I am such role. I then claimed. Wasn't to do with wagon pressure.
We can solve me further later assuming I don't die.

I think both Scorp and Kitty are out of the wagon choices for today. Scorp if you had to pick someone outside of ur three suspicions (me, kit, poopa) who would it be.
Target me tonight.

What?

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:51 am

In post 2448, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2446, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2444, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2323, JacksonVirgo wrote:Gamma, Italian, Andres and NK.

All of which are in the PoE. I took Italiano out of the question temporarily. This is the pure PoE if all my reads up until this point are correct, which I do not believe is the case anymore. NK red leads to Koopa red which leads to Andres green. Not sure where I'd go from that point but in that case the remaining is currently in my brain as Gamma/Italian.
…
Say something about it. Don't just use an ellipsis, I hate people that post useless messages that pretend to have content.
The only person in your PoE I feel like seems has a good chance to be scum is NK15, even correcting my name to Math

And?

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:01 am

I'm a/an

[REDACTED]

backup role that is a false-guilty to a gunsmith.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:01 am

In post 2458, koopashell wrote:Ah. A townslip.

Indeed it is.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:03 am

In post 2461, koopashell wrote:My working theory was that he read in the wolf chat that you were a PR and up until this point I dont remember you referencing your claim as anything but explicitly a backup

I thought you said it was a townslip. Which I read it as

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:24 am

In post 2484, MathBlade wrote:It’s been 6 hours and we have 8 pages. I have very limited time on my break.

Did anyone here want me to address anything?

Can you address the most blaring thing you've done this game!!

Spoiler:

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:31 am

In post 2490, humaneatingmonkey wrote:in fact i think it was a pr bait

It could be trying to gauge what type of role I am a backup of.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:33 am

Did I mention I am also 1-shot Bulletproof :p

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:41 am

In post 2497, DkKoba wrote:
In post 2494, JacksonVirgo wrote:Did I mention I am also 1-shot Bulletproof :p
I was actually considering claiming that so I dodge the nightkill - but I realized that people might mistake that as a traitor claim so I went against it :lol:

Lmfaooo, I had a feeling.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:35 am

I'd like a hammer asap. We aren't getting anywhere.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:39 am

In post 2526, MalcolmTucker wrote:
In post 2522, JacksonVirgo wrote:I'd like a hammer asap. We aren't getting anywhere.
Alternatives I would consider to NK15 are HEM and Kitty. HEM has toned it down a bit but could just be clever mafia play, I'm fairly sure there's one in NK15/HEM.

I would rather neither of those.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:45 am

In post 2536, koopashell wrote:I want to get a better perspective from someone who suspects them.

I don't scum-read them?

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:49 am

In post 2544, koopashell wrote:
In post 2543, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2536, koopashell wrote:I want to get a better perspective from someone who suspects them.
I don't scum-read them?
You have them in your PoE

No I don't. And PoE doesn't mean I necessarily scum-read them.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:29 pm

In post 2571, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 2568, koopashell wrote:JacksonVirgo
MathBlade
MalcolmTucker
Gamma Emerald
Malakittens
Roden
Scorpious
KittyTacky
ItalianoVD
Andresvmb
Not Known 15

current vibes
Well, there we go.
I am a town pr btw. An investigative one, no less.

Yikesies.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:31 pm

Didn't need a full claim but it's happened. Tracker + Gunsmith + My role. Hmmm

UNVOTE:

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:31 pm

I think I have the largest amount of mechanical information but outting it would mean my base role is outted.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:36 pm

In post 2576, Not Known 15 wrote:Yeah we might as well massclaim by now:(

day 1 mass-claim. Sounds spicy

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:40 pm

In post 2580, koopashell wrote:I'm assuming that based on your base role - you think it could exist - but it could very well be that scum are just informed that your role exists, JV.

I never said such thing, stating this is role-fishing and/or can leak my base-role and I'd rather you not if possible. I'll out my base-role if I feel it necessary, I don't know if my base-role exists and thus I am going through this accordingly.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:42 pm

I expected scum!NK to claim PR. But I did not expect that specific role, I don't really want it dead today.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:46 pm

In post 2583, koopashell wrote:informed scum exist, I reiterate.

we can go up the list tho -I suppose VOTE: Andres

In post 2584, humaneatingmonkey wrote:you can do that... or you can join me in Malakittens

the pressure is obviously working

No they are Town >:(

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:46 pm

Not andres. Mala

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:48 pm

In post 2587, humaneatingmonkey wrote:how can anyone look at Mala's dayplay and say this is town

VOTE: HEM

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:48 pm

UNVOTE:
Lol wanted to be funny

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:49 pm

In post 2591, koopashell wrote:I think NK15 and Mala have a difference check - to be fair.

A what now?

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:50 pm

In post 2593, koopashell wrote:
In post 2592, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2591, koopashell wrote:I think NK15 and Mala have a difference check - to be fair.
A what now?
It's T/S - is what I'm saying.
Picked up the phrase from a player I respect elsewhere lol

Disagree.

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:03 pm

It seems everyone has such a different read on HEM than I do. Maybe I got pocketed?

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:05 pm

Fuck it.
VOTE: HEM

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:53 am

I change my mind on scorp.

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:55 am

VOTE: VOTE: Scorp

Cant risk another PR outage lmfao

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:06 am

In post 2746, Scorpious wrote:
UNVOTE:
I AM VT

We know ur claimin vt

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:55 am

In post 2797, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
In post 2758, Scorpious wrote:one of 3 town investigative
three investigatives? how do you know JV is an investigative? did someone else claim?

Oof

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:56 am

In post 2799, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 2797, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
In post 2758, Scorpious wrote:one of 3 town investigative
three investigatives? how do you know JV is an investigative? did someone else claim?
JV is claiming backup of a gunsmith guilty, but that doesn't mean that that role exists. JV unvoted after my claim, and jv knows more than koopa(if town).

I did not claim that at all

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:56 am

Oh. Ignore

Thought you said GS ability not guilty

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:01 am

In post 2802, humaneatingmonkey wrote:so JV. is koba full of shit?

Possibly. Depends if my base role exists

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:07 am

In post 2805, koopashell wrote:JV NK and my role cannot coexist basically without town being informed

And why not

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:16 am

In post 2809, koopashell wrote:Because that many false guilties is too many with a gated GS according to reviewers when i tried to do the same thing.
Regardless, mech is bad and NK blatantly had that claim prepared and the moment they claimed was forced and scummy.

Tracker isnt a false guilty

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:27 am

We dont elim in the TI claims. Both alive means we get a certain result

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:29 am

I dont want more people to claim.

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:29 am

So hammer away

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:51 am

In post 2821, JacksonVirgo wrote:I dont want more people to claim.

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:02 am

Full sent

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:03 am

In post 2853, koopashell wrote:Gg on killing town JV

Id rather not leak the whole setup to the mafia. Koba stfu

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:03 am

In post 2859, Scorpious wrote:At least I’m glad scum lost this game by shitwagoning me..

Gg

Are you scum?

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:07 am

In post 2866, koopashell wrote:Not killing town >>>>> outing roles.
What are scum gonna do?

We have 3 PRs outted are you stupid

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:08 am

In post 2885, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:koopashell died last night. He was a
Town Odd-night Gunsmith
.

It is now Day 2!

Spoiler: good morning!

With a flipped GS I highly doubt that I am a real backup. I was really doubting koopa near the end of the day

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:08 am

In post 2887, Not Known 15 wrote:VOTE: Andresvmb

Guilty!

Lol

VOTE: Andres

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:09 am

In post 2889, MalcolmTucker wrote:Yeah that Scorpious elimination was not great. Some of their posts were off but mafia generally try to avoid looking obvious by voting for someone who's claimed a role.

I know they were not ideal, but I didn't want all PRs to potentially be outted D1.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:10 am

In post 2892, MalcolmTucker wrote:
In post 2890, Gamma Emerald wrote:fr?
I was gonna vote Kitty coming in probably, I feel like he kinda rode coattails a bit yday? He beat on Scorpious for pushing a claimed PR, which made me think Kitty claimed PR, but just generally I feel like kitty’s play has been scummy
I'd like Kitty to be put under plenty of pressure D2, agree that pushing Scorpious could be read as an opportunistic way for mafia to appear townie since some of the frustration could have been feigned as being understandable.

In post 2896, MalcolmTucker wrote:Still think we get one mafia from a HEM/NK15 elimination. Trouble is which one.

Are you overlooking the tracker guilty?

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:12 am

Malcom is almost certainly Town. Yay free clears

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:23 am

6 is hammer. It's now E-1

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:24 am

UNVOTE:

Don't wanna be in self-hammer territory

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:30 pm

In post 2910, MathBlade wrote:I guess the big question I have is why did scum send Andres to do the kill?

Depends if multitasking exists and where the PRs lie

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:31 pm

In post 2933, ItalianoVD wrote:
In post 2923, Roden wrote:Also I think this kill confirms that scum don't have a Roleblocker.
It would've been easy to get Koopa mis-elim'd by just blocking them every night and letting them cause chaos with their day play.
Though maybe they didn't think Koopa was actually all that chaotic, potentially because their reads were actually accurate or someone on the scum team got spooked once they revealed they were Koba all along.
This legit sounds like a post in the scumchat. :D Also, why block a pr when you can just kill it, hence why koopa is dead.

And yeah I’m doing this.

VOTE: Nk15

Why would scum force a 1 for 1 this early in the game.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:31 pm

In post 2935, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 2887, Not Known 15 wrote:VOTE: Andresvmb

Guilty!
Like why is this being just blindly trusted?

VOTE: NK15

Because why would scum force a 1 for 1

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:35 pm

In post 2946, ItalianoVD wrote:Gamma, you think NK15 and Andres are laying a scum gambit or should I let it go and just vote Andres?

In post 2949, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2944, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2910, MathBlade wrote:I guess the big question I have is why did scum send Andres to do the kill?
Depends if multitasking exists and where the PRs lie
I mean yes but no.

Assume scum have two PRs they had to use and Andres is a vanilla goon.

Then what were they doing?

We have Koopa, JV, and NK15 who all claimed something. If they’re all town what would the invests be doing?
Then if they have manipulators like a roleblock why did NK15 get a check off?

If Andres is a strongman so had to do the kill then that means we have a protective along with a gunsmith and a tracker who could act on D1?

I can’t get the pieces to fit which means something smells.

It could be more of an investigative-based scum-team where they have VCops or similar which forces me into a false-positive result for both sides. Roleblocker doesn't seem necessary with two gated investigatives.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:36 pm

In post 2951, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2946, ItalianoVD wrote:Gamma, you think NK15 and Andres are laying a scum gambit or should I let it go and just vote Andres?
It would be a very bold scum gambit, I don’t think NK15 is the type

That and they were quite confident the entire push on them yestergame, which aligns with them being PR knowing they wouldn't get the dead. It's not really an important argument as of right now.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:37 pm

Tracker dies tonight or we get free checks or we find out they're scum that won't die. Not difficult to counter this possible gambit.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:38 pm

In post 2950, ItalianoVD wrote:It doesn’t make sense which is why they would do it.

A 1 for 1 only benefits Town. If Andres is Town PR then mafia has an investigative that caught that, but considering the lack of a claim given a red-check I find that doubtful and even if that's true a 1 for 1 still benefits Town.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:41 pm

In post 2957, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2954, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2946, ItalianoVD wrote:Gamma, you think NK15 and Andres are laying a scum gambit or should I let it go and just vote Andres?

In post 2949, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2944, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2910, MathBlade wrote:I guess the big question I have is why did scum send Andres to do the kill?
Depends if multitasking exists and where the PRs lie
I mean yes but no.

Assume scum have two PRs they had to use and Andres is a vanilla goon.

Then what were they doing?

We have Koopa, JV, and NK15 who all claimed something. If they’re all town what would the invests be doing?
Then if they have manipulators like a roleblock why did NK15 get a check off?

If Andres is a strongman so had to do the kill then that means we have a protective along with a gunsmith and a tracker who could act on D1?

I can’t get the pieces to fit which means something smells.
It could be more of an investigative-based scum-team where they have VCops or similar which forces me into a false-positive result for both sides. Roleblocker doesn't seem necessary with two gated investigatives.
Assuming NK15 town for this argument:

There’s a gunsmith (which gets a guilty on almost all scum)
And a tracker who can fire N1.

This means that 2/3rds of the scum team could have potential guilties on them on N1. They might have a gated Roleblocker, but they’d need a gated inno or something.

Vanilla cop doesn’t work because soon as town invest flips it’s a guilty on the other.

It’s very puzzling.

I have claimed a backup for a gunsmith guilty which could very well be Vigilante. Scum could have a doctor which is a false-neg to a GS and thinks it's possible for a vigi to exist. Using it to protect a partner is possible. Why doesn't a VCop work, it isn't for a claim it's to counter TPRs

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:46 pm

In post 2960, MathBlade wrote:Vanilla cop doesn’t work for endgame reasons.
Assume NK15, Koopa, you all town.
Assume for argument’s sake you’re all killed each night and that the vanilla cop scum has claimed anywhere.

Vanilla cop is now turbo yeeted.

There’s no counter to the TPRs because even if the cop finds one it doesn’t matter as D2 becomes a results dump.

What's the point in figuring this all out?

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:47 pm

In post 2962, MathBlade wrote:To make this work scum need a roleblocker which begs the question why NK15 has a result.

I just can’t make this work without it.

But yet at the same time I feel like I am falling into a paranoia rabbit hole.

There is zero benefit to knowing this at the moment.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:51 pm

In post 2966, MathBlade wrote:viewtopic.php?p=13327143#p13327143

This is where I am getting at.

I am quite confused

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:56 pm

In post 2969, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2968, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2966, MathBlade wrote:viewtopic.php?p=13327143#p13327143

This is where I am getting at.
I am quite confused
In that game Koba was a false clear for bussing their buddy.

I examined it and figured out what they did only made sense for scum Koba.

By figuring out what the scum goals and intents are we can find who the players are that are doing it.

We don't have a protective. They will sort themselves as long as we are vigilant about it and don't let time slip away the logic.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:58 pm

Or we can elim them as soon as they give a green-check which is a route that's much more fun.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:59 pm

In post 2973, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2971, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2969, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2968, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2966, MathBlade wrote:viewtopic.php?p=13327143#p13327143

This is where I am getting at.
I am quite confused
In that game Koba was a false clear for bussing their buddy.

I examined it and figured out what they did only made sense for scum Koba.

By figuring out what the scum goals and intents are we can find who the players are that are doing it.
We don't have a protective. They will sort themselves as long as we are vigilant about it and don't let time slip away the logic.
Why do you say that?

If I was a protective I protect NK or JV not Koopa.

Koba has been known to run false gambits and lie to get what they want as town. Lord knows I wouldn’t protect them over JV or NK15. To be clear this is not a claim just an if. I might or might not be.

You shouldn't have said this :p
I was aware, I was doing a gambit of my own.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:00 pm

In post 2974, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2972, JacksonVirgo wrote:Or we can elim them as soon as they give a green-check which is a route that's much more fun.
I think sorting them soon as a green check. But yeah I can vibe with this.

It's the best course of action rather than trying to solve them now when the correct elimination is obvious. Scum!NK doesn't do this if Andres is not scum so it's an almost certain red flip today.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:02 pm

I was not saying I was aware you were the protective, I was referring to knowing that koopa dying does not equate to no TProt

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:03 pm

I just want to state that if I do die tonight do not take my role lightly, it is important.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:05 pm

It could be that the mafia are all in the lowest point in the Town and Andres was the top. That'd be quite funny

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:05 pm

I'll hammer if I see an E-1 vote.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:13 pm

In post 2990, ItalianoVD wrote:Get to E-1 and I’ll hammer.

No me

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:14 pm

Just want to say that Malcom is overwhelmingly Town.
Who is NK scum-reading prior to this red-check.

Scum might be there.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:15 pm

I think HEM and Andres are paired

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:19 pm

In post 2997, MathBlade wrote:Agreed. I want her reads and reads of anyone likely to be nightkilled.

Can you list the NKed people

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:20 pm

In post 2999, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2998, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 2997, MathBlade wrote:Agreed. I want her reads and reads of anyone likely to be nightkilled.
Can you list the NKed people
?? Koopa died last night?

Oh lmfao not what I meant but that is what I said. I was typing on a keyboard with one hand wanted to cheap it.

Can you list who you wanted reads from cuz they're likely to be Nked.

JacksonVirgo · Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:25 pm

In post 3001, MathBlade wrote: I am good at noticing certain things if I make a list it might help scum.

Damn, that's why I asked

Yeah that's fair.

JacksonVirgo · Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:02 am

In post 3023, Andresvmb wrote:I think I should claim yeah? I’m Vigilante and I targeted koopashell because I thought they were full of shit. There, I said it. You geniuses.

1. Why would you vote NK in retaliation if you knew they were correct.
2. Where is the mafia kill.
3. Why would you shoot a PR claim at all on N1

JacksonVirgo · Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:05 am

Did you claim vigi in hopes that's what I am a backup of? Lmfao

JacksonVirgo · Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:07 am

Kitty popped in time to hammer

VOTE: Andres

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:41 am

VOTE: HEM

GS Guilty

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:11 am

Just like yesterday, no hammers until we're all caught up.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:22 am

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:23 am

In post 3044, humaneatingmonkey wrote:dude
JacksonVirgo
you're scum

Why bold my name?

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:24 am

@HEM

why would I, if I were scum, 1 for 1 you given my position and the flipped scum prior.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:25 am

In post 3050, JacksonVirgo wrote:
@HEM
why would I, if I were scum, 1 for 1 you given my position and the flipped scum prior.

Answer this

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:27 am

In post 3053, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
In post 3050, JacksonVirgo wrote:
@HEM
why would I, if I were scum, 1 for 1 you given my position and the flipped scum prior.
so you can make this stupid gambit.

i hate that you're taking this route. what happened to just plain old 1v1-ing me and framing every post i made as scum? chivalry is dead.

Scum doesn't benefit from a 1 for 1. Town does, why would scum!me do it even if I was doing it to make this specific "gambit" as you call it. To get a VT dead?

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:28 am

Answer my question, with your brain.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:32 am

You seriously think I'd gambit a red-check on you when I already started pushign you end of yesterday along with others? A 1 for 1 even with a PR benefits Town, especially when scum died the day previous.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:34 am

In post 3065, humaneatingmonkey wrote:yeah dude just deploy wifom maybe that will save you for when i flip green and people vote you out.

I refuse to believe that you didn't consider this was a gambit to solve you.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:41 am

I'm backup vigilante, this indeed was a gambit (as I appreciate HEM's brain when they're Town and didn't want to miselim), considering there has been no vigilante kills I am certain I am just a false guilty. When I softed, I threw some reverse tags (with reversed text) in a few posts to claim my role, seperate so they'd have to search through it and also realise it's a soft if they've seen it but once I call it out it's super easily understood.

Spoiler: Claiming I am a backup

Spoiler: Claiming I am a Vigilante

Spoiler: Claiming I am a false-guilty

I didn't want HEM dead if they were Town, and figured if they were Town they'd use their brain enough to notice that it's -ev for scum!me to do this and notice it's a gambit. Scum would not have any information and would have to assume it's the truth, which is what HEM has done. Is this a certainty? Definitely not, but it's definitely not a clear like I hoped it would be. Although I would like someone to read into whether this is scum flailing or genuine townie frustration when this happened. As I personally would expect something specific that didn't happen (I will keep this in my brain for now to avoid external bias).

I believe the elim would have swung to HEM anyway and if this did not solve, at least it's extra content to read them on.

Doesn't matter too much, the PoE is small. Worth a shot. Also I found it funny to mimic what happened D2 with the tracker guilty in the first post aha

(I also asked nobody to hammer as I was going to retract prior to a hammer).

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:42 am

I'm fairly confident on this elim regardless.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:43 am

In post 3076, humaneatingmonkey wrote:just pump the brakes until 30 please
i want to go down fighting, not unable to respond properly because of my schedule

30?

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:43 am

Jesus, that's like 3 whole days,

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:45 am

I mean if a hammer happens early even if you were conf!scum I would be pissed so you'll have time.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:45 am

Good luck re-reading 130 pages

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:47 am

In post 3084, humaneatingmonkey wrote:im willing to do that. feels weak to replace out now. feels even weaker to be limmed for bogus shit. i at least want a confident solve before i go.

I respect the effort. Maybe you'll town-tell on the way, I'm hoping so as I didn't really want to be wrong on you.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:49 am

In post 3086, humaneatingmonkey wrote:alright JV if you're just doing a gambit, just give me fucking time alright

i know im just being pressured right now by scum because im such an easy slot to attack as im not at my 100%

but just give me some time

I already ended by gambit.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:51 am

In post 3088, MalcolmTucker wrote:There's not really any way we can go wrong here as town unless HEM were town and to gain some unique insight from rereading the whole thing. If HEM comes back town we go for Jackson next. If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:51 am

Wait Malcom did you fully catch up and not read my full-claim post.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:52 am

In post 3088, MalcolmTucker wrote:If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

Is this a slip?

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:09 am

I'm good with this actually. HEM is a second but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.
VOTE: Malcom

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:17 am

In post 3104, MalcolmTucker wrote:
In post 3100, JacksonVirgo wrote:I'm good with this actually. HEM is a second but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.
VOTE: Malcom
Why would you go from wanting an immediate elimination to backing off?

1. Never wanted an immediate elimination.
2. I suggest actually reading the game.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:30 pm

In post 3125, MathBlade wrote:@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.

I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:38 pm

In post 3132, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3131, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3125, MathBlade wrote:@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.
I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.
I don’t follow. Can you elaborate?

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

I just don't feel HEM is scum anymore, or at least I am less confident that I am willing for them to re-read and give thoughts, and Malcom is who I think is probably the best bet otherwise. I don't see how scum!italiano would be so obvious when their partner has been red-checked.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:40 pm

In post 3132, MathBlade wrote:I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.

Why do you have a feeling we have a deepwolf specifically? Also do you have any additional thoughts on why Andres attacked since your theory of a scum bus has been proven otherwise.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:50 pm

In post 3136, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 3134, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3132, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3131, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3125, MathBlade wrote:@JV can you explain your Malcolm case again? I don’t get that.
I never made a case, in fact I was pretty heavily town-reading them up until recently when I realised that they seemed to bounce around and avoid direct arguments against them.
I don’t follow. Can you elaborate?

I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.
I just don't feel HEM is scum anymore, or at least I am less confident that I am willing for them to re-read and give thoughts, and Malcom is who I think is probably the best bet otherwise. I don't see how scum!italiano would be so obvious when their partner has been red-checked.
Actually, when you put it that way I think Italiano’s play around the guilty was rather textbook scumplay. The Roden “scum slip” push is an attempt to create an additional escape route.
VOTE: ItalianoVD

Oh? Could you explain further? I don't see why scum!italiano would make it painfully obvious and vote the tracker which guiltied their partner, given the partner was also just a Goon.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:01 pm

In post 3139, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3135, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3132, MathBlade wrote:I have a feeling there’s a deep wolf stuff doesn’t add up here.
Why do you have a feeling we have a deepwolf specifically? Also do you have any additional thoughts on why Andres attacked since your theory of a scum bus has been proven otherwise.
There’s no freaking out or “strong” emotions. It’s all laid back. I’d expect more hyper ness or something.

And since Andres flipped goon this means either scum were PRs or they thought Andres wouldn’t be tracked or they’re not competent scum. The latter isn’t likely as there was mass claim on D1. So likely PRs is where I am at.

I do not believe lack of visceral behaviour is a hallmark for a deep-wolf. Andres being tracked and flipping red could mean a multitude of things for the way that the scum are acting and from what I've seen I don't think scum need two PRs to counter a gated GS with a counter within the Town (me) and a gated Tracker, so I seriously think that there's a scum that was in a worse position than Andres at the time prior to the red-check.

JacksonVirgo · Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:03 pm

In post 3140, Gamma Emerald wrote:If not braced properly, a guilty can rattle a scum player to make moves that be plainly seen as covering for their buddy. I’ve actually blown my game up in the past by doing that.

I mean I can definitely see scum doing what they did to open up mis-elimination possibilities but I personally do not see it coming from right after a red-check on their partner happens. Not completely against the elim but I won't be pushing it

JacksonVirgo · Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:24 pm

In post 3218, MathBlade wrote:For example I see you and a JV team and I don’t like how JV is sidelining this. I’d like if JV asked more questions.

How in the living fuck do you call me sidelining?

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:22 am

In post 3230, MalcolmTucker wrote:I get that Scorpious/Jackson going for Koopa may have seemed weird but it'd have so illogical and baffling for two mafia to both go on the same role-claimed player bandwagon.

To clarify, I did that to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:26 am

In post 3221, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3219, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3218, MathBlade wrote:For example I see you and a JV team and I don’t like how JV is sidelining this. I’d like if JV asked more questions.
How in the living fuck do you call me sidelining?
Because you are.

You’re doing flashy things but conversations are passing you by.

You’re not posting any thoughts regarding the current conversation.

Claiming backup vigilante is flashy.

Claiming a fake guilty on HEM is flashy.

But you’re almost universally TR’d. I want to see you use that in a protown way if you’re town.

I am not, I do not care if you refer to how I play as flashy. It is not sidelining, I am playing by my own ways who are you to tell me how I should play.

1. I don't have thoughts of worth that I feel important to say, as I said earlier I only speak if I feel a need to. Refer to my sig
2. Claiming my role is not flashy, it's claiming my role.
3. Claiming a fake guilty was for a very solid reason and you pushing that aside as purely flashy is naive.

I do not care what you want me to do, I am doing what I feel I should be doing and as of right now that is stepping back to spread my feelers out to avoid falling into confirmation bias. The moment you decide how I should play is the moment I dislike playing with you.

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:13 pm

In post 3233, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 3231, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3230, MalcolmTucker wrote:I get that Scorpious/Jackson going for Koopa may have seemed weird but it'd have so illogical and baffling for two mafia to both go on the same role-claimed player bandwagon.
To clarify, I did that to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.
Why do people ever think this works???

What's the harm in trying.

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:14 pm

In post 3234, MathBlade wrote:I want to pretty much light this entire page on fire because of all the scumminess.

Roden’s reactions do not remind me of their towngame at all. They were much more calm and collected.
Malcolm’s post looks like he’s chaining up miselims and just feels ewww
JV’s intentionally making people look worse and at the same time wondering why the hell I find their laid back play scummy and then has the gumption to argue that I should just shut up and like it anyway
Then gamma doesn’t comment on any of it and complains…

Like all of this is just bad.

I am nauseous af and it’s critical role night but I wish everyone would flip but me.

If everyone is scummy to you maybe stop complaining about it and consider that your view on scumminess is possibly just plain wrong.

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:46 pm

I think I am just angry at everything recently, apologies. Got rostered 6 days of work with a single day off and when doing overnights that means I can't do shit, actually pissed off.

JacksonVirgo · Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:47 pm

In post 3245, JacksonVirgo wrote:I think I am just angry at everything recently, apologies. Got rostered 6 days of work with a single day off and when doing overnights that means I can't do shit, actually pissed off.

To clarify I work full-time so I usually get 5 day weeks with 2 days off. Now I have 6 days with 1 day off and then one day off in the middle of the following week after like 3 other shifts.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:47 am

In post 3252, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3244, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3234, MathBlade wrote:I want to pretty much light this entire page on fire because of all the scumminess.

Roden’s reactions do not remind me of their towngame at all. They were much more calm and collected.
Malcolm’s post looks like he’s chaining up miselims and just feels ewww
JV’s intentionally making people look worse and at the same time wondering why the hell I find their laid back play scummy and then has the gumption to argue that I should just shut up and like it anyway
Then gamma doesn’t comment on any of it and complains…

Like all of this is just bad.

I am nauseous af and it’s critical role night but I wish everyone would flip but me.
If everyone is scummy to you maybe stop complaining about it and consider that your view on scumminess is possibly just plain wrong.
Lol no. My definition is not wrong. Thanks though.

Town players can be scummy. I just wish less were. You yourself admitted you were being scummy earlier.

I am really getting paranoid JV.

Whatever you say, but if you see everybody as scummy there's something wrong and it isn't the people.

Where did I admit to being scummy.

Get paranoid, see who gives a shit.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:39 am

In post 3256, ItalianoVD wrote:@JV: Are you following up on Malcolm? Or just throwing another Gambit.

I've stated my thoughts on them already. No I am not following up as I have nothing to follow up with.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:00 pm

In post 3265, MathBlade wrote:VOTE: JV

Someone want to explain why JV is town?

I see zero desire to solve, back off a claim to potentially miselim HEM when it picked up steam, vote sitting on a random person, deliberately makes people look scummy and discussed it with Italiano but then when I bring it up it’s like “I don’t recall”.

He’s just vote sitting Malcolm and then doesn’t explain why when asked multiple times.

1. Explained what I am doing, how about read.
2. How is stopping a potential miselim a bad thing.
3. Not random, just don't have a better option and I believe them to have been bouncing around criticism which I feel is scummy just not anything I want to case as I am not super confident in it.
4. Are you a moron? I made them look worse for them not to get killed by mafia, considering their claim how about you use your fucking brain.
5. What.

Also you didn't quote where I said I was scummy, or did you make it up.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:01 pm

You know how I play as scum, it isn't passive yet here you are being either a dunce or scum. Which is it

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:24 pm

In post 3268, Malakittens wrote:JV BE NICE

Yeah alright, apologies.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:28 pm

In post 3270, Malakittens wrote:LIKE i get being upset, but the last two posts were definely over the line.
This is coming from someone who is known to get very aggressive & snippy

so thats a redflag

I just feel they're being dumb, like I would almost 100% be dying tonight and that woulda been enough of a solve rather than their useless vote and yet they're ignoring that fact and deciding to piss me off instead. I get I stepped the line though, apologies.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:14 pm

In post 3274, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3231, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3230, MalcolmTucker wrote:I get that Scorpious/Jackson going for Koopa may have seemed weird but it'd have so illogical and baffling for two mafia to both go on the same role-claimed player bandwagon.
To clarify, I did that to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.
I am referring to here btw by intentionally scummy and you admitted it btw

That is not claiming to be intentionally scummy nor is it at all. I was intentionally faking my read on them for the benefit of the town, nowhere did I claim it was scummy to do so.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:15 pm

In post 3275, MathBlade wrote:I will respond to your other questions when I don’t want to throw my phone across the room but the jist is some people read players and others read gamestate and others read relationships. I am more the latter so any stilted relationship flags for me

I'm more of the gamestate per se.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:19 pm

In post 3278, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3276, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3274, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3231, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3230, MalcolmTucker wrote:I get that Scorpious/Jackson going for Koopa may have seemed weird but it'd have so illogical and baffling for two mafia to both go on the same role-claimed player bandwagon.
To clarify, I did that to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.
I am referring to here btw by intentionally scummy and you admitted it btw
That is not claiming to be intentionally scummy nor is it at all. I was intentionally faking my read on them for the benefit of the town, nowhere did I claim it was scummy to do so.
Intentionally faking reads = scummy.

Incorrect. Nor did I say this

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:23 pm

In post 3280, Roden wrote:
In post 3277, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3275, MathBlade wrote:I will respond to your other questions when I don’t want to throw my phone across the room but the jist is some people read players and others read gamestate and others read relationships. I am more the latter so any stilted relationship flags for me
I'm more of the gamestate per se.
What's your take on the current game state? The lull in activity feels off to me.

In post 3283, MathBlade wrote:You said you intentionally faked a read.

By definition that’s scummy.

Are we reading the same things here?

It isn't what I would call scummy. If I faked a read without a reason it would be, intentions are a better source of reading how scummy an action is rather than the direct actions. I am not against town lying either, I based my playstyle around fake-claiming as Town for Town's benefit in a forum that played more PR-focused games.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:24 pm

In post 3280, Roden wrote:
In post 3277, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3275, MathBlade wrote:I will respond to your other questions when I don’t want to throw my phone across the room but the jist is some people read players and others read gamestate and others read relationships. I am more the latter so any stilted relationship flags for me
I'm more of the gamestate per se.
What's your take on the current game state? The lull in activity feels off to me.

I was mainly waiting on HEM to catch up or the day to get closer to the end to add my thoughts to it.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:24 pm

In post 3287, MathBlade wrote:Jackson: “To clarify, I did that
[faked a scumread on Koopa] to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they [Koopa] were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.”

Like?? [] are me adding context from a prior quote.

So not wanting a PR claim to die is scummy?

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:25 pm

In post 3284, humaneatingmonkey wrote:so i think scum will be at the side of those still trying to still get me elimmed

which gives me confidence that Roden is town here for defending me in my absence

I already concluded they were :p

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:26 pm

In post 3291, MathBlade wrote:Like ..I don’t get it. Town can have good reasons to be scummy but not calling it scummy is gaslighty AF.

We have conflicting beliefs as to what is scummy, leave it at that.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:29 pm

In post 3293, humaneatingmonkey wrote:i've been thinking about JV's gambit over the past days and the crumbs he laid out for us. his crumbs came before any gunsmith role was claimed. i think it's real. if scum was informed, this would be nullified but i think this is just town.

To add to it I thought that they knew there were no masons because they were a Vigilante and that'd be too OP. I softed backup prior to them claiming GS but I added the Vigilante and the false-guilty softs when quoting the post and afterwards.

Thought it the perfect place to signal koopa if they were fake-claiming GS as vigilante as well.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:31 pm

In post 3295, MathBlade wrote:I am going to step away because I am very tempted to tunnel JV over objections here. Like JV feels really slimy.

Yep, because you're being foolish or just scum like I said earlier. You never responded to that you know how I play as scum, this is vastly opposed to that yet you're still acting the way you are. If it's a paranoia read just because I am strong as scum, just say that instead of making up all this bullshit just to tunnel me.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:32 pm

I also hammered right as I called andres out for claiming the vigi because I was paranoid I slipped what I was in case they fake-claimed it (which I believed almost whole-heartedly), wanted to avoid being known as that and if they were Vigilante I woulda just shot NK.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:35 pm

In post 3294, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3289, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3287, MathBlade wrote:Jackson: “To clarify, I did that
[faked a scumread on Koopa] to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they [Koopa] were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.”

Like?? [] are me adding context from a prior quote.
So not wanting a PR claim to die is scummy?
Of course not.

How you went about it was scummy though as it denies us the chance to read you as I have to figure out what is fake versus real. And if I find something is it “oh I had a good reason” every time?

What the heck are you on about? You can't read me just because I put some heat onto koopa? You'd rather me not do a single thing to protect an outted investigative? And your reasoning that you cannot believe me since I'll just back out, read me on each basis not in fear that I will do it in the future when you have no way to know if I will or not. Your entire case on me is foolish

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:44 pm

I wish I did my fake-guilty on malcom

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:44 pm

It's hard to formulate into words what I see of them.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:17 pm

Intent to hammer because I want the day to end

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:20 pm

In post 3326, Roden wrote:Let Italiano claim first

Reason why I haven't yet

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:21 pm

I don't really see them flipping red tbf but they will almost definitley advance the game.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:22 pm

In post 3327, ItalianoVD wrote:
In post 3312, humaneatingmonkey wrote:btw im going to hammer italiano at E-1 so i dont have to be the elim :P just gonna put that out there
Got no problem with it. This game has been draining.

I take that as a VT claim. If you don't let us know in the next few hours Ima hammer unless someone beats me to it

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:25 pm

Neat Italiano is Town

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:26 pm

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:27 pm

Shoot tonight. If you are we get 2 free shots even if you die or I die.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:27 pm

Recommend Malcom

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:28 pm

In post 3337, Roden wrote:
In post 3112, Roden wrote:
In post 3088, MalcolmTucker wrote:There's not really any way we can go wrong here as town unless HEM were town and to gain some unique insight from rereading the whole thing. If HEM comes back town we go for Jackson next. If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

In post 3101, MalcolmTucker wrote:
In post 3099, ItalianoVD wrote:
In post 3094, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 3088, MalcolmTucker wrote:If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?
Is this a slip?
Nah that was a typo. Meant if Jackson isn't.
Where does "if Jackson isn't" fit into that post?
In case I die, please don't forget this tomorrow, because Malcolm never responded.

They haven't been responding to anything against them, reason I want them deado mcdead

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:29 pm

In post 3340, ItalianoVD wrote:
In post 3333, humaneatingmonkey wrote:VOTE: IVD

I HARDCLAIM VIGILANTE
Nice kill Roden or Gamma

Neither. Malcom

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:31 pm

In post 3342, Malakittens wrote:....

do you really think he would hardclaim like that as a real vig

my god ppl are so gullible these days..

Why not assume it's true, what's the harm.

JacksonVirgo · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:31 pm

I just wanna shoot someone ok. I can only hope

JacksonVirgo · Wed May 11, 2022 3:05 pm

In post 3800, MathBlade wrote:Quite honestly if Jackson continued their fake claim I think town just wins.

I knew JV was lying due to the rolecop but then HEM flips and you’d know that scum wouldn’t be triple VTs then you just claim VT / named PR and start aiming at who dies. You weren’t a VT and if town was more present I don’t think I push that bad logic.

Yeah I regret not continuing

JacksonVirgo · Wed May 11, 2022 3:07 pm

In post 3838, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3836, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 3828, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3827, RadiantCowbells wrote:I sim this setup as sub 50% odds of a town win. I can't really help beyond that.
Then imho your sim is flawed.

A n1 guilty is the expected result in this scenario and with that town’s more often than not win unless it’s prepared for.
only the tracker and the jk could get guilties n1
a jk guilty is inconclusive and a tracker guilty is highly unlikely
Gunsmith can get guilty N1.

If gunsmith hadn’t claimed and didn’t know what was safe and try the majority of scum safe claims jk/vig enabler
They die
The VTs can’t claim rolecop because then soon as buddy dies they do.

Gunsmith is a 100% cop

They had a false positive

JacksonVirgo · Wed May 11, 2022 3:30 pm

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89324&p=13334754#p13334754

My notes PT. Nothing super fancy

JacksonVirgo · Fri May 13, 2022 8:45 pm

In post 3943, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
In post 3796, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
In post 3095, humaneatingmonkey wrote:guys im an easy picking right now

understand that

analyze it

if you want some vulnerability, i'm gonna go ahead and admit that i'm not gonna jeopardize my scum w/l record by staying in a losing game if i'm mafia here (people have been suspecting me since D1, and i'm unable to give my best game because i'm swamped).
did this really break any rules? is this a real trust tell?

no i dont think so. 1.) it's not a real trust tell of mine. it's a total lie. check my games. it's never been a pattern 2.) i didn't say never/always. 3.) i did not publicly consider or publicly announce a choice to replace out.

Invoking trust tells.

Trust tells have long been a point of confusion, and for good reason - they are one of the most subtle rules we have, and if you don't understand them it's not even clear why they'd be a problem. They act as a form of OGI typically by allowing a player to assert themself as town more strongly than would normally be possible. The subtlety around trust tells comes mostly from their distinction from acceptable self-meta. Self-meta turns into a trust tell when there is an explicit or implicit statement that it would never be broken, or that it would only be broken extremely rarely. Important here, and a distinction from how we've handled things in the past, is that we are extending this to include cases where the person is not intentionally building up a trust tell, but is instead simply pointing out a pattern in their meta that they never intend to break. For example, the following may all constitute trust tells depending on context:

"I will never lie using red text."
"I have never faked a guilty as scum."
"I will always claim my real role."
"I never bus as scum."

Context is very important here. If a relatively new player says that they've never fakeclaimed before, this is not a problem - however, if a player with many dozens of completed games points out the same thing and says that they never fakeclaim as a policy, then every game where they don't lie about this policy increases the credence of their claim. After a certain point, this becomes an unfair advantage because statistically, the more times in a row someone has told the truth about something, the more likely it is that they will always tell the truth about it.

There are a variety of factors that each push something toward being an unfair trust tell: history of having followed the tell, specifically stating that the tell will never be broken in the future rather than merely stating that it's been followed up until now, an explicit advantage (such as being more plausibly town) being gained by people believing the tell, the tell being about very specific behavior, and so on. However, none of these individually are necessary for something to be a trust tell.

If you wish to refer to your own meta, as a rule of thumb, do not speak in absolutes. We obviously cannot (and do not want to) punish someone for having some of these policies (e.g., if you believe that it is never correct to bus as scum, or don't want to fake a guilty, we can't make you). In these cases, you simply cannot discuss behaviors like this in discussion of your own meta. If someone else brings up something that may qualify as a trust tell for you, you can say that you've never done the behavior in question, but you cannot say that you have a policy of never doing it. This is not a perfect solution, but we don't believe that a perfect solution exists.
i want this game to be clean so a listmod might want to rule over this one.
listmod already ruled over on this one and i broke the rules! sorry about making this post, thought it wouldn't break any.

Do you actually replace out just because of your W/L record?

JacksonVirgo · Fri May 13, 2022 9:00 pm

In post 3945, humaneatingmonkey wrote:no lmao. i replace out when i overstretch and life hits me with an impossible schedule. then i won't even be here for a whole year or so. town games and scum games. winning or losing. left a lot of winning games from years past just because i can't play anymore.

but sircakez said it doesn't really matter. i brought ogi influence in the game and that's all that mattered. i disagree, but i'm fine with it.

dw dw I got warned for this game as well lmao.

JacksonVirgo · Mon May 16, 2022 11:19 am

Subject: Mini Normal 2271 - Mafia PT
Please deploy hugs to JV in the dead thread[/quote]

I was not sent hugs. I was robbed!

JacksonVirgo · Mon May 16, 2022 11:19 am

Oh no the quote broke