Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Eira

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: confidently wrong

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why did you self vote?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So why change your vote?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would like to elim this player now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We're elimming Confidently Wrong

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meta is bad.

Elimming you is good.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure.

He self-voted (appears care free)

Two people hop on his self vote and create a wagon.

He ignores it. If it wasn't some sort of basic reaction test, what exactly was the point of it? Except to appear 'care-free and townie'

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, but I would still expect you to do something with it as town.

Especially now, given you're clear disregard (dislike?) for RVS

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: bbt

Hi bae

Who do I sheep
We kill the scums
Together

I missed this <3

We're elimming Confidently Wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I had already found fancy pants lightly scummy but I wanted to do my bit

Talk about it

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh dear

[BlueBloodedToffee]

FP, is there a reason you're not voting CW?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You should probably vote them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I see that. My problem is not with the inital vote.

It's with the lack of follow up on a wagon forming on him.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: CSF

Oh yeah, we can do this now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because you disliked my push

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm feeling that

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shoshin is Kenny scum or is that just me

He just posted about 200 words without a single read in them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fred could be scum, too.

So Fred/Kenny/???

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Kenny

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Boooooooo

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But what you posted wasn't relevant. You posted a bunch of stuff but didn't actually give any reads, so the question is this; why post it at all?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fred, what happened?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My post wasn't intended to look like I was doing stuff.

Your post is posted under the guise of actually contributing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can we stop voting Malcolm now and start voting Kenny?

Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also for reference I'm liking scum in:
{Loftwing/Kenny/Lowell/Malakittens}

Increasing the net would add {BBT, and maybe Eira}

Kenny is scum.

This is also extremely rude. If there is any town block, I'll be in it and that's the end of that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure.

Your posts don't look like town posts to me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright Kenny, you convinced me.

VOTE: Lowell

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Kenny

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will catch up on this when I can.

Mod, can we get a VC please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, where are we at in this game?

Slowly reading and catching up. Have we got a recent VC at all?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am not caught up in this game.

Two competing wagons is spicy though. I want to get involved

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why are null reads scummy?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shoddy reasoning for null reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd wagon Fred Mala, similar feelings regarding their posts

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't have one yet. I'm not fully caught up with the game, kind of dipping in and out at the min.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I haven't seen that yet.

Having null reads isn't scummy though so...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But no one is saying that is scummy on its own.

That's all I've really seen so far

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm so far behind in this game, only read properly up to page 11.

Loftwing wagon seems bad though, likely scum on that push. Gonna try my best to catch up today

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lowell is a bad vote

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Malcolm?
Fred?
Yourself?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

Of course you do.

Maybe Eira, too? You could just be bad at the game I guess.

There is at least one scum in Fred/Malcolm.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, Eira I can buy. Lowell feels town though.

Switching votes to self-pres isn't scummy. Not even in the slightest

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can only go off early-ish posts and it's not a read I can say I'm wholly confident in either. Therefore, I'm not entirely comfortable explaining it - not yet anyway.

Ther

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have no idea how I posted that half way through...

There are much better places to put votes today - Fred and Malcolm being two of them. IIRC, there was a wagon on Eira and I'm interested to have another look at that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Eira

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is anyone interested in a Fred or Malcolm wagon?

Fred is preference.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Fred

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fred, I would like to know why you think Loft is scum.

I find you haven't given your read/position on many players in the game

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, can you explain your fascination with Eiralox not voting someone?

And why this fascination was not also applied to Malcolm?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why is it terrible?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You didn't answer the question.

Why is it terrible?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, no, no. What?

You're making no sense here. Why was Eira's post terrible?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see.

Terrible =/= scum. I understand now, you should be clearer in how you say things.

It made it look like you thought Eira was scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Malcolm, that was more a question towards Fred than yourself.

What do you make of Lowell saying Eira's unvote was a 'terrible' post?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is there anyone openly opposing the Loftwing wagon except for myself? Lack of counter wagon should also be a concern if true.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah nice, shame nobody has been listening.

Fred seems like a good vote, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Loft, can you give me a run down of where you're at?

Regarding the self-pres, if I'm at L-1 and my top town read is the next largest wagon, regardless of my alignment I'm voting the counter wagon to save myself. If I'm town, I can never be as sure on someone else's alignment as I am of my own and if I'm scum, well, I just want to live.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

20 hours left and I don't like either of the leading wagons.

Fantastic stuff.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is anyone interested in a Fred or Malcolm wagon?

Fred is preference.

I would still do this if we can get any traction at all

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum can be neighbourizer, but as you say, it's usually town aligned.

I see no town reasons for hiding the rest of the claim now. Also, unless the other ability is very specific, my town read on Loft is not as strong.

Either way, can we not do Loft today? Fred or Malcolm are juicy, no? Also, Fred jumping on the Loft wagon as his name starts being spoken about as a potential elim looks fishy, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Give me 10-15 mins

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry it's taken me so long, post on Fred incoming (interesting that Eira just mentioned scum in the shadows of town)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fred;

156 This was the first post that caught my attention. The LAMIST post, give three town reads. Extremely easy for scum to do given the extra information they have - three scum reads would be better to create actual content, no?

214 The random push on the LHF. I get this to an extent, it's early game so push the low posters for content. 223, 334 335 though continues this push further, now it becomes a 'genuine push' as opposed to a low content push and is where I start to dislike it. This is the first time he sheeps CW.

348 His fascination with Eira not voting anyone. This continues for quite some time and yet he doesn't apply this to other players - like Malcolm.

545 He votes Eira. Sheeping CW (again) and Irrelephant. Now, as scum, this is a great way to go by unnoticed right? Just do what the loudest, widest town read players do and you get no hassle. He very much goes with the flow of the thread and I'm not sure I've seen any originality from him at all?

554 OK, some explanation for the Eira vote. Fascination with the no voting (again) and given it seems so important to him, why has he not applied the same thinking to Malcolm? I mean, the first paragraph is a narrative of what happened and doesn't actually indicate why he thinks Eira is scum. The whole post has a lot of words but doesn't actually say why what Eira has done is scummy.

Eira wagon; Eiralox (5): Confidently Wrong, Irrelephant11, Fredrick A Campbell, Cat Scratch Fever, Loftwing

Is that all town? Seems unlikely.

572 LAMIST, don't anybody dare hammer my scumread!

He is first to jump off the Eira wagon though, which gives me some pause. It is, though, after Irrelephant mentions he has lost his Shoshin and Mala reads. 647 pre-emptively sheeping by voting Mala.

766 Random vote on Lowell. Literally, aside from talking about low content posters, this has come from nowhere. Or has it? In 753 Irrelephant says that Mala is town...and just like that, Fred backs off Mala. Not only does he back off Mala, he again chooses to go for the LHF. We're now 31 pages into the game by the way.

768 A horrific explanation for the shift in votes.

838 Why is he asking why Loft is town? Angling to join the wagon? He has shown no previous interest in this player.

842 Declares intent to hammer Loft? WHAT? Where did this come from? After some talk about Fred possibly being scum he speeds up his 'timer' for hammering Loft.

Can anyone guess who recently joined the Loft push before Fred decided it was good for him, too? You get two guesses.

Spoiler: Who is it?

It's Irrelephant (again!)

892 Justification for the Loft vote. It's simply appalling that this late into the game, all of Fred's reads amount to 'but they're not doing anything.' He has sheeped either CW or Irrelephant the entire game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Now vote Fred.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Neighbourizer used to be fairly common when I played. Again though, it can come from either alignment. Which makes me think Loft is more likely to be town because scum come up with a better claim?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT, I think your case on Fred has some merit, I do think his vote on Eira - subsequent poking, and then his vote off are fine, his pressure vote on mala is also fine he explains that he wasn't looking for her to hang.
His worst vote is for Loftwing, but it's far worse if Loftwing is scum I feel, I don't think scum Fred jumps on a town-loft for no reason, but I can see it being a bus. The justification for voting Loft from him was kind of a lurker thing which he has shown interest in chasing.

I see what you're saying but I'm not fully convinced.

His votes in and of themselves are not the point. The point is the fact he has sheeped CW or Irrelephant the entire game and has provided barely any original thought.

He has pushed LHF the entire game - this is fine for 15 pages I guess. But at some point you have to start providing actual validated scum reads. He isn't doing this.

His vote on Mala...the point was what? Just because he prefaces it with 'it's not for an elim' that makes it a good vote? If it's not for elim, then what is the point? Because as soon as you preface with your vote with that then it becomes an empty vote doesn't it?

Scum!Fred has jumped on almost everyone with no reasoning. He has sheeped Irrelephant and CW. Why would Loft be any different? Like, the vote literally comes from nowhere.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The justification for voting Loft from him was kind of a lurker thing which he has shown interest in chasing.

Loftwing has more posts than Lowell, Malcolm, Cat, Kenny and Shoshin. I'm not sure a 'lurker' push is sufficient reason I'm afraid.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You know you hit scum when you face solid resistance.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fredrick is town, probably PR, we are NOT voting there.

he has clearly played in a non agenda way do not fucking counterwagon them last second.,

We're very much voting there, actually. You're gonna have to walk me through how Frederick is town.

He has played in a non-agenda way? What are you talking about? He has sheeped you or Irrelephant the entire game. He has barely shown any original thought and his whole agenda has been to elim LHF.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I honestly am getting fed up with your indecisiveness and insistence to not listen to me at all. you are very easily pulled into weird LHF pushes.

Stop playing pro scum and vote lowell instead of trying to classify weird play as scummy.

Weird LHF??? Hahaha, like Fred hasn't spent all game doing that? Give me a break

Lowell is a lot more like LHF than Fred is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Are you serious about the sheeping?

Read my case on Fred and tell me that's not what they have done ALL GAME

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not at all.

I give a better case on Fred than you have on Lowell based on the exact same reasoning.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My case implies Fred has been sheeping the loudest (and most widely town read) players like Irrelephant and yourself.

Join the good fight. Vote Fred.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Show me a better case

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're not sure why someone who produces no original thought could be scum?

Or who insists over 30+ pages on insisting the easiest of targets?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We got 12 hours.

Fred is on 3 votes, 5 if you two join the cause. 6 as Fancy will vote if needed towards deadline.

Only need one more.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fred is on 4 votes actually.

Elim is well within reach

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Looks that way, not sure what Loft is on

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fred is the Loft alternative.

I think we let him claim but it shouldn't change too much.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You don't think Neighbourizer is an awful fake claim? Like, even if I'm a scum Neighbourizer I come up with something better than that

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Eira is voting Fred

[BlueBloodedToffee]

288 is Malcolm and 442 is Irrelephant...

Also, if your reads haven't changed over 800 posts you're probably doing something wrong. Or scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That is literally the only things he has done that has given me pause in my read.

The rest of the game he has sheeped CW and Irrelephant and barely produced anything original. He was also very quickly on board the Loft wagon as soon as his name started getting mentioned.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Irrelephant, you have given 0 opinion on my push on Fred.

It's becoming a major part of the game. You should probably comment on it as we're running out of time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CW, why were you reading Loftwing as town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll explain my Loftwing read after CW explains why they were reading them as town

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fancy, was CWs read on Loft purely meta?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CW, talk about Loftwing read more please

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ready for the fantastic explanation for my Loftwing town read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Fancy Pants

(you're going to) Die, Scum! (But thankfully I have an escape from this planet with my rocket ship!)

I thought this was a soft that they were a Commuter. So. Yeah.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see no town reasons for hiding the rest of the claim now. Also, unless the other ability is very specific, my town read on Loft is not as strong.

Which is why I posted this

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fancy MVP

VOTE: Gamma

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gamma has had more than enough time to respond to this game and he has had the opportunity to do so.

Can we get this moving?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have nothing more to add.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He has had plenty of time and is very clearly avoiding the game so as to not give away his buddy.

Please. Let's move this on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm astonished you don't think 3 days is long enough for someone to at leastg acknowledge they're in the game.

They would have been due a prod a while ago as well

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, but like, Gamma could have posted you know? He has been online numerous times and has not posted here.

The only reason that would be because of is due to the fact they know their caught and it's simply wasted energy.

They have had plenty of opportunities to post and simply haven't taken them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will get to this as soon as I can.

Probably tomorrow night

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd vote out the Kenny slot before a replacement is even found I'm that confident he is scum

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Kenny

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is there really a harm in waiting.
Like jesus.
At least with vig shot we have 4 town kills so if bbt is scum openscumming we still have a lock lmao

LOL. Cute.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Let's not go down silly rabbit holes.

I'm town. Irrelephant, why wouldn't I town read someone for potentially being Commuter?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because commuter is NAI. It has scum utility to hide from investigations or vigilantes

It is? I can't say I have ever seen a scum Commuter so if that's true then that's my bad.

It does make sense now that you've said it though :shrug:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT what do you think of cw’s case on Lowell?

I haven't read it.

I just thought we would elim Kenny and win the game so I haven't really been following too closely

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dunnstral! You should claim or find scum you’re at E-1 I think. At the very least you’re the main target and basically everyone is willing to vote you except CW

UNVOTE: because Enchant loves to lolhammer

Oh no, someone might hammer your scum read?

Wait...where is the problem?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi CW and Enchant, can we not shit post please? Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just meant the last page or so

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That was probably an unfair comment actually so I apologise.

Can't really say more but yeah, I'm at my limit with shit posting and thread flooding.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm stunned you think Kenny is town CW

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nice, you found something from 4 years ago which proves... What exactly?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You should probably focus on the people pushing you harder than myself.

Especially given you think I'm scum so my opinion really shouldn't matter to you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The way I see it:

Irrelephant accuses you of being a mafia rolecop in 1574
You push back with 1575

But 1575 is not a natural opinion for you to have. You do not hav ea natural thought process here. That is what it proves.

What would a natural thought process be?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, you're linking a game I played 4 years ago.

I stopped playing not long after that game and I have only been playing again for approx 2 months.

Are you saying I am scum for having a bad memory?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, they were scum who were not commuter

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It feels like you have come into this game with an agenda.

Just saying.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The person who I thought could be Commuter is dead.

They were scum who were a Neighbourizer.

Scum back up role cop implies that scum have a role cop, sure.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You have a strange definition for scum claiming.

But I'll let you do your thing.

You acting like you haven't checked who I thought was Commuter and who flipped what etc is laughable.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Dunn

Just to double down on this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I also didn't town read a Commuter claim from someone I was scum reading.

I town read what I thought was a soft for a Commuter claim because I didn't think scum could be Commuters and I wouldn't expect scum to soft something like that in their very first post.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't get mad at you for calling me scum? I just didn't understand your 180.

Dunn has come in with a scum!BBT agenda and I think that's clear to see. How does not remembering I scum read a Commuter claim 4 years ago make me scum in this game? He's also compared two completely different situations as if they're the same - that's scummy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How do I look bad from this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK. I avoid voting someone I thought was town and provided a case on someone I thought was scum.

Instead of going through all that effort, why not just vote the CW to Loft if I'm scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

I'm probably going to have to read this game properly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So rather than just vote Lowell I decided to create an entire case on somebody else and just cross my fingers that it would go through?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't say the claim was town indicative.

In fact, I said the opposite. I said he should full claim and if the full claim wasn't very specific then my town read was not as strong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Lowell

Guy is completely disengaged from the game and just AtE'd hard.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

Pedit - I like your posts. I'll actually put some effort into this game today. Lowell's recent posting is horrific though so he should probably do something if he is town

I unvoted Dunn because his posting looked good on entrance and I wanted to give him time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

In relation to Dunn, I'm specifically referencing his VCA and analysis. Not his bad push on me, obv.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not the low effort for why they're scummy though.

It's the lack of game-solving going on and the huge AtE post that they just did, too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He hasn't engaged with any of CWs posts at all

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Loft's read on Kenny was weird and so was their read on CW.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Now that you mention it, kenny hasn't said anything of substance despite saying many things.

VOTE: kennyk

UNVOTE: Kennyk

I like their recent posting, it feels a lot better than before.

This read felt weird at the time and it still feels weird now. I don't understand why Loft's read changed on Kenny and I don't really know how to interpret it. Is it Town!Kenny and Loft doesn't want to be there as pressure builds. Or is it scum!Kenny and Loft is worried the Kenny wagon is gaining momentum?

Loftwing what do you think about Confidently Wrong?

Currently they have little credibility in my eyes, and I don't trust a word that comes from their fingers. I would be willing to throw a vote down on them should the current wagons cease to prevail.

Loft basically slams CW into the ground here. Despite feeling pretty strongly about CW, they don't want to vote there unless current wagons dismantle (reminder to check wagons at this point as I'm phone posting)

What're your reads, Loft?

Town

Fredrick A Campbell
Confidently Wrong
---
Cat Scratch Fever
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Irrelephant11
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Malakittens
---
kennyk
FancyPants
Eiralox

Scum

I know a large chunk of time passes between the two reads but there is 0 acknowledgement of CW going from 'wouldn't trust a word they say' to almost their top town read.

Cw,

why

am I town?

Do scum do this? Basically ask their scum buddy to town case them? I'm not sure.

This is the entirety of Loft's mentions of CW.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Loftwing what do you think about Confidently Wrong?

Currently they have little credibility in my eyes, and I don't trust a word that comes from their fingers. I would be willing to throw a vote down on them should the current wagons cease to prevail.

OK, so at the time of this post we had Lowell with 3 votes and Kenny with 2. They were the only real wagons being pushed discussed in thread.

Loft was on neither of these as he had recently unvoted Kenny. So why did he use the current wagons as an excuse to not vote for CW who he felt quite strongly about at that time?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah exactly.

Loft goes from not trusting a word CW says (but not voting them) to CW being their town read with no acknowledgement of how or why it happened.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It explained why there was nothing of substance in terms of reads, because there was nothing in terms of reads. In terms of general thoughts, there is substance in their earlier posts.

So you vote Kenny for lack of substance despite lots of words. Then you unvote because Kenny confirms lots of words with no reads but that suddenly you found substance to his posts in the form of general thoughts. Why didn't these general thoughts matter before?

Shoshin's push on Loft regarding voting/unvoting Kenny prob makes Kenny town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum can be neighbourizer, but as you say, it's usually town aligned.

I see no town reasons for hiding the rest of the claim now. Also, unless the other ability is very specific, my town read on Loft is not as strong.

Either way, can we not do Loft today? Fred or Malcolm are juicy, no? Also, Fred jumping on the Loft wagon as his name starts being spoken about as a potential elim looks fishy, no?

Irrelephant, are you ignoring this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd vote out the Kenny slot before a replacement is even found I'm that confident he is scum

BBT can you go over your scumread of Kenny and whatever read you have on CW?

I had an early scum read of Kenny from early game and it never really changed.

However, upon flips it looks like Kenny has been cleared by Shoshin pushing Loft on his vote/unvote of Kenny. Which you would have seen if you had read my posts? I don't actually think Kenny is scum anymore and I think the last one could actually be CW.

I need to go over Shoshin's ISO

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, if I'm completely honest, I thought the no-kill (?) tied in with Kenny being super inactive was just a dead giveaway?

Reflecting on this, I think Mod would have extended deadline if this were the case though? I guess scum could have shot Mala as well as Vig, but meh, I don't see it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This is terrible ^

Like pulling teeth around here. Let’s all call a guy useless and scummy and do nothing.

Cool.

Unrelated: BBT is scum

Dudes loft posted 8 times in the last day and a half, listing all his suspects, what exactly you want from him? Vote him or don’t. BBT is scum, eira is probably town, I have this read in my head and can’t shake it now.

CW, can you talk about why Scum!Lowell makes these posts please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm stunned you think Kenny is town CW

You wrote this based on an early game scumread you hadn’t thought about since d1?

I see that you’re now saying Kenny could be town, I’m trying to understand the basis for what seemed like a very very strong scumread on Kenny that you had until Dunn repped in. To understand your mindset

Sometimes I overstate reads. My previous reasons still apply. Dunn helped me to reeval the slot, sure. As did rereading the ISOs of flipped scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK CW, but elimming scum D1 is genuinely awful for scum's overall odds of winning the game. So, it seems suicidal for scum!Lowell to insist on a Loft lim, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fine. I’ll be white-knighting scumBBTs errand boy if it gets us a vote.

vote Fred

I guess this ship has sailed, but man does that ever seem like a fake-claim. Never heard of a neighborizer—why would it exist in a mini.

Now this could come from Scum!Lowell

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My initial D2 thoughts based on what I can remember:

Towns: Irrel, Fancy, Kenny
Nulls: BBT, Malcolm, Eira
Scums: Gamma, Mala, CW

Nevermind I see now that was Eira, not kenny. In that case I'll join the wagon, and you can reverse kenny and eira on my previous list.

unvote, vote kenny

???

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK but there were 3 scum alive at the time. Why would a Lowell scum read take precedence over a Loftwing scum read for example?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lowell, 1803 if you could please

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CW, 1809 if you could please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why does Lowell just overrule his team in terms of having to kill the person who is scum reading him. Instead of say the person who was scum reading Loft who was in a much more dangerous position of potentially being elimmed on D2.

Then, not only does he get his kill, he then starts to bus his buddy for absolutely no reason. In what world does scum!Lowell think he can get to end game here?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: BBT

Lowell I’m spinning out, yes. But honest question - do you still scumread the Kenny slot? I felt confident it was Kenny and now I don’t and I feel lost. My current best guess is BBT who, when he couldn’t get the Kenny miselim anymore, started “sorting”

What are you doing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you stop it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Lowell, can you look at 1803 and talk to me about what happened in those two posts?

Also, when did I become town and when did Malcolm become town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah but you said to switch their places and one was town and one was null.

So why were you voting a null read over 3 scum reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It kind of is because you were scum reading me at end of D1 and nothing really happened D2 that should have changed that

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You'll pretty much vote anyone if there is a consensus.

That's what am getting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see.

So if we all shut up, you'll provide something? As opposed to coasting?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And just to be clear...

The last scum is... Because....

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CW is giving off serious LAMIST vibes right now

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lowell you didn't answer my last post!

Dunn refusing to put work in. How fun.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: CW

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CW, I'm sorry but your Lowell scum read literally makes 0 sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why does Lowell just overrule his team in terms of having to kill the person who is scum reading him. Instead of say the person who was scum reading Loft who was in a much more dangerous position of potentially being elimmed on D2.

Then, not only does he get his kill, he then starts to bus his buddy for absolutely no reason. In what world does scum!Lowell think he can get to end game here?

Hey bbt this u

Yes, it's me saying why Lowell isn't scum...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lowell also kept pushing for Loft despite the consensus moving away from him. It literally makes 0 sense

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CW, I'm saying you are scum because of your bad push on Lowell.

Pedit - Lowell doesn't need to push Loft so hard. A scum lim on D1 drastically reduces scum's chances of winning. The consensus was moving away from Loft and Lowell insisted on staying on him. It really doesn't make sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I want to know what BBT thought of Shoshin/later Gamma slot early on. There's not that much about Shoshin in BBT's ISO (understandable if town given minimal content) but still, the teaming potentially works a bit better than CW/Gamma, which is giving me slight pause more than any of CW's repetitive appeals to emotion.

I can't say I had too much of an opinion. They weren't very active

I do remember Irrelephant town reading Shoshin and then saying nobody should have a good read on Shoshin without meta which I thought was weird.

In fact, I probably need to reread Irrelephant.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, but Irrelephant was also super confident in being able to read Shoshin based off meta

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Malcolm, can we not do this?

Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Irrelephant, talk about how I'm scum

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Irrelephant,

Can you explain why I'm scum?

Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, sure. But who hasn't?

I've also recently started wondering about Irrelephant who doesn't seem viable but I'll probably still ISO read him anyway

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK.

Things are getting interesting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i already figured out the vig from context clues starting d1 and having the vig confirmed via the night 1 kill sooooooooooooooooooooo

This is funny

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Outing Vig doesn't help scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is your scum read on me based solely on my push on Fred? Because that seems silly. I understand in terms of diverting attention away from Loft, which it absolutely did, but I don't understand why you think scum!BBT does that instead of just voting Lowell?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So what?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think Fred died instead of loft for two reasons:
- scum were pushing Lowell and Fred as loft alternatives
- I picked Fred to die over Lowell when everyone was appealing to me for my & shoshin’s votes

Loft was the scum helping the Lowell wagon
Fred wagon having scum before I joined means it’s you, cw, or Lowell

Lowell is v towny for a million reasons we’ve gone over a bunch

Therefore: I want to lim you or cw. I pick you because I think cw has been sorting and you’ve been hiding

Fred wasn't really being considered until I posted a case. I could easily have just voted Lowell instead or even Eira and pushed there instead. Scum!BBT had no reason to try and form a wagon from pretty much nothing. I had much easier options.

I can't check compositon of Fred wagon as I'm phone posting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What makes you think Fred wagon had scum on before you joined? That doesn't make sense?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That’s the main reason I find you scummy but there are other reasons:

- After Kenny, the worst associatives with flipped scum
- When dunnstral replaced in, you’re “I’m so confident Kenny is scum I don’t need to hear from the replacement” went away and you instead said it was a good entrance because other people said so
- You seem as aimless as me but without the panic
- Refusal to play D2 after Shoshin was caught (no desire to out reads in case you were NKed?)
- Over-explained why you townread loft when no one asked

After Kenny kind of negates your first point entirely. I can't disagree about associatives with Loft. But there are none with Shoshin.

Dunn seemed decent on replace in so I wanted to give him time. He hasn't done a whole lot since though.

Right. I didn't want to share reads in case I was NKed. That's absolutely right.

I explained my town read on Loft because I wondered why CW was town reading them and if it matched my own reasons.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Irrelephant, why are you so sure Fred wagon had scum on before you joined?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That doesn't really make sense, does it?

Because the wagon happened really quickly so trying to analyse it in that way simply doesn't work.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because it's not like scum would have had time to plan moves. I don't understand why you're so set on scum not following scum onto Lowell. Like, that absolutely could be a thing.

You're wrong about it being more likely to be me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, but I'm telling you it absolutely was an option instead of producing a whole new case on somebody else but you're not listening.

3rd scum could easily have had no time to react. Or they could be on it. I don't understand how you're differentiating between the two.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I cannot wait for you to see my flip and realise I legit just forgot that scum could be Commuter.

It's a role I just town read and I didn't see scum softing something like that in advance.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't want to die.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I also didn't town read a Commuter claim from someone I was scum reading.

I town read what I thought was a soft for a Commuter claim because I didn't think scum could be Commuters and I wouldn't expect scum to soft something like that in their very first post.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Irrelephant, I made the same point in this post? So why is it only towny now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you think it’s cw or dunnstral

CW.

I think Shoshin pushing Loft on his vote/unvote of the Kenny slot probably makes them town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It explained why there was nothing of substance in terms of reads, because there was nothing in terms of reads. In terms of general thoughts, there is substance in their earlier posts.

So you vote Kenny for lack of substance despite lots of words. Then you unvote because Kenny confirms lots of words with no reads but that suddenly you found substance to his posts in the form of general thoughts. Why didn't these general thoughts matter before?

Shoshin's push on Loft regarding voting/unvoting Kenny prob makes Kenny town.

This probably means Town!Kenny, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lowell really doesn't make sense.

Shoshin push on Loft to revote Kenny prob makes them town as well?

So, yeah, that leaves CW.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So everyone is a shit tunneling townie now?

How cute.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you're the only one who really makes sense as scum here?

Except maybe Irrelephant.

CW, pretend for a moment that myself and Lowell are town. Where is scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Kenny is cleared from the Shoshin/Loft interaction.

I'm sure you were dead certain that Kenny was spewed town as well. Has that changed now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Vote me over kenny if youre going to vote someone rn. Im not letting kenny slot go over without speaking.
VOTE: confidently wrong
Go right fucking ahead i know you want to so bad.

What changed?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That didn't answer my question?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you acted like Dunn could be your first choice after a mass claim so that's not strictly true, is it?

You were also willing to die for that read, so yeah, excuse me questioning why that has changed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Tell me more

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Doc + Vig + BP? Is that plausible?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah I get that, so I guess Doc makes sense to counter Vig.

Hmm, that's interesting. Would explain the single kill as well

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What is the current VC?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not scum.

I can see why some people might think it because Fred wagon countered the Loft wagon but that's just my bad for putting too much stock into what I thought was an early soft.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your #1 option (Lowell) literally made 0 sense which is why I was trying to get you to look elsewhere.