Mini Normal 2296: Pictures of my cat, sometimes | GAME OVER

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Flippy for lack of random vote and for saying "1st".

Hey, DeasVail, Dessew, Malakittens. Which of you should I be sheeping?

Hi! I reckon Mala seems to know what they’re doing.

VOTE: shea

Is this how you do it?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Dessew

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Dessew

Unless this isn't random?

Not random, but also based off very little information. In thinking about who could be mafia based off the early posts, Dessew seemed a decent fit, but I don’t have more explanation than that right now.

[DeasVail]

But we dont

I’m surprised that you’re taking emperor’s reads so seriously given that you voted Shea.

I thought you would be more tolerant of a non-serious start?

[DeasVail]

college is scum tho

do you think the opening posts are faked?

[DeasVail]

And I was planning on being around after I did that...

Do you think that being around after your joke vote was significant in any way?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Malakittens

[DeasVail]

@Mala: Splendid! That's all in order, so you can be leanTown, for now.

@Dessew: Whom are you asking about redFF and bristep? Because it looks like you're asking redFF.

Sorry, I meant to ask you (and to quote #105).
I'm on my phone, and it seems it got a little too crowded on my screen to notice the mistake, my bad!

Nothing from them has pinged me negatively, thus far. I think bri may be jumping to conclusions, but we'll see how that goes. As for redFF, I get where he's coming from, even if I'm agnostic on Tchill's alignment at this time. I'd say bri is still at null, redFF maybe leaning slightly town.

How about you? Any reads you'd like to share?

@DV: Why is Mala scum? Is there anyone else who is, as well?

Looking at Mala's posts so far, we have 46 and 96 which are each just throwing light shade at individuals without really furthering the discussion or demonstrating any signs of active thinking about the issue.

The most that we get out of Mala is in 110 which is an oddly detailed explanation of their thought process on a trivial vote in response to a question, particularly considering that Mala has chosen to not share much in the way at all in regards to her reads or thoughts on the game implied in their earlier posts.

[DeasVail]

As for who else, tchill might(?) be scum. I'm not convinced yet, as the ongoing posting about the issue could (in my mind) be stubborn townie rather than caught scum. I am still thinking on it.

Fwiw I didn't particularly think that College was scum.

[DeasVail]

Mala at the moment I think you’re scum for reasons unrelated to meta, fwiw

[DeasVail]

Hmmm I have concerns about Mitillos, particularly the free pass on Mala and the reaction to Dessew, and I was in the process of writing up a post about why I suspected him for these things, but the degree of projected confidence makes me hesitate slightly.

Statements like “But hey, I'll give you a chance to convince me I'm wrong.” and “I'll even be nice enough to not touch the reads you said you don't want to go into” make me wonder whether scum would actually go ahead with posting stuff like that (before deciding that it’s a bad idea). It could be a way of scum intentionally appearing confident but I’m not sure.

Also Dessew, I’m keen to talk about the redFF read. What gives you the impression that their push on tchill is from mafia rather than being proactive in their own way?

PEdit: Mitillos, do you think that Dessew as scum would have predicted that people would notice the illogical nature of having 2 players who hadn’t posted at opposite ends of their reads list?

[DeasVail]

I’d love to say I’m busy, but I’m just forgetful. Enchant has come in and taken my, stated they’ve not read up on the game and then put a random vote in - then went silent. Technically so did everyone else (silence, not random votes) but I’m happy to leave my vote where it is for now.

What do you think is the reason scum would be more likely to do that than town?

[DeasVail]

I’d love to say I’m busy, but I’m just forgetful. Enchant has come in and taken my, stated they’ve not read up on the game and then put a random vote in - then went silent. Technically so did everyone else (silence, not random votes) but I’m happy to leave my vote where it is for now.

What do you think is the reason scum would be more likely to do that than town?

What did you hope to achieve with this question?

To get an understanding of bristep’s thought process. Enchant is someone that is really easy to call scum due to lack of post content, but I expect town to be more likely to think about why, rather than scum who will be more likely to accept a “that’s bad = scum” explanation.

VOTE: t3

Miltos is town
Dv is misguided town

Specifically saying that I’m misguided is interesting. Should I be reading you as town based on your play so far?

[DeasVail]

I also really like the point in 216 about Dessew not questioning the votes on college and DEB.

Consider my vote spiritually there

[DeasVail]

Deasveil - my thought process is that I’m speculating without experience, first game since late 2018 and I haven’t played regularly since 2012.

The points about Dessew sway me, so let’s push them to 5.

VOTE: Dessew

I actually liked your initial response to me, it’s all good

[DeasVail]

Then you look at his most recent post, asks about College's vote on DEB. Town doesn't ask this question. I honestly can't see what you guys can, because his posts have been imo null at best

in this situation, where multiple people who you think are town believe that Mitillos is town and are feeling partial to the case on you, why do you become more convinced of Mitillos being scum, rather than question your view of the game?

[DeasVail]

Btw I’m still very suspicious of Mala but am okay with a Dessew elimination for today

[DeasVail]

VOTE: T3

I will have a bit more to post during my tonight but I prefer this over Dessew

[DeasVail]

On Dessew: I'm not confident in them being town, but I am a bit more hesitant than I was a little while ago. The sheer openness regarding their theory about Emperor crumbing neighbor with DEB feels less likely from mafia (who would more likely not let on that they're thinking about that sort of thing), plus the posting about Mitillos is more and more feeling like a townie convinced of something appealing to the rest of the town, rather than scum trying to save face. I wouldn't put Dessew among my most confident townreads, but I think I would prefer to not eliminate there right now.

T3 is someone I just wasn't thinking about at all before his name got brought into the mix, and that might be saying something. Looking over his posts, they are mostly about himself, and the others do not provide convincing evidence of T3 trying to progress his reads. Where's the follow-up on 208, for example? And in a gamestate where one of T3's townreads (Dessew) was looking in danger of elimination, why stay on the "placeholder" DEB vote?

[DeasVail]

I am personally okay with still eliminating T3

[DeasVail]

Tchill, why do you think Enchant is scum, specifically?

[DeasVail]

Fair, I guess I’m trying to understand why that slot is more appealing than the other lurky slots

[DeasVail]

I don’t particularly like the roleclaim change

[DeasVail]

My preference is still T3, but I’ll be here before deadline to change if needed

[DeasVail]

Eh, T3 is obviously town and I can’t blame him too hard for the DEB shot. It’s not like DEB was a claimed mason.

I’m planning to have a re-look through Day 1 later today and update my reads, but I expect that I’ll still think Mala is scum?

[DeasVail]

Not to speak for Drew, but I can tell you why I think you're wrong. Dessew clearly believed that Flippy, by coming in and pretty much immediately saying that DEB was confTown, was basically claiming mason (as seen in post 258). Given that Dessew believed this (and presumably that everyone else believed it as well), it would make sense that as scum he would want to kill both Flippy and DEB, since this means he believed they would never be voted out. Imagine getting to LyLo and having to deal with 2 confTown. No mafia would want that.

It makes perfect sense for Dessew to kill his townreads, if he expects them to be treated as confTown by everyone.

How much of this is influenced by our knowledge now that DEB was a mason, which scum wouldn’t have known at the time of deciding their kill?

[DeasVail]

I'm fairly comfortable with kop, Tchill, Mitillos, T3 and redFF all being town.

Doctor Drew also seems to me possibly less likely to be scum? Staying on the Enchant wagon from Kawaii's vote whilst not actually saying anything about Enchant feels like a missed opportunity, and I feel that scum would be more likely to feel self-conscious about an unexplained vote on a buddy. More likely from someone that just... didn't know that Enchant was scum.

Mala, Dessew and Bristep all feel quite possible to me, and Mala's vote on Enchant feels like the most likely to be a bus vote from scum trying to be on the wagon.

Also Mala not realising that T3 could shoot N1 could possibly explain why scum chose to not kill T3, who would inevitably be confirmed as town after their shot? Is it bad of me to be thinking like that?

VOTE: Malakittens

[DeasVail]

Mala and Tchill were very town on the Enchant wagon. They were the ones who made it a viable elimination when I was actually the number 2 choice after T3, there's no reason to do that as mafia.

Why Mala, and not Kop?

[DeasVail]

Eh I think I want to vote Dessew, the latest post has a lot of focus on what about them “looks bad” and what doesn’t, which I think is more likely a priority for scum, but I’m also trying to work out the viability of Mala and Dessew being scum together

[DeasVail]

Eh I think I want to vote Dessew, the latest post has a lot of focus on what about them “looks bad” and what doesn’t, which I think is more likely a priority for scum, but I’m also trying to work out the viability of Mala and Dessew being scum together

Talk to me about Mala, I actually feel town about them. This is a bit of recency bias, and how I said I feel like they would be more invested as scum, or a least paying more attention.

Oh I’ve seen games where Mala has been scum and played exactly like this. Which is why I don’t think their lack of investment is town-indicative

[DeasVail]

Mala has promised to be obvtown and I’ll hold them to that promise

[DeasVail]

viewtopic.php?t=89933

My most recent experience with Mala-scum

[DeasVail]

That is me not believing that it’s going to happen

What did you think that progression was?

[DeasVail]

Also why is your townread on Mala “recency bias”? What have they done recently?

[DeasVail]

I just feel their posts today wouldn't come from scum.

Can you expand on this? I’m not convinced that your townread on Mala is real

[DeasVail]

Regarding self-hammers, someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I believe Enchant as a player has a reputation for always hammering, even on himself

[DeasVail]

I would agree with that, and I’m not basing the entirety of my suspicion on Mala on that. I also am still questioning my read there and trying to reconsider other options, but I’m still happy with Drew being town (I questioned the authenticity of their read on Mala but I think their responses to me make sense and are believable to me) and apart from Dessew there’s no one else who I think is thaaat likely to be scum.

Regarding the night kill, it is just a bit odd to me that T3 wasn’t killed. Obviously he wasn’t roleblocked, and it was public knowledge by the end of Day 1 that he had a N1 shot, which scum would have known would happen and confirm him as town.

But, in a world where Mala is scum, I could see it being more likely that T3 would survive, even if the other scum member was aware of the updated claim. It’s all just relative likelihood imo.

[DeasVail]

I intend to vote for bristep, but will wait for a vote count

[DeasVail]

and apart from Dessew there’s no one else who I think is thaaat likely to be scum

I intend to vote for bristep, but will wait for a vote count

That was quick, because I have been on Dess’s wagon since D1 apart from a wobble at the start of today. So you’re now saying that either Dess is town, or somehow we’re buddies despite my activity towards them?

Your recent posting changed my mind

[DeasVail]

I didn’t ask your reasoning because clearly my activity was what changed your mind, either current or historic - I would like some comment on my questions though. Are you now saying that you read Dess as town?

I haven’t devoted full thought to the viability of you and Dessew being scum together, but the reason for me expressing my intention to vote you is that I think you’re less likely to be town than Dessew.

Will post more on this later today.

[DeasVail]

I didn’t ask your reasoning because clearly my activity was what changed your mind, either current or historic - I would like some comment on my questions though. Are you now saying that you read Dess as town?

I haven’t devoted full thought to the viability of you and Dessew being scum together, but the reason for me expressing my intention to vote you is that I think you’re less likely to be town than Dessew.

Will post more on this later today.

If you think bristep is more likely to be mafia than me, then you also mathematically must think that there's a possibility that bristep is mafia and I'm town. What would scum!bristep's motivation be for defending me at the start of D2 then, when there wasn't even a wagon on me?

Okay so I looked back at this because I didn't remember bristep defending you, and from my perspective.. they didn't really? I think the most correct interpretation is that they expressed doubt about their scumread of you, with the caveat that they are rusty, and then proceeded to vote for you anyway.

And then that makes me think that maybe you are defending bristep in order to draw the "but why would Dessew as scum defend bristep-town here?" reasoning, because you think it is something that people should read as town.

(Or you're just scum together which remains possible imo)

[DeasVail]

Regarding Bristep:


What renewed my suspicion of them was that the way that they talk about what they would/would not do as scum... feels very confident for someone who is also using the fact that they haven't played a game in ages and are rusty to explain away suspicion on them. 435 is a fairly detailed speculation on what Bristep would be thinking as mafia, but how do they even know what they would be thinking as mafia if they are so rusty from not having played a game in 5-10 years, as they claim in 432? This also kind of applies to 519 where bristep implies that their "activity towards" Dessew would not occur if they were buddies. Again, how does someone who says they're struggling due to be rusty know how they would be acting/not acting as scum?
I don't think Bristep is lying about being rusty, just using it to explain away suspicion of them more than they would as town, and I think that the theorising on what they would/wouldn't do as scum is because they are actually scum and have thus put thought into this.


505 was also a weird post that set off alarm bells for me because they spend more time arguing against the townread on themselves than the townread on me, plus the approach to Dessew here is strange because it doesn't seem to be coming from a place of thinking that Dessew's inappropriate townreads on Bristep/me is scum whiteknighting (despite Dessew being a prime suspect of Bristep's). I would expect Bristep as town suspecting Dessew in that position to see this as Dessew trying to pocket them, but instead it's like Bristep is just arguing the logic of the townread and that's it. ---> I think this is something that scum will do for the "but why would I argue against a townread on me as scum?" argument.

VOTE: bristep123

[DeasVail]

All that said, Dessew could very much still be scum and I don't have confident-enough reasons to townread them to campaign against that wagon, I just prefer Bristep for scum.

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dessew

Time to get things moving

[DeasVail]

Sounds about right. Any reason you didn't announce that, DV?

I wasn’t really thinking about it

[DeasVail]

To be completely honest, my main goal with the post was to get in before 36 hours

[DeasVail]

Also it feels like we’re going in circles around 3 main options and I’m ready to just move on one of them

[DeasVail]

I intend to vote drew

[DeasVail]

I will wait until kop has posted before voting

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

My best guess for other scum is Bristep

[DeasVail]

For what it’s worth though, I indeed did not go anywhere N1

[DeasVail]

Tchill, I think it makes most sense to believe redFF at this point and I personally am completely okay with them withholding other details

[DeasVail]

T3 do you still have the ability to shoot?

[DeasVail]

In any case, I think it makes sense for me to reveal myself as the other mason

[DeasVail]

My thought was actually that it was bristep that was scum and so it's interesting that T3 has the opposite opinion.

When I have a bit more time I'm going to sit down and go over everything to clarify my read and then explain it.

[DeasVail]

yeah that's the reason for my caution. I feel like there is too much town power and so a bulletproof mafia would make... a bit of sense and why I don't want to just eliminate whoever.

Mafia doctor (or similar) also seems possible to me and obviously would suit us a lot better, but I don't want to rely on it.

[DeasVail]

Believe me I did triple check to make sure there couldn't be a serial killer

[DeasVail]

In looking through things tonight I am more conflicted. Sorry to be keeping people waiting.

T3, I would agree that the Bristep vote on Doctor Drew, occurring before the RedFF guilty claim, is a bit strange from scum, but after the previous day, scum could have quite reasonably thought it would be bristep eliminated that day, so there would be a need to set up some distancing.

What stands out to you that makes a Bristep/Drew team less likely?

[DeasVail]

But you already knew this going into d4 and you went after me initially. It wasn’t until yesterday that you suddenly pivoted onto T3. I’ll hear this out though, and I’ll say myself I’m VT. DV do you want to put your cards on the table and reveal your role as well? Feels like we’re at that point.

I said I was the other mason.

If you missed that, why did you vote for tchill instead of considering me as scum?

[DeasVail]

I kind of want to know what tchill is claiming but will probably vote tchill

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Tchill13

[DeasVail]

Yeah I think if red died n2 it would have been a real struggle for town

[DeasVail]

My reads were not good