Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[Morning Tweet]

[Morning Tweet]

before deciding to join I had been tracking the last few pages for a little bit nothing too serious. I started writing my notes as soon as i decided to replace in. So in other words I started reading earlier this morning, before I confirmed my PM tonite, take that as you might. Here is my long review of end of d3 and onwards. If there was something important before there, i wouldnt object to getting a few hints as to where to look

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Starting from around end of d3 (i think) when mena dies.

Interesting coincidence that skygazer decides to end Mena when the Gera wagon is getting serious. Could have just been when she got online

Correct, Klick. Absolutely filthy hammer

I somwhat believe Gimli claiming he would have killed Mena sooner

Mena is simultaneusly kind of coming off like he trusts Klick but was also paranoid

3824, Gimli, why are you suggesting sacrificing yourself (or Gera) at 4v3 Xylo?

3843 I guess finding Sky's entrance adorably townie made you not want to lim Sky immediately

3844 Klick is also giving Sky a chance so its kind of... weird that Sky would throw away town equity like that? Did she feel pressured to vote to save Gera? I'm using all 5 of my brain cells to point out the most obvious possible conclusion I suppose

Ugh if someone doesh't get it:
Skygazer claims visiting Gimli, but Gimli didn't see Detective visit.

One of them is lying.

enchant is a god amongst mere mortals

I think if Gera is town would you really need to have Sky try to claim bs on Gimli. Why start a 1v1 with Gimli rather than Gera who everyone including yesterwagon was on board with

So the 155th page probably spews Gimli as town from this point on

This is very interesting

If I squint really hard this almost could sound deflated at Sky fucking up the mech. This is how I would react when I dont know what to say and am buying for more time

its klick

klick/gera/sky

Were you thinking that too???

Okay, it was also about Klick going to Enchant. I dont know the context well enough to say if that's odd but it is weird that klick rather than giving an opinion went to see what enchant thought first

..

Klicks' followup isnt bad

sky is outed
gera is nearly outed fmpov, I hope people can interact with what I said about that

I've been clearing you cause you defended kawaii that was basically it

but you've been shielding sky and gera as well

and uhm its just the team that makes the most sense

I also heavily dislike your posting rn. why are you asking enchant for his gut reactions? what about your gut reactions? you seriously think I'm lying? I don't think you'd think I'm lying.

You know that the options are you vs Sky
You know that it's LyLo and I have reason to at least be a little skeptical before jumping to the conclusion that Sky is scum

I'm asking Enchant for his gut reactions to try and get a sense of how he's viewing this situation
I'm not giving my gut reactions because no one has asked for them and I don't think it's beneficial at this time

What's weird about trying to get reads out of this situation? Isn't that what town should be doing here?

I'm surprised you come away from Hollow Knight MyLo thinking I'd be immediately open about my gut reactions in this situation.

You are perceptive though, you do already realise that I'm heavily considering the possibility of you being scum here

I mean, why would Sky ------- Ah, right, we didn't know Sky was scum yet. My bad. I supppooooossee it's fair to not immediately take a side, sure. Hindsight is a strong performance enchancer. I can't fully make a conclusion about whether Klick should have been more confident (3896)

Ausuka is kinda fooling me here (3893)

Gimlis going a little too hard on the sauce (3903 3905) I dont think Klick's reaction is unwarranted either way (3094).

I am a little unsure how Gimli came to the conclusion it is Klick quite as strongly as he did. 3912 is a very good point by gimli.

If you're town you're starting off this LyLo exactly the same as you did D9 in Hollow Knight and having the same effect of making sure I don't have sway in the thread.

I'm town. I don't see your town perspective in deciding I must be scum here.

I'm not shutting you down, I asked you who was more likely mafia and why and you said nothing.

Basically Klick rather than giving an opinion, he felt unconfident and also happened to ask for Enchants opinion. IT struck me as a little odd.

(((FUTURE MT: I get the idea was to see what Enchant would say because now with hindsight i can see Klick is currently suspecting or "suspecting" Enchant. Klick is not sure about the gamestate and is probing for more))))

I think Gimli is overplaying it but Klick feels a biiiiit too unsure (Even keeping ausuka as a possible suspect) COUNTEERPOINT though, Klick could just bus Sky and hard town the 3p like Mena predicted? Don't know. Gimlis invoking BOP i dont know if fair

The way Gimli argues he's town feels like it's coming from a place where it's quite obvious hes set in that meta, even if i cant actually fact check anything hes saying

fwiw I also didn't think the hammer was conclusive, but there's layers over layers of indicatives that skygazer is scum, from her f tier detective targets to the hammer to, well, I HAVE A RED ON HER (thanks ausuka) and I think you can just read that progression from me as towntelling from back when I read the result

I'm saying its relevant cause its literally what happened: i opened my pms saw that i was visited by invest and checked out with sky's claim. I didn't know what type of invest she was claiming to be clearly, it's one of these things you just don't really lie about... its easy to spot, klick.

as titus once said to dr drew, I'm trying not to be a tunnely asshole klick but my patience is running thin

I've not actually read that much into the claim dispute between yourself and Sky yet
I probably will try to draw my own conclusions from it another time
But I'm going to need a lot of concentration to do that because I get mixed up myself on role stuff really easily
Atm I'm sticking to what I know works

But Enchant himself summed it up rlly well!! This claim dispute felt lopsided ESPECIALLY COMING AFTER THAT HAMMER FROM SKY which i accidentally thought made everyone assume Sky is scum like I'm doing now with my hindsight.

HOLY FUCK its kawaii okay bye kwaii

page 160, nice shade on me sky, also Enchant is pointing out YET ANOTHER THING about Sky's claim that obvscumed it which was that apparently Sky targets a already claimed vig (as detective). I can forgive Klick for missing that at firzt though if that was there but now enchant's pointed it out this case feels more than bulletproof

Detective (check to see if a player has killed) on a player who claims to have shot people as vigilante. uhhh huhhh. Mmmmhhhhhhmmmmm

Star maybe weirdly TMI townreading my slot at top of page 161

enchants interactions with gimli point towards town enchant

one of their first posts was about them bussing each other and idk enchant real well but as much of a shittposter i am i would never be that brazen w a scum buddy

and their vote on them doesnt rlly feel like bussing to me

like a lot of the gimli/enchant feel like not partners to me

So my tinfoil assumption atm is that Gimli and Enchant are partners. I have the opposite read of their early-game interaction and think if Gimli is scum, his read on Enchant is determined by how likely he thinks it is to antispew him. The likelihood of a Gimli/Enchant partnership is a pretty large part of why I have Gimli open as potential scum.

My best guess at the scumteam atm is Gimli/Enchant/gera, with gera being big question marks

I arrive there largely through PoE

I think Ausuka is town
I think you are town
I think Kawaii is town

If I'm to think Gimli/Enchant/gera is not the scumteam it would necessitate rejection of one of those three being town

O_O

YOU"RE SCUMREADING ENCHANT AFTER HE POINTS ALL THAT SHIT OUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO nononono way

Gimli, I can understand maybe. Skygazer was wallposting and shit and Gimli was being a little hard. But Enchant? No youve gone too far now there are multiple people pointing out the glaring issues here

And Gera is coming back into the thread. If he sides with Klick I'm done. The read thru is over. We got this figured out.

so klick is 100% mafia

this is my honest reaction to the above quoted Klick posts

The way Ausuka is entertaining maybe Sky being town feeeels genuine. Questioning Enchant's claim of being roleblocked. But also pointing out Sky's bizarre night action choices.

Page 162 I'm pretty sure Ausuka is town

Screw that. I'm going to make my own assessment of the situation and I'm going to have my voice heard. If you're town, that's great, that means we're probably in a good spot going into today. But I'm going to investigate the alternative and say what I see and you're not going to bully the situation otherwise.

If you're town you need to understand that you're the only town player with full knowledge of the situation. You need to understand that it's important for town to keep their brains on and not happily skip along with the majority opinion without putting significant critical thought into the options available.

Whether you're town who really thinks I'm scum trying to manipulate the situation or you're scum trying to secure a win, you know these things really.

If you're town you've got significant reason to consider the possibility that I'm town who wants to make sure we get this right.

If you're town you should be very conscious of the fact that I have reason to be paranoid of losing to you again.

The things you're calling scum behaviour from me are how I think as town. You've seen them before, you're aware of how I act in this situation. That's why it's very concerning to me that your response in this situation is 'Klick is definitely scum

and I'm going to try to remove his platform today

.'

Town you doesn't fear me as either alignment. Scum you fears town me.

I believe that Klick is mafia, even though I don't necessarily disagree with anything that's being said. Some of this feels tailored to make Gimli doubt. I'm not sure I'm *seeing* Klick just investigating the alternative, it feels like Klick has to be ignoring some things about Sky.

Page 163 ENCHANT Is very towny here

I think Klick is trying to win the game with gera/Sky rather than have to participate in murdering them.

I think gera watching the discussion enough to know Sky is destroyed, but not having participated in that discussion, and then immediately voting sky, is telling
What I'm trying to say is that he didnt end up saying anything while most of the stuff was being hashed out (although i saw 1 post indicating he was there and he clearly is.) Waiting to see if Sky goes down or not, yes, probably

I disagree with Enchant that Klick is more likely to be town that's wrong, I don't see it

Klick mentions interactings he had with Gera on that day which would be weird as SvS theatre. I didn't see it, but I would be willing to see if you'd show me

you scumsided tf out of this gameday against all evidence and it was SO MUCH EVIDENCE

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Kinda skimming past a lot of mech stuff i dont understand

Cant believe Klick still think Enchant is a ssuspect

I was targeted by a blocking action and a protective action last night

I asked klick to target me and he either failed to do so twice now or he is lying and he is mafia

rn I think he is mafia

Do you want the true answer or do you want me to pretend I was roleblocked

With the true answer being 'I thought I submitted my visit to you at the start of the Night but I failed to do so, and defaulted to my list which had Ausuka at the top of it'

Do I even need to keep reading? You have to be aware that you reeealy reallly need to not mess up that night action because that last day looked kind of bad for you. I guess confirming your type of role isn't that big of a deal. At first I thought "Klick made the kill therefore no visit", forgot two scum. Still!!

gera dumbtelling pretty hard, nagl

I dont see it, is it the "you got roleblocked didn't you" comment?

I'm more confident in flipping gera today because skygazer saved him to hammer mena on d3.

i think i am being painted as scummy because of the way Sky hammered.
But if Sky is my partner, then why didn't they vote Menal here when they had every opportunity to do so and not make me look so bad.
The "evidence" against me is circumstantial at best - why not one player took any opportunity in the early game to check me when this always happens is annoying to say the least.

Vote Count 3.8

Menalque (4): geraintm, Comus, KawaiiKame, Enchant
KawaiiKame (3): Ausuka, Menalque, Gimli
Enchant (1): Skygazer

Not Voting (1): Klick

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline is April 4 at 3:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2023-04-04 18:00:00).

hahahai love the circumstantial at best line. if ur being painted then ur the sistine chapel of sus right now.

Your argument would require that Sky is a future teller? What if Sky had no intention of voting Mena, and wanted to stay off wagon and was gambling on that it would go through? Until her hand was forced. It's not "vote mena or vote mena while gera is a wagon", it's not nearly so black and white, you didnt even have any votes at the time, that kind of decision making it would require Sky knowing for certain you're a future wagon imminently on that day

basically both skygazer and klick were fine being offwagon when the concurrent wagons were town!mena and kawa

your argument - that if skygazer was your team mate, she'd hammer menalque over kawa - doesn't really make sense. skygazer hammered mena not when kawa was the counterwagon, but when you were the counterwagon.

but why would sky hammer to save me when it would implicate the pair of us, and not just sit there and let me go? they could have sacrificed me but instead they made sure that scum lost a player both the next nights?

While you're not wrong, it doesnt change that its scummy. And this is still a bottom of the drawer kind of defense, "Why play scummy when it will look scummy?" kind of makes me question what "scummy" even means anymore.

geraintm who do you think is scum?

You're too nice to your partners, I think

Ausuka is very obviously town top of page 173

Gimli I'm not fking scum.

I made a mistake. Engage with the reasoning that suggests that me forgetting actions is actually an entirely reasonable conclusion. Engage with the fact that I attempted to subvert scum expectations in Hollow Knight exactly hoe I attempted to subvert scum expectations here with my target on Kawaii instead of you.

You're not engaging with actual legitimate reasons that i am town here.

You made a few mistakes (as town). I would say you missed the very bad looking parts of Sky's claim and just said "I didnt read into the claims too much" -- if you listened to Enchant or Gimli screaming "Why the fuck u detective the vig"

Also, you're a compulsive visitor whose sole power is to prove you're not the killer, and you arent targetting Gimli which wouyld apparently confirm that. Twice.

I think you tinfoiling Enchant/Ausuka/Gimli throughout Sky and essentially giving Sky a chance might count as a third.

So that's where im at with why it feels SUPER far fetched beyond just making a mistake.

another reason to flip klick today is that I think skygazer wouldn't self vote if there was at least one townie hitting strongly at flipping me. since klick was arguing for that in the thread, she still obviously had a chance. all scum needed last gameday was one wrong townie.

Not if Kawaii was afk
Even if I got yesterday wrong they couldn't hammer with an afk Kawaii

I'm sorry you think I'm infallible as town
The main reason my thoughts started going to places like Comus and you is because no one was doing anything scummy
It turns out that scum weren't doing anything at all
But I was looking for people who could possibly wrongly convince me you were town and you and Comus were the main ones to come to mind

Maybe, but if Kawaii is town that explains why scum felt they could win with all three of them on that day. You would not have known Kawaii would go *poof* in advance. Makes it a little harder i guess if you're going after one of the active slots and one of the town voters is gone

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(dont worry that is the only long post)

[Morning Tweet]

take aways:

klick

- Klick almost certainly had to be willfully ignorant of something with regards to Skygazer's claim. I'm finding it hard to buy that Klick was tinfoiling/unconfident/exhausting all possibiltiies, whatever you like to call it, so hard as to err on the side of Enchant/Gimli possibly being the team (back when Sky was trying to stay alive). I don't really buy that.

- Also Klick fails to confirm role twice mistakenly which is a really strange coincidence although not in of itself damning

- I think Klick was trying to win the game with Gera/Sky, the way he interacts with both of them is very charitable. If i look ati t realllly, wayy too hard then it looks like Klick is trying to help them produce content in a lot of places. Sometimes maybe too much

also about gera

- if Gera is town, why does Skygazer pick a 1v1 with Gimli rather than with gera, who everyone on the previous day was on board with and would have been probably the most logical target for an investigator? Path of least resistance to an immediate win, am i missing anything? Just eliminate the previous day who was narrowly not eliminated ooo i dont get it why this mech failure thing

Am I considering Ausuka or Gimli being scum?

no
-

25ish pages that i did read

It's possible i missed something
-

the 150 pages that i didnt read

Gimli seems super unlikely considering Sky tries to pin the suspicion on Gimli/Enchant. and thats what Klick goes along with while gera ghosts the thread. Gera may be able to (truthfully) say he has never deviated from Kawaii/Klick at the bottom of his reads but he certainly wasnt there actively doing anything to show it

I just thought Ausuka was really obviously town with the way she reacted to the prior couple of days, I'll probably have to hash that one out more I guess

So, should be pretty clear where I'm at now I hope

Loose thread i might not have tied

I dont understand why Sky pretends to target Gimli with a detective shot in the first place, if gimli has a role which can confirm this to be false (and Sky is a goon). i generally think of this as just a mistake, I myself have outted myself for smaller dumb slip ups. Maybe forgot Gimli's role. Sky's fake log had a couple mistakes like that, considering the target on the vig.

[Morning Tweet]

It's also possible I have the timeframe on when Gimlis role was revealed versus Sky's claim and all that yada yada messed up so a lot of possible explanations for why Sky might have done that. It didnt seem like she was trying to claim a guilty, exactly? A strange mistake I think. I would appreciate help on that

okay, thats enough for now, you all can feel free to school me about how wrong I am

[Morning Tweet]

I started skimming towards the end were there specific questions for me or was it mostly 'Klick play bad = scum'

I think the second shorter post sums up my gripes more precisely

But, yes. Sort of. In a lot of ways. Not so much bad. I just think forgiving towards Sky.

[Morning Tweet]

Bet you were surprised to see red in your role PM

I thought I was going to be scum. Then i started reading the game, and I felt I was more likely town.

So I suppose my green didn't surprise me, to somewhat answer that question.

[Morning Tweet]

I remember playing as scum and MT replaced in on our team and looked, uh, the opposite of this

I'll have a look for myself later but does anyone know if activity is a pattern tell for her

I suspect most of her post was thoughts formed before she replaced in and knew her alignment

Correct

with the push behind the conclusions being the main influence of her role pm

Not correct. But I suppose we're at an impasse

[Morning Tweet]

btw MT I'm a VT

ausuka is a loud visionary, we've been coordinating so that I receive reports on who targeted me at night, both last night and the night before. that's why what happened last gameday with skygazer spews not only myself as town but also spews ausuka as town, cause it'd take minimal coordination between them not to spew sky scum in elo.

I'm not even factoring this in and independently believe Ausuka is obvious town and Klick is probably scum

Also that would explain why Klick doesn't target you twice probably I guess if he doesnt have a... what was it, I forgot the name of the role. The thing he claimed that doesnt have an obvious advantage to claim but its still odd that he doesnt do the one thing that his role can do which is confirm itself targetting

[Morning Tweet]

Gera isn't posting like someone who will lose the game when he flips

More precisely, gera is posting like someone who is ultimately expecting to get eliminated

and is fine with it

So we're all in agreement gera is scum here

[Morning Tweet]

I remember playing as scum and MT replaced in on our team and looked, uh, the opposite of this

I'll have a look for myself later but does anyone know if activity is a pattern tell for her

I suspect most of her post was thoughts formed before she replaced in and knew her alignment, with the push behind the conclusions being the main influence of her role pm

Maybe? I mean we can see if this is sustained, but it seems like something that would likely come from her town game

I mean like again she didn't do anything comparable in my previous experience with her when she was scum

Again I should probably just start efforting and go through her games

I'm an inconsistent player. I probably did not have my heart in that game. I do find it a lot harder to put my heart into scum games though

two examples of me repping in as scum. You were probably in the latter one.

viewtopic.php?t=83046&user_select%5B%5D=28527 - This is a micro just 35 pages but it was a 3v2 Xylo and i was scum with ABR. I did a catchup. It's several years old though and i dont really speak the way i did then but yteah

viewtopic.php?t=85649&user_select%5B%5D=28527 - I was very weak.
I replaced into a D1 rather than late game, and i fucked up the mech super bad -- but aside from that its a valid example of my scumgame repping in albeit it was team mafia so it was a tad more serious than what i usually do

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Klick do you believe there's reasonable chance that Gimli and Sky could have gambitted the fuck out of that (This is a genuine question I'm not testing you or smth)

with you and gera crossvoting then Gimli can only still be scum with, I guess gera from your PoV. Is Gera and Gimli technically still possible

The reason I'm asking this is because Gimli scum obviously just wins by accepting everything i say at face value as he's been doing as im already firmly duped as everyone else

[Morning Tweet]

Gera/Gimli/Sky can just win all together by taking advantage of Klick trusting Sky ... rather than kill Sky, probably

I think what Gimli and Sky do having Sky target Gimli and do all of that bantering would be extremely elaborate... Yeah I agree if Gimli were scum this is an elaborate setup for an already won game for them

[Morning Tweet]

I was going to ask Gimli about Ausuka but i remember already answered

btw MT I'm a VT

ausuka is a loud visionary, we've been coordinating so that I receive reports on who targeted me at night, both last night and the night before. that's why what happened last gameday with skygazer spews not only myself as town but also spews ausuka as town, cause it'd take minimal coordination between them not to spew sky scum in elo.

I have no idea what a visionary is

Okay so Ausuka makes you into a self-targetting voyeur when she targets you.

So basically, Ausuka would have known that Sky claiming to target you would go bad. And she had the entire night phase to tell that to the scum chat presumably so that Sky would know that

Outside of a completely unforced error then it wouldnt make sense for Ausuka to be scum

Yeah you'd think if Ausuka and Sky are scum together they could have swung that. I was getting the sense that scum felt like they wanted to win that Xylo (from Sky's posting esp). It would be crazy to not coordinate your night actions together which is the most basic thing

Hmmm that's a lot more boring though if I am mechanically locked into Gera/Klick

[Morning Tweet]

Maybe Sky claimed it kind of hastily, but if so, what was pressuring her to do so? It seems more like Sky was trying to win that day than anything to me

In the faint world where Ausuka and Sky are teamed im not sure there's reason to try and win that Xylo

Scum killed VTs over and over again they were probably starting to get very worried about the number of PRs left standing and probably wanted to beat them to the punch

That's kind of funny though because all of the town PRs this game have been like "2-shot Hider" or "Visionary". Actually I see the Shield/Doc flip on Enchant and Comus had a good role so forget that, we had decent power. I would never have expected the visionary to be the one to get a damninbg result rather than the watcher though

[Morning Tweet]

she also reminded me that enchant MVPed this game and carried us incompetent townies. if we win I'll write him a scummy nom.

Lol rereading my post it's like Enchant #1 fan club isnt it

Gerain, do you think I'm playing in a way that is obviously tailored to getting you eliminated? If anything I've been pretty much 90% focus on Klick.

Taking you as scum for granted and not elaborating on that much more isn't exactly a super convincing argument. Although I do think Sky picking Gimli to 'detective' rather than you makes you not town almost every single time. From your perspective, why the heck doesnt Sky just fake guilty you on that day?

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Was it known to the entire thread that Ausuka would be granting Gimli visionary powers that night before Sky made that claim? So my question more specifically, when was that revealed to the greater populace

I'm still a little unsure WHY Sky chose Gimli? Gera being scum is obvious conclusion. But something was off, like there was a misunderstanding or something. Did Sky already know there was a visionary on Gimli, or did it blindside her? The exact timeline is escaping me, I'm too tired for this rite now

[Morning Tweet]

I especifically like how organically sounding MT is slowly realizing she replaced into a 'boring' solve, while simultaneously exploring other possible solves

My wincon is the same as either alignment, just beat Klick, deadlocked 1v1 is a practgically 1 on the fun scale compared to everyone suspects everyone being a 10. Suspecting people you simultaneously trust is the best bit

When someone reads a game at a level of depth before they have a role PM they have a towny thought process because they did solving without a solution
MT literally has access to a towny thought process on the parts of the game she read pre-replacement regardless of her alignment and that influences analysis of how genuine you think her posting and solving is.

I don't have a specific late-game scum replacement game to back up my opinion of MT here - it's a read based on 1. having seen her replace in as

town

previously and a lot of her content from that game admittedly being written before she had her role PM, and 2. believing she is very capable of appearing natural as scum, which I believe based on being really impressed with a scum game of hers that I modded like ages ago

So not the hardline sources you might want for that opinion, but it's one I hold regardless even when I'm not biased and basically know she's scum in this game

It's true, I was solving the game assuming I'm town or you're town that needs mislimmed. At least around when i started. It was the "I'm fking town" area where you were appealing to Gimli that made me hesitate the first time a little and wonder if it was my slot rather than yours

I think one thing that was notable is I actually felt like I was town after reading your posts to Sky. At the beginning I wasn't sure so I wrote ambiguously in some areas so I could cover my ass and change the post later. I stopped doing that after enough time reading though.

I still took an hour or so to revise my post and expand after i got my alignment, take that as you might

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There are a lot of reasons that my replacement is easier to do as scum than if i had started the game. When you rep in you're unbiased as hell it's kind of like starting D1 when no reads are too important yet. You get to look at whatever you choose to respond to, you get to roleplay as a townie when you first are looking at the game, its all true

That's still just an argument for why I'm capable of the repin as scum though. It's not actively tying me to anything it's just a damper on Gimli TRing me. I feel like I have pretty good reasons for Klick being aligned with Sky

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I am amused by the level of effort being put into this game when it is so close to being over

If ur town and ur just watching me be Gimli or Ausuka or whoever's puppet for hours on end then BRUH \
thats funny as fuck actually

[Morning Tweet]

Conceptually you're entirely right although it doesnt make me scum it just makes me maybe not town

I think what Gimli's point with the second quote is that he recognized at the time you were scumsiding, tried to tell you, and it still didnt come off like you were wrong town

[Morning Tweet]

I am amused by the level of effort being put into this game when it is so close to being over

If ur town and ur just watching me be Gimli or Ausuka or whoever's puppet for hours on end then BRUH \
thats funny as fuck actually

this is the longest game I can remember playing. 170 pages. And not especially funny

Maybe but the hypothetical where you're town and I'm wallposting and am completely wrong but only Gimli and Ausuka are engaging with me on my lingering questions and you're accepting the loss while allowing me to continuously embarrass myself, that's sort of amusing

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These things are explainable by MT being rather good at sounding organic when she's scum

which is a true statement

This is probably particularly telling because i dont think Klick really thinks that of me

I mean it is explainable by that it just seems less likely

I mean maybe im biased but again i recently had a game where we were both scum and she replaced in and posted nothing and everyone was like "oh MT can't post she's scum lol" and then they killed her and she was scum and like I did check her profile and that's the most recent scum game of hers i can see?

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=55&t=89870&user_select%5B%5D=28527

Idk it just feels like night and day compared to this. Is there any spoecific example of a lategame replace that's similar to this you had in mind?

Oh I forgot about that game lol

I kind of was shooting the shit to try and get into the game without an in depth review and everyone immediately called me scum so i didnt really take it to heart

I dont think I ever had any intention of reading that game after the insanely cold reception to what i thought was nothing

LMFAO viewtopic.php?p=13505915#p13505915 I totally forgot about this that was actually funny as hell someone suggested I claim even-night friendly neighbour as my last bullshit

I don't think this is super indicative of how i would play as scum. The Team Mafia game i linked is a better example of me trying as scum but being miserable at it. The large normal i dont even seem to be present in the building

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It's probably a good indictator of my demeanor as scum but i would say i usually do a review to get into that game even as scum, I don't rlly know what i was doing in that instance

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No, I dont recall ever being scum in a game with Klick. He would only have second hand accounts the majority of which are witness to my less than stellar scumgame. \

Just because I'm aware of what I'd do as scum doesn't mean im able to control it

Curious what things I've been doing that remind you of what I identified as scum me

[Morning Tweet]

Re: Klick

I dont follow how Sky hammering herself is hurtful to a team with you on it but not a team with me on it. Why does scum want to end the day quickly? What if Sky just wanted to deny the info of a 4th voter after being obvscummed

Riddle me this, your idea of "preventing the day from ending" is siding with Sky and leaning towards Gimli/Enchant. You're not... disrupting an (afk) scum player from voting Sky? Or whoever from voting sky. I'm a little lost what you're "Actively disrupting" other than Sky's elimination

It seems like you're spinning talking about waiting to explore the possibilities of Sky!town or Gimli!scum as being a pro-town, anti-scum move because Sky hammered herself. Maybe a gross oversimplification but it feels that's a stretch

Why is discussion something scum desperately wants to cut off, and you don't want it cut off, and that makes it obvious that Kawaii (the afk player) was scum?

I can agree with you that they wanted to elim but you standing against that lim versus Kawaii going like: " " just doesnt feel like a smoking gun. That's a reasonable enough thing to do in order to try and mask WHY you're defending Sky

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you said a lot of your entrance posts and I guess intent on closing down on Klick are things you're always going to do in this game regardless of your rand etc. so there's a minor contradiction in simultaneously playing in a way you don't think is out of your scumrange and then suggest Klick doesn't believe what he is saying about your scum game looking organic/towny etc.

Hmm, I guess I see what you mean. I would be following the same gameplan and I'm aware of what i'd need to do. Doesnt mean I'd be good at it though

These things are explainable by MT being rather good at sounding organic when she's scum

which is a true statement

I mainly take issue with the bit that " I would be rather good at sounding organic". I don't think so and I don't see any reason Klick should believe that. I believe that Klick believes I'm being organic/towny now and is overselling my scumgame by saying that sounding towny is a common characteristic.

Maybe I'm being too unfair (As we've seen I dont remember all of my games) so there is the possibility that Klick believes that regardless of alignment, so theyre telling the truth. Which would make that not telling at all, I guess. That wasn't my initial reaction but its not unreasonable

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Yes, gera, more of that

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viewtopic.php?p=11836779#p11836779

Here's the game that primarily informs my opinion of scum!MT. It's from three years ago, I'm aware it's dated, and I haven't reread it to see what my opinion of it is now. But I at least read the post-game discussion where I gave a particular shout-out to MT for her strong scum play. I also say that I think scum played very well in the dead thread.

This is an opinion that I have. I know that MT has a very strong town game, I haven't seen recent scum games but I assumed it only leveled up from that game. I'm pretty sure I espoused this belief in Hollow Knight as well??

Ah. You unlocked those memories. Slipped my mind you were the mod for that game, it was so long ago! I concede

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Although I was mostly lucky in that game combined with being *just* convincing enough. Our night actions saved us completely. I wouldnt say i controlled the day game or anything particularly noteworthy, i just got into enough townies blind spots as a neighbourizer. Hectic wasn't a finely tuned machine at reading me yet too so that was helpful

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I did not get a visionary result of any kind. But that's neither here nor there I suppose, yeah.

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I would have probably shot Gimli, because he trusted me more outwardly, yet also I am paranoid of him potentially playing me

I think Klick would have probably shot Gimli since he was immediately on my side and i dont feel like his voiced suspicion of me was as concerned as Ausuka

Mmm... a foregone conclusion

[Morning Tweet]

So I get the WIFOM of getting rid of the townie that trusts me more and also don't have to deal with Gimli possibly having lied in order to get into the F3. This is the cleanest F3 for me when I'm not as familar with Ausuka

Klick I feel would have felt like Gimli would side with me. Especially with how much Gimli would hype me up

......

None of that really matters. I think Klick more than sided with Sky. And gera (especially earlier on in the game when i see those snippets. Klick had gera as hard town.)

My biggest crime was flaking the game and (quite possibly saving it TBH, 1 less townie to trick while Gimli/Enchant is on the hot seat).

Okay, for real though from a scum!me pov, my biggest crime is what? Sky (with help of gera) self-hammering while Kawaii afked even though Klick didn't want it? I still haven't really pieced together how that points to Kawaii scum and not Klick scum, but I recognize that Klick has made a great deal of that point

[Morning Tweet]

Hi uh I did reread a bit when I was falling asleep

Unfortunately I didn't really come to any sort of satisfying conclusion because I'm in a position where I'm slightly more skeptical of MT but idk if I can vote for her over Klick like not.commenting on the peditgate

One of the things I was thinking about is that having her teammates be kawaii and geraintm would explain Sky's, well, everything?? Like would Klick let her go out there and claim informed detective who.checked the vig claim

Why do you put responsibility on Klick for Sky's actions? I guess that's something you typically talk out with the team, sure, although maybe the chat was super moldy or something. Also, Klick willfully ignored the issues with the detective claim the entirety of the day even afte Enchant pointed it out, maybe Klick didn't even know

Like I was thinking something along the lines of, oh Klick hates playing scum he said as much himself

But look how much he's done in this game compared to kawaii and I'm not sure it applies

I think Klick dislikes playing scum but certainly has had a strong early game, totally flying under the radar. That playstyle starts to collapse when you've got to start forcing your reads late game when the shit gets real -- cause you were mostly relying on being a good investigator, but then you usually have to ignore very valid reasons for your partners being scum in favour of an alternative. That's completely how Klick 'misses' Gimli and Enchant as town yet nightkills them both

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Ok uh I somehow managed to Klick my role last night sorry

I think I just read the fast night thing and read OOH FAST NIGHT and somehow forgot my fucking visionary

So it's my fault MT didn't get anything regardless

That being said uh I'm probably like more likely to vote Klick but it is like a possibility I vote for MT I think? I want to reread again and probably think about the mech talk we had knowing Geras role

I don't know what to do with the nightkill. I think either Klick or MT have reasons to kill gimli here

Ah. Well Klick couldn't shoot Gimli and visit me anyway, lesst he can be in two places at once

I agree that was a good night kill arguably either way

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DAMN

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Ausuka's rly good.

You rlly were just watching the won game as I bullshit around the place Lol but I also found you really towny when i read the 25 pages. Plus, I mean, I thought the visionary junk meant something

[Morning Tweet]

Fuck there was something that just didn't make sense about Sky doing that claim. Or more like 1000x things. But impulsivity makes sense as a reasonable explanation

I had a lot of fun anyway! Thank you everyone, thank you implo