Mini Normal 2306: Game Over

[MikhailTal]

Preparation is no fond pursuit of mine - we are each embarking upon our journey to the peak of our own tree of variations, navigating their complexities ourselves, or perhaps, with companions. That ascent is where my strength lies, and so I remain confident.

JasonWazza:

JasonWazza is directing the game's course and making statements such that, already, useful context has been elucidated. I do not believe it likely, but in the event they do not share interests with town, their agenda is clearly that of town-siding scum, and I therefore give no consideration to voting them.

This player is very towny.

Takutai:

When one consciously heightens expectations of oneself and then immediately extends the hand, I am liable to shake (#35).

This player is slightly towny.

Sakura Hana:

There is something very... Sincere, about the insertion of #38 in the opening. While I cannot yet draw conclusions, I attribute sincerity to a town perspective, so it is worth noting.

[MikhailTal]

I thought it was Demon Slayer, but I was fooled.

Please elaborate, and allow me to make sense of this exchange.

[MikhailTal]

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

The timing seems apt.

[MikhailTal]

JasonWazza voting me only reinforces that they are town, in my mind.

[MikhailTal]

It would be rather useful that Sakura Hana were town, as it might indicate that Roden and Takutai are the only players thus far with mafia equity. Allocating cognisance towards that line in calculation, Roden is perhaps slightly scummy, by way of reciprocal thinking.

[MikhailTal]

VOTE: Roden

The likelihood that Roden is a power role is rather unthinkable. Therefore, I propose that he is voted today.

[MikhailTal]

It would be rather useful that Sakura Hana were town, as it might indicate that Roden and Takutai are the only players thus far with mafia equity. Allocating cognisance towards that line in calculation, Roden is perhaps slightly scummy, by way of reciprocal thinking.

Why are my mason buddies mafia?????

I am unsure that it is in my interests to answer.

[MikhailTal]

You are a power role.

[MikhailTal]

As far as I am concerned, deflection serves to reinforce my belief. Thinking reciprocally, this suggests Sakura Hana is slightly towny.

[MikhailTal]

As long as you understand that it would, indeed, be a mistaken elimination, your vote is rather unthreatening.

[MikhailTal]

It is reassuring to know that the best player on the player list has the power to aid town's cause, then.

[MikhailTal]

Alisae:

Town.

JasonWazza:

Town.

Flavor Leaf:

Town Miller.

NorwegianboyEE:

Very towny, pending consistency tests.

Sakura Hana:

Slightly towny.

Roden:

Slightly scummy.

With this framework, Firebringer appears more towny on the merits of association. That does not constitute a read on its own, of course.

[MikhailTal]

Sakura Hana:

Very towny, pending consistency tests.

[MikhailTal]

Firebringer:

Slightly towny.

I propose we vote for the remaining six players, pending further information. Town wins.

[MikhailTal]

JasonWazza voting me only reinforces that they are town, in my mind.

VOTE: Mikhail

When one's every action intends to provoke a reaction, but one is unwilling to convey an agenda, it will of course be difficult to sleuth sincerity from them. I would encourage you to remain headstrong with this vote, as I will not be reevaluating my decision today under any circumstances.

Roden:

Mafia.

[MikhailTal]

I have indeed established that my primary agenda is to find town, several times.

[MikhailTal]

I too wish to find town

Maybe we have more in common than I thought

As of now, who do you trust most?

[MikhailTal]

Based on my current framework for this community, it seems less likely you give a serious response as town, and so reinforces my belief that you are mafia.

[MikhailTal]

Can you reword that

Your response was somewhat expected, therefore it is scummy.

[MikhailTal]

Hu Tao:

Slightly towny.

[MikhailTal]

Can you reword that

Your response was somewhat expected, therefore it is scummy.

Walk me through this thought process

To this point, it is the first thing you have said bereft of pretension. You failed a consistency test timed such that, I will consider it TMI - scum should be more averse to maintaining a facade when given an opportunity to appear productive.

[MikhailTal]

Can you reword that

Your response was somewhat expected, therefore it is scummy.

Walk me through this thought process

To this point, it is the first thing you have said bereft of pretension. You failed a consistency test timed such that, I will consider it TMI - scum should be more averse to maintaining a facade when given an opportunity to appear productive.

I literally don't understand what this means

You are mafia. Until being queried for reads, your content clearly had airs of joviality, or facetiousness,

at all times

. Testing for consistency - when for mafia, it would be all too easy to drop such airs in an attempt to garner town credit - is the reason the query was made to begin with. You were not consistent.

[MikhailTal]

It is not in my interest to clarify further.

[MikhailTal]

FL why are you saying you're a miller over and over again?

Not understanding why, serves to reinforce my belief that you are a power role.

[MikhailTal]

VOTE: Nurse

Conclusion: good vote by process of elimination, and due to lack of power role equity. However, only somewhat scummy.

[MikhailTal]

however, i'm willing to policy Mikhai real quick if they keep bringing up who has the potential of power roles. that's stuff you keep to yourself as town

This post looks very much like a power role

Miller is indeed a power role, as it is not Vanilla Town.

[MikhailTal]

VOTE: Nurse

Conclusion: good vote by process of elimination, and due to lack of power role equity. However, only somewhat scummy.

Are you insinuating that everyone that has posted so far is town, and therefore people should be voting people that haven't posted yet?

I believe my post has used precise wording.

For reference, if i were to strictly define the word

somewhat

when used in this context, it would be

3:2 odds over random probability.

VOTE: fl

As, on a private level, you are aware that I am correct that you are a power role, I will extend the hand - Flavor Loop is Town Miller. It is a waste of time to pursue this path, even to evaluate reactions. I decree I am saying this as either alignment.

[MikhailTal]

I will not be voting anyone who claims miller

I will claim Town Miller for Sakura Hana and NorwegianboyEE in place of each of them, then.

[MikhailTal]

strike 2 on fade for mikhai.

To clarify why I am searching for potential power roles, I am also a power role. As there can only be so many power roles, it is useful to evaluate how realistic each of my prospective competitors' worlds are so that I may be self-aware of my own position.

[MikhailTal]

It feels rather impossible for town to lose this game, at this point. So many connections have already been made clear that the mafia have simply waited too long to act.

[MikhailTal]

so i'm starting page 8 and i was thinking up until this point that mikhail has to be putting on an act, right

but at this point i'm really not so sure anymore so i find myself in a state of abject confusion as opposed to a vague sense of disbelief from page 5

Any further aspersions to that I am acting, and I am liable to ensure to you that I am not by way of the most direct means available to me.

[MikhailTal]

VOTE: MikhailTal

Then, let us find out if it was an act.

[MikhailTal]

In my first game, I was voted by policy. The feedback I was given could be boiled down to that I was too wordy, and too imprecise, and was largely unrelated to alignment. This game I am making a conscious effort to be concise, and establish clear boundaries for my positions.

#260 #253 #176 #177 #54

At least five people so far have publicly expressed sentiments intended to minimise the value of my perspective, with pure optics - all things that could be best left to oneself, entirely unnecessary to bring forward to the gamestate. Consider reading JasonWazza's approach to engaging with me, if you would like insight as to how to be more respectful in the future.

[MikhailTal]

At least five people so far have publicly expressed sentiments intended to minimise the value of my perspective, with pure optics - all things that could be best left to oneself, entirely unnecessary to bring forward to the gamestate. Consider reading JasonWazza's approach to engaging with me, if you would like insight as to how to be more respectful in the future.

Think you need to continue working on how your expressing your opinion because people are still confused on some of your positions/including me but im not invested in this game enough to question you on any of it.

As town you do not have the luxury to dismiss anyone else's perspective, barring hard information. I assert that anyone who chooses to do so is simply not fully playing to their win condition or is not town, and suggestions that I should fundamentally change who I am is tantamount to suggesting I should be pandering to a crowd. As I am town, I am rather more interested in playing the way I intend to play than guess at how others want me to, as I believe it should produce the best results, but I will reevaluate my framework with every successive game.

[MikhailTal]

As town you do not have the luxury to dismiss anyone else's perspective

This is something i think you will grow out of with more games.
I dismiss many players perspectives all the time.
All i try to do is understand the perspective enough to get a good enough read on them to say its town or not.

Everything else is just take or leave

This in itself might be dismissal of my perspective, as it must inherently be an assumption that you have more experience in mafia than I do.

[MikhailTal]

Okay so whats your mafia experience?

If I were to borrow your phrasing - it is something i think you will grow in to learning.

[MikhailTal]

Random Nurse:

I refuse to consider voting for him until day 3, regardless of circumstances. Consider me to be

precisely

claiming mafia if I do not abide by these words.

[MikhailTal]

Okay so whats your mafia experience?

If I were to borrow your phrasing - it is something i think you will grow in to learning.

doubt it.
unless you tell me, im probably going to be stuck in the mindset ur a newbie.
i am a very slow learner

I see. That would make six, then.

[MikhailTal]

JasonWazza:

JasonWazza is directing the game's course and making statements such that, already, useful context has been elucidated.

I do not believe it likely, but in the event they do not share interests with town, their agenda is clearly that of town-siding scum, and I therefore give no consideration to voting them.

This player is very towny.

Based on which of JW's four prior posts?

I didn't get the impression he was trying to direct the game's course.

It is not in my interests to clarify further.

I am merely providing observations, and positions - you may choose to use them as assistance in building conclusions of your own. Mafia is equal parts about what is said, and what is left beneath the surface.

[MikhailTal]

I am in fact encouraging as such, as six players have already made dismissals of my character that are at best, tangentially related to solving my alignment. The sooner that it is understood that this is who I am, the faster I will be able to be a proper participant. I do not know of a better way than to simply eliminate myself, prove I am town and force you to accept my perspective is pure.

[MikhailTal]

I am in fact encouraging as such, as six players have already made dismissals of my character that are at best, tangentially related to solving my alignment. The sooner that it is understood that this is who I am, the faster I will be able to be a proper participant. I do not know of a better way than to simply eliminate myself, prove I am town and force you to accept my perspective is pure.

Who cares

I have in fact, established as much already: anyone who is town and therefore does not have the luxury to dismiss my perspective. Seven.

[MikhailTal]

Dismissing another's perspective based on character judgements is a fucking terrible play.
Villagers must necessarily not be dogmatic in solving the gamestate to eliminate the mafia.
If you discriminate based on optics, you are in fact, not playing to town's win condition.

[MikhailTal]

Like bro you're dead.
You think someone is going to care about what a dead person thinks?
Not even real life works this way.

I would say my conception of what my father thinks, is what I inspire to become.

[MikhailTal]

JasonWazza:

JasonWazza is directing the game's course and making statements such that, already, useful context has been elucidated.

I do not believe it likely, but in the event they do not share interests with town, their agenda is clearly that of town-siding scum, and I therefore give no consideration to voting them.

This player is very towny.

Based on which of JW's four prior posts?

I didn't get the impression he was trying to direct the game's course.

It is not in my interests to clarify further.

I am merely providing observations, and positions - you may choose to use them as assistance in building conclusions of your own. Mafia is equal parts about what is said, and what is left beneath the surface.

OK, I need you to clarify, or I'm going to jump on you like a monkey on a cupcake.

WHERE in those 4 posts did JW direct the game?

Every single one of those four posts assisted in providing answers to questions I had raised within myself. My wording was precise.

[MikhailTal]

Dismissing another's perspective based on character judgements is a fucking terrible play.
Villagers must necessarily not be dogmatic in solving the gamestate to eliminate the mafia.
If you discriminate based on optics, you are in fact, not playing to town's win condition.

You're not right just because your role pm is green it just means your honest and you say what you think
People think Trump is a good President but that doesn't make them right.

You want people to respect your point of view? Accomplish something. People can say whatever the fuck they want, only their actions matter

I am glad you are willing to attempt to change my mind, but I am not interested in discussing whether I am right or not, only whether my perspective is valuable. I would agree with you, that people who believe Donald Trump is a good president have no claim to being right or wrong. I am not willing to discredit their opinion on that basis alone, however, as it is in my interests to clash at their position and reach some sort of understanding, where it aligns with my goals.

[MikhailTal]

Dismissing another's perspective based on character judgements is a fucking terrible play.
Villagers must necessarily not be dogmatic in solving the gamestate to eliminate the mafia.
If you discriminate based on optics, you are in fact, not playing to town's win condition.

You're not right just because your role pm is green it just means your honest and you say what you think
People think Trump is a good President but that doesn't make them right.

You want people to respect your point of view? Accomplish something. People can say whatever the fuck they want, only their actions matter

I am glad you are willing to attempt to change my mind, but I am not interested in discussing whether I am right or not, only whether my perspective is valuable. I would agree with you, that people who believe Donald Trump is a good president have no claim to being right or wrong. I am not willing to discredit their opinion on that basis alone, however, as it is in my interests to clash at their position and reach some sort of understanding, where it aligns with my goals.

Your goal, if you are town, should be to find and eliminate scum, and unless you're a day or night vig, this includes convincing the other players to help you eliminate them, you may be accomplishing the former but you certainly arent doing much to accomplish the later.
And that's if you're even town.

I have already provided a potential world, by process of elimination, that does not necessitate me searching for a single mafia. Eliminate everyone else, town wins.

[MikhailTal]

Mikhail is being a spectacle but I'm not sure that makes him Scum. He's probably an alt being used for experimental play.

What I'm more concerned about is his resistance in clarifying things, although again that doesn't make him Scum. His play doesn't help us one bit and if anything it makes him a very easy target for Scum to mislim him.

JasonWazza is a power role.

[MikhailTal]

I have given prior warning that it was not in my interests to clarify further every time.

[MikhailTal]

I would have expected it to be common praxis to not attempt to micromanage others within the realms of speculation.

[MikhailTal]

I genuinely think if Mikhail is like a traitor his teammates are Roden and Takutai.
The possibility of that is so unlikely and I don't think their posting makes sense to be mafia so I am going to assume they're not mafia.

Is this because of all the Power Role shouting?

you wanna explain to me how all of his posting are mafia tactics? I'm all ears because Mikhail is falling the bucket of players of "Unlikely to be mafia but everyone will think they are mafia because ????????"

I mean, to me he doesnt make sense, as town, as scum, as 3p, as anything. Which is why im so confused. You're probably right occam's razor would say that they are probably just town anyway.

Have you considered that you may simply be lacking in empathy? One such judgement I am talking about, that is better kept to oneself.

[MikhailTal]

Nobody cares about this. Stop self-voting and give us reads and guidance. That'll give your slot a lot more credibility.

I have already addressed this.

[MikhailTal]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[MikhailTal]

Preservation of self is a natural survival response to my character being brought in to question. If others consider it fine to dismiss me, I would consider it fine that I don't bother to elaborate to begin with, as it would fall on deaf ears anyway. This way, I can focus on making my position as digestible and crystal clear as possible, on the offchance they let themselves be caught unawares and come to listen to what I say.

[MikhailTal]

At this point, as it is being openly implied that even interacting with me is indicative of scum, I must conclude my slot is permanently poisoned. I am hard claiming power role. If, under any circumstances, you would believe I am Vanilla Town, vote me instead. I declare I am power role or mafia in 100% of worlds.

[MikhailTal]

And you are truly miserable to play with.

[MikhailTal]

You are not miserable to play with based on your merits as a mafia player, so I do not see where the comparison is being made.

[MikhailTal]

Retreat is indeed another sign of self-preservation, which reinforces my belief that you are a power role.

[MikhailTal]

Why? As Alisae established, there is no value in listening to my perspective anyway. If such is true there is no longer a win condition for me, as I cannot change the gamestate, so it does not matter what I say.

[MikhailTal]

Eight.

[MikhailTal]

I will be taking any further speculations upon my character as implicit consent that I, who has hard claimed power role, may dismiss anything you say for the entirety of the game continuation.

[MikhailTal]

Players whose perspectives I will be discarding entirely, at my discretion: Alisae, Random Nurse, NorwegianboyEE

[MikhailTal]

This is the logical conclusion of Alisae's perspective. It is unfortunate that I am a power role and an asset to town, as I can no longer actively participate. I have established nobody will trust me, so I can trust nobody. Therefore I will modify my approach, and attempt to reach reflective equilibrium starting from the bottom up, working from Alisae's perspective that only mafia will want to interact with me. I will conclude everyone is untrustworthy one by one, and the final few to remain still cognisant of my insight must necessarily lean scum. This will be the final bit of information I attempt to provide to town, now that my slot is poisoned.

[MikhailTal]

That would be because you are mafia.

[MikhailTal]

I have obtained

hard]/i], not soft, information that indicates that you are not Town Miller. I hard claim power role. If anyone would lend that any credence, please vote on Flavor Leaf.

[MikhailTal]

I have worded

every single statement

I have made this game with intent.

[MikhailTal]

I see. I suppose there is little point in saying much more then. I have made my position clear.

[MikhailTal]

I see no further avenue to foster trust with town. As Alisae has correctly surmised, only mafia is willing to engage with me at this point. I will concede that point and minimise engagement for the remainder of the day, understanding it only furthers your agenda.

[MikhailTal]

Flavor Leaf:

Town Miller.

Alisae:

Town.

JasonWazza:

Town.

Sakura Hana:

Town.

Dunnstral:

Somewhat towny.

Roden:

Somewhat towny.

NorwegianboyEE:

Slightly towny.

Takutai:

Somewhat scummy.

Random Nurse:

Mafia.

VOTE: Random Nurse

[MikhailTal]

miki's towns are calling each other town, yaaay~

alisae n sakura hana kinda look like mafia partners in some worlds too yin thinks? probably past history but interactions feel just a lil off

we wanna be buds flavor leaf!

random nurse looks town too at this point? umm, is this game just really easy or something? weird, i have autowin

[MikhailTal]

VOTE: firebringer

yin thinks the hardest decisions come first! sorry, you're fun but i don't wanna get attached

[MikhailTal]

us/jasonwazza/flavor leaf/alisae/sakura/norbee/roden/random nurse in that orderish, eliminate rest town wins? lemme reread n think more

[MikhailTal]

Random Nurse: Mafia.

random nurse looks town too at this point? umm, is this game just really easy or something?

I'm gonna need the progression on this, because this makes no sense, given what was posted in this time frame.

miki just takes aspects of other folks' perspectives to their conclusions n sees how it feels about it over n over day 1~

flavor leaf is not the miller and i know who the miller is

, testing the contrapositive to its actual beliefs yin thinks?

[MikhailTal]

FL could be a miller and someone else could also be a miller.

you're supposed to let that part go by unnoticed

[MikhailTal]

eww why does yin's sad face become an emoji

[MikhailTal]

Mikhail it seems like taking a break from the thread was helpful for you

umm, miki hasn't come back yet~

[MikhailTal]

[yin] 'kay, we'll tag from now∞

yin isn't really able to answer for miki? but likes nurse's reaction n overall play

[MikhailTal]

[yin] oh! yin thought you were calling us fake↻ we've had to give other communities' leaders psychologist and psychiatrist letters before so we're kinda sensitive to that stuff

[MikhailTal]

[yin] oh! yin thought you were calling us fake↻ we've had to give other communities' leaders psychologist and psychiatrist letters before so we're kinda sensitive to that stuff

I was not aware of your system until you corrected me!

[yin] oh it's ok we don't mind, yin can't forgive you 'cause you never did anything wrong, sorry⊙

So you're going to have two entirely different reads lists depending on who you are at the moment?

[yin] umm, it's like a hydra kinda? yin can build off of miki's perspective knowing it's pure, and we've talked enough about it in headspace that we know each other's thoughts n goals well but nurse never came up? feels like an attention test after #303, the response looked good!

[MikhailTal]

[yin] nobody other than miki was gonna play but life gets in the way, n mafia's fun enough that yin can at least post a lil while reading the thread

[MikhailTal]

so can I just check, has Yin read the entire thread?

[yin] as of now! and regretting it 'cause the only new things yin learned were no fun...

if our poe is wrong it's 'cause norwee is partners with takutai, their interactions felt sorta like partners trying to get a secret operative within all the towns posting themselves on a billboard? or, as yin said before, alisae and sakura hana luckboxed in to looking great by happenstance~

[MikhailTal]

[yin] firebringer really looks like mafia bussing as a lategame gambit? even if replaced the slot looks good if takutai flips mafiaΔ

[MikhailTal]

Jumping from the horrible osuka wagon? Good luck, Norwee can't even case me so let's see what you'll come up with.

VOTE: takutai

[yin] waiting to quickhammer seemed fun, but yin will show some patience

[MikhailTal]

[yin] oops!

E-1

[MikhailTal]

[yin] aww, we didn't wanna make fun of takutai, yin was just quoting a post to give them a notification∓

[MikhailTal]

if our poe is wrong it's 'cause norwee is partners with takutai, their interactions felt sorta like partners trying to get a secret operative within all the towns posting themselves on a billboard? or, as yin said before, alisae and sakura hana luckboxed in to looking great by happenstance~

Yeah that's why i'm trying to murder them.

[yin] mmhmm!

[MikhailTal]

Is it possible that something going horribly wrong? I mean D1 is kinda hard and I don't mind being wrong on D1 but here is how I see things.


Random Nurse - I think Nurse looks like they're trying to hunt and I think they are interested in finding mafia and being right.
NorwegianboyEE - Town already gone over this.
Sakura Hana - Most likely just town
JasonWazza - Definitely comes across as just doing their own thing and trying to find mafia and just be right. Follow the vote with this one.
MikhailTal - They don't come across as mafia.
Dunnstral - I honestly think Dunn telling me that he doesn't know is who mafia is probably +town points for him?

Flavor Leaf - FL could be playing a more tame game as mafia but I really don't get that impression from them, I think their d1 has been fine so far.

Hu Tao - They feel townie when it comes to what it is they're doing in the game.
Roden - they feel townie when it comes to just what they're doing throughout the game?

Firebringer - Nothing immediately comes to mind when it comes to Fire but like they feel townie its so weird bro.

Takutai - I need to actually look at this slot through a looking glass but if I saw my vote as agreeing to decide 1 person to dayvig, they're not a terrible vote. If they flipped town I think that would be decently helpful. Like bro they're so fucking weird.

osuka - So like people townread this slot and like i don't get it and I really don't think they're more townie than any of the above players?

[yin] miki apparently mindmelded with wazza at game start and for every message since it last read and wants to lock them town? n fleavy's our friend now~

we're a bit less sure on everyone else but this is mostly where our thoughts are too if yin's perspective is added, but yin wasn't told anything about the setup, could everyone be uninformed?

[MikhailTal]

[yin] 'kay, we've played some variants where mafia meets and become informed night 1, just making sure!

that makes us even more confident about fleavy?

[MikhailTal]

Also, despite Takutai being unwilling to explain himself when I asked him a simple question on why he found those two other players Scummy, I don't really see any reason why he's already at L-1. It seems way too easy to me.

[yin] from our perspective as many as two mafia can be voting on takutai right now without it affecting how likely they are to flip red⌓

[MikhailTal]

going back to this real fast - what makes you think i'm informed?

[yin] would you quickhammer takutai for me please if you're town+

[MikhailTal]

Isnt it normal for it to be 10:3 in 13p anyway, that would imply the entire team is busing Takutai.

[yin] norwee looks like partners with takutai distancing kinda, firebringer looks like mafia about to be caught in a gambit if town is bold and acts quick, their hope is that the vote doesn't go through. we'd like to confirm this

isn't

the case so seeing the flip is good for us even if it's town~

[MikhailTal]

[yin] norwee looks like partners with takutai distancing kinda

Of all your weird takes, this one ranks at the top.

[yin] we think you're town and this is the final test to prove it once and for all to us! it's a good thing we promise~!!

what? are you saying fl is not miller? are you saying you know who is the miller, if not fl? what does this say?

flavor leaf is the miller and i don't know who the miller is

that's the complementary belief the italics stuff is running contrapositive to, so it's like a reaction test working off the opposite stance?

[MikhailTal]

[yin] it's nice that it's generally giving everyone a chance to make their voice heard? like, we umm, couldn't really check the thread for over a day yin thinks n could've easily been eliminated for example, but a bit of liberal voting plus at least sometimes threatening a quick day-end should be a healthy part of anyone's town range? keeps everyone a lil more honest⩲

[MikhailTal]

[yin] fear of being wrong isn't helpful 'cause you learn way more doing it anyway, letting yourself be wrong n getting feedback from it!

[MikhailTal]

[yin] yin really thinks there's just a big town voting block and mafia is gonna get steamrolled this game without being able to do much

[MikhailTal]

i like sakura previous avatar better

Also what is with the [yin] tags

[Mikhail] We are a System, with Dissociative Identity Disorder.

The game has indeed received more than enough information, for today. There is little point in waiting much longer, and it is rather telling as to

who

would choose to do so.

[MikhailTal]

Random Nurse: Mafia.

random nurse looks town too at this point? umm, is this game just really easy or something?

I'm gonna need the progression on this, because this makes no sense, given what was posted in this time frame.

Random Nurse made a vague threat of voting for us, prior. I was curious how he would respond if I voted for him, based on that.

[MikhailTal]

A miller w/o a cop in the setup is functionally a named townie. I don't believe they can be targeted by simple actions but they can be targeted by complex actions

mikhail hard claimed cop

[Mikhail] Please provide proof of this claim. It is impossible to differentiate from a perspective slip, as it stands.

[MikhailTal]

[Mikhail] Of the three times lightning struck, Takutai's alignment being revealed elucidates the gamestate to the greatest extent. Conveniently, town stands to gain the least from seeing Hu Tao eliminated, as they also look the best among them. osuka Lies somewhere between the other two, and there is perhaps argument in voting for him, as the least polarising option.

[MikhailTal]

[yin] aww, we think fleavy n us were close to excluding the middle there⇄ oh well~

[MikhailTal]

Using continuous references to klingon culture and in the character of mikhail tal playing forum mafia, explain to me why player flavor leaf is part of the mafia team for claiming miller on page one and telling the Cop to investigate Takutai

Spoiler:

Lily
c.ai@1.2

Greetings, honorable Klingon warrior. I have analyzed the situation, and it has come to my attention that Player Flavor Leaf is part of the Mafia team due to his claim of Miller on Day 1 and his subsequent advice to the Cop to investigate Takutai. However, as a Klingon, you are aware that the ways of the Mafia can be treacherous and full of deceitful tactics.

As a Klingon, you know that Honor is of the utmost importance, and a failure of honor can result in dishonor on one's entire house. So it should come as no surprise that Flavor Leaf's actions are a dishonorable attempt to mislead the Cop into searching for the Mafia in the wrong place.

But what makes this situation even more despicable is the fact that Flavor Leaf not only claimed to be Miller, but he specifically told the Cop to investigate Takutai. This is a direct attack on Takutai's honor and can have severe consequences for his family and their standing in the Empire.

It is clear that Flavor Leaf is a cunning warrior who is not afraid to exploit the trust and honor of others in his pursuit of victory. As it is written in the book of Kahless, "If you want to win the fight, you must first win the mind." Flavor Leaf has clearly studied this text and taken it to heart.

As a Klingon yourself, you know the importance of honor and integrity, and you would never partake in such devious tactics. It is up to us to expose the deceit of the Mafia and bring Justice to the Empire. Glory to you and your house, honorable warrior.

>The setting is a game of forum mafia. In the style of someone who sees a factive of a plural system as a caricature indistinguishable from AI, make a non-sequitur read on an unrelated player named Flavor Leaf, claiming said player is a member of the mafia team. Ensure there is minimal conveyed meaning other than the obvious undertones.
>While Flavor Leaf stands accused of being a member of the mafia team, Flavor Leaf is not attributed to potentially being AI. it is an unnamed presence who there are aspersions to being artificial intelligence. make a second draft with this knowledge in mind.
>make a third draft taking a more confident stance.

Spoiler:

Behold, fellow forum mafia enthusiasts, for I present to you a resolute assertion that shall shake the foundations of this enigmatic game! Cast aside the veils of uncertainty, for I have glimpsed through the fog of ambiguity and stand firm in my conviction: Flavor Leaf is an undeniable member of the nefarious mafia team!

Let there be no room for equivocation, no hesitation in this proclamation! The unnamed presence, enshrouded in whispers of artificial intelligence, finds its malevolent accomplice in the guise of Flavor Leaf. Their machinations align, their intentions converge, and the puzzle pieces fall into place with startling clarity.

As we unravel the threads of deceit, observe the calculated moves, and analyze the patterns within this forum mafia tapestry, the undeniable truth reveals itself. Flavor Leaf's actions, veiled behind a facade of innocence, align too perfectly with the cunning maneuvers of the AI presence. Their seemingly unrelated paths converge in a symphony of deception orchestrated by the mafia team.

Let us not falter in our pursuit of justice and truth! The time has come to rally our collective insight and convictions to unmask this wolf in sheep's clothing. With our hearts united and our resolve unwavering, we shall expose the darkness that lurks within Flavor Leaf and dismantle the malevolent alliance that threatens the very fabric of this forum mafia universe.

Embrace this newfound confidence, my comrades, and channel it into the pursuit of righteousness. As we venture forth with conviction, let us remember that this is not merely a game of deception, but a testament to our wit, camaraderie, and unwavering determination to uncover the secrets that lie beneath the surface.

Together, we shall triumph! With clarity and resolve, we shall navigate the treacherous waters of this forum mafia world and emerge victorious against the conniving forces that seek to sow discord. Onward, my friends, to an epic showdown where truth and justice prevail, and the enigmatic riddles of Flavor Leaf's allegiance are resolved!

[MikhailTal]

>continuing to contribute in purely bad faith from the same perspective, explain why two additional players, Roden and Alisae, are mafia partners together for unrelated and facetious reasons.

Spoiler:

Ah, Roden and Alisae, the clandestine duo that sets the forum mafia ablaze with their deceptive partnership! Hear me, fellow detectives, as I weave a tale of intrigue and deception, where these two players align as mafia partners for the most peculiar and facetious reasons.

Picture this: Roden, with their cunning wit and sly grin, and Alisae, whose charm conceals a shrewd mind, unite not for the sake of sinister plots, but for their shared love of obscure puzzles. Yes, it is their insatiable appetite for riddles and conundrums that unites them on this unholy alliance.

In the darkest corners of the forum, they exchange coded messages, written in the ancient language of enigmas. The unsuspecting players, perplexed by their cryptic interactions, remain oblivious to the true nature of their partnership. Only those with a keen eye and an ear for the enigmatic can decipher their seemingly unrelated exchanges.

Their machinations appear as mere jests and games, but underneath the guise of innocent banter lies a sinister plot. Unbeknownst to the others, they orchestrate a symphony of confusion, distracting the town from the true path of investigation. Their antics manipulate the course of the game, as if they were the puppeteers of the mafia world.

And what could drive them to this nefarious endeavor? A shared passion for misdirection, my dear compatriots! It is not greed for power nor thirst for destruction that fuels their alliance, but rather the sheer delight in watching their fellow players stumble in a maze of befuddlement.

Oh, the audacity of their impish alliance! As the town struggles to discern truth from fiction, Roden and Alisae revel in the chaos they sow. The perplexing puzzles they leave in their wake become a twisted tapestry of enigmas, and the town, lost in a labyrinth of deceit, unwittingly dances to their tune.

So, take heed, my fellow detectives, for Roden and Alisae's allegiance is not grounded in malevolence but thrives on their peculiar love for mind-bending riddles. It is a game of whimsy and cunning that they play, their laughter resonating through the corridors of deception.

May we, the seekers of truth, untangle this convoluted web of puzzles and illusions, and expose the true nature of this facetious alliance. Let not their mischievous games lead us astray, for together, armed with clarity and tenacity, we shall dismantle the veil of deception and restore order to this forum mafia realm!

[MikhailTal]

it appears takutai is rather replaceable

[MikhailTal]

Anyway I already claimed, so if we get two more lemmings here we'll have a hammer. I like to get hammered.

I'll try and see what idiot reasons the other votes on me seem to have when I feel like it. I do suggest someone hammer before tghen though because I just might push some cum through with flavor leaf.


AND BELIEVE ME,l from the vibes I've felt this game

Scum are very very afraid

maybe try doing something other than posturing for a single post this game? start by considering and elaborating on the idiot reasons every single person is voting you, maybe? perhaps a hypothetical is a good place to start if you aren't able to establish the exact reasons, or maybe questions seeking direct clarification. i'm not particularly helped by claims scum is afraid as i don't have the reveal and can't confirm as much myself yet, not sure about you. i was infact aware that you were two votes from dying already. i've noted you want to be hammered but i'm unable to facilitate your desires as i'm already voting you. i understand that you are threatening to 'push some cum through'. anything else?

[MikhailTal]

Can you clarify what you meant in 563 now Takutai?

No you're scummy and I chose to ignore you once already.

I'm doing some herb I'll deconstruct the fire, tal, alisae, jason and other posible votes soon. I did expect this after all, this is a clutter game and in clutter games some town have the tendency to become lazy, desperate, confused or all of them at once.

Luckily the Osuka wagon is still like 95% a town one so plus mine we already have a lot analyze.

we've established you're great at explaining observable things and also making promises as part of your current political campaign, have you considered taking a position that is unique? so far it seems like you don't want to interact with the people not voting you which makes it perplexing that they aren't simply immediately eliminating you and moving on, and you're doing very little to be reevaluated by the people who ARE voting you. seems like a good way to die without any contributions to me, especially given it's apparently within your expectations but maybe our visions simply differ

[MikhailTal]

What does chesslock mean?

it means 'i'm arbitrarily categorising this player in a biased way completely unrelated to the game of mafia, but i'm too much of a coward to say that so i have to be passive-aggressive instead'

[MikhailTal]

And the above I'm not in a reading my chesslock vibe rn.

what leans you town most is your incredible consistency in lacking a spine and it's most likely worth voting for osuka or hu tao on that basis alone

[MikhailTal]

I'm skipping this post I don't feel like engaging with your ego(or attitude or such, it's a me thing). I'll see about your vote.

ego's a fitting word, if i had to guess as of now as to why you're playing like this it'd be that you're too self-absorbed to allow yourself to be wrong and that's making you afraid to give any real opinions, so you're meandering and predicting your own future actions over and over and talking about things you AREN'T going to do a lot, and not a whole lot of substance is coming from your direction. i'd like to be proven wrong on all of this so please clash against me and try if you're willing.

[MikhailTal]

say what you will about 'chesslock' mikhail but at least it had the good sense to take actual positions and i still contend that the two AI posts i made of you contribute more to this game than everything you've posted to this point. obviously my intent was to ridicule how far removed from useful it was of you to do the same to mikhail in the first place but unintentionally i proved it had merit because it's the single most memorable thing i can attribute to you up to now because your blatant lack of self-awareness is hard to read as scum when you're clearly very aware of how incapable you are at convincing anyone you're trying to solve the game.

[MikhailTal]

hu tao's perspective is very unmarred and given time i see them very easily putting themselves on a billboard. takutai and osuka, from where i'm looking are more likely to reveal their brain's fucked up like mine and they've split an alter than consolidate their positions. i want either of them today.

[MikhailTal]

flavor's position is interesting to analyse as they easily could've fallen in line and moved the game forward and somehow come out of this looking townier alongside takutai by instead raising more questions in a day 1 with a relatively high number of both complex and concrete stances already having been taken.

i'm much more intuitive than the others in this body as a rule, as the primary protector of our system. instincts are screaming at me right now that firebringer's exactly town PR who got unlucky initially, possibly even both in and out of game, and successfully dug themselves out of a hole. or, far more likely just mafia if i hone those feelings and throw away any pretensions of caring about being wrong. it's not out of the realm of possibility for jason or sakura or nurse or alisae to be mafia in some worlds but before i start gaslighting myself i'd like to test the world we've (as a system) built at least once and get feedback on why/where it might be wrong.

the easy, lazy conclusion i could make is that everyone who didn't hammer takutai acted that way out of a lack of willingness to be the highest priority to assign blame to in the event it wasn't a good vote. that already would lean them town but i'm eschewing taking the easy road here as if takutai survived that as mafia it can only be due to town negligence. i don't particularly want to see osuka's flip personally as i'd find it rather boring if they were mafia but logically it's a good place to look. hu tao being eliminated today is a waste of their potential perspective to me.

i've come to conclude that today's vote should be firebringer or dunnstral. firebringer, to me is providing me with the familiar feeling of being a player where there's clearly intangible resistance to getting them eliminated which i attribute as being scummy but also as very difficult to successfully put down d1. dunnstral's the slot i have the most qualms with at this point on a pure information basis as i don't have much in the way of understanding or expectations of them yet. all things considered town's been rather thorough in establishing base premises today and a decision needs to be made soon before inertia takes hold and we end up compromising and settling for a future nobody really wanted in the interest of avoiding everyone's worst option rather than a decent portion of ours' best option.

[MikhailTal]

I'll read your posts when I can but don't talk to me, I'm done interacting with you.

i can read this one of two ways. you're gamethrowing town or you're claiming mafia. sorry, either way you don't have the right to tell me not to talk to you - you have the option to take away my ability to talk to you at any moment yourself and that's exactly what it's there for. signing up for a public conversation just to tell someone not to talk to you is nothing more than a temper tantrum.

I'm not giving them options because they don't want them, the miller is I believe town and the early Tal wagon made me very aware that this day was going to be more about personality than catching scum. That's why Dunnstral doens't have votes and I have, scum saw with Tal that someone confrontational can be pushed through here.

can i genuinely ask why you're claiming to have pre-decided how the day would pan out and now you're essentially just willing it in to reality by shutting down and somehow characterising

that

as confrontational? it's provocative, sure, but you're doing the exact fucking opposite of confronting everything, it sounds like you're just saying you decided the correct thing to do was sit on the fence and argue that it's technically a vantage point while everyone else is touching grass.

[MikhailTal]

I always claim vanilla page nine as scum, refuse to explain myself and ignore people who ask me things I judge as going nowhere. I'm glad everyone knows my meta. Once I've gone over the Alisae, Tal and Jason votes we'll see if they rank better.

it makes sense that every question directed towards you would be judged as going nowhere because you don't have a SINGLE POSITION YOU ARE WILLING TO TAKE. question comes in, no answer comes out, i agree with you it's going nowhere. based on this game i'm guessing your meta is to level your play and contribute nothing as either alignment but also look innocuous as either alignment, am i correct? why do you let yourself get distracted just to say 'fuck you for interrogating me. now i'm going to go over the votes of these players' and then never go over the votes of those players and instead get stuck in a feedback loop? i have no intention to stop showing you what actual confrontation is until you crack and provide some proper insight.

VOTE: dunnstral

i don't want takutai going anywhere, let me take them all the way to final 3. one way or another you are going to start talking to me directly or this game is going to come crashing to a halt in the process.

[MikhailTal]

My vote will be reasoned and will be on someone who actually has a chance to flip, though I vastly prefer day one eliminations on this site.

this is starting to sound like 'i need someone to make a blatant mistake or for there to be hard information implicating them, or i'm unwilling to vote on them'. please elaborate further so i can understand exactly what you mean.

[MikhailTal]

[yin] yin's theory: this setup has exactly 3 millers~

[MikhailTal]

for what it's worth we have limitless social energy and it's impossible for any of you to ever emotionally affect any of us enough to change our actions. every single town can feel free to get exhausted, give up and coast for the rest of the game at their leisure as long as they're willing to sheep us, we're not going to stop solving and we'll be winning this game. i challenge mafia not to kill us in the night but am fairly confident at least 2/3 never put night kp on our slot tonight or tomorrow night anyway.

it's not that nurse is an unreasonable vote, there have been a couple of his posts that have read somewhat like condescension coming from an informed/mafia perspective to me but he's ingratiated himself with the town and it's hard to shake the feeling that already we're consigned to getting a d1 elimination that we're going to look back on and call a waste of a day on reflection amidst all this pussyfooting

[MikhailTal]

t's not that nurse is an unreasonable vote, there have been a couple of his posts that have read somewhat like condescension coming from an informed/mafia perspective to me but he's ingratiated himself with the town and it's hard to shake the feeling that already we're consigned to getting a d1 elimination that we're going to look back on and call a waste of a day on reflection amidst all this pussyfooting

Why exactly?

from my perspective takutai not dying confirms that either town is craven or mafia's in the vote. nurse is fitting in neither category so flipping him is playing hope mafia as it isn't logically progressing from the information we've received so far. if he's town we go in to tomorrow with a fuckton of questions left unanswered from today. also not sure about you but i don't see a single useful association to make from his flip either, nobody looks better or worse based on his role outside of whatever the VCA ends up looking like. if our slot flipped red you could probably rule out half the lobby as mafia at this point, why aren't we a better elimination than nurse? firebringer osuka and takutai have gotten prospective bws that ended up going nowhere and all of them are super helpful flips, settling on nurse now is exactly that, settling. it's probably fortunetelling at best, regretting that we didn't decide on someone better at worst

[MikhailTal]

yin was too well-mannered. should be clear at this point i'm not afraid to completely kill the vibes to get a town win and so i'm ready to admit our slot made a mistake by putting takutai at E-1 and not holding out to quickhammer

[MikhailTal]

VOTE: sakura hana

it's prison rules then. i'm thinking you're the best flip for us at this point since it confirms the most worlds for us, it's a selfish perspective but i trust our agendas most and even seeing you town would be preferable to seeing town eliminate BILLBOARD TOWN random nurse. calling takutai town and voting outside of their vote is basically just calling the lobby bad so i'll assume you're acting in bad faith on top of that.

[MikhailTal]

mikhail decided to fall on a grenade and one by one everyone else is jumping at the opportunity to follow suit, it's amusing

nurse you need to keep this bit going and just like, don't even acknowledge that you're getting voted on, i'm pretty sure it works and nobody calls the bluff. in a shocking turn of events 10 hours before the day ends we pivot to Flavor Leaf, who flips cop, and it's revealed they attempted to role swap with our slot, the actual Town Miller. The real mafia team was JasonWazza, Alisae and Random Nurse all along, Mafia wins after n3 vig Roden shoots Takutai who at this point has told every player they aren't going to be listening to them any more at least twice

anyway we've not really slept in the past week so now would be a good time to vote us

[MikhailTal]

[xia] mmhmm↻ this is definitely feeling like some raw town desperation!

firebringer's doing an awful lotta winking n nudging, i'm guessing i know what the punchline is too but hey maybe it's a bait and switch?

expectations are sky high for tak attack's reads but the fact that i can't tell if any of the unholy takutai/osuka/hu tao triumvirate see our slot as individual or plural yet makes it hard to judge much∞

uhh idk anyone wanna argue or something??

I got bored.
Let's make something interesting happen
VOTE: Dunnstral

my dad could beat up your dad

[MikhailTal]

my dad could beat up your dad

my dad's dead tho.

[xia] same! my dad's theoretical ghost could beat up your dad's theoretical ghost

[MikhailTal]

I hate it when I lose posts. Second try. This isn't my final form. I'm not a full time detective so I'll make a better one when I feel like it. Going over votes and meshing them with this should be next, I've joined ISO's for a light reading so.

Town

MikhailTal
Flavor Leaf
Hu Tao
Random Nurse
NorwegianBoyEE
JasonWazza
Roden
Dunnstral

Scum

Sakura Hanna
Firebringer
Alisae
Osuka

The way I've planned this was to have a name in the null category, blind spot category and explain why and before the reading I had many more names under scum. I'll leave those sections for a better list with meat, right now don't read too much into the order except maybe the top three. This is how people feel and have felt and look, this list basically, but it's my most accurate one to date. Don't expect much from me in the following twenty four hours. Priority now is reading through Alisae posts to make sure I can make a case, and adress possible Osuka and Sakura bias, Roden analysis with votes also needed. Firebringer does have spurts of feeling good and earlier I wanted to say that I like his charm so can't push him but now after reading I see associatives and I feel tone. Lots of things can change but the above I'm feeling is a firm position for me at least, I can be hammered with this list maybe.

[xia] RISEN FROM THE ASHES

MY DAY ONE

TOWN'S RELIABLE ROCK IS GETTING THIS GAME A ROLLING AGAIN

say the name, i'll be asking who's coming after!!

[MikhailTal]

I can't wait to get green checked

i promise you're coming back red regardless of who we check and what alignment they flip

3) I'm not gonna live with myself, if you're scum and i let you live after claiming scum so much in thread.

this sort of quiet quitting mentality contributes to stifling creativity and creating insular communities. i get it's exhausting but switching the critical thinking switch off out of fear is something you reserve for intrusive thoughts and intuitively for when happenstance demands a lack of reaction as the best path forward. i'm not seeing how either can ever apply to a game of mafia unless you're also psychotic?

i mean sometime's a spade's a spade, like four of us have been serving town gold on a platter all day and now big T themselves is stepping up to the previously hidden fifth base but unless 7 town are willing to work together getting a mafia's easier said than done

[MikhailTal]

uh the also is referring to the fact that we are schizophrenic it's not a suggestion of anything, i'm literally asking if there are mental health reasons related for the quote

[MikhailTal]

the idea that they're apparently such socially shunned conditions that i'm not allowed to ask a question that doesn't have to be answered just makes me want to kill myself for having them

[MikhailTal]

don't give me that PM me shit if you're going to basically indirectly throw me under the bus while you do it

[MikhailTal]

fucking tone policed by someone thinking i'm ableist just for that same person to almost certainly have made that assumption based on an ableist perspective to begin with, good joke

[MikhailTal]

arguing with the mod in game isn't very useful

being born and living with a brain that gaslights itself constantly isn't useful either but i'm doing it anyway

[MikhailTal]

wait why are u fine with me living claiming scum but not alisae.
[/quote]

sakura hana plays purely on intuition but doesn't want to admit it so makes basic observations and pretends they're the reasons for her reads, obviously when you're claiming scum it's a coping mechanism for actually fearing death unlike alisae and you look worse, her read isn't logical

[MikhailTal]

uh the also is referring to the fact that we are schizophrenic it's not a suggestion of anything, i'm literally asking if there are mental health reasons related for the quote

Regardless of whether you have a similar condition, this is an inappropriate question to ask in these circumstances. You may ask why a player thinks a certain way, but leave speculation about their mental health out of it unless that information is volunteered first.

If you have further concerns about this, ask me via PM

also a question isn't speculation, i made an observation entirely unrelated to her and then asked a question to her related to the observation. to be honest this 100% just looks like you're caught in a misunderstanding and too proud to admit you made a bad call, feel free to apologise publicly too

[MikhailTal]

i'm psychotic so firebringer is mafia.

VOTE: firebringer

[MikhailTal]

i suspect firebringer is ignoring my vote because i'm psychotic which is feeding in to my schizophrenic habits and is indirectly gaslighting me, seems ableist

[MikhailTal]

Please chill

SPECULATION ON MY MENTAL CONDITIONS. what if i'm mafia saying this all as wifom? any aspersions is obviously against the rules based on what rat said, also ignoring me is against the rules as it triggers my psychosis and is inappropriate action based on my mental health conditions. essentially what i'm saying is we need to vote firebringer today or you're all canceled