Mini Normal 2311 | FIN

[Passenger]

heipzhu4, BlueSnakelet, ZZZX, Passenger, Hu Tao, AnimatedWiz and TheHoldSteady need to step up their activity

I feel called out!

VOTE: NM

heipzhu4, BlueSnakelet, ZZZX, Passenger, Hu Tao, AnimatedWiz and TheHoldSteady need to step up their activity

I feel called out!

VOTE: NM

I fear we may have a Doublevoter D1 claim—careful everyone.

Doublevoter isn't normal.

VOTE: BlueSnakelet

[Passenger]

VOTE: ZZZX
Scummy-ish hop on

[Passenger]

VOTE: ZZZX
Scummy-ish hop on

Id vote you but I forgot what that term was called... time to get back to the wiki.

But I will bite, why is it scummish?

Your tone seemed like you were trying too hard to fit in

[Passenger]

With the "Choo choo" vote?

Pretty much

[Passenger]

With the "Choo choo" vote?

Pretty much

I don't see it. The tone seems appropriate for the RVS.

I don’t see it either, I was just trying to start discussion

[Passenger]

Obligatory UNVOTE: ZZZX

[Passenger]

LMAO

[Passenger]

What do we think of Random Nurse quickhammering? I have to admit, encountering some WIFOM trying to decipher the reasons he would have to do so.

My guess is just that he felt like doing so in the moment. Random Nurse doesn't feel like the type to be self-conscious about being scumread as scum. I think the NM hammer is probably just completely NAI

[Passenger]

Random Nurse is an abrasive egoplayer and in a game that is primarily full of conservative, low postcount players, Random Nurse will become limbait. I don't think anything that Random Nurse has said so far is alignment indicative in the context of his playstyle.


AnimatedWiz gives newbtown vibes, especially in 105. I'm not sure that a newbie scum player would think to include things like "scum certainly have 2 votes to use."

ZZZX's questioning of Random Nurse is towny but nothing he's said is unfakeable.

VOTE: TheHoldSteady

Better than nothing!

[Passenger]

Heip kind of pings to me as NewbScum a bit scared to make a move.

I thought the same too

[Passenger]

Passenger, what's your read on Hold? Is it simply a gut feeling or any specific reason to vote?

entirely just gut feeling. And not a particularly strong gut feeling at that. Given his complete lack of reaction I'd be inclined to say that he's slightly more towny.

[Passenger]

vanilla Villager.

is that the wording of your role PM?

[Passenger]

In other words, is your role called "Vanilla Villager" or something else?

[Passenger]

What the hell

I’m a Backup Neighbor

[Passenger]

I think the neighborhood is just 2 scum lmao. Indecisive Doctor doesn’t really fit into the setup but we can resolve it later.

VOTE: BlueSnakelet

[Passenger]

I don’t doubt that BlueSnakelet and heiphizhu are neighbors, but my theory is that they are Mafia Neighbors who are informed that there is a backup neighbor in the game so they have to do scum theater in that neighborhood in case one of them dies and the Backup comes into the hood and is protected by the doctor???

[Passenger]

What the hell

I’m a Backup Neighbor

...

Hm.

A Backup Neighbor that can't currently communicate, but if is Scum would still show up as being able to privately communicate (I'm under the assumption Mafia have Daytalk).

is your theory that I’m trying to get BlueSnakelet limmed so that I can replace into the neighborhood and thus have your traffic analyst result on me not matter

[Passenger]

RN, in my world, I’m a Town Backup Neighbor and you’re a Town Traffic Analyst and heiphi and Blue are both Mafia Neighbors.

In my world, you are a negative utility PR, you contribute nothing. Neighbors are generally neither positive or negative utility, so the moderator then needs to add another role to the setup to balance it out. In this case, the role the mod adds is a Town Indecisive Doctor.

[Passenger]

I don’t doubt that BlueSnakelet and heiphizhu are neighbors, but my theory is that they are Mafia Neighbors who are informed that there is a backup neighbor in the game so they have to do scum theater in that neighborhood in case one of them dies and the Backup comes into the hood and is protected by the doctor???

What?

I think they’re both Mafia Neighbors. That’s the only way I can make sense of this setup in my head if you and I are both town.

[Passenger]

RN, in my world, I’m a Town Backup Neighbor and you’re a Town Traffic Analyst and heiphi and Blue are both Mafia Neighbors.

In my world, you are a negative utility PR, you contribute nothing. Neighbors are generally neither positive or negative utility, so the moderator then needs to add another role to the setup to balance it out. In this case, the role the mod adds is a Town Indecisive Doctor.

If I target someone and they can't communicate that means they're a VT

Oh yeah I’m actually stupid. Although now that you said that I’m just going to die tonight lmao

I still think I’m probably right

[Passenger]

Actually I'm starting to suspect Passenger.

VOTE: Passenger

I guess you could lim me but there is also guaranteed scum in at least one of the neighbors

[Passenger]

I would like to state, regardless of whether this is truly the set-up or not, having two scum Neighbors with a back-up Village Neighbor would be really funny.

I’ve thought of running a similar setup in the Normal queue before with 1 scum neighbor and 1 town neighbor and 1 backup town neighbor but I never actually got around to it

[Passenger]

WITH THAT SAID:

We are in a 9 player game. We have 2 dead VT’s and 2 VT claims.

4 VT’s is the minimum number of VT’s in a 9 player normal.

Thus, ZZZX and AnimatedWiz are completely clear.

This leaves 2 scum in (T3, TheHoldSteady, Random Nurse, BlueSnakelet, and heiphizhu)

I don’t think I have ever seen a neighborhood that contains all town. I think it is very likely there is at least one scum in Vlue

[Passenger]

EBWOP: There is at least one scum in Blue/heiphi.

[Passenger]

I highly doubt that TheHoldSteady is scum. Indecisive Doctor is a very strange claim for a newbie scum to make and that claim fits in with the setup needing a protective role.

[Passenger]

VOTE: helphizhu

[Passenger]

It's a blatant lie that is not even remotely close to any other normal run, and is easily confirmable. Yet it was greatly exaggerated

I said the 4 VT’s thing from a setup perspective. I highly doubt that the reviewers would ever approve a 9 player setup with 3 VT’s. It’s

possible

but unlikely.

[Passenger]

While I am not a normal reviewer, I have played and modded my fair share of normals.

[Passenger]

I guess I could see a world in which 1 Neighbor and 1 VT claim is scum but it just feels awfully unlikely

[Passenger]

It's a blatant lie that is not even remotely close to any other normal run, and is easily confirmable. Yet it was greatly exaggerated

I said the 4 VT’s thing from a setup perspective. I highly doubt that the reviewers would ever approve a 9 player setup with 3 VT’s. It’s

possible

but unlikely.

This is another lie. You said specifically that 4 was the MINIMUM amount of VTs. Not what you suspect to to be the minimum

We are in a 9 player game. We have 2 dead VT’s and 2 VT claims. 4 VT’s is the minimum number of VT’s in a 9 player normal. Thus, ZZZX and AnimatedWiz are completely clear.

I was not presenting the 4 VT’s as a minimum theory as a hard and fast fact.

Fixed broken quote formatting

[Passenger]

I guess I could see a world in which 1 Neighbor and 1 VT claim is scum but it just feels awfully unlikely

You didn't say unlikely. You tried making it appear to be a fact that there MUST be 4 VTs. You were not saying you beleive it's unlikely. You did not say that.You're saying that

now

since you're getting called out on your lie but you most certainly did not say or mean it back then.

From my fairly extensive experience modding and playing in normals that I believed the 4 VT’s as a minimum rule with ~95 to 98% certainty

[Passenger]

VOTE: Passenger

They're wolf. Caught out on a lie

I’m tempted to say that this is a dumb push and that you should know better

[Passenger]

I understand making a mistake but your words right in this conversation prove that it wasn't just a mistake. You're playing it off like you never said it, therefore you're just wolf here.

Okay, I phrased things weirdly, got too excited, didn’t realize that I had phrased things weirdly after-the-fact, whatever.

[Passenger]

I doubt they're not a backup neighbour. Claiming that is suicide in the lategame so regardless of alignment, that'd be their role. It's very much possible that the setup was designed for this type of interaction where the wolf backup wants to get rid of a neighbour fast before they get schmacked by the TA. Interesting thought experiment at the very least, would make sense why they'd go for both neighbours equally

As I said here. I believe they're pushing a hard agenda to get out one of the neighbours so they can't get caught as scum by the TA. It would align with why they'd lie about the VTs so the discussion stays where they want. In the same post where they lied they said "I've never seen a full town neighbourhood" which is just an awful reason to SR in the neighbourhood and it's just all nonsense reasoning and nonsense reasoning is almost certainly coming from wolf. Let alone they're literally lying about what they said and meant because it's very clear what they meant, and they're flat out denying it and they're stuck flat out denying it since they already went down this path

I have never seen a full town neighborhood, actually!

[Passenger]

I understand making a mistake but your words right in this conversation prove that it wasn't just a mistake. You're playing it off like you never said it, therefore you're just wolf here.

Okay, I phrased things weirdly, got too excited, didn’t realize that I had phrased things weirdly after-the-fact, whatever.

It's not just phrasing things weirdly though. You literally lock-towned two VT claims because of it.

Yes, and I almost entirely stand by these lock town VT claims.

[Passenger]

Answer my question btw. What's your read on ZZZ

Town. I was leaning town on him by his play.

[Passenger]

Answer my question btw. What's your read on ZZZ

Town. I was leaning town on him by his play.

Can you elaborate further? What part of his play has you leaning town?

A lot of his posts felt genuine, that's really it. There have been much scummier players than him.

[Passenger]

like how am I supposed to fight against this wagon? I've already explained my entire thought process to JV, he's continuing to push me despite that. I can't push anyone else here either.

[Passenger]

I've already said all of my reads too. I hard TR ZZZX and AnimatedWiz due to setup spec, I've said this before. At this point I think the scumteam is some combination of JV/Blue/RN.

[Passenger]

You'll lim me today, TheHoldSteady will die tonight, and the most likely world here is that JV will try to get BlueSnakelet limmed and then scum will win.

[Passenger]

Honest question: why do you think Steady would be the nightkill?

He’s the doctor

[Passenger]

Answer my question btw. What's your read on ZZZ

Town. I was leaning town on him by his play.

Can you elaborate further? What part of his play has you leaning town?

A lot of his posts felt genuine, that's really it. There have been much scummier players than him.

OK. Can you quote me maybe one or two of his posts you thought were genuine?

His response to me in 51, 110, and 160

[Passenger]

And which players do you think have been scummier?

JV’s predecessor was slightly scummy and JV has been quite scummy here IMO. JV’s push on me is bad. I just think that town!him would have a voice at the back of his head saying “okay, what if Passenger accidentally worded things unclearly and didn’t realize that he did so” or “okay, what if Passenger was being stupid town.” So far he hasn’t even remotely expressed these sentiments. He’s a perfectly good player and I think that town!him would read my posts in at least a slightly better faith than he is doing now.

[Passenger]

And which players do you think have been scummier?

JV’s predecessor was slightly scummy and JV has been quite scummy here IMO. JV’s push on me is bad. I just think that town!him would have a voice at the back of his head saying “okay, what if Passenger accidentally worded things unclearly and didn’t realize that he did so” or “okay, what if Passenger was being stupid town.” So far he hasn’t even remotely expressed these sentiments. He’s a perfectly good player and I think that town!him would read my posts in at least a slightly better faith than he is doing now.

I have considered you doing this as a Town, I just don't believe that to be the case. Why am I scummy for realising this over the multiple people who have reciprocated the reasonings?

THS reciprocated the same reasoning but 1. He’s fairly new and 2. I understand him being town with that same reasoning a lot more because he was strongly townreading you and he would be more inclined to sheep you and 3. He did question his scumread of me and tried to look at me from a more charitable perspective, in 303 and 305