Open 106 - Impotence Mafia (Game Over!) before 714
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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I hereby understand and confirm my role.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Vote: EmpTyger. Why don't I have stripes like you?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Oh I know he's just kidding with me xDyorgi wrote:
I know there are joke votes and random voting but what is with this comment.Caboose wrote:
That's what we will hope to find out.BlondeSoWut wrote:Soo I just noticed. We have to catch the mafia, right? Well they are gonna try to play like the town. So how do we know who is in the mafia?
Anyway, all other random votes are irrelevent as we will by lynching StrangerCoug today.
Vote: StrangerCoug
Not to meta-defend him, but keep in mind that Natirasha acts anti-town in general. He has admitted to being the serial killer in at least one game, though.yorgi wrote:Also do we really need to confuse people with fake claiming scum roles Nat?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Hence "at least one"—the one game I played with you where you did so and actually were the serial killer.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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I'm officially making my random vote a real vote for threatening to vote another player.EmpTyger wrote:Natirasha:
I'm giving you 24 hours to convince me not to vote you.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Some people consider it so, and knowing Natirasha the way EmpTyger's post is worded rubs me the wrong way. (EmpTyger may not be familiar with Natirasha's meta, but seriously, why give another player an ultimatum?) The massclaim issue is another thing against Emp, and I don't like the idea of it at this stage of the game.Caboose wrote:
Is that really a scumtell?SC wrote:I'm officially making my random vote a real vote for threatening to vote another player.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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I don't think unhelpful players should be tolerated, but I don't like the concept of an ultimatum in Mafia either. I buy your defense for the ultimatum, however, so I willEmpTyger wrote:The ultimatum is because we are under a deadline situation and I see no advantage in waiting. Why do you think an unhelpful player should be tolerated?unvoteyou. I'll look at reactions when I check on my other games.
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Vote Count:
ZazieR(1) - yorgi
mrfixij(0)
chenhsi(0)
yorgi(0)
EmpTyger(3) - chenhsi, Zakeri, Caboose
afatchic(0)
BlondeSoWut(2) - ZazieR, Appassionata
StrangerCoug(1) - BlondeSoWut
Appassionata(0)
Zakeri(0)
Caboose(1) - mrfixij
Natirasha(2) - Natirasha, afatchic
Not voting(2) - EmpTyger, StrangerCoug
With 12 players alive, 7 votes will achieve a lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is January 3.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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OK, looking at this EmpTyger/Natirasha deal again, I'm still looking at EmpTyger, but for the massclaim suggestion instead of the ultimatum. As I said, I see why EmpTyger's is going after Natirasha, and I'm not liking Nat either. I'm pretty sure at least one of these two people is scum at this point, but page 3 is too early to say anything definitive.
FoS: Natirasha and EmpTygerSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Any particular reason? We're clearly out of random voting.BlondeSoWut wrote:Unvote, Vote Appassionata.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Not sure which one's really scummier than the other, but I'm leaning EmpTyger at the moment.
...Ah, what the hell.Vote: EmpTygeragain.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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EmpTyger wrote:SC:
Why did you eliminate the possibility that we are both innocent?StrangerCoug [52] wrote:OK, looking at this EmpTyger/Natirasha deal again, I'm still looking at EmpTyger, but for the massclaim suggestion instead of the ultimatum. As I said, I see why EmpTyger's is going after Natirasha, and I'm not liking Nat either. I'm pretty sure at least one of these two people is scum at this point, but page 3 is too early to say anything definitive.
When two people are pretty high on my scum list, them both being innocent is simply not something I think about. I know that I could be completely wrong, and I may find people more suspicious than you two, but that's my current stance.
It's already been addressed, so I didn't talk about it, but since you asked so nicely, I will: A vig massclaim supports the Mafia more than the town. To massclaim vig/not vig means that it takes at most two nights to completely shut down the vig. The first night, the mafia roleblocks one claimed vig and kills another. If the town gets a nightkill, the roleblocked vig has to be one of the two shooting blanks, so the best roleblocking target is the vig that the Mafia didn't do anything to the previous night.EmpTyger wrote:And, specifically, what are you finding suspicious about my suggestion?
Most people seem to be going pro-town about it.EmpTyger wrote:
Did you find anything?StrangerCoug [50] wrote:<snip>
I'll look at reactions when I check on my other games.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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EBWOP due to crosspost: Caboose, I'll address your case when I get back home. Have to look at apartments now.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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OK, as promised, here's my response to Caboose:
I didn't want to revote EmpTyger so soon after unvoting him, but given my vote on him was for the ultimatum against Natirasha and he explained why he felt it necessary, I removed my vote. I had nothing new to contribute to his massclaim idea, which is why I didn't originally addressed it. Yes, I revoted in response to mrfixij, but that was because I realized that I should have taken his massclaim suggestion into account before unvoting, which I failed to do.Caboose wrote:Something that I find odd:mrfix wrote:Stranger, any particular reason for the double FOS while you have a vote available to be cast?SC in the post right after wrote:Not sure which one's really scummier than the other, but I'm leaning EmpTyger at the moment.
...Ah, what the hell. Vote: EmpTyger again.
So, you only place a vote rightaftersomeone calls you down on it? That's kind of weird to me and it kind of looks like scum cracking under pressure. Plus, the vote looks hastily placed.
Vote: StrangerCougSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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I answered this already. Post #67.Caboose wrote:
Why is Emp's suggestion of vig claim scummy?SC wrote:I didn't want to revote EmpTyger so soon after unvoting him, but given my vote on him was for the ultimatum against Natirasha and he explained why he felt it necessary, I removed my vote. I had nothing new to contribute to his massclaim idea, which is why I didn't originally addressed it. Yes, I revoted in response to mrfixij, but that was because I realized that I should have taken his massclaim suggestion into account before unvoting, which I failed to do.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Anything that helps the Mafia more than the town is scummy in my eyes, thus the idea is scummy in my eyes.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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It's very possible for townies to have bad ideas. Miserable ideas, even. But EmpTyger admitted that he didn't think it through all the way before bringing it up, and he should have thought it through all the way.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I believe so on both counts, but the one example I can think of off the top of my head is unfortunately ongoing. Your question convinces enough for me to go ahead andunvote EmpKing, however.I believe you mean EmpTyger.
Natirasha's general anti-town behavior is still helping nobody, sovote: Natirasha.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I thought I said Nat was helpless, not useless.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I implied that being anti-town was his meta. Not that he was really antitown in this game yet.Caboose wrote:
Why did you call Nat anti-town in this post? I thought that the scumclaim by Nat was clearly a joke.SC 2 wrote:
Oh I know he's just kidding with me xDyorgi wrote:
I know there are joke votes and random voting but what is with this comment.Caboose wrote:
That's what we will hope to find out.BlondeSoWut wrote:Soo I just noticed. We have to catch the mafia, right? Well they are gonna try to play like the town. So how do we know who is in the mafia?
Anyway, all other random votes are irrelevent as we will by lynching StrangerCoug today.
Vote: StrangerCoug
Not to meta-defend him, but keep in mind that Natirasha acts anti-town in general. He has admitted to being the serial killer in at least one game, though.yorgi wrote:Also do we really need to confuse people with fake claiming scum roles Nat?
I'd explain my experience with this, but it's in an ongoing game. But depending on the circumstances, it can be a scumtell.Caboose wrote:
Voting for EmpTyger for something that's not a scumtell.SC 4 wrote:I'm officially making my random vote a real vote for threatening to vote another player.
+scumpoints
I think EmpTyger and Natirasha are scummy independent of each other. Unlike EmpTyger, I never said anything along the lines of "stop doing this unless you want me to vote you". My first vote on EmpTyger was for the threat itself, not the reasons thereof which was the basis of my unvote. I felt was right for EmpTyger to call Natirasha out for his actions. I did not feel it was right, however, for EmpTyger to give Natirasha an ultimatum. Clear?Caboose wrote:
EmpTyger was trying to get Nat to not be useless, and you vote him for it? I don't get that. How is offering an ultimatum to get someone to stop acting anti-town scummy? And the fact that you're voting Nat yourself for being useless just adds to the hypocrisy here.SC 5 wrote:Some people consider it so, and knowing Natirasha the way EmpTyger's post is worded rubs me the wrong way. (EmpTyger may not be familiar with Natirasha's meta, but seriously, why give another player an ultimatum?) The massclaim issue is another thing against Emp, and I don't like the idea of it at this stage of the game.
+more scumpoints
My later posts reflect my understanding of why Emp did what he did. I do not see myself as a hypocrite regarding this given I dropped the ultimatum case when I started pressuring Natirasha.Caboose wrote:
I don't see what your hang up is over Emp's threat. He's pretty much doing what you're doing now, which is basically saying "Be helpful or be lynched."SC 6 wrote:I don't think unhelpful players should be tolerated, but I don't like the concept of an ultimatum in Mafia either. I buy your defense for the ultimatum, however, so I will unvote you. I'll look at reactions when I check on my other games.
See response to my #5 in isolation.Caboose wrote:I don't like the unvote, either. You tried to make a crap case on Emp and then you backed off when you saw that it would blow up in your face.
+even more scumpoints
I don't like rehashing what I or other people have said, and once again I was hesitant to revote Natirasha so soon.Caboose wrote:
Don't know why you FoS'ed Nat since he didn't do anything particularly scummy. This post also suggests fencesitting which = more scumpoints.SC 7 wrote:OK, looking at this EmpTyger/Natirasha deal again, I'm still looking at EmpTyger, but for the massclaim suggestion instead of the ultimatum. As I said, I see why EmpTyger's is going after Natirasha, and I'm not liking Nat either. I'm pretty sure at least one of these two people is scum at this point, but page 3 is too early to say anything definitive.
FoS: Natirasha and EmpTyger
Skipping over your case on my #9–#13 in isolation as either stuff I've addressed the best I can already or stuff I'll address below.
It's still more pro-town to think things completely through than not.Caboose wrote:
Not thinking off all possibilities before bring up an idea =/= scummySC 14 wrote:It's very possible for townies to have bad ideas. Miserable ideas, even. But EmpTyger admitted that he didn't think it through all the way before bringing it up, and he should have thought it through all the way.
Again, I don't like rehashing stuff already said. You yourself have said that some of his posts are useless. Not all of them, but I find fluff posts like those you brought up scummy.Caboose wrote:
You jump off of Emp and go onto Nat, still with no explanation as to all this anti-town behavior Nat is showing.SC 15 wrote:I believe so on both counts, but the one example I can think of off the top of my head is unfortunately ongoing. Your question convinces enough for me to go ahead and unvote EmpKing, however.
Natirasha's general anti-town behavior is still helping nobody, so vote: Natirasha.
Has Natirasha contributed to scumhunting worth squat yet, for example?Caboose wrote:
WHY?SC 16 wrote:I thought I said Nat was helpless, not useless.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Why Appassionata and chenhsi?BlondeSoWut wrote:Why are people only looking at Emp and Nat as mafia? What about Ap and Chen?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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I just clarified it's the ultimatum itself that was the reason for my first vote on you, not specifically you issuing it against Natirasha. I unvoted when you explained that you were using it to try to get Natirasha to, in a word, behave.EmpTyger wrote:SC:
Your suspicions happen to align with who has the most votes and why they’ve gotten them, even to the point of contradiction. Why would you attack me for attacking Natirasha, when Natirasha is your second highest suspect?StrangerCoug [67] wrote:When two people are pretty high on my scum list, them both being innocent is simply not something I think about. I know that I could be completely wrong, and I may find people more suspicious than you two, but that's my current stance.
<snip>
That’s nice and vague. Which people- more importantly, who not?[/quote]StrangerCoug [cont] wrote:
Most people seem to be going pro-town about it.EmpTyger wrote:
Did you find anything?StrangerCoug [50] wrote:<snip>
I'll look at reactions when I check on my other games.
I thought Zakeri's and Caboose's responses were the most helpful, and BlondeSoWut seems to be pro-town. I don't like how Natirasha acted, but probably because I'm against massclaiming vig/non-vig on Day 1. I wasn't specific because I thought the town in general reacted in a pro-town manner.
I understand you here, but I don't remember saying town wasn't allowed to think out loud; in fact, if thinking out loud was forbidden, this game would go nowhere.StrangerCoug [cont] wrote:
I *strongly* disagree. To take an extreme example: in lynch-or-lose, then, you’d argue that a player should just cast a vote when they think they’re ready, and do nothing- no discussion of thoughts, no seeking of feedback until then? Of course not.StrangerCoug [78] wrote:It's very possible for townies to have bad ideas. Miserable ideas, even. But EmpTyger admitted that he didn't think it through all the way before bringing it up, and he should have thought it through all the way.
No, it is antitown to do nothing until you’re sure. That is how mafia get to not commit to anything, giving them maximum potential opportunism.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Natirasha is male.afatchic wrote:My next suspect is Zakeri:
However she hasn’t really posted much so I can’t really post much against her. But what I don’t like is her excuse to jump onto Natirasha. She uses the excuse because she has said she would be no help, which for multiple reasons is wrong.
I'm not a fan of getting the mod to eject people for refusing to be of any help per se, but there are some case where I find this warranted (e.g. the only thing someone's done all game is spew insults).afatchic wrote:2) this isn’t scummy in itself. And if she refuses to be helpful, get the mod to replace her.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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It doesn't and it never has. It mattered that Emp gave an ultimatum period. Why is this still unclear?Caboose wrote:What does it matter that Emp gave Nat an ultimatum?
Show me where I personally am giving another player an ultimatum.Caboose wrote:So wait a second. Giving ultimatums is a scumtell, and it's basically what you're doing.
Still think so. Scummy kind of pushy.Caboose wrote:What's your current stance on ultimatums being a scumtell?
To be grammatically correct, the fewest townpoints pretty much. I generally equate anti-town with scummy unless otherwise is obvious.Caboose wrote:So the person who deserves your vote has the most scumpoints or the least townpoints?
Yes, whether I like them or not.Caboose wrote:Is it possiblenotto have a few fluff posts in a game?
I will when you answer my question.Caboose wrote:Go down the list of players and tell me the people who have contributed to scumhunting worth a "squat" then, according to your judgement.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Both of you have acted suspicious.EmpTyger wrote:SC:
I'm not sure whether you're reaching to find reasons to consider me more suspicious than Natirasha, or bending over backwards to find reasons to consider Natirasha less suspicious than me.
How freaking hard is it to understand that I originally voted you for the ultimatum itself and I would have reacted the same at that point if you had issued an ultimatum against any other player in the game!?EmpTyger wrote:
So, you think Natirasha is suspicious- but vote me for voting him.StrangerCoug [93] wrote:<snip>
I don't like how Natirasha acted, but probably because I'm against massclaiming vig/non-vig on Day 1.
<snip>
Hence why I've looked at both of you.EmpTyger wrote:Then, when that doesn't work, you say that the massclaim is more significant, and vote me again- but you just said that Natirasha's reaction to the massclaim was also antitown.
You don't remember? Um, I *quoted* you saying it. As I just did again.StrangerCoug [cont, tags fixed] wrote:
I understand you here, but I don't remember saying town wasn't allowed to think out loud; in fact, if thinking out loud was forbidden, this game would go nowhere.EmpTyger [cont] wrote:
I *strongly* disagree. To take an extreme example: in lynch-or-lose, then, you’d argue that a player should just cast a vote when they think they’re ready, and do nothing- no discussion of thoughts, no seeking of feedback until then? Of course not.StrangerCoug [78] wrote:<snip>
It's very possible for townies to have bad ideas. Miserable ideas, even. But EmpTyger admitted that he didn't think it through all the way before bringing it up, and he should have thought it through all the way.
No, it is antitown to do nothing until you’re sure. That is how mafia get to not commit to anything, giving them maximum potential opportunism.
And, incidentally, you can't just wave your hands and say "I'm doing something that doesn't make any logical sense but I can't say why." It didn't work for McCarthy.[/quote]
Damn it, you got me there.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Yes.yorgi wrote:Also SC: I'm confused by one thing reading over you and Cabosse. Are you stating you believe Nat is scum?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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The 24 hour thing does have to do with my interpreting it as scummy, yes.Caboose wrote:
So the "24-hour" thing in Emp's ultimatum was the scumtell?SC wrote:It doesn't and it never has. It mattered that Emp gave an ultimatum period. Why is this still unclear?
OK then, we have differing opinions on what does and does not constitute an ultimatum.Caboose wrote:
You putting your vote is an implicit ultimatum, pretty much saying "Scumhunt or die."SC wrote:Show me where I personally am giving another player an ultimatum.
Random votes help get the game started; therefore, random votes ≠ fluff posts. If there's no content and no purpose for it, then it's fluff.Caboose wrote:
What's random voting for, then?SC wrote:Yes, whether I like them or not.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I interpreted the ultimatum as a scummy kind of pushy. Making demands may not be scummy, but I think being pushy like that is.Caboose wrote:It's still not a scumtell. But it is really scummy that you're jumping on Emp for something that is not a scumtell.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Making a demand is "Do this or else." Being pushy is being bossy. You don't have to make a demand to be pushy.Appassionata wrote:Whats the difference between making a demand and being pushy?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Will do:EmpTyger wrote:Okay, I think you’re just making your reasons up as you go along. It’s gone from “threatening to vote Natirasha” to “making an ultimatum” to simply “being pushy”. And from “suggesting a massclaim” to “not thinking something all the way through” to simply “thinking out loud”.
I want to you to lay out your complete case against me, now.Not just a list of what I’ve done; I want an explanation of why you think what I’ve done is suspicious. Because that part keeps changing.
Vigilantes are power roles. The benefit to the Mafia is that they'll eventually find out who the vig is by process of elimination. The odds of the town roleblocker hitting the Mafia roleblocker isn't very high mathematically, and I fear that the vig shooting real bullets will be found and even possibly dead before the town RB locates the Mafia RB. Which is why the consensus is that your idea is bad. The Mafia want the actual vig dead before the Mafia RB is blocked himself, do they not?EmpTyger wrote:I’m considering an immediate massclaim of vigilante/not-vigilante. Still tihnking through, but the way I see it:
1) We force the mafia to claim before they have a strategy.
2) The mafia don’t learn the identity of our powerroles. (The real vig is masked in 2 “vanillas”, the roleblocker is masked by 5 vanillas.)
The pushy ultimatum. Again, being pushy is scummy.EmpTyger wrote:Natirasha:
I'm giving you 24 hours to convince me not to vote you.
While I'm at it, prove that it mattered to me that your ultimatum was against Natirasha.
OK, I bought this. For me to attack this, therefore, is invalid.EmpTyger wrote:The ultimatum is because we are under a deadline situation and I see no advantage in waiting. Why do you think an unhelpful player should be tolerated?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I remember saying that I think Natirasha and EmpTyger are scum independent of each other.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Yes. What I mean by you two being scum independent of each other is that I think you two are scum for different reasons and I see no connection between you.Natirasha wrote:
Um...how? You realize there is only one scum faction, right?StrangerCoug wrote:I remember saying that I think Natirasha and EmpTyger are scum independent of each other.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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It benefits the Mafia more than the town.Appassionata wrote:Also, how is the idea of a "mass-claim" scummy, it has it's logical parts.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Today is the 11th and the game started on the 3rd, so that would mean someone would have been speedlynched. Didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure that either I'm the primary suspect or I'm mentally blowing the case on me out of proportion.BlondeSoWut wrote:Heyy. Finals week here. Soo crazy!!
Soo. What did I miss. Did we lynch anyone?
About 40 minutes away from a final myself, so wish me luck on that part.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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One, there's not a lot to talk about. Two, I'm debating whether or not this is WIFOM.BlondeSoWut wrote:Caboose, cus he followed the crowd with his vote and hes too quiet! And hes got no real reason for his vote. If I was in the mafia Id just vote for who everyone else is voting and stay quiet. Thats wut hes doing.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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EBWOP: I thought he was asking you about me instead of about Appassionasta, but the points still stand.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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BlondeSoWhat made an "I would do X as scum" statement, which is a classic component of WIFOM. I'm used to people trying to use WIFOM as a defense, but here it's an attack. WIFOM is still an effed up mind game.Appassionata wrote:SC - How would it be a WIFOM?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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So WIFOM can indeed be used as an attack, mrfixij?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Would using "I would do X as scum" as justification for voting someone for doing X him- or herself qualify as attacking someone with WIFOM?mrfixij wrote:
Please elaborate. WIFOM is essentially fluff that adds nothing to conversation except the illusion of thought. Or, in more realistic terms, the illusion of practical thought. WIFOM is neither pro-town nor anti-town, it's just shoveling.StrangerCoug wrote:So WIFOM can indeed be used as an attack, mrfixij?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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"Role playing"?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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...Do you even know what the hell you are talking about? I'll leave whether it's WIFOM to accuse someone of something you say you'd do as Mafia up for debate, but using your weak reasoning for suspecting Appassionata to put yorgi in a scummy light? Something is wrong with this picture.BlondeSoWut wrote:Heyy! I'm smarder than you guys thinkk!
I swear I think Apass is in the mafia! Hes doing exactly wut I would if I was in the mafia.
And if hes in the mafia so is Yorgi. He doesnt talk about Yorgi at all. He wants town peoples lynched. Hes not gunna waste his time on the other mafia peoples.
Unvote: EmpTyger
Vote: BlondeSoWutSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Yet there's nothing substantial backing up your saying so.BlondeSoWut wrote:Caboose Im only saying Yorgi is in the mafia if Apass is. I said so in case I die before Apass.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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The short and sweet answer is that it's their job, not mine, to prove their innocence. Me thinking about them both being innocent also doesn't fit with my aggressive play style. In theory, I could have a knife at everybody's throat, but I am rarely set off by an entire game. But if you want someone lynched, you push and push and push.xofelf wrote:
Why not?SC wrote:When two people are pretty high on my scum list, them both being innocent is simply not something I think about.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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The insubstantialness is that BlondeSoWut is using WIFOM to paint both of them in a scummy light. (I'm not denying that distancing is a scum tell; I simply have nothing with which to back their doing so.) Why I'm ignoring you all of a sudden, if I interpret you correctly, is because I think I have a more substantial case on BSW than on you.EmpTyger wrote:I could also ask what’s insubstantial about BSW’s observation that Apassionata seems to be ignoring Yorgi. Or, better, how come you’re ignoring me all of a sudden.
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Vote Count:
xofelf(0)
mrfixij(0)
chenhsi(0)
yorgi(0)
EmpTyger(1) - chenhsi
afatchic(0)
BlondeSoWut(2) - StrangerCoug, yorgi
StrangerCoug(3) - Caboose, Natirasha, EmpTyger
Appassionata(1) - BlondeSoWut
Zakeri(1) - mrfixij
Caboose(0)
Natirasha(2) - afatchic, Zakeri
Not voting(1) - Appassionata, xofelf
With 12 players alive, 7 votes will achieve a lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is January 3.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You missed BlondeSoWut's saying "If I were Mafia, I'd do it too", which is where I'm getting the WIFOM.EmpTyger wrote:SC:
BSW said, essentially:
“Observation: If Apassionata is mafia, then I suspect yorgi is too for <reason>.
<reason> = Apassionata seems to be ignoring yorgi.”
1)That’s not WIFOM.It makes absolutely no claim about how mafia would not act.
To me, insubstantial = with little or no backing. There's not much else I see to it. Of course I admitted the tell (in this case, distancing) as valid. However, I don't see anything solid to back it up. Apassionata could be distancing from yorgi by ignoring her, or yorgi simply may not have said anything to catch Apassionata's attention. yorgi is, however, voting BlondeSoWut for roughly the same reason that I am.EmpTyger wrote:2) I asked you what’s insubstantial about <reason> and all you could say is that the observation is insubstantial. In fact, you don’t deny that <reason> is valid- you admit that to you it’s a valid scumtell!
Natirasha's just plain anti-town. BlondeSoWut is painting two people in a scummy light based on how he claims he would be playing as Mafia.EmpTyger wrote:And, for good measure, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using your logic?
If I'm reading what you're saying in a negative way, it looks more to me like you're poisoning Natirasha's well than insubstantially using WIFOM, but to address your concern, I simply believe I can better back up my vote on BlondeSoWut than on Natirasha, though the latter hasn't completely gone away as a suspect.EmpTyger wrote:Once again you are finding a reason not to vote Natirasha… (let me guess, this is me insubstantially using WIFOM, right?)STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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How am I any more confirmable than BlondeSoWut?mrfixij wrote:I don't like the fact that Stranger is voting for BSW who is ultimately unconfirmable as of now.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Because I'm paying more attention to my case on her than her gender.EmpTyger wrote:Why do you refer to BSW as “he”?
Prove that, to be guilty of WIFOM, you must make a claim as to how mafia would not act as opposed to how they would act. Last time I checked, it worked either way.EmpTyger wrote:That’s *still* not WIFOM.It *still* makes absolutely no claim about how mafia would not act.
<reason1> is insubstantial in the first place.EmpTyger wrote:BSW made 2 observation:
1) She suspects Appassionata is mafia because <reason1>.
2) If Appassionata is mafia, then she suspects yorgi too, because <reason2>.
You argue that BSW is mafia because <reason2> is insubstantial in proving <statement1>. Which, compared to some of your more egregious illogical attacks this game, almost isn’t even worth attacking.
How is my answer not an appropriate response?EmpTyger wrote:
And, once again, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using that logic?StrangerCoug [cont] wrote:
Natirasha's just plain anti-town. BlondeSoWut is painting two people in a scummy light based on how he claims he would be playing as Mafia.EmpTyger wrote:And, for good measure, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using your logic?
<snip>STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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BlondeSoWut, acting like you're a paranoid person on caffeine isn't helping the case on you any.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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As suspicious as I find BlondeSoWut (for WIFOM, whether EmpTyger agrees with me or not), I agree that being stupid and annoying does not warrant a vote, and I see where you're getting the OMGUS accusation from. BSW screams more scum than village idiot to me, though.afatchic wrote:
OMGUS? Being stupid, or annoying does not decide alignment, fyi.Appassionata wrote:
You sound really stupid, and annoying.BlondeSoWut wrote:Emp, I really really really really want to win! Thats why Im playing! So Im trying to find out whos in the mafia. I think its App so I said that and I said why. I know I might die so incase I do, I said Yorgi could be in the mafia with App. I really am trying. I dont know wut more you want from me. I said who I think is in the mafia. I voted for him. I said why. I answered questions. Now people are voting for me. I dont get it.
Vote: BSW
Unvote, Vote Appassionata
As a side note, I think it's kind of ironic that I don't want to waste my time and energy on EmpTyger either.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You to control yourself, for one thing *facepalm*BlondeSoWut wrote:Really what am I doing wrong? What is stupid about the way Im playing? I said who I think is in the mafia. I said why. What more do you want? Really.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I've explained my actions to him all that I can and the only thing we seem to be able to do is disagree with each other.Caboose wrote:
Why are you being so dismissive?StrangerCoug wrote:As a side note, I think it's kind of ironic that I don't want to waste my time and energy on EmpTyger either.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You asked whether I kept calling BlondeSoWut "he". People do pay more attention to their own cases than the genders of who they're attacking, and while I have suspected Natirasha I have never had a solid case on him. Now we're bickering over stupid trivia that has very little to do with the game. That's why I'm done arguing with you.EmpTyger wrote:And, for those still thinking your responses legit:StrangerCoug [190] wrote:
Because I'm paying more attention to my case on her than her gender.EmpTyger wrote:Why do you refer to BSW as “he”?
<snip>StrangerCoug [95] wrote:
Natirasha is male.afatchic wrote:My next suspect is Zakeri:
However she hasn’t really posted much so I can’t really post much against her. But what I don’t like is her excuse to jump onto Natirasha. She uses the excuse because she has said she would be no help, which for multiple reasons is wrong.
<snip>STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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This is where the "disagreement" part comes in. I say WIFOM is a claim as to how mafia would or would not act; you think only the latter constitutes WIFOM. To use an example (that obviously doesn't apply to this game, but still gets the point across), you'd think that if a claimed doctor survives the night, the claim must be false. But what if the Mafia decided to roleblock him? What if the Mafia decided to do nothing seeing as he or she is acting suspicious enough that there's a chance to mislynch him or her? Are there not elements of WIFOM involved in this scenario?EmpTyger wrote:4) Falsely accused a player of WIFOM.
True story: Open 81. I was driven to claim vig on Day 1. The Mafia attempted to kill me Night 2, but I was protected by the doctor. Subsequently the Mafia decided that I was to their benefit despite being cleared (since that's what you get for announcing targets) and that the doctor had done suspicious enough things to warrant being kept around. Both of us made it to LYLO. End result? Vanilla townie gets mislynched and the doctor and I force the game into a draw. Do you not think WIFOM was involved in keeping the doctor especially around?
First of all, prove that, by consistently using the masculine singular pronoun to refer to BlondeSoWut, I know BSW's true identity. For BSW to be female would mean that the gender displayed next to his/her posts is incorrect. Natirasha's gender is not relevant to my case on him (regardless of my case's solidity); that would be sexist. That's why I'm dismissing the gender issue as "stupid trivia", and I'm still confused as to why the hell you're bringing up two of my references to other people's genders and twisting them to make them sound related when they are not.EmpTyger wrote:5) The point to the gender slip was that eitheryou know BSW’s true identity (implying that you talked with her about it pregame) or you were lying about how seriously you were considering Natirasha suspicious.FoS: EmpTyger
The mafia RB being blocked was simply something I failed to account for when I jumped at the massclaim issue.EmpTyger wrote:Also, just noticing that you never responded to this:EmpTyger [154] wrote:<snip>
I can’t think of why you care, or why you think the mafia care that much whether the mafia roleblocker is blocked. They get slightly less information, but that’s nothing to do with whether the real vigilante is dead or alive. Really curious where you’re going with this.
<snip>STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I did not say I don't payafatchic wrote:Stranger- if you don't pay attention to peoples gender sign, then why would you assume Blondesowut is male?ANYattention to people's genders. I simply said I paid more attention to case than gender.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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It's simply a bad habit that many people have to automatically assume people on the Internet are male.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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That's my question to EmpTyger.Appassionata wrote:
Why the heck does that matter at all?afatchic wrote:
Obviously you didn't pay attention to it, so why did you assume someone by the name blondesowut would be male?StrangerCoug wrote:
I did not say I don't payafatchic wrote:Stranger- if you don't pay attention to peoples gender sign, then why would you assume Blondesowut is male?ANYattention to people's genders. I simply said I paid more attention to case than gender.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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If BSW is an alt, then I don't know who it's an alt of. Even if I knew or were to figure out for the life of me that an account is an alt, I for the life of me wouldn't know how to determine who it really is. Looking at this from a third party's point of view, it makes more sense for EmpTyger to attack me with the alt case than the gender case. EmpTyger's gender case is invalid for reasons I've already stated; implied inside knowledge is a scum tell and I would be able to see where he'd be coming from in terms of that.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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*grumble, grumble* That's what I get for mistaking her with you. But no, they are not the same as his "gender case" also involves Natirasha.afatchic wrote:I think the Alt case, and gender case are the same thing aren't they? he is saying you know that persons alt because you continually call them a male when gender says female and everything about the name says female, which would imply you know something more than we do, either by RL friendship, or scumbuddies.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Points 1-3 are conceded.EmpTyger wrote:SC:
Are you conceding my points 1-3, or are you hoping that if you ignore them and only talk about 4 and 5, people will forget about the rest?
That is absolutely false. This is saying that I think, for example, OMGUS is a subset of WIFOM. They're both scum tells, but I know them to be distinct. What set me off is that BSW said she'd do what Appassionata was doing as scum herself. The case itself does not constitute WIFOM.EmpTyger wrote:4) [WIFOM]
The relevant argument would be that mafia would *not* leave a claimed doctor alive, so yes of course that's WIFOM! (And if the mafia *do* kill the doctor- then there's *no* WIFOM! You can't secondguess something that did happen, only what didn't happen. I mean, seriously, consult a script of Princess Bride: the WIFOM scene is about how Vizzini making various inferences about how his opponent would *not* put the poison in glass A, and *not* in glass B.)StrangerCoug [215] wrote:<snip>
To use an example (that obviously doesn't apply to this game, but still gets the point across), you'd think that if a claimed doctor survives the night, the claim must be false. But what if the Mafia decided to roleblock him? What if the Mafia decided to do nothing seeing as he or she is acting suspicious enough that there's a chance to mislynch him or her? Are there not elements of WIFOM involved in this scenario?
The way you are trying to twist the definition of WIFOM, every time someone accuses someone else of doing something suspicious, it's WIFOM.
I'm not going to address the goddamn gender issue anymore since you and I should both know by now that it's crap. I just admitted to mistaking BlondeSoWut with afatchic and therefore the former's gender. Natirasha, regardless of my case's solidity, never had anything to do with my confusion. May we move on?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I already explained what had happened at #226.afatchic wrote:FOS based on meta... nice. i just want him to explain how he knows BSW is a guy, since its obviously an alt. account.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
Unvote: BlondeSoWut, but I'm not voting Appassionata until I see what the case on him is. It doesn't look like I'm lynching EmpTyger today, but in the event of both him and me surviving Night 1, that's the first person I'm looking at.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
Current avatar by PurryFurry of FurAffinity.
What Were You Thinking XV! is in progress.-
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
- Does not Compute
- Does not Compute
- Posts: 12457
- Joined: May 6, 2008
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
I thought (and still think) EmpTyger to be more suspicious than Natirasha. The latter seems to be doing quite nicely under the radar, though. In fact,yorgi wrote:Why if you feel both Emp and Nat are scum independant of each other did you never vote nat?mod: Please prod Natirashafor not posting since the 13th.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
Current avatar by PurryFurry of FurAffinity.
What Were You Thinking XV! is in progress.-
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
- Does not Compute
- Does not Compute
- Posts: 12457
- Joined: May 6, 2008
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: San Antonio, Texas