Open 139 (Lovers Mafia) - Over! before 781
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Crazy Mafia Scum
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Crazy Mafia Scum
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I didn't random vote you in that game...orangepenguin wrote:
Uh...link. Lynch all liars.Crazy wrote:Wooh!
To be honest, I've never read nor played in a Lovers Mafia game before... *shrug*. But anyway, it's exactly like polygamist without all the townies being lovers.
I'llVote: orangepenguinbecause he's the other male and last time I random-voted him, he was scum.vote: Crazy
I was referring to here.-
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I said that last time that I random voted you, you were scum. Last time I random voted you was in that game, not the game you referenced.OP wrote:The game I linked was a lovers game, which you and I both were in. You were quite prolific in that game day 1, but ended up being town.
As for the game you linked, why do you and farside always bring up THAT game? That is definitely my least favorite game ever on this site. Not my best play, regardless of role. You just happened to get lucky that time. This time, you aren't quite so lucky with your random vote.
Just a reason for a random vote.-
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Oh, okay. Well, I meant this particular setup, since this is a very popular setup that I believe has been run about 2-4 times in the past.orangepenguin wrote:
But you said you never READ nor played in a lover's game. But you have. So that is what I am talking about.Crazy wrote:
I said that last time that I random voted you, you were scum. Last time I random voted you was in that game, not the game you referenced.OP wrote:The game I linked was a lovers game, which you and I both were in. You were quite prolific in that game day 1, but ended up being town.
As for the game you linked, why do you and farside always bring up THAT game? That is definitely my least favorite game ever on this site. Not my best play, regardless of role. You just happened to get lucky that time. This time, you aren't quite so lucky with your random vote.
Just a reason for a random vote.-
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Why? Was I not correct? If a stupid scum hammers me, we lynch the stupid scum tomorrow and win.ZazieR wrote:It's not a knit >.<
It's raising his eyebrow...
And I'm using that emoticon to show that I'm suspicious of his last post.
VOTE COUNT
(3) Crazy - orangepenguin, ZazieR
(1) orangepenguin - Crazy
(1) ZazieR - Plum
(1) Chief - kirroha
Not Voting - Chief
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
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I didn't think the scum would hammer me. I assumed you just put me at L-1 to jumpstart discussion, thinking nobody would actually hammer. But I did want everyone to know I was at L-1, so I wouldn't be accidentally hammered by a random vote.ZazieR wrote:
Exactly. And that's why it's suspicious. If you believe that the scum would hammer you, why would you post:Crazy wrote:Why? Was I not correct? If a stupid scum hammers me, we lynch the stupid scum tomorrow and win
'Scum hammer me, so that the town can lynch you towmorrow '
It makes no sense for any townie to say that.
Also, by posting this, it makes every player scared of hammering you in case you're town, because it would make that player suspicious as it's now assumed that scum will hammer.
These two reasons make your post suspicious.
Basically, I didn't think it was a big deal, because I didn't expect the scum to hammer me anyway.
About your second point, hammering someone in general is not scummy; but on the 3rd page, it is.-
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I don't mean now; I meant after Zazie put me at L-1.kirroha wrote:
Everybody has already random voted, and also posted. So there's no need for you to worry about being random voted for. Also, I think everyone already knows that you're at L-1.I didn't think the scum would hammer me. I assumed you just put me at L-1 to jumpstart discussion, thinking nobody would actually hammer. But I did want everyone to know I was at L-1, so I wouldn't be accidentally hammered by a random vote.-
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Scum, for sure. Since when is hammering someone on Page 3 not obvscum?Zazie wrote: -If someone would hammer you now, would you think that player is scum or would you think he/she is town? Why?
I often see people get paranoid when people are at L-1 for no particular reason. I don't have any problem with Chief's reaction.Zazie wrote:-Do you think Chief's unvote is justified regarding her reason? Why?
Hammering now, yes, because that will be indicative of scum.Zazie wrote: -Do you agree with me that the way you wrote your first post regarding my vote, gives a kind of defence as players will be afraid to hammer you? Why?
Hammering later, after a bunch of discussion is a different story, because then there will actually be evidence and such.
We have only 2 lynches this game. If we lynch town, we severely cut down our chances of winning. No amount of kickstarting discussion can really justify that.Zazie wrote: Also, the Sens-way is following two things. I've followed the first, what do you think of the second (lynching random)?
(question to everybody)
Please include why.-
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*shrug* I never consider there to be a concrete change between RVS and non-RVS. I do think we're mostly out of it, though. Unfortunately, this game is inactive.kirroha wrote:Our game is quite inactive. I presume that RVS is not quite over yet?
OP, your last post didn't comment on anything that was being said. Anything to say?-
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Well... it might make them worry about hammering me onkirroha wrote:But that also makes others worried about hammering you, so you won't get hammered. Still, I doubt if anyone is stupid enough to hammer at page 3.
This game is moving way too slowly.Page 3!Hammering someone with evidence isn't bad, but on Page 3, yes, it is.
Well, this isn't a newbie game.ZazieR wrote:Well, newbie games have disproven this statement
But anyway, both you and Chief agreed with this, so I don't see why both of you were so cautious.
And I don't particularly think I was cautious... unless you mean about making a note that I was at L-1... but there I was afraid that someone would accidentally hammer me, not conciously hammer me.
So you're saying that you'd approve of a random lynch right now? Really?ZazieR wrote:I disagree. Scum loses when one scum gets lynched. When a random lynch is started on scum, the other will disagree and try to get somebody else lynched. So a random lynch gives information as we can disclose some pairings. Use Plum's plan day 2, and we'll have lots of possible pairings eliminated.-
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Though I too think that having no discussion is ridiculous, a random die roll cannot be influenced by scum, but a random wagon can be.Plum wrote:The dice roll is not optimal. 'Random' 2 is less problematic, but I believe that demanding more concrete reasons for suspicions and votes is the way to go.
If we need a random lynch, we need apurelyrandom lynch. But of course we shouldn't need a random lynch at all.-
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I still don't get how that makes me scum... it seems your issue is that I'm town and I'm alerting the scum not to hammer me. I'll admit that could be perceived as anti-town (though I don't think it's a big deal), but how it makes me scum I have no idea. If your issue is that I'm alerting theZazieR wrote:I have no troubles when someone points out that he's at L-1. I do have troubles when someone plays cautious by adding that scum could hammer, but that that would result into a town win. I've discussed this already in previous posts.scumnot to hammer me, then that implies that I'm town, doesn't it?
If your issue is that I'm alerting thetownnot to hammer me, well then, that's easy to see from a town point of view, right? Assuming I'm town, and stupid townie hammers me on Page 3, then they'd be lynched tomorrow and scum would win.
So what is really making me scummy, here?-
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Yes, I got that much. But I gave you a reason:
Of course I don't want town to hammer me on Page 3! Whether I'm town or scum, either way it would lead to a loss!Crazy wrote: If your issue is that I'm alerting the town not to hammer me, well then, that's easy to see from a town point of view, right? Assuming I'm town, and stupid townie hammers me on Page 3, then they'd be lynched tomorrow and scum would win.
So what is really making me scummy, here?-
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Lurky. Not much content. That's pretty obvious. I was also suspicious of you and kirroha, because I think your guys' case on me isn't founded on solid ground. I'm pretty null on Chief and Plum seems pro-town.Zazie wrote:Also, when will you state your reasons for thinking that OP is suspicious, and what about stating your other suspicions with reasons?
Did you even read my post? I asked if your issue was if I was trying to getZazie wrote:Uhm, you weren't thinking about a townie hammering when you wrote this:townnot to hammer me orscumnot to hammer me. I defended myself from both arguments.
So I take it that means your case is that I was trying to getscumnot to hammer me, right? If that's not what it was, then tell me, just so I know what to defend from.
I'm assuming the former now, that you think I was trying to getscumnot to hammer me. Well, if I'm scum, why do I have to worry about scum hammering me? Why do I need to convince my scum partner not to hammer me?! It makes no sense!
Your move, Zazie. I think I can win this duel.
Unvote
Vote ZazieR-
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Where did I lie? If you're talking about ZazieR's accusation, reread please. I wasn't sure what her case was so I covered both possibilities.orangepenguin wrote:unvote, Vote: Crazy
Lynch all liars.
If you're talking about the stupid "I've never been in a Lovers game before," I meant this particular setup, not any game with Lovers in it.-
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Wow, more from Plum.
Anyway, I agree with her almost completely; I just hope she's not buddying up to me for some reason.
It's no secret that I want to lynch Zazie. If she's not scum, then I'll admit I don't really know where I'm going. OP is incredibly scummy, but he's playing similar to his normal play anyway (from what I've seen from it, anyway.)
Plum seems unquestionably pro-town, and I really want to hear how OP gets a scum vibe from her.
Kirroha is agreeing with Zazie a lot... if Zazie's town I have no idea what that means.
Chief doesn't have any particularly strong scum-bonds with any of the other players, but I'd like to hear more from her/Kmd (if she's replaced) in the future.
All this assuming Zazie is town. If Zazie is scum, then we don't have to worry. And I'm about 90% sure she's scum, anyway.-
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Yeah, you know if you just quote the last two sentences of a post that includes a vote, it always looks like OMGUS. Did you see how flimsy Zazie's logic is? And how when after I voted her she hasn't showed up, despite posting lots elsewhere on site?Kmd wrote:OMGUS much?
VOTE COUNT
(2) Crazy - ZazieR, orangepenguin
(2) ZazieR - Crazy, Plum
(1) Chief - kirroha
(1) kirroha - Kmd4390
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
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On further thought, I don't like Kmd's post at all. His logic for voting kirroha is entirely Process-of-elimination, simply because she has the most possible scum-partners. Now this isn't too bad on it's own, but his logic for ruling out possible scum-partners is based on rather flimsy WIFOM (scum wouldn't buddy this hard, or scum wouldn't distance this hard, bleh) Assuming that scum will never put each other at L-1 is a very long stretch, especially considering there hasn't been an imminent threat of a lynch until recently.
The other thing, what Kmd said about Kirroha being scum because of having so many possible scum-partners also applies to Chief, don't you think? I mean, from Kmd's standpoint, that's fine, but from the rest of the town, we would have to assume that Kmd is town in order to believe his logic on Kirroha, otherwise, it applies to both of them.-
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Because Zazie wasn't clear, and I wanted to cover either response from her.Kmd wrote:So either you were worried about town hammering or you were worried about scum hammering. Why defend against both? Why not say which is the case and just defend against that point?
But, anyway. At this point, the post is more defense than attack. So I won't consider this part of your case.
Zazie stated that the issue was that I was scaring scum away from hammering me. Read her post, here:Zazie wrote:Not the point. You basically said that anyone who hammers you is scum. Zazie clearly pointed out why that was scummy. It scares anyone away from hammering. It allows you to stay alive. If you are scum, it allows your game to continue.
Why would scum need to stop other scum from hammering them? Craplogic = Scum = Die, Zazie.Zazie wrote:ZazieR wrote:Uhm, you weren't thinking about a townie hammering when you wrote this:
LAL?Crazy wrote:Scum can go ahead and hammer me, btw. Especially in a setup where the town wins if they find just one scum.
Unvote Vote Crazy
I didn't make any real notes of all possible scumpairs, Kmd, because both Chief and Kirroha didn't have any extensive interaction with anyone. They could both be scum with a lot of different people... but does that make them more likely to be scum period? No.
I think Zazie is the scummiest person in the game for her incessant craplogic (read her posts, seriously, Plum can see it.), and I could easily see her partnered with Kirroha, OP, or you, not by the way of "no-interaction", but by the way of "scum-interaction." That is why I am voting for her.-
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I wasn't worried about either. I said what I said for no particular reason. I was worried about Zazie's argument against me. I didn't know what exactly it was, so I covered both possible arguments to save time.Kmd wrote:That wasn't my point. Were you worried about scum hammering or town hammering? And if you meant one and she meant the other, why should you even bother defending whichever wasn't even what you meant in the first place?
Well, I thought she might have thought that I was talking about a scum hammer, but really trying to scare off townies from hammering me, as someone (kirroha, I think), said. Still, I covered both defenses.Kmd wrote: What she pointed to is that YOU were talking about a scum hammer originally and then YOU started to talk about a town hammer. The inconsistancy is yours here.
I don't see her saying that you were scaring scum away from hammering.
I'd think OP/Kirroha, or maybe OP/you.Crazy wrote: Ok, fair enough.
What are your thoughts if we lynch Zazie and she flips town?-
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Well, I'm dead pretty soon. Ah well. So stupid.
It was the random stage. Zazie put me at L-1. I had to sayKmd wrote: What? You implied that anyone who hammers you is scum "for no particular reason"?something!
You expect me to ignore an argument against me?Kmd wrote:Why exactly were you so worried about her argument?
Crap cases don't deserve defenses? That's ridiculous!Kmd wrote:And I'm gonna just go ahead and say this instead of asking the same thing over and over. I don't see any reason why you would have to defend yourself from something that is false. It looks like scum who is paranoid that there is a case against them and is trying to hurry up and defend before it gets unmanagable.
I strongly think Plum is pro-town. So, now, like obviously, we can't be scum because we're buddying too hard, right, super-logic-man?Kmd wrote: So you mention OP in both pairs. Not likely scum with you if we go to tomorrow and you attack OP. You DON'T mention Plum. And you mention Kirroha and myself once. Assuming you follow this, Crazy/OP is even more unlikely than it was already. Crazy/Plum becomes slightly more likely. Crazy/Kirroha stays about the same.
Also, to prove that I'm not kirroha's partner...
Unvote
Vote Kirroha
See, now I can't feasibly be any partner by your logic! Doi.
Unvote
Vote ZazieR
Neither argument is good. As town, I don't want townies to be quicklynching me. But Zazie's argument was the other one, btw.Kmd wrote:Now that's the real argument. You were scaring off townies. Not scum like you said in your last post.
I'm going to be lynched. No way Kirroha is going to change her mind. Inactivity by other players is what caused my lynch, seriously.-
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Well, they weren't as bad as OP... and OP's posts were more devoid of content.ZazieR wrote:As for somebody who thinks lurking is scummy, I wonder why you didn't mention Chief or Kirroha when they were inactive.
I'm getting "players" scared to hammer me? What players, town or scum? I gave a defense for both.ZazieR wrote: My argument isn't about that. You're making players 'scared' into hammering you. That's my point. That's why I think you're scummy. Scum has reasons for this, while townies don't. Especially when you think that a hammerer on page 3 would be obvious scum, this is scummy as hell.
I do. When I'm positive or nearly positive somebody is scum, then I like winning duels. In Open 119, I had a very enjoyable duel with dejkha. Or you could see Paris Mafia with Kmd.ZazieR wrote: 'I think I can win this duel'. Why has nobody giving any comments to this? Do townies think about winning a duel? This is not a townie speaking
By your logic, anybody that uses the word "flabbergasted" must be scum because there's no real reason why a townie would use that word.ZazieR wrote: You weren't thinking that a townie would hammer. A hammerer would have been obv scum to you. Therefore, it doesn't make sense for you to include that in your defence. You 'warned' someone who would be obv scum to you. Give me one reason why a townie would do that.
That's why I said it was a lie. You were according to you not thinking about a townie hammering. The hammerer would be scum to you. So I don't see any reason why to include a townie hammerer into your defence.
See, you don't look for what doesn't have townie motivation... you look for whathasscum motivation. Tell me, if youaretalking about scaring scum not to hammer you, thenwhywould scum need to scare theiry scum-partner into not hammering him? Scum usually don't need convincing to not hammer their partner, you know.
I'll admit making that post wasn't for any strategic purpose, but do you expect everything in the RVS to be that way? You have only explained how it doesn't have town motivation; you haven't explained how it has scum motivation.
You and Kirroha have both been holding the same opinions, here. OP voted me with no content or explanation after you had made your case.Zazie wrote:State why you think these teams.-
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Yes, I said that scum would hammer me. Of course town wouldn't. But what's your case; I provided defenses for either, but you're ignoring them.Zazie wrote: You said that scum would hammer you, not town. That's what I was saying.
What's the reason that you think Kevin can be scum with me?
So the case now is that I was trying to scare off townies from hammering me? I assumed it wasn't when last time I brought it up, I got a vote for lying.Zazie wrote:Isn't this what I have been saying all along?
Anyway, nobody wants town to hammer them. If I'm town, and a townie quickhammers me, then they'll be lynched tomorrow and we lose. See, perfectly reasonable town-sided explanation.
I'll admit it might not have been a great thing to do, but it seems to me that you're voting me just for doing something anti-town, but not scummy. I've provided reasons either why it doesn't make sense for me to do that as scum, or why I would possibly do that as town.Zazie wrote: That's why you 'warn' scum. Makes lots of sense Rolling Eyes
There were lots of possible responses, yet you choose to 'warn' scum.
Besides, it doesn't make sense at all as you didn't even think about a townie hammering. You said, scum would have hammered. Not buying the excuse written in the above quote.-
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OP stated his suspicions without backing up them up with anything. To me, that's worse than just lurking... especially seeing how Chief got replaced.Zazie wrote:Chief got prodded, while OP didn't. So how was OP worse? And OP has stated his suspicions. Can you say that for Kirroha?
Well, the thing is, your accusation wasn't any good in the first place. It's common sense that townies aren't supposed to quick-hammer people. What's wrong with making a note that I was at L-1, so that nobody will hammer me accidentally, since I was sure thatZazie wrote: Town. And your defense is BS as you never thought of a stupid townie hammering. Besides, I don't see why you'd post that if you're a townie as you said that the hammerer would be scum. Why 'warn' the scum if you're a townie?nobodywould do it intentionally! (Town won't, unless you're Nat, and scum won't because then they'd be lynched Day 2.) I didn't think I would be quick-hammered, unless it was by a stupid townie that didn't watch the vote count. My post "warning" the scum was sarcastic; I never expected them to hammer.
I only duel with people whom I think are scum.Zazie wrote:It's not about winning duels. It's about lynching scum. I see that statement as 'give up your attacks against me, or you'll feel sorry'
Not "hammer." "Quick-hammer." You keep ignoring the difference here. Nobody is going to quick-hammer me intentionally. I made my post to make a note that I was at L-1, and just to startZazie wrote: You've said that you think that the hammerer would've been scum. I'm taking over these exact words when I mention my point against you. Of course, it makes no sense for scum to say that.
However, if townies think that other players will look at them as scum if they hammer, they won't hammer as they are 'scared' that the lynched player is town. So it makes perfect sense for scum-Crazy to say, but not for town-Crazy.somediscussion, so nobody would accidentally hammer me.
Obviously hammering someone after pages of discussion isn't what I was referring to in that post. I meant quick-hammering, and you know it.-
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You're right if you substitute "hammer" with "quickhammer." Hammering someone after pages of discussion is fine! Quickhammering someone is never fine, regardless of alignment. You're right; I wasn't thinking about town quickhammering me... but to be honest, I wasn't thinking about scum quickhammering me, either. The only thing I was even remotely concerned about was someone not seeing I was at L-1 and accidentally quickhammering me.Zazie wrote:In response to your last post. If you were hammered, you would have thought that it was scum. You were never once thinking that town would hammer you as you said in the above quote. So this is NOT the case at all:
See, I don't always say what I mean. My post was sarcastic; I didn't expect anyone to hammer me. The post was 50% randomness/50% making a note that I was at L-1.
The reasoning that I would possibly say that as town is that I wasn't worried about either scum or town quickhammering; I said it in the spirit of the random stage, and to make a small note that I was at L-1 to stop a stupid townie from inadvertantly quickhammering me.
After saying this, your "Lynch all Liars" post has merit; however, your original case still doesn't.-
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Further on this, my original defense for "warning" townies not to quickhammer me was an oversight on my part. See, I wasn't worried about townies consciously quickhammer me, yet, your case implied that. I defended against the possible scenario that ICrazy wrote:After saying this, your "Lynch all Liars" post has meritwasdoing that instead of saying how I wasn't doing that.
But the thing is, the original defense still works. You're saying, as scum, I was trying to warn townies not to hammer me. The thing is, I wasn't even warning townies not to hammer me, but I provided an adequate defense even if that was the case. If as scum, I was talking about townies hammering, then why couldn't I be talking about that as town? It's true, I wasn't, but I actually could have bluffed it and said Iwastalking about that. Townies don't always say what they mean, after all. If, as scum, I said that to warn town not to hammer me... how do you know I couldn't have done the same thing as town to warn town not to hammer me? It's true; I wasn't, but it works.-
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Crazy Mafia Scum
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Crazy Mafia Scum
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Kmd, I'm just being realistic; no use begging now. I now think I should have pushed harder on a Kirroha lynch rather than a Zazie. My final thoughts:
I think Plum is pro-town. OP really needs to clarify his case on her, because I don't see it at all.
Rereading her recent posts, and her past posts, Zazie is actually probably pro-town. Yeah, sudden switch here, but except for her original case on me, her logic is actually decent. I also don't think most scum would have the guts to put someone at L-1 in the random stage.
Kmd, I'm not sure about. His vote on Kirroha is rather questionable... but if he was scum w/ Zazie, he'd probably just have voted me. He could be scum with OP, though.
I have no idea how to read OP at all... sorry
If Kmd is town, then Kirroha is almost definitely scum. However, I don't believe they are scum together, or else Kmd is really playing this well.
Scumpairs, IMO, with 5/5 being most likely.
Kirroha/OP - 5/5
Kirroha/Kmd - 2/5
Kirroha/Plum - 2/5
Kirroha/Zazie - 3/5
OP/Kmd - 5/5
OP/Plum - 2/5
OP/Zazie - 4/5
Kmd/Plum - 2/5
Kmd/Zazie - 4/5
Plum/Zazie - 1/5-
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Crazy Mafia Scum
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Deadline is tomorrow. I'm dead, OP. The only way I'm not is if me and Plum quicklynch Kmd right now, but if he's town, then that would just lead to our lynch tomorrow.
Seriously, if you want to WIFOM stuff, you could conclude that I wastownby the way I'm acting now! I've been looking more pro-town in my most recent posts than I have been all game, which is why I was shocked by Kmd's vote.-
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Crazy Mafia Scum
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Crazy Mafia Scum
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Wow, that could have ended up messy if Kirroha had continued posting. I saw the original post as a joke, but if she continued to push on Kmd, then the game would have to have been restarted.
Still, very good job, scum. Plum being on my side and Kmd on Zazie's side worked brilliantly. Stuff like that makes me regret not posting much on my scum quicktopics in the past.
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