Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[Peabody]

Are we restarting the game?

Harumafuji

because his name is complicated.

Mod's Note: This post is non-cannon and therefore not part of the game

[Peabody]

I mean

vote harumafuji

Mod's Note: This post is non-cannon and therefore not part of the game

[Peabody]

Dang it, I need to get a random vote in before discussion starts:

vote mathcam

because I suck at math.

-----------------------------------

Ok, now onto other things:

If the point of RVS is to get discussion rolling, why is hoopla already at L-2? Something fishy is going on. Honestly, I'd say I agree with CoCo, le Chat and Col.Cathart on this subject. A L-2 is not good this early.

Vaya, was your vote on hoopla random?
------------------------

Charter, why are you getting a town reading on Hoopla and Vaya? Can you please point out specific posts that make you come to this conclusion?

[Peabody]

This is a pretty terrible vote. "Before discussion starts"? You're only two pages late on that score... are you sure that it's the only reason? Vote: Peabody

Yup, I'm sure its the only reason.

Harumafuji, I don't see what's wrong with my wording in the quote you bolded.

Hoopla's reaction to the wagon on her wasn't scummy, so I'm leaning town on her. Pretty much every post of Vaya's I've agreed with, so town there as well.

Charter, I fail to understand your reasoning for calling both Hoopla and Vaya town. I hardly heard anything from hoopla, and the Vaya reading seems a little weak. You said you agree with everything Vaya said so far? Honestly, I find some of Vaya's posts a bit disagreeable. Can you please point out which post exactly you are referencing when you say you agree with Vaya?

Unvote; Vote Charter

[Peabody]

This is a pretty terrible vote. "Before discussion starts"? You're only two pages late on that score... are you sure that it's the only reason? Vote: Peabody

Yup, I'm sure its the only reason.

Yeah that question was (obviously) kind of rhetorical. I'm really after a response to two questions: firstly, why you made the "random" vote in the first place when there had been 2 pages of discussion already on which you could have made a "real" one and secondly, given the aforementioned 2 pages of discussion, why you thought "before discussion starts" was an appropriate thing to say when that boat had clearly sailed.

This is my first game where I'm not a replacement on this site. I wanted to experience the RVS. Also, I do not believe my "before discussion starts" comment was so unbelievable. The only events that transpired was the questionable argument back and forth between Vaya and Coco. Many of you have already said the conversation was useless.

Charter, I fail to understand your reasoning for calling both Hoopla and Vaya town. I hardly heard anything from hoopla, and the Vaya reading seems a little weak. You said you agree with everything Vaya said so far? Honestly, I find some of Vaya's posts a bit disagreeable. Can you please point out which post exactly you are referencing when you say you agree with Vaya?

Unvote; Vote Charter

This is another questionable vote. Are you always this jumpy?

I wouldn't say this is a questionable vote. I was applying pressure to Charter to hear an explanation, not much unlike many other player's jumping around. Nearly everyone in this game has made 2 votes. In fact, one player has even posted 3 votes.

[Peabody]

You were asking him to point out a post he was referencing because you find some the person's points whom he was agreeing with "a bit disagreeable". I really can't see how you could justify voting for him to raise the pressure with a question as mild as that.

Honestly, I don't understand why my vote has to be "justified". It is a pressure vote at best. Votes are the best power of a townie, and I want to take a closer look at charter. Charter has a way of hiding behind the arguments.
=================

If the bandwagon could be found suspicious by "someone in general,"why vote for the person that acts upon it?
What makes me suspicious for doing something you agree is possible?

Classic WIFOM. Are you the type of person who would put the poison in his own chalice? Your argument is void.
================

Just something to point out. I know this isn't much but examine carefully the wording of Cyberbob's post:

Gut, mostly. It

feels

like a

bunch of townies

getting really caught up in shaking their fists at each other

without anyone really having done anything scummy.

I didn't say that you're all townies, I said that that's what the argument

feels

like. I consider that kind of an argument to be a null tell. This may seem a bit contradictory but there you go.

I don't like your word choice. It "feels" like a bunch of "townies". If I were to take a wild guess, I could see how a member of the mafia could 'feel' that there is an argument among townies. Word choice is crucial in detection of mafia. Obviously, its not the best point, but something to pay attention to.
==================

I know this was asked already, but:

Unvote, vote: Talitha

Why? You vote then you go V/LA.. When you get back, this needs to be explained.

[Peabody]

Just something to point out. I know this isn't much but examine carefully the wording of Cyberbob's post:

Gut, mostly. It

feels

like a

bunch of townies

getting really caught up in shaking their fists at each other

without anyone really having done anything scummy.

I didn't say that you're all townies, I said that that's what the argument

feels

like. I consider that kind of an argument to be a null tell. This may seem a bit contradictory but there you go.

I don't like your word choice. It "feels" like a bunch of "townies". If I were to take a wild guess, I could see how a member of the mafia could 'feel' that there is an argument among townies. Word choice is crucial in detection of mafia. Obviously, its not the best point, but something to pay attention to.

What's wrong with that wording? It's Day 1. Except the mafia, no one KNOWS anything, so feeling and thinking is all that left. Actually, now when I'm looking at it, I think it's completely opposite from what you said. Mafia member won't 'feel' the argument between the townies. A scum knows his fellows, so he doesn't need to 'feel'. He's the one who knows. Townie (what's wrong with the word 'townie' btw? Seems like a common used name for pro-town guys, so I don't know where you're getting at) on the other hand, without any knowledge, must use his guts (feeling) or head to analyze (thinking).

In short: Please explain this to me, because in my opinion, it doesn't make any sense.

I don't know, just the whole wording of the post seems forced. The post gave me a bad feeling in the gut. I did tell you all that it wasn't the best point. I feel that I ought to contribute my observations if I believe something isn't quite right, don't you agree?

[Peabody]

And I do agree with the strangeness of Harumafuji's posts. He seems like an alt to me.

[Peabody]

Sorry, I'm only just catching up properly on all the posts.

This is my first game where I'm not a replacement on this site. I wanted to experience the RVS. Also, I do not believe my "before discussion starts" comment was so unbelievable. The only events that transpired was the questionable argument back and forth between Vaya and Coco. Many of you have already said the conversation was useless.

You can't really experience the random voting stage if it has already passed. Forget what "many" people have said (and I would dispute that it really was "many") ...

are you saying that nothing had happened by the time you made your random vote that was even remotely interesting, comment-worthy, nothing that made you even slightly suspicious of any of the other players at all?

I actually did comment on the conversation before my post. Please see my post. You skewed the details a bit.

[Peabody]

Peabody, yeah, you did comment on the quick wagon in your first post (82), and also questioned charter's town read.

I can kinda see your first post as a joke-ish "must get a random vote in, before jumping into the debate" - but in post 126 you actually defend it and imply it wasn't a joke and it really was before discussion had started.

I probably would have unvoted you by now except for this apparent contradiction.

Talitha, I suppose I'm just not understanding why you think I have made a contradiction. Yes, I did say "before discussion starts", but I do not see this as scummy. I was RVSing because I wanted to participate in RVS. It's fun. Why is it a contradiction to contribute to the discussion AND make a random vote for fun?

--------------------------------------------
CoCo is looking quite scummy to me now. I didn't notice this at first, but as Cyberbob pointed out, he was getting quite emotional in his opinions about the early bandwagon. In regard to his "defending" me, I am unsure whether to take this as an attempt to buddy up or whether he really is convinced of my innocence.

Charter's early read still sticks out in my mind.

I don't think mathcam is scummy enough to warrant a vote, but I do urge him to contribute to the conversation more, please.

[Peabody]

Sorry guys, I have school. I'll read up on this and contribute soon.

[Peabody]

Sorry again for inactivity. I'm currently going through the thread and writing up a case.

[Peabody]

This is iso-talitha. More later on other people.

Talitha – She was the first vote in the random vote stage. Her view on the bandwagon on Hoopla was that it was good. She didn't know what to think of CoCo, and she voted me based on my random vote. This was the only input she had in the game until Hoopla voted for Talitha.

Definitely WIFOM.

I don't see this as a pro-town post. CoCo notes that she is being WIFOM and she expressed her frustration on being called out. Isn't it considered pro-town to weigh the hard evidence? Instead, she based her vote on conjecture (which is okay), and then defended her conjecture by attacking CoCo (Not okay).

After Hoopla explains his vote is to get more content out of Talitha, she says ”Why?” What??? This doesn't make sense to me, sorry. Did you really just ask why Hoopla wanted more from you?

Okay here she explains she's a mom of 3 kids who is just busy. That's fine. We all have a real life. The only problem I have with this post is you questioned why you needed more content.

Points out her agreement with the oddness of Haru's posts.

Ok, now, here is where Talitha begins her case against me. She ignored the fact that I contributed to the discussion in the same post as my random vote. Here, she acknowledges that I did contribute, and I defended my random vote . This leads her to believe that I am contradictory.

The problem I see here is your case is flawed. You first say that I random voted without contributing. Then you acknowledge that I did contribute. I have problem seeing how this isn't picking and choosing from my posts and deciding what to use and what to ignore. Upon retrospect, I understand your next post against me. In this post, you say that I'm being contradictory. I understand your reasoning here, but obviously I disagree. My random vote WAS a joke. Hence, it was in the beginning of my post where I contributed to the discussion. Hence, I don't believe I contradicted myself.

Here She shows her interest/suspicion on both mathcam and Hoopla. Further, you indicate your suspicions on mathcam and on Hoopla.

More stuff against hoopla . Honestly, I see this as a seemingly pro-town case.

I am unable to get a clear reading on Talitha. Most of her posts are emotionally charged, but I'm beginning to see the logic of her cases.

[Peabody]

This Sensfan talk is getting nowhere. He was V/LA, so it's not helping discussion at all. I honestly doubt he was lurking.

[Peabody]

In a perfect world, someone else would have placed the L-1 vote right after the L-2 vote was placed.

Wait... what? SensFan, maybe I can understand this better if you answer this question. What, in your opinion, is the point of an early bandwagon? Secondly, would you be content if Hoopla was lynched right away during the day one phase in the beginning of the game?

I don't even think Sensfan is scummy because of it.

Coco- What

exactly

led you to change your mind about Sensfan? Not even two pages ago, you were drilling him for making a suspicious vote and then leaving.

Hoopla - Going with Sensfan's point, I'm starting to see a pattern. You are pushing cases consistently based on "policy" votes. Haru did translation party, Sensfan for lurking...

I want that observation out there just for the record. I'm not meaning that comment to be contesting your judgment, but I'm sensing a pattern. Behaviorally, who do you think is mafia?

[Peabody]

Charter, a majority of your posts are one liners, but I would not call this 'active lurking'.

Col.Cathart has ended up posting a lot more than he used to. Charter, I'm not sure that Col.Cathart has actually admitted to 'active lurking'. He admitted to not paying attention earlier in the game:

And I quote

Now, you're twisting my words. I admitted to not paying attention in early game.

Charter, it seems as if you are twisting people's words around. Also I see you conveying LOTS of emotion in your posts.

[Peabody]

Hey guys, I'm gonna read up on what I missed. I got school. Sorry guys. I'll post tomorrow at the latest.

[Peabody]

I'm so happy with my vote on you it hurts. The response to the charge against Hoopla having "pushed a case" on Haru and Sens has been covered multiple times already. I really don't know why you would pretend as though it hasn't been (I'm making this assumption based on the fact that you didn't actually mention it).

I like to think allowed on the forum. When I find something to be interesting, I point it out/repeat it.

Peabody having an RVS vote when serious discussion had well and truly gotten underway is a huge copout and incredibly lazy.

Please read my vote again. Within the same post, I contributed to the discussion about the bandwagon. Please tell me how this is a 'huge copout' and 'incredibly lazy'. I think you are overexaggerating your point, giving it more validation than it deserves.

My initial vote on Peabody wasn't too strong; I would have in all likelihood unvoted if he'd passed it off as a joke or something. But he didn't - he defended it seriously as a "serious" random vote and went on to pursue a rather OMGUSy attack on me besides that ended up being one of the biggest contradictions I've ever seen.

I'm assuming that this post is what you are referring to as my contradiction, le Chat and Cyberbob?
Someone please explain to me how this is a contradiction. I wanted to point something I saw as suspicious, even if it is a weak argument, and this is consistent with my gameplay the entire game so far. If I notice something, I mention it. I hope that answered your question in post 337, le Chat.


About the charter/Col battle, I'm still not seeing a contradiction in Col.Cathart's play. He acknowledged that he hasn't been posting much

because he hasn't been keeping up with the thread

. Furthermore, Col.Cathart has been making great posts with a lot of content and a lot of questions which is more than you can say about charter (although I don't believe charter is actively lurking).

Charter:

Normally we would policy lynch someone like this, but seeing as that's a poor idea in this game (many actively scummy people more deserving of a lynch), I propose that we just ignore everything he says until he shapes up. Cold Shoulder. 100%.

Not a very protown move in my opinion.
---------------------------------------------

@Peabody re 289: What made you choose Talitha to iso? And after your entire iso, you don't even have an opinion on her. Do you think that was a good use of your time? And who are you going to do next, if you continue?

As I said above, I like to think aloud. Also, I do not regret posting an iso-Talitha because I was able to make observations that perhaps not many people have seen. There was something scummy about her behavior in the beginning of the game, so I wanted to investigate aloud (which no one really commented on the iso. I was hoping someone would at least make a comment about it... disagreeably or agreeably).

If that's not enough I can link you to games where I as scum am extremely active. It's not my alignment that affects my posting rate, it's my RL.

I really don't like people saying, “Hey, look at my meta!” as if it clears them because it doesn't. People change playstyles all the time. I'm not saying that there is no value to meta, because there definitely is, but I wouldn't accept it as canon.

SC: I can understand your point about timing of my responses. It is kinda true. I don't really have a brilliant answer except that I'm having difficulty getting into this game and I've also had limited energy. When I see something directed at me it firstly seems like a priority to answer it, and I find it pretty easy to do, so I can do it even when tired. Talking about other people and their actions seems to require more thinking and energy, and I havent got into the swing of it in this game yet unfortunately.

I think your point here is valid, Talitha. Whenever someone has an accusation leveled against you, its easier to respond quickly.
------------------------------

Because Charter's later behavior in my eyes and Sensfan doesn't seem to blow his defense out of proportion or make attacks at me because of my theory, Charter's vote is the scummiest of the last three votes.

Coco, please explain which of Charter's behavior makes him scummy to you.

Mathcam and Charter: I find it ironic two of the people I dogged the hardest over the early bandwagon fiasco are arguing over my playstyle. Going so far as to suspect each other! Who's to say this isn't a distancing effort?

You pushed a hard vote for mathcam and charter about the early bandwagon? Where?

Upon writing all this, I find Col Cathart much scummier, so
unvote, vote Col Cathart

Classic example of your vote hopping. You've done this plenty of times. Explaining why you made each individual vote does not deter from the fact you've seemingly tried to make a case on several players, reversed stances, and generally give off a scummy vibe to me. [/quote]
I would be careful who you call out for vote hopping...

------------------------------------------------

I would still prefer a CoCo lynch, but Unvote: CoCo, Vote: Charter.

Why?

Look, I don't know CoCo is scum (I'm still suspicious that Charter might know he's not, FOS: Charter), but I do know that if he is, we're never going to catch him unless we make him answer questions. The best way to do this is through voting pressure, and while my vote alone won't do it, it's a start.

I'm willing to jump on this bandwagon.

unvote; vote CoCo

Peabody, what are your opinions about CoCo?

CoCo is very aggressive and outspoken. At first, I believed Coco was pro-town because he took a long time on his summary post, which I saw as protown, even though I fail to see the reason for such a post. Now, after mathcam's willingness to bandwagon, CoCo's tendency to avoid questions, and his very emotional arguments make me lean toward scum. I am voting CoCo to see his response. So far I am inconclusive.

Okay. Regarding Mathcam. Unvote. I probably should have made an FOS: Mathcam instead of going to a vote. I definitely think Charter is still the scummier of the two. Vote Charter.

CoCo's case against charter is very questionable... I do not agree with any of his points against charter in his post. None of them are a compelling case either..
------------------------------

Not at all liking this post from SC, for reasons completely unrelated to those quoting; just gives me a vibe of massive amounts of noise, hoping to obscure the fact the little signal there is isn't very pertinent.

I disagree. SC's posts have been quite helpful and well-thought out. It's hardly 'just noise'.

Haru's votes were legible, Haru's suspicions were legible. I'd prefer someone posting like Haru did to someone posting like your mammoth post was, yes.

.. I'm failing to understand why? SC's suspicions are also legible. What do you have against him?
-------------------------------

Something else I am extremely curious about, Peabody, why is your vote still on me? From what I gather, you voted me because I felt Vaya and Hoopla were town and didn't give any reasons for that. I will
unvote, vote Peabody while he cooks up something good in response. It pains me that Col Cathart is escaping scrutiny, but his scumbuddy is just as good.

My vote on you was more of a pressure vote. My case against you was mostly the early reads, but its also the one-liners. Your interaction with Mathcam and Col.Cathart also raise suspicion to me. You accuse

FoS SensFan

due to his unimpressive recent attacks on SC.

Sorry about the walls of quotes and all. About the coco vote, I'm willing to switch to SensFan if it proves worthy (which that looks promising so far).

[Peabody]

Peabody, are you accusing me of vote hopping? The quote was messed up in both my post and yours.

Yeah, I was just pointing out that you switched your vote multiple times within the last couple pages. And you vote charter on the grounds of vote hopping?

I'm also curious as to where I've

recently

dodged questions.

So you acknowledge you were dodging questions?

Here are some questions you just dodged:

Coco, please explain which of Charter's behavior makes him scummy to you.

[quote="CoCO]
You pushed a hard vote for mathcam and charter about the early bandwagon? Where? [/quote]

CoCo, you said a while back that you don't feel like Peabody is scum. Please explain your reasons.

coco wrote:
1. You jumped on the Hoopla bandwagon.

And? Why is that scummy? I'll preempt the inevitable 'trying to get a quicklynch' BS argument by pointing out I unvoted Hoopla less than two hours after I voted. Bandwagons are protown.

Please point out where I gave this reason when I voted Peabody, because you're inventing it.

4. You vote Cathart during a strong wagon.

What does this even mean? If it means that I vote Cathart because others are and I'm just jumping on the wagon, then this is once again, completely false. When I voted him, I was the only one voting for him.

These are all questions you failed to answer...

You are notorious for avoiding questions... Answer them.


--------------

You're being incredibly obtuse here. You used almost literally the exact same language in your attack on my position as I did in that position. You came out swinging against my usage of terms such as "feels" rather hard, then - when questioned - immediately switched to "oh it just feels suspicious to me".

Quote me. Where exactly do I do this?

[Peabody]

Wait, you answered the first one, sorry. But the other ones you didn't.

[Peabody]

I'm not a fan of the charter wagon right now, in no small part because I think there's at the very least one Scum in {SC, Col.C, CoCo}.

Why those three?

[Peabody]

Link me please. It would be a lot easier than searching through the posts.

I really appreciate it.

[Peabody]

Quote me. Where exactly do I do this?

Your initial reaction to my post:

I don't like your word choice. It "feels" like a bunch of "townies". If I were to take a wild guess, I could see how a member of the mafia could 'feel' that there is an argument among townies. Word choice is crucial in detection of mafia. Obviously, its not the best point, but something to pay attention to.

Then, when Cathart made a very good post questioning this line of attack, you responded with this:

I don't know, just the whole wording of the post seems forced. The post gave me a bad feeling in the gut. I did tell you all that it wasn't the best point. I feel that I ought to contribute my observations if I believe something isn't quite right, don't you agree?

Asking people to quote you in order to prove their point only actually works as a defence if you didn't in fact say what has been attributed to you.

That makes more sense to me now. I understand why you believe I was being a hypocrite. My bad, Cyberbob. I recant that argument I posed against you, although I don't believe that will change your vote on me. I was just pointing something out that I had a gut feeling on.

Also, somehow CoCo has managed to appear very reasonable the past couple of pages -- I'm not sure what to make of this.

Really? He has been vote hopping and laying down FoS's everywhere. Not to mention his case against charter was no good. Also, again he avoided the questions I quoted.

Maybe he's not seeing them or reading them?

ATTN COCO: Answer my questions in post 454.

[Peabody]

CoCo, I realize many of the questions are outdated, but I want you to at least acknowledge them...

[Peabody]

I am pretty sure Peabody is scum and two of the people not voting him and ignoring him are his buddies.

Ummm, what makes you so sure there are 3 mafia members? When I was mafia during the first try, there were only two. Its pretty odd that you come to this conclusion prematurely.

[Peabody]

Interesting. To the contrary, I think we'd get tons of delicious information to digest if we lynched CoCo.

Cam

I'm curious.



Charter's case against mathcam is no good and scummy at best.

CoCo's erratic play makes me want to lynch him. I can't read him at all if he keeps acting the way he does. He is most likely scum based on the fact that he ignores questions, flip-flops, and builds weak cases. If he's town, I don't see how he is helping us.

Talitha is most likely town. I believe her claims on not having time to read the thread. During my iso-talitha, I've determined that although she was scummy at first, she is generally protown with her questions and baiting techniques.

SC is probably town. SensFan, I don't understand your case against SC. Your accusation that he is full of hot air doesn't fit well with me. He has been contributing a whole lot in my opinion.

[Peabody]

I really don't want to claim right now, and to be honest, I don't think I'm going to be lynched today anyway. Of course, anyone can hammer now, but I would be useless if I claimed anyway. Once I'm convinced someone won't jump off my wagon, I'll claim.

[Peabody]

It seems to be a pattern that someone is always indecisive..

[Peabody]

I'm mafia. I give up, and screw you Vaya for bussing me.

[Peabody]

Wowie! Great games guys.

I thought for sure that Cyberbob's bus on me would give him some easy sailing. This was true until the mass roleclaim.

Good job town for a job well done. Kublai, thanks for modding this game, it was really a great game!