Mini 847 Murder in Zachtown (Game over!)

[Sotty7]

Vote: Jason

Calling you by your first name just feels

wrong

.

[Sotty7]

BM has been busy all day. He will also kick your ass for talking about his game which is still ongoing. He did mine in our 5pV

Anyway, I've been mastinesque all day with my writing, so why let up on that now...having a mastin day

Vote Haylen

Claim: Gigantic Rubber Ducky

Please don't post like Mastin. I will cry.

[Sotty7]

Each to their own. Personally, that style drives me bat shit crazy.

[Sotty7]

Well, is the RVS over?

You unvoted, so I guess you think it is.

Not that is a good reason to unvote, why did you even vote in the first place if you were just going to pull your vote once RVS was over?

[Sotty7]

I dunno.

Vote: KittyMo

because her name sounds cool.

Not good enough.

Unvote, Vote: CSL

[Sotty7]

Can we get a prod on BattleMage?

He confirmed yesterday. I will give him another 24 hours before I prod him.

Also please bold prod requests from now on.

[Sotty7]

@BM
:S. Your confirm vote makes me confused. I smell jester play or sarcasm. What's your case on BM?

Why not scum play? And did you really just ask BM to make a case on his self?

[Sotty7]

@Sotty7

I don't see anything scummy other then a WIFOM/AtE reasoning trap if you try and consider: "Oh scum wouldn't possibly vote himself during the RVS". It's just a WTF-tell at the moment since I can't come to a solid conclusion here.

What about you, do you see anything scummy?

Voting for yourself is a null tell really. Scum or town could do it this early in the game, doesn't mean anything apart from you being an attention whore (;)) But you brought up jester play, why? I am always suspicious of the player who mentions a jester over possible scum. A townies focus is on catching scum and so normally their mind goes right to Scum over Jester.

Also this has been bugging me for ages, what does AtE stand for?

Battle Mage is a bit trickier....Yes, Self-voting is usually seen as scummy, but his posts seem more like jokes than anything, and I know many people who would do that quite often and find it to be hilarious - even more hilarious if they were lynched.

Why do you think self voting is scummy? You could have a point about CSL and newness to the game, right now I am trying to push him into doing more than going with the flow.

[Sotty7]

Also this has been bugging me for ages, what does AtE stand for?

Appeal to E

ggnog

motion. It's not a universal tell-it varies with the player. For me, it's a towntell, but for others, it can be scummy.

Thank you. I figured it was this, but it was bugging me after reading various games with it in.

Now now, he didn't say that, did he?

Well he said that it is usually seen as scummy, in the context he said it I thought he agreed with that statement. If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure he'll correct me.

Where do i know you from? You seem familiar, but i cant remember a game we shared.

We were both in Election mafia but I was pretty much a non factor there. I'm also pretty sure we played together ages ago when you first came to the site, I don't remember the game myself, it was a couple of years ago.

[Sotty7]

No, i think he was saying that because it's normally seen as scummy, me doing it is slightly protown, or at worst, null.

Hmm well if this is true then reading fail on my part.

And a proxy vote? Ooh exciting.

[Sotty7]

Anyways, we need to quit with the stupid proxy crap and the stupid let's-find-every-opportunity-to-complain-about-being-banned crap.

I approve of this message.

What is your meta on Neto KittyMo?

Haylen, is your vote serious?

[Sotty7]

Had a busy few days lately. I will catch up here by the end of the day.

[Sotty7]

VOTE-HOPPER. That's a scumtell. BIG scumtell. I was about to unvote you, but look at that.

Why is it a scum tell?

Look, we're not going to get anywhere with BM around. His posts are absolutely ridiculous - the lunatic scryings of a madman. We've been through 8 pages of discussion and what have we learned? Zilch. Some newbie games went to completion - and won - in that amount of posting. Therefore, both because I think he's scum and I think it's a good policy, I have to

Vote: Battle Mage

While some of the posting was over the top and annoying I can't agree that we didn't get anything from it. BM's points on Maemuki are pretty good considering. Add on to that CSL's strange behavior and yet you still want to claim we have nothing?

Excuse me, but you need to stop being a player hater. We are not learning enough from you at all. So get serious, and stop your joking around, or I'm going to scream.

You do realize that posts like this make things

worse

not better?

Oh come on, BM, don't pull that fatalistic crap. The 'case' against you basicially amounts to "BM offended me/someone else, and that is a scumtell" and you can't put up a fight?

The worst townies are the ones who give up too early.

And how do you know he is a townie?

You might not like me, but i think deeming me a hindrance before you've given me a chance is harsh. How about you give me the benefit of the doubt and help run up Maemuki?

Unvote my Evil Twin, and we have a deal.

lol,

Unvote

*shrug*

BM

?

1) Battle Mage seems to think that he can simply put a vote on someone without reason and expect them to claim. Is this scummy, or is it merely meta? If it is meta, how should we interpret that in-game?

2) There were several players who seemed willing to proxy their votes based on a joke. This seems rather reckless to me, but what are your takes on that?

3) Does the note from the mod and BM's response imply anything about his role? It seemed odd when I first read it.

4) What is your general playstyle and meta, since it seems to be rather important in this game?

1] I think it's just meta, I don't think that player should claim. Meta can be something players hide behind, for now I am just keeping an eye on him just like I am with the other players.

2] Seemed like RVS silliness to me. A bit reckless maybe, but the mod wasn't going to count them unless that player voted too. I think as the game wears on we can look back and see who was willing to do that as it might help us get a read. But for now, I don't think there is too much to make of it.

3] I don't think so.

4] I'm a question asker I suppose. I like to poke and probe people to try and figure out motivations. I'm not much of a spammer and I when I post there is normally a game related reason for it. I'm more about using a players actions and words to see if they are scum over gut. If I get a “gut” feeling on someone, I will try and quantify that as best as I can.

Your turn to answer Neto.

1) Battle Mage seems to think that he can simply put a vote on someone without reason and expect them to claim. Is this scummy, or is it merely meta? If it is meta, how should we interpret that in-game?

Well, I wouldn't say he doesn't have a reason for voting. He's right; Maemuki is scummy.

BM isn't voting her any more. I would like him to explain why.

I'm happy with my vote on CSL at this point

The boards need to stop crashing every time I try and go to a new page.

[Sotty7]

@ Jason: BM has explained his vote on Maemuki pretty well, did you just skim?

Right now I want to concentrate on finding out why BM is so hell for leather on getting Mae lynched

I thought it was quite obvious, really. Am I seriously the only one who is seeing what BM is seeing?

No. I saw it.

Right now I want to concentrate on finding out why BM is so hell for leather on getting Mae lynched

I thought it was quite obvious, really. Am I seriously the only one who is seeing what BM is seeing?

Well, if you or BM would like to point out what I and others are missing I would be more than willing to listen and consider.

BM ISO read posts 31, 38, 40, 45. I shouldn't have to do this for you.

[Sotty7]

I agree with Nikanor. I want to see some Maemuki posting at this point seeing as most of the discussion is about her.

[Sotty7]

....Do I look like a robot to you? No? Great, that's because I'm not.

So what do you want me to do now? I jokingly said to CSL that lurking is my trademark - I lurked a lot, so you see, I said that as a

joke

. It wasn't funny - but you guys are really intent on lynching me, right? Then let it be, I'll keep trying to defend myself....I am curious though on how everybody is tunnelvisioning me. The scum are still out there, you know?

And, I rarely say stuff clearly. If you don't like it, I don't care.[/i]

You do realize that no one is voting you right?

[Sotty7]

There is no wagon on Maemuki because you stopped voting her. I like your case and her reactions to it are stressed out. I want to see her thought out defense before I decide to move my vote or not. The fact your unvoted because CSL asked you to is pretty strange.

CSL replacing out is annoying and if anything a slight scum tell. He recently replaced out of my game in a similar fashion and was scum.

[Sotty7]

Ah! Let's get to it! Yellowbunny, explain CSL's actions please.

Yellowbunny can't explain CSL's actions unless she ate his brains. What she does need to do it get in here and give her opinions on the players and the game so far.

[Sotty7]

I know that it's leaning me towards thinking of you as either town or scum, but I just can't put my finger on whether or not......

This doesn't make any sense.

[Sotty7]

Sorry I didn't notice we flipped to another page, I completely missed this.

There is no wagon on Maemuki because you stopped voting her. I like your case and her reactions to it are stressed out. I want to see her thought out defense before I decide to move my vote or not. The fact your unvoted because CSL asked you to is pretty strange.

My vote alone is not really a wagon. And it's completely and utterly useless. Clearly she is feeling a bit of heat, but i get very impatient with towns that arent willing to move their votes around a bit on Day 1 especially.

I'll go back to questionning her later, i'm sure, but for now, i think we're better off moving on, than completely stagnating.

If YOU want pressure on Maemuki, how about YOU vote for her?

I agree on the CSL thing, but i was a bit out of sorts, given the amount of heat i was getting. I'll concede my reaction was more anti-town than anything, but in practice, it really doesnt matter. My vote was effectively on Maemuki, and now it isnt. I was just trying to stop him from tunneling me.

There are two reasons my vote isn't on Maemuki. The first is CSL and his actions in this game. He did a lot of nothing, came under some slight pressure and then bailed, just like my game where he was scum. I am happy with my vote on that player slot right now.

The other reason was because despite how much you were pushing Maemuki you weren't voting her. You unvoted because CSL, another player I find scummy, asked you to and you never put it back on her. Even after CSL started to lurk and then asked for replacement. Makes me believe you don't believe fully in your case in the first place.

[Sotty7]

Just a heads up, I don't post much here on weekends. Simply because I'm not sat at the computer for most of the day.

My best guess on his play is that he is suffering from "damsel in distress" syndrome. (Since I've noticed a disporpotinaly large number of females in this game as opposed to most others I've played (yay!), feel free to back me up on this, as I'm sure you're quite familiar with the signs of this syndrome). I read his reaction as him seeing a female in trouble, and getting overly defensive about helping her out. Regardless of how you feel about such actions (and gender roles and things of that nature), I doubt anyone will argue with me when I say that for a fair number of men, this sort of behavior is is a knee-jerk reaction -- much in the same way that men will open a door for a woman, feel that they need to pay for both on a date, carry a bag/package for a woman, ect. Now, of course, what CSL did was not pro-town in the sense that it can be interpreted as some sort of in-game relationship between the two, plus he is defending a player based on nothing more than gender...but a foolish move does not always imply scum.

Hate to say it, but I think this reasoning of CSL actions is bullshit, I don't see any evidence of CSL defending Maemuki simply because of her gender. Correct me if I am wrong, but he just doesn't see the case on her. The fact she is a female seems inconsequential to that.

When you say i "dont believe fully in my case", what you actually mean is, "i'm not 100% convinced in it", amirite?

Besides, you shouldnt be voting based on my opinion of my case. If YOU believe my case had merit, you vote on that.

It means that you didn't believe what you were saying enough to vote, yet at the same time you were complaining about the lack of wagon on her. Those two things don't add up.

I also think that Sotty and CKool have been rather light on the content. While others have posted few times, they've posted few times with little substance to those posts. They might be good ones to consider as well.

Are you seriously putting me in with ckool? I have been posting content, I suggest you look back again and do another read. I have also asked you to answer your questions you posted a while back, something you haven't done. Also, are you just going to ignore everyones answers or was there a point to the questions that will lead to some analysis?

Where is Maemuki?
Ckool needs to get in here and post actual content
Ditto Haylen.
I am trying to sort out between BM v Yellowbunny. I can't shake the meta I have on CSL but BM's actions don't match up to his words. I find that scummy.

[Sotty7]

BM's whole "zomg, you're a COUPLE!" indicates to me that he thought gender was something of an issue (I believe he would have framed his attack differently if it were not for that). Also, I remember reading at least one other player commenting on CSL "flirting" with Mae. I don't have time to go and find the quote atm, but if you want me to, I will. And I am not saying that CSL thinking the case on Mae is wrong wasn't a part of the reason he was defending her -- I think the gender thing is what pushed this from being simply "BM this doesn't make sense" to his white-knighting.

But this came after CSL initially said he didn't like the case. BM then started grinding on him and implying he was flirting with Mea because of this. If anything BM tried to make out that CSL was white Knighting when he just didn't agree with the case.

I don't find CSL suspicious for defending Mea right now. Maybe later if she flips scum, but to me it's like he didn't believe the case. He wasn't white knighting then. What is scummy about him is the shear amount of posts he made without posting actual real content combined with him flaking out. I just don't think you can take all of CSL scumminess, call it white knighting and be done with it. It just doesn't work that way.

@Sotty, if 'unvote my evil twin and you've got yourself a deal' isn't white-knighting, what is it?

Eh... Stupid? Okay, fine maybe there was a little bit of it at the end there, I just don't buy it as an explanation for everything and I don't think it started out that way.

sorry to ask is just a phrase really, I didn't know it and asking makes me come across as dumb.. hence the sorry to ask... its a local thing here probably

k, accepted.

BM

Why would i need an explanation for saying 'sorry to ask' though.

Because it sounds weak and could be seen as an attempt to fit in. I know you so I know this is how you normally talk so I have no issues with it.

@ KittyMo
378: I'm curious to see why you didn't vote but chose to do a HOS. It's a pretty heavy case to bring out.

I didn't vote because I'm having trouble deciding whether ckool can really be that newbish or if he's scum.

And I'm kinda preoccupied by my internal struggles with BM and the fact that the more this game continues, the more scumreads I get on people. =S I don't think I've ever had this many.

Why not just vote your number one target then? Or is everyone equal on your scum reads?

the more scumreads I get on people. =S I don't think I've ever had this many.

Scumreads on whom?

To put it simply: Sotty7, you, and DTMasterall giving me this lurker-scumvibe. Maemuki, CSL, and ckool5000 are all very scummy, & Jason Mastin-posts, so it's difficult to read him. Haylen and BM confuse me muchly. I am planning to get a larger analysis than that written out soon, though.

Can't wait. Maybe then you'll see I'm not lurking.

@ Town,

School came up, and my legs (and brain) aren't working very well. D: Which sucks.
Post coming up tonight, and this time, string me up if I don't make it.

Will be more than happy to. Have been waiting for you to make a content post for awhile now.

Happy birthday BM

[Sotty7]

Wait, CSL

didn't

replace out of his other games? This strengthens my meta read on him more than anything. See this game for details: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12237

Also Maemuki promises a post and doesn't deliver again. She also needs to die.

[Sotty7]

What question?

[Sotty7]

I also think that Sotty and CKool have been rather light on the content. While others have posted few times, they've posted few times with little substance to those posts. They might be good ones to consider as well.

Are you seriously putting me in with ckool? I have been posting content, I suggest you look back again and do another read. I have also asked you to answer your questions you posted a while back, something you haven't done. Also, are you just going to ignore everyones answers or was there a point to the questions that will lead to some analysis?

[Sotty7]

Oh, sorry, I forgot to answer that. At the time of posting, you only had 4-5 substantive posts. You've since improved.

I was refereing to my question about your questions. I realize that you have answered some of what you asked the other players to answer, but some you haven't. Are you planing to ever answer them yourself? Was there a point to the questions, because you have ignored everyones answers.

I agree with all of DTMaster's post 464.

Fine, fine, I'd be OK with a YB lynch, I guess...She's about as good as anybody at this rate. In re: Hito, though, the reason that I was reluctant to attribute CSL's actions to her....

Well, I wasn't going to say it...but CSL is an idiot. His play was exactly the same as it was in my other game with him...While I guess it's possible that he COULD be scum in both games, I think it's probably more due to lack of experience/skill/whatever. If you folks feel so strongly about a YB lynch, then go ahead, but I stand by my assertion that she's not guilty.

Are you saying he played the same in your other game with him AND he was scum? Your wording is confusing me a little here.

Where's Maemuki? She needs to quit lurking and provide some thoughts on the game.

Fixed. Stupid right arm and it's tendency to break.

Anyways.

Regarding CSL's play, he's very defeatist. I mean - just look at his meta.

Anything else to say or comment on? The deadline is days away and twice you promised posts only never delivering. Who are your scum picks? Why?

[Sotty7]

And I have no idea if CSL was/is scum in the other game (He asked to be replaced, then took that request back). All I'm saying is that his gameplay was similar - he COULD be scum in both, but it is statistically unlikely. My point is that his actions may not be indicative of a scum PM, just indicative of bad play.

Okay, I didn't realize it was an ongoing game. We shouldn't be talking about it.

Ok, fine. Sorry, I was hoping you could tell me which questions in particular you were so nervous about. Since you're so desperate for my answers, though...

You do realize Jason and myself are two different people right? I wasn't nervous about any questions, I wanted you to take some ownership of the ones you asked everyone. Not only did you ignore me twice when I asked about them but you did nothing with any of the answer players offered up. At this point I believe you just threw those questions out there to make it look like you were doing some scum hunting, almost like a distraction.

As for why I've not been doing more scumhunting, it's mostly because I kept getting shouted down by BM and company. I've become increasingly frustrated at having to ask people for reasons for their actions and trying to point out logical inconsistencies that I'm honestly at my wits end over this game. I'm very close to asking to be replaced just so that I can find a game that has a bit more sanity to it.

Ridiculous.

BM and “company” (who is the company exactly?) shout down everyone they disagree with. That's the whole point of this game. We aren't all going to agree for one reason or another. Asking people for reasons is another part of this game we call mafia. You are basically complaining because you have to pay the game? How does that even work.

jasonT1981 - I find his rather spurious attacks over the last few days to be suspect. Especially his very, very odd analysis of the whole "sorry to ask" thing. It's a common enough phrase. Do you really need to jump on it like that? It seems as if he's a scum who's trying to lynch just about anybody right now.

Err, you realize that BM analyzed the sorry to ask thing right? You have this point wrong.

Mod: We need some prods. Haylen, BM, KittyMo maybe. Those are just off the top of my head.

[Sotty7]

Due to the deadline, I guess I'd be OK with a Maemuki lynch....She has been acting oddly scummy and particularly unhelpful. That being said, I'm going to withhold my vote until a bit closer to the deadline, just because I want a few other reactions first.

If there was no deadline, who would you be pushing us to lynch?

I like the Maemuki wagon that has built up over the last few posts. She has been lurking and seems happy enough to allow yellowbunny to take all the CSL heat even though she was a big part of that whole exchange. Still I really want to see Yellowbunny's detailed reasons for her switch over. the hop looks a tad opportunistic to me. Vote stays for now.

[Sotty7]

Ungh, the specter of 'out of game information' rears it's ugly head...as I said before, I'm really reluctant to lynch an active player with so many lurkers. That makes lurking a 'winning move', because of course someone who's posting content can have their posts dissected while people who are not posting never say anything scummy! For now, my vote's going to stay where it is. I know that a no-lynch is bad for town and because of the chaining you've mentioned we could get some information off of a Neto lynch, but to be quite frank I'm not currently comfortable lynching neto and giving scum a potential don't-talk pass. It will depend in part on what Haylen and Maemuki say, if anything. (and ck-replacement, if he/she is here before deadline.)

QFT. I wish my vote was on someone else, but I may be biased because I <3 Neto.

You have control of your vote....

Trying to write a wall of text on why Day 2 will be much harder if you guys lynch me. Half of it is done.

Day one better.

Trying to write a wall of text on why Day 2 will be much harder if you guys lynch me. Half of it is done.

Well, that settles it. Nothing would please me more than having fewer walls and more relevant discussion.

Unvote, vote: Maemuki

Seriously? The promise of a wall-of-text is what gets you to move your vote? For all you know she could come out with great points and it turn out to be useful. But to shout her down before she posts is ridiculous.

I find myself agreeing with what BM posted back in 519, however the doc claim makes me think twice about a possible Neto lynch. Unless there is a counter claim or it's a deadline situation, I won't be voting for him today.

[Sotty7]

Okay I am happy with my Yellowbunny vote at this point. It's almost as if she knows Mea will flip town and wants to use that to clear her, even floating the idea of her being the lynch the next day if Mea flips scum. She seems to be on the Mea wagon because it is not her wagon, unless you have some

real

suspicions of Mea you would like to voice Yellow? Because all I got out of your 535 was that we should lynch Mea to figure out what alignment you are. I would rather lynch you to see that.

[Sotty7]

I explained my logic for stating that why town would consider a CSL/YB-scum, Mae-town combo is improbable, but the basis of your quoted statement is that very combination. Explain to me how a scum CSL defending a town Mae makes ANY KIND OF SENSE AT ALL. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but atm your assertion seems illogical.

I don't see why Mea town you scum combo is so improbable. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't hyposcum CSL defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? In this case he is clearly looking for town points if Mea ever flips townie. Plus with BM being BM maybe CSL really thought the Mea wagon would take off. You say all this is improbable, I don't agree.

If that is all you got out of the post, then you missed a big chunk of explanation and should reread it. I have three paragraphs dedicated to why I moved my vote from BM to Mae, and NONE of them have anything to do with figuring out my alignment.

I was reading in between the lines because that is how your post felt to me. I just can't shake my unease about CSL and your whole “if Mea flips town I look better” part really rubs me the wrong way. If Mea was this scummy to you before, why were you focused on BM? It's like you just decided to drop the BM suspicion and then agree with his inital conclusion on Mea.

It doesn't add up to me.

[Sotty7]

BATTLEMAGE. PUT YOUR VOTE ON MAEMUKI PLEASE. Neither Haylen nor Maemuki are very likely going to show up in the next 24 hours.

I would reccomend most people do the same.

I don't totally believe the claim, but I do for the most part.

And I will break my deal with BM if it will stop a deadline no-lynch, but otherwise I am going to stick with it.

Ugh...

If the deadline wasn't a little over 12 hours away I would be starting a Kitty wagon right about now. This post is awful. Proxies are fun and cute at the start of the game but we are in a deadline situation and you are sat here trying to doge responsibility of your OWN VOTE.

The bold is extreme fence sitting. Make up your mind.

Sure, I can answer any of the questions...Honestly, the whole point of the questions was to get people talking in a productive manner, although I didn't get a whole lot of new information from it.

So why don't you? quit stalling please.

Sorry, I can't - I'm already straddling the line on discussing games in progress.

Ah this explains it... but this is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Fine, fine, I'd be OK with a YB lynch, I guess...She's about as good as anybody at this rate. In re: Hito, though, the reason that I was reluctant to attribute CSL's actions to her....

No, just no.. how can you defend CSL play yet say you would still be ok with a lynch of CSL/YB... as good as anyone else? your reluctant to go on CSL's actions but are willing to lynch CSL replacement?

Not good enough... pandering, stalling and generally being ok with any lynch by the sounds of 'as good as anybody at this rate' of someone you are defending

vote Netopalis

Jason, I think that this post alone illustrates the bullying that I was speaking of. You say that my insistence upon following the rules about discussing games in progress so as not to get modkilled is "NOT GOOD ENOUGH!", you misinterpret my words after I just spent the last 4 posts explaining this and claim that I simply am following the crowd.


For another example of badgering and bullying, see how KittyMo feels that she has some moral obligation to give her vote to BM in exchange for some perceived slight.

Dude no.

Really you need to grow a thicker skin to play these games, no where in those posts is there bullying. KittyMo's lack of control on her own vote isn't from any form of bullying I have seen. It is however, damn scummy.

I can see a YellowBunny wagon isn't going to kick off here. I will be around most of the day and will switch my vote to Mea over Neto, simply because of the doc claim to get a lynch. Mea might want to think about claiming ASAP.

[Sotty7]

My bad Mae.

Well to me it looks like the lynch is either you or Neto and he has already claimed. You could wait until other players check in and see which way they are swinging or you can claim now. Time is very much against us here.

You are currently voting Hitogoroshi do you still believe he is scum? Who else do you think is scummy? Are you going to be moving your vote in the face of the deadline?

[Sotty7]

Neither Haylen nor Maemuki are very likely going to show up in the next 24 hours.

Oh thanks for the vote of confidence.

Go for it. It is up to you to convince me why I should be voting for Mae. Personally, I dont think I should be and will not be voting for her.

Happy with your vote on Kitty? Have anything to say about the content you have missed?

I do wonder, I do wonder why I'm the best lynch~

L-2, but I'll claim. I'm your Town Tracker, happy? You better be!

Also if I'm lynched, keep an eye on Kitty and yellowbunny.

This is what I was worried about. Now the two leading wagons are both claimed power roles. This is going to make it even harder to agree on one of them. Grr, going to have to look back and see if I can believe the claim or not.

You also don't seem overly concerned that you could be the lynch at this point.

Actually, I never played a power role, which may be the reason why I was lurking.

Guess what, didn't work.

How many games have you played?

[Sotty7]

I don't see why Mea town you scum combo is so improbable. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't hyposcum CSL defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? In this case he is clearly looking for town points if Mea ever flips townie. Plus with BM being BM maybe CSL really thought the Mea wagon would take off. You say all this is improbable, I don't agree.

Would hypo scum defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? Maybe. If he had simply refrained from voting Mae and casually mentioned "yeah, I think this case is bs", your argument would make sense to me. But CSL did a hell of a lot more than that...he defended Mae so vehemently that he put himself in real danger of being lynched, and didn't back down. And unless you are going to argue that he was trying to pull of some sort of gambit, that is not consistent with a scum win condition.

?

Are you being serious here? The scum win condition isn't one dimensional otherwise we wouldn't get scum bussing other scum ever. The point of playing scum is to look as townie as possible. To some scum that is defending other townies to look better on their flip. Are you really arguing that this isn't possible?

I was reading in between the lines because that is how your post felt to me. I just can't shake my unease about CSL and your whole “if Mea flips town I look better” part really rubs me the wrong way.

But that's not what you said. You said

she seems to be on the Mea wagon because it is not her wagon, unless you have some real suspicions of Mea you would like to voice Yellow? Because all I got out of your 535 was that we should lynch Mea to figure out what alignment you are. I would rather lynch you to see that.

Which is substantially different. You are backpedaling. Why?

I'm not backpedaling.

I don't buy your reasoning for jumping on the Mae wagon when you were so apparently suspicious of BM before. Doesn't make sense to me. I don't believe you.

@Sotty7
573: Deciding on lynching the claimed Tracker vs Doctor? Extremely scummy. The correct answer is: to lynch neither claims. Tomorrow will bring with it information and alignment flips.

FoS: Sotty7

for that statement, deadline or not.

My worry is/was that no one was posting, we only had two viable wagons and now they had both claimed power roles. I never said we HAD to lynch one of them, I was worried that it would come down to one or the other. I said I would go back and look to see if I believed the claim. Note I haven't unvoted Yellowbunny though out all this. She is my preferred lynch, even more so now we have both claims out.

[Sotty7]

Err no Jason. DTMaster was talking about Yellow keeping her vote on Mae, not the other way round.

[Sotty7]

bah at Self Hammer

No, I don't think Yellow is near lynch at this point. I think she has four votes including her own.

Why aren't you paying attention Jason?

[Sotty7]

BM, you have been calling Yellow scum since she joined the game but now she's town because she claimed townie and self voted? Crazy.

hitogoroshi, are you much happier going for a no lynch at this point?

[Sotty7]

Actually, your self-vote is conspicuously proximate to BM's talk about self-voting and its townieness. It raises an eyebrow, but I'd still rather lynch Jason.

That was the ironic point I think.

This game gives me a headache

[Sotty7]

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

The reason there was no hammer on Yellow was because of you. You came in a decided Yellow was town too late for us to HAVE another wagon. So, normally this would be a scum tell for you, but because you were the one responsible, it's just not?

Vote: BM

At this point I am thinking that one of Yellow and Battle Mage are scum. With how BM came in so close to the deadline and stopped us from getting a lynch just screams scum to me. Yellow's initial attacks on BM were pretty bad and I just can't see them as bussing. I am still suspious of Yellow, but it has been downgraded in the face of BM's actions.

I'd also consider a Kitty-lynch, if anyone was wondering.

What changed?

Haylen needs to post more, if she doesn't I could be happy lynching her too.

BM, Yellow and Haylen are my top three.

[Sotty7]

2. The plan to confirm Mae's claim is to wait till tomorrow. If Mae is the town tracker then there is no doctor to protect her. If she isn't then I suggest we look at Mae and hang her up. Given the fact that she said Kitty did nothing, if Kitty supports this then Mae's claim of tracker is confirmed. A mafia tracker is yet to be determined but should be kept in mind. Any problems?

This point is pointless. Of course Kitty is going to come out and confirm Mae's result. If she were scum she isn't gong to admit that and if she is a town power of some kind she isn't going to come out and claim that.

@Sotty
Why would scum push for a no lynch with the whole: deadline is nearing argument is avaliable to them. :<.

Why do we lynch everyday? (for the most part) For links, for information. Lynches and flips of said lynches are the towns most powerful weapon in hunting scum. Obviously scum will want to limit that.

You are setting up for a false dilemia where it's scummy to not hammer, and it would be scummy to hammer at the same time. Considering the last vote count was split up 3:3: 2:1:1:1:1 you can clearly see that the town was extremely divided on the lynch. You needed 7. Blaming BM for the no lynch when the above vote count seems moot. You have yet to attack me to premature claim and switch to self voting, or to Jason maintaining his vote on the unCCed doctor. You also didn't attack Nik for not going with a YB lynch but rather went for a Jason lynch. There are so many other examples of other attacks and such that it was clear the town was divided.

BM was a BIG reason why didn't get a lynch yesterday. The town was starting to roll towards some kind of settlement and BM came back mere hours before the deadline to derail that. Now, if both BM and Yellow are some how town, then what he did can be seen as a good thing. However, the facts are that on day one BM shouldn't have any idea what Yellow's alignment is. He was also calling Yellow scum right up until the deadline switch. Are you telling me you don't find these sequence of events scummy?

I'm not sure what you mean by attack you for premature claim, could you explain that? I will admit that I haven't been looking at Jason a lot and I should probably change that. The vote on the doc is suspect, but I have a gut town read on him. We used to play a lot on a different site.

---

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

The reason there was no hammer on Yellow was because of you. You came in a decided Yellow was town too late for us to HAVE another wagon. So, normally this would be a scum tell for you, but because you were the one responsible, it's just not?

*Facepalm*

Had to read that about 6 times before i realised what you THOUGHT i was saying. But, you have completely misinterpretted me. haha

What i meant was, the lack of hammer on YB would normally make me think he was scum, because a townie wagon is generally opportunistically hammered.

Wait. You think the lack of hammer on Yellow makes her more likely to be scum?

Crap, I totally read that the wrong way. I thought you were implying that the people who could have hammered and didn't were scummy and the whole “scum tell” applied to them. Face palm indeed.

Unvote

You are weighing the self vote thing in very high regard, why is that? Outside of the mountainous mafia you spoke about, have you seen other townies voting for themselves?

Logically, this is appalling. If you think the prevention of a lynch yesterday was anti-town, is that still true if i prevented a mislynch? Your attack is totally inconsistent.

Well I have no idea if you did or didn't prevent a mislynch and neither should you. My issue with you is that you seem so confident that it would have been. I don't know how you could be with the info we had that day or even now.

---

Haylen, as soon as someone calls you out on your lurking you post to say you aren't lurking or you are busy. To me this looks like you are

actively following the game and not posting

AKA

LURKING

. If you are as busy as you say you are, ask for a replacement. If in your next post you talk about how you aren't lurking while not actually playing the game then I will vote you. You missed a whole bunch of content yesterday, read it, catch up and give us something to go on.

@Kitty: Who are your suspects today?

Also really want Yellow to check in to see where she stands now.

[Sotty7]

@ DTmaster: I am annoyed that we didn't get a lynch yesterday because despite the various claims we have we are basically back at the start down one doc. I don't believe BM had sufficient information to derail the Yellow lynch which makes me suspicious of him and his reasons why he did it. Do you have meta on BM doing the same thing as a townie in another game? Can you link me?

I'll respond to the other stuff in the morning. Feeling pretty ill today.

[Sotty7]

Actually, i dont see how my affiliation comes in to play at all here. Care to enlighten me? As far as i see, if YB is town, i did something protown. Whether im scum or not is a completely different issue.

How convinced are you that Yellow is town?

I basically come from the school of thought that we should lynch every day barring some game mechanic that makes it prudent not to. I don't think townies should be running around derailing lynches on hunches or gut. You thought Yellow was scum then you suddenly believed she was town, I just don't see your motivation unless you became near on 100% that Yellow is town.

Ugh, Sotty, tell me- why the hell are we even bothering to play this game if we arent going to try and ascertain individual alignments?? I cant stress enough that changing opinions is GOOD! haha

Changing opinions is good if you have good enough reasons. Your change on Yellow just seemed to come out of nowhere and I am having a hard time seeing it.

I think Hito could be scum.

BM

He needs to get back in here and makes some posts that's for sure. I was getting a town feeling from him yesterday however.

Regarding lovers, I am not sure. I thought lovers had to be the same alignment. Is this not always the case?

Not always no.

I think Hito could be scum.

BM

See, now there you go again.. yet again you proclaim you think someone is scum yet provide NOTHING to back it up with.

Outside BM, who are your suspects Jason?

The game just finished so yes I now can meta link you. :3

Day Night Mafia. I was scum in this game and BM was the doctor, so you get my scum meta at the same time. Lol.

Thanks. I will look it over.

Why are you still voting yourself? Are you just waiting for BM to come in a declare you a townie too?

[Sotty7]

3. I would only consider myself an optimal lynch if the town cannot come to the conclusion for a better lynch. If there is no reason to suggest any other person is scum then.. lol duh lynch me.

What information do you think we would get from your lynch then? I don't understand why you think you are the optimal lynch at this point.

[Sotty7]

Nikanor what are/were your points on Jason? Have I missed them?

Sorry for my lackluster posting lately, I've been trying to shake this cold. Hopefully it will clear up soon and I can start making sense of the posting.

[Sotty7]

Yeah, I was going mostly on gut for Jason late yesterday. Although the reason for my gut reaction could easily be that Jason has terrible grammar (My gut activates on people with bad grammar, for some reason of which I am unaware).

Do you think he is scum?

@SevySotten: Who are you suspicious of right nao, and why?

Haylen = Active lurking.
Yellow mostly because of CSL+her initial attack on BM on entering the game

My BM suspicion has lessened lately. I need to re-read once I shake this flu but I would also say Nikanor is starting to climb up my list. He doesn't seem to be doing

anything

Not really liking hitogoroshi's vote on Jason either right now. Smacks of wagoning. Jason is mad that BM hasn't made a case and yet is calling him obvscum, some what understandable if a waste of energy. Not sure how that is scummy.

DTMaster, what do you think of Jason at this point?

[Sotty7]

Sotty+7: If you were to place a vote on someone, who would it be?
Rapid follow-up question: Why haven't you placed a vote?

Probably Haylen or maybe Nikanor. I was pretty sure I had BMscum but I misunderstood what he was saying because I was sick. Since then I have been trying to keep up with the most recent stuff so I don't fall too far behind. Today is my first day back in the land of the living so to speak and I plan to re-read the end of day one and day two. By then I should have a more organized idea on who I think is scum.

And there's nobody else you're suspicious of...?

Well I'm suspicious of DTM for claiming VT and self-voting an hour before deadline and directly after BM said that self-voting is townie. The fact that his vote is still on himself isn't earning him any points, either.

I actually very much agree with this. It equates to not actively scum hunting almost. I don't understand it and I don't agree with his reasoning that he is the best lynch today if we can't decide. I think a BM, Yellow or even Jason lynch would gives us more info than a DTMaster lynch. His actions are bizarre.

Nik + Sotty, I would respectfully disagree that my vote was an opportunistic, bandwagon vote. As I've said before, scum like to justify their votes for the specific purpose of forming a bandwagon. My vote was preceded by a single sentence that wasn't in any way a call to arms. While I certainly think Jason is scummy, I'm not advocating others to vote him, and with my voting putting him at L-4 I can hardly be getting him in the lynch range.

So because you are not calling the dogs of war that doesn't make your vote opportunistic? Yeah, I'm not feeling that.

@Sotty
I find jason's play highly emotional, so I can't get a good read on it. I have a scum meta on Jason we could make note of: Internal Struggle Mafia found in my Wiki.

But it's not a good base since I read more anger and less analysis. He was at least trying to blend in as scum-goon in ISM with semi-analysis/fishing. I get odd gut vibes from Jason in general but consider him anti-town in general, rather then scummy.

I'll do a reread when I can but from what I can remember as this moment that is what I have on Jason.

My meta on Jason is simple. Emtional Jason = TownJason. Collected, reasoned and blending in Jason = ScumJason. His reaction to BM just fits his town meta for me so I think he is town. This is meta however from a different site and could be out of date since we stopped playing there so I will take a look at his recent MS games, but it generally is that simple with him. Maybe he has upped his game is fooling me, but right now I'm not seeing the scumminess.

@ Sotty re post 784 – what has lessened your suspicion of BM?

When I voted him and read what he posted the wrong way he could have gone right for my throat for misrep. The fact he didn't and just explained what I got wrong gives me a town feel on him.

Hito: Post 798 is a lot better and now I can see why you really voted for Jason in the place.

what did YB claim?

BM

Townie remember? That and her self vote convinced you she was town.

Feel better KittyMo. Also I can't defend against gut.

Okay, I have some other games to catch up with so this afternoon I will be doing some re-reading and possible metaing of Jason. More content to come.

[Sotty7]

Okay, I re-read most of day one and now I am tired. Day two can wait till tomorrow me thinks.

KittyMo, you made a big case on Ckool based on his active lurking, what do you think of that player slot (AKA Vi) now? Also detailed thoughts on Haylen and Mae would be awesome.

Jason, why didn't you unvote Neto when he claimed doc?

Mae top three scum list please. Same question to Vi.

Vote: Haylen

Posting in other games, has to be be forced into posting content here. Really don't like her tone and she put an extremely weak FOS on BM instead of a vote. I could also vote for DTMaster, I am just hating the self vote, I don't see how it is helping anything. Nikanor posts things I agree with when he is offering content posts like 788 soften my stance on him a little.

[Sotty7]

Dear Haylen,

I understand how much it sucks when you are sick. I had the flu for like the last week it was awful trying to keep up with my five games yet I managed to drag myself out of bed and post

something

every day. For all I know you are sicker than I was but though out this whole game you have had one excuse or another as why you are not posting or not posting enough, it's getting out of hand. I am starting to believe it is nothing more than a distraction to actually sitting down and playing the game. I have seen very little scum hunting from you without your hand being held and it is because of this I am voting you. You are coasting in this game and I refuse to allow it any more. Especially since you are around and posting in other places. It makes me believe you have a reason to ignore this game.

Get well soon and if you are town please scum hunt some more.

Luv Sotty.

---

Mae, top three scum list please. Same question t

YO DAWG, I'M HAPPY FOR YOU, I'LL YET YOU FINISH, BUT VP BALTAR IS THE BEST SCUM OF ALL TIME -

OF ALL TIME!

Actually, I listed them in my question to Battle Mage - roughly in order. To that end I'm disappointed that Battle Mage has been ignoring me. Should we compare inferiority compleces?

This game needs moar VP

Ah okay. I had little idea who you suspected after Hito, but your top three isn't too bad. What do you think of Haylen?

Haylen, I see you are suspicious of Jason. Top three scum suspects?

[Sotty7]

I would call Jason scummy mainly because: he didn't unvote last day on Neto when I attacked him on this. I pointed out that all PR claims should be tested on day 2 onwards, he acknowledges this but doesn't move his vote. Maintaining on the doc wagon puts him as scummy to me.

Okay, I can agree with this actually. I can sympathize with the re-read fail. I still haven't found the time to re-meta Jason as of yet.

Jason: Do you think Hito is scum with BM?

[Sotty7]

PS. I dont have penis envy.
I also dont want anal.

This warranted a need for me to publicly announce.

....

Why the Nikanor vote?

[Sotty7]

My meta on Jason isn't just me pissing in the wind. A little over a year ago on another site we both post on I introduced the forum to mafia. Since then we have played several games and while the players are getting better the overall skill level is low. EmtionalJason = TownJason isn't just a fad, it is a trend I have witnessed. Here:

Town

MWA: Star wars
This was an early game on the site and I (Kacy Knight) pretty much lost it on Jason (Jason Talbot) because he tried to random/joke vote me on day two. It resulted in a huge fight between us that in the end caused the game to get restarted. We were both townies.

MWA: Marvel/DC 2
In this game I was the jester and Talbot was a survivor. I start a some what early wagon on Jason and he gets very OMGUSy on me. Others start to wagon and he completely freaks out pretty much accusing everyone at some point. He only calms down after I derail the wagon on him.

MWA: Alien v Predator
Here I started an early day wagon on Jason with the hope to see if he flipped out and give away his town tells to me. As expected he started to get overly emotional and at the top of page 4 I unvoted. However we ended up going at off board and both were replaced because of this. We were both townies.

Scum

MWA: Werewolf
An example albeit a very short one, of JasonScum blending in. Cool, calm, in control.

MWA: Mafia special
Jason is scum, I nail him hard and he doesn't overreact, even though there is much ownage.

MWA: Cops v mafia 2
Jason is scum again and I catch him out. We go back and forth but no where does he get overly emotional.

MWA: Invasion
More scum Jason and we go at it, things getting heated. However he never loses it as far as I am concerned.

MWA games.

I am not quite as versed in Jason's MS games for obvious reasons. But I do know about two of them that seem to fit this pattern.

Newbie 804
TownJason gets into a big fight with townShikahake7.

Internal Struggle mafia
Even though the heat is on for most of this game, scumJason ever completely loses his cool.

So yes I have a truck load of meta on Jason that suggests to me he is a townie with how he has reacted to BM and to hito. While his over reactiveness has dulled over time it is still there. The doc vote does still bother me, but right now I think the scum are trying to push Jason to the noose simply because of my experience in playing with Jason.

This post took me way too long to make. I will be back later to look at the rest of the posts. I need some lunch.

Jason, I can't tell you how many times I had to delete Talbot in this post...

[Sotty7]

(Though if that's true, Jason, I'd recommend trying to change that fact about yourself. Attacking your attacker instead of pro-actively hunting is anti-town behavior, regardless of your alignment.)

I agree.

I realize that my meta evidence on Jason isn't something that can clear him 100% and there is a (slight) chance that he is messing with my head. I just really think he is town.

...ok, Sotty. If you say so...I'm inclined to believe Jason is town

Just on my say so?

Why do you ignore them?

Because I don't like looking back and finding the posts to which they are referring when DTM and yellowbunny post. Take DTM's 856, for example.

@Kitty
Eww 817: Get better.

Issue though: Nikanor likes playing with Mastin, therefore he is a text wall masochist. I smell favoritism from Kitty for a Kitty/Nik scum team or Kitty buddying. (is serious here)

I had to look back and find post 817 to see what DTM was talking about. When he does that ten times in one post, I start to feel a tinge of apathy creeping up my spine. Sure, it's easier for DTM to post like that, but it makes it a hell of a lot more difficult on other people.

Glad I wasn't the only one that felt like this. It is a really annoying post style.

[Sotty7]

I don't follow your reasoning here. Firstly, unless I'm misremembering/can't find where he wrote it, I don't think DT said he was the BEST lynch...he said he was a good lynch. And if DT's behavior is "suspicious" and "bizzare", how is his lynch not better than, say, a Jason lynch (whom you say you have meta to support him being town)?

DT said something like his lynch would be the most informative didn't he? That's what I am talking about. As for putting Jason in there now I am obviously taking him out now. That was back when nearly all the game was suspicious of him and his flip would have provided info. I also had an issue with his vote on the claimed doc.

However yesterday I spent a long time (READ: Several hours) re-reading those games I posted in my JasonMeta post and it pretty much convinced me he is town. There is no way I am supporting his lynch today.

Speaking of that meta...what you posted was really informative. I have been getting gut town-feelings from Jason today, and this makes me feel more confident in that. Also, upon rereading, I am inclined to agree with Jason's assertion that Hito's Jason vote was opportunistic.

It was very opportunistic and is why he is my number two right now. He does later explain, but there is more after the fact while he is getting heat. While the reasoning is somewhat good, why not

say

that initially?

Also the whole “my vote isn't opportunistic because it wasn't pushing a bandwagon” still doesn't fly with me.

I'd like to clarify something about my vote. It was 'opportunistic' in that I seized the opportunity of Jason responding to BM's pressure to vote, and that this would provide a clear razor of whether or not he was attacking his attacker or if it was a 'coincidence' that he suspected BM, as it were. But you seem to be using the word to indicate that 'opportunistic' is someone synonymous with 'scummy' and frankly I don't see how. I've said before that I took great pains to ensure that was not a bandwagon-encouraging vote. So how exactly was it scummy? I did use the

opportunity

, so it is opportunistic in that sense, but that definition is a positive modifier; e.g, that I did my vote at the correct opportunity to elicit a meaningful response.

Dude no. lets take another look at your vote shall we?

Sorry for not posting. Because I had posted one page back I thought I was safe, I hadn't realized that that was all the way back on Wednesday. xD

So BM I am asking... infact no I am now DEMANDING you make a case against me and show how I am indeed 'confirmed scum and will be lynched today'

I demand your case NOW.. no more pussy footing, no more side stepping as you have done, I have asked many times, as have others. I DEMAND your case on me if I am confirmed scum.

Jason, his "case" is that you're more concerned with self-preservation than scumhunting and even when he's not starting a bandwagon you're simply yelling at the person attacking you rather than doing anything else. And that's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

vote: JasonT1981

Why is it scummy to ask for a case to made on you? Jason was annoyed because BM provided no case! His reaction is some what understandable in that respect, wouldn't you be pissed if someone kept going on that you were scum but yet wouldn't say why?

You tried to make this natural reaction seem scummy, it's not. The behavior

is

annoying and will raise the players heckles towards Jason. No one likes this kind of behavior... But it's not scummy! This is why your vote is opportunistic. You jumped all over him.

No, Explain please... I insist. I am not going to let you keep getting away with voting people without giving reasons. This is another example of why I am sure you are scum. Yet more vote hoping without explanation.

Eh. It's obviously because I am defending you, his once top suspect.

[Sotty7]

Been totally swamped since my last post. I am going to try and post in here later tonight, if not then first thing in the morning. Cross my heart hope to die.

[Sotty7]

And I have a serious, serious problem with the phrasing "jumped all over him." Let's recap - I saw Jason attacking BM for, in essence, attacking him. I voted Jason to see whether or not he would continue to scum-hunt BM, ignoring my vote, or if I would become just as scummy in his eyes because I dared vote him. I was completely right - I suddenly became scum target #1 for doing such. And Sotty, how do you describe this? Opportunistically jumping all over him. The opportunity was a time when he was already responding to pressure and I could add more. He, beyond a shadow of a doubt, reacted disproportionately. To say I jumped all over him, and that this is a bad behavior, is to say that it is an anti-town behavior to apply pressure to someone who is already showing a stressful reaction to player pressure. It's saying that it's poor form to create a situation where Jason has to deal with pressure because he might deal with it wrong. I think it goes without saying that doing such - to 'jump all over someone' - is the entire purpose of active scumhunting (as opposed to analytical scumhunting.)

It's all about timing and the feel of the vote. Looking back at the lead up to your vote BM was all over Jason and he was getting increasingly annoyed. Rather than post and prod him, asking for reasoning you

jumped

on him with a vote

compounding

the situation. Hence opportunistic. It's like you didn't want an explanation, just more reaction from Jason who would just keep digging in his hole.

I could be blinded by the meta that I have on Jason, but I know his play can be and often is easily manipulated by scum. However, the fact I am not the only player feeling your vote as opportunistic makes me think I have hit the nail on the head.

And i still cant bloody differentiate between Kitty and Mae, in terms of claims? -.-

Neither of them are posting much so I can understand the confusion. They are starting to blend into one player almost.

I'll work on getting out a suspicion list soon. I just find specific questions to have a priority.

Okay, I was going to ask you to do this, but I can wait a little bit. Keep in mind however that the deadline is in five days I think.

(Glad to hear it's not horrible news and that you will get better)

Mod: Can you post the deadline in all your vote counts please? I notice that you have stopped doing that

BM. You know exactly where I am right now, so dont go saying Im lurking. Im not replacing out, I never replace out. I'm gonna post content tonight. But right now Im busy. Yes busy, just like every bugger else in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHIU8RGphlY

[Sotty7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHIU8RGphlY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZkllM8znx4&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXGhvoekY44

Seriously. Why aren't more people voting for Haylen?

Fair enough. FWIW, I would be fine with lynches on the following: DT, Hito, and (if the alternative is a no-lynch) Haylen. Over the past few pages Hito's level of scummyness has jumped in my book so now he is on par with DT. As far as Haylen goes, I'd prefer to give her a bit more time to get better...but if its between lynching her and no lynch, I'd prefer to lynch her.

Ugh. What about all Haylen's excuses though out this game that don't involve her being sick? If we aren't going to lynch her today I could switch over to Hito. DTMaster is also turned very lurky today... He would be a distant 3rd choice.

[Sotty7]

Haylen misses the point in post 925. The time it took for her to make that post should have been spent on

this

game not running around in other games.

The deadline is fast approaching, we need to start coming together on a agreed upon lynch or we will suffer the clusterfuck that was the end of yesterday all over again.

[Sotty7]

Also, someone asked me a question about "aggregate town-cred" or something like that, which i didnt understand. Can whoever it was, please clarify, and i will try to answer.

That was me. Basically my question was, which people do you think are most liked by the town as a whole, and which people are least liked? A lot of today's dynamics seem to be a bit too focused on "who can we get lynched" instead of "who should be lynched".

Wow. No this is not the case at all. You are not voting right now, who do you think should be lynched?

I'm starting to think that Hito's extreme care/reluctance to place a vote this game is pointing towards him being the secret voter that we saw on day one. Maybe he has to follow some kind of protocol to be able to spring his extra vote.

Also anyone who isn't voting right now really needs to change that ASAP. AKA Mae

[Sotty7]

also

Claim: Doctor

lmao

Go figure.

BM

I may be wrong having just woken up from a nap, but I am pretty sure BM's claim was a joke. Not a particularly funny joke, but a joke none the less.

Not sure if I like the sudden swing to DTmaster but that could just be because he was my distant 3rd choice. Haylen's claim of vig doesn't actually do anything for me, but I suppose we can see if there is another kill tonight.

[Sotty7]

Hey Triple D!

You mean me, right?

You being the only claimed tracker, yes. I am pretty sure he means you. What made you pick Vi outside expecting to see BM and Haylen dead?

Vote: Haylen

I am not about to drink the wine around her claim, we let her get away yesterday and now she is still alive today. Haylen needs to die.

[Sotty7]

No Mae. I understand why you picked Vi over Haylen and BM. But what made you chose Vi over any of the rest of us?

[Sotty7]

BM, why are you so against a Haylen lynch? I don't get it. Every time she is brought up you find some BS way to talk down her lynch though some WIFOM it is getting ridiculous. I will concede that Mae being alive is a puzzler and makes her look scummy, but can you explain clearly why Mae is a higher lynch priority than Haylen? Right now I don't see it. We let Haylen get away with her horrible lurking and weak claim yesterday I'm not about to sit back and let the same happen today. If anything the reasons to lynch Haylen and Mae are almost the same but Haylen's lack of participation is a lot worse than Mae's. How can you be for one lynch and against the other?

Hito, post 1033 is great and all, but what if Mae is a scum tracker?

Triple D, thoughts on the players?

[Sotty7]

Lol, can i stop you there? I'm not "so against a Haylen lynch". But i think a Mae lynch is better. And if Mae flips scum, Haylen is confirmed town. No such result works the other way, as far as i'm aware?

Well every time she has become a valid lynchable wagon you seem to have an excuse not to lynch her. How does scumMae = Haylentown? Have I missed something?

If Maemuki flips town, and we only have 1 kill tonight, i promise i will join you in lynching Haylen tomorrow. It's still possible Vi is NK immune, in which case Haylen can prove herself tonight by killing someone else.

Eh.... I'll think about it if you can answer my above question.

Sotty? Thats the only person it can now be....I will have to look over some other vote counts though...

Err why? I am not the double voter.

Because Maemuki-scum slipped that Haylen actually is the Vig.

When?

[Sotty7]

Looks like the ??? has moved again and seems to have nothing to do with the BM vote. It could just simply be someone with an extra vote and no restrictions.

Mae, I thought you were saying that you assumed Haylen was telling the truth, what has changed that line of thinking? I also don't see where Haylen “admitted” to not being the vig.

[Sotty7]

I think it is pretty clear that the scum control the double vote but I agree with Jason in that I don't think we are doing much but chasing our tails around which is just what the scum want. I am really not seeing your BM controls the vote theory Hito. The almost randomness of the vote combined with the fact it was barely used in day two until the end of the day, makes me think that it is a vote that can be cast whenever it is wanted. I think it is a distraction at this point.

I was almost willing to switch over to the Mae wagon until Haylen jumped all over it. Now it just makes me leery.

[Sotty7]

BM, are you really claiming that this vote is mod controlled? What of the fact the vote was barely used on day two? While I might not fully agree with Hito's conclusions I do agree with this.

I'm not saying this is a perfect, ringing indictment. What I'm saying is that your response to this case, which points a finger at you, is to say we should

ignore this element of the game entirely.

Why? If you don't believe one of the points listed above, which one?

I can't imagine why you would not want to look at the vote unless you were afraid of what we found.

Hito, if BM is scum who are his partners?

[Sotty7]

Mae, results?

[Sotty7]

Vig no killing in a lylo situation works for me.

Vote: Maemuki

[Sotty7]

If it ever looked like I wanted to strangle Haylen during this game, don't be misled - I really did. But she really came through D3 with her doublevote; I'm impressed.

Pretty much this. I loved how relaxing the game became once everyone started to freak out about the double vote. My hat is off to Haylen.

The advice I've gotten for that is:
1. to follow my gut while making up cases for why someone is scummy. >_>
2. Try to figure out why your gut feels that way. (I did try that one, but it didn't work very well. I'll have to try that out when I get better.

I try and follow my gut when I can because it can often be right. You just really need to look hard at what posts feel off to you and try and figure out

why

. Yeah I know, easier said then done right? But at least you are half way there.

By the way, Vi, you always have a really great avatar. And I like Sotty's right now as well.

Vi made me mine after I died in her mini

Hey, also, Zach and Sotty, where in MN are you? I hail from Coon Rapids myself.

Wow... We're just down the road in Brooklyn Park. Small world eh?

As for my thoughts on the game, I have to admit I was panicking a little when we didn't get a lynch on day one and the two power role claims. With Vi being a GF I kinda assumed that there would be a cop or something so to see a tracker and doc claimed made my head hurt. This is pretty much why we chose to kill the doc, not because he didn't look scummy, but because of the potential he could protect down the road.

Early on in the game I felt very exposed, Haylen was lurking and Ckool was well, posting what he was posting and I was starting to worry. But as the game wore on and lynches started to happen, I didn't really get any suspicions on me apart from KittyMo and she was all about the gut. I managed to get pretty comfortable. Vi replacing in helped this a lot. Love playing with Vi.

I tried to give you guys Haylen. Like

really

tried. Oh well *Whistles*

Jason, I defended you as an obvious buddying move winning your trust. Plus if I ever got lynched it was a great way to make you look bad too

In all I had more fun with game as we got deeper in. Thanks for modding Zach.

[Sotty7]

Oh I also have no issue with the Scum QT being posted.

[Sotty7]

Love playing with Vi.

...when you know my alignment

Even when I don't I still love playing with you. That whole, lynching you when you were town thing was a minor blip on the radar...

My wife is still getting used to the ice cold winters we have.

Can you ever get used to -30 wind chills?

Minnesota is pretty cool. London is probably the best place I have lived though, but I do like the remoteness of parts of Minnesota. Living in big cities isn't always fun.

All in all, I really had fun in this game despite the loss. Sotty is always an enigma to me as I can never get a read on her as she seems to play the same scum or town... only read I have on Sotty is a Jester Sotty

Jester sotty = Awesome sotty