Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835

[Toro]

/in before prod

Anyone want to hear my opinions on anything? Shoot away.

[Toro]

To ThAdmiral : I'd say it's just random squabbling as of right now.

But something that struck me peculiar, is that Cain's first (and what I read, only) post so far in this game is jumping on the Mastin bandwagon. Did he not realize we were still in RVS?

Vote: Cain

(Not random)

[Toro]

Toro: That's what the RVS is about. Have you never played a game on this site before?

The way I read it he was just jumping on to get more votes on him, pushing him closer to lynch. Didn't seem real random to me, more scummy.

[Toro]

I'd also appreciate it if anyone who is voting for Mastin on policy would unvote me, as I don't wall

Most. Persuasive. Post. Ever.

[Toro]

Toro - post 86: This whole post is scummy.

Where's the beef?

*Glances at avatar*

[Toro]

Toro - post 86: This whole post is scummy.

Where's the beef?

*Glances at avatar*

In other words, hasdgfas, how is that scummy?

[Toro]

In other words, hasdgfas, how is that scummy?

Are you kidding? I'll let Cow answer this one, but I feel it should be pretty obvious.

I put a vote on a guy who hopped on a bandwagon on the first page, and all of a sudden I'm scum.

/facepalm.

[Toro]

I put a vote on a guy who hopped on a bandwagon on the first page, and all of a sudden I'm scum.

Nobody said you were scum. Guilty conscience?
While I do like my DTM vote, I believe this one will serve me better:

Unvote. Vote: Toro.

IGMEOY: DTM

Hasdgfas said that I looked scummy after I voted Cain, I responded by asking how that made me look scummy at all, so you're right, I never said I was scum, in a sense.

[Toro]

I have nothing on anyone, not a shred.

Mmhmm, yeah my vote's not going anywhere.

[Toro]

It's null either way, and I think anyone perpetuating the issue to be scummy (has,nik)

Are you kidding me? You really believe anyone with a differing opinion to be scummy?
DTM himself has acknowledged that his post can be interpreted as defending.
I don't like your vote, either. You call two people scummy, then vote for a completely different person. Why is that?

No I just think that continuing that argument is counterproductive and people continuing it 5 pages later might be trying to distract the town from finding scum.

Did you see Cain's gem of a post? Easily the most anti-town post in this game so far.

Problem with that is, it doesn't really make them look anti-town at all. And we've got a long deadline, I'm sure we're going to find scum without any distractions.

And oh that honor hasn't gone to me? Phew!

[Toro]

Problem with that is, it doesn't really make them look anti-town at all. And we've got a long deadline, I'm sure we're going to find scum without any distractions.

And oh that honor hasn't gone to me? Phew!

Well its better to voice one's opinions than not. It's extremely anti-town to just say "I don't know" and offer no reads.

Also the first line of your post seems weird to me. Almost over-confidence that would only be seen from an non-town player.


Anyway, I have never played in a game where there is a anti-town group that does not have NKs. Anyone have experience with this setup?

Don't know how that makes me seem overconfident at all, just pointing it out.

Umm...yeah, just think they're masons.

Except they're bad.

[Toro]

Post 88 –

Toro

, can you elaborate how you get this impression?

I had a feeling that Cain was just not really throwing a random vote around since it was just RVS, seeing how he quickly and without really saying anything else just latched right onto the Mastin bandwagon. I don't know Cain's meta really, so I think from looking at that we may have caught inexperienced scum.

[Toro]

Post 88 –

Toro

, can you elaborate how you get this impression?

I had a feeling that Cain was just not really throwing a random vote around since it was just RVS, seeing how he quickly and without really saying anything else just latched right onto the Mastin bandwagon. I don't know Cain's meta really, so I think from looking at that we may have caught inexperienced scum.

I think just inexperienced, period. He fake-claimed scum day one in the other game I am in, and just got lynched (vanilla townie).


ThAdmiral was quite quiet in the one game I have played with him. NK'd day one, town doctor. Stated that he often was quiet when asked about "lurking".

Zazie, I commented when I had something to say. About all I have now is a feeling that out of hohum, nikanor, and DTM one is scum. Cain could either be scummy or just plain weird, and Toro seems to be tunnelling on
Cain, without solid reasons (I understand there are reasons, I am just saying I don't consider them enough to bring out the pitchforks)

Wait, he actually

claimed

scum? Wow.

And I wouldn't really say that I'm tunneling on Cain really, I'm just throwing this out there and seeing what you guys say about it. I think he might just be eager to lynch, actually too eager to lynch.

[Toro]

[quote="DTMaster]
@Toro
You disapproved on Cain's bandwagon vote when Mastin was at L-3 in the RVS? It's stretching that argument.

I think he was trying to get more reactions then forcing a lynch during this stage (besides it would be much more useful for the RVS wagon to go to lynch since we would know scum was part of that wagon).[/quote]

It was just peculiar to me how he just quickly jumped on.

/nod

[Toro]

and with that, in conclusion:

unvote; vote: ZazieR

I know others have tried to make me look bad, but you tried the hardest, and I don't like it, especially as I haven't really done anything anti-town. You put words in my mouth, misrepped me, and have not really done any effective scumhunting with that spam of yours.

OMGUS much?

[Toro]

and with that, in conclusion:

unvote; vote: ZazieR

I know others have tried to make me look bad, but you tried the hardest, and I don't like it, especially as I haven't really done anything anti-town. You put words in my mouth, misrepped me, and have not really done any effective scumhunting with that spam of yours.

You know what, this is giving me a real bad feeling from you now.

So,

Unvote

Vote: saberwolf

[Toro]

ZazieR has tried to make me look scummy the best he can, and has put words in my mouth and misrepped me, which is what earned my vote.

the,whatever, part hascow, refered to the speculation of toro voting for me to look like he wasn't tunneling.

as for connections, Zazier tries to undo everything I've done. I've tried to stop the fight at the beginning so that tunneling wouldnt occur, and now ZazieR is undoing that by only ripping at the original talkers. Toro was mildly involved in the spam and was not as aggressively attacked. I thought it might have been a slight attempt at bussing. I also thought it could be a future setup to get cain off the hook for his BW vote. The rest that happened afterwards has convinced me enough that there is at least one connection between the three.

I've already said before that I was not tunneling, I just voted Cain on the grounds of him just quickly building up the RVS-Mastin bandwagon.

Um, aren't we the ones who are supposed to be deciding that? You're supposed to explain why it's not as anti-town as we think, not just saying that you haven't done anything anti-town.

Good point.

is this to make it look like you're not tunneling?

Whatever, I just don't like the way ZazieR's throwing dirt around, and is def trying to twist things into an unpleasant spotlight.

also, please elaborate on why my post gave you a bad feeling, cause I already suspected you having connections to ZazieR before, but this def helps reinforce it.

When you say "others have tried to make me look bad, but you tried the hardest, and I don't like it," makes it definitely sound both like OMGUS and scum trying to aim the spotlight over to someone else. And rereading through that swamp of spam I read that ZazieR never put any words in your mouth at all. And that is some effective scumhunting, we found you.

[Toro]

Oh whoops. Yes Hasdgfas. >>;; It's easier to type hohum then hasdgfas (I will never type the cow).

MY BAD.

You could always call him Robotic Eye-Laser Shooting Cattle Unit 01.

And as for this...

Hmm I'm seeing a deja vu here am I not?

@Scott/Hohum/Toro
Do you three see Sabre's 187, 188, and 189 as OMGUS reasons and not actual, legit reasons that would make Zazier scummy. Can you debunk his argument to show how this is done?

I personally agree that with the statement that Zazier's posts can be seen as mudslinging among the four active players (fanning the flames again).

Well it certainly looks that way doesn't it? From what I read I don't really see Zaz twisting words at all.

[Toro]

Here's a question, how do you feel being held off the list along with Cain?

Anyone finding it fishy how Zaz, Cain, and lumi are the only ones

not

on that list?

[Toro]

*facepalm* forgot about nikanor.

[Toro]

Anyone finding it fishy how Zaz, Cain, and lumi are the only ones

not

on that list?

I wasn't on the list either, btw.

And it's a really weird list. I honestly don't understand the point of it.

Meh, your a cow, you're forgettable.

I guess he's just posting his list of suspicion after catching up? But the way he posted it does sound weird.

[Toro]

toro, you're now parroting what I've already said with last couple of posts -_-

Well squawkity squawk squawk then.

[Toro]

Here's a question, how do you feel being held off the list along with Cain?

Anyone finding it fishy how Zaz, Cain, and lumi are the only ones

not

on that list?

I assumed I wasn't on the list because I just replaced in yesterday (real time) and didn't do much yet.

*Facepalm*

That's right.

[Toro]

@Scott: how do you feel about being on Zazie's list?

No reaction to it, half of the game is on the list and it just seems to be the people who posted some content before zaz replaced.

Other then nik, which I find peculiar.

[Toro]

ZazieR: Def suspicious of why nik didn't make your list.

I would of though that if anything he'd be up there at the top, given the basis of why your list was made. [but then again that's just me]

So why isn't he on it? Actually after you answer that, please tell me why everyone else who isn't on your list is not on the list.

Bolded is the part I find peculiar.

[Toro]

Mind you, by scummiest, I mean rubbed me the wrong way more than the others.

So for people to be scummy, they have to rub you the wrong way? This is what prompted me to vote for you when you said this about ZazieR.

[Toro]

For ZazieR's analysis of post 18, I can see where it can be interpreted of you trying to keep the attention on Mastin.

[Toro]

Hope that helps. Although, no doubt, you'll do your best to rip this to shreds too,

or else claim ignorance

.

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!

And I haven't been 'ripping' your statement to shreds saber, why so defensive?

[Toro]

[quote="saberwolf"the "ripping" part was ZazieR directed, the ignorance part was directed at you.[/quote

Okay, gotcha.

I have to be defensive. If I wasn't defensive, ZazieR would walk all over me, and I will not let that happen. I'm trying my best to answer every question, but I seem to get more and more discredited every time I do.

I was talking as if your ripping to shreds comment was directed towards me. Otherwise, this be true.

[Toro]

@SaberWolf: I never said that I 'like' ZazieR, just because I agreed with him on something doesn't group us together.

[Toro]

Post 146 –

Toro

, who do you mean with ‘them’? Also, is the last paragraph a joke or not?

Last paragraph is a joke, seeing as how in the other games people have been all over my ass.

And by 'them' I was referring to whoever Scott was referring to, (Has, Nik, DTM, hohum).

Post 181 – Toro, Cain explained why he joined the bandwagon in Post 176. Why no response to it when you are attacking him over it?

I feel that we can still put the pressure on Cain over this issue if Saberwolf gets some of the pressure off of him, or on D2. But as of right now my vote is still with Saber and I'm happy to leave it there.

[Toro]

I <3 Toro

*gives toro a hug and a cookie*

I'm actually at a loss on where to go from here

I'm a parrot, I want crackers remember?

*SQUAWK*

[Toro]

Just because I'm looking for a good laugh before heading off to work for 6hrs, could someone please go over the details of why and how Cain fake claimed scum?

[Toro]

prod recieved! sorry, had my computer in the shop over the past three days getting fixed! all good now!

wow, three votes, some people really hate me. I have no role to claim to keep me safe, all i can do is tell you im town. The reason i sit back and watch is because this is only my third gama and im just watching, still having very little input, and yeah i know it looks scummy, but if i posted just lots of random posts then chances are i would be suspected of told im stupid. I cant decribe how hew i am to this game, and trying to pick scum tell things up to try and help.

Hope this make things clearer, if not just ask!

With you just posting this and now just bowing out, you

are

stupid.

Sorry to make it all blunt like that. But yeah, and I'll get on this to add some more pressure...

Unvote

Vote: Cain

[Toro]

Found in my Post 301

1. Both: What are your current town reads?
2. Cain: Are you still satisfied with your vote on Lumi/Mastin? It's past the RVS now, so if you still like the vote why are you keeping it? What's your case on Lumi?
3. Both: What do you have to say in defense to your lurkerish actions.

Since you unvoted I want to edit my question 2 to: Why did you unvote?

Also it's poor in your image to forget that you had this vote active since it suggests that you haven't been keeping up with the game.

The other thing is you are self imposing a scummy/lurker image (if you are townie) to inflict back at scum hopping on "an easy bandwagon". The issue here is the reasoning looks a lot like OMGUS, which is a weak argument to fight back, rather then opportunism. Also your recent statement reads as AtE, where you full claimed as townie in response to the new pressure.

More scumhunting less AtE nonsense please. (if you are townie)

what is OMGUS and AtE?

Check the wiki.

[Toro]

Christ man, read the thread and you will find my reasons.

[Toro]

4. Kill-Kill: You are keeping your vote on Cain but you mentioned that his meta involved some odd mistakes (ie town claiming scum, etc). Why did you keep your vote if you knew Cain's town meta was poor and you outlined he was looked like he was acting noobish in your ISO 3?

First of all, being noobish as a townie in no way helps the town. However, the main reason is his willingness to jump on the Mastin bandwagon. If he had been trying to use the bandwagon to scum hunt, he would have followed up with questions, suspicions, something. I think his inexperience led him to believe that he could lynch someone who wasn't in his faction early, when an experienced player would know that the wagon would never get a lynch without evidence.

The timing and that you only answered one of the three questions are both noted.

Hmm...while I was reading back through the thread while reading your current analysis I discovered something strange about Kill-Kill's vote on Cain.

Post 88 –

Toro

, can you elaborate how you get this impression?

I had a feeling that Cain was just not really throwing a random vote around since it was just RVS, seeing how he quickly and without really saying anything else just latched right onto the Mastin bandwagon. I don't know Cain's meta really, so I think from looking at that we may have caught inexperienced scum.

I think just inexperienced, period. He fake-claimed scum day one in the other game I am in, and just got lynched (vanilla townie).


ThAdmiral was quite quiet in the one game I have played with him. NK'd day one, town doctor. Stated that he often was quiet when asked about "lurking".

Zazie, I commented when I had something to say. About all I have now is a feeling that out of hohum, nikanor, and DTM one is scum. Cain could either be scummy or just plain weird, and Toro seems to be tunnelling on
Cain, without solid reasons (I understand there are reasons, I am just saying I don't consider them enough to bring out the pitchforks)

After reading this I wondered why his stance on Cain has drastically changed to wanting to lynch him after discarding my reasons that I stated originally as reasons that

weren't enough to warrant a Cain-lynch.

I dunno, I could be reading too much into this, or I could be onto something. Zaz, your thoughts?

[Toro]

Secondly, I was the one who asked Cain about his vote. I replaced into this game, and looking at the time stamps, you could have asked him before me. You choose not to do so. Why?

I already answered this, but, with his activity, I didn't see the point. I also already explained why I only answered one question: namely, I misread and didn't think the other two were addressed to me, and I answered them in my next post.

Toro, his behavior since then has changed my mind. He is my number one scum candidate, so my vote is on him.

Problem with this, your vote is not even on me Kill-Kill. And what caused you to change your mind about me?

[Toro]

Secondly, I was the one who asked Cain about his vote. I replaced into this game, and looking at the time stamps, you could have asked him before me. You choose not to do so. Why?

I already answered this, but, with his activity, I didn't see the point. I also already explained why I only answered one question: namely, I misread and didn't think the other two were addressed to me, and I answered them in my next post.

Toro, his behavior since then has changed my mind.

He is my number one scum candidate, so my vote is on him.

Problem with this, your vote is not even on me Kill-Kill. And what caused you to change your mind about me?

Well, I can't vote for two people.... In any case, nowhere did I say you were scummy. I said I didn't like how you appeared to be tunneling. Regardless, weak chainsaw defense of Cain noted, despite the fact you are voting for him.

Okay then,

FoS: Kill-Kill

, nice try trying to say that I'm trying to defend Cain, would you mind pointing out where?

And with the bolded part that I bolded I facepalmed myself over and over, as this was directed at someone else, I thought you were calling me scummy. So, forget about that part.

[Toro]

I like this new guy, he gets Megadeth songs stuck in my head.

[Toro]

Unvote

Good to see that you're not useless like your predecessor. Jus' kidding Cain! (Hope you're not reading this.)

[Toro]

My vote is staying on Cain/peacesells. His lurking, wanting to be replaced at L-2, and his analysis ONLY of the people who voted Cain still sound anti-town to me. Also the little comment about how SW is acting scummiest seems like he's attempting to buddy up to town.

You do realize that Cain and peacesells are two different people right?

With one read through my general feeling is Saber is scummiest acting (well actually, I would have voted Cain had I not been him as he appeared as a newb scum to me.)

I'm still not sure about SW. The wagon built up so quickly then crumbled, not really sure what to think of that. He certainly has not been acting very town, but I think peacesells is still a better lynch for today.

SW:are you still content with your vote on Nik? What do you think of Cain's replacement?

Getting town reads from DT

I wasn't getting good vibes from hohum, but alas he has vanished. Need to hear more to make an opinion.

Toro has a weird style, but I would lean town for the time being. Not enough to go on here though.

Toro:Why did you unvote?

Still retain my earlier suspicions of lumi.

I am pretty neutral on nikanor, cow, kill, Zaz at the moment.[/quote]

I unvoted as I see that peacesells has at least taken a liberal position in this game and asking plenty of questions. Of course this doesn't mean that I completely believe that he's town, but he's looking town to me now.

[Toro]

@Toro
Quote tag fail :p

Quiet you.

And Admiral do you currently have list of who you find most suspicious so far? I'm just curious to see.

[Toro]

But I never actually promised a big post. You just took it as a given that I was going to make a large post.

So you were going to come back and just say.

'Saber's guilty. Vote, DO EET NAO!'

?

[Toro]

Kill Kill: I'm a bit confused about Kill Kill. He voted for Cain but subsequently put forth reasons how Cain would be town...

not sure what to make of this.

Fence riding with a hidden vote? Trying to make it seem like he was defending someone while still voting for them? Like I said, confused.

Lumi: Seems a bit paranoid that people continue to "singel" him/her out.

Not sure what to make of this

but seems really worried about players directing attention his/her way without any actual votes.

DT: If there is a player type in this game I can relate to the most it's DT. His early discuss about Mastin is probably one I would have agreed with. Why jump on someone who hasn't even showed up yet? FWIW I've played with Mastin and his Wall of text was tiresome...along with his insistance that we must META-game him. I have a hard enough time reading everything in one game let alone reading someone elses 5 other games. Sheesh! Anyway, back on topic.

I don't see anything particularly good or bad about DT so far.

Bolded is the part that makes it fencesitting.
Your Toro analysis is only slightly fencesitting because you seem to say you agree with him. I assumed from that you were saying you find him pro-town.
Also,

you have gone from 'not sure what to make of this' to 'second on my scumlist' on lumi

. Care to point out what about her you find scummy?

Nice catch there Nik. So far I'm still deciding whether to vote for either Saber of PS, the catch you just made with the Lumi thing just made Peace just drop down my townliness list. And saber's interpretation of peacesells taking off his vote sounds suspicious to me as well.

[Toro]

toro: is it my thoughts of what it meant that is suspicious, or that you think that the way i put it makes peacesells suspicious?

The way you put it, just found it peculiar.

[Toro]

Last ditch effort at a post before prod is sent.

[Toro]

Nik, peace, I'll offer my opinion on this after you two do, but do either of you want to respond to Saber's 444?

[Toro]

Nik, peace, I'll offer my opinion on this after you two do, but do either of you want to respond to Saber's 444?

quit asking others to do stuff for you then follow on the coattails. If you have a problem with 444, address it yourself,then let others follow suit.

Okay I will offer my opinion, I've got a feeling that you were trying to pull a "Ooo look over there!" with the Hohum post and redirect attention over there. This isn't making me get as strong of a scummy-feeling from Cow however. The way you jumped on sounded as if you were saying "F**K it, lynch the one who isn't doing anything worth a s**t."

And interesting how you didn't scold peacesells as how you did me.

[Toro]

Why don't we wait a day and then we can put the pressure on Hohum?

[Toro]

So if Hohum has anything to say you don't want to hear it?

Mmhmm.

Vote: Saberwolf

[Toro]

Well as of now I say we wait, then I'll be happy to throw a vote on hohum 24 hours from now.

[Toro]

I spy with my little eye...hohum in the Little Italy board.

[Toro]

Well good job, hohum, you've got my hopes up. And now you've left.

[Toro]

First off, welcome to the game SttB!

And secondly, this is just bulls**t (w/ hohum), it's been about 18 hours now so I feel ready to put a vote on now. Although I say we don't put on anymore 'til a couple hours from now.

Unvote

Vote: Hohum

[Toro]

Wait my bad.

Unvote

Vote: Hohum

Hohum posted in other games after the 17th. Some are lengthy posts I just checked the September time stamps and misread. Has' case is verified.

In that case then my vote stays where it is.

He has flipped from the peacesells bandwagon to the hohum wagon, the two competing wagons to saberwolf.

*Headdesk*

If Saber was scum why would I vote for him earlier in the game and not take it off when he was at

L-2

?

[Toro]

Wait my bad.

Unvote

Vote: Hohum

Hohum posted in other games after the 17th. Some are lengthy posts I just checked the September time stamps and misread. Has' case is verified.

In that case then my vote stays where it is.

He has flipped from the peacesells bandwagon to the hohum wagon, the two competing wagons to saberwolf.

*Headdesk*

If Saber was scum why would I vote for him earlier in the game and not take it off when he was at

L-2

?

Ah Christ, let me reword this.

Earlier you said that I'd look really scummy if Saber is lynched and came up scum, because I avoided his bandwagon. Don't you think I'd have taken off my vote on him of his original bandwagon if we were aligned together when it reached L-2?

[Toro]

I don't really see how any of my votes were bad wagon jumps, let's see here...

Cain

- First off, I was the one who started it, and I had legit reasons for it as well.

Saberwolf

- If you can honestly tell me that you wouldn't have placed a vote down on Saber after that whole debacle, you've got to be kidding.

Hohum

- The overall lack of participation and the whole "\o/" remark almost looked like he was mocking us and egging us on to lynch him, at least to me that's what it looked like.

I honestly don't see any reason you can call any of my votes bad.

[Toro]

I kind of agree with scott.

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

This is giving me a really bad vibe from both you and Scott now, sounds as if you two are werewolves and you'd want to make sure that Hohum (if he's the seer) doesn't speak to try and clear himself.

Unvote

Vote: Saberwolf

[Toro]

I kind of agree with scott.

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

This is giving me a really bad vibe from both you and Scott now, sounds as

if you two are werewolves

and you'd want to make sure that Hohum (if he's the seer) doesn't speak to try and clear himself.

Unvote

Vote: Saberwolf

Why can we only be werewolves? Since you are mafia and know your other members? Mafia-slip perhaps?

No, with saber agreeing with you about not having hohum claim at all when he could be the seer makes it sound as if you two just want to hurry up and not give the seer a chance to speak up. And you two (if you're werewolves) would want a quicklynch of the seer.

[Toro]

simply eh?

Just hope that Hohum turns up scum..otherwise..........

what the heck are you talking about? You're attacking saberwolf for correcting you? How incredibly ridiculous.

FoS

Are you and Saber scum partners? Why would a town player be so exasperated by one little comment? Why would you be defending him on day 1?

Why are you pinning the blame of the hohum wagon on saber Peace?

[Toro]

What sort of reaction were you looking for?

[Toro]

After reading this I wondered why his stance on Cain has drastically changed to wanting to lynch him after discarding my reasons that I stated originally as reasons that weren't enough to warrant a Cain-lynch.

I dunno, I could be reading too much into this, or I could be onto something. Zaz, your thoughts?

As said, not liking the vote. I first only saw that he changed from "inexperienced" to "inexperienced scum" for the same reasons.
Now, there have also been other things added. Like how he called Cain out for not questioning Mastin, but how he himself didn't question Cain.

But why did you only ask me?

*took awhile to track this down*

It was really open to anyone but I think you were on at the moment so I wanted to see what you thought about Kill's "Change of Heart."

[Toro]

haha...


you want to see defensive? I'll show you defensive.....


YOU ARE WRONG AND I WILL LAUGH IN ALL YOUR FACES WHEN YOU ALL LYNCH ME AND I FLIP TOWN. I AM A TOWNIE AND THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY. I AM NOT MAFIA, I AM NOT A WEREWOLF, I AM A TOWNIE. YOU GOT NOTHING ON ME...


and with that:

unvote; vote: saberwolf

Let's see what little information this actually gives you. I OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCE THIS AS AN ANTI-TOWN MOVE, AS YOU WILL GET VIRTUALLY NO INFO FROM THIS LYNCH. i SUPPORT MY OWN LYNCH, SO LONG AS SOMEBODY IS LYNCHED BEFORE DAY 1, AND AS IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HOHUM, I WILL NOW TAKE THE STAND.

good luck town.

Edited for excessive profanity, please tone it down

-Fuzzy

Magic 8-Ball said "what?"

[Toro]

You just gave scum "the anti town argument" to vote against you if you were townie.

Two days self implosion. :< If you are going to hang this in the background then scum hunting can't take place. It's a giant elephant in the room and we need to deal with this now.
Unvote
Vote: Sabrewolf
Scum hunt now and I'll unvote.

Lawl. If saberwolf flips town, I'm looking at DTM tomorrow. If saberwolf flips scum, I'm definitely looking at peacesells tomorrow.
I'm not buying the AtE from saberwolf. Before I vote, I'd like to hear peacesells's opinion on the matter.
@peacesells: If you ignore this question of mine, I'm going to tear you apart tomorrow, regardless of saber's flip. What do you think of saber's self-vote?

Magic 8-Ball said "what?"

Please input opinion. What do you think of saberwolf's self-vote?

Exactly what I said as the 8-Ball, "WHAT?"

Seriously.

[Toro]

Continuing from Page 19

Why don't we wait a day and then we can put the pressure on Hohum?

Why did you want to wait?

What, you wouldn't want to give Hohum a chance to speak and defend himself?

IGMEOY: Zazier

So if Hohum has anything to say you don't want to hear it?

Mmhmm.

Vote: Saberwolf

Misrep.[/quote]

Could you explain what you mean here Zaz?

[Toro]

You just gave scum "the anti town argument" to vote against you if you were townie.

Two days self implosion. :< If you are going to hang this in the background then scum hunting can't take place. It's a giant elephant in the room and we need to deal with this now.
Unvote
Vote: Sabrewolf
Scum hunt now and I'll unvote.

Lawl. If saberwolf flips town, I'm looking at DTM tomorrow. If saberwolf flips scum, I'm definitely looking at peacesells tomorrow.
I'm not buying the AtE from saberwolf. Before I vote, I'd like to hear peacesells's opinion on the matter.
@peacesells: If you ignore this question of mine, I'm going to tear you apart tomorrow, regardless of saber's flip. What do you think of saber's self-vote?

Magic 8-Ball said "what?"

Please input opinion. What do you think of saberwolf's self-vote?

Exactly what I said as the 8-Ball, "WHAT?"

Seriously.

So you're confused?
Do you think his self-vote is pro-town, anti-town, or null?
In your eyes, does saber's self-vote make him look more like scum, more like town, or null?

I was just confused on why he did it. I already thought Saber was anti-town/leaning anti-town throughout the game but this just sealed the deal for me.

[Toro]

Setting up chain lynches is scumzors, and also giving up this sort of information helps scum more than it helps fellow towns.

I'm not setting up chainlynches at all. I merely say I would be looking at those people tomorrow. If someone ends up scummier than either of the two tomorrow, I'll be more than happy to lynch them. And if I thought it would help scum more than town by posting it, I wouldn't have posted it.
DTM: Probably not getting killed tonight. I've said on multiple occasions that I'm suspicious of him, so I don't see how saying it once more will affect anything.
peacesells: Definitely not getting killed tonight. Not after that bandwagon on him midday.
Note that both of these can change based on the werewolves' opinions on these people (given they aren't werewolves themselves). i.e. whether they think said people are mafia.

Continuing from Page 19

Why don't we wait a day and then we can put the pressure on Hohum?

Why did you want to wait?

What, you wouldn't want to give Hohum a chance to speak and defend himself? IGMEOY: Zazier

OMGUS here.

I was just confused on why he did it. I already thought Saber was anti-town/leaning anti-town throughout the game but this just sealed the deal for me.

But does anti-town = scummy?

And Zazie, use green for Nikanor. (Just kidding! You'll get modkilled if you do).

So you wouldn't just not wait for Hohum and just quick-lynch him? Okay Nik. And of the anti-town = scummy argument, by anti-town I believe that Saberwolf is a member of a scum faction.

[Toro]

To people who claim I'm misrepresenting them, do you see where I'm coming from though when I say that you might not want to here what Hohum would've said?

[Toro]

Alright, that's the pot stirred, now let's play.


This was a gambit on my part, and most likely will get lynched, but I think we have seen some interesting views from people as of late.

I am very much eager to keep playing, so my vote will now go to use.

vote: nikanor

cause I don't buy your concerned for townie ploy. I call BS.

Someone call the Suicide Hotline?

[Toro]

If Saber's town (doubt it), I say we go after hohum. If Saber's scum (yup), I still say we go after hohum.

[Toro]

Aw fail quote tags.

HA!

[Toro]

That's all you have to say concerning SW? "I think he's town" That's pretty unhelpful, WHY do you think he's town. After his blowup, why is that a town tell to you?

Appeals to emotion are not exclusively done by scum. In fact I have often seen them done by town. This one seems genuine to me.

If someone claims seer and isn't the seer, the real seer should not counterclaim!

The fake seer will get killed at night.

Oh? How come (Regarding the bolded)?

The werewolves will kill them...unless the fake seer is a werewolf.
Regardless I still think the real seer should wait until at least one negative result before claiming. What do you think?

cause I don't buy your concerned for townie ploy. I call BS.

Where is this 'concerned for townie ploy' about which you keep speaking?

the whole time you bring up AtE as your main attack against me. Planning on scenarios, and trying to cover your ass with options upon my lynch.

I think scott is more likely to be scum, hence my vote on him. Join me, saberwolf.

I highly doubt you're going to get a lynch on Scott today ThAdmiral, with 5 hours until deadline, what are you going to accomplish by having Saberwolf join you?

[Toro]

Okay, before I head out to lunch let me post my response.

Second time you've tried to get away from this question. The first time, that player even got your vote.
Also, putting pressure on somebody is not the same as wanting to lynch that player. You make it sound as if that's the case.

Anyway, I'd have given Hohum a chance to speak and to defend himself. Have I stated otherwise?

To now answer your question, we should've waited a day in order for Hohum to speak up and defend himself, instead of just rushing in there and lynching him for his well...stupidness.

You could've just said that in response to my question to your question.

@ThAdmiral: Are you trying to stick up for your buddy Saberwolf? And you know what I mean by buddy.

[Toro]

45 Minutes guys...

And what happened to you being all suicidal Saber? Whatever happened to LYYYYNNNNNCCCCCCCHHHHHHH MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! ?

[Toro]

Had Saber not've been lynched, I could've seen him as the killer, hmm...will delve into this more later but I'm stuck doing homework now.

[Toro]

Vote Hohum

Any real reason for this vote Shotty?

[Toro]

Well..I really hate the way they handle night phases here. I don't see any reason why we should not be able to continue to discuss the game during that phase.

besides the fact that, you know, flavor-wise, everyone's sleeping?

Well, peacesells is an insomniac, good to know.

[Toro]

Can we get a votecount please fuzzy?

[Toro]

Enough room,

Vote: Hohum

[Toro]

@Peace

If he's not going to answer these questions then it's a strike against him. Town-Hohum can do a bandwagon analysis/reaction analysis but when you can pull out legitimate accusations against him then its no mistake that he appears scummy.

I don't see why you slightly frown upon the questions given the connotation of your statement.

I don't see why you insist on being scum. You should probably out yourself and your partner now.

Yes Hohum, whenever scum plays they always name their partner before they die.

In a more serious note, this post just sounds like a desperation attempt to get the attention off of him.

[Toro]

@Hohum
Address my claims again. a and b are my repeated questions, c and d are expanding on it.

a. How am I lying since I provided you meta pages in your search to prove that you were playing games past the 17th of August when you cease to play here.

b. Address my attack on you with the argument that you were actively lurking when you attacked Sabre and ignored my initial response.

c. Tell me why you ignored my questions, still even though you say I am attacking you with the lurker argument when I provided evidence that anyone can look at.

d. What is your case on me?

Actually Hohum, this thread needs more answers from you.

[Toro]

Upon rereading the DTM/Hohum argument. And with what Scott just said in 864, I think Hohum may've just slipped that he's mafia.

[Toro]

guys, we either need to lynch hohum or figure out what else we're doing today.

Are you in support of that lynch? You haven't said much and aren't voting.

Do you have any other better ideas on where to go today Cow?

[Toro]

Care to wager he'll pop back in within 2-3 days completely oblivious to what you just said DTM?

[Toro]

So did lynch go through or are we at L-1? Pretty sure it's L-1 but just asking.

[Toro]

Hahaha, I'm pretty sure Scott is mafia.
@Scott: Shotty's unvote of hohum is not scummy. If Shotty had not unvoted, hohum would most likely have self-hammered then and there, which would have been much more beneficial for scum than for town.
I agree with Cow that lynching our mafia suspects is the right way to go for now. We still have a seer that can out the last wolf, remember.
Also, now that we are down to one wolf, the seer should claim as soon as he gets a guilty. That way we can kill the last wolf as well as have a confirmed townie that cannot be killed.

What makes you say that Scott is Mafia Nik?

[Toro]

And Scott, point out every single one of my votes and the reasons I voted for them, then explain to me how I'm 'blending in.'

[Toro]

Hahaha, I'm pretty sure Scott is mafia.
@Scott: Shotty's unvote of hohum is not scummy. If Shotty had not unvoted, hohum would most likely have self-hammered then and there, which would have been much more beneficial for scum than for town.
I agree with Cow that lynching our mafia suspects is the right way to go for now. We still have a seer that can out the last wolf, remember.
Also, now that we are down to one wolf, the seer should claim as soon as he gets a guilty. That way we can kill the last wolf as well as have a confirmed townie that cannot be killed.

What makes you say that Scott is Mafia Nik?

He's trying to go after an easy target saying my unvote is scummy when it really isn't, for one. Also he really wants to focus on the werewolves, makes him sound like mafia which will probably win for sure with a full team and both wolves down. I'll have to reread to verify but I'm pretty sure someone else posted on Scott yesterday.

Will read back and verify it for you, I do seem to recall Scott as having a 'Werewolf-Killer' type of attitude though.

[Toro]

Toro has been on every wagon this entire game. Anytime someone is at an L-2 or L-1, Toro is on the wagon. It just appears as if he's trying to blend in. Seems like potential mafia behavior to avoid being killed by wolf or lynched by town.

Kind of funny coming from the guy on the Hohum and Saberwolf wagons as well Scott.

-----------------------------

Reread for Shotty, Nikanor summed it up best with this...

@Scott: Shotty's unvote of hohum is not scummy. If Shotty had not unvoted, hohum would most likely have self-hammered then and there, which would have been much more beneficial for scum than for town.

-----------------------------

So after weighing the whole only hunting for werewolves deal and after the fact he's going only after easy bandwagons.

Vote: Scott Brosius

[Toro]

And Scott, point out every single one of my votes and the reasons I voted for them, then explain to me how I'm 'blending in.'

I'm still waiting for you to do this Scott.

[Toro]

@Town
To put things in perspective we are at 4 townies (with 1 seer) vs 3 mafia vs 1 wolf, which is basically consistent of 50% scum town population. While a wolf killing mafia will greatly benefit town, the reverse can happen and a mislynch/town night kill will cause in a 2 v 3 v 1 worst case scenario. Be wary of this has/Admiral/Nik. The goal remains the same regardless: lynch scum.

If we mislynch and the werewolf kills off a town member, mafia wins right? Just seeing if you know this.

[Toro]

Oh forgot they can't kill, my bad.

[Toro]

mylo = mislynch or lose?

[Toro]

If we mislynch and the werewolf kills off a town member, mafia wins right? Just seeing if you know this.

No, since mafia can't kill, we still have a chance in a 2v3v1 game. So long as we commit to a no-lynch (the wolf would have to agree with us here, since it is his best chance of staying alive), if the wolf kills mafia, it'll be 2v2v1, then if we lynch mafia and the wolf kills mafia, it's down to 2v1. After that, we lynch the wolf, and town wins.
It's a long shot, but the possibility is there.

True but why does the Wolf want to help us win again?

I'm also interested in the answer to this question, sort of puzzled on why we want the guy slaughtering us helping us.

[Toro]

Does any mafia or does the last werewolf want to claim now?

God I'm feeling the pressure.

[Toro]

God I'm feeling the pressure.

What's that supposed to mean?

If we mislynch and the werewolf picks off one of us townmembers, we lose. You don't call that pressure?

[Toro]

I've just had a revelation.

Unvote.

Go on...

[Toro]

Go on...

No.

Any why not? If you have something to share with us, go ahead and share it.

[Toro]

Yes.

Unvote

Vote: Nikanor

[Toro]

Bait wins. A townie wouldn't push me on this.

Vote: Toro.

what makes you say that?

Because I've done exactly the same thing as scum.
Toro is newbscum trying to look townie by pushing someone on a seemingly anti-town action.

Are you hiding something Nik? Why shouldn't the town be allowed to know what you

claim

to have just discovered in a revelation?

And ThAdmiral, I don't like how you just roll with Nikanor just like that.

[Toro]

Depends what it is, is this revelation important or not?

[Toro]

Bait wins. A townie wouldn't push me on this.

Vote: Toro.

what makes you say that?

Because I've done exactly the same thing as scum.
Toro is newbscum trying to look townie by pushing someone on a seemingly anti-town action.

So because you did that once and you were a scum role, automatically makes me a scumrole? You're trying to grasp a lead here but you're only grabbing thin air Nikanor.

And what exactly are you hiding?

One last note, anyone else find it ironic that he's calling me out on a seemingly anti-town action when I called him out when he wouldn't disclose information, that being an anti-town action.

[Toro]

But it'd sure as hell be beneficial for us to hear what Nik has to say and then possibly act on his theory.

[Toro]

:<. The whole pressure voting when you want more answers depends on the situation. In a case where X person says: I have reason to know this Y person is scum and then votes, then it's scummy to attack X since he is obviously cop.

When someone is uncooperative with something like this, there is a concept called pressure voting to get them to talk. It's not like you have information to share to the town, you just baited someone to attack you for being anti-town when you potentially have insight. This just reads as null tells on both counts, and just plain meh.

But you just established two things:

Admiral - Nik linkage.
Toro - Scott linkage.

I can tell you now that I'm not grouped with Scott in anyway, but the way how ThAdmiral just jumped onto Nikanor's bandwagon makes me think that connection is possible.

[Toro]

And ThAdmiral, I don't like how you just roll with Nikanor just like that.

You wouldn't like that since I'm voting you.

Basically think of the most recent thing with nikanor as a delightful cherry on top of the already delicious looking cake that is your scumminess.

Well yes, and the way you instantly just jump on saying "I like" sounds like you're just riding this bandwagon.

[Toro]

Y'know what? You two can go ahead and try to lynch me, I hope that as soon as I turn up town you both will be hanging from a tree.

Go town.

[Toro]

I'm just getting that feeling that the same crap from Internal Struggle's going to happen again.

[Toro]

Scum intimidation tactic?

[Toro]

Trust me, I have no intentions of self-voting. I'm just saying (though I may've said it otherwise) that if I'm lynched and come out town, go after Nikanor and ThAdmiral, as I'm sure they're at least two members of the mafia.

[Toro]

Trust me, I have no intentions of self-voting. I'm just saying (though I may've said it otherwise) that if I'm lynched and come out town, go after Nikanor and ThAdmiral, as I'm sure they're at least two members of the mafia.

You seem awfully worried for being at L-3.

that was my thought too.

And Toro, why are you so sure that two people who disagree with you are mafia? Is there any specific reason? Because it just looks like OMGUS to me.

Here's the reason, ThAdmiral just quickly jumps on the bandwagon that Nikanor started rather quickly and without reason really. So I figured they must be two members of the mafia.

[Toro]

I'm not joking when I say that 990-992 was the biggest f**king De Ja Vu I've ever had.

[Toro]

You know when you just sorta visualize something happening (or in this case, someone saying something) and then it happens. Yeah, that's what just happened.

[Toro]

Sorry for not posting Nik, of where do you want me to post my thoughts of peacesells, from the start of D3 or throughout the game?

[Toro]

10: Actually.. Toro mentioned the Mafia as evil Masons here. Then he forgot that they can kill today. Someone forgot to pay attention to the game methinks. /offtopic thought

I'm pretty sure that I didn't say they could kill DTM, could you please post the link to my post?

[Toro]

Last Words? I'm laughing atm.

[Toro]

I would definitely say that Toro's behavior in this game is different than another one he is playing. He's definitely actively defending himself there. I'm not sure if it is a tell or not but shows he is capable of active defense.

I follow the philosophy that it is town's job to actively defend yourself to the death along with scum hunting.

Athough once a solid wagon has been built no amount of defending can derail it...but the interactions you have while making your defence leaves clues behind for the remaining townees to scumhunt.

Toro..if you are town...you need to defend yourself. You need refute what people are saying. This is your way of scumhunting.

What's to defend myself against? Falling into Nik's "trap", how do you expect me to get out of that one without Nik just saying, "Nope, lynch 'em anyways."

[Toro]

By pointing out flaws in his logic. Pointing out where you have issues. It doesn't matter if he responds with "nope, lynch'em anyway." cause those responses well be telling us something if you flip innocent.

The whole argument he used against me in the first place is a flaw in his logic!

[Toro]

Looking at the interactions between nik and hohum on pages 2-4, I doubt Nik is the last werewolf.

Why? Because you are?

[Toro]

Good job.