![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Also, I'm going to be leaving MN at ~7am CST on Friday, which means I should be in Nebraska ~4pm. I could potentially not post at all Friday depending on how I feel when I get back. Just a little warning there.
Iowa Department of Transportation wrote: Travel is currently not advised in all of western Iowa, counties along the I-35 corridor, and parts of east central Iowa due to very treacherous road conditions and blowing snow. The Iowa State Patrol has issued a tow ban for the affected areas.
Unless there's a really strong scum tell that pops up d1, I'm generally up for lynching the most anti-town person (non-contributor, person who frequently side-tracks town, etc). This obviously doesn't correlate completely with who is scum but it helps to find scum on later days. Basically, the defense "x isn't helping the town, but I don't think it's scummy" doesn't fly with me D1 (and to be fair, doesn't fly with me in most situations, but especially not D1.)Hoopla 32 wrote:What goes in to everyone's decisions when they decide on their Day 1 lynch candidate?
Great typo or greatest typo?RedCoyote 43 wrote:but to speak for The Tracker like angel is doing here could point totreesaw defendingor possibly buddying?
Scumslips in the RVS do happen; things like that are why we have the RVS. That being said, I'm not too inclined to think of this as a scumslip. After all, a quicklynch would be mistaken this early in the game, so I suppose you could call it a 'mislynch' even without knowing that I'm going to flip town. I'm not going to suspect tracker of being scum because I think he KNOWS I'm going to flip town, just based off of that one comment.mindgamer 44 wrote:Please tell me why you think a joke, in particular one in RVS, can be a strong scumtell.
Are you implying that you are serious in thinking mindgamer is 'obvscum'?Tracker 45 wrote:Calling it a joke or whatever is wrong.
angelmouse [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2056957#2056957]52[/url] wrote:
I can see what you mean, now. i missed the fact it wasmislunchand not lynch. I still feel you acted strongly so early on.
+1nothing to say?quagmire wrote: hi im here
Protip: Pressure voting doesn't work if you call it pressure voting.Nachomamma8 wrote: Vote: The Tracker
He's overreacting to the small amount of pressure on him. So I want to see what happens if there's just a little more.
At first I chalked it up to a different way to RVS but the more it keeps happening the more I agree with you. Hey Hoopla, you can have a period instead of a question mark at the end of your sentences. Trust me, it'll survive even without the squiggly hat.Cyberbob [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2057818#2057818]58[/url] wrote:Hoopla, are you going to offer any opinions of your own on the actual game? All you've had to offer so far has been questions that either belong in MD or are totally irrelevant (thinking of that question about the Saudi Gazette).
I just want to get a wagon going. I picked Quagmire because he dropped in twice (and a third time in between these posts) to say 'Hey, I have nothing to say.' (Though especially after his latest post one could do say the same about Flare.)The Tracker wrote:Why are you so intent on Quagmire? Or was it a joke?
Nailed it. There are quite a few others who I'd be almost as happy wagoning, but Quagmire rose to the top of the pack when it was my pick.RC [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2061599#2061599]85[/url] wrote: hito seems to be saying, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, that Quagmire is a good wagon because of his stubborn lack of contribution, despite posting three times.
hitogoroshi wrote:If you think it's disagreeable why didn't you bring it up on page 2 when multiple players (myself, cyberbob, RC) all mentioned that it is a factor we consider when picking a D1 lynch candidate?
This isn't the point. If you disagree with people who policy lynch, why didn't you say anything when multiple players said they would be up for a policy lynch D1 on the second page? Why wait until Quagmire specifically is named as a potential target?Nachomamma8 [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2064936#2064936]141[/url] wrote:I didn't think that it'd come up day 1. The playerlist was not really policy lynch worthy.Hito wrote: Policy lynching is wonderful and fantastic and full of sunshine rainbows, Nacho. As I said I need to consider whether this specific case merits it, but to say that policy lynching itself is wrong is itself wrong. If you think it's disagreeable why didn't you bring it up on page 2 when multiple players (myself, cyberbob, RC) all mentioned that it is a factor we consider when picking a D1 lynch candidate?
This is truth. I can totally appreciate Quagmire's point that he'll be contributing towards the town D1, but it comes at a significant, significant cost to the town.RedCoyote [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2065077#2065077]143[/url] wrote: I don't feel as though it's your role to observe the game, but to play it along side us. It's probably sounding a bit like a broken record, but none of us here need to lecture you about the necessity of participation. I'm especially curious to hear you ask questions and provoke other players, not just pop up and say, "have I commented on everything? k, l8r."
Your post 112 is a good example of what I don't want to see. The basis of the question is terrific, but it's asked from a position of weakness and nonchalance. What I mean by that is, like, okay, you spent two seconds looking at the latest vote count, but why not go deeper with it? Why not go back to Flare's latest post, Cyberbob, or Nacho, and ask them about the post with which they voted? If you think the reasoning is weak (you've said it yourself that you've seen nothing scummy so far), maybe you should tell them why it is they're getting overly excited. I'd be happy to see Quagmire v.s. cruelty over The Tracker wagon.
Again, I don't want to come across as patronizing, because I know you're aware of all of this. I honestly just want to see you play the game with us. I feel completely shortchanged at this point.
The part in red is the part where you and I stop agreeing. You're in a situation where you are looking for scum regardless of alignment D1, but that does NOT mean your actions are in the towns best interests. It's especially odd that Nacho is the one arguing we should 'treat him as town d1, and throw out our d1 reads d2' because he's going to be my counter-example.Quagmire 150 wrote: How many times do I have to explain this before people understand it? No matter what I am, I am working towards my win condition. If I'm town, I am actively scumhunting and finding scum (even though it may not seem as such so far, as I haven't found much, but I am). If I'm scum, I'm spending day one actively scumhunting, and that goes an incredibly long way for me for future days. The latter is the same situation if I'm third-party.
So therefore not reading my role PM advances my win condition in all three ways,therefore it is a pro-whatever-side-I'm-on move.For today, it's pro-town. Any attempt from here on out to try and manipulate this position as anti-town in the manner Hoopla just did I will consider absurd and I'm not even going to take the time to respond to it. Unless you're just disagreeing with me and want to ask me about it some more.
Firstly, I'm not at all talking about lynch exchanges - I was just using cyberbob/tracker as a random hypothetical.Nachomamma8 [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2066671#2066671]160[/url] wrote:
Also, if you'd like to talk about alignment lurking... Chaco lurked all through day 1. Drowmage lurked all through day 1. Had you policy lynched both of them, there would be no paper trail, and you'd already be down 3 townies, and 1 tracker. You don't lynch null-reads on day 1; you let them get replaced. And in a sense, Quagmire will be replaced Day 2 by a player that actually knows their role.
As for your second point, that can go either way. We know Quagmire's play will be different tomorrow, so why not lynch Tracker today and Quagmire tomorrow? Then we're lynching scummy over anti-town both times. Also, I hate when people try to get a lynch on exchanges (hey, you lynch Quagmire today, we can both lynch Tracker tomorrow).
What in the world makes you think this is about whether or not it will hurtFlare 171 wrote:There's really no way not opening his PM could hurt him unless he had a day ability or could talk during the day with another player
I think what's more relevant is that he brings a lot of heat on himself and distract the town, giving scum a perfect smokescreen (as RC said). It's not that a town PR will be forced to claim that's the problem - the problem is that it makes a situation where the optimum scum play and optimum town play are more or less the same.cruelty [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2068734#2068734]185[/url] wrote:
You know what the worst part of this playstyle is? You bring a lot of heat on yourself and distract town entirely (everyone is pretty much tunneled on you right now), so if you are a town power role, you're going to be forced into claiming day 1, thus heavily compromising your ability to help us. It's just fucking bad play.
I'd be careful with such simplistic analysis. In the first case - well, Hoopla and RC, you'll remember Crossfire. There were 13 votes on a townie wagon - only two scum (one of which was a traitor who didn't even know who the scum were yet, and the other hammered.) There are easy wagons for scum to jump on, but there are also easy wagons for scum NOT to jump on and still feel secure knowing they'll go through.Nachomamma8 [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2068889#2068889]189[/url] wrote: If Quagmire flips town, I'll be excited to reexamine his wagon, to find people like you & cruelty who have been jumping on a wagon at opportune times.
If Quagmire flips scum, I'll be excited to look at people like Mindgamer and The Tracker, who have failed to comment on the Quagmire wagon at all.
I don't care about how it benefitsQuag 208 wrote:hitorogoshi, that is really bad analysis. You're clearly reaching to vote here, you could just admit it. I've explained numerous times why this benefits me as town as well.
This point has come up many times but your post makes it the clearest so I'm going to quote it.angelmouse 240 wrote:@minder: I'm not defending his play style, certainly not, and I don't think it's a good tactic at all. That said, it seems to be his play style so what more can we say other than it sucks and live with it?
"Less room for original cases" (which for the record isn't true - it can be too late for a specific bandwagon, but it's never too late to dig up stuff on the prevailing wagons) doesn't mean that you can simply say 'I agree with those cases'. Can you not even be asked to say what player's cases, and what points within those case? And how is deadline creeping closer an excuse when you've been doing thisThe Tracker [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2074080#2074080]259[/url] wrote: @Cruelty: With the deadline creeping closer and closer do you not agree that there's less room for original cases? I found those cases and read them, yes, and I happened to like the reasoning. I also read Flareon's posts and honestly they just didn't sit well with me.
What does her miller claim have to do with her play? What you're saying is, "Here is what I think about Hoopla's play: she's town, unless she does something scummy, in which case she is scum." Way to take a position there, champ.The Tracker [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2074460#2074460]263[/url] wrote:I don't like her play since it gives her as scum too much of a free pass out of investigations. But I suppose if she does something scummy later on we'll catch it.
(emphasis mine)Mindgamer [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2075318#2075318]294[/url] wrote:The Tracker's role claim is interesting. It's not a very safe role to claim, so I believe it to be true for the moment. If there are two nightkills tonight, The Tracker's role is pretty much confirmed. If there is only one nightkill, The Tracker would be more suspicious, because I don't think the mafia/SK would waste their nightkill only to raise suspicion on The Tracker.Though the chance that we have an FBI Agent without a Serial Killer also exists, of course.
To clarify, sitting back was meant in just the context of Hoopla's 'case' on you. I think it's based off of some seriously sketchy and frivolous logic, and while normally I'd like to immediately begin bearing down against the case and Hoopla, I'm willing to let it unweave a little longer because Hoopla is at least following a line of reasoning that's important to her, even if I think it's a really dumb line of reasoning. Contrast with: cruelty has not posted d2, mindgamer and angelmouse have each posted once d2.RedCoyote [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2084038#2084038]340[/url] wrote:Since you're content on kicking back, let me grill you a bit. If Mindgamer was taken out of the picture, who is next on your list?hito 343 wrote:Well I still think you're wasting both your time and ours with that line of inquiry, but you're at least following a line of inquiry at all which is more than can be said of most people here. So I guess for now I'll just sit back and watch the show.
despite the fact that he spent most of the day specifying that he did see a Quagmire lynch as particularly horrible. Strikes me as just making sure he could get his 'right idea' down for posterity before going along with the wave. More importantly, he's doing a lot of very short, information-instead-of-analysis type posts. He's the prime example of someone who posts a lot on game related things while failing to really deliver an actual opinion on the proceedings. And the one main opinion he did deliver (that a Quagmire lynch) apparently changed to 'I don't see it as particularity horrible...' in the span of half a day.Nacho [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2075865#2075865]302[/url] wrote:Well, I don't see a Quagmire lynch as particularly horrible, but I still seriously want a Tracker lynch over a Quagmire lynch...
ISO 3, ISO 5, ISO 6, and ISO 23 are just questions and nothing else. You also have posts like ISO 17 where'll you define a point or something and then slip out. You were voting Tracker the entire day - but you made lots of posts where you offered no scum reads and never once stopped to say, 'Hey, other townies, vote tracker.'Nachomamma8 wrote: And could you provide ISO numbers to where I fell into IIoA? Because I'm pretty sure you've been doing it far more than I have.
I tried to kill the Quag wagon and start the Tracker wagon after I thought about it. You were voting tracker the whole day, yes, but the only time you ever asked anyone else to join it was when you quoted me saying it. Do you not know the difference between voting for someone and wagoning them? You put a very weak vote on Tracker (it was a pressure vote at the time), and held on to it the whole day without ever making it strong.Now, the one main opinion (after me saying Tracker was scum and we shouldn't lynch Quag of course) that Quag wasn't particularly horrible was me stating that I was willing to lynch Quagmire instead of letting a no-lynch come. I'd say that "contridiction" was a hell of a lot more town than yours: You were Mr. Let's Kill Quagmire the whole day, and when the wagon had gained far too much momentum to stop, then you mentioned that you were feeling doubts. Seems like a cheap way to gain tow points in my eyes.
But it doesn't tell us anything about YOU. I suppose IIoA is the wrong word, call it active lurking instead. Just asking a question tells us as much about you as if you had poked your head into the thread, said 'margarine is not an acceptable alternative to butter', and left again. Questions are a privilege you earn to add along with your content posting; to ask that we take your questions and CALL them content won't fly.Nachomamma8 [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2085076#2085076]356[/url] wrote: Erm, none of those posts show IIoA in the slightest. I scumhunt by asking questions; this gives me better reads on people. How else am I supposed to figure anything out?
*shrug* nothing to say here, other than that with Quag deliberately trolling the town I'm surprised I managed to get over it at ALL.And, conveniently enough, it took you until 5 days before deadline to have your little epiphany.
Pushing a Tracker wagon would have done far, far more to derail the Quagmire wagon than just yelling 'no one can vote quagmire today, we have to give him lynch immunity while he trolls us!' That's the difference in our positions, and I suppose that it's a bit unfair for me to call you scum on this point - I assumed you would have understood that making a counter-wagon viable would have done far more to derail Quagmire's lynch, but I see now that might not be the case.And asking people to join =/= gaining strength for your vote. I was spending most of my time trying to derail the Quagmire wagon, and until that was done, I didn't see most of you voting for else. What was I supposed to do, sneak in a "Look at Tracker! He's still not contributing!" every 5 seconds? Would that make it strong enough for your standards?
Only with 'compromise on a lynch' replaced with 'take the easy lurkervote'.I can sort of see where she's coming from with her vote on RC. While statistically Quag was more likely to be town that scum, he did seem to be fairly strongly neglecting the possibility of Quag-scum. But Hoopla's last three posts really rub me the wrong way. Iget the impression that she went for a deliberately 'hard' looking target so she can look townie, doesn't actually intend to PUSH the RC wagon but instead will just defend her claim, and will 'compromise' on a lynch later in the day.Hoopla, let's focus less on 'this is why I'm a miller' and more on 'this is why you should all vote for RC'.
My vote on Mindgamer isn't a lurker vote. And the reason I dislike Hoopla's vote is not because it's "easy" - it's because it's an easy vote after she assured me her points on RC and the ensuing PR discussion was something very important and it seems it all has amounted to absolutely nothing.Wouldn't the easiest lurker-vote to be vote Mindgamer? He has more votes on him, and he hasn't exactly improved his play lately.
Wow, I actually agree with Flare here. AtE is one of those things, like misrepresentation, that townies very often see in others and scum very rarely choose to do deliberately. +town points for you, sir.Flareonage [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2087405#2087405]378[/url] wrote:[/game]How many of you ACTUALLY think, "Hey, I'm going to appeal to everyone's emotions with my next post."? I doubt anyone actually does that whether they are scum or not. You all should stop following the wiki so much and play the game the way you want to play the game. Leave the poor guy alone, if you don't believe him then you can say that but don't accuse him of trying to appeal to peoples emotions[game]
Mindgamer is still my favorite lynch candidate. Angelmouse/angelmouse's replacement is gonna have a lot on their plate when they get back but I can't think of anything particularly scummy from that slot. RC is my strongest town read right now.Hoopla [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2088421#2088421]391[/url] wrote:I still disagree, but I like the way you've been arguing.
I have solid town reads on AGar, hitogoroshi and The Tracker. Who should we lynch, guys? Does it have to be Mindgamer? What are your thoughts on RedCoyote and angelmouse?
I'm not at all convinced that's enough reasoning for a vote, and I'm curious to know why Hoopla and Tracker think differently. (Tracker isn't voting RC, I know, but he says 'he can see why' and quite frankly I can't.)cruelty [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2088881#2088881]394[/url] wrote:Ok Red, let's take your vote seriously.
RC (my bolding) wrote:I seriously got the impression that cruelty voted Quagmire almost purely out of spite, especially after their little slapfest at the end of the day. He won't agree with that characterization of course, but the town can draw their own conclusions. cruelty played a big part in artifically extending that wagon.He either did so out of emotion and principle, being against Quagmire's D1 play, or he did so to because he did not want another wagon to garner any steam, as lynching townQuagmire or (supposedly) townTheTracker would've been good enough.
That's inconsistent. The first bolded part, you're sure I'm basing my vote on emotion, then you're suddenly ascribing devious logic to it, saying that I artificially extended the wagon out ofeitherspite or strategy.
That's not a case. That's a silly little justification for a vote with a backdoor you can quietly slip out if things don't work out.
I can understand this because I used to be the same way, but this is actually a bad mindset to have. Your vote is more or less your most powerful tool in getting the game to go in the direction you want it to go; holding in your pocket for a sure read you can be confident in isn't a good plan of action in most cases.Tracker [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2092441#2092441]436[/url] wrote: Red, here's the thing, I don't find any discrepancies in your post to build a solid case on. Just little things that don't equate to a vote. If you're not confident in your vote or case, why bother with one? That's one of my rules.
Oh my goodness this is so scummy. This is saying 'well gee, I'm doing this anti-town thing, but if I point out I'm doing it it becomes harder to use it in a case on me.' Townies try to FIX the anti-town things they are doing; not just try to make them less capable arguing points.cruelty 493 wrote:Sarcasm mixed with acknowledgment.RedCoyote wrote:I guess you're being sarcastic here, but it is true.cruelty 480 wrote:It's true. I'm driving full tilt down an OMGUS tunnel with the lights off and Lynyrd Skynyrd blasting out Free Bird.
Yes. Red's posting clearly, driving the town, and scumhunting.Hoopla [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2098411#2098411]500[/url] wrote: Hito, you'd seriously prefer no-lynch over an RC lynch?
To be clear, I'm not saying I have a strong town read on Mindgamer - only that his more recent posts are weakening my scum read on him. Right now I think I'd peg Mindgamer as neutral-leaning-scum.Faraday [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2099416#2099416]524[/url] wrote: Hito what are you going to do with your vote now that we have a deadline extension in lieu of the fact you believe Mindgamer to be town.
whyHoopla wrote: Hello hito, I think cruelty's play is pro-town,
whyFaraday wrote: I think he's town.
SW wrote: FYI im vanilla.
Snow White wrote:Nahhh. Okay i lied. I didnt misread btw, iintentionally lied.Im an FBI agent and wanted to try to keep it as much in the dark as possible having just replaced in.
Yep! That's awesome.Hoopla wrote:Snow White wrote:No Hoopla. I should not have lied. I deserved to be hammered and i am sorry to all for acting so foolishly.
I was indeed a town FBI agent.
Did I do it right, hito?