Mini Normal 1133 - Mafia in Venice

[Space Pope]

Ok, confirming that I'm replacing plague. Will start reading thread now.

[Space Pope]

Ok, finished reading. I have 1 strong town read (won't reveal) and 2 strong scum reads: Budja and NE.

unvote

plague's vote.

When I get back, I'll elaborate more and vote.

[Space Pope]

Penpen- Fluff. Though he replaced out early, I'm not holding this too much against the slot.

Budja- Intro post is scummy. Takes the player who is at the forefront of attention, calls his actions that others find scummy, as town tells.

Vote: Budja

[Space Pope]

Moz- He is semi defending a prominent player. Budja-scum sees this as an opportunity to 1) distance from a possible lynch if the slot gains support or 2) buddys to a player who is vocal (thus able to guide town away from himself through another player).

NE- Fluff is, well fluff. Since he replaced out I tend to think the player was less dedicated to the game (enforced by it only being the beginning before a player becomes invested), it is semi-reasonable. I voted Budja over you for the fact that I find him scummier. If I can't garner support for Budja, I'll tuck that away for later and pull out my case and vote on you.

EA- While I appreciate the fact you are voting scum, your reasonning is weak and can easily be retracted if need be.

[Space Pope]

I don't like NE's recent vote. Voting someone for not posting, when they say they will by x and x hasn't came yet. Seems like an opportunistic vote.

[Space Pope]

And by seems like, I mean is.

[Space Pope]

NE scum case- ISO read:

2,3- I see as early game distancing with a weak case (no random voting for no reason comes from scum).

From 4-5: Slot is scummy, not going to unvote anytime soon to not sure about Budja (Budja's post were that EA is drawing too much attention to be scummy).

6: He explains 4-5 to EA. Here he "forgot" to mention Budja's Plague vote, then claims no information from rereading the game (around the EA wagon that he thought was scum driven)

This is why I wanted Budja lynched first, as it solidifies my stance on NE much more.

@Budja- Don't replace in if you are not sure on your time commitments. And if you have to replace out, at least try and find someone to take your slot...

I agree with Exilon that Moz is fencesitting. However, I do not find this scummy yet. I'd hold judgment until it is evident that fencesitting in a certain scenario is beneficial for scum (on a wagon that goes to lynch for example).

On Klazam- He was MIA for 5 days (4 gone, 1 was just will post tonight). Considering that this game has only been going on for 7 days, I do not see this as sufficent evidence that Klazam was active lurking. And is being blown out of proportion by NE.

EA- In my original post I meant to have both:

I don't like NE's recent vote. Voting someone for not posting, when they say they will by x and x hasn't came yet. Seems like an opportunistic vote. And by seems like, I mean is.

But I was having a conversation while I played and forgot to include the last sentence. When I submitted, I noticed the difference and I posted again to edit it.

[Space Pope]

RedCoyote 280- This post is kind of scummy. It's fence sitting in the fact he calls moz both scum and town, but proceeds to vote him. (thus if Moz flips town, has an out). Then 286 addresses this, however he says he wants people to vote Moz if they think he is town (paraphrasing). I wouldn't want town to be on a wagon that they thought was on an anti-town person, don't know why RedCoyote does.

"Him being an anti-town player just makes it an easier pill for those that may not necessarily see him as the most scummy to swallow."

[Space Pope]

Logically, I would say that scum wouldn't try and put another scum member in the spotlight, when another one is already. So, with that in mind, I looked at everyone's ISO's concerning Budja with the premise that scum would try to ignore him (especially as the day went along):

Agar- Budja this is fail logic (doesn’t attack, just tells him he is wrong)
Attacks Budja/Moz comparison since Budja isn’t posting

EA- Agrees with Penpen/asks why Penpen quoted Agar’s bad post
Votes since Budja didn’t attack anyone x2
Tells town to vote Budja or SV

Exilon- Wants more content

ICEninja- Didn’t understand plague vote

Mae*- Addressed Penpen’s question on her RVS vote
Votes penpen
Contemplates unvoting Budja, no town vibe
Unvotes Buja (labeled strongest scum read) for lurking klazam
Budja needs to vote more

NE- Votes penpen for not voting w/o reason in RVS
Says Penpen hasn’t backed up his attack on NE
Unvotes Budja, says not sure, then says there are scum on the EA wagon (note that budja wasn’t)
Slight defends Budja
Fences on Budja’s plague vote

RedCoyote- Wants me to express other scum read than Budja

SV- 2 posts in game, says budja was scummy but not now that he is replacing out

Ythan- Doesn’t like a penpen post
Kind of attacks penpen, says penpen mass replaced out and asked if he was a newb/wants him to expand his last post
Says budja is using too scummy to be town fallacy (paraphrasing)x2
Calls budja one of his top suspects
Makes an upset post about budja replacing out (I think)




*Mae ISO 17 and 24- unvotes the scummiest player (budja), for a lurker (klazam). Then when Klazam starts posting, unvotes but doesn’t vote Budja again, but urges him to post more

Agar- 2
EA- 4
Exilon- 1
ICEninja- 1
Mae- 5
NE- 5
RC- 1
SV- 1
Ythan- 6

SV/RC/Exilon/ICE/Agar mentioned Budja slot the least, which is scummy.

I find the Mae posts I read to be pretty scummy in and of itself

NE defended Budja slot, which is scummy


Now compared to see if scum were bussing the Moz slot (likely as she was taking a shit ton of negative attention):

Pappums hammer vote was scum
RC’s vote was scummy, but with a scum flip is doubtful
SV’s vote was easily removable since he said he wasn’t done catching up
Mae’s vote was that Moz was fence sitting
Exilon was very vocal against Moz w/ fence sitting being the basis
Agar votes Moz for posting fluff, easily removable as well
ICE vote is ISO 8, can’t really pin it for an exact reason, but a bunch of scummy things Moz did


After looking at it and weighing it, I would say my scum list is (from scummiest to least):

Mae
NE
SV
Agar

Vote: Mae

[Space Pope]

Space Pope- Why is my name not on your scumlist? I said nothing about BudjaSlot whatsover. Did you miss me or was i just not considered?

Hmm... I probably just skipped over you as you are just above the game mod on the drop down menu.

Looking at your ISO you brought up Budja slot 0 times. Now I would definitely say that is pretty scummy. But since you were inactive a bit in the beginning, then had to defend yourself a bit, but more importantly brought up that I left you off, I would say you are town. By bringing it up, you were risking me voting you since you came off the worst of all the other posts in respect to discussion about/with Budjaslot and risking the town not digressing away from you. Self-preservation would have said, "Let Space Pope vote Mae and draw attention to a townie."

Now if you are town, Agar comes off a bit scummy for voting you right off the bat today because he 1) dismissed Mass Claim which is, essentially, the play for right now (I'll start-

I'm VT. Now Agar goes next

) and 2) Thought you were pretty obvious scum so didn't even bother making a case to garner support (this tells me he is confident Klazam will be lynched and that means Agar-scum would feel this is an easy mislynch 3) Reason 1 and 2 equals quick day with town gaining little information if Klazam is town.

[Space Pope]

How is it hilarious? Popcorn is obvious and best way of doing it. I volunteered to go first and I picked who I thought to go second. Then you want to quicklynch Klazam because you are "confident" he is scum.

unvote

vote: AGAR

[Space Pope]

ICE- 1) wasn't asking you 2) Agar found it hilarious that I was dictating the DIRECTION not that I was starting. He has a qualm with going second.

[Space Pope]

How is it hilarious? Popcorn is obvious and best way of doing it. I volunteered to go first and I picked who I thought to go second. Then you want to quicklynch Klazam because you are "confident" he is scum.

unvote

vote: AGAR

Because one player doesn't just get to choose "Ok, we're massclaiming, I'm starting and this is who's going second." That gives scum an opportunity to go "HERPA DERPA ME FIRST, THIS IS MY SUPER-AWESOME FAKECLAIM"

That doesn't even make sense.
1) This makes the assumption that you think I am scum, which isn't likely as 4 scum is improbable in a mini normal and the fact that you are so damn certain that Klazam is scum that you are quick to end the day with his head on a pike
2) This is a mini NORMAL. There are no super awesome claims available that has ill chance of being countered. Since when do scum want to fakeclaim first, unless it's a VT? It's more plausable, nay likely, that scum would want to avoid a massclaim especially when they are the last one alive.

[Space Pope]

Not scum, so not self-hammering.

I'll get to work on that case.

Thoughts on my wagon- I'm not sure why Space Pope is defending me. Also, Shattered's support of my lynch is amazingly weak.

Quick question- Do i also post my town reads or do i keep that under wraps?

I found you bringing up that I missed you in my intro to D2 post as pro-town, since there should only be 1 scum who is running on self-preservation (and the outcome of including you would indicate you were worse than the others is not self-preservation).

What do you think of Agar?

[Space Pope]

With 8 alive, 5 want mass claim already so I say we go with it.

Since I already went, I pick Agar to go second.

[Space Pope]

Majority is enough to lynch but not to mass claim? If 3 players say they don't want to mass claim, would you stop mass claiming, ICE? Now that it is up to 6, would 2 people saying they don't, stop you from mass claiming?

[Space Pope]

What if they refuse to participate?

Why don't you answer the question?

[Space Pope]

It won't stop me from claiming, but it will damage the integrity of the claim.

It wouldn't really be a concern except for the fact that Ythan expressed that there was "no town reason" to mass claim yesterday, and may have similar feelings today.

Red has already stated that he would probably support a mass claim for today, so we really only need to hear from Ythan before continuing.

So, there is no reason to wait then? If Ythan says no then he would either no claim (and appear scummy for doing so) or do it because everyone else tells him too (then his claim is suspect). So either way, I see no reason why we should wait.

Yes, I support a mass claim. SP, keep your pants on. Didn't you already claim anyways?

Why wait when it is stagnating the game... Yes I did claim already, which is why I chose AGar to go next today.

[Space Pope]

^ ya so you can keep the game stagnating until Ythan comes up a profound and unheard of reasoning for not mass claiming...

[Space Pope]

Let's lynch Pope today,

I'll investigate AGar tonight and Exilon shoots Maemuki tonight

. That leaves what, Ythan? Scum can't night kill us both, and because of the doctor may not be able to kill either of us. Even if the absolute worst happens and we can't round scum down to the last suspect by tomorrow, there will be fewer unconfirmed players than we have mislynches to spare.

Scum, if you want to concede at this point, I wouldn't blame you.

Vote Space Pope

.

Sounds good to me. Though, I haven't seen a case yet (I'll expect one either before I'm lynched or in pregame), I'm still ok with my lynch as we will win anyways.

vote: Space Pope

[Space Pope]

Ok, that makes since. I thought y'all thought I was scum from trying to hurry along the mass claim. Especially from Exilon's post on it today.

And ya, I've played miller no cop as well.

So claims are doc, vig, cop, -miller vs 1 goon, 1 RB, 1 goon/GF... Not sure I buy that actually. Doc/Cop combo is a very strong pro town combo. Adding a miller does little to mitigate that. Then adding a vig, which is swingy but favors town is over powered when up against 1 RB and 1 GF (even if investigative, NK immune) let alone 1 RB, 2 goons. Ugh, torn between scum reads and setup speculation.

Going to stick with Mae/Agar scum over ICE.

[Space Pope]

Fucking told you fucking told you fucking told you. I was 100 percent right on Agar, on pappums, and I only didn't peg Moz as scum as I know that playstyle and wanted to see if it continued or was forced.

Fucking told you...

[Space Pope]

Though, I think people started seeing me as scummy for acting differently. I was trying to force a mass claim and I went first. The reason I did this was that I felt mass claim was inevitable, plus I figured scum did not want a mass claim. I figured scum would try to distract, to lessen to importance of, or in otherway try to stop a mass claim. I was right at least.

I'd say the game was ran very well, though I feel the number of PRs to be excessive for a mini normal (I feel mini theme should be less than half and mini normal about 3 to 4).

Agar, well done. You had numbers on your side, but you were up against a wall with all the PRs.