Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!

[CryMeARiver]

Role PM received. Thank you havingfitz!
Starting a reread. Question first: Was "banned loser" a mafia weak doctor (the different color is throwing me off)? Also, who is "banned loser"? There are no posts made under that name in the thread (When mafia dies, the most important thing to do is ISO them and look for connections - unless they did not post).
Thanks,
CMAR

The banned loser is me venting my frustration at the player formerly known as Magnetic. He was a weak doctor.

[CryMeARiver]

Oh, and in case my vote is somewhere, UNVOTE: Whomever

[CryMeARiver]

Wow, definitely forgot to bookmark this game -_- I'm very very sorry. I'll have a post up by either tonight or tomorrow.

*scrolls up*

Anyway, since nobody seems to be at L-"got home from school and he was lynched", I'll unvote
And put a

pressure vote

on vote:CryMeARiver.

So, you have no scumreads? Do you really think that one vote on me is really going to pressure me into rereading and making a post faster? *whew* I'm in real trouble now! You've gotten this far through the game (28 pages and D2 with 3 flips) and yet you find that no place else could better serve your vote than on me... -_-

Oh goodie, there's more! You actually felt the need to explain why your vote was a "pressure vote" so town didn't find you scummy for it.

*keeps reading*

I still would

very much

like to

lynch

Andre

w

...really? You would "very much" like to lynch him? And it's not like you just snuck that in there, hell, you fucking underlined it... *checks rules to make sure I can curse. we're clear. goes back to ranting* I mean, it's not like you voted me for "pressure" then said "oh, Andrew is scummy", you fucking said "I would like to LYNCH him" and, just in case no one saw it, felt the need to emphasize it by underlining it.

In other words

: I here what you're saying. Yet your actions say differently.

*keeps reading*

but

I don't think

that having my vote on him

will have much effect

on him, other than

contributing to his lynch.

...

This is how the game is played. You find someone scummy. You vote them. By voting them, you ARE FULLY AWARE that you are contributing to their lynch BECAUSE YOU FOUND THEM SCUMMY. The point of voting him would be to CONTRIBUTE TO HIS LYNCH. Why else would you fucking vote him?

*sighs, goes and gets something to eat and to drink, comes back hoping it might make a little sense, but doubting it*

Once it becomes

possible

, I'll switch it back, probably. For now, it's not doing anything where it's

sitting on

Andrew.

It's not just going to become fucking possible because everyone just goes "WELL HELL, I THINK ANDREW SHOULD BE THE LYNCH BECAUSE I FUCKING FEEL LIKE IT". No, it will become, as you say, "possible" when you do something, maybe ISO him and show the town WHY he should be the lynch. It shouldn't just be "sitting on him", you have to actually give valid reasons and stuff of why you vote him.

*goes back to reading, hoping it will end soon*

If I put it on CryMeARiver, that will, hopefully,

apply pressure to him

, and maybe get him to post more,

or whatever

.

Do you REALLY think that? REALLY? That I might come to the computer, see your one vote, and shit my pants and make sure the reread and my posting comes faster because of one vote? I hope not, or whatever...

*could it get much worse?*

The only downside is that I might awaken one day to find that he is lynched as a townie, and town has lost. I don't think that he is at that level yet, therefore, I'm going to put a vote on him.

Translation

: Hopefully town would be dumb enough to all drop their scumreads and all come put stupid "pressure votes" down all at the same time on CMAR and he will be quick hammered. I'm speculating as to what my buddies should join me in doing. Now I'm going refer to CMAR as a townie. Whoops! A scumslip! Now I'm going to speculate that town will lose if they lynch a townie for no reason. Now I'm going to confirm that I indeed don't think CMAR is scum by saying that he's not yet "at that level", but that I'm going to vote him anyway because I damn well please.

That. Was. Beautiful

*goes and checks vote count to make sure this vote won't be a quickhammer*

VOTE: BGGscum

[CryMeARiver]

Role PM received. Thank you havingfitz!
Starting a reread. Question first: Was "banned loser" a mafia weak doctor (the different color is throwing me off)? Also, who is "banned loser"? There are no posts made under that name in the thread (When mafia dies, the most important thing to do is ISO them and look for connections - unless they did not post).
Thanks,
CMAR

The banned loser is me venting my frustration at the player formerly known as Magnetic. He was a weak doctor.

Was he of the protown type?
Also why was he banned?

Yippee! A replacement and a wall of text

[CryMeARiver]

Damn, what an ass...
And thanks Max! That confused me with the different colors, I thought he was maf, but maf literally has NO reason to have a Weak Doc on they're team I don't think. And it wasn't the usual "red" of maf, so I wasn't sure.

[CryMeARiver]

So. What you haven't really mentioned(That I noticed) CryMeARiver, is that your vote of Bgg means you doubt me. In context, that would require you to decide that I'm 1)lying, and 2)almost definitely scum. Aside from the fact that you latched onto a number of things that are, at worst, null-tells, and not really scum-tells at all in your attempts to build a new case on Bgg, that is.

I dislike that the replacement of one of the more easily accepted FOS is starting to rebuild a case that they could EASILY have read back and see that it has, with good reason, been dropped.

I didn't read anything else, I was scrolling up to start my reread and I saw a vote on me and read it. I have no idea what your post refers to at this point

Also, to let it be known, I made my post well before I saw the replacement's wall of text.

[CryMeARiver]

So, Haylen...You think Bgg voting Andrew is opportunistic...but then the next line(and most of what you have said so far) shows you are suspicious of Andrew as well. Your choice of three players, all of whom want to see the other hang, is a pretty great bit of "safe" debate. After all, you aknowledge that you're going to be wrong, but ONE of them MUST be scum. I dislike this.

My list remains: Haylen, Andrew, CMAR. My vote isn't moving, but CMAR is making me a bit more certain about my mistrust of truant

@CMAR: So your read of Bgg was based on...? Because the posts you're quoting against him, lest I miss my guess, involve things both before, and after, it was sort of tentatively accepted that Bgg is clear. And my being unhappy with your reasoning has nothing to do with Haylen's post.

What the hell are you talking about? My read for Bgg was based on ONE POST. All of those quotes came from Post 686 in which he voted me. I saw that post as I was scrolling up. I had yet to reread ANYTHING but page 1. What "post

s

that I'm quoting against him" are you referring to?

Your guess was indeed wrong, all the quotes still came from the same post. Did you read what I posted or did you just outright buddy Bgg without merit?

I wasn't, and am still not as I have hardly made a dent in my reread, aware that Bgg was seen as clear in the least. Is he? And why?

[CryMeARiver]

Also, I supose I should clarify my stance: Finish reading. Then start judging. Especially mister "votes before reading". Srsly. THAT is anti-town.

He had one vote on him. I made sure it wasn't a hammer or "L"worthy vote. I did indeed find that post incredibly scummy, as I unshyly pointed out in the post you didn't care to read. I'm sorry, should I have random voted like you and most of the rest of the town did when I came in? No, I took what I saw and, not having read the thread yet, I voted for what I saw as scummy.

By the way, nice try saying I'm defensive. As I said at least twice in the post you didn't care to read, I don't give a flying fuck about his vote on me. It doesn't pressure me in the least. I'm not defensive about the vote on me, I'm offensive about the blatant scumminess in the post.

[CryMeARiver]

I'm not going to bother to say much more until others are in on it, or it's just going to turn into a rediculous, unproductive slap-fight. We've had enough of those as is.

... Then what the heck is the point of the forum in mafia at all? Why don't we just send people in PM's to the mod that we want lynched and skip the discussion part all together? You basically just said "I'm not going to respond to the points that you brought up and instead I'll wait for other people to hopefully come in and back me up." Those "slap-fights" are how we find scum.

[CryMeARiver]

I'm not going to bother to say much more until others are in on it, or it's just going to turn into a rediculous, unproductive slap-fight. We've had enough of those as is.

... Then what the heck is the point of the forum in mafia at all? Why don't we just send people in PM's to the mod that we want lynched and skip the discussion part all together? You basically just said "I'm not going to respond to the points that you brought up and instead I'll wait for other people to hopefully come in and back me up." Those "slap-fights" are how we find scum.

Fine. Your post explaining why you don't think you're being defensive is, itself, incredibly defensive. I find all of your arguments shallow, and it is COMPLETELY stupid to vote based on one single post, no matter how scummy that post might be ESPECIALLY without having read the game so far. It shows that you don't really care WHO gets lynched, or what the validity, and your "he wasn't close to lynch" argument is worthless. If you put a vote on someone, it's a sign you want them dead. Period, dot, end of sentence. That is the purpose of a vote. And if you can REALLY decide someone is scum based on one post, we may as WELL just throw out one pm to the mod. It's not like you actually NEED to scumhunt, is it?

Before I even read and respond to what you posted, I'd like to say that you waffled pretty quick. First you were set on not responding, then I called you out on it, so you shifted your opinion.

Now for a response:

1) It wasn't defensive: I was merely responding to your false accusation. If I didn't respond, or as you say "defend", myself, the town would have the false thought that you had proven your point correct that I was defensive when in fact I wasn't.

2) No, it isn't completely stupid. The vote was based off of a scummy post. No matter what context preceded it, the post standing alone was very scummy to me. I do care who gets lynched HENCE why I made sure it wasn't a hammer or even close to a hammer before I voted. If I didn't care who got lynched, I'd throw my vote on the largest bandwagon without reasoning. Instead, I placed my vote on someone who no one had been voting (except the person who replaced out) and I provided extensive reasoning. Also, how is me voting based on a scummy post any different than you putting forth an RVS vote? My vote was based on what I had read (like an RVS vote) and it managed to generate discussion (like an RVS vote).

3) "If you put a vote on someone, it's a sign that you want them dead." Hmmm, funny that you didn't call Bgg out on that when he voted me? Instead you chose to hardcore buddy Bgg when myself and Haylen put forth suspicion on him. Also, that's untrue. Change it to: "If you put a vote on someone, it's a sign that you find them scummy based on what you have seen up to this point, and therefore you are willing to show that by placing your vote on them." If what you had said was true, then anyone who unvotes is automatically scum because they are saying "I wanted you dead, but now I don't and instead I want you dead" which is waffling.

4) Scummy /=/ Scum : Bgg was scumMY because of that post, that doesn't necessarily automatically make him scum. Nowhere did I say he is automatically scum.

[CryMeARiver]

Oh,I'm basically waiting until the two replacements conclude with who is suspicious and why, before I start potentially questioning thier points and what-not.

At this point, BGG and S_C. However, I have yet to finish my reread and I have a Physics Lab to go do so you'll have to wait for my official "suspicions" until I do that. But based on just what I've seen, BGG and S_C.

[CryMeARiver]

Oh. So you don't think he's scum. But you voted for him. Contradictory at best.

And please, PLEASE finish your reread. Seriously. And you find it odd that I said "I wont" and you demanded that I do, and then I listened to you and did?

Not contradictory in the least. I can't know whether he is scum based on one scummy post unless a) he claims scum or b) he scumslips which he did neither of. Therefore, he's scummy. So I voted him. Which part are you not understanding?

Absolutely. It's ALWAYS more protown of a person to stick to their guns and do what THEY think is right rather than change their opinion based on someone else's opinion or demand. Always. Sometimes even if the entire town is demanding it. Unlike most people, I find it protown of a person to refuse to claim despite the entire town telling them to. 1) They're doing what they think is right and not waffling their opinion just because of everyone else. 2) Scum is far less likely to do something of that nature as they try to blend in by PLEASING the town rather than fighting the town because they're doing what they think is right.

[CryMeARiver]

So your version of 'town' is obstinant and self-serving? You can't demand something, then decide it's scummy when someone listens to you. That's just bad logic.

Absolutely not. You shouldn't have said you weren't going to respond in the first place. But if you had kept up with it because you felt it was in your best interest, then that's more protown than trying to please the town and waffling just to do so because that's something scum would do.

[CryMeARiver]

@ CMAR's 693: CMAR+5 I hate explicit pressure votes as much as anyone, but your argument here is just ridiculous. For starters, you've parsed every single phrase in the worst possible light, culminating in the absurd conspiracy argument that bgg is acting on a hope that would be dumb enough to all drop their scumreads and all come put stupid "pressure votes" down all at the same time on CMAR and he will be quick hammered"

-_-

I was making fun of the fact that he was actually speculating on that situation to seem more protown. Not actually saying that he really thought that it was possible that everyone would drop their reads and put down votes on me -_-

[CryMeARiver]

@ CMAR's 693: CMAR+5 I hate explicit pressure votes as much as anyone, but your argument here is just ridiculous. For starters, you've parsed every single phrase in the worst possible light, culminating in the absurd conspiracy argument that bgg is acting on a hope that would be dumb enough to all drop their scumreads and all come put stupid "pressure votes" down all at the same time on CMAR and he will be quick hammered"

-_-

I was making fun of the fact that he was actually speculating on that situation to seem more protown. Not actually saying that he really thought that it was possible that everyone would drop their reads and put down votes on me -_-

"Hopefully town would be dumb enough to all drop their scumreads and all come put stupid "pressure votes" down all at the same time on CMAR and he will be quick hammered. I'm speculating as to what my buddies should join me in doing" doesn't make sense if that's what you meant.

You're right, it doesn't sound that way the way I typed it. But it is indeed how my thought process went when I read it. My point was that the situation he proposed was impossible and the only reason someone would even speculate on such a situation would be to seem more protown.

[CryMeARiver]

@ CMAR's 693: CMAR+5 I hate explicit pressure votes as much as anyone, but your argument here is just ridiculous. For starters, you've parsed every single phrase in the worst possible light, culminating in the absurd conspiracy argument that bgg is acting on a hope that would be dumb enough to all drop their scumreads and all come put stupid "pressure votes" down all at the same time on CMAR and he will be quick hammered"

-_-

I was making fun of the fact that he was actually speculating on that situation to seem more protown. Not actually saying that he really thought that it was possible that everyone would drop their reads and put down votes on me -_-

"Hopefully town would be dumb enough to all drop their scumreads and all come put stupid "pressure votes" down all at the same time on CMAR and he will be quick hammered. I'm speculating as to what my buddies should join me in doing" doesn't make sense if that's what you meant.

You're right, it doesn't sound that way the way I typed it. But it is indeed how my thought process went when I read it. My point was that the situation he proposed was impossible and the only reason someone would even speculate on such a situation would be to seem more protown.

CMAR+7

I can't see

any

way that you would have typed what I quoted above, which so clearly indicates that you were accusing him of voting you as a scum ploy and of him making his BS scenario as a hint to scumbuddies, if you meant to simply be suggesting that he was being unrealistic.

You are right. I typed something I didn't think. Now go back and read my bgg case and see how it's not "ridiculous".

[CryMeARiver]

Yes, yes, I've put off my reread long enough -_- I've been focused on creating my open game (flavor, role PM's, getting a good player list) that I'm modding and things with my church more than this game and I'm sorry.

PREEDIT: Wow, there's more info on these first two pages alone than on an entire day in some games, I think I'll go ahead and post this because I abide by the fact that people generally don't read the post the longer it is.

S_C here doesn't necessarily think Reg is scum, but finds her actions scummy enough to put a vote on based on what she had read so far. Yet she criticized me for doing the same thing. That's off to me.

And while I'm not yet very sure about a regfan lynch, I think some pressure should be put in his direction.

Seriously? You yelled at me for like 2 pages about what I did, yet you did the same damn thing. -_-

In other news, out of curiosity, if I were to cop to being a Town Miller, what would general reaction be?

That is the absolute worst claim I've ever seen. Instead of outright claiming miller, you are testing the waters to see if you'll be scummy for it?

Also, lurking is not scummy. It doesn't help the town, therefore it's antitown. Scummy is something scum would do more than town would. Town is just as likely to lurk as scum, probably more, as scum's own goal is to appear protown, therefore they're less likely to lurk, but that part is just my opinion.
Also, you just said that you think lurking is scummy? But your last post you said that volk was right and it was just antitown? This is poor waffling.

S_C: Post examples where you've asked that scummy-as-hell miller question before please.

Tclar is very protown
Subgenius is very protown: I didn't even this of this example of S_C hypocrisy
Truant is super straightforward here: I love it. I don't really like the lack of reasoning behind his foses, but I do love his straightforwardness.

I also notice that his own answers are slightly suspect, since he has an "I'm so town, lookit me scumhunt", and this has rarely boded particularly good. It screams of either 'newbie town' or 'nervous scum' though given how he feels about rvs he must be at least a little bit experienced.

I'm not sure what this even means... -_- Scumhunting is either newb town or nervous scum? Also, I don't like how you did that. You kinda just threw it out there "he must be a little bit experienced [so there is no way he's newb town, so he must be nervous scum]."

Though I do like the 2nd big paragraph by S_C here. Good explanation for his vote on Reg, even if I don't agree with it.

Tclwren here: I agree with your first statement absolutely. Your 2nd one is ridiculous. The miller question is not related to THIS game in the least. Also, claiming that he's reaction testing is terrible. At the least he is acting as if he were reaction testing town to appear more protown herself (which CAN actually have protown motives: Town, especially PRtown, wants to appear more town to gain trust from the town, though scum has the same motive in order to gain the town's trust and appear to blend with the town) and at most (though a bit of a stretch) testing the waters to whether or not she should claim miller herself. The question directed at volkan is pretty easily connected the "at most" situation as volkan had the same thought as me and does not want her to know what town thinks before committing herself to a claim.

Regfan's response is quite protown and explains his reasons very well. RQS generally does yield more results than RVS. The fact that Regfan is very committed to his stance on RVS is quite protown and unwavering. When someone is firm in their stance on something, even despite the entire town disagreeing, that is protown.

[CryMeARiver]

That is the absolute worst claim I've ever seen. Instead of outright claiming miller, you are testing the waters to see if you'll be scummy for it?

If you believe this is the claim that people keep mentioning, you are mistaken.

I posted that as I read. If you kept reading what I said, I clearly realized it wasn't a claim later in the post.

[CryMeARiver]

That is the absolute worst claim I've ever seen. Instead of outright claiming miller, you are testing the waters to see if you'll be scummy for it?

If you believe this is the claim that people keep mentioning, you are mistaken.

I posted that as I read. If you kept reading what I said, I clearly realized it wasn't a claim later in the post.

Alright, well I look forward to hearing your opinion on the reason why nobody else is voting for bgg when you reach it in your catch up.

I find it strange that you feel compelled to proclaim how townie your slot is during your catchup. Also, why are you addressing dead players (tclawren)?

I don't even remember who my slot is... -_- And when I'm doing a reread, I do it as if it was happening, so I address all players.

[CryMeARiver]

I don't even remember who my slot is... -_- And when I'm doing a reread, I do it as if it was happening, so I address all players.

Well, atm you're voting for someone who several people consider to be at least provisionally clear without showing any interest in why other people think he's cleared. At your current reread pace, you might be caught up in a month. To a certain extent, I feel like you're dragging your feet in an effort to avoid posting any content that's meaningful to the current game. Your stream of conscience posting style seems to lend itself better to creating an appearance of activity than actually presenting useful cases.

And still, it blows my mind that you haven't inquired more deeply about S_C's claim, which has been mentioned several times. The fact that you display no interest in this leads me to think you really don't give a damn about who you're voting for since you're clearly not interested enough in seeing new evidence to either ask where this claim happened or to read more than 2 pages of the thread in the week or so since you've joined the game. This has scum written all over it. A town player would have a keen interest in assessing a claim that may or may not clear some players.

I have an absolute interest in his claim. I see no reason to inquire about it as I'm sure I will see it in my reread. It shall not take a month, it just takes time that I don't currently have with college at my doorstep.

[CryMeARiver]

@ CMAR

Well, you've done 2 pages in a week. At your current rate, you'll be caught up in about 15 weeks. In the mean time, your vote is on a player that is possibly cleared, and your second fos is the person who cleared him. You have shown very little initiative in finding new reads or explaining why anybody should change their minds on bgg's alignment, since you haven't addressed the reason why people think he's town. At this point, your vote is in a useless spot, and you're doing nothing to make it less useless. Since you've replaced in, you have done little aside from fos'ing two players that have almost zero chance of being lynched today, posted a response to the first two pages without saying how it informs your view of the game as it currently stands, and provided excuses for why you haven't been able to form proper reads in a timely manner.

Also, you seem to think that your refusal to please other players is a town tell, but I think it's more symptomatic of either a lack of effort or a scum player going out of his way to appear independent and stubborn in the belief that it makes him look like a townie. Unfortunately for you, it doesn't. Speaking for myself, I can only view stubbornness as a town tell if the player in question has convinced me that he is acting out of a sincere belief that his obstinate behavior is in the town's best interest. You have not done this, leading me to think that your stubbornness, combined with your argument that this stubbornness should be perceived as a town tell, is an act rather than an example of a confidently independent town player.

I don't think you quite understand.

1) It's not going to take me 15 fucking weeks to reread. I'm pretty sure you're intelligent enough to gather that.
2) I absolutely trust the town that Bg (and apparently S_C) are clear for some reason. However, I am voting based on what I personally know and because I have yet to reread, I have no reason to take your word that andrew or whomever is scum because I can't know.
3) I am gathering votes on the premise that I have not reread yet and somehow that is scummy. I am town, I just haven't had the time to reread. That's not scummy, it's lurking, and it's certainly antitown, but it's life. I'm not trying to be stubborn, but I have more important things right now.
4) Stubbornness is not a towntell and the "towntell" you are referring to me saying I never said in the context of referring to myself.

I said

other people

were protown because they stuck to what they thought rather than changing their opinion to please the town,

I said

other people

were scummy because they switched from what they thought to what the town said in order to please the town,

but I never said

that

I

was protown because I am sticking to my guns and keeping my vote on Bg. The only reason my vote is still there is because I have yet to finish my reread and I certainly find it rash and stupid to vote me for that sole reason.
5) If I become the lynch today without being able to claim or reread, that is a poor choice by the town and quite dumb. Voting me because I lack the info you do and I am voting based off the info that I do have is terrible scumhunting, in fact, it's lack of scumhunting.

[CryMeARiver]

1)I'm not seeing a lot of progress. All I can say is that I hope it doesn't take 15 weeks.
2)

Unfortunately, your vote still counts whether or not you've read enough to make it an informed vote. Clearly you realize that you're missing important information, so I have to wonder why you're still willing to cast a vote without educating yourself about all of the players. The best explanation I can think of is that you don't care who gets lynched (as long as it's town), which would be the mafia stance.

3)I don't find the lurking necessarily scummy by itself, but I would describe the posts I've seen from you so far as somewhat empty and without much bearing on the game. If you say you don't have much time, I have to believe that for now, but you have had time to make SOME posts, and those posts have not instilled me with much confidence in your alignment. At best you're a town player who is not spending his limited game time wisely. At worst, you're a scum player who is consciously dragging his feet.
4)You're right, I took your ISO out of context, apologies.

5)Look, nobody decides how you execute your re-read besides you. So far, you've addressed the first two pages, and kept up with a discussion that you started from building a case from a single post from the last page when you subbed in. IMO, neither of these have been especially productive. You've had time to do at least a few things, but the things you have chosen have not been productive, and you have to expect to be judged on that. It's awfully convenient for you to argue that you should be allowed to live through the day because you haven't had time to catch up. Also, I hope realize by now that people are finding you suspicious because you're

voting

despite admitting that you don't have the necessary information to make a good vote.

Wow. The bold parts are strikingly correct. I'll tell you what, two things:

1) I'll

Unvote: Bg

You are absolutely correct that I don't have enough information to make a good vote. I trust the town that Bg is nearly clear and the fact that I am leaving my vote on Bg is indeed a mafia stance.

2) If I cannot commit a thorough reread before the deadline, I will replace out. The only thing I would have accomplished would be bringing unnecessary suspicion to a town slot. It really has been tough for me. I visited Notre Dame's campus, I've had multiple soccer games/practices, plenty of homework (IB program sucks), and a TB test, but mafia should be a commitment. If I can't fully commit to the game, I shouldn't be playing in it and I'm sorry. I apologize to the town for my negligence of the game and I promise that if I can't put time towards it in the next two days, I will replace out.

[CryMeARiver]

1)I'm not seeing a lot of progress. All I can say is that I hope it doesn't take 15 weeks.
2)

Unfortunately, your vote still counts whether or not you've read enough to make it an informed vote. Clearly you realize that you're missing important information, so I have to wonder why you're still willing to cast a vote without educating yourself about all of the players. The best explanation I can think of is that you don't care who gets lynched (as long as it's town), which would be the mafia stance.

3)I don't find the lurking necessarily scummy by itself, but I would describe the posts I've seen from you so far as somewhat empty and without much bearing on the game. If you say you don't have much time, I have to believe that for now, but you have had time to make SOME posts, and those posts have not instilled me with much confidence in your alignment. At best you're a town player who is not spending his limited game time wisely. At worst, you're a scum player who is consciously dragging his feet.
4)You're right, I took your ISO out of context, apologies.

5)Look, nobody decides how you execute your re-read besides you. So far, you've addressed the first two pages, and kept up with a discussion that you started from building a case from a single post from the last page when you subbed in. IMO, neither of these have been especially productive. You've had time to do at least a few things, but the things you have chosen have not been productive, and you have to expect to be judged on that. It's awfully convenient for you to argue that you should be allowed to live through the day because you haven't had time to catch up. Also, I hope realize by now that people are finding you suspicious because you're

voting

despite admitting that you don't have the necessary information to make a good vote.

Wow. The bold parts are strikingly correct. I'll tell you what, two things:

1) I'll

Unvote: Bg

You are absolutely correct that I don't have enough information to make a good vote. I trust the town that Bg is nearly clear and the fact that I am leaving my vote on Bg is indeed a mafia stance.

2) If I cannot commit a thorough reread before the deadline, I will replace out. The only thing I would have accomplished would be bringing unnecessary suspicion to a town slot. It really has been tough for me. I visited Notre Dame's campus, I've had multiple soccer games/practices, plenty of homework (IB program sucks), and a TB test, but mafia should be a commitment. If I can't fully commit to the game, I shouldn't be playing in it and I'm sorry. I apologize to the town for my negligence of the game and I promise that if I can't put time towards it in the next two days, I will replace out.

1)

fos: CMAR

Changing your mind is scummy.
2) This reads as "I'm seriously town. I wouldn't be playing if I wasn't. Also, pitty me, but don't do ANYTHING until the 6th, which is, conveniently, the end of the day, letting me live through to D3. And, I'm town"


Lucky for you, I'd LIKE to see you make it to D3, since I'm still reasonably sure Andrew is SK, but I also hold out the possibility that YOU are SK, which means if I DO end up contributing to you swinging, I wont actually be sad.


preview edit: Haylen, you have yet to adress the all important: Do you think I'm scum? Because, as I've stated, Bgg is town. So, since you still would like to believe he is scum. Knowing this is true, you've chosen to decide that 1: Andrew is right, and I'm lying, and 2: He's also scum, and needs to swing. These are in fairly strong contradiction to each other, so you're going to have to pick one of the two opinions, and stick to it.

Quick check in here before the NCAA Championship (while simultaneously reading my 30 pages on the Palestinian Israeli Wars -_-)
1) That is my scumtell, not yours. That makes you a hypocrite. But you are absolutely right, but I need to as I was wrong and subg was right.
2) I'm sorry if it reads that way to you, it's not the way it was intended.
3) Not sure which is scummier at this point, Haylen's slot or Andrew's (or either...), but if you're "still sure" that Andrew is SK, shouldn't you want to eliminate a night kill by killing him? Shouldn't that change your order of people you want to see swing to Andrew first or am I missing something (like you wanting to keep a potential NK around an extra night)?

[CryMeARiver]

Durp. Sure Yura/Haylen is SK. Dunno why I said Andrew. Yura's slot was the one I had eyes on. I dislike the(weak) implication of the last statement, and you yourself said that NO MATTER WHAT changing your mind is scummy. I'm not the hypocrit, because I'm not the one who said it, and then DID IT. That makes you the hypocrit. I don't think changing your mind is scummy. But you do, and then you DID IT. This is a problem, as you did something you consider scummy.

Yes I did. Because I felt it necessary to admit I was wrong. I'm not sure if you noticed, but up until then, I stuck with what I thought was right. Then subg spelled out for me how I was wrong, therefore I changed MY opinion. I didn't have the same opinion, but do what the town wanted to please them. But you're right, if someone else did what I just did, I probably would find it a bit scummy.

[CryMeARiver]

Quite a softclaim indeed. Here comes a big post to end the day with a vote.

For the record, I don't know why we're assuming SK. Vig is a viable option.

[CryMeARiver]

Sweet, votes on me. I'd ask for cases (which no one provided) but at this point, I'd rather find someone scummy than defend myself.

[CryMeARiver]

Also, I'd like to see Volkan's latest points chart. Until then, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.

[CryMeARiver]

I could give you a recap of my reread, but half of you wouldn't read it and it would be ridiculous so I'd rather just post what I think. Sorry that I've had so many real life commitments, I might as well be trying to play from jail or a coffin -_-

Scum (SK + maf) is in: Volkan, Haylen, Andrew, and Bgg

Reg, S_C (though I don't agree with him on near everything), and Max are the most protown in this game. I am confident that they are all town.

CKD is always hard to read and subgenius, though he comes across as intelligent and working towards the good of the town, could very well be very good scum.

Volkan doesn't have a single person as protown in his points. No one is below 50. He started D1 by being against S_C, yet it almost seems as if he was trying to stay out of the fight between S_C and Reg. He votes S_C for "weak arguments", yet she was firm in her argument that not RVSing was antitown and she didn't "dance around the issue of why non-RVSers are antitown", she flat out said why she thought it. But he finds S_C scummy for this and the miller claim question, but then he COMPLETELY drops the case based on 2 posts by noob Yura. Also, his vote was on Yura/Haylen all D2 from the beginning of D2. It seems almost as if he planned to bus her at night personally. He didn't even switch his vote over to Bgg when she was CLEARLY scummy. It's hard to explain why I think Volkan is scum. It's not gut, I see it in his posts, I just can't really put it to words -_-

Haylen has played quite well, yet her replacee was terrible newb scum. She tried to please the town in everything she did. Yet, Haylen's role can be tested on a town PR therefore we don't lynch her yet. One S_C claims her breadcrumbed role, we can tell Haylen to redirect her to someone based on what S_C is (investigative: someone scummy, protective: someone town, yada yada yada). Yes, I do realize she is likely investigative due to her backing up of Bgg. Also, tclar clearly got killed by the SK for a reason. While mafia can get away with targetting PR's, SK's literally almost have to kill people who suspect them or they risk being lynched the next day with no chance of winning. Mafia can risk losing one member. I think Haylen is the SK. If not, she is scum. I highly doubt that slot is a redirector.

Andrew. Andrew, andrew, andrew. You contribute to Magnetic's lynch with little reasoning (it was a reasonable lynch) and no contribution, you then say you find tclar to be "off". Then you vote S_C because he voted the scummiest people. He says A LOT that means absolutely nothing and has a poor poor case on S_C. He doesn't mention Volkan except to call him a bully (Volkan buddy). He literally does things with very little reasoning or explaining and constantly explains why he is not at the computer which really gets annoying . The definition of lurk doesn't matter and what S_C said wasn't deflecting. If anything, you are active lurking (even though you're not active). You are saying things and getting away from replacement and prods, yet what you say has no meaning. Active lurking IS NOT reading and not posting. He has called my slot, Reg, Sub, CKD, S_C and BGG scum ALL ON D2. Everyone but Volkan and Yura. He flat out defends Yura. He argues with Volkan, yet doesn't find him suspicious. THIS IS A KICKER: He targets S_C for "picking on" Yura as an easy lynch target, THEN he fos's Sub for "coaching Yura". Nowhere does he FoS Yura though. He is clearly backtracking and backing Yura. His posts are choppy, hold no sense in them, and are scummy. CKD calls him out on finding CKD scummy, but not voting him. So he comes up with a lame excuse to no longer find S_C (who he practically found scummy the entire game) scummy, and vote CKD. This is a prime example of aiming to please town. THEN he continues to find S_C scummy. His unvote and vote on CKD were meant nothing as he didn't change his opinion on them, just his vote to please CKD. But my favorite is yet to come. He drops ALL OF HIS CASES and votes me. Never did he previously suspect my slot. Survival /=/ protown. Pushing legit cases on other people while defending points brought up against you = protown. You have failed to do this. Also, your claim is entirely BS and came so awkwardly it's scummy.

I have expressed previous suspicion of Bgg. Others have as well. No reason to explain this. I'm not discrediting whatever S_C says, but I still find Bgg incredibly scummy. But we're not lynching him for obvious reasons.

As you find it hard to believe a doctor and one-shot redirector are in the same game, I doubt that a fairly experienced player would fakeclaim a role that none of us have heard of before, in a mini-normal game.

I JUST fake claimed miller-watcher in a game as scum and claimed that I had been redirected -_- Too bad I still got Killed and lost

Anyway, I'd be happy with either a Volkan lynch or an Andrew lynch. Both are scummy.

Vote: Andrew

I'll be online til around 10 EST if I need claim.

[CryMeARiver]

Also, I looked into BW analysis, but it's practically useless since Magnetic's lynch was necessary. Though I guarantee scum hid on that bandwagon still.

[CryMeARiver]

Disclaimer: It is not necessarily MYLO. I could easily see only 2 scum since they get an extra NK through the SK. But we assume the worst situation of course.

1) We of course lynch today. We would have a chance to lynch mafia during the day. If we leave the kill up to mafia at night, there is absolutely no chance (besides the small chance that Haylen redirected the kill to scum which is only possible if a) Haylen is town b) Haylen chose scum at night c) Haylen chose the scum that made the NK and d) Haylen redirected that scumkill onto another scum - highly unlikely). Chance scum dies > No chance scum dies. Even if we mislynch, we have a chance to make it through the night with Haylen's redirect or any other PR hindering the scum kill.

2) S_C got an innocent on Bgg. While Bgg is likely town (despite my dislike of her scummy play), there is a chance that he is investigation immune and we cannot regard him as a clear in situations like this when town could possibly lose depending on the lynch. Now of course we listen to his reads and he is not the lynch for today, but he is not clear.

3) Despite her scumminess, Haylen should not be the lynch today unless we all come to an agreement. In reality, if she is town and we mislynch, she is possibly our only hope of making it through the night. If possible, we should find scum elsewhere.

4)

With reads and whatnot added to that she should be able to get it to around a 30-50% success rate which is certaintly worth use of it considering there's intense pressure towards her seemingly upcoming lynch.

This is false. All of the factors above would have to be resolved in order for her to succeed. The chances of targeting scum (especially when they knew of the re-director and likely made the most town above them make the kill) were slim. I am glad she saved it, assuming she is town.

Bandwagon analysis should come tomorrow as well as read of page 41.

[CryMeARiver]

Posting from a phone:

No lynch is a bad option. Town controlling who dies is always better than mafia controlling who dies and EVEN IF WE MISLYNCH we still have at least one chance of making it to tomorrow.

[CryMeARiver]

For those who are interested. Since Day 3 has started, CMAR has made 30 posts on the forum, of which, two were in this thread. Of those two, there was no original content. CMAR is hard core lurking, and it isn't because he hasn't had time to check the forums or write a post. He is actively avoiding this game.

That I am. I've been modding my game and failed to give this game any time. I sent the mod my replace out last night. So I leave you with an apology and a claim.

I am a one shot Jailkeeper, unused. I bread crumbed it like 3 or 4 times between today and yesterday. Do not NL today as we have (if Haylen isn't lying) 2 chances of avoiding kill today.

Breadcrumbs

I could give you a recap of my reread, but half of you wouldn't read it and it would be ridiculous so I'd rather just post what I think. Sorry that I've had so many real life commitments,

I might as well be trying to play from jail

or a coffin -_-

Tried to breadcrumb here, but I failed by capitalizing "Too", but my capitalization of "Killed" should show that.

I

J

UST fake claimed miller-watcher in a game as scum and claimed that I had been redirected -_- Too bad I still got

K

illed and lost

Even if we mislynch, we have a chance to make it through the night with Haylen's redirect

or any other PR hindering the scum kill.

EVEN IF WE MISLYNCH we still have

at least one chance of making it to tomorrow.

I realize I've been playing terrible this game. Absolutely horrid. I haven't put any time into it and that's a fail. Volkan is still maf and he should be the lynch for today. I also dislike that he's been pushing a nolynch today (makes me scared as to what mafia could be holding [extra kill, etc...]).

Good luck and sorry.

[CryMeARiver]

EBWOP: avoiding kill tonight.

[CryMeARiver]

I get this twangy feeling in my gut telling me not to believe you. How could 2 one shot roles in one game be balanced? It looks so badly like you're trying to sponge off my role by claiming a one shot. Not sure why he claimed before L-1 either and with ages to go until deadline.

I thought the same thing after your claim, hence why I still thought you scum/SK after you claimed. Then I realized that another one shot role kind of proves my role theme-wise to an extent.

Of course, CMAR's breadcrumbs are pretty vague.

Breadcrumbs are meant to be vague. If they're not, the mafia kills you...

For those questioning why I claimed now, I felt it pretty obvious. I've played rather badly in this game as I haven't given it a lot of time so I figured I might as well make up for it to my replacement by letting him know of my breadcrumbs to help cement the fact that I'm town rather than having him lynched outright for my bad play. I have made a deal with the mod that I will play until I find my own replacement.

[CryMeARiver]

If we're going to mass-claim, should I breadcrumb now?

Okay, I understand that you're practically clear barring a GF and you're not the lynch for today, but it's statements like these that make your play scummy.