Avoiding rvs is complete lack of progress, and so...
Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!
-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
1. A vaguely relavent question. Mountain GMT - 7
2. Metagaming is at BEST as illogical as RVS, if not a LOT less so.
3. Irrelavent. Everyone is going to say "Town" to keep suspicion off of themselves. In keeping with this, I shall say Mafia.
4. How often are you likely to post?
5. I disagree with the concept of anybody 'leading' the town, since that's kind of a scum-tell."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Yes. That is also an adequate description of RVS.
3 is, simply put, a GREAT excuse for Wine in Front of Me, and not REALLY able to be anything but muddying the waters.
I forgot to answer 4. I'll post fairly often. I'm on pretty well every day for at least 4 or 5 hours sitting here and hitting f5, heh.
I didn't say following was a scum-tell, but leading the town certainly is. Making a case =/= leading."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I have played in two games on this site. In one of them, mafia was caught first day thanks to RV reactions. Also, the arguments and discussions of RV don't ONLY apply day 1. Who dies on night 1 can also be used to build a case.
And no, making a case isn't leading. Although, to be honest, you've taken on the role of 'leading the town' and are also asking some seriously leading questions at this point, MOST of which accomplish NOTHING. So far, we've learned very little, since any answer given can be taken either way. And, WIFOM arguments put me ill at ease."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
As for WIFOM, I think it's severely over and misused. <---- Explain this more please.
And yes, they do harm us. Questions that muddy the water, and can be used as either proof positive or negative waste time, and can easily be used to form cases either way.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=16073 Scum dead D1"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Honestly, I ALWAYS consider refusing to RVS to be at least a little scummy. Not enough to suspect someone on it's own, but still a point to look back at in the future."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I should say, refusing to partake of rvs is a little scummy because it prevents us from getting a read on that person. "I refuse to partake of RVS" is a nice way of saying "lurking time!""But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Following this...Regfan wrote:
If you don't think they're relevant wouldn't you just ignore them if someone were to bring them up for a case, infact wouldn't they allow misleading information for someone to attempt to abuse thus allowing you to find a scum-tell on someone that does so?Surpise_Carcinogen: And yes, they do harm us. Questions that muddy the water, and can be used as either proof positive or negative waste time, and can easily be used to form cases either way.Vote:Regfan
You're insisting that your questions(like the metagaming probe, the query about whether you like to lead or follow or whether you like to be mafia and scum) are actually useful. They aren't. They serve no purpose but to waste time, and can't really serve a future purpose except to obsfucate the situation. Forcing the idea that it's actually helping doesn't really give me good feelings, and leading the town under the guise of a questionaire adds to enough that I'm willing to put a vote behind it.
@Vollkan: In order
1: I suppose I can understand the idea of someone being against RV for the sake of finding it pointless, but at the same time, refusing to partake still leaves us out an early read of that player.
2: Refusing to RVS is a span of time a person is lurking. Lurking a LOT is a scum-tell, or at least anti-town. We can't ignore a gap in playtime for a reason like 'I don't find it productive'. Lurking is still lurking at that stage.
3: I agree. I misspoke. Anti-town is a much more reasonable way of putting it as opposed to scum-tell.
In closing, non-rvsers aren't scummy. They ARE anti-town, though.
mafia edit @Subgenious: I'm more inclined to find a person doing little or nothing during D1 to be Lurking. Which is, depending on your personal method of gaguing, either a scum-tell or anti-town. I'm inclined to consider lurking for all or most of D1 to be a scum-tell. But the day is still young.
In other news, out of curiosity, if I were to cop to being a Town Miller, what would general reaction be?"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Once again,
1. Then that person and myself will disagree. See pt.3
2. I mean that you need to look at refusing to RV as a section of time a person was refusing to play. For example: You are not RVing, but you're still investigating. IE: not lurking. The first guy who said he wasn't going to RV hasn't said anything else since, but it's still early. If he continues to say nothing for a few more days, it becomes lurking.
3. Under the misconception that it was a universally accepted fact that RVS is beneficial to town, I made the decision that refusing to do so is a scum-tell. Your argument has swayed my understanding. I consider refusing to do it to be anti-town, as it is still my opinion that you can get good information from RV(see pt.1), as it has been my experience that SOMETHING good comes of RVS. It is a slightly moot point at this stage though, as I think we've skipped entirely through RVS phase.
And, I'd like to point out that I've always gotten different reactions when I've asked that question. This is one of the more interesting ones. I'm not going to claim miller. If I WERE a miller, I would have done so with my first post. I'm more curious as to how people would react. And, by the by, "you'll find out my reaction" is a reaction. The purpose of the hypothetical question is to gain information, and at worst it allows you to probe out some idea of a person's play-style."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Forgot to add this to the end of my last post: Hypothetical question rescinded, since I already got two answers, and anything else is going to be null for information"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I was hoping to gain information. At this stage of the game, I can't honestly have any goal more specific then "Figure out who is scum." And I've gotten any number of reactions, ranging from a breakdown of possible realities(I am mason, I'm town lieing about mason, I'm scum lying about mason) and why nobodies reaction really matters in that case, to being ignored. And while I'm not yet very sure about a regfan lynch, I think some pressure should be put in his direction. What he's doing is something that I would call bad-play, and I'm interested to try and get information from him to find out if he's scum or not."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I've concluded that two players have a playstyle more cautious then most I've played with in my one other game on mafiascum, and in my experiences playing on other forums.subgenius wrote:I fail to see how your miller question is any more useful than regfan's list. What have you concluded the two responses you received?
Reverse the question: What can we learn from Regfan's questions? Some are practical. What timezone do you live in? That's a reasonable and relavent question, but has very, very little application for scumhunting. Do you like being scum, or town? Irrelavent BECAUSE it cannot be applied in any way towards case-building. His metagaming question is dubious at best. Metagaming can tell you, potentially, if someone is playing differently then usual, but it's always going to be debatable evidence. My experience has been that cases using metagaming as any sort of major component will meander around for a little bit, while RARELY actually going far enough to lynch, and even MORE rarely, actually catching scum. I'm willing to reevaluate my experience if given a few cases where metagaming was used successfully, since I haven't done much reading, and I'm used to a very different playstyle then MS.net uses, but the idea that "he's playing a different kind of game then he did when he was town, and this is suspicious" is weird to me."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Woops, accidentally hit submit. continuing.
I also notice that his own answers are slightly suspect, since he has an "I'm so town, lookit me scumhunt", and this has rarely boded particularly good. It screams of either 'newbie town' or 'nervous scum' though given how he feels about rvs he must be at least a little bit experienced.
How often do you post is, again, slightly relavent, while also giving plenty of an out for lurkers. If regfan is scum, his buddies now have an easy way to point and go "I'm not lurking, see, I said I'd only be posting X amount." and beside that, it once again is not going to give out any information that is in any way usable. And the 'leader/follower' question is silly. Town shouldn't 'follow' anything but evidence, and as such the closest thing to a 'leader' is going to be someone who lays out a good, coherent and worthwhile case. The results of this question are, once again, non-condusive to scum-hunting.
And no, regfan, I'm not voting with you because I disagree with the method you're using. I'm doing it because you've yet to explain to me what your questions mean. I notice that, in spite of ME asking several times, all you've done is defend the CONCEPT of what you're doing. RQS can be incredibly useful, and I've seen it succeed in the past. But, the questions THEMSELVES needed to have a purpose, and you've as of yet to tell me how you intend to use ANY of the answers in a town-productive way. And no, I can't really show you a game where RVS has, provably and immediately, led to a scum-lynch. I can show you plenty of games, though, where RVS has been used on D2 or D3(or, scum doing stupid things under the GUISE of RVS early game, which can't be done if there is no rvs) to conclude or finish proving a case. On the other hand, your statement has gone from "RVS is generally unproductive" to "RVS HAS NEVER EVER WORKED EVER!" Also, the rvs debate is slightly moot at this point as I've explained my reasoning. Refusing to partake and then doing nothing at all = antitown. Refusing to partake and doing something else(ie rqs) = productive. Asking questions that are at best irrelavent and at worst WIFOM/leading, and then refusing to offer up any reasoning behind how you intend to use the questions = antitown at best."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
So, your questions don't help then. The 1st one I've already admitted is slightly useful. The rest cannot conceivably be used in a case. Scum and town can BOTH be flaky or confident. And just because someone used those methods(Tunnel, Lurk, OMGUS, AtE) doesn't mean they're going to again. And, it doesn't mean that if they do or don't, they're the same alignment as they were last time. And your explanation for a slow reply to the 'why' of your questions, combined with the fact that you intend me to believe that those questions are useful are starting to skew my hand down the slider past 'anti-town'
and, c) So, in two years of playing you're not used to open, unknown setup? I've honestly in a little better then half a year of playing, never have played a 'known setup' game, with the exception of the really gimmiky ones(Choose Your Own Role Mafia for example)."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
The bolded statement got my attention. Looking back at my OWN plays, I am inclined to agree.Regfan wrote:Again, never have I said any of the points would be used in a case, just to help me gather a feel of the players and to attain some basic gut reads. The idea of 'Just because seomeone used those methods doesn't mean they will do it again' really shows how little attention you paid to my posts because I explicitly said that although it doesn't mean they're going to play that way this game it gives us some basis to work from. Again, what's the point of asking questions for reactions if you're going to explain what reactions you're looking for? In regards to C, this is my second open setup, I normally stick to closed setups.
So lets just get this right:
- I dislike RVS, you say refraining from using RVS is a scumtell.
- I bring up questions, you attempt to discredit the questions before an explanation was given towards them and before they had a chance to work at all, you state those questions are a scumtell.
- Someone points out that disliking and refraining from using the RVS is a null-tell, you instantly turn the previous scum-tell on me towards 'anti-town' behavior even though you understand the RVS vs RQS debate.
- I explain the reasoning behind the questions, you state that you don't think Meta-exists or is relevant thus the questions are still a scum-tell
Have I got that right? Because from what I'm reading you're attempting to change your reasoning behind the vote whenever it suits it,you seem to have your tunnel goggles on.unvote. Watching the progression of my own arguments, I have been being terrible, for reasons that you guys have been swift to point out. I am, for the moment, satisfied with the answers given by Regfan. If he had any other questions I failed to answer though, point them out. I might have missed them scanning through the flurry of events that occured while I was away. I didn't think we'd hit page 4 so fast in a 3 week long game. I'm kinda used to D1 being over by page 6 or 7(D1 usually being 72 or 96 hours long at most) so I'm still getting used to the pacing here at MS.net
My eyes are now on the two most recent votes on me. People who voted for me first, I accept your reasoning, so understand that my dislike of Bgg and Yura's votes is not by any means OMGUS. I was tunneling, as stated earlier, and am going to let me eyes wander a little more, and stop focusing so much on Regfan. As for why Bgg and Yura or my new persons of interest is because bgg decided I hadn't posted "in the longest time" when at the time of bgg's post(4:50 pm server time) since 8:30 am. A whole 8 hours and 20 minutes. Why, that's almost as long as a SHIFT AT A FULL TIME JOB(Plus or minus commute). And Yura is on the block for so suddenly and rediculously bandwagoning. And thusly,vote:Yura-chi. Bgg is promising more logical reasons, and I'll decide if I think he's scum-hunting or not when the time comes. Yura, though, has nothing more then "Oh, yeah, he has been quiet...*L-3*". A frightening sort of bandwagoning, and enough to get my vote on D1"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Sorry, I totally lied. There's no understanding Magnetic's vote. Except that it was kinda funny. So in that, I suppose I still understand it."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Because I said that I understood the vote for the two people who voted me before you and bgg did. Then I read back and remembered that Magnetic's vote was what I understand to be a joke-rvs vote, based on the discussion of rvs votes at the time, and that his vote DIDN'T actually make sense to me, outside of it being funny."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
He's been 'not posting' for about 9 or 10 hours. That's not exactly a drought. It's not suspicious to go less then 12 hours without posting. Otherwise, I have a list of about 6 or 7 people who are also suspicious. I mean, for example, that yura-chi guy went, like, 13 or 14 hours before making his first post!"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Actually, I was speaking directly to Yura, and not trying to distance myself. I was attempting to point out that he's a hypocrit.pappums rat wrote:i think yura-chi is trolling this game tbh. however, notice what i have bolded in sc's last post:
this seems a bit like he may be distancing himself from the guy who just happened to share the same qt as him. i dont see why he couldnt just say 'yura-chi'.Surprise_Carcinogen wrote:He's been 'not posting' for about 9 or 10 hours. That's not exactly a drought. It's not suspicious to go less then 12 hours without posting. Otherwise, I have a list of about 6 or 7 people who are also suspicious. I mean, for example,that yura-chi guywent, like, 13 or 14 hours before making his first post!
On the matter of the incredibly stupid claim by Magnetic...wow...Well, it's obviously good policy to LAL, but at the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing Yura go as well. It's a fairly certain matter that both are acting against the town's interests in all cases, thus far at least. The difference is, I think the odds are pretty good that Magnetic is trolling, but I'm more inclined to think that Yura is actually newbie scum acting up. I'd rather kill scum then town, even if it's bastard town."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Properly, I think it MORE LIKELY that Magnetic is trolling then for it to be Yura.
Also, could I get avotecountplease"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I'm not saying leave him alive, I was considering the idea of leaving him alive till D2, and see where things go from there. On the other hand, considering things more carefully, he is either a) scum, or b) trolling. The purpose to leave him alive was the possibility of night-actions clearing or condemning him. But even if we prove with 100% certainly he's town, he's still not good to keep around. Yura on the other hand, there is the slim possibility is actually just really, really bad town. I don't consider it a very GOOD possibility, but I'm not eliminating it. Yura is being useless. Magnetic is being worse and actually holding the town back a little. So I'm going tounvoteand say I'm okay voting Magnetic. I'm going to try and do my personal best to drag D1 out as long as possible, so I'm not actually GOING to vote for him, because I don't want ANYBODY L-2 right now.
I propose we follow Magnetic's advice. I don't think we can really build a better case against him then we already have. What ELSE do we know, aside from that Magnetic has been extraordinariliy detrimental towards town?"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I am major suspicious of Bgg, to be honest. On the one hand, he has a very good point about prolonging the day, though he's not the first to make it.
On the other hand, he made a very poor attempt at bandwagoning, now that I'm confident that's what it was. He promised more logical reasons soon, and so I reserved specific judgement on his vote until he did. Now that he didn't, I think it pretty clearly was an attempt at a wagon. His defense of Bgg is also suspect, though mostly because I've never actually heard of 'strong doctor'(I have heard of, and seen, the use of the 'weak' prefix before, which I've seen on cops as well as doctors to mean that if they try and target scum, they die.) It's possible I misunderstand, and when Bgg said "strong doctor" and just mean "normal doc", but even in that case, there's no benefit to a doctor fake-claiming a role identical to his own, but slightly worse.
And, Max, the reason we want to stretch the day as long as possible is because on N1, a townie will almost certainly die. We need to learn as much information as we possibly can today, related to things ASIDE from Magnetic. For the moment, Magnetic, Yura, and Bgg are on my list, in that order. Maxous's misunderstanding that "The only rason to extend the day would be for the possibility of the town changing their minds" seems kind of off, but I think it's just someone not quite understanding, and not something much less innocent.
mafia edit: Regfan, a couple quick questions about your points:
The more interactions we have, the more we can learn from whoever the mafia select as their NK, so I disagree that this is a disadvantage.
[quote="Regfan]The possibilty that Magnetic and other players interactions with Magnetic will give us a better clue of their allignment, however people will just yell WIFOM whenever any of this is brought up.[/quote]
I don't understand this at all. Clarify how you figure that people will call WIFOM, apparently in your opinion regardless of what manner of information comes up?
And honestly, I don't think we should find a new lynch target. Not for today, anyway. I think we can spend a few more days on D1 to figure out who our D2 lynch should be, and then reevaluate on the other side of the first NK to see if our information lines up, but at the same time, I cannot see fit to bring both Magnetic, and Yura along with us. I'm honestly fine with either being the eventual D1 lynch."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Quick reply while at work:
1) Bgg, when asked "why don't you change your vote" "I wont change my vote" isn't a real answer
and
2) a 'mafia edit' is when you are about to post, and then hit preview and see stuff has been said since the last time you posted, so you show that you are adding based on new stuff since you started typing a thought. When I'm at home I'll hunt down the wiki page on it."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I'm a little confused by whether Bgg is scum, or just an idiot. I'm inclined to call scum, just because I've seen him play smarter then this before. Then again, I hesitate to use meta at all, even if it is just to establish competence.
@Truant: It's actually more of the incompetent scum thing. "I'm not doing anything" is more the sort of thing that would be blurted out by someone who is, in fact, doing something, but they're just bad at HIDING that they're doing something."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
We are clearly not going anywhere more then we already have until we deal with one very important problem...
Wrong again, bggbgg1996 wrote:the lynch is in no waydecidedfor today.vote:Magnetic
Either he is scum, or he is a troll. If troll, his answers wont matter, cause he's going to bs us. If scum, his answers are either going to make us think he's scum more, which doesn't matter, or less, which would be a problem, and so are at BEST non-productive. And, we're clearly not making any progress on leads outside of lynching Magnetic. So, let's remove the distraction, and hopefully N2 will give us some info, and on D2 we can get to some serious scum-hunting"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I like truant's reasoning, especially as the possibility of dropping the SK would bring us back to only one town death a night. I already am suspicious enough of yura to have had my vote on her for a while D1, and the 'sk' read makes the 'threat' statement make even more sense then it did before.vote:Yura
@Subgenious: I disagree with your thoughts on Bgg. The probable explanation is that Bgg was trying to justify completely irrational actions on the part of someone who was later banned for trolling, and stretched a little bit into the realm of the improbable."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
It probably does what the wiki said it did, but at this point, it's entirely possible, given that we have two sources of murder, apparently, that it might be what he said it did. It's really tough to say though, since he was, in fact, a troll, and he could just as easily have been fucking with us."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
...Yura, did you just decide someone was scum for siding with you? I'm becoming more confident in my Yura vote, but I'm concerned as well for the lack of substantial content from CKD. Admittedly our D1 was rather short, but even so almost everyone else made some sort of real attempt at scumhunt."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
No, I don't. Given the way the magnetic situation turned out, as well as some re-reading of ISOs, I don't think you're suspicious enough to warrant a vote.
The only thing that still puts me ill at ease is that you voted for lurking after 8 and a half hours of no posting. I still would like justification for this."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I'm more suspicious because of his justification(or what I understood of the post, anyway) for his vote. He voted for CKD because CKD defended him. It's like the craziest, weirdest version of 'OMGUS' that I've ever heard. Looking at an ISO of Yura, I can't honestly say ANY of her posts do any better then null, and many are worse."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
So...your reasoning breaks down into "Hammering magnetic was scummy" and "Immediately chasing the best lead is scummy." Forgetting that I didn't nearly make the first vote of D2, I'm still confident in Yura as scum, and wanted to make sure she knew. I don't think by any means we should lynch her right away, as a short D1 was bad enough, thanks to the 'banned loser' as the vote-counts say. I also would very much like for you to explain the bolded statement a little more, since it's a vague way of saying absolutely nothing without evidence to back it up.andrew94 wrote:my two cents: stabs are sk (always?) , im surprised tclawren didnt hammer , andi find surprise disturbingand subgenius pro town.
firstly, subgenius'es opinion on bgg, i find it to be correct.
then, about surprise, he was the one to hammer, and then the next day immedtaily votes for the next best suspect- yuri,. to me scums do this so people forget what happened the previous days/
vote surprise"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Side note, everybody look at Andrew's ISO. Five posts, 2 votes, no substance(I'm tempted to say 4 posts, since one is just him accusing yura of being a man). And aside from that, I dislike his refusal to read 'walls' since it pretty well excludes him from any real argument or well-made case, since they are all going to pretty well come in wall form. There is simply too little to go on for me to have an idea if he's scum yet or not, but what there is definitely points to anti-town behavior, at best, and scum at worst."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
A quick review of ISOs puts lowest post count at Andrew, CKD, and Yura, in that order, and lack of content is about the same(Yura and CKD are pretty close together though)
This isn't to say that lurking or useless posting is a HUGE draw to attention at this point, but I'd like these people to at least start justifying themselves, if only to force them to post and give us something to get a read with."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I'm thinking the same, Max. I've seen 'shot' represent Mafia, and Vig, and I've seen 'stab' represent SK and Mafia. I've never seen someone use two different terms for two different mafia-groups though, so I'm leaning away from that idea. Andrew, a proper response to the simple stupidity of your post is incoming."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Two major things. First, you consider it suspect to go after the most suspicious person. This is, as far as I can tell, completely stupid. Other people, feel free to correct me, but generally if someone is the most suspicious...you vote for them. Read my prior reply to you, where I mention not wanting her dead yet, but she's still suspect number 1, and thus, still my favorite for a lynch.andrew94 wrote:@surprise, im saying that you are attacking the most' suspicious' person- yura, in order to deflect attention.
then you draw attention to my 5 lowly posts, which again- deflecting attention. maybe you would deem to look at my other games and see how many posts i have in them.
my vote is justified
As for deflecting...you realize you just said "Hey, you're using the fact that I didn't post much in an attempt to deflect your own suspicious nature", and that is, itself, a complete deflection. Answer to your tiny and useless post-count, hell, answer ANY question posed to you with a real answer, and maybe you can start deciding what a deflection is and isn't. Until then, yes, I think I was justified in hammering Magnetic. Letting a cheater and a troll wander around would have only hurt us D1. Yes, I want to see Yura hang, eventually, for the moment. No, it is not reasonable to consider me voting Yura a deflection to distract people from my hammer."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Why do you consider Vig so unlikely? I consider it the MOST likely of scenarios, to be honest. 2/2/9 is no good, as it once again allows one mafia group to die off first night(D1 lynch, other mafia N1 kill).
But, if there is an SK, and it WAS Yura, things would make a lot more sense. With the lense of there possibly being an SK, things like the 'threat' comment, and Yura's general ambivalence towards being consdiered scum could also be newb-sk cockiness.
That said, I think the options, in order of likely hood are: vig, sk, and 2 mafia, with the last extra unlikely. 2/2/9 isn't a good set up, and 3/3/7 is also no good, as it might leave town extinct too early in the game.
also, @andrew: You are completely misusing 'strawmanning', for one. I'm not deflecting anything at all. I hammered magnetic. It was a good call. What am I deflecting? You, on the other hand, are trying your damndest to make a completely stupid accusation stick, and with ever-thinning logical fallacies. What about me is a 'suspicious nature'(This also means something different then you meant, but I understand what you mean at least), and what questions would you like answered, if you figure I'm avoiding something."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Well, what would you like me to refer to about day 1? It was dominated by someone whose sole purpose was to mislead and confuse us. If there's something from D1 you'd like me to answer for, go ahead and ask. But so far, you're not making a solid accusation, just "Ignoring day1, this is scummy", not "You did this this and this on D1, this is scummy". one of those two statements is scumhunting. one is a crappy attempt at a pointless case. You be the judge.
tl;dr if you think I'm ignoring something, tell me what it is."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I have my own reasons to disbelieve the random babling of magnetic.
And Vollkan, I started off agreeing with you(A longer day really wouldn't have helped. We were going to just keep ending up being baited or confused by magnetic, and not really said anything of import) But you are contradicting yourself now. After all, if scum would have had information(they wouldn't have) wouldn't we? There's no solid reason for having ended the day that early except for impatience, but there was no reason to extend it either. We weren't gaining anything either way, except waiting three weeks for what would undoubtedly have been pointless nonsense"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Bgg didn't write that last bit, I did. And I think we may actually be agreeing right now. It is, at least, my position, that the gains and risks were equally small and unlikely, and so extending the day or not extending it were merely a matter of patience and impatience."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I can neither confirm nor deny my identity at this stage. I just have seen far more small games like this have vig then I have seen them have SK, and even FEWER have a second mafia group. And, at this point, we can only work statistics. There is no chance of actually KNOWING anything, yet."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Vollkan. Take a step back, for your own sake. I had to back in D1 when I was tunneling on Reg without realizing it. You can't take apart everything a person says without eventually coming up with whatever it was you wanted to find anyway"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I can't honestly defend his question. It was awful. I also don't have any basis for thinking your tunneling aside from the fact that you've taken apart/quoted every single post he has made since. I just don't see Bgg as being scummy."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Yes. I did state his question is indefensible. And while yes, he is acting scummy, I definitely think he is town."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
To be fair, statistically he has also identified at least two scum in the pile.subgenius wrote:
I think you'd better narrow this down, seeing as you've implicated 70 percent of the town.bgg1996 wrote: 2. The reason I am not naming said individuals, is because I wasn't saying "I suspect these people, the people who did this.", I was saying "Doing this is a scummy thing to do". Does that make sense to you?"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
But, since that conversation has slowed down, a different direction is needed. As CKD has yet to reply, and I think I've made my case against Yura pretty clear, I'm tempted to look back to andrew and his stretching for a lynch, but am otherwise going to need to do a re-read to see what I might have missed."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Agreed. As the hammer-drop, you are preaching to the choir. The trouble is, the statement that prolonging the day might have been helpful is just as valid as the statement that it would have been harmful. It`s not a productive conversation."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
He hasn't actually done anything pro town, so much as he has played almost exactly the way I used to when I was first starting to play mafia, false scum-tells and all, I haven't seen anything majorly wrong come from him, just a lot of small things, so I am disinclined to comdemn him just yet. I think he, at worst, reads null to me, but I am more inclined to read 'misguided town' in his actions. Things like 'are you vig' aren't something even the worst of scum would outright ask, after all.
As to the second point, what conclusions do you draw from him changing his mind?
Also, seriously people, I can go and take a look at the list of people who had voted for Magnetic when he was lynched. Why are you so hard-on to see Bgg specifically mention each one of them?"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I've been trying to figure out why this statement bothered me. It's the bit I bolded. I dislike the fact that you're talking with a specific confidence that he IS going to flip shortly.subgenius wrote:
At this point, I would say Truant and yura-chi.maxous wrote:If you had to pick out one or two who would you pick?Depending on bgg1996's flip, S_C.
That aside, I've made the only case in Bggs defence that I think there is. I don't find him scummy because I have seen less-then-adept town including myself play exactly this way, but I haven't seen scum behave quite so textbook scummy. It's much, much more likely in my mind that's he's just a townie who made a mistake and can't do anything to remedy it without looking worse. "Woops, made a mistake, sorry" at this point would look just as bad against him as anything else."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
A quick look over things and Yura's current post continues a rather disturbing trend of contributing nothing, and riding nearly every single bandwagon, or potential bandwagon so far this game. She has rarely missed even one. This is terrible practice, and not at all in the town's favor, possibly bordering on a definitive scumtell. The constant wagoning would combine with the lack of original evidence to keep Yura in my top spot in spite of andrew climbing quickly closer."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
I just reread Andrew(doesn't take long) and I am seriously worried about him. I'm getting close to considering a policy vote just for his excessive lurking if Yura didn't seem more directly detrimental to town. Notice that he's entirely dropped off the face of the world after I more directly confront him about his skimpy premise. It's only been almost a full day, but his posting history makes it doubtful he'll say anything. He posted 3 times in D1, and only 5 after, in a game that has been running for 7 days total."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Most of them. I wish I still had my first game of mafia handy. Admittedly it was a first, and I know this isn't Bgg's first, but I got myself speed-lynched day 3 as a townie behaving the exact same way he is now. I simply don't see a mafia making this MANY mistakes, I should say. Slip once or twice, yeah, but even under pressure I consider it more likely a desperate townie fumbling for survival then I do a scum fumbling for his disguise.
And, before you guys go pinning us together, remember that if we all just agreed on one person who defended themselves alone, cases would be pretty shitty 90% of the time. I mean, in this case yes, I specifically believe Bgg to be scum, but there are times when a player will disagree just to play Black Hat.
I think Bgg was uncertain of Magnetic, since his plays were so completely off the wall. I honestly didn't know if he was scum or town when I hammered, but I did know that he'd do us an enormous amount of harm to keep him around, even as a townie.
As for CKD and Regfan, I can't say much of CKD. He gave himself a 59% chance(his own words) that Pappums was scum(wrong 0-1). His stupid BS about pressure is tough to read, but I'm inclined to just think it's childishness. He also hasn't been posting much, though his posts have a tiny bit more content then other people's. Both of them seemed to still think that Magnetic was on the level, but confused/stupid, or at least still credible ENOUGH to have reasoning. I doubt BOTH of them were, though. I'm more inclined to find CKD scummy, of the two, though I wouldn't toss out the idea of a team between them.
mafia edit: At least we can agree on something, Sub. And you can keep your vote on Bgg. Your case is a solid one, and the only thing I have to argue it is meta(which is thin at best) but it's what's staying my hand. I've seen town act the way he is, but not scum. I'm also curious as to which comment made Max rethink, but only curious. I don't really think the information is that important."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Oh hey, really? Calling me out on hammering Magnetic? You are getting worse and worse by the second, Andrew. And, apparently, it's a scumtell to START THE DAY WITH A LEAD. This is utter horseshit, of course. And I'm not attempting to discredit your case. You don't have a case. I'm attempting to prove you're scum. If you DID have a case, I'd probably attempt to disprove it, not discredit it.
Posting little because you can't, or because you're trying to keep out of people's sight? BecauseIcouldn't post often, I'd make DAMN sure there was some sort of meaningful content in my posts. Bgg is very right. You need to start giving opinions on more then one or two things of your choice, that suit you personally.
((Also, notice that he's not on much, but appears the moment I mention his lack of posting ))
You have yet to point out what I'm dodging. Unless you mean me hunting Yura is dodging. If that's it then I'm changing my vote right now. Hell, either way I'm happy with the idea of a Yura-Andrew team.
mafia edit:
Try...absolutely everything that has gone on this game so far that you've ignored. From the RQS thing early on that you haven't said a thing about, on to the magnetic thing which you almost entirely ignored, or maybe any of the debates so far that you've said nothing about. Your 'case' against me is the most content we've gotten from you all game, and I'll be damned if it's of any quality at all.andrew wrote:on which particular things"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Hmm, fair enough. I didn't really think it needed adressing, since I had given my justification afterwards, but if it helps: What is everybodies opinion on the D1 lynch?
On the flip side, what is everyone's opinion on Andrew's tunnel visioning and lack of content? Just so nobody call call 'omgus' on me later, I'd like to know a broader group of opinions."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
That logic is almost reasonable. Lynching town is never a good idea on the principle that they aren't going to contribute much even if they are town. On the other hand, his refusal to point out his opinions can be a good indication that he ISN'T town."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Alright, that's itunvote. Vote: Andrew94
I gave you a good, long list of things you could give some opinion or another about, and then you come in here and strawman(correct usage. Answer a different, but superficially similar question to the one asked) your way into self-righteousness. And I always keep an eye on lurkers, they just happen to get my attention when they start flimsy, pointless cases, against me or not. And you haven't SAID you refuse to post your opinions. You just HAVE failed to post your opinions."But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
Alright, since you are stupid on TOP of being scum...
Here. Right here. I gave you a list of possible things you might have had opinions about, but which you said nothing to. You have done nothing but occasionally take a pot shot at me. Even with Bgg coming under heavy fire, you have been suspiciously quiet. You could give us on opinion on that, for example! What do you think about Bgg's various accusations? What do you think about CKD's lurking, or Regfan being all shepherd-ie. SAY SOMETHING THAT MATTERS.Surprise_Carcinogen wrote: mafia edit:
Try...absolutely everything that has gone on this game so far that you've ignored. From the RQS thing early on that you haven't said a thing about, on to the magnetic thing which you almost entirely ignored, or maybe any of the debates so far that you've said nothing about. Your 'case' against me is the most content we've gotten from you all game, and I'll be damned if it's of any quality at all.andrew wrote:on which particular things"But he will not be drinking delicious juice, oh no. He will be choking down a world of hot piss and it will serve him right for liking all those dumbass movies unironically." - Dave Strider-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011
-
-
Surprise_Carcinogen Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 259
- Joined: January 27, 2011