Mini 1175: Iowa Mafia (Game Over!)

[mikemike778]

Vote Peaf

Avatar reasons

[mikemike778]

lolwut @ avatar vote

There's really no thing as a random vote IMO - if it were "random" you'd be using something akin to random.org, and if that's how you guys scumhunt here then I anticipate this being my last game. And if you're not using a randomizer, then I can assume you have a motive for your vote, whatever it may be. Sure, get into shittons of WIFOM trying to find a motive, so there's not much of a point in doing only that.

Now I know I'm new here, but monk explicitly saying "you're voting me since I'm new" is really really dumb. Pulling the newbie card is never good for yourself or for the game.

Also, that was legitimate excitement, it's always fun joining a new community. >_>

and what the hell are hydras

Yep this is true so I'll help you along with my motives as there were two:

1. You don't have a Avatar, voting for you because of this may possibly encourage you to get one which will make my enjoyment of the game marginally more than might otherwise be the case.

Bit more importantly.

2. Early votes in the game are generally to gauge a reaction to move the game out of RVS - as a new player to the site, you are a pretty good option for this to see if you panic over collecting a vote early doors which can be a scum-sign.

[mikemike778]

The point of RVs is to apply pressure and see how people react to it. Your first two votes (the Greymarble one especially) were wastes. They applied zero pressure on the person that you voted because of the extreme haste in which you changed your vote.

Agreed 100% which make me wonder why your first post was ...

VOTE: hiplop

rv

Why feel the need to point out this was a random vote ? Hardly going to help your vote apply pressure is it ?

[mikemike778]

The point of the council is that if the three (5) of us do agree the town should probably be doing whatever it is we agree on.
This makes sense to me as we are a pretty skilled / experienced group.
Of course, this idea only works until one of us gets NKed, which does seem pretty likely.
And there's no guarantee we'll even end up agreeing.
I'll do some reading tomorrow.

Well if the three of you don't agree then presumably you aren't voting the same and if you do agree on a scum read then there's a good chance you would vote for that read anyway so seems pretty pointless to me.

But whatever, you can vote for whoever you like as long as you don't assume everyone will follow.

the 3 of you could be the 3 scum in the game.

Hello scumtell. Nobody knows how many scum there are, and it shouldn't be assumed, unless you are one.
Unvote
Vote: Peaf

No. No, no, no, no, no. This is not a scumtell and to suggest so is scummy. How many mini normals on this site have you seen with a different number of scum than three? Three is the norm here. It should be assumed when playing.

This is Peaf's first mini normal game on the site - heck its his first game on the site, why would he assume the scum team has 3 players ? I disagree it does look pretty scummy to me.

[mikemike778]

Mikemike - has posted more mafia theory than any clear scumhunting he even goes as far to suspect peaf for what I saw as him following GM's lead on the 3 scum thing though he's only posted 4 times not enough to go on.

??? - When have I posted about theory. The only players in the game who know how big the scum team is, are the scum team therefore anyone posting anything suggesting they know the size of the scum team is scummy. Fact. Especially for a newbie player. If Peaf flips scums I'd be pretty wary of Earworm as well for his shock horror that anyone could suggest it was scummy.

However Akira is looking pretty awkward at the moment -

And I don't like people telling me what to do, so unless I'm in the vote block, I disapprove.
I don't know if I want to be in it though, I don't like those reads.

Surely if you are in the vote block, people are telling you what to do.

You know, I think the best thing to do about this council is wait for D2 and then start it. We need town players on it, not experienced players, IMO. We need to form a council which hopefully everyone will agree to. But that's quite impossible today.

I thought you dissapoved of the council or are you suggesting you should be a member. Either way you seem pretty uncomfortable with the whole thing which suggests scum self-consciousness. If you are a townie what are you worried about ? Its not like anyone else is showing signs of following them blindly anyway. And in agreement with everyone else who has posted - 8 pages in you need a better use of your vote than 'no avatar'.

[mikemike778]

And on that note

UNVOTE: Unvote
VOTE: Akira

[mikemike778]

You know, I think the best thing to do about this council is wait for D2 and then start it. We need town players on it, not experienced players, IMO. We need to form a council which hopefully everyone will agree to. But that's quite impossible today.

Makes sense. Since townies outnumber scum, voting on a council after some more information is available will make it more likely to be scum free.

there are advantages to a scum being in a council. It's probably best that there is actually a scum in a council

The main advantage is that the council control the scum as his vote is forced to be that of the council's. That way he can't do whaever he likes with his vote and bus or other scum tactics

And the disadvantage being he/she can potentially manipulate the council into voting the way he wants them to which is a bad thing for town. Like I said just forget about the council thing, they can vote for whoever they want but they aren't going to be able to get away with 'because its the council vote' as justification for how they vote.

Mikemike - has posted more mafia theory than any clear scumhunting he even goes as far to suspect peaf for what I saw as him following GM's lead on the 3 scum thing though he's only posted 4 times not enough to go on.

and then with your next post.

mikemike - town

I actually think you are probably town and will buy your claim for now but your posts and reads just seem erratic. I don't agree with your first paragraph above but assuming you actually thought that how did it translate into a town read ?

[mikemike778]

Monk has pretty much claimed Mason (188) ... given that he's about as indecisive as it gets, I don't see any way he would do this if he was scum one week through the first day just seems way out of character.

Grey - why are you voting Monk when he reads pretty town to you ? Are you really going to follow FD blindly when you don't know their alignment ?

Monk reads pretty town to me (llamarble) in general just his ISO 17 is bad.

[mikemike778]

welcome Empking

[mikemike778]

Regarding the Hiplop/TS 'bussing', I don't think so. It all seemed a bit free and loose. Maybe I over-estimate them but if they were scum and going to bus, I'd expect something a little more structured.

Zach - why do you feel better about Akira, still don't like the way he reacted to the council - all seemed a bit scummy to me and I'm keeping my vote there for now. Although he has a point here ...

I've got slight town for now. I'm still not sure what to think of his first post and all the QT stuff, but his few recent posts strike me as town reasoning.
You know, usually town players don't forget their questions, which makes me wonder why you didn't remind me of this. Could this be considered a slight scumtell?

I find players wriggling out of questions a strong tell so normally don't let anyone get away with avoidance. Suggests he (Monk) wasn't interested in the answer and therefore posting for the sake of it which looks ropey. Nontheless I still think his claim puts him town.

Akira/FD/Bgg, can you explain why your vote is still on Monk ? What do you think of his claim. To me, I don't see any possibility of Monk getting lynched today so looks to me like you are just hiding away avoiding getting on any meaningful wagon.

[mikemike778]

Mikemike-I point out things of no real importance UNDER THE RADAR PLZ Scumtell

Lol, you mean things like pointing out Monk's Mason claim foiling your attempts to mislynch him ? Sorry about that one. Kinda struggling to see how everyone missed his soft claim ... surely people with a vote on him would

actually read the posts

of their number 1 suspect.

Nontheless, I still think Akira looks the best option for today's lynch.

[mikemike778]

I post info when i have info. Usually i can find stuff quickly, but this game im just not doing well. Plus the whole council thing kind of makes whatever points i make, not mean anything. Im opposed to it for that reason.

Why does the council thing make any points you make not mean anything ? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Are you guys still suspecting me because of my avatar vote?

No

That softclaim really isn't something you'd notice unless you were actually looking for power tells. I read through the statement thinking nothing more of it than the fact that it was a strange thing to say.

Find that pretty difficult to believe. I can buy people just missing it I suppose (although would be nice to think the town are actually reading what their suspects are posting) but to read it, think its strange and not pick it up as a mason claim just seems weird. Maybe Masons are a lot less common here - over in Battrick where I came from they are in pretty much every game.

[mikemike778]

I post info when i have info. Usually i can find stuff quickly, but this game im just not doing well. Plus the whole council thing kind of makes whatever points i make, not mean anything. Im opposed to it for that reason.

Just saw this in mikemike's last post, seems like a poor excuse for not being active and an even poorer one for not liking the council, which also stems back into his whole reasoning for not posting much. As well as just mindly sheeping onto Archaist who to me is a townie. VOTE: hiplop

Im posting lots. I just honestly have very little info atm. This game is difficult.

Posting lots without actually posting much is a sign of a scum player trying to look like they are contributing. Whats with all the sheeping anyway? - not sure why Arch is being wagoned I've not seen him as particularly scummy. Hip would probably be second pick at the moment. Still like an answer to the question of why the players (bgg, grey, akira, FD) who voted Monk didn't question his claim. Not going to let this slip easily as it must have looked a bit odd if nothing else but no-one called him out on it.

Actually Bgg looks the worst from this as he voted immediately after Monk's post. Which looks like he read Monk's post , quoted it but still didn't pick up or question the claim which makes me think

he's just taken what he wanted to see from the post

rather than reading it properly. OK I've promoted him, my scum rankings are currently:

1. Akira
2. Bgg
3. Hip
4. FD

[mikemike778]

Peaf - He hasn't buddied at all with anyone and has been sufficiently scumhunting recently.

Not sure on your definition of 'recently' but he's not posted anything at all since tuesday and is up for replacement.

[mikemike778]

Nothing like a good reaction to a bit of pressure eh Bgg ? and that's nothing like ... etc

[mikemike778]

DAMN GUYS LET ME POST

I still have that slight townread on hiplop, but I see the bussing you're talking about.

Zach is over-defending himself though. I'm trying to understand his stance right now on hiplop. You say you're willing to lynch him, but at the same time it looks like you've got a problem with the wagon on him.

I'm more comfortable with a Zach lynch (if he isn't teamed up with hiplop), but I'd like to hear hiplop's reaction to all this.
VOTE: hiplop

HOW IS THIS GUY STILL ALIVE?!?

This post is terrible. Lets go through this.

1. slight town read on hiplop
2. Zach is overdefending
3. comfortable with a zach lynch
4. vote hiplop

WTF?

This makes no sense.

Fucking hello? The case is based on the fact that they're scumbuddies. Is there much of a difference if I vote for hiplop over Zach? I'm going to place my vote where it counts. And I like the idea of pressuring hiplop.

I'm with Ear on this one ... On Day 1 with 12 players too pick from, voting for a player you have a town tell just sounds daft - sounds like you are getting your excuses out if he flips town.

Way too early to be figuring out and using scum teams over your individual reads imo.

If anyone sounds like they are bussing its FD and Zach.

However after agreeing with Ear above - his vote on Arch looks pretty bad. Putting him at L1 without announcing it after this post looks as scummy as anything so far in the game. FD looks pretty bad on the whole Arch thing as well.

If you're going to put me to L-1 please give me a chance to claim before the hammer.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Earworm

[mikemike778]

If anyone sounds like they are bussing its FD and Zach.

not really

threatening to replace out is not a viable scum tactic; even with FD :/

Dunno, it all seems a bit contrived really.

Don't really trust my bussing radar much though so prefer to go with who I think is scum on an individual level and at the moment Ear and Akira are top of the pile. With Bgg third on the list - his reaction to my pressure on him looked very jumpy to me making me think my logic there might not be far off. Ear's L1 vote just looks too scummy though and looks like he was hoping to push a lynch through before a claim so I'm sticking with him but would be OK voting for any of these three to get a lynch.

Not sure about FD. I actually think his council stuff at the beginning was pretty pro-town (although I guess scum could've planned it beforehand) and helped give us more to go on with scum hunting but the rest of his play isn't looking very pro-town to me.

How likely do you think an earworm lynch is today?

Not very. Seen wagons build up pretty quickly before though and there's still a week to the deadline though.

Still not getting much of a scumread of Hip - going to have to ISO him in the next day or so.

[mikemike778]

Catch up time ... apologies for the lack of activity peeps. Right got a few pages to trawl through.

MikeMike's vote switch in his ISO 15 looks out of place with his stated suspicions of Akira. What gets even more bizarre is the fact that he agrees with Earworm on a point he makes about Akira, and then votes for Earworm anyway.

Explain why it looks out of place please. I have been suspicious of Akira all game that doesn't mean I can't vote for anyone else - fact is the way Earworm handled the L1 business just read scum to me. Are you expecting me to tunnel Akira all game regardless of any other reads ?

And re your second point, Scum try and look town. Just because someone posts something that I agree with does not in any way mean they are not scum and to suggest I should give them a clear town-pass because of it is somewhere between weird and gullible.

@ mikemike -
Your Earworm vote is worthless. Put it somewhere productive.

Happy with a lynch on Earworm, Akira or Bgg. Therefore

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Akira

First, we don't need your cooperation. This lynch is going to happen at some point, with or without your help. As we have already stated, we have a scumread on you. If you don't want to bus your buddy and instead want to further confirm yourself as scum, that's perfectly fine with us. Second, we have stated we will answer your questions shortly-. Your cheeky, scummy "answer now or else" response isn't helping you at all.

What a load of crap - evading answering questions = scum

So far you've have attempted to get 2 masons lynched, been consistently anti-town and now you apparently have a town read on Akira but are electing not to tell us why despite the fact there's a good chance he'll be lynched. Re-thinking my scum list actually as FD really needs to be up there but probably too late in the day for a wagon.

[mikemike778]

Let's see if we can agree on something. You've said several times that mikemike is scum. If you actually believe that, then I assume you must also agree that it's in the town's interest to force mikemike to stake out his position on the lynch one way or another.

My position has been pretty clear, I've said for a while now I wanted Ear, Akira or Bgg lynched today. Therefore I was obviously against the Hip and Twisted wagons and for the Akira wagon. I've always been of the 'vote for your number 1 target until you need to compromise to avoid a no-lynch' opinion hence why my vote was on Ear.

[mikemike778]

Nobody unvote mikemike yet, there are some things I want to ask him.

Well ask me then.

First, I'd like Final Destination to tell all of us why he thinks akira is town, and why he thinks mikemike is scum. This is not irrelevant information to the town, because it deals with two very possible lynch candidates. Final Destination seems to believe that he can pick one person who

he

wants lynched and give a detailed read only on that one person. If he is scum, then he knows the flip, and can tailor his read accordingly. We are only a couple days from deadline now, and if FD refuses to stake out his position on akira and mikemike, then I think we should wagon him until he cooperates.

Pretty insane how FD is getting away with blatant anti-town play. Agree 100% with this ... he needs a wagon. If he can't give a reason why Akira is town then its probably because he's scum and knows the alignments and looking for townpoints claiming town on someone he knows will flip town. Probably to offset him attempting to lynch 2 masons and a third town in me. If that is true, its going to mess up my reads somewhat as I have a definite scum read on Akira still.

Anyways to get him to speak initially ...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: FD

Whether scum or not, it is

stunning

how quickly mikemike responded to this thread after the whole town wagoned him. I hope we can continue to use this enormous collective power to make individuals do what this town needs them to do in order to have a comfortable winning position.

Not really had time to do much more than skim read the thread in the last few days due to work. Planned to catch up at the weekend so yeah the town wagon worked in accelerating that.

[mikemike778]

I believe that FD has been doing nothing protown, and somehow,

whenever he suggests a wagon, two or three people jump along instantaneously

, all unvoting as soon as they claim, the claims being Mason, Mason, and VT, and he's only been getting away with it because he's bats**t insane, which is not a tell.
UNVOTE: Mikemike
VOTE: Final Destination

Early on he seemed to convince people he knew what he was doing so attracted sheepers, I probably fell into the trap of trusting him to an extent early on as well as his council thing did seem pro-town if only to guage reactions if nothing else.

One thing is pretty much clear anyway, if he is scum then Akira must be town, the way the game has gone so far I don't see any way he puts a target on his head again with that one.

also, I like how you try to make your town list look big by slapping in the 2 confirmed townies and Obvious McTown Hiplop

With the 4th on the list being his OMGUS-backwards read on FD (do we have a term for that ?)

No. No, no, no, no, no.

FD is playing arguably anti-town yes. But there is no way he has a scum role. He suggested a town alliance. I see absolutely no scum reason for creating a system where town reads band together. Cooperation between town is death for scum.

In fact,

heavy FOS

for trying to ruin the best thing this has going for it. This town alliance is the way to victory. We need to keep it alive.

???

This Alliance seems to be FD calls someone scummy and then a bunch of other players sheep him. If FD is scum that sounds a great little system for scum to pick who gets lynched. Cooperation between town is death for scum. Town cooperation with scum is death to town. So far all its done is out two masons. Not sure where you are coming from here at all.

Its all for show anyway ... at its peak there were 2 in the alliance and Grey's comments suggested he wasn't guaranteed to sheep it anyway so the wagons have been because all players who weren't part of the so-called council jumped on the wagon - potentially scum who thought it was nice and safe.

[mikemike778]

bob is not pretending to be useful. He is useful

Give me two examples.

He s getting people talking - that is useful. More useful than you anyway.

Mikemike makes a couple of posts and the pressure deflates. I figure he'll keep up posting for a day or two and drop back into lurker territory. I wouldn't mind seeing him with the rope today either.
.

I don't have internet access during the day at work so yeah during the week my post count will drop RL > MS - not much I can do about that I'm afraid.

what? im on your side

What side would that be ? And more importantly how do you know ?

Bob looks town to me - FDs attack on him just looks complete waffle. Happy to lynch any of the following in this order of preference:

FD
Akira
Earworm
Bgg

Dunno about Grey he's going to need to be prodded soon anyway.

Haven't heard from Grey, but I like this.
VOTE: Archaist

@Zach: We'll make sure we agree before allowing a lynch.
Beyond that there's not a lot we can do without dropping post rate significantly while waiting for agreement.

I said from the start, they can call it a council or whatever bollocks they want but everyone is going to have to justify their vote. This looks a lot like piggy backing on FD and avoiding taking responsibility for your own vote.

VOTE: Monk

My god will I sheep you here Fate.

Llama, if you're wondering, I'll explain in the QT when I'm off the phone, but his last post is probably all the explanation you need.

And again ... does he ever even attempt to justify his vote ? Its too late in the day to pressure wagon Grey or its just going to fragment the votes further but he/they need looking at tomorrow.

[mikemike778]

@Akira: Really? Does it hurt your ass sitting on that fence? There has been 29 pages finished in this game and you really only have reads on 3 people? (well maybe four, if you count hiplop) So you are completely refusing to place any reads on the rest of us.

Okay, guess you're right. The FD wagon is way too big to ignore now.

FD is town because:

1

) The council. Scum would never propose a vote block because it will become obvious once they get past 2-3 nights without getting NKed. AND, they will also lose credibility when all of their lynches flip town. The council would just disappear and their members would become top suspects. Bad idea.

2

) FD scumhunts. He's the one who started the Twisted case for christ's sake! Yeah, that same case which has 5 players on it right now!!

It's either mikemike or Twisted. This wagon is NOT going to happen. The same goes for Grey, we'll think about him tomorrow. I can't believe people are actually wasting their vote on him. STOP FUCKING AROUND.

1. Who mentioned the scum team proposing a vote block? We are talking FD here there's a difference. Its unlikely that he'd put the whole scum team on the council. If the council lynched town why would the council members be a NK target ? With how well FD has done for scum so far why would he be a NK target ? The last game I played scum needed 3 mislynches - if FD got two of them using the 'council' then that'd be a pretty good result for him even if it got him lynched Day 3. If the other council members became suspects then great for him because if FD is scum then Grey probably isn't.

None of your logic makes the slightest bit of sense here and even if it did - the fact you are proposing to give FD a conf-town status shows

exactly why it would be a damn good idea for the scum to suggest the thing in the first place.

2. His first two targets are almost certainly masons. He's been mislynch hunting not scum hunting - throwing stuff around until it sticks and he gets his mislynch. There's a difference. Look at his play throughout the game Monk, Arch, Twisted, Me, Bob he's just been going through all of the players until he gets what he wants. So far he's help to draw three forced claims none of whom are likely to be lynched today which is great for the bad guys - if he's not scum then he's scums best friend.

Not sure exactly why you are buddying up to him so much as I'd be shocked if you were both scum, its almost certainly one of you or the other - one of you two needs to be lynched today.

[mikemike778]

Alright it's obvious that a grey wagon isn't happening today. I think allowing him to lurk is bad for town, and if we all worked in unison we would have plenty of time to pressure him and still pick a good lynch at the end, but meh.

Sort Grey out tomorrow ... he's not going to get away with lurking and sheeping FD but adding another wagon isn't a good idea now - Akira or FD need to be lynched.
Plus I don't see anyway FD and Grey are both scum so if FD flips scum then to me anyway Grey is semi cleared.

LOOK AT THIS SCUM MINDSET "why would we kill FD he's doing great for us?"

LOL

AGM MOVE OUR VOTE TO MIKE RIGHT FUCKIN NOW

HE'S CLAIMED SCUM AT THIS POINT

Probably your worst post of the game - just sounding desperate now.

Let's start keeping score.

FD: 3
Bob: 0

Congratulations ... any plans on giving us your invaluable insights on why Akira is town now please or are you planning on waiting till he's been lynched ?

[mikemike778]

Not going to be online again till tomorrow evening so with no real momentum on the FD wagon ...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Akira

[mikemike778]

I think FD is probably town

, and he's an experienced player who seems extremely confident in his read. That's affecting me somewhat, because at this point I don't feel strongly inclined towards either wagon.

Why what's he done to make you think he is town ? you were on his wagon 5 mins ago. I've not seen a single thing since then to offer up a town read on him - his lynch would be the most informative by far if you are working on that basis.

Anyway its going to be Twisted or Akira and I've not seen anything from Akira today to switch yet.

Bgg needs looking at tomorrow as well - even outside of the not announcing the L1 thing - that whole post looks fishy to me. And I've not forgotton the circumstances round his move onto the Monk wagon either.

[mikemike778]

Surely, Archaist should be prodded first.

Ts: Since you're going to be today's lynch I think a claim is in order.

He's not even L1 !!!!!!

[mikemike778]

Lol at scum attempting to quick lynch me when they know I'm not about to defend myself. Congrats to FD for getting another town to claim. Anyway I'm vanilla. Anyone like to explain the non existant case on me please before there's a hammer.

If you lynch me not the end of the world given I'm vanilla and the way the wagon came about (fact it came about at a time they knew I couldn't log in is a bit of a give-away guys I'm afraid) , its pretty obviously scum driven so any analysis of it should be pretty useful.

[mikemike778]

Mike:

Also according to user statistics Mike was on late last night and didn't post in thread.

Last night was 6:30 am in the UK - look it up.

Logged in briefly to catch up whilst eating my brekkie, saw there were another 3 pages in the thread and didn't have time for that so left it till I got back from work (ie now). With hindsight I'd have checked the last page, saw the vote count and claimed but there you go.

[mikemike778]

Once you figure out what those last two posts are missing Mike, you'll understand why you've been wagoned to this point.

ah let me guess .. content ... am I close ?

There's been absolutely zilch all new to comment on other than my wagon really - my reads haven't changed in the slightest since yesterday. But I'll regurgitate them for you and you don't even need to ask nicely plus add some other general comments.

FD's play has been pretty awful really and should be lynched but I guess its not going to happen. As I've said I think its unlikely that both him and Akira are both scum, its almost certainly one or the other. Same with Grey - there's no way they'd put themselves both on the firing line so if FD is scum, Grey probably isn't. His lynch will be extremely informative so hopefully you guys go that way tomorrow if I'm not about.

Akira would be my next pick - had a scum read on him all game, the only real concern and thing that would make me reluctant about lynching him is I don't think both him and FD are scum unless its a triple bluff from FD.

Next up ... Ear's suspicion remains in my eyes and probably needs a good ISO. His L1 vote read opportunistic scum all over. And I'm not convinced he's made a single useful post so far in the game.

Bgg .. His vote for Monk looks awful. Read it through again if I go. How can you read a post, quote it, decide its scummy but miss the damn soft claim ? Beggers belief.

Twisted - Maybe I'm missed something but I just have a neutral read on him. Just don't get the case on him at all.

Grey - linked with FD and a scum flip on FD would help clear this one up. As it stands his sheeping of FD with zero justification looks bad. And these are wagons which have been very useful to scum. Still think of the two, an FD lynch would be far more useful as it will tell you about Akira as well.

Bob - Playing very-very pro-town. Maybe I'm not experienced enough to detect fake pro-town play but I just don't see hm being scum yet.

Zach - actually you seem about the only person on my wagon to have actually attempted to justify it. Obviously I think you are talking bollocks but your entry onto the wagon does seem pretty consistent with your overall play throughout the day and less fake than most of them. Not got any real scum read on you.

Monk/Arch - Believe their claim 99% even if they have been pretty useless the rest of the time.

So to summarise if you can't be bothered to read the above, my list of top suspects:

1. FD
2. Akira
3. Ear
4. Bgg

[mikemike778]

How can you read a post, quote it, decide its scummy but miss the damn soft claim ?

Please don't make me change my mind about hammering you, if you're town.

This has also never happened. The softclaim is in post #188. I never once quoted that post.

Fair enough ... Akira was waiting for a claim before hammering so with a vanilla claim I'm expecting the chop any sec and wanted to get my thoughts out quickly before he splats me and didn't check the facts. Nontheless your vote was immediately after Monk's post so presumably you read it carefully and chose to vote for him.

Like I've said maybe its just because I'm used to mason heavy games where this kind of claim (and its not even a soft claim) is pretty standard but its looked pretty obvious to me. There's no way you could have read it properly and missed it. Which means you didn't bother to read his post properly and voted for him instead.

The point stands (just altered slightly).

[mikemike778]

Just been for a nice little run .... and had a think about my wagon on the way.

Hmm FD, Grey unsurprising.
Zach - already discussed
Monk - exonerated

Empking got me thinking, wasn't he the one demanding a claim from Twisted at L2 ? If so does he now think that seemed a bit silly given he then came off the Twisted wagon without a claim. I thought it was a bit strange how he started mine at the time as (at the time it seemed a wasted vote) now it seems even more strange.

Apologies again if I've not got my facts right but I've not got time to check at the moment and don't have the longest life expectancy so if it was him, just another something for you guys to think about on Day 2.

[mikemike778]

what about me?

sorry about that ... you've just floated around sheeping without saying anything of substance. You've not really been on of my top scum reads though as you've generally sounded fairly townish enough to push my attention elsewhere anyway.

[mikemike778]

Anyhow chaps ... 4 hours left to do the sensible thing and lynch some scum Day 1. If not I'll see you in the cemetary if there is one