Mini #76, Black and White

[Isaac]

/confirm

[Isaac]

It's just like MeMe to make fun of me just because I never learned to read. What a meanie. That said, I agree with her about bloojay. That vote stuck out for me, and thus far it's the scummiest thing around:

vote:bloojay

Because pretending a vote is random gets him off the hook if blackhawk comes up scummy, added to the fact that third (out of six) is the best time for mafia to come in: they neither get heat for starting the bandwagon, nor for finishing it.

[Isaac]

Dear Isaac,

Proofread your consarned posts before posting!

Love,

~Isaac

Gah! what my sentence up there is supposed to read is

"pretending a vote is random gets him off the hook if blackhawk comes up townie"

[Isaac]

unvote:bloojay

No reason to keep that vote there, as far as I can tell. I find No Idea pretty scummy right now. Why, you ask? Well, gather round. No Idea starts out his voting for MeMe post with saying that he's not doing it for revenge. Now, this piques my interest. Lots of us here were in Mafia 70, but it would never have occured to me that he was doing this for revenge. But of course, he goes out of his way to specifically mention he's not out for revenge. This can't help but make me think that revenge is at least on his mind. This, in itself isn't scummy, though. What really caught my eye was in his next post.

Perhaps the mafia is trying to get you lynched, then again perhaps not.

So where's this mafia bandwagon he's referring to coming from? The one vote that only he has on her? Now it's possible that when he says "the mafia" in that line he's referring to himself, but why go out of the way to obscure the issue and make his post as confusing as possible? So that the uncareful reader would not know what was going on, is my guess. I dunno, the posts I've read from No Idea lately all give me the idea that he wants to kill MeMe today because of what happened in another game, and he jumped on the flimsiest excuse possible to start a bandwagon, and then obscure his own involvement in said bandwagon.

By my count, he has one vote, and surely deserves another:

vote: No Idea

[Isaac]

Hey there...

I don't even really want to be posting this, but I didn't post yesterday, and dammit, I want to post something constructive today. So I don't see why we should kill blackhawk. He didn't make a suspicious claim at all, he didn't change his claim, he didn't really do anything that Gammie is voting him for. It seems like he's being voted for now mostly because people want this day to be over. Which is, of course, a really bad idea. There's more than enough crap logic in this game so far without having to resort to lynching someone because we want the day to be over.

Now, for other things. I'm actually casting a suspicious eye at Meme these days. She started on blackhawk for no real reason. She has, what, five billion posts since the boards went up last? Yet all of a sudden, for all this experience, she somehow misreads blackhawks fairly simple claim? A claim that I, with my considerably lower post count, was able to figure out. Also, here's another thing. She says that it looks like some other townies may ahve gotten sllightly different role claims than what she got. But lord knows I had a completely wording of my townie role when I recieved it than anything that's been posted so far. It almost sounds like she never recieved a townie role at all.

Here's the thing about those townie role claims. I'll bet you that all of us townies got different wordings on our claim. Otherwise, in a game with only townies and mafia it would be too easy to make people claim and then lynch them if they got different wording, with too much of an advantage for the town.

Anyhow, I think lynching Blackhawk would be a mistake, and i'll be damned if i'm going to put the final, foolish vote on him. There are much more suspicious people in the game right now.

[Isaac]

Yes, yes, let's go to that vote:

Celly, I agree with your assessment of blackhawk's last post.

unvote: Carmine
vote: blackhawk

Careful, MeMe, you don't want to overwhelm us with information.

it sounds like he's doubting the added role flavor even exists while attempting to say that he has it anyway. He has always acted a little suspicious and I think that without any cops, the only way to make sure is to let him hang. Confirme Vote: Blackhawk

This is a pretty stupid set of reasons to vote for someone. I doubted that added role flavor existed, and for good reason. I didn't get it, and most townies probably didn't get it as well. From the sounds of it, we all got different role PMs. As for the second part of that sentence, I didn't get the feeling that that was what he was saying at all. Purposeful misreading? Methinks so! Tack onto that some unsubstantiated "he's generally suspicious" and some utter nonsense about the only way we'll discover if someone is scum if we hang them, and voila! You have bad reasons for lynching. Here's a fun little hint: we have the discussion phase during the day because cops or no cops, discussion is the best chance we have to get mafia is to get talking, not lynching people for vague reasons.

As for the second part, you sez:

The only way anyone could know that townie roles have extra stuff tacked on is to have actually received such a role; bloojay would have to be an extraordinary guesser if he were scum.

So i have to question: if blackhawk claims after bloojay and is scum, why wouldn't he just claim the same thing as bloojay? If anything, such a claim would make it seem like he was a townie. Especially when he goes out of his way later page two to mention he has different PM text than bloojay. Scum copy what other townies say, they tend not to put themselves out on a limb like that. Now, my thoughts are that one of two things happened:

1)You got some other flavor text in yr townie PM role, and for some reason, it never occured to your 1438 post making mind that the mod could have mixed up the PMs a bit, and you jump on blackhawk.

2)You're scum who figures that bloojay was being truthful, and so you jump on blackhawk, who seems like an easy lynch.

Now, why didn't I vote for you? Well, for one thing, what's the point? Blackhawk is a lost cause, I just wanted to get my thoughts out there before twilight, and later night, came. I'll be the first to admit that my last post was garbled, that's because i wanted to get something else out there today, so i posted before my mid afternoon nap right after i came home from work. So i was tired and cranky, and just wrote sentences as they came to my mind. It happens, but it beats not posting at all. Also, this dovetails with another reason i didn't vote for you: i was in a rush to get to bed, and just dashed off that post. Finally, let's be realistic here. If, by some magical device, blackhawk wasn't lynched and you were, i don't htink there'd be much way i could get around the fact that I had started it, vote or no vote. Alright, i'm still tired, so i'm off.

[Isaac]

Blachawk-what is up with that claim change? if you were an aspring vig, .

bloojay, what's the deal with being unable to read? For god's sake, this is why i think a lynch on blackhawk is a bad idea. Read the goddamned thread. He mentions he thinks his role could be an aspiring vig. It's other people who turned this into some sort of magical role claim that he changes later by saying he's a townie.

I can't conceive how u can even argue that Meme is more suspicious than Blackhawk. The only relevant thing that your post tells us is that if Blackhawk turns out to be scum, we've found another one as well.

In response, here's a fun little vignette called 'The Inner Mind of Scum Isaac"

Cast: Isaac's inner voice 1
Isaac's inner voice 2

Isaac1: Say here, dear chap, look at this: our fellow mafia member is one vote from a lynch.

Isaac2: Well then, dear heart, let's cast the final vote. He's a lost cause, and this way we can allay any suspicions of our own scumminess.

Isaac1: Aye, that

seems

like a good idea.

Isaac2: Seems?

Isaac1: How about, instead of that, which will make people think that we aren't scum... we instead specifically go out of our way to defend him before his near-inevitable lynching, so that everyone will be suspicious of us tomorrow.

Isaac2: But if everyone's suspicious of us tomorrow, how does that help us and the mafia?

Isaac1: It doesn't

Isaac2: Well, let's do it, then.

Isaac1: Woo!

And so, my brilliant plan to make myself obvious to the town right before they lynched one of my comrades was forged. Woo!

[Isaac]

Curse you, mafiascum board html, cuuuurse you!

[Isaac]

Celly made sense, why repeat it?

Man, here I was quoting someone i'm responding to. What a scummy move on my part. Way to see right through my guise, MeMe. Bravo!

And for god's sake, what has blackhawk done that was scummy, hmm? I still don't see anything htat I do'nt believe was an honest mistake or a willful misreading on your and other people's part. Seriously, in every post you've talked about blackhawk doing something scummy, but what? WHAAAAT?

[Isaac]

And really I don't see what you have against Meme for playing for a long time.

Ah, purposefully misreading someone else's posts. Great move. Anyway, if you'd actually read my posts, you'd know my problem is that MeMe is acting stupid. MeMe isn't stupid, though, and if she can keep on misreading posts and fail to draw obvious conclusions, it raises some obvious questions in my mind. The fact that it would never occur to her, with something like a billion games under her belt, that the mod sent out conflicting townie PMs, especially when hers is different from the one that was claimed, i find very difficult to believe. Which means that either MeMe is stupid, or acting stupid. This is why i keep on bringing up her experience. She's experienced enough that she shouldm't make stupid mistakes like that unless she does it on purpose.

[Isaac]

And then he seems to imply (after the quoted portion) that he has flavor, but it's different than bloojay's.

What tipped you off, the part where he says "bloojay's is different than mine"? You read that as him referring to flavor, i read it as him referring to his role claim. I don't think there's anything scummy about saying out loud that his pm was different from bloojay's, in fact, if anything, it's not scummy at all.

he theorizes that it sounds like he's an aspiring vig. It's right there, Isaac -- I didn't misread a thing. Bandwagon forms.

exactly. he

theorizes

: he doesn't claim. it seems like bloojay et al are trying to lynch him cause they think he claimed vig. But he never did. He mentione in an offhand manner that he thought his role could be an aspiring vig. there's nothing wrong with theorizing about his role, even if he's wrong. There's something VERY wrong about misreading him and then blaming him for a claim he never made.

Best part:

Can you say "he doth protest too much" -- not to mention "too largely"?

So denying that one is scum, especially in the face of such crap logic, is scummy? I guess next time I'm unfairly bandwagoned, I'll just keep quiet. I mean, why try to defend yourself? Mounting a defense is soooo scummy.

Anyhow, i'm done for tonight, I'll see y'all tomorrow.

[Isaac]

It looks as though you're operating from a position of guilt -- expecting it to be obvious to everyone else as well.

This is painful for me, but... um..
I..
er..

that is, I...

agree... with

well, not really, but

gah! I agree with MeMe. I hope you're all happy. Carmine was apparently acting as though she was one vote from death, and from bitter experience I can say that i've only ever made those sorts of posts of "oh, pity for me" guilt trip posts when I'm guilty myself. Nonetheless, I'm not sure enough to put the last vote on 'im. Mostly because if I cast the last vote and Carmine isn't mafia, I'm a sure bet for lynching tomorrow, and I like my neck unbroken, thank you very much. I can also say that if Carmine

is

mafia, we've pretty much got Fletcher as confirmed mafia as well for that attempt to completely change the subject.

[Isaac]

I was hoping for more discussion today, but I can't imagine learning anything else today from Carmine. As I stated before, I basically agree with MeMe's reasoning, and Carmine hasn't helped himself at all. I'm sure enough that he's scum to take the chance of casting the final vote....

vote: Carmine

[Isaac]

My thoughts are that my head is freaking killing me, and that I'm damn pissed that Ny Quil doesn't come in 3 gallon jugs. Besides that these are my thoughts through the cold/flu haze:

We have seven people left, two of whom are mafia. That means we have two day lynches in (assuming that the mafia kill townies at night) before the game becomes unwinnable for the town. With that said, I don't know how comfortable I am with lynching Fletcher today. The best argument that I've found in the thread is that so far we have no reason to believe that any of our town role PMs were identical to anyone else's. Yet Fletcher claimed (unless i'm remembering wrongly) that he had the exact same role PM as Bloojay.

However, I also have my reservations. Besides the fact that we need to be more judicious in our lynchings (as I noted above) there's something that I thought would put Fletcher's head in a noose yesterday. The fact that he went out of his way to try to derail the Carmine bandwagon. At the time I thought it was a bald mafia saving mafia ploy. But now I have to wonder why he would do such a thing. I honestly have no idea why he would, either if he were scum or not. Perhaps he can explain why he felt compelled to post this as a way of supplement his defense? I dunno.

Other thoughts:

So MeMe has made two mistakes today. What's the deal? She's usually such a close reader, yet she has forgotten that the bloojay was killed last night, and she cast a vote on Fletcher based on the wrong idea that he had posted "you guys just lynched an innocent" before Carmine's twilight post. I don't think this is scum posturing (although I will admit the idea croseed my mind) but it does stick out because MeMe is usually such a careful and attentive player. I don't really have a point with this, it just strikes me as wierd.

And last thing:

So the mafia killed bloojay? WTF? Their first two kills seemed obvious. Talitha because she's experienced. Mystery Celly because she was an asset to the town. But now bloojay? He was doing nothing for the town, to the extent that I was thinking he was lurking mafia. I can't even begin to piece together what all this means right now because my head feels like it's in a vice, and as this game has shown, my logic circuits aren't hte most reliable things even in the best of times. But there's more stuff to talk about here, so lets get to it.

[Isaac]

I think Isaac should quote his mod PM NOW.

Hey, hasty-pants, why don't you try reading the thread and you'd realize that I already have a number of times? I got one word: townie. As for my vote on carmine, I posted that first post at the beginning of the weekend. At the end of the weekend, with no further discussion and with me more or less convinced of carmine's guilt, I voted.

[Isaac]

*looks at her PM*

Vote: Isaac

I think all the PMs are different (as I've said before), but based on mine...They're not that bland as to be a one word PM that just says "Townie."

Let me get this logic straight:

Hmm, all the PMs are different. Isaac's is different than mine! He must be scum!

Brilliant.

[Isaac]

It's still pretty bad logic. Essentially, you're saying that because your role had more flavor, every role should have flavor. But hte only rule that we've found thus far is that there is no common thread to the townie roles, besides the obvious fact that they all say that we're townies. Besides, we already have an example of a fairly flavorless townie. Carmine claimed her role said "plain townie." She's a dead townie now, but you should get my point: she had a two word role. Why is it such a stretch of logic that I would have a one word role?

[Isaac]

So we have had lots of claims. No one else has claimed to have a repeated PM. So i say that everyone who hasn't said what was in their PM yet should do so. It can't really hurt us in any way that I can think of, and if no one else has a repeated PM, that's more than enough reason to lynch Fletcher for me.

[Isaac]

It's not like this has been a busy-votin' day, Fletcher. You have two votes, one from MeMe and one from Wacky. Thus far, we have absolutely no evidence that anyone but you got repeated roles. Of course, I don't believe you actually did get a repeated role, unless all the mafia got the same role. Which is something we can flesh out later, I suppose. At any rate, what with your claiming a repeated role and the other scummy moves that have been noted by various others like MeMe (that "we just lynched an innocent" remark stuck out to me too), I'm comfortable as I'm going to be doing this:

vote: Fletcher

That's three of five. Merry Christmas!

[Isaac]

Well, i'm a townie, so i would advise against lynching me. Yesterday i thought my vote was the third because i missed kerplunk's second vote because he didn't seperate it from the paragraph. Instead, it was sitting over on the right hand side of his post, and i missed it even though i scanned the page thrice. I thought we had five votes because on the same page where the day opened, Polarboy said we needed five to lynch. Of course, he was referring to the previous day, but what can ya do? All the same, I would have voted the same even if i had been cogniscent of the fact that it was the fourth and deadly vote. Lets face it, he looked damn scummy. He was claiming a repeated role claim when everyone else had unique ones, and it looked like he was piggybacking carmine's role.

Anyhow, as to what MeMe said:

Day 1 - he never voted for blackhawk and defended him heavily

Yes, because I didn't agree with the reasons for lynching him, and i thought he was being railroaded. My attacking MeMe grew naturally out of that, as since I thought he was being railroaded, it would make sense that she would be the one railroading him, as she was the one going full force after him.


Day 2 - put the final vote on Carmine

Yep! Cause she was the scummiest looking person in the town, and I thought she was scum. What MeMe convinently leaves out here is the fact that she was the prime mover behind the carmine bandwagon, and really is as culpable, if not moreso, than I in her death.


Day 3 - acts confused over the mafia's choice to kill bloojay
Day 3 - puts final vote on Fletcher while claiming it's "three of five" when it was actually four of four.

I'm still confused over the mafia's decision to kill bloojay. It still doesn't make sense. Bloojay was not an asset to the town, why kill him at night? Especially cause we know there are no doctors.

I talked about the three of five business above, and MeMe neglects to mention that she was the prime mover behind that bandwagon as well. Again, she voted for him, she convinced others (myself included) to vote for him.

So that's what was going through my head. So i've got bad judgement, particularly in my decisions to agree with MeMe, but what can ya do? Anyhow, I'm of the opinion that MeMe and No Idea are probably our remaining scum, but then again i've shown particularly bad judgement this game, so take all that with a grain of salt.

[Isaac]

Question:

Why am I alive?

The mafia only needs one innocent vote in order to lynch a townie today. With that, the remaining mafia can cast their two votes and end the game. No Idea has voted for me. Logically, therefore, either No Idea or myself am scum, as the mafia does not have the one townie vote they need to end the game. Now, I know i'm not scum, but i'll bet ya dollars to doughnuts either the mafia didn't figure out what I just told y'all (not likely) or No Idea is scum.

[/b]

[Isaac]

Scum wins!

My money's still on MeMe and (especially) No Idea being the scum in the town, but I can't be sure. After all, I was wrong about pretty much everything else in this game.

[Isaac]

I

knew

it! I was pretty suspicious of MeMe from the dawn of day three, but i didn't dare say anything cause I figured doing so would only result in my own lynching and help her position. Curses!

[Isaac]

I would like to point out:

this is the second game

in a row

that i've played where MeMe, being scum, lasts to the end of the game despite the fact that people repeatedly point out that the scum should have lynched her already. Next game (which some of us will probably be in all together) let's cut our losses and just lynch MeMe first.