Mini 1258: Marionette Mafia (Over)

[vijay2vasandani]

Lucky last XD /confirm

[vijay2vasandani]

alright, game time.
VOTE: painkiller

So for a few questions:
- What timezone are you in?
- What role do you enjoy playing as?
- Does anybody have any work/school conditions that can hinder posting at times?

My answers:
- I am in GMT +8:00.. i think.. Lol, Western Australia standard time.
- I enjoy anything but VT XD i like being able to do stuff.
- I am 17 years old, so still in school and may not post as much during heavy load weeks. However i will mention it beforehand.

[vijay2vasandani]

@redtail: no. I think that questioning combined with random voting achieves the best results. One example is how I didn't like how you responded to redpanda's random vote on you for liking VT as a role. IMO, that came off as a bit of a joke, but your response seemed a little too jumpy for my liking.

VOTE: redtail

@shinki: while I respect your opinion about not choosing to vote, there must be something you can add to the game. It doesn't have to be any suspicions regarding scum, it could be who seems the most town. Another thing you could do is give your views regarding redtail's reaction (sorry if you did that already)

[vijay2vasandani]

@ redtail: I have to admit, my vote on you was for the same reason as Delta's, only before him. I believed that you're response was jumpy. However the problem I have with Delta is that he tried to build a case based entirely on that. Only scum deal in absolutes and additionally you have defended yourself pretty well. With that I'm going to

unvote

I'm going to reread and see who I find the most suspicious. I'm tempted to vote for Delta because he seemed like opportunistic scum jumping on a wagon, but I want to make sure.

[vijay2vasandani]

Sorry guys but Delta just reads as town who tunneled a bit too hard for a bad reason. After that he defended badly, but just seems like town who made a mistake. Parama on the other hand kind of annoys me. I know I haven't posted that much, but if his fake claim was a joke, it threw a lot of us off when we saw it. He seems to be the scummiest player so far who thought he saw an opportunity to take advantage of what he believes to be noobs playing. Overall I don't see how he has helped town whatsoever and the negative impact of the fakeclaim just shoves him higher on my scumlist.

VOTE: Parama

[vijay2vasandani]

@parama: yeah sorry if you have to ic some of us here. I'll admit I am a newbie and I'm struggling to keep up with this game. I'll do my best though.

unvote

Unvote, vote Hermano

This is where the cool kids are meeting.

Lol right.

vote: charter

[vijay2vasandani]

I am so confused. Honestly I'm struggling to keep up.

unvote

@nab: i'll try to give you that wall in a bit, let me reread the thread again..

[vijay2vasandani]

Ah fuck. I had a post which took ages on my phone to make and I lost it. Anyway, here is what it.boils down to:

Initially, Delta makes a case based on redtails jumpy response to redpanda's questions regarding VT as a favourite role. Personally, I posted that I also found redtails response jumpy and voted for him(her?). However, Delta reached and tried to make an entire case based on that. When this was pointed out to him by dank and NabNab, he quickly accuses them of being redtails scumbuddies and says that "(his) case is airtight". Subsequently, a wagon forms on him because of this line of reasoning.

After Delta gets put at L-1 by Shinki, his "airtight" case seems to have lost steam and developed some holes. Holes that were pointed out by dank, nab and redtail, but delta refused to acknowledge until he was brought to the brink of being lynched. He quickly jumps on Parama's fake-jokeclaim and votes for him under the pretence that non-serious players should be lynched. Once again, I did the same thing, so this probably isn't the best part of the case. However, when he retracts his vote, he quickly places it on the next wagon to materialize, which is Hermano.

I'll be honest, I'm not exactly the most experienced player, and under Parama's definition, I am a noob. However, Delta's play stinks of scum who frantically reacted to an almost Lynch by retracting a case he considered to be "airtight" and quickly hopping onto the next available wagon.

@charter: I know you have Delta as a townread but you do realise he unvoted Hermano, right?

VOTE: Deltawave

Aside from this, I have suspicions on Hermano and Shinki. I had the reasons in the post I lost. I'll try to type it up again in a bit.

[vijay2vasandani]

What do you think about delta and the case againts him. What about Shinki, and anyone else?

Delta's case bothered me before but I haven't noticed much else. I'd consider a vote in the future. Shinki's jump on and off the bandwagon seemed odd. Might mean something if delta is scum.

Who are you looking at? Is it just a coincidence your post on me comes after parama's questions and redtail's case? Do you like that case?

I don't like that you weren't clear about whether you really suspect me or not. It makes your post look a lot like posturing.

Honestly, imo this reeks of scum trying to avoid voting for his scumpartner. The case seemed to be reaching and me, a noob noticed it. However, Hermano dismisses it as a bother.. furthermore he also dismisses Shinki quickly jumping on and off the wagon as just "odd". I saw it as scummy, because I thought Shinki was scum trying to get townie points when Delta flips scum. Note how he says "might mean something if delta flips scum". Honestly this sounds like hedging so he can get townie points when we lynch Shinki after Delta flips scum. Mainly this is what gave me the suspicion for this scumteam.

I honestly think parama is just being incredibly bored with this game, to the point where he completely doesn't care anymore.

Why do you think this? Do you find the game boring? It seems to be moving fast enough, wagons are happening, he's posting regularly, and he totally refuses to replace out, saying he's the best in the game. That totally doesn't align with boredom in my mind. So please explain why you buy that, and I'll reconsider my vote.

Another thing that really screamed out to me is this inconsistency. He says that Parama is incredibly bored when he makes his fake claim. Yet when the same point is made by somebody else (dank I think?) He lashes out by asking if that person finds the game boring. Imo, inconsistencies are made by scum who can't keep track of all the bull they make up and is a strong scumtell. What's awkward is that he voted for that person(i think) because of that.

FoS: HermanoBro and Shinki/don

[vijay2vasandani]

well boredom in a very active game makes me suspicious for one.

@Parama: You're scum, so all the scumhunting is boring to you. You hadn't even read the game, you just checked in before to see if you had to do something. Suspicion is going your way so you finally decide to read and contribute. You blame the newbs for everything and have been riding on that excuse all game. That's suspicious behavior.

Sorry, this is the post where Hermano says he thinks Parama is bored and then when dank does it he rages. And sorry for the triple post.

[vijay2vasandani]

@ charter: lol, honestly I don't mind voting for either hermano, Shinki/don or delta because imo they're all scum. However I believe my reads in that atm delta is scummier than hermano. If you don't think so, then that's up to you.

[vijay2vasandani]

Um let me correct that Delta. First of all, I voted for redtail before you did. You had the same line of reasoning I did yet tried to extend it as far as a full case meriting a lynch. That was scummy. Next, you rescinded your airtight case ONLY when placed at L-1, when the points that invalidated the case were raised almost directly after your post in the first place. That is scummy. Thirdly, I conceded that you voting for Parama was not a strong point in my case against you. As a matter of fact, I can safely ignore that part. However, the vibe I got from your posts still seems to be a scummy one, because of the first two points. Along with that, I didn't vote for HermanoBro, so point 4 only really applies to Parama. Point 1 I have refuted above, point 2 I have conceded. Now tell me when you say "lots of discussion", you are obviously referring to you parrotting charter and dank in post 274 (iso #25) which coincidentally comes after post 242 (iso #24) where you unvoted parama am I right?

[vijay2vasandani]

Yeah I think I'm right. My vote for redtail was to put pressure. I don't know about the second point. I found it scummy but I guess that's a valid explanation for it. Lastly my argument in the last point is that you voted for hermano directly after unvoting parama. Furthermore, your reason was that charter summed it up perfectly. Charter provided a summation of dank's case, so you parrotted them both which is why I said you jumped on the bandwagon.

[vijay2vasandani]

No, no, no, no. It's not that hermano is or isn't scummy. Parrotting is scummy Delta. Using other people's thinking to make it look like you're helping without contributing.

Um thanks Hiraki I doubt I'm good at it though.

[vijay2vasandani]

Yeah great points Delta. Going from town tunneling too hard to scummy isn't a 180 in my opinion. Originally it seemed like you thought you were town but upon rereading, I found you suspicious. What's wrong with that? And note that "agreeing" with somebody and parroting their argument is different. What you did felt like parroting. Which is why I called you on it.

@JoNo: yeah I vote for a lot of people. I don't see what's wrong with that.

[vijay2vasandani]

EBWOP:
my 3rd sentence should be:
"originally it seemed like you were town but upon rereading..."

[vijay2vasandani]

@ nabnab: yes I can see why that might seem like a forced read. It's kinda embarrassing but like I said I didn't really understand the game before, and when I reread the entire game from p1 I saw it differently. I still don't understand fully what is going on but I have a little more faith in my reads atm.

[vijay2vasandani]

@ Dank: the only difference is my last point. I believe that Delta parroting charter who summed up your case is another scummy action by him. I mean you would agree, that if I said I agreed with you and voted whoever you did, it would not help town as much as me arguing and putting forward my thoughts. Furthermore I believe this is an inconsistency in Delta's play because I remember him questioning Shinki's vote on him, bolded below:

This is my list of things I find suspect right now. I'm not including Redtail or dank on this list right now because I'm looking to avoid tunneling. Their absence from this list doesn't mean I'm not watching them closely.

(1) Para's vig claim. There is no town reason to claim vig on D1. This is especially odd because para is not under any pressure to roleclaim.
(2) Hermano's bizarre request that we do not investigate the aforementioned vig claim. The town needs more information, not less.

(3) Shinki's unexplained vote on my bandwagon.

For the record, I am suspicious of

all

bandwagon votes that amount to "oh look a bandwagon, imma jump on" without much reasoning. I put this one at the end because it's the one I am the least suspicious of.

Yet, if he us suspicious of these things, why would he do the same thing himself? That point caused me to evaluate his overall scumminess to be far more than that of Hermano and Shinki at the moment.

[vijay2vasandani]

I am not trying to manufacture a case against you. I'm only trying to explain why I have my gut tells me that you are scummy. Funnily enough the case I am presenting is similar to the one initially raised, except for my last point. Yet you haven't raised those points before.

[vijay2vasandani]

Hmmm. That's interesting. Parama you seem to think you can determine the scumteam, what about Delta-Hermano-Shinki? Does that look like a possibility to you? In accordance with my reads, that would suggest a bus by Delta, but for some reason I'm not sure. I don't know if its because I don't know if scum would bus d1 (newbieness) or if its because of just the vibe I'm getting.. however buddying up to charter by delta noted.

@ Dank: you asked what was different about my case on Delta. What do you think about my response? Is it "forced"? I think they are pretty valid.

@ Delta: it isn't like that. I read your posts, I get weird vibes. I reread and try to see why that is the case. Good misrepping and discrediting me though.

[vijay2vasandani]

I'm assuming that the chain lynching comments cone from my comments about who I believe the scumteam is? If that is the case I'm sorry.

@ Delta: I said misrepping because you made out like I convinced you were scummy and only searched for evidence to prove it. And this is the point where are arguments meet. You said Shinki posted a one-liner to vote you. However, I do not take "i agree with your case" to be a valid enough reason. Maybe its just me, but if you want to vote for somebody seriously, contribute to the case and make some justification. Not doing that is where I believe your scumminess lies because I don't see how it helps us as town.

[vijay2vasandani]

@ dank: did you see my question?

[vijay2vasandani]

Yes. I quoted it. I'm sorry but i'll say it again, I don't like the fact that the focal point of your vote is somebody else's reasoning. It does not sit well with me. Sorry.

@ whoever: WHO SAID THEY HAD A THING TO SAY ABOUT THE SHINKI SLOT? please contribute your thoughts. We need to get this game going. Not talking is bad for us guys.

[vijay2vasandani]

I have said that you, hermano and Shinki/don are my three scumspects. The other thing is that I have taken your agreeing with the previous elements of your case and thus find you overall scummy. As to me voting Herman if not, there are three reasons. First, its my vote so I can do what I see fit with it. Second, personally my case on you is stronger than my case on hermano. You seem scummier to ME than hermano. And please don't say that's not what others think, because frankly my thoughts should matter more to me than others. Lastly, Hermano hasn't been posting consistently and I can't get a vibe from him because of it. However I have said that I would be willing to vote for him, but I would like him to start posting first.

Furthermore, something I would like to point out is that you should stop defending purely Delta. NOTE: don't misrep and say I said I told you not to defend. I mean you should be doing scumhunting while defending. As a matter of fact can you personally lay out your case on Hermano?

[vijay2vasandani]

@ Delta: if you posted that when you voted I wouldn't have said anything.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: HermanoBro

Now, not to be hypocritical, I will do a PbPA on him and try to add on to everybody's cases.

[vijay2vasandani]

well boredom in a very active game makes me suspicious for one.

@Parama: You're scum, so all the scumhunting is boring to you. You hadn't even read the game, you just checked in before to see if you had to do something. Suspicion is going your way so you finally decide to read and contribute. You blame the newbs for everything and have been riding on that excuse all game. That's suspicious behavior.

I honestly think parama is just being incredibly bored with this game, to the point where he completely doesn't care anymore.

Why do you think this? Do you find the game boring? It seems to be moving fast enough, wagons are happening, he's posting regularly, and he totally refuses to replace out, saying he's the best in the game. That totally doesn't align with boredom in my mind. So please explain why you buy that, and I'll reconsider my vote.

Do you think scum would be crying out to be the center of attention, and fakeclaiming in the first few pages? Do you find that more suspicious than the players skating through and not contributing much if anything?

I think fakeclaiming is pretty suspicious, I must say. His over the top play reads like an attempt at social dominance among those he perceives as lesser players. If he acts bad enough while it's less risky(RVS) he can get away with anything, even blatantly fakeclaiming. It's a bit of a stretch but boredom seems more out of place to me.

Also it's hard for me to be suspicious of the lurkers when some players post so regularly and present all the protown opinions to make themselves look good. I do think it's unfair to say my analysis is redundant when your whole questioning of my play is redundant, and I was just answering a question. Your right I probably don't look like I'm scumhunting as much as someone who is trying to look good. Frankly there's been enough active posting that I haven't needed to struggle to get reactions.

Ah here it is. Personally I find inconsistency to be one of the biggest scumtells, because scum get confused over all the bullshit they make up in a game. Here is an example of one. Initially, Hermano says he thinks Parama is bored with the game in an attempt to explain his behaviour. Yet a few posts later, he does 180 and questions why dank believes that parama is bored. On its own, its not big, but put together with everything, I believe it strengthens the case against Hermano.

Weirdly enough, I'm feeling deja vu. Have I said this before?

[vijay2vasandani]

Vijay: Why do you care what I "think" about your answer to one of my questions? Do you want me to put you at ease? Do you want me to say i'm not convinced, so that you can defend yourself some more?

Well, personally, I thought you were asking me for some reason (i.e. to put stuff forward to town). I'm sorry if this is being noobish, but I always expect you to say something when I respond. Even an acknowledgement would have been fine, otherwise, why should I have put in the effort to respond to your question in the first place?

@ charter: lol how am I bussing? XD

[vijay2vasandani]

Really hiraki? Why? Can you point the holes in our cases? Or is it because of gut?

[vijay2vasandani]

^ this.

Can you be serious about it please? Are you claiming or not?

[vijay2vasandani]

UNVOTE:

Guess I'm going to have to sit this one out..

[vijay2vasandani]

Um because there were 6 people voting JoNo and somebody already declared an intent to hammer? Charter what was your case on me again?

[vijay2vasandani]

Btw, cheers LlamaFluff for taking over

[vijay2vasandani]

Vote Parama

Hopefully we've weeded out all the idiots and now we can lynch scum.

Right. Or you could just be happy that we lost two PRs scum.
VOTE: Charter

Now lets hear why you think I am scum.

[vijay2vasandani]

And Vijay is still likely scum, but Parama is obvscum.

Explain this charter. i will Listen if it makes sense to me.

I've played with Parama enough to know when he's not town, and he's not town. I'll see if I can list some reasons since everyone seems to like that.

Let's see your points on me while your at it. Honestly I think you're bullshitting, trying to get townpoints with your supposed "reads" which I cannot see having any conceivable reason.

[vijay2vasandani]

Vijay, what I find scummy about you:

Yesterday I thought you were Hermano's scumbuddy, but that's obviously not the case. Some other things I find suspicious but I didn't think were very solid yesterday and I didn't want muddying the waters. Looking at it today, it's might make a nice case, but I'm less certain of you being scum than I was when the day started.

---

How you initially said you thought Delta was "town who tunneled a bit too hard for a bad reason" in 223, then voted him in 339, but I think your reasons for doing so were quite suspect. The timeline of your reasoning does not add up all. You say that

'However, Delta's play stinks of scum who frantically reacted to an almost Lynch by retracting a case he considered to be "airtight" and quickly hopping onto the next available wagon.'

but this had already occurred long before post 223 (the unvote was in 144, and he voted Parama in 213). Doesn't add up.

---

Then you also give this reason in 339.

'He quickly jumps on Parama's fake-jokeclaim and votes for him under the pretence that non-serious players should be lynched.'

but guess what you said in post 223. "Overall I don't see how he has helped town whatsoever and the negative impact of the fakeclaim just shoves him higher on my scumlist." and then voted Parama. You say Delta voting Parama is suspicious for the same reason you voted Parama.

Oh okay then. I just want to say that those posts are 116 posts apart, so I think I am allowed to change my mind. Also, I did a reread of the thread before posting 339 and got a different feel for Delta the second time around. It's kinda embarrassing because Nab said I was lagging behind but that was possibly the case. Cheers for clearing that up.
UNVOTE:
Can we get a votecount? I like the cases on Hiraki and I want my vote on him, but I don't want to hammer him before we get some content from him.

[vijay2vasandani]

Sorry Llama but I think I unvoted. Anyway,
VOTE: Hiraki

[vijay2vasandani]

Nice case!

+1

[vijay2vasandani]

No, I haven't been given cause to believe that. Last I checked he was at null leaning town for me.

[vijay2vasandani]

Breaking your case in half, go read any of my completed games. I don't scum hunt.

Lol what? Not a defense.

@ Charter: yes, Hiraki. But kdowns is not far behind.

[vijay2vasandani]

Actually, atm I can see myself believing kdowns claim. Gut feeling that he isn't lying.

@ charter: I'm reconsidering your read of Parama obvscum

[vijay2vasandani]

Uh yeah no. It's a PL. Sure he may be kinda scummy for voting somebody without a case but gut could have come into play. You on the other hand, are pushing a PL at day 2 after we lost a number of our PRs
VOTE: Parama

[vijay2vasandani]

Vijay. answer this? Is hiraki your main suspect?

Breaking your case in half, go read any of my completed games. I don't scum hunt.

Lol what? Not a defense.

@ Charter: yes, Hiraki. But kdowns is not far behind.

Sorry i responded to your question but I said "@Charter" instead of RedPanda. However, in the light of current events its Hiraki and Parama.

[vijay2vasandani]

See the thing is I'm playing another game with Hiraki and he is acting the same. But people there say that he doesn't normally play like that, so I was using that meta read for this game as well. However if it turns out he always plays like this then I wouldn't have anything definite putting him at null leaning scum because of gut, instead of just scum.

[vijay2vasandani]

No worries

[vijay2vasandani]

Um RedPanda, just wondering when is that case on me coming up?

[vijay2vasandani]

Lol what I end up getting from your case is that I play crap. And I admit that's probably a fair point. Wait not probably, im pretty bad at this game. you're case boils down to you don't scumhunt. Not you're fake scumhunting which seems scummy. *sigh*

Anyway a few things about your case:
1. Could you do quotes? I don't want to have to go back to my ISO to see what you're talking about.
2. ISO 2 - what's wrong with that? I got a scummy reaction from your test. Want me to write you a letter saying thanks?
3. In ISO 3 I wanted to reread Delta first, and when I read his posts he came off as tunneling town. Good try at misrepresenting me though.
4. Right so in regards to ISO 7 I can't change my mind even if I explicitly said I was going to do a reread? Cool story. Furthermore, I attacked him for the point raised in ISO 2 not just out of the blue. It's just that the reread made me see him differently.
5. Then you proceed to make fun of me for a while. I admit, I enjoyed some of those.
6. ISO 42 - my case was meta I got from other players. If you tell me that isn't true then I DON'T have a case on him.

Nice try at a case though. I'll accept that I haven't been scumhunting as well as I can and will try to fix that.

[vijay2vasandani]

Lol funnily enough I sort of get a feeling you're town. If you're convinced with your case on me then there's nothing more I can do about it. However, Hiraki is scum. Lynch me today if you want, provided you guys lynch Hiraki after.

[vijay2vasandani]

HIRAKI

HAVE SOME LESS THAN THREES

ALL OF THEM

(insertpictureofliljonsmiling)

I'll get to this later.

I'll have something up by tonight.

no you can read this one

that's annoying.

tomorrow I'll have something up

for a second there I thought you were being serious. gj there. I'm going to actually start now.

OKAAAYYYYYY.

LET'S DO THIS.

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

So for a few questions:
- What timezone are you in?
- What role do you enjoy playing as?
- Does anybody have any work/school conditions that can hinder posting at times?

My answers:
- I am in GMT +8:00.. i think.. Lol, Western Australia standard time.
- I enjoy anything but VT XD i like being able to do stuff.
- I am 17 years old, so still in school and may not post as much during heavy load weeks. However i will mention it beforehand.

What's the point of asking these stupid questions.

Nabnab has made some stunning observations about my playstyle. Nobody has ever noticed that before, it seems.

haters gonna hate

#43 hermano gets snipage points. doesn't tell if he's town or scum though.

I don't feel like voting, what's the problem with that? Is it so bad if I don't want to vote randomly?

Yes. It's more detrimental. It's saying inside the crowd. Scummy scummy here.

Townie that she's keeping the stance.

Shinki's 19... yeah, not voting = not cool. Newb tell if anything though.

Unless Shinki took a long break, I won't take newb tells, kthx.

RedPanda's accusation in 31 almost looks too much like a serious vote to be considered RVS... giant waste of time either way. Yeah I think it's a serious vote, but I think it's just Panda being stupid.

The latter comes up a lot.

I believe you've seen that already though.

Lesson #1: The point of RVS is to get people to vote more and to spark discussion. You DON'T need to have a reason to vote.

After reading that, I believe that Shinki is town.

Being a rebel, methinks. Newbie? Yes. Super newbie? No.

That's why it makes sense.

More like a novice move.

#62. Let's keep the twitter hash tags to twitter please.

I'm not a grammar nazi, but that hurts me when I see that.

If you're not looking for someone to suspect, you should be. I guarantee you that scum have posted by now.

why are you being so nice?

My vote wasn't a random vote. and it wasn't a serious vote. Just a vote to get a reaction. I dont know why i have to explain it to you parama considering your experience

See?

i am always right.

Hey fuck you guys. Voting for someone that I don't even remember after 3 pages.

Fuck you.

Oh. He posts on Page 4.

Seems like a nice guy. So get off him.

Now.

Hey dank, nice of you to come to the rescue of redtail. Chainsaw defense perhaps?

Vote: Delta

I've noticed that only newbie townies and scum create Catch 22 situations like this in order to prove their case. Which one are you?

504 posts.

hmm.

i wonder.

is he a newbie? prob not.

Is he hardcore about mafia? Absolutely not.

This mistake should be expected. Hardcore is probably a term that was too harsh, but you get my point.

Is his points about Dank true? Yes.

It's really opportunistic in the long run.

Could it be a mistake? Yes. But I want to put a vote down.

So I will.

bitches.

What makes it weird?

Pretty sure the complimenting part makes it weird.

It's like this weird thing called....buddying.

Do you seriously believe that Panda cared whether VT was special or not? Come on, be real.

Unfortunately, I am sure he was.

haters gonna hate.

78 is good.

Town nabnab.

79 proves that Delta needs to die.

FFS I DIDN'T SIGN UP TO PLAY A GODDAMN NEWBIE GAME

Now I'm 100% sure Parama is scum. But we can get him tomorrow.

lol

98 seems like a hop.

But not a bad hop.

So null.

105 needs quotes.

All I see is "I can manipulate what others say, so I will"

so i honestly just lost all the shit caring about it.

106 proves it.

die die die.

119 is goood posting for a newbie.

I don't like the unvote, but I see uber town in 119. Unless it's an alt.

then that's fucking trolling.

lol red panda 120.

why did i not check the playerlist.

oh wait i did

and i saw parama and was like yay.

and forgot about everyone else.

ugh.

why is no one asking delta to claim?

fucking really? he's an idiot. he's not going to claim.

He's a scum idiot though. so stop thinking I'm calling him an idiot which would make him town.

kthx.

shinki and red panda argument.

lol

Long story short, it looks like I'm no longer at L-1 but if getting lynched is what it takes for you people to take my arguments seriously then so be it. I win with the town whether I'm alive or dead so whatever.

INCOMING PLEASE

PARAMA

DO A FATE SMASH AND MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

im going to start disregarding your reads now. your playing like a VI and its extremely antitown.

I AM THE ALL POWERFUL RED PANDA. FEAR MY INFLUENCE!!!!1111!11111

It's not in the town's best interest to question parama or his claim right now. The appropriate way to deal with it is probably to reserve all your thoughts on the situation until tomorrow. Everyone please do the same.

hey! someone is leading newbies! take care of the situation, thanks.

HermanoBro, why? There's really no point waiting until tomorrow for scumhunt.

lol

Hermano is actually one of the few sane people here. hes actually making more sense. Letme Help you understand. hes saying Lets Review the nightkills and then make a decision about paramas claim.

yeahhhhhh

he's not.

Hey Nabbb! I'm disappointed! In 166, I was almost

sure

you were going to call RP a VI!

oh well.

Awww.

#172!

you just lost that help the newbies status.

k thx for your help.

but you're fucking useless.

Did my claim read as serious to you?
Who are you to accuse me, scum?

You sound like you don't give a shit about the game, or you're scum, or both. Either way I'd be happy seeing you lynched.

PSSST

WE'RE AWARE THAT YOU DON'T WANT A WAGON ON YOU.

PSST

redtail is failing too.

god damnit.

parama is right. go listen to his advice.

harsh is it? yeah.

how correct is it? 100%.

@Parama: You're scum, so all the scumhunting is boring to you. You hadn't even read the game, you just checked in before to see if you had to do something. Suspicion is going your way so you finally decide to read and contribute. You blame the newbs for everything and have been riding on that excuse all game. That's suspicious behavior.

clapclapclap

now get off the stage. you suck.

After all, why did you lied?

I'M A PURPLE DRAGON.

DOES IT REALLY MATTER THAT I LIED?

Don't dodge my question like that.

Back to these novice tells.

I'm going to skim at this point.

losing caring points except if my wants are gotten.

213.



NOT EVEN LYING.

DELTA NEEDS ROPE NOW>

AND FAST>

YOU FUCKING

PIECES

FOSOFSA FPOASGPASKAIOGJSIOAJGSGIJOAAOJSGKNOAJKONS

OASJOGAJSIOGJOISGJOIOIJGIOJSAIOJGO

GHAHHH

231 is a good point, but hermano is as newbie as the others.

so no.

good try though. i like the effort.

HEY FUCK YOU GUYS.

IF I HEAR "LOL YOU'RE A NEWB" OUT OF ANY OF THE REAL FUCKING NEWBS, I'M GOING TO SHIT ON AND END YOUR LIFE.

I DARE YOU TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW SHITFUCKINGTASTIC THIS WALL IS.

I DARE YOU MOTHERFUCKERS.

THAT'S HOW PISSED I AM.

I've never ICed in a NEWBIE before. Jesus hell, man.

huehuehuehuehuehue

k guys so I'm back at the beginning.

Let's go over this really easily.

the correct fomatting. kk?

Italic=Town
Bold=Scum
nothing=null

HermanoBro

(4)- redtail896,

dank

,

Parama

,

charter

Parama

(2)- JoNo246, vijay2vasandani

DeltaWave

(1)- NabakovNabakov

Shinki

(1)-

RedPanda

charter (1)-

HermanoBro

Not Voting:

Hiraki

,

Shinki

, Painkiller,

DeltaWave

k so maybe i'm wrong on hermanos wagon.

but I'm not fucking giving up on Delta.

my newbie tells are telling me scumscumscumscumscumscumscum

SO DO IT.

OR I KILL YOU.

I need to look at my nullies now.

but I'll do that later.

when i lose my cool again.

Yawn.

You know what kiddies?

I'm fucking pissed off.

You want your Town Hiraki Savior?

You'll.

Fucking.

Get it.

Hey RedPanda, what about this guy? Lol some good scumhunting I see. Posts that keep saying that he's gonna post something and we're given this huge ass post that boils down to Delta is scum. Oh okay, great scumhunting Hiraki. If he always plays like this, fuck I don't know how I'm supposed to read this guy. There is no town motivation whatsoever.

[vijay2vasandani]

ok deal. We lynch you today. if you flip town. tomorrow hiraki as you wish. is that okay?

Game. Let's go. Lynch me today and then Hiraki tomorrow.

You know. You could start making a case against redtail and start asking him questions about his day 1 jumpy reaction. That might make me change my mind about you.

I don't find redtail scummy. When I read his posts I don't get the same feel as when I read Hiraki's.

[vijay2vasandani]

@ RedPanda: I don't do scum to town lists but my top two scum reads are Hiraki and Parama. On the other hand, I've got kdowns and Nab as pretty town in my head. As to lynching Parama and Hiraki, I would much rather lynch Hiraki first. Still if you guys are not sure I wouldn't mind getting lynched first, I'm pretty convinced Hiraki is scum.

VOTE: Hiraki

[vijay2vasandani]

VIJAY HELP LYNCH CHARTER
NOT HIRAKI
HIRAKI = TOWN
CHARTER = SCUM

See, I could be convinced if you actually gave a reason. How the hell is Hiraki's play town? Charter is null atm so how is he scum? Maybe if you stopped giving statements and start giving reasons..

[vijay2vasandani]

Redtail, the only thing I can see that is wrong with that post is that you ignored me.

[vijay2vasandani]

@vijay: you mean I didn't put you in blue? Actually, I'm surprised that's what surprised you.

No that would be stupid. When you said not all three scum would be on the wagon, then said that leaves Nab and Hiraki. I wasn't on the wagon, I was not voting.

[vijay2vasandani]

Lol then vote me RedPanda. If it wasn't going to be mylo tomorrow then id vote myself. And Hiraki will flip scum anyway so I'm fine with it.

[vijay2vasandani]

Just read the other game. Fuck. He flipped town. (can I say that?) Now I need to reread this game.
UNVOTE:

[vijay2vasandani]

VOTE: Parama

I'm not sure about Hiraki's meta anymore.

[vijay2vasandani]

@ Dank:
I'm going to respond to your questions instead of the quotes
1. The reason I do it is because I was convinced of Hiraki being scum at the time. Also, I wouldn't say "i told you so" I'm not that kind of person. Sorry if its anti town, I just get annoyed.
2. The reason I was voting Hiraki because of meta from my other game. However he flipped Town Doc in that game so I had no reason to vote him anymore. It wasn't really a PL for me. So yeah.

[vijay2vasandani]

Okay, I just read Parama's ISO and I probably should quit playing mafia. I do not remember why I thought Parama was scum. The closest thing I could get to a reason was because of his loljkclaim, but that's just stupid. I deserve to be killed just for that.

UNVOTE:

Sorry Parama and RedPanda. Will reread Charter.

[vijay2vasandani]

Okay just read Charter. While you guys might not really hold stock in what I say considering my two scumreads before this, I'm still gonna do this.

So, you give her good odds being scum based on what? Her not voting in the first post? I'm not quite clear on what the reasoning is here. And you didn't exactly give any.

She's worried about these "events". You know who would be worried about something like that? Scum who are afraid it will nail them and they won't see it coming.

I also don't like how she posts constantly, but has yet to do anything. Skating by.
Shinki, who do you feel is most suspicious right now?

The thing about the events just seems like a setup. Almost like he wants us to subconsciously be suspicious of Shinki who we know flipped town. I don't like how he takes what I believe to be a innocent comment and twists it around.

hey sup I haven't read closely since my last post with Shinki
charter when you read me wrong that tells me you're probably scum, FYI.

False

Good thing I'm a vig again.

and false.

Now I'm 100% sure Parama is scum. But we can get him tomorrow.

Two things with this. One, if you're sure the guy is scum, why tomorrow? Second, he's 100% scum because he said two things you think are false? Right.

I thought you already addressed them with "redtail and redtail supporters are scum. gg."?

Deltascum is caught, but i'm also curious why parama chooses now to claim. Charter, why is parama 100% scum? Exactly what kind of math have you been doing this game?

I've played with Parama a fair bit, and when we're both town, it's like we're connected at the brain. I'm town in this game (and it's obvious) and Parama is on a different wavelength.

The problem with this post is the need to state that he is obviously town. You don't state the obvious, therefore you stating that it is just makes you seem like you're trying too hard to convince everybody else.

Unvote, vote Hermano

This is where the cool kids are meeting.

Right, let's jump onto the mislynch while we can.

Next person who posts and doesn't vote Hermano or explain why they aren't is the first to die after he flips scum.

Call it scummy scare tactics if you want, it'll just dig your grave faster.

Lol keep at the mislynch. Ironic how he calls then scummy scare tactics and how Hermano flipped town.

If Hermano claims anything other than VT, he is lying. Why does he need to test the waters with his joke? If he's a real powerrole, he can claim that, doesn't have to worry about what others will think of it. He's trying to gauge whether or not we will believe him if he lies. At this point, it doesn't even matter what he claims, he will be making it up.

Right. So if he claimed an uncced PR we would still lynch him? This just seems like you want to get rid of a PR.

Well, I'm not unvoting.

unvote, vote JOno

lulz

Lol not unvoting, then unvoted in the next post.

Vote Parama

Hopefully we've weeded out all the idiots and now we can lynch scum.

And Vijay is still likely scum, but Parama is obvscum.

Or you could be just really happy that we are rid of decent PRs and don't have to worry so much as scum.


However despite all that, I'm not fully convinced. It's a gut feeling that charter is town for some reason. I don't know.

[vijay2vasandani]

I play mafia using gut just as much as evidence. Even if all the evidence points to somebody being mafia, yet I feel no inclination that they actually are, despite all that, I won't vote for them. If you play differently that's up to you guys. Charter while he has some considerable points against him, does not feel like mafia to me atm.

[vijay2vasandani]

Because I can see that he acts scummy. I see his actions are scummy, but my gut says he's town. I don't know if that's possible but yeah.

[vijay2vasandani]

Because that wasn't a case. I just pointed out posts where I believe charter may have sounded scummy. Basically what I'm trying to say is, yes there is some evidence that charter is scum, but gut tells me hd probably isn't.

[vijay2vasandani]

@Hiraki: Going off of 816, I'm seeing your town-read on Hermano as basically coming from your scum-read on Charter. Is this true? Otherwise the best I can gather is that you had a null-read on Hermano:

ISO 13: OMGUS.

Now see, here's where Charter should've said "hmm" and wondered if this was a scum OMGUS, or a pissed off OMGUS.

Because it's already obvious that Hermano was lying about his current reads with Parama, and with "easy targets".

Hmmm.

I wonder if this person might be newbtown. Newbscum is definitely possible, I'll admit that.

Likely?

LOL.

Why were you voting Delta D1 and Charter now?

In the Parama vs. Delta debate that was all over pg 34, I would side with Parama. Delta's case is essentially Hiraki is scum => Parama is scum (and I'll go along with that. There may be

something

to the idea that Hiraki's spam is somehow tastier than kdown's spam, but there's obviously not enough that Parama is willing to commit to any argument more serious than baldly asserting it. Plus, charter has a point about 751-5. There's definitely some unnatural defense going on in both cases.) BUT, if Hiraki is not scum, the rest of the argument doesn't follow and Parama is off the hook. This is yet another reason to be totally put off by the horse trading Delta and Charter do here.

List of people who have expressed some variation on the sentiment "Hiraki and Parama are my top suspects. I would be OK with lynching either one"
-charter (826)
-Delta (827)
-Vijay (829)
-kdowns (879)
Not a whole lot of analysis here, just something I thought was curious.

RedPanda likes to test reactions. Vijay is a total pushover. It's a match made in heaven. Observe Panda's 885-6, where he accuses Vijay of having no case on Parama and giving Charter special treatment. Like clockwork, Vijay comes back with 887-8: a total renunciation of his Parama vote and a perfunctory case on Charter that everybody (Vijay included) knows is crap. It's comical, but I'm still not sure if it's scummy. It's definitely a sign that Vijay isn't playing honestly; he's giving us the posts he thinks we want to see rather than posts that actually express what he's thinking. But again, this kind of extremely obvious waffling isn't good for getting mislynches or for staying under the radar. Over-cautiousness leans towards my newb-town profile. Newb-scum tend to be over-zealous (Hi Delta!)

sorry for being crap. I'll try my best to play better from right now.

Funny, Nab. That's basically my entire suspect pool. Sans vijay maybe.

So Parama, you suspect an uncced PR? This is referring to kdowns.

[vijay2vasandani]

And risk losing a PR? But I guess I see where this is coming from.

Anyway onto to better news,
VOTE: Charter

[vijay2vasandani]

Delta, the thing is that while you may have suspected Charter along with Parama and Hiraki, nobody else knew it. Your comments on how weak the cases were against charter shows us that you didn't really suspect him. Furthermore I skimmed your ISO and saw no inkling of this #3 suspicion on him. Thus this makes your jump even more so suspicious. Your defense doesn't really help because you just seem to say that everybody seems to go around misrepping you.

Aside from that, two things. One, I don't like how charter only votes for Delta when Parama and Dank point it out. It's almost as if Charter doesn't want to be called out for OMGUSing but once given the green light, goes forward with it. Secondly if Delta flips town I'm pretty convinced Charter is scum. The thing that scares is a weird double bluff in which to shake off accusations about bussing, charter reverses Delta's bus on him. Just a thought.

Delta, I think you should claim. This is an intent to hammer.

[vijay2vasandani]

Great, got ninja'd in what could have possibly been my only original thought of the game XD nah just messing

[vijay2vasandani]

Delta, you still haven't addressed my point about you not expressing any charter suspicion before that agreement of the case. I did not notice it when I skimmed your ISO. Your point about disagreeing with the reasoning but agreeing with the conclusion is valid, but I think you did not indicate any charter suspicion beforehand, which is why we wondered when you suddenly decided to agree with whoever it was that made you change your vote.

[vijay2vasandani]

VOTE: Deltawave

I still find him switching to Charter too opportunistic. Are we at LyLo?

[vijay2vasandani]

Hmm yeah. But we do get possible investigations going. Not sure now.

[vijay2vasandani]

VOTE: Deltawave

I still find him switching to Charter too opportunistic. Are we at LyLo?

There are two problems with that vijay.

(1) I said I'd be fine with either a charter or parama lynch, so switching my vote to charter is not opportunistic.
(2) You've been vote hopping all game so you shouldn't talk.

I don't like the idea of a No Lynch. But if there is an investigative role, and we do a No Lynch, then they better investigate me.

Going to read back a bit and put together some cases.

I was referring to you saying Charter was your third suspicion with no evidence of you having that line of reasoning before this.

[vijay2vasandani]

[b[ Vote: No lynch [/b]

Are we sure its mylo though?

[vijay2vasandani]

^ fail.

Vote: No lynch

[vijay2vasandani]

Lol JK?

Hiraki splain plz.

[vijay2vasandani]

Hey guys. Sorry for my even less than usual input, something popped IRL. At this point, I'm slightly inclined to believe Nab. I doubt mafia would use their RB to do the nightkill, losing their chance to block somebody. Plus, the breadcrumbing makes it mote believable, but could be forward thinking scum.

Question to Nab though. Why did you roleblock kdowns as town?

[vijay2vasandani]

Oh okay. I realised nab was speaking hypothetically.

Oh and I'm vt btw.

[vijay2vasandani]

And dank How can you even Believe he's

town

roleblocker. Atleast do some research before you throw this game. Check out all the mininormals. Look for roleblockers and their alignments. If you find a town roleblocker Look at the other town PR's.


Seriously How can you fucking Believe he's a town roleblocker in

This setup.

. Even NabNab's trying to say there's a mafia godfather or something to balance his role omfg.

Actually, deciding not to roleblock and using nab as the killer because they knew they could play it off may be an option, especially because after a vig and cop gone, they might have thought no more PRs existed. But see I'm waaaaayyy less likely to believe this over believing that RP, just because of the circumstances.

Oh clever way of inserting VI into my name. Totally original and extremely helpful.

[vijay2vasandani]

^ lol XD that's actually really funny XD

[vijay2vasandani]

Now

there's

a classic D4 votecount. Two claims locked in a mortal struggle and everybody else undecided. Makes me remember why I love this game.

@Hiraki:
N1: Hermano
N2: Delta
N3: Vijay

Also, I know this is venturing in to WIFOM territory, but if I were a goon looking to plant an escape-clause claim at the beginning of the game, why would I choose a role that's associated with scum far more than town? I knew this claim was going to be contentious if it ever came to light. That's why I breadcrumbed in the first place.

You could have been scum roleblocker which means that you laying down the foundations at the start will allow you to claim town RB. Also, how would you know your claim would be contentious? That just sounds like scum who knows their PR level.

[vijay2vasandani]

RP, I don't know if you did this already, but as a tracker can you give reasoning for your tracks?

[vijay2vasandani]

Okay. This is the hardest game I'm playing in atm.

See, the reason I was leaning onto Nab was because his thought process seems more well thought out. He had the breadcrumb and his targets made sense. Also, him choosing to do the kill instead of roleblocking didn't really make sense.

On the other hand RP's comments about shifting the lynch make sense. In any other day, this could be WIFOM but at what I assume is LyLo, there was no need.

As for the scumteam, its RP-Hiraki-dank or Nab-Delta-RT.
So yeah it basically boils down to RP against Nab today then its those imo.

[vijay2vasandani]

No Panda, this isn't fucking simple to town. Stop repeating that. I hope you would be questioning this claim as much as we are if you weren't the one making it.

redtail didn't hammer Nab. The only person who hasn't hammered yet and still possibly could is vijay (he doesn't seem to ever be online around this time, and there's a pretty high chance he's scum). One of you should unvote to be safe while we at least discuss redtail's ideas. Once that conversation is over, unless redtail convinces me of something new, I will put down the hammer. I want to have everything discussed today first so that we can have as much info as we can tomorrow.

Regarding the possibilities, I can see a Tracker + Bodyguard introduce an interesting dynamic. But, with a presumed 4 PRs, mafia

has

to have a PR, so whether tracker or roleblocker makes more sense in the setup depends on what PR (or PRs?) mafia has. That's how we can see if the game is balanced, and we sadly just dont have that info.

It's because I'm halfway across the world.


Anyway, I just wanna apologise for wasting space and playing like an unco. I'll try to do better next time. Cheers guys and well played scum.