Mini 1234: Masquerade Mafia [Game Over]

[ThAdmiral]

'sup

Just checking in. Will read thread tonight.

[ThAdmiral]

Wait, did I log on to the wrong forum? Is this some kind of weird ponycorn mafia playing site?

Srsly though, I still haven't read through the game. It's father's day though so it may have to be later tonight.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm seriously trying to read this game but every time I get on you've added like 4 more pages. I do have time today though so I will catch up and post thoughts.

[ThAdmiral]

Catchup post. Will comment on things that caught my attention.

Seriously so much pony stuff. What's the deal with that - are you all friends from some other mafia forum?

I will say that a pet peeve of mine is when people defend themselves with arguments such as:
"If I were scum, I would act like A. Instead, I acted like B. Therefor, I am not scum."
Any information that a player provides about their own hypothetical scum tendencies is utterly and totally useless.

I know where you are coming from, but sometimes they are telling just telling the truth.

So your gameplan is to just wait for somepony who you think is competent to start pushing the game in a certain direction?

I would actually suggest that less experienced players do this.

The show has elements that calls back to the '80 Loony Toons cartoon, which many young adults grew up with. Think of things like Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck & Road Runner. Then combine that with modern Flash technology (vector art) to get highly expressive facial animation. Add a sprinkle of community love between peers and producers; generating more content. Instant success!

I actually *ahem* watched an episode to see what all the fuss was about. And it was actually... pretty good. I assumed it was going to be a "this is so terrible so pretending to like it will be funny" thing going on with you guys, but now I'm convinced your genuine fans.

I'm going to echo the sentiments of theamateur here, however, and say a voting bloc of all the ponies (plus their strongest townreads) is not only going to be very big, it will almost certainly contain scum. It could still work, mind, as the scum would assumedly have to go along with the choice of the bloc regardless.

Also, town voting blocs always have a scum in them
VOTE: tarsonisocelot for not knowing that after 8 completed games

This is 100% incorrect. As mentioned before even if they do sometimes have scum in them the voting bloc is designed to force them to vote the will of the bloc, therefore rendering their scum-vote useless. (however it is also useless for analysis purposes as well, so there's always 2 sides of the coin)

... Processing ...

Rampage was talking about mass ponycide. I told him it was past the randomness stage and trying to do so otherwise is antitown behavior.

I don't take kindly to liars.

You deflected to Albert B. Rampage for his "trolling" in Post 43, and now yer claiming ya were referring to the "mass ponycide" Albert B. Rampage trotted out in Post 82?

Incorrect: theamateur was responding to the point about him talking about sk's. That's how I read it.

In fact I think there are too many inconsistencies for me to let this pass
VOTE: theamateur

This I don't like. It really looks like you asked theamateur a question that you weren't going to like the answer to no matter what he said. Imo he answered as truthfully as possibly - he said he didn't have any strong reads but he put forward the things that did stand out most to him. At this stage in my read through I don't have any strong reads so I can completely sympathise with him, but this is definitely the first thing I really haven't liked. You have basically badgered him enough to justify your vote which so conveniently happens to be on the biggest wagon.

My question was who was scummy, yes it wasn't phrased exactly in that way, and I've only just realised that maybe you misunderstood

So can you summarize why you are voting thamature if that no longer applies?

This.

If he had of answered my question in his post I would have unvoted in my next post, I'd still like his scum reads and reasons behind them

=don't want to get off the juicy wagon just yet.

vote: monk

Guthrie is null. Tarson tried to make a voting bloc out of all the ponies, not suretown people. Besides, getting a town read after about 4 pages is really hard pressed. Null-scum, but scummiest here

So the three or so next commonest posters after yourself haven't contributed anything.noteworthy?

How did I know this was going to happen. He gives his reads as you asked and then you find something else to nitpick on to justify keeping your vote on him.


At bottom of page 6 and I've run out of time for now.

Like theamateur, rainbowdash and beck for town, and monk for scum.

[ThAdmiral]

Sorry for my general lack of activity. I've been kept really busy recently with irl stuff. I also didn't expect this game to be so damn active! I should be able to completely catch up by this weekend, in the mean time I'm going to keep chipping away a few pages at a time.

Continuing from page 7.

when we last left I wasn't liking monk for his attacks on theamateur.

pretty much straight away monk unvotes. Ok. Not sure if backing off, or genuinely doesn't think theamateur is scum any more.

-While we're on the subject, remember that there's another player who lurks, whose avatar is green and I forget his name. He's only posted like twice, once to confirm and once to say he would read (or something like that).

Lol, I'm pretty sure that's me!

I think monk is town. His reads are decent and his play is good, he does actually try to point out suspicious parts and dig in on them. The misunderstanding was just a misunderstanding due to my failure of not being a stuckup prick in front of a serious question.
Also, I just realized that you are being a friedmaker here. I don't know how to react to that.

Ok, I don't really get the stuckup prick bit, but ok.

And as far as I can tell about RD regarding being something of a "friendmaker" (which is a great word) she is playing to her town meta.

@monk - After the misunderstanding, what is your view on theamature?

He's leaning town

Interesting. Pretty big turnaround if you ask me. A bit TOO big for my liking.

yes at becks #167.

Tarsonis in #168 puts up basically the exact same case against the weak target albert as monk did earlier without referencing it. Don't like.

Fine I'll spell it out, I'm pressure voting atm in order to get the town on track, theamatuer will hopefully in this case either start hunting or get a noose.

IGMEOY theamatuer

What? Now who's flip-flopping?

I had him in the lowest of my town reads. Then Tarsonis pointed out that he was flipfloping.

VOTE: theamatuer
Continuing to not adequately scum hunt.

Riiiiiiiight.

-Thadmiral, not digging his procrastination. Two posts so far, both claiming that he'll get to the thread later in the day. It still hasn't happened. No es bueno.

I know. I am disappoint with myself.

right now isn't the time to be going after a lurker, let the mod deal with those people.

Yeah! Leave the lurkers alone, man!

It's nowhere close to town alliance.

To be fair I think there could be a good town alliance, just not the one that has been proposed: you, rainbowdash and glados. And possible subgenius but it would be safer if he were left out.

A few pages fly by. Rampage steps in to the picture. Votes theamateur? Methinks he might just be stirring the pot for now.

It seems theamateur is actually serious about sk hunting? What is this I don't even?

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

I've read this a few times, and I still can't figure out what it means. In fact, I have a headache now, although that might be from Whisker's avatar.

Hands down funniest post of the thread so far.

Bottom of page 12 now and I'll leave it there till tomorrow night.

[ThAdmiral]

Continue from page 14

4.)

Rainbowdash, I love ya, but yer really startin’ to sound like a broken apple cart this game – readin’ yer posts, ya keep hoofin’ ‘round the same things. It’s feelin’ like yer putting on an act to look like yer being thoughtful and all, but it’s not feelin’ real ta me.

Disagree. As I mentioned it looks like her town meta to me. Admittedly I've only been in the one game with her.

Some douche who's been avoiding the game posts. His names Tha... oh.

Tarson, you just said he isn't mafia but are voting him. Explain how this makes sense?

The goal is to lynch mafia, you clearly said he isn't mafia, yet you vote him?

vote: tarson

I think this might be a reading comprehension fail. I mean I don't love tarson's vote either, because she doesn't seem all that convinced by it herself, but she didn't say that.
I'm keeping an eye on it. If it is just for pressure, fine. If, like monk, theamateur responds positively and the vote stays for a stupid justified reason then tarsonis shoots up my scum chart.

What's interesting to me is that both ThAdmiral and Charlie came to theamateur's rescue.

I don't think I'm coming to his rescue; it's more that I think out of the two of monk and theamateur monk is way more likely to be mafia. Theamateur is being beligerant, monk is being scummy. Vis-a-vis votes should be on monk instead.

Everypony on the theamateur wagon-- what if I hammered right now?

This question is terrible and pointless. Sounds like you're planning to judge reactions to see if you could get away with it.
What you should be asking if you're town: "do I think theamateur is scummy enough to hammer?". If you genuinely think yes, then go ahead.

theamateur claims vanilla town.

bottom of page 14. Stopping there for the evening. Should have time again tomorrow. (gradually creeping my way back!)

[ThAdmiral]

Edit: that should say continue from page 13 at the top.

[ThAdmiral]

A question for ThAd if he ever manages to catch up, what's the difference between belligerent and scummy?

I'm not caught up but belligerent is not answering questions/being unhelpful, scummy is doing things that show a scum motivation.

[ThAdmiral]

Okie fucking dokie.

I'm going to go hard today and tomorrow and really try to be caught up by monday night. I reckon I've got a good chance unless you put on another ridiculous spurt of pages.

Continuing from page 15

whiskers 358 is pretty hilarious - trying to set up an all pony endgame. But as sub points out just after that's totally playing against your win condition. Funnily enough this gets town points for me. Would a scum admit that? Maybe, but I think less likely.

I don't like rainbowdash's case on theamateur all that much in 374. He points out a lot of weird stuff that theam has done, a lot of stuff he doesn't understand, but not a lot of stuff that has scum motivation. The one thing that arguably does is the attack of the voting bloc, but I've seen town attack them before if they've had bad experiences with them in the past, and theam seems to be under the impression that all voting blocs always have scum on them, or something.

page 16

Beck continues to be awesome. I don't care if that sounds like buddying, he has pretty much constantly said what I've been thinking as I've read through the game. He better fucking be town, because there is no way in hell I'm supporting a lynch on this guy.

theamateur's response to RD's case in 396 is good. Seems reasonable.

Whiskers playing now. Looking good too. Asking some good questions near the bottom of the page.

page 17

I just have some problems pushing monk right now.

There are some posts of his like the most recent one egging on Whiskers to vote him that I see as coming from town a whole lot more then scum

, especially at a juncture such as this one where the game is in a very fluid state.

Disagree, I've seen this from scum. It's mind games, because it seems town. It worked on you for example.

though since I'm currently on of the competing wagons might I suggest Beck take my place in the bloc, or subgenius, this should be dependent on what tarsonis and RD think though

This is more of the "come on, lynch me!" stuff. Basically it's "look how compliant and townie I'm being".

Whiskers what exactly do you hope to get out of this question, not to mention this might be a better one to have asked at the start of the game, I do not look kindly on trying to bring back RVS/RQS.

This is actually terrible. I skimmed over it the first time I saw it, but on reflection this is really bad mudslinging. It is completely twisting the act of asking a single question in to "trying to bring back the rvs/rqs". This seems opportunistic and is important to note because if monk flips scum I believe this more or less confirms whiskers as town.

Whiskers playstyle shift noted.
Rainbowdash's defensive responses noted.
VOTE: Whiskers

I don't get this. The shift has been entirely for the better imo.

btw, this is the 2nd time I have seen somebody being accused, not really defending themselves or questioning the people voting them, the first time was a scum flip. I can't link the game cause it is ongoing but this just adds more fuel to my fire that monk is most likely scum.

To be fair theam is even more guilty of this.

Page 18

Why are you trolling albert? I want to believe you are town and have a good reason for all this, but I grow less confident this is the case. Lucky for you there are better targets at the moment.

tarsonis 440 is bad. a) reaaallllllly weak reason to vote whiskers. Essentially a policy vote and a terrible one at that since whiskers has since changed her style. b) sets up a get-out-of-jail card for when monk flips scum.
Pretty sure they're scum together.

Page 19

I don't vote to look town. I vote to lynch scum.

I really like this line.

Guthrie I'm liking as well. New super-duper town team: beck, whiskers, guthrie. Probably theamateur as well.

RD: I'm sorry to say this but you seem to be completely biased towards your pony friends. Please try to look at them impartially. I think if you do you will see what me and others like beck/guthrie do.

Page 20

However you say that you don't know or can't pinpoint scum on my wagon. You also refuse to acknowledge any of your other scum reads,

you're tunneling hard muffin

.

Mudsling. He just spent the entire last page saying why he thought tarsonis was probably scum.

page 21

I like a lot in Glados 515 including:

1.)

Rainbowdash, whaddya think of monk’s reaction to his wagon?

Personally – and I ain’t wordin’ this quite to mah likin’ – I’m feelin’ like his recent posts are designed to elicit doubt on his wagon. Now, yes, I know a point o’ defendin’ oneself is ta elicit doubt. But it ain’t feelin’ altogether natural here. Like he’s buckin’ up dust more than he’s trying to clear it.

Post 428 is what really got my bells ringin’, fer what it’s worth.

and

5.)

GLaDOS, need input on Rainbowdash. Please.

‘fraid I don’t have an illuminating ‘pinion on that pony. She is purdy much smack-dab null for me, though (like I’ve alluded to with my point concernin' her repetition) I have a tingly feelin’ her posts are a mite bit contrived. I sure-as-sugar

want

her to be Town, though.

Genuine stuff and shows a looking deeper in to things than I imagine scum would do. You are officially back in my super-duper town group glados!

I don't agree with RD's case in 516. Essentially I don't think whisker was implying monk would flip town, and although whiskers saying they didn't want to get on the tarsonis wagon immediately could be interpreted as worrying about self-image it begs the question why would whiskers as scum admit that? Sort of defeats the point doesn't it? I tend to think of that sort of over-revealing of the inner monologue to be a slight town tell.

Okay calling it a night here. Bottom of 21.

I'm coming. I'm closing in, closing the gap bit by bit.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAd needs to catch up ASAP. Personally, if he doesn't make any progress, he moves to null-scum. Otherwise, null-town.

[ThAdmiral]

Continuing with the read.

Top of 22

Very simple. Town plays consistently because they have no need to pretend to do stuff like scumhunt. Mafia have all the resasons to play according to the feel of the game, needing a shift in playstyle. This so happens to be the basis of meta in scumhunting. Whiskers made this shift. Is this scummy, you ask? I think so, yes; but as I just said I'm swayed by the words of GLaDOS (deadly neurotoxin is deadly).

That's one of my core principles when playing the game of Mafia. The other is "succitness is protown".

I like this post and what it is driving at i.e. shifts in play are indicative of scumminess. Although in whiskers case I feel it is a bit different, as it was more of a decision to stop playing so much in character, and not based on the game state.

In conclusion, my switch from roleplaying and trolling to hard playing is very scummy and wrong, and Albert B. Rampage is town.

Touche, though.

@ tarsonis 530: you keep saying you are voting whiskers because what she did was against the town win condition and anti-town, that makes sense. However you also claim you think that whiskers is not town, with no explanation as to why. Why do you think whiskers is not town?
Note: if you answer it is because she was acting in an anti-town way you will have confirmed yourself as scum in my eyes and I won't rest until you're dead.

Beck 532 - osnap! good pick up.

rampage starts to get wagoned. It was bound to happen eventually. Interested to see the results. No reaction so far.

Page 23

Albert speaks...

Page 24

stuff happens...

Page 25

People jump off albert for some reason. Monk continues to look like scum.

People are worried about albert making it to lylo. Not going to happen.

Page 26

The waves I'm getting from ThAdmiral are good. Your goddamn slow play is forgivable (kind of) because you are reading the thread (eventually) and posting stuff. Might want to consider replacing out because the difference in your pacing and our pacing is Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis much. Just a suggestion though, not gonna pressure you into it.

I considered it but decided not to do it for three reasons.

1) I've never replaced out before and don't plan on starting now.
2) it's sort of fun because I feel like I've been dropped off the main field in, like, the tour de France and am chasing you guys down slowly but surely.
3) you clearly need me to help you lynch monk

Page 27

Charlies town to scum list in 653 is bizzare.
Abr at 3?
tarsonis at 4?
beck at 10?
whiskers at 12?
Also I really shouldn't be 2, but I'll take that one.

1. You don't think your plan would back fire
2. Why do you assume there is? Also why do you assume the NK role would take out mafia? Why assume period?
3. A wagon formed on you because of your play, if you are town, it isn't nonsense. Why should you be trusted to have your way when you have done anything to earn it. I've provided plenty of good reasons why monk is scum and I didn't get my way.
4.
5. Your enjoyment shouldn't affect the enjoyment of others which it has.
6. You agree with sub, yet you are guilty of it. Hypocrite much?

I disagree with everything except 4. which raises an interesting point.

He is trolling. But to be fair to him, he is trolling well.

@ charlie 668: do you think ABR is clever enough to use the "reckless = town" meta as a scum player? I think he is for the record.

Page 28

stuff happens...(including ABR bringing up his wifomy soft claim thing again)

Page 29

ABR comes out of his shell. Attacks beck. *facepalm*

Page 30

Now he's doing fucking Pbpas. Seriously? Why are you wasting your time doing it on beck? I thought you said you already caught scum with theamateur?
For the record: the case on beck is not convincing.

Omg, of course monk jumps right on.

Rampage is an disgrace that should be policy lynched for not only the genocide jokes(which no sane person should make, IMO) but for trolling and not helping the town at all. He panics at l-1 then claims it was a trick. Not to mention his reasons are essentially the same at the beginning of the game

This just appears to be a policy lynch in a very bad disguise, which is approximately the same thing that everypony who voted ABR threw out there. I am going to be interested to see what theamature as well as everypony on the ABR wagon does now that he has finally decided to contribute, although I still stand by my point of what he was doing was stupid.

What? It's not in disguise. He says pretty clearly that albert should be policy lynched.


Up to page 31. Told you all I was coming. Like freight train. You can't stop me!

[ThAdmiral]

Wait, has there seriously been a lynch?

Fucking hell.

[ThAdmiral]

You're town aren't you.

[ThAdmiral]

Hi. Haven't had a chance to post in a while since it's been night like forever and as far as I'm concerned day two never even happened it went by so quick.

Anywho, I'm all read up. I would also like to express surprise at Monk's non-scum flip. Beck, with the vig claim, remains heavily town in my eyes. One question: why albert (I'm assuming you were responsible for albert) n1 instead of monk? I know abr was being a dick and all that, but I felt monk was a better shot at scum than him.

I find it very unlikely that glados/rainbow is the scumteam. This is mainly because subgenious was killed n1 and his townreads were tarsonis, glados and rainbow. Talk about wifom if you must, be there is simply NO reason any sane scum would kill off someone who had the ENTIRE SCUMTEAM as town. No way. In fact the chances of glados and rainbow being scum independent of each other is fairly slim, but still possible.
As far as sub's scumreads he had me and guthrie, so I'm thinking guthrie/mist beauty is a good shout.
Whiskers is unlikely scum due to the fact she went pretty hard after tarsonis. Could be bussing. But I'm not going to assume that for now.

vote: mist beauty

If I had to guess the scum now it would be mist and one of glados/rainbowdash, leaning rainbowdash.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral, what's your read on me?

You were anti-monk day 1 which I liked, but since monk was town that can't really be considered a towntell. You also attacked tarsonis pretty hard, so that is a towntell.
Your read on theamateur changed quite a bit through the day:
- "getting bad vibes" from him in 154
- voting for him in 215, to unvoting in 266
- saying you "doubt monk against theamateur" in 319
- asking for reactions if you hammered in 333
- saying you "won't hammer. The case against you, I don't feel it" in 342
- to not mentioning theamateur at all for a while
- to then voting theamateur which got him to -1

Actually in retrospect that actually looks really bad. Can you please run me through why you voted for theam late in the day when there was still the possibility of Monk (who was one of your main suspects) getting lynched instead?

my day 1 kill was sub, it wasn't monk because he was the most likely person to be lynched day 2, the cop claiming guilty kind of ruined that. I didn't see any need to kill the person who was the most likely to be lynched.

night 2 I killed him because I didn't want to waste another day on him, he was scum to me 100% and I still can't believe he flipped town.

Wait, you killed sub? Wtf dude? He was a big town read!

i believed tarsons claim because I have been in a game with mafia/sk/vig before

I felt that rampage was the obvious target n1 and if there was all 3 that could explain the lack of 1 kill. tbh I almost killed rampage myself but I decided to think logically and not with my emotions, he was soft claiming a PR so there was no chance I was going to risk it.

I went with Subs because he had been in the back of my mind almost all game, there was something about him I didn't trust and I even called him scum towards the end of the day

Ok, question above is answered. Still. There were better options. Tarsonis for one, although that turned out ok in the end.

Btw I forgot charlie was playing. My scum reads are guthrie/miss beauty and charlie, mainly by POE.

If both of us are very unlikey scum... how are we the pick for being scum with Guth-Rep?

POE. I liked whiskers for town over you/glados, but then again I forgot about charlie. In fact...

unvote

vote: charlie

[ThAdmiral]

We need to hear more from Charlie, the admiral, and the new person.

'sup

[ThAdmiral]

Was unexpectedly without internet for a few days. Will post later today.

[ThAdmiral]

The only person who bugs me is TheAdmiral, who looking back seemed to agree with basically everything I've said. Is he that awesome or is it buddying, I don't know.

I'm really that awesome!

Seriously though my town read on you stems largely from the fact that you pretty much said exactly what I was thinking consistently as I was reading through the game. I felt certain that someone else who came to the same conclusions I did must be town.

Guthrie I feel is a good lynch today. Assume he is lynched and flips scum, who do I shoot tonight?

Well charlie is technically my second pick, but I've been liking him since he started talking again. Basically IDK and you're going to have to make your own mind up if he flips scum.

[ThAdmiral]

Basically what I have been trying to say is there is obvious distancing between tarson and whiskers, those 2 are together.

I just don't think it sounds like distancing to me.

Admiral is going to get lynched if he doesn't start playing the game, if he doesn't post much today, regardless of a flip I will vig kill him out of pure frustration.

All good bro. Have stable internet access now and I ain't going anywhere. Should be able to post a few times a day.

[ThAdmiral]

I realise people other than beck have said stuff, but there's nothing I feel I need to directly respond to.

As far as charlie, one of the things that is making me wonder whether he is town is the fact that he isn't going after me. I feel that would be an easy route for scum (going after me), and I wonder why he isn't doing it if he is indeed scum.

[ThAdmiral]

Don't think I'm voting mist right now so...

vote: mist

[ThAdmiral]

lynch mist, shoot charlie.

gogogo!

[ThAdmiral]

I don't even think I'll shoot anymore even if we lynch scum cause I'm not sure who to shoot.

For the record I think you should shoot someone regardless of flip today.

[ThAdmiral]

so if we lynch scum, I think it's best to shoot, if we lynch town there is no chance in hell I am shooting.

In this situation I'd rather the kill be entirely controlled by town (i.e. you shooting), rather than half controlled by town, half by scum (i.e. voting for a lynch of someone which scum also vote for).

It's hardly reckless, it is in fact the safest option.

ThAd, do you have anything to say about the game, about any of the players, about anything before you get lynched?

Not really. We're all waiting for the person we are most likely going to lynch to post.

[ThAdmiral]

Yes, but why are

you

most likely to lynch her?
Or rather, Why is she the one

you

are most likely to lynch.

Mainly process of elimination, but also the person with the most associative tells/behaviour regarding tarsonis.

ThAdmiral, could you please, oh, I don't know; scumhunt some? Or at least pretend to scumhunt? Or have you already made up your mind that Mist Beauty is the lynch for Today?

I have already made up my mind that Mist Beauty is the lynch for today. Yes.
I have no interest in talking around in circles like beck is doing, changing his scumreads multiple times in the process. I actually don't think it's helpful. Unless someone can come up with an amazing insight at this point (unlikely) I am not going to be changing my vote.

Your latest slew of posts haven't been very useful. I especially didn't like this one:

In this situation I'd rather the kill be entirely controlled by town (i.e. you shooting), rather than half controlled by town, half by scum (i.e. voting for a lynch of someone which scum also vote for).

It's hardly reckless, it is in fact the safest option.

Still seems reckless to me, no matter how much padding you apply to it.

I'm not trying to trick you or anything. Fact is it's the safest option

for town

.
Here are the numbers:

Currently - 5 town, 2 scum

beck shoots

if we lynch town - 4 town, 2 scum
scum kills town - 3 town, 2 scum

beck shoots - has 50% chance of hitting scum, kill decided 100% by town (i.e. beck)

if we lynch scum - 5 town, 1 scum
scum kills town - 4 town, 1 scum
beck shoots - has a 25% chance of hitting scum, kill decided 100% by town

*note - numbers assume beck will shoot someone different from scum. Since scum will probably kill beck this is more or less definite.

beck doesn't shoot

if we lynch town - 4 town, 2 scum
scum kills town - 3 town, 2 scum

we lynch - we have a 50% chance to lynch scum

technically

, which is only 60% controlled by town. In reality, however, if only one town person votes the wrong person scum can both quickly jump on and win the game. I can't remember how to do compound percentage odds like that but basically it is quite a bit higher than 50% that town will lose in this situation.

if we lynch scum - 5 town, 1 scum
scum kills town - 4 town, 1 scum
might as well shoot here, we're in good position.


Bolded bits are the important bits.

[ThAdmiral]

why is mist the one I want to lynch?

I have already explained this, laziness doesn't help you look more town

I think this was directed at me.

[ThAdmiral]

No I meant whiskers question was directed at me, not you.

[ThAdmiral]

And I missed the admiral's other post. The problem with having me decide the game winner or loser isn't the best idea given I'm 0 for 2 right now.

I believe in you.

[ThAdmiral]

You sound a mite bit like Mist Beauty, the way she came in here all rarin' ta catch up, an' then she up an' disparated.

I don't see how applejack could have "disparated" 10 minutes after posting?

[ThAdmiral]

I guess we're still waiting for the replacements.

[ThAdmiral]

Then again, Charlie and Rainbowdash could easily convince ThAdmiral or probably even Applejack to lynch me-- game over, scumwins.

No they won't. Well I can't speak for applejack but there is no way they are convincing me to lynch you.

@ beck: these are my suggestions but I strongly fucking suggest them.
- if mist flips scum shoot who you want
- if mist flips town shoot charlie as he's pretty much confirmed scum at this point
- we lynch rainbowdash tomorrow
- we win

[ThAdmiral]

vote: charlie

[ThAdmiral]

Per Raindowdash's request, I'm a vanilla townie. Since ThAdmiral's here, I'm gonna go ahead and popcorn it ta him.

Innocent townie. Charlie next.

Charlie and ThAdmiral, if the both of ya can either summarize or link me ta the cases ya have on each other, that'd be right helpful. Thanks in advance.

He hammered mist after she had claimed bodyguard. He didn't give her time to respond to his accusation that she should have protected the cop. As it turned out she had a perfectly understandable reason why she didn't. It is clear to me he saw a chance to hammer the doc and get away with it and took it.

I don't believe beck didn't shoot. Although if he was going to shoot whiskers it's probably for the best.

[ThAdmiral]

Tarsonis would have gone down anyway IMO. She had already copped a lot of heat by the end of day 1.

[ThAdmiral]

fos: ThAdmiral for lurking mostly. Let me ISO him, but mark my words, lurkers will make us lose this.

If we lose it won't be because of lurkers, it will be because of terrible decisions. Theamateur was a terrible lynch. Subgenius was a terrible kill. Hammering mist was a terrible move as well. A terrible move for town but a great move for scum.

[ThAdmiral]

Reads: Charlie is scum.

I believe whiskers is town.
I have a nagging feeling that rainbowdash is scum but it doesn't make sense that she isn't gunning for my lynch. It has enough support, wouldn't be hard to pull off and would win the game for scum. I'm leaning town.

Applejack scum by poe, since she's the leftover.

[ThAdmiral]

What, behind everypony else? As usual?

Is this at me?

[ThAdmiral]

Not your's. I don't think applejack is going down today. I really think it is out of Charlie and I today.

@ applejack: I'm on my phone now. Will answer at greater length when I get home. Preview: I opposed town lynches and called out scum (tarsonis). I've been wrong as well but I'm only human.

[ThAdmiral]

Charlie, ThAdmiral, why hasn't scum hammered one of you?

Because one of us is scum. *BOOM*

(hint: it's charlie)

@ applejack: actually my summary of why I'm town is pretty good. If you need me to elaborate, ask.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral has been so

presumptuous

with that last slew of posts, its not even funny.

Ooooh. Them's fighting words.

[ThAdmiral]

Whiskers: who are you leaning towards?

[ThAdmiral]

I'm not v/la but there's nothing to post about.

[ThAdmiral]

Rainbow is right in that basically you have to decide between charlie or me today. If you choose right then we can look in to who the last scum is, with all the more information a scum lynch and night kill will provide. If you choose wrong it will be moot.

[ThAdmiral]

I can't. As soon as I vote wrong-- you or Charlie, RainbowDash will swoop down for the hammer and good game over, scum.

That means you think both I and charlie are town. Is this true?

[ThAdmiral]

Whiskers: I can make a case against charlie if you want, but I also don't see how that is going to make up your mind for you. I also want to know what you think independently of what we say about each other which is essentially going to come down to "no I'm not scum, HE'S SCUM!!".

I plan to do a vote count analysis though, so you can hang out for that if you want.

[ThAdmiral]

Day one substantial wagons:

1.

theamateur

- 4 (Rainbowdash;

Guthrie

; GLaDOS;

subgenius

)

2.

monk

- 5 (

Beck

;

Guthrie

; GLaDOS; Rainbowdash;

theamateur

)

3.

theamateur

- 6 (

subgenius

;

monk

;

Albert B. Rampage

; Rainbowdash; GLaDOS;

tarsonisocelot

)

4.

monk

- 4 (

Guthrie

;

theamateur

; ThAdmiral;

Beck

)

5. Whiskers - 5 (

monk

; Rainbowdash; Charlie;

Albert B. Rampage

;

tarsonisocelot

)

6.

theamateur

- 4 (GLaDOS;

Albert B. Rampage

; Rainbowdash;

monk

)

7.

Albert B. Rampage

- 4 (

theamateur

;

tarsonisocelot

;

subgenius

;

Beck

)

8.

theamateur

- 4 (GLaDOS; Rainbowdash;

subgenius

;

tarsonisocelot

)

9.

monk

- 4 (Whiskers;

Guthrie

; ThAdmiral;

Beck

)

10.

theamateur

- 7 (GLaDOS; Rainbowdash;

subgenius

;

tarsonisocelot

;

monk

; Whiskers;

Albert B. Rampage

)

Day 3:

11.

Mist Beauty

- 4 (Rainbowdash; ThAdmiral;

Beck

; Charlie)

Analysis

- It looks like rainbow and glados vote together a lot, but that is mainly because glados kept her vote on theamateur most of the day, and rainbow voted theamateur a few times.
- 3 in particular, however, would indicate that there is probably one scum, and not more than one scum, from rainbowdash and glados. Firstly there is probably one as it is unlikely that a wagon on town would have gotten to 5 without a scum on it yet, and secondly there is probably not more than one as for that to be true all three scum would have had to vote on the same wagon one after the other.
- I have to admit 4 doesn't make me look good. I'm the only unknown on a town wagon that got up to 4.
- I also have to admit that 9 and 10 don't make whiskers look good. 9 because, from where I'm standing, whiskers is the only unknown on a town wagon that got up to 4, and 10 because if whiskers is town it meant the last three votes on a day ending lynch were all town votes.

I still think, however, that the scummiest thing anyone has done was the quickhammer of mist by charlie. In any case as we've discussed one of him or I have to be scum. In which case I would lean towards glados/applejack as the last scum.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral:

I want you to go into screaming foals, if need be. I need your

case

, because without it, I'm voting for you.

Take some responsibility. You are ultimately going to have to make the decision of who to vote. If you want to cop out and vote me by default because I haven't laid a case before your feet that's your problem.
As I've asked previously: what do you think about me and charlie?

ThAdmiral:

your VCA was pretty useless. Why do any of the wagons give you any reads? It's like you're working on the premise that any living players were on a wagon will look scummy-- hay, consider that that's the only kind of players left.

To be honest: yes my VCA was pretty useless. I was hoping it would show something more concrete, but it didn't.

[ThAdmiral]

Still here. Feeling a bit ill though. Will post later when my head isn't spinning.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm firmly of the opinion that ThAdmiral is Mafia; & believe that one of yourself/Rainbowdash is Mafia (lopsided content making reads difficult) with Whiskers as wildcard (many points to ask)

This is funny for a couple of reasons:
1 - you've said words to the effect a few times but it shouldn't be "opinion" at this stage that I'm scum. There's one vote on each of us and if we were both town scum would have double voted for the win so one of us has to be mafia. Since I

know

I'm town, I

know

you're scum.
2 - You've listed everyone as possible scum.

That means that the pair is Charlie and ThAdmiral. What I'm hung up on is why they'd be pullin' a gambit where they bus each other in LyLo.

This is ridiculous. I'm just saying I would never do that if I were scum.

I am taking responsibility. Since we seem to be going 1/1, I will need to vote between you. You don't want me to vote you? Then take some responsibility. It's your job to lay a case at my feet. That's your fucking problem.

What do I think of you? I think you're lazy and don't really care about the game. I think Charlie is trying, at least, but that's wifom, since maybe she's scum trying to look town by trying.
But you're not even trying to look town by trying to play the game. you're being useless.

You had all that great insight while you were catching up, why don't you have anything now?

Ok, you're right. I have been lazy. The problem is, case wise, I didn't really have charlie as a scum read before he hammered mist yesterday. Now I am in a position where I KNOW he is scum so I've sort of felt me going back and building a case against him is redundant. But like I said, you are right; instead of being useless I should be working to convince you to vote him instead of just hoping you'll vote him.
So I did look back briefly and here are a few things I found:
1. Charlie voted you for the ridiculous reason of changing your playstyle (post 406). As I said at the time the shift was entirely for the better. Completely contrived reason to vote someone.
2. Charlie's list of town to scum was strange to say the least (post 653). First of all there was little to no explanation. Second of all it gave the number one spot away for "honory" reasons to Glados, it had perennial catch up merchant (i.e. myself) at 2, trolling ABR at 3, scum tarsonis at 4, obvtown beck at 10, malpascp at 11 for the cop-out reason of lurking, and yourself at 12 (the bottom spot) for "playstyle, anti-wincon, vote-patterns".
3. He hammered mist after she claimed doc. I don't believe no one else see's this the way I do. As soon as that happened I had charlie pegged as obvscum.

If this is not enough I'll do a proper ISO and see if there are any links between him and tarsonis. Them both voting you day 1 for shit reasons is certainly one off the top of my head.

For the record, I would have voted ThAdmiral. I agree with Whiskers that his suggestion that Beck shoot regardless of how Mist Beauty flipped was reckless. It's one thing to trust the kill to someone who is 100% town, but Beck was not going to have anything to keep him in check during the Night phase; when the game is decided by a group, the composition of the group isn't guaranteed, but there's less chance of the townies in the group screwing up due to checks and balances. This probably makes more sense in my head than written, but that's how I see it. Furthermore, Beck made it clear that he wanted to shoot Whiskers; if Whiskers is town -- and that's my belief at the moment -- ThAdmiral is scum for making this suggestion to Beck.

I'd explain AGAIN why it is still the most logical thing to do based on simple maths, but you're the last scum so I can't be bothered.

I don't believe beck didn't shoot. Although if he was going to shoot whiskers it's probably for the best.

Something I'm curious about: Are you saying you think Beck tried to shoot last night, on Night 3?

No. I'm saying I wish he did, unless he was going to shoot whiskers.

Basically proving im not scum.

Unless you're scum with charlie, but I doubt it.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral came to make an actual post.

Why?

Is this at me? If so I realised I do care about this game and that I would have to put in more effort if I wanted to help us win.

3. For the record, doc isn't the same as bodyguard. You don't think my reasons were clear enough but I do. Her claim was shady.
i) Replace into protective role slot during Night
ii) Fail to realize cop claim + guilty + Mafia lynch
iii) Did not claim protect target (did not submit protective action)
iv) Cop dies

Yeah, and as I said you were like "why didn't you protect the cop" and then hammered mist before she had a chance to answer. Vis-a-vis you weren't actually interested in an answer at all and were only concerned with making it seem like your vote was justified.

[ThAdmiral]

Two of those people were lynched, and I've come very close. Just sayin'.

[ThAdmiral]

Look at Charlie rushing to please whiskers. "would you like me to do a point by point reply, sir", "is there anything else you need to be more comfortable, sir".

Also trying to gain points with dash by calling him confirmed town now. He's been obv town for a while bro.

[ThAdmiral]

Then there's the bit where he was having soooo much trouble catching up, and so he made these great posts-- hindsight it 20/20. In these great posts, he mirrored the general town opinion.

Ok, I've got sport now so I can't say much but I had to respond to this:
Just a fucking second - I was absolutely against theamateurs lynch, in fact you even said yourself (I think it was you) that my opposition to the theam's lynch was what made you second guess it. And he was lynched before I could fully catch up. Something that I would have done every thing in my power to stop. I also believe I was one of the only people saying tarsonis was suspect.

I'm sure there were other points but these were off the top of my head.

[ThAdmiral]

and just before I go why would I, as scum, have you on my obvtown list for like forever and refuse to vote you?

[ThAdmiral]

Also, town voting blocs always have a scum in them
VOTE: tarsonisocelot for not knowing that after 8 completed games

This is 100% incorrect. As mentioned before even if they do sometimes have scum in them the voting bloc is designed to force them to vote the will of the bloc, therefore rendering their scum-vote useless. (however it is also useless for analysis purposes as well, so there's always 2 sides of the coin)

Defends Tarson and protects the townvotingblock.

I was mainly going against the sentiment that town voting blocs "always" have a scum in them. I've seen a few without any scum in them.
I'm fairly sure I mentioned this as well but I wasn't against the notion of a voting bloc, but there's no way tarson should have been on it.

Tarson, you just said he isn't mafia but are voting him. Explain how this makes sense?

The goal is to lynch mafia, you clearly said he isn't mafia, yet you vote him?

vote: tarson

I think this might be a reading comprehension fail. I mean I don't love tarson's vote either, because she doesn't seem all that convinced by it herself, but she didn't say that.
I'm keeping an eye on it. If it is just for pressure, fine. If, like monk, theamateur responds positively and the vote stays for a stupid justified reason then tarsonis shoots up my scum chart.

More Tarsonisocelot defending.

I'll give you this one, but technically it is defending with an addendum that could lead to attacking.

***

Guthrie I'm liking as well. New super-duper town team: beck, whiskers, guthrie. Probably theamateur as well.

Hey, 100% accuracy. Maybe we should all just sheep ThAdmiral.

Good idea.
Srsly though I feel like I've had a good run in recent games with getting my townreads right. Mark this up as another one. Maybe next game people will listen to me.

@ accusations of glados/me scumteam: I admit my read on glados flip-flopped a bit during the game. But it was the nature of her posts; one thing would really make sense to me, would be in line with exactly what I was thinking, and the next would be totally off-key. Anyway my reads are pretty set now.

[ThAdmiral]

I just had a hypothesis 'bout Charlie's and ThAdmiral's behavior, and I want to test it. Charlie and ThAdmiral, have either of ya been in 3p LyLo (or 5p LyLo with a situation like this one) in a recent game where ya weren't the decidin' vote? If so, please link (or name) it.

Not that I can recall. I generally like to be the deciding vote in lylo regardless of alignment.

[ThAdmiral]

I just had a hypothesis 'bout Charlie's and ThAdmiral's behavior, and I want to test it. Charlie and ThAdmiral, have either of ya been in 3p LyLo (or 5p LyLo with a situation like this one) in a recent game where ya weren't the decidin' vote? If so, please link (or name) it.

Not that I can recall.

I generally like to be the deciding vote in lylo regardless of alignment.

Applejack asks for meta.

Human responds with, "No meta."

Applejack is slightly disappoint but can deal with it.

Human adds, "Oh, yeah, I like it when I'm the deciding vote." *grin*

Applejack is slightly discombobulated. Why is Human volunteering extra information Applejack neither wants nor needs?

Don't understand this.

[ThAdmiral]

Don't understand this.

Neither do I! What

were

you trying to say with that extra sentence?

You asked if I had been in any lylo's recently where I wasn't the deciding vote. I said "probably not" and gave a reason to why this was the case.

[ThAdmiral]

Neither of you have 3p LyLo experience?

No, I have, just not recently. I also can't recall a time, although this might be wrong, where I've voted someone at the very start of the day in lylo, which is also what I believe you asked.

[ThAdmiral]

On my phone so can't post at length, but I checked your question and you said "recent game" "3 or 5 player lylo" "not the deciding vote". As far as I can recall I have not been in this situation recently.

[ThAdmiral]

If we (town) win this game I'll change my avatar to a pony for a month.

[ThAdmiral]

Note: I've never changed my avatar before so that would be a big deal to me. This game really has been enjoyable.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral, get in here and fight with me.

k

Start by saying how utter horseapples my case against you is

Your case against me is utter horseapples.

you know you didn't just slip that either you or Charlie blocked Beck last Night.

No I didn't block beck last night. Even if I somehow did block beck why would I then automatically know he didn't shoot. If anything I would have assumed he did shoot?

Start by arguing why I as scum would benefit from bussing Charlie today rather than lynching you outright today for the win today.

Because you knew rainbowdash wasn't budging and figured whiskers was coming around as well and tried to gain as much towncred as you could going in to tomorrow.

[ThAdmiral]

I want to vote aj but I'll wait till everyone posts first.

[ThAdmiral]

The only hint I got of something fishy was that I expected dash to have been killed rather than whiskers if aj was scum. In any case gg. I had fun but sadly no pony avatar since town didn't win.

Clap clap, or should I say clop clop...

[ThAdmiral]

Btw aj you totally misinterpreted me. I wasn't saying "it is my belief that beck shot last night but was blocked" I was saying "I am frustrated beck didn't shoot last night". The "I can't believe that..." was expressing my exasperation. Sorry I sent you on a wild goose chase.

[ThAdmiral]

I only realized what aj was getting at in her first post today. By then of course it was too late. Communication breakdown basically.

I'm not sure what you're referring to in the second part. Do you mean at the start? I can't remember whether that was because I forgot about the game starting or if I was flying back from the USA and didn't feel like launching straight back into mafia after the draining flight.

[ThAdmiral]

If you mean in general... I mean I have a job and shit. I can't be on all the time but I feel I have a pretty good level of activity.

[ThAdmiral]

No that was aj.

[ThAdmiral]

Yeah my last comment was mainly me trolling.

[ThAdmiral]

Just iso'd myself, and I'm pretty sad no one bought what I was saying

I believed your claim but it was too late by then.