Mini 1258: Marionette Mafia (Over)
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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Okay, sorry about that. I somehow missed the start of the game, but don't worry, I've never flaked out and I'm not about to do so now.
To answer the various questions posed:
1) What timezone are you in? - EST
2) What role do you enjoy playing as? - Town Roleblocker by far. My gut reactions tend to be really accurate.
3) Does anybody have any work/school conditions that can hinder posting at times? - My school schedule makes Tuesdays and Wednesdays tight for me. You might not see me on those days past 3pm.
4) What are your opinions on Policy Lynch? - I've had it work spectacularly well in a game I played off-site. I firmly believe in "lynch all liars."
5) Has the game so far produced any helpful information in your mind? - Yes; explained below.
My observations thus far:
I want charter to explain why he thinks there's a 50% chance of shinki being scum, because that's completely out of nowhere. Charter you are the most suspicious right now because of that.
I like RedPanda's scumhunting style.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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Charter, your reasoning for suspecting Shinki is valid. My FOS on you has been removed temporarily, although I disagree with the idea that there's a "50% chance" that she's scum.
In post 68, dank wrote:
Charter, do you think that by repeatedly posting that she doesn't find anyone suspicious yet, Shinki is scummier than those that have been more or less lurking through rvs (painkiller, delta etc..)?
I wasn't "lurking through rvs", I was unaware that the game even started. The moment that I realized the game began, I made my first declaring my presence and affirming that I would go back and read the thread.
In post 57, Parama wrote:
In post 51, DeltaWave wrote:I like RedPanda's scumhunting style.
...I want you to elaborate on this one. Just that this seems rather random.
RedPanda was obviously reaction-testing with the "you don't like to be special?" line of questioning. I like it because pressure tends to bring out people's true colors.
It's all about psychology. It's like what they do in police interrogations; they sit the suspect down in a chair, and walk in with a manilla folder that's labelled "(Suspect Name's) Criminal Activities" and slam it down on the table right in front of the suspect. The folder is full of random print-outs, but the suspect knows that he's guilty so he exhibits an "OMG I'M CAUGHT" reaction caused by his paranoia and the knowledge of his own guilt.
Redtail was obviously startled by this in Post #38. I'll pick apart the post:
Redtail said: "Even if that were true, why is that a reason for a vote? You think I'm scum based on the fact that I like playing VT?"
The part that really stands out to me is when Redtail says "Even if that were true." I would expect that an innocent reaction would simply assert the truth of the matter and leave it at that. But saying "even if that were true" is dodging the matter, being squirmy instead of confronting it head on. Especially in a matter as trivial as liking to play VT. Townies don't start talking in those terms until the stakes are higher, but to be slippery in RVS and especially when confronted with such an inconsequential question is another thing.
I've seen this kind of behavior IRL as well. Ever catch someone in a lie, and you ask them some question and they start dodging around saying "even if what you're saying is correct, blah blah blah." Those who tell the truth will confront directly, while those who are lying will try to step lightly.
For bonus scumpoints, redtail never actually denies being scum. Redtail is more interested inwhether or not he is perceived to be scumrather than declaring his innocence. This reflects an "OMG you're on to me" mentality. Ever call someone out as guilty of some bad act, and instead of saying "that never happened!" they say "who told you that?" This is that kind of situation. They're more interested in how they got caught rather than saying "I didn't do it."
tl;dr - innocent people don't need to muddy the waters or be evasive
This is why reaction testing (well, anything that generates substantial pressure really) is the best scumhunting method EVAR.
At this point I'm very comfortable with voting for redtail.
VOTE: RedtailWhen there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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Hey dank, nice of you to come to the rescue of redtail. Chainsaw defense perhaps?
In post 73, dank wrote:I wasn't "lurking through rvs", I was unaware that the game even started. The moment that I realized the game began, I made my first declaring my presence and affirming that I would go back and read the thread.
I know its far too early to say someone is lurking; I was looking for reactions, and I'm glad you quickly jumped in to defend yourself. You shot down the fact that you hadn't contributed yet, and quickly build a new case on redtail to focus the attention elsewhere.
Your logic is impeccable. I'm scum if I'm lurking, but if I post a case, I'm still scum.
I've noticed that only newbie townies and scum create Catch 22 situations like this in order to prove their case. Which one are you?
Speaking of which, your whole case on redtail is the fact that he was surprised that he wasn't believed when he said VT was his favorite role. You try to build this into a full case, which I find pretty laughable. "Even if that were true" is in response to the accusation of "not being special." Sounds like a guy sarcastically defending a silly personal attack? You say redtail never denies being scum, so he must be scum. Do you want us to post that we're all not scum on P1? No one in the game has said, "I'm not scum". Are they all scum too?
Oh come on. Now you are deliberately misinterpreting my argument. I never said that everyone who doesn't claim town is scum. I'm saying under the circumstances, it was fishy that he was more interested in how he got caught than maintaining his innocence.
I love post 72. It's someone already rattled by the slightest pressure of my suggesting that they're lurking being very defensive, and bullshitting a case together to divert attention elsewhere. Scummiest post i've seen, thusunvote, vote: DeltaWave
You said that I was lurking RVS, which is untrue. When I pointed out your falsehood, you decided to vote me. Hmm, why so self-pres, dank?
Also, weird compliment of RedPanda's scumhunting, and then adding your vote to the guy he's voting.
What makes it weird?
Additionally, in the very post that you build your case from,
He asksRedPandato explain his vote, which turns out to basically be your whole attempt at a case. RedPanda never answered this, but you answered it for him, and made your case from it. I find that interesting.
It should have been obvious what RedPanda was doing. Do you seriously believe that Panda cared whether VT was special or not? Come on, be real.
In post 75, redtail896 wrote:Charter: why didn't you present that case against me in your 1st post? Everything that you used in the case already existed, so the suspicion must have been there. Why wait?
Charter's assertion that sh was "50% scum" stood out to me, but when he explained it, I understood where he was coming from. At that point, I went back and analyzed your post in detail.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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Wow the redtail defender team is out in force today. None of you posted walls like these until right now; looks like I hit a nerve on the scumteam! One vote sends the whole scumteam into full on damage control. Nice.
Town, seriously, vote redtail. Then when redtail flips scum, go after Team Redtail and we win, game over.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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You don't see anything suspicious about redtail, dank and nabnab teaming up like this? How often do townies buddy up so fast?
I'm not even kidding. Mark my words; redtail will flip scum. My argument is airtight. Dank and nab had to misrepresent my argument to defend their scumbuddy. Anyone who gives my argument an honest consideration can see that. We can wrap this game up in three nights if we lynch redtail, then dank, then nabnab. Game over, perfect town win.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 82, Parama wrote:How often do scum actively defend their scumbuddies?
(hint: 1 in 100 times)
This is leading you straight down the path of WIFOM.
"Scum rarely defend their scumbuddies!"
"Scum know that scum rarely defend their scumbuddies, so this is perfect!"
"Scum know that people know that scum know..."
Just look at their posts for what they are. Do you think they offered up a fair characterization of my posts, or no? Do you think it's odd that they would jump in so quickly to another's defense? Those are the questions you should be asking.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 85, dank wrote:Your logic is impeccable. I'm scum if I'm lurking, but if I post a case, I'm still scum.
Where are you getting this? I made the lurking statement to get reactions from people, I just said that its too soon in the game to find someone lurking. You're really panicking aren't you?
You wish I was panicking. The only people you've managed to convince are those with a vested interest in defending redtail.
I decided to vote you for your bullshit case, which you don't even defend here because its so bad.
The rest of the redpanda distancing isn't worthy of a response. Feel good about this vote. Delta's panicking in the posts that follow are too good.
It's interesting how you get hyper-aggressive when redtail is under suspicion. The big mistake you made was jumping so quick to redtail's defense. If you waited a little while, it wouldn't have looked so suspicious!When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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I went back and found that I had actually addressed most of the arguments against my post, although redtail found the answers inadequate for obvious reasons.
If anyone has any specific criticisms of my argument, I'd be glad to address them. Reading the thread over, it seems that the arguments against me have very little to do with my argument, but rather other factors like timing. I'll run through them:
(1)Dank claimed that I create this case just to divert attention away from myself(Post 73) - Apparently Dank thinks that I'm coming up with this because dank accused me of being a lurker. Wrong for two reasons. One, I was on this train of thought even before dank accused me of being a lurker. I indicated my general agreement with RedPanda in Post 51 - Dank didn't accuse me of being a lurker until Post 68. My argument actually startedbeforeI was called a lurker, not after. The timeline doesn't match up one bit.
Second reason: Even dank admitted in Post 68 "By now, we have pages of information though." I don't see how my analysis is scummy at that point because I had plenty to go on.
(2)Dank calling me a lurker somehow elicited a scummy reaction from me(Post 73) - Nope. Dank said that I was lurking RVS. I wasn't aware the game actually started. So I said:"I wasn't "lurking through rvs", I was unaware that the game even started. The moment that I realized the game began, I made my first declaring my presence and affirming that I would go back and read the thread."
How is that scummy? It's a simple statement of fact.
(3)My case is "Bullshit"(Post 73) - Dank claims that my post is bullshit despite not actually criticizing the argument. Dank will talk about everything but the substance of my argument, why is that?
(4)My compliment of RedPanda's scumhunting is "weird"(Post 73) - Once again, dank is contradictory.
I explained this; I stated that I liked reaction testing. (Post 72)
Dank calls that weird... (Post 73)
But in that same post, says "I was looking for reactions" (Post 73)
So let me get this right. Dank employs reaction testing as a scumhunting tool. As does RedPanda. But when I say that I like reaction testing, Dank calls that weird. Once again, dank's argument is contradictory.
(5)Redtail's Post 74- This can go either way. Redtailadmits that he's more interested in how he was suspected, which is the core of my argument. However he claims it's to build a better defense. Interesting response, but he did confirm the core of my argument.
(6)NabNab's Post 78- All he says is that my argument is "reaching" and, apparently, reacting negatively to someone's opinion penalizes the town for participating. lol. I'm sure you can see the problems with that. We should never criticize anyone lest we penalize them from responding blah blah blah
(7)Charter's Post 90- He thinks I'm "defensive" for answering a question. this is the question I quoted in italics earlier.
I challenge you, can anyone point out what was defensive about my response?
Anyway that looks like all of it. I pretty much decimated the arguments against me. Hopefully those of you who are town will see what I mean.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 106, dank wrote:Post 79
Wow the redtail defender team is out in force today. None of you posted walls like these until right now; looks like I hit a nerve on the scumteam! One vote sends the whole scumteam into full on damage control. Nice.
Town, seriously, vote redtail. Then when redtail flips scum, go after Team Redtail and we win, game over.
Post 81
You don't see anything suspicious about redtail, dank and nabnab teaming up like this? How often do townies buddy up so fast?
I'm not even kidding. Mark my words; redtail will flip scum. My argument is airtight. Dank and nab had to misrepresent my argument to defend their scumbuddy. Anyone who gives my argument an honest consideration can see that. We can wrap this game up in three nights if we lynch redtail, then dank, then nabnab. Game over, perfect town win.
And you want me to believe you're town?
Your case was total bullshit. You think because redtail hesitated at agreeing that he isn't "special", he's clearly scum. He also didn't say he wasn't scum, which of course you should do if you're ever accused. You have yet to say you're not scum yourself, so you must be scum too. Using that as a reason was just laughable.
There's a difference between gauging a reaction from someone answering a silly irrelevant question, and someone reacting to a case on them with actual content. The above posts show your reaction, which is pure and simple panic from caught scum. If you want to gauge reaction, tell me why the above posts are a town reaction to being accused.
I don't want anyone to hammer until we hear from everyone who hasn't weighed in yet. That includes you Shinki. I don't like that you stuck your vote on the major bandwagon and still have yet to contribute anything.
Hey, you said it yourself - you don't like how Shinki stuck her vote onto the bandwagon without contributing. The problem is, enough people are mindlessly jumping on my bandwagon to the point where they can'tallbe scum. That means that townies are just playing follow the leader. Even if I'm wrong and you aren't scum dank, it's not a good sign for the town if townies are willing to line up and vote as soon as a popular bandwagon comes along. What I'm saying is that people need to think for themselves before jumping on.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 108, charter wrote:Delta, Dank's comment wasn't a question directed towards you. But you felt the need to defend against the comment. That's scummy. Dank's comment was not even worthy acknowledging, but it looks very suspicious that you deny lurking, and then proceed to make a bad case against the person who said you were lurking. Whether you were lurking or not is completely irrelevant. You got worked up over what you perceived to be a threat, but was really nothing at all.
Fact Check: I did not make a case against dank originally. My case was solely about Redtail and I started to see a connection between dank and redtail when he jumped to her defense.
Additionally: I corrected a simple mistake of fact. Like I said, what is scummy about that? Where is the evidence that I got "worked up"?When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 110, dank wrote:Hey, you said it yourself - you don't like how Shinki stuck her vote onto the bandwagon without contributing. The problem is, enough people are mindlessly jumping on my bandwagon to the point where they can't all be scum. That means that townies are just playing follow the leader. Even if I'm wrong and you aren't scum dank, it's not a good sign for the town if townies are willing to line up and vote as soon as a popular bandwagon comes along. What I'm saying is that people need to think for themselves before jumping on.
You avoided everything I said prior to the last sentence of my post why?
You keep making useless, conclusory statements. Saying my response was "pure panic", although I've askedseveral timesfor you to show exactly what part of my argument indicated that. Simply calling my argument bullshit doesn't work. Respond to specific things I said or don't respond at all. Repeating the word "bullshit" in each post you make doesn't add up to a legitimate argument.
I've also explained everything else before.
You criticize suspecting someone for an irrelevant question; well, isn't that what RVS/RQS is for? To generate pressure and see what happens? I can't believe you'd ignore this.
As for the rest, I've covered it elsewhere.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 114, NabakovNabakov wrote:DeltaWave wrote:
@Delta: Maybe you see every case against you as laughably bad because you insist on making strawmen of all of them. I have to say this may be the first time I've seen a strawman so boldly executed that it involves both "lol," AND "blah blah blah." Even the parts that aren't completely dismissive don't reflect what I said at all.
What do you think is an unfair characterization of your argument? Point it out, don't just assert it.
Firstly, your argumentisreaching. It depends on a superficial connection between redtail's behavior and your idea of how liars act. Redtail said "Even if that were true," and under certain circumstances, a liar might say the same thing. The problem is that the circumstances under which redtail said it were completely different than those for your hypothetical liar. Redtail wasn't being accused of anything other than a lack of desire to be special, so there was no accusation to be evasive of, no accusation to deny. Without this accusation, the logical chain linking "redtail" to "liar" is missing an important link. Soldiering on with the case despite this logical lapse is known, among other things, as reaching because it ignores inconvenient facts in a desperate grab for the desired conclusion. I almost would have chocked this one up to a mistake in reading the game, an accidental insertion of an accusation that never really happened, but your stubborn refusal to reevaluate your position has led me to believe that you are truly committed to this deception.
Wow, what a shock -- I'm trying to match up people's responses to how I think liars act! How controversial in a game of Mafia.
I know that redtail wasn't accused of anything except an irrelevant inquiry regarding their favorite role. Aren't you aware that RVS/RQS is designed to elicit pressure responses from people, even if the subject matter is irrelevant? The question doesnt have to be relevant for the response to be relevant.
Secondly, my issue isn't with "reacting negatively to someone's opinion," it's with reacting negatively to a player who confronts their accuser on the level of argument and rebuttal (as opposed to that of OMGUS and flat denials). Explaining or defending oneself when questioned isnotinherently scummy behavior, and woe betide the town that becomes convinced it is.
Are you reading the same game I am? Redtail didn't confront me until after dank and you did. I dealt with redtail's defenders before I dealt with redtail. What I find scummy about the response was that my accusation on redtail generated a disproportionately aggressive response from you and dank. Everyone throws accusations around, but as soon as redtail gets accused, two people jump to her defenseimmediately. You have to admit that this is suspicious. It's like I hit the Scum Panic Button or something by voting for redtail.
Nab if you are indeed town then you can appreciate how suspicious that looks to a third party.
Plus, you are misrepresenting my argument. I never said that the simple act of explaining one's self is scummy. I gave many, many more reasons for it and you are dismissing them all.
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Long story short, it looks like I'm no longer at L-1 but if getting lynched is what it takes for you people to take my arguments seriously then so be it. I win with the town whether I'm alive or dead so whatever. Because if you do decide to lynch me, the first thing you'll do after you see my flip is to say "holy shit, we just lynched a townie, why did we do that?" then you'll go back and look at my posts in a new light.
This idea that I made up the argument against redtail is BS. Dank wants to say that it's because he called me a lurker and I wanted to distract from that, but I was breadcrumbing this before he even accused me of that. I had no pressure at all, and the fact that shinki wasn't lynched for not suspecting anyone proves that Icouldhave just flown under the radar. It wouldn't make sense for scum to do what I did, even if scum wanted to play off of WIFOM. I'm not going to win any townpoints by coming out of the gate swinging, but that's what I did because my win condition requires me to eliminate scum. So I'm going to make arguments, and you might not like them, and maybe you're scum for that or maybe you're not - but the point is, I'm going to fulfil my wincon no matter what. If I think I've got scum, I'm going to present my argument and push for it.
Anyway, I'm a reasonable person and I will admit that I may have gotten tunnelvision on redtail there. I might have gotten swept up in the fighting. I am interested in hearing more about this vig claim. I still maintain my suspicions on redtail but I want to avoid getting tunnelled. (I've gotten tunnel vision in other games before and it ended up screwing me up.)When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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I will admit that there's a certain weakness to my argument. I'm not so completely tunnelled that I can't objectively assess my own argument. The weakness is that we all know what redtail did objectively, but there is dispute as to what it means. I claim that it's a scumtell, redtail claims it was just a defense to an absurd question. I would love to respond to your arguments in Post 74 redtail, but I can't confirm what you really think. All I can say is, "to my knowledge, your reaction was very similar to the reaction of a guilty person."
It seems that a majority of people don't agree. I'm sure that there are scum on my wagon though. Maybe it's dank, and maybe nab and redtail are innocent. Hell if I know. But it looks like my argument was generally not adopted so that's strong evidence that perhaps my argument is just too personal to my own roster of scumtells that others don't find it convincing. This means that I have to consider the possibility that I'm incorrect, which I'm doing right now. Youallcan't be scum and I'm not going to be arrogant enough to assume that you're all idiots.
I still have a FOS on you redtail, but consider my argument withdrawn... for now. I'm not backing down entirely but clearly the consensus is that it's not correct and there's nothing more I can say to argue for it. I've already given my argument, it's been rejected, and I refuse to put myself in a situation where I tunnel so hard on one player that I miss everything else. I've been in that situation before and it's not fun. If you are scum redtail, it will come out eventually and I will be the first to point it out, so don't think you are off the hook with me by any means.
UNVOTE: RedtailWhen there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 153, HermanoBro wrote:It's not in the town's best interest to question parama or his claim right now. The appropriate way to deal with it is probably to reserve all your thoughts on the situation until tomorrow. Everyone please do the same.
Is this a joke?When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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This is my list of things I find suspect right now. I'm not including Redtail or dank on this list right now because I'm looking to avoid tunneling. Their absence from this list doesn't mean I'm not watching them closely.
(1) Para's vig claim. There is no town reason to claim vig on D1. This is especially odd because para is not under any pressure to roleclaim.
(2) Hermano's bizarre request that we do not investigate the aforementioned vig claim. The town needs more information, not less.
(3) Shinki's unexplained vote on my bandwagon. For the record, I am suspicious ofallbandwagon votes that amount to "oh look a bandwagon, imma jump on" without much reasoning. I put this one at the end because it's the one I am the least suspicious of.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 169, Parama wrote:You idiots think I'm seriously claiming vig?
Everyone who even THOUGHT for a second that I was telling the truth needs to replace out and go play a newbie game instead. Thanks in advance.
I'll read stuff later, but this is just TOO silly.
Screwing around is not earning you townpoints here.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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You sound like you don't give a shit about the game, or you're scum, or both. Either way I'd be happy seeing you lynched.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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Parama, quit screwing around. If you continue to screw around then I will vote you for purely policy reasons. I can't tell if you are scum looking to throw up a smokescreen or if you are town having some kind of epileptic fit. Either way you need to cut the crap.
My suspect list is pretty much unchanged. I'm not sure if dank is just opportunistic scum or an overeager townie but I'm leaning toward #1. I'm pretty sure RedPanda is town.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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'In post 204, dank wrote:Why aren't you voting me if i'm scum?
I said that I wasn't sure whether you were scum or an overeager townie. The jury is still out on that for me. I am watching you very closely right now.
In post 205, redtail896 wrote:In post 203, DeltaWave wrote: I'm not sure if dank is just opportunistic scum or an overeager townie but I'm leaning toward #1. I'm pretty sure RedPanda is town.
What do you mean by opportunistic here?
I'm referring to dank's reasons for initially suspecting me. Dank stated early on that I was lurking RVS. When I corrected this factual error (by stating that I was unaware the game started), he took that as being "defensive" and since then has latched onto me, claiming he's caught scum. That's not the only reason he cited, but that's what got the ball rolling and ever since then he's been tunneling on me pretty intensely. It's absurd to say that my response was defensive; so the only options in my head are that he's scum who thought he found a way to start a bandwagon on a townie, or he's an overeager townie who is looking too hard for scumtells and finding them everywhere he looks. I'm leaning toward #1 because I asked him to be more specific about which part of my statement was defensive, but he hasn't done so.
There's an old saying, if you look for something hard enough you will find it. You can decide to take any response as "defensive" if you want to see it that way, even if it's just pointing out a simple fact.
On a possibly related note: what do you think of HermanoBro?
Very suspicious. His "wait and see" approach was highly suspect, and it looked like he was protecting Parama because I can't see any reason for town to claim vig on D1... then he turns around and suspects Parama as soon as Parama started his freakout. It sounds to me like Hermano could be scum who tried to protect his buddy Parama initially, but then bussed him as soon as he realized that Parama was acting like a psycho and would probably end up getting policy lynched.
I'm against lynching Parama for policy reasons, if only because I believe there is actually scummy behavior going on (DeltaWave and Hermano).
If Parama will clean up his act then that's one thing. But if Parama continues the way he's posting then he should be lynched. If you really dont care about the game Parama just replace out.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 209, dank wrote:Of course you're not sure, but aren't I your #1 suspect (and have been for pages now)? You could vote me to put some pressure on me, or at least get the attention going my way, but you haven't used your vote since you gave up on your useless redtail case. What exactly are you waiting for to cast that vote of yours?
What makes you think that you are (or were) my #1 suspect? In my last post I was suspicious of Parama, Hermano and Shinki.
Whatever, I'll admit that I might have been wrong about redtail. Like I said before, nobody saw what I thought I saw and you all can't be scum, so maybe I was wrong. I've taken a break from tunneling redtail to look at other people.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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If you don't care about the game then get out of here. Whether that's you replacing out you being lynched, either works for me. Don't waste everyone's time.
VOTE: ParamaWhen there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 217, NabakovNabakov wrote:Similarly, I've always thought that lynching players just to be rid of them is terribly anti-town play, but this is what Delta has just proposed.
If a player refuses to treat the game seriously, rages at everyone, posts in all caps all the time and thinks it's a good idea to make claims as a joke, then they are putting up a major smokescreen that could be just as easily concealing scum as it is town. There's no way to get a good read on someone if they're acting in an absolutely insane way. This makes Parama too much of a wildcard. If he continues to act this way,there is no realistic way to determine his guilt or innocenceaside from a cop investigation.
It's simple. If Parama is town but acting like a psycho for his own amusement, then he can only be a hinder to scumhunting and not a help. If Parama is scum trying to conceal his allegiance by acting bizarrely, then that's a good lynch. He's so far anti-town that he hurts us no matter what his flip is -- but of course, Parama can completely change that if he wants to.
But like I said, if Parama starts taking the game seriously I will withdraw my vote. All he needs to do is shape up. This matter is entirely in Parama's hands: I'm not going to let a player act erratically then decide I he is immune to lynching on account of his crazy behavior.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 254, charter wrote:I agree with Dank's latest post. I also feel that Hermano is changing his stance regarding parama's actions. At first it was 'don't discuss his claim'. Then he voted Parama for faking the claim. Now he's saying he just voted Parama to pressure him.
This is the perfect summary as to why Hermano is scummy. I have no problem whatsoever with opinion change, as long as it's supported by consistent and rational reasons. In fact, I think the ability to admit that one line of reasoning was incorrect is an important for a good player. For example I will freely admit that my case against redtail wasn't the best, and I pulled my vote accordingly because I'm looking for scum and if my initial reasons were wrong then continuing to vote for that person is not beneficial to the town. However, when someone flip-flops between contradictory positions with no adequate reasoning, I'm suspicious. I still have my eye on redtail and dank but Hermano has eclipsed them in scumminess.
VOTE: HermanoWhen there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 278, dank wrote:How did he flip flop between contradictory positions with no adequate reasoning? If you're going to jump on the bandwagon, i'd like you to explain this in depth.
It's contradictory to divert attention away from the claim, then direct a vote based on the claim. Also, the idea of generating pressure conflicts with the first reason to vote.
Now, if Hermano had adequate justification for changing his opinion, then I wouldn't have seen it as a problem. Opinions change and people shouldn't be locked into the very first thing they say or do, but to turn around and act in a fashion completely incongruent with their stated opinion is suspect.
I voted for Parama because of his anti-town behavior, but he stopped acting that way so I rescinded my vote. Much of the push against Parama was for the same reason. I think that Hermano tried to capitalize on that push and got left holding the bag when those with legitimate reasons to vote Parama left the bandwagon because parama was cooperating. Now it's all about damage control.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 287, dank wrote:Deltawave is scum because of his crappy case, his scummy reaction, and his voting pattern. Why aren't you ignoring and crying about parama, redtail, charter and others who share my opinion?
You are getting some serious tunnel vision here. This all started when you claimed I was scummy for pointing out that I was wasn't lurking RVS (as you had claimed) because I was unaware the game had started. Ever since then you have let confirmation bias take over and you see everything I do as scummy. You will find a way to make everything I do sound bad, so I suggest that if you are town you should step back and objectively re-assess your case. You are so deep in confirmation bias that you can't see a foot in front of you. If you are scum, then you deserve a congratulations, because you have assembled quite a fan club.
I've discussed my allegedly "scummy" reaction before, but I have admitted and I am admitting right now that perhaps my case on redtail wasn't the strongest. I thought I saw something which may not have been there, and I probably got a little too excited when I thought that I found a scumtell. I also admit that I was a bit aggressive in defending my argument, because I truly believed I hit the jackpot and revealed scum early on in the game. If you want to lynch me for that, whatever man. We all know town never gets tunnel vision and makes a bad argument, right? You need to step back and look at what you are arguing. That's what I did.
Anyway, I don't get your complaints with my voting pattern. Yeah I voted for redtail, but I rescinded that vote when I reassessed my argument. My vote on Parama was just to get him to quit acting erratically, which he did. My vote right now on Hermano is legit and if this bandwagon continues to its logical conclusion, I think you'll find that my reasons for voting him are justified. I'm pretty confident that he'll flip scum (as confident as I can be on D1.)When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 295, NabakovNabakov wrote:
Ok, Hermano's response to Parama's questions has left a good impression on me. He has laid out an internally consistent perspective on scumhunting that, what's more, matches up with his actions so far this game.
Are there any key points he made that have convinced you of this? Because I came to a different conclusion so I want your take on it.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 317, NabakovNabakov wrote:@Delta: I'm mainly looking at the perspective of play he lays out in his answers to 2 and 3. It de-emphasizes the role of discussion and, even more, the role of argument in townie play. To Hermano, townies are individual agents who are expected to gather information and form convictions independent of the rest of the town. They should share their thoughts if asked, but they shouldn't volunteer analysis apropos of nothing. This is meant to reduce knowledge scum have of the townie thought process and their influence in same. Moving to his response in 8, this de-emphasis on discussion comes along with a de-emphasis on traditional, discussion-based scumtells. The implication of this is that Hermano has far less faith in D1 lynches and doesn't see the point in D1 analysis. Not only is this philosophy of play internally consistent, it matches up with aspects of Hermano's play in the early game (where I felt his play was scummiest). This applies especially to his decision not to comment on your wagon, despite asking others to do so (this is where the categorical imperative starts to rear its head), and his original position that the best approach to Parama's claim was to wait until the night brought more solid information.
That actually makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
UNVOTE: Hermano
while I figure this out...When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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Wow nice misrep vijay. What's your angle here?
In post 339, vijay2vasandani wrote:Ah fuck. I had a post which took ages on my phone to make and I lost it. Anyway, here is what it.boils down to:
Initially, Delta makes a case based on redtails jumpy response to redpanda's questions regarding VT as a favourite role. Personally, I posted that I also found redtails response jumpy and voted for him(her?). However, Delta reached and tried to make an entire case based on that. When this was pointed out to him by dank and NabNab, he quickly accuses them of being redtails scumbuddies and says that "(his) case is airtight". Subsequently, a wagon forms on him because of this line of reasoning.
After Delta gets put at L-1 by Shinki, his "airtight" case seems to have lost steam and developed some holes. Holes that were pointed out by dank, nab and redtail, but delta refused to acknowledge until he was brought to the brink of being lynched. He quickly jumps on Parama's fake-jokeclaim and votes for him under the pretence that non-serious players should be lynched. Once again, I did the same thing, so this probably isn't the best part of the case. However, when he retracts his vote, he quickly places it on the next wagon to materialize, which is Hermano.
I'll be honest, I'm not exactly the most experienced player, and under Parama's definition, I am a noob. However, Delta's play stinks of scum who frantically reacted to an almost Lynch by retracting a case he considered to be "airtight" and quickly hopping onto the next available wagon.
@charter: I know you have Delta as a townread but you do realise he unvoted Hermano, right?
VOTE: Deltawave
Aside from this, I have suspicions on Hermano and Shinki. I had the reasons in the post I lost. I'll try to type it up again in a bit.
(1) Yeah, I went back on my argument when I saw that there wasn't much to it. You want to see that as scummy, fine, but good town players don't stick religiously to their first argument if they see that it's flawed. I like your logic here, it's scummy that I stuck to my argument but also scummy that I rescinded it when I saw that it was incorrect. (At least, that's the impression I'm getting from your post.)
(2) Fact check: I did not "quickly jump" on Parama's claim. I told Parama specifically to cut out the anti-town behavior or I would vote for him. He responded with another all-caps, irrelevant post. So I voted for him. And I pulled the vote when he ceased being anti-town. This is entirely incongruent with your description of my actions. (Link)
(3) Fact check: I did not "quickly place" my next vote on the soonest wagon. Several pages of discussion went by before I did.
(4) You admit that you voted for the same people after I voted for them. Yet you are going to criticize me for making those votes. Seriously, what universe are you living in, that this reasoning makes sense?
Your reasons here are completely incoherent. So what, your theory is that I jumped on Parama because I'm scum and wanted to lynch him? HERP DERPI voted him because he was acting crazy and I removed his vote when he stopped.YEAH SOUNDS LIKE I'M REALLY PUSHING FOR A MISLYNCH THERE. And what next, you think I jumped on Hermano for the same reason, as scum to push a mislynch? Yeah, make a lot of sense that I would pull my vote after hearing an adequate defense of his actions. YOUR THEORY IS ILLOGICAL.
What is your angle here vijay? You say: "Delta's play stinks of scum who frantically reacted to an almost Lynch by retracting a case he considered to be "airtight" and quickly hopping onto the next available wagon." NOPE. If I was going to do that, then I wouldn't have TOLD PARAMA I WOULD REMOVE THE VOTE IF HE STARTED PARTICIPATING... and then REMOVE THE VOTE AS PER MY EARLIER STATEMENT. What you're saying makes no sense.
Vijay, I'm going to ISO your posts because I have a hard time believing that a townie could make this kind of case. Your argument boils down to, "He voted for everyone I did, so he must be scum!" WTF, seriously. Do you even know how scummy this looks? Not to mention all your factual errors.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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Vijay, in reading your post I get the impression that you have good intentions but you are simply incorrect.
In post 347, vijay2vasandani wrote:Um let me correct that Delta. First of all, I voted for redtail before you did. You had the same line of reasoning I did yet tried to extend it as far as a full case meriting a lynch. That was scummy.
Unless you are voting just to put pressure on someone, whenever you vote for someone, you are saying that they deserve a lynch.
Next, you rescinded your airtight case ONLY when placed at L-1, when the points that invalidated the case were raised almost directly after your post in the first place. That is scummy.
No, that's not scummy. It got to the point where even if all the scum were on my bandwagon, town had to be also and if my argument was that bad then yeah I had to rescind it.
Thirdly, I conceded that you voting for Parama was not a strong point in my case against you. As a matter of fact, I can safely ignore that part. However, the vibe I got from your posts still seems to be a scummy one, because of the first two points. Along with that, I didn't vote for HermanoBro, so point 4 only really applies to Parama. Point 1 I have refuted above, point 2 I have conceded. Now tell me when you say "lots of discussion", you are obviously referring to you parrotting charter and dank in post 274 (iso #25) which coincidentally comes after post 242 (iso #24) where you unvoted parama am I right?
Your argument is weak because it doesn't make sense. There's no coherent argument here. However, your argument style indicates to me that you are probably town and you think you've got some things, so you want to jump on that. Is this correct?When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 349, vijay2vasandani wrote:Yeah I think I'm right. My vote for redtail was to put pressure. I don't know about the second point. I found it scummy but I guess that's a valid explanation for it. Lastly my argument in the last point is that you voted for hermano directly after unvoting parama. Furthermore, your reason was that charter summed it up perfectly. Charter provided a summation of dank's case, so you parrotted them both which is why I said you jumped on the bandwagon.
Vijay, once again you are being inconsistent.
You think that it's scummy that I would use dank's reasoning to vote for Hermano. That's not a scumtell, but whatever. The implication is that Hermano is town and that I would be looking to mislynch. But you also suspect Hermano, which indicates that you think he might be guilty. So which is it? You can't have it both ways. On top of all that, I removed my vote from Hermano when Nab's argument introduced enough doubt for me to reconsider, so I don't know how that fits into your perception of events.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 352, vijay2vasandani wrote:No, no, no, no. It's not that hermano is or isn't scummy. Parrotting is scummy Delta. Using other people's thinking to make it look like you're helping without contributing.
Um thanks Hiraki I doubt I'm good at it though.
Agreeing with someone is neither here nor there. If someone said exactly what I was thinking already, I'm not going to repeat it all. There's no point in running over the same ground.
Vijay, in post 223, you said that I read as town who tunneled too hard. That's a correct assessment, but what made you change your mind? You thought my case against redtail was a tunneling mistake, but now you think it's a scumtell. That's a pretty big 180.
I'm not voting for you right now because I get this strong gut feeling that you are town who is just a bit off course right now. However I am going to keep investigating you.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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EBWOP: Elaboration - Don't get me wrong, I think agreement is definitely something to be looked at once some roles are confirmed. But simply saying "This person agreed with that one" is not a scumtell.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 367, vijay2vasandani wrote:Yet, if he us suspicious of these things, why would he do the same thing himself? That point caused me to evaluate his overall scumminess to be far more than that of Hermano and Shinki at the moment.
Vijay, I'm starting to question my gut reaction that you are town because it seems like you're doing everything in your power to manufacture a case here.
Shinki jumped on my bandwagon without any reasoning; I found that suspicious.
I voted for Hermano... I provided reasons in post 274. The reasons were similar to charter's, which is why I said I agreed with him, but I still provided reasoning of my own above and beyond what Shinki did.
It looks like you are trying everything to form a case here.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 371, vijay2vasandani wrote:I am not trying to manufacture a case against you. I'm only trying to explain why I have my gut tells me that you are scummy. Funnily enough the case I am presenting is similar to the one initially raised, except for my last point. Yet you haven't raised those points before.
You have a confirmation bias problem, you've already concluded that I'm scummy now you're going back after the fact to find reasons for it. That's pure circular logic right there. At this point I'm trying to decide if you are just town who has gone off the rails or if you are scum who has decided that you want me to be today's mislynch and you'll manufacture as many bad cases as required to get there.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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EBWOP: Vijay, your case is also undermined by the fact that you have voted for more people than anyone else in the game thus far. (I think.) This indicates that you're testing the waters with each vote, looking to see if you'll get a bite (and a mislynch) with every new target you pick.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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@Parama: Innocent people can behave scummily, so I'm trying to determine if vijay is just town who tunnelled a bit too hard or scum. Right now I'm leaning toward the former, but this isn't a clean bill of health for vijay. I'm not going to let my guard down.
@Hermano: Did you seriously just shift into full-on self-preservation/opportunist mode? Yeah, hopping on the next largest bandwagon with one line of reasoning when you are under heavy scrutiny is definitely "satisfying." I guess you'll be happy with any lynch as long as it's on town. charter, I am sorry for ever doubting you. <3
VOTE: HermanoWhen there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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In post 400, vijay2vasandani wrote:Hmmm. That's interesting. Parama you seem to think you can determine the scumteam, what about Delta-Hermano-Shinki? Does that look like a possibility to you? In accordance with my reads, that would suggest a bus by Delta, but for some reason I'm not sure. I don't know if its because I don't know if scum would bus d1 (newbieness) or if its because of just the vibe I'm getting.. however buddying up to charter by delta noted.
@ Dank: you asked what was different about my case on Delta. What do you think about my response? Is it "forced"? I think they are pretty valid.
@ Delta: it isn't like that. I read your posts, I get weird vibes. I reread and try to see why that is the case. Good misrepping and discrediting me though.
I don't see where I've misrepped you. I have discredited your argument, though. You thought it was contradictory that I would suspect Shinki for hopping on a bandwagon with little reasoning, and that I agreed with dank when I placed a vote. The problem was, Shinki posted a very short (I think it was one line-ish) reason why she was voting, and I posted three paragraphs. That's totally different; simply because I thought another person's reasoning was good, doesn't mean I'm mindlessly bandwagon hopping. I'm trying to figure out if you are intentionally looking to build a manufactured case here, or if you are just misguided.
It's not looking good for you vijay. You can't ignore my entire argument, dismissing with a simple "Good misrepping" and then call it a day. I'm not interested in convincing you of my innocence; there's a fairly good chance that you might be scum and you know my alignment anyway. What I'm interested in are your reactions. And your reactions are getting more and more suspicious with each post. You keep building bad case upon bad case. Why is that?
Here is where I have a conflict. My head says you are scum vijay, but my gut says you are town who is tunnelling like mad and missing a lot of details. That's the only reason why I'm not voting you right now. On the other hand, Hermano is more blatant in his scumminess and I'm pretty confident putting a vote on him because of his hardcore self-preservation antics right now. On my scumdar, you are #2 Vijay because of the way you've been acting, so don't think for a second that I've stopped examining what you're doing just because I find someone else to be scummier right now. And for sure, if Hermano flips scum, I'm coming right for you vijay first thing tomorrow.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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- Location: New England, USA
The general impression I get from JoNo's posts is that he wants to lynch somebody just to lynch, then survive as long as possible. I'm bothered by that. However it sounds more like SK behavior than mafia behavior. Although I won't rule out Hermano-JoNo-???? as a team.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
In post 407, redtail896 wrote:And why wouldn't we want to lynch an SK?
Huh? I said that he sounds more like SK than scum. I never said that we shouldn't lynch him. I have no idea how you could have gotten that from what I wrote.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Location: New England, USA
In post 409, don_johnson wrote:the implication there, delta, is that you didn't seem to entertain the idea of lynching the sk. but in fact, there are plenty of good reason not to lynch an sk over scum. the main one being that an sk has no teammates, therefore no connections will be made. secondary is that sk has no teammates, and so once they are found out, there is no reason to lynch them until mafia is cut down to a manageable size. so you probably should have said something about that. but you didn't. you just entertained the idea of lynching someone. hermano(lead wagon), or jono(nice alternate wagon.).
So let me get this right.
I didn't seem to entertain the idea of lynching the SK, according to you.
Then at the end of your paragraph, you say that I was entertaining the idea of lynching JoNo. Who I think is the SK.
You serious?When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
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- Location: New England, USA
In post 412, don_johnson wrote:as a heart attack.
redtail thought you implied you would not entertain the idea of lynching the sk. then you implied he may be scum with hermano, meaning you are entertaining the idea of lynching him as scum. either way, you are what you eat.
charter: ok.
unvote, vote hermano
There are no implications. What I said was that I find JoNo scummy and I think he could be the SK. But I'm not ruling out that he's just a plain old mafioso. There's no hidden message between the lines there.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
In post 415, don_johnson wrote:hence the word "implied". it doesn't matter what you "meant" or what you "actually said." your words are only how they are interpreted. nothing more. please vote hermano.
It's not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
My vote is already on Hermano.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
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- Location: New England, USA
In post 425, NabakovNabakov wrote:Exactly. A chain lynch is where you say. "I propose we lynch Player Ω, and when (or if) he flips town/scum, it's then obvious that we should lynch Player Φ the next day." It's overconfidence to be sure and a not-so-subtle method of intimidation (especially useful for preventing any concerned townies from speaking up about the wagon."
That was more like thinking out loud on my part, but I can see why it would be detrimental.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
In post 427, don_johnson wrote:Its not detrimental. Everyone should explain their chain lynching theories. How does it "intimidate" anyone? If anything it forces scum to work harder to avoid having their buddies in anyones chain...
Now that I think about it, even when I've successfully nailed scum, my chain-lynch candidates were not as reliable and it's led me down the wrong path on a few occasions. I'm still relatively new so I'm still feeling that out.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
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In post 429, vijay2vasandani wrote:I'm assuming that the chain lynching comments cone from my comments about who I believe the scumteam is? If that is the case I'm sorry.
@ Delta: I said misrepping because you made out like I convinced you were scummy and only searched for evidence to prove it. And this is the point where are arguments meet. You said Shinki posted a one-liner to vote you. However, I do not take "i agree with your case" to be a valid enough reason. Maybe its just me, but if you want to vote for somebody seriously, contribute to the case and make some justification. Not doing that is where I believe your scumminess lies because I don't see how it helps us as town.
Are you aware of post #274?When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
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In post 434, vijay2vasandani wrote:Yes. I quoted it. I'm sorry but i'll say it again, I don't like the fact that the focal point of your vote is somebody else's reasoning. It does not sit well with me. Sorry.
That's the thing, you can find examples of people agreeing with other people in this game with even less reasoning but you're not interested in that. It sounds like you've decided you're going to point the finger at me and you'll find any reason to do it. What makes you vote me instead of hermano? Hermano is obvscum and the argument against me is crap. All things considered, I find your lack of a vote on Hermano suspect. This is what I was getting at earlier (with the chain-lynching logic), that you're still on me in an attempt to save your buddy. It's the only way I can rationalize your behavior.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
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- Location: New England, USA
Vijay, I have been scumhunting. In the course of the day, I've spent a lot of time examining you, redtail, dank, charter and hermano.
With that said, I would be happy to lay out my case against Hermano. I'm about as confident as you can be on day one that he's scum and he should swing today.
Hermano first became a blip on my scumdar when he claimed that we shouldn't investigate Parama's vig claim. I don't know if this is idiosyncratic to me, but I find discussion to always be pro-town and alarm bells go off when someone tries to discourage discussion. Usually it's implicit discouragement of discussion, but in this case, he comes right out and says we shouldn't discuss it. I don't want to go into a wall of text about theory, but as the uninformed majority, we need to get as much information as possible to defeat the informed minority. Therefore any attempt to impede the collection of information works in favor of the informed minority (mafia.)
Then, Hermano turns around and votes Parama for his claim. Now I'm confused, but alarm bells are going off left and right. I can speculate about motives all day, but it's clear to me that Hermano realized his first action was scummy as hell so he did an about-face and jumped at the action on the other extreme end; vote for Parama due to his fake claim. I voted for Parama too, but because Parama was goofing off and not taking it seriously.
Of course, when he was examined for acting so scummy, he blew up at dank in Post #230 in a rant complete with all-caps, bold text, underlined text, and personal attacks directed at everyone in the game generally. Again, this comes to what I said earlier. He wants to discourage discussion, not encourage it. The underlying message here is "Don't investigate me; you'll regret it!" while implying that everyone who votes for him needs to think more. He then makes the fairly ludicrous claim that dank is a newb in Post #232, which is hilarious because dank has been on this site for years and the case against Hermano is strong. It sounds like he wants to pull every trick to get people to focus elsewhere; appeals to emotion, personal attacks, obfuscating arguments, an appeal to his alleged experience at mafia. Post #258 was pure OMGUS self-preservation, and naturally he hopped on the 2nd largest bandwagon (myself) in hopes to give himself one last chance at surviving the day.
Combine that with Hermano's generally unhelpful complaints about how we're all idiots, and I think you've got scum who is overcompensating in a really twitchy way. Nab's discussion of theory regarding Hermano's posts made me question my vote, but I eventually came back to it because Hermano's scumminess is undeniable. Basically he's been coming out with dazzling displays of twitchy aggression, generic arguments, and evasion but he's contributed very little to real discussion except -- at every turn -- to try to discourage it.
I think this is more than enough to vote for Hermano D1, and I'd like to finally be in a game where we take out scum on day one. This is a slam-dunk. Unless he's stoned out of his mind, town would not act this way.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 3591
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You might have said it before, I don't know. Good post though, I didn't pick up on that particular scumtell. The case against Hermano has been pretty well fleshed out, and I think the lack of a deadline is the only reason why Hermano isn't dead right now.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
In post 444, Parama wrote:
if we eliminate a SK we eliminate an entire anti-town faction and reduce the number of kills at night.
Wouldn't voting SK be a better option for D1, then? <_____<
Then again we also have no evidence of a SK existing, which is why I'm not gonna vote Delta today on the off chance that he's SK.
JoNo can still die a happy death ^^
I'm reasonably certain that Hermano is scum. I'm not as certain that JoNo is scum, but he's still suspicious. I'm not sure whether JoNo is SK or Mafia, though. I'm entertaining the idea that he is SK; that doesn't mean I'm dead certain that's what he is. (Of course, there may not be an SK at all.) All I can tell at this point -- and especially on D1 -- is that Hermano ought to die.
'cause you aren't voting him? <_____<
Not voting him right now, but I'm open to a vote tomorrow. There's a difference between saying, "I want to lynch someone who is more likely scum" and "I don't want to lynch at all."
And this is what they mean by chain lynching :V
Delta plays the newb card in 428! Brilliance! That doesn't work in a mini normal! Play more newbie games! <___________<
Yeah, I've been in six games on here (3 current, 3 completed) and this is the first time I've heard the term. It's also not on the wiki as far as I can tell.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
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- Joined: August 31, 2011
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- Location: New England, USA
In post 449, dank wrote:dank, I'm not finding much of a clear case on delta, skimming your posts. I agree his case on redtail seemed wack(the one thing I remembered already), but is there anything else you wanted me to comment on?
His reactions to my questioning on the pages following convinced me pretty well, and his voting pattern is basically the whip cream and cherry on the scumdae.
Yeah, when you said I was lurking RVS and I corrected you, you took that as being "defensive." Ever since then, you thought you got me on something, so you want to see everything as suspicious. I hope I'm the target of a cop investigation tonight so that we can get this crap out of the way.
Anyway, dank, why are you not on board with the Hermano lynch? The case on Hermano is practically open and shut.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
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In post 453, dank wrote:two vigmason factions, to counteract the two SKs, right?
Anyway, dank, why are you not on board with the Hermano lynch? The case on Hermano is practically open and shut.
wat?
Nevermind, I thought you weren't voting Hermano for some reason.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
Spoiler Alert: Hermano half-jokingly claimed cop earlier so that he could see if anyone would react to counter-claim it. Since nobody popped up with the "OMG I'M A COP" response, he will now affirmatively claim cop as he will feel more secure about doing it on the off chance that this setup does not contain a cop. And of course, this lets his scumbuddies figure out who the cop is if there is one.
(Feel free to thank me after this plays out as I have described)When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA
EBWOP: Clarification - Hermano knows he's toast so he's going to claim some kind of power role. Actually, it's slightly more likely that he would claim Doc than Cop under these circumstances.When there's trouble, you call DW.
"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3591
- Joined: August 31, 2011
- Pronoun: she/her/hers
- Location: New England, USA