Mini 1269: Murder in OMACEA!! OVER!

[Bub Bidderskins]

@PyroDwarf: What's your position on the Delta wagon?

[Bub Bidderskins]

@PyroDwarf: What's your position on the Delta wagon?

Of the people that have been active, I find him the scummiest, followed by empking's alt. I didn't want to put him at L-1, just in case the was a ballsy scum waiting in the wings with a hammer post.

Then why haven't you voted for, FoSed, or otherwise put any pressure on either of those?

vote: PyroDwarf

@Bub: What's your position on the Delta wagon?

While I think Delta's reasons for voting enomis are total BS, right now he's coming off as antagonistic town, especially because I really don't like some of the people around and about his wagon. Empking has offered very little support for his vote on Delta, Pyro's all over the place when it comes to Delta (although he never came to put a vote or FoS on him, although he now thinks he's the scummiest), kondi's voting for basically OMGUS reasons, and you have offered tons of fluff with no real meat behind it. The two scummiest of that group are Empking and PyroDwarf, though. OMGUS and people invoking it is a null tell at best, and you have provided more backing for your vote that Empking.

[Bub Bidderskins]

First of all, sorry I didn't come in nicer, but I wanted maximum shock value on my question to PyroDwarf. Hey Panacea, I'm glad you think I've got awesome flavor .

Of course! You were an awesome mod. I was psyched to see your PM for the slot!

Oh, and enomis is town BTW. He obviously comes from a site that has faster days and he's adjusting. He is looking for scum, gave a legit reason for not voting, then voting for Delta.

[Bub Bidderskins]

@PyroDwarf: Why is the stuff Delta is doing not earning him any town points?

[Bub Bidderskins]

But he voted you for pressure. I smell some OMGUS up in here. You then go on to call him scummy because he didn't unvote you when you answered your question, but he had a new reason to vote you; he thought your strategy was scummy. By the way, you did the same thing. Your new reason to vote him was because he didn't change his vote. VOTE: Delta

Kondi, this is basically the only reason you are voting for Delta. You're voting for him because he voted for enomis in an OMGUS. That's basically it. Feel free to enlighten me if I'm on the wrong track.

[Bub Bidderskins]

First of all, sorry I didn't come in nicer, but I wanted maximum shock value on my question to PyroDwarf. Hey Panacea, I'm glad you think I've got awesome flavor .

Of course! You were an awesome mod. I was psyched to see your PM for the slot!

Oh, and enomis is town BTW. He obviously comes from a site that has faster days and he's adjusting. He is looking for scum, gave a legit reason for not voting, then voting for Delta.

Nope, i dont come from a site that has faster days. Basically, this is my second game on mafiascum and mafiascum is the only site where i played forum-based mafia. Well, you could also say i come from a faster site as i played on epicmafia which is obviously not forum based where the days are only like 10minutes.

I actually was specifically thinking of Epic Mafia when I said that.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Anyway, answer my question. Why do you have towntell on Delta. Well, i will allow you to answer this after pyro answers. Afterall, your question is aimed at him.

While his reasons for voting you were terrible, I don't think they are scummy. To me, it reads of him trying to pull a silly RVS crap trap, and now trying to justify its results. I don't see any mafia motivation. However, his wagon stinks. Like I said before, there are all kinds of scummy people around and about that wagon. I think this answers your question as well, Karne.

Would anyone accept a 1v1 with Delta and I?

What are you talking about?

[Bub Bidderskins]

I think it's about time for Delta to say some thing other than unapologetic, arrogant crap.

We know you are so certain that enomis is scum. We get it. How is it not strategic to talk about how you feel about others? The only players with things to hide are scum.

I suggest you make your defense with great haste.

Vote:DeltaWave

Now we're finally putting our money where are mouth is, eh? Seriously, Delta has been posting unapologetic, arrogant crap for a long time, and yet you only now decide to hop on his wagon, right after I called you out for not supporting it. I don't like this.

I do agree that Delta's posting has been unhelpful and arrogant, absolutely. But is he scum? I find it hard to believe a scum would be so, well, ridiculous. In particular, I feel that scum tend to be more cautious about pushing on one person than Delta has been.

I feel like Delta's being put up for lynch more for a terrible playstyle than for actual scumminess. And this post in particular seems less than innocent. It looks a bit like setting up a tasty bandwagon on Delta and hoping a townie, fed up with Delta, will come along and hammer it.

FoS:Demyx

[Bub Bidderskins]

You were absolutely fine with calling Delta scum based off that unhelpful and arrogant play earlier, why the sudden shift?

Also, Treznor needs to get into the game. The few posts he's made have been bad, and he seems to be coasting. Come on man!

[Bub Bidderskins]

You were absolutely fine with calling Delta scum based off that unhelpful and arrogant play earlier, why the sudden shift?

Is it that sudden? Pretty sure that I've made several posts to the effect of "Delta's acting scummy but it doesn't necessarily make him scum." I've actually voted him, unvoted him (that the GM forgot to include in the tally), I think voted him again, then unvoted him again.

Yeah, pointing out how much you've waffled on the wagon is really helping your case .

Demyx could be scum who is trying to hedge their bets and prepare for my townflip, if I do get lynched today. That would be a sad event because I am the most pro-town player here.

Just for future reference, tunneling on an obv-town player for arbitrary and ambiguous reasons is not pro-town play. However, I agree with your assessment of Demyx. It's that kind of scummyness around your wagon that makes me think you got a town role PM.

[Bub Bidderskins]

How is he obvious town. Nobody has said that he is obvious town. They are just pointing out that there may be a likelihood that he may be town. You make me suspicious because only mafia knows who is obvious town and this could really be a scumslip.

FOS : BubBidderskins

You do realize that I was talking about you when I mentioned the "obv-town" player, right?

BTW citizen, how many scums do you think are in this game. 2 or 3. I would like to get other people's opinion on this please.

Cool, a townslip. As for the question itself, I give you a 90% probability that there are two scum. If there are three scum, then that means that if we miss-lynch on D-1, then D-2 is LYLO assuming that the scum kill goes through. That makes it really hard on the town. For what it's worth, I've never been in a 9 person game with 3 scum.

[Bub Bidderskins]

hmm...Then why am i obv town?

You've been looking around for scum in an honest way. Honest scumhunting is the best town-tell, but you also asked how many scum there were in the game. That is a huge town-slip coming from a player like yourself. You come from epicmafia where all of the games are open setups where all of the roles are known. If you were scum, then you would know how many scum there were and would probably assume that everybody else knew as well, because that's what you're used to. The fact that you are a noob and are openly wondering as to how many scum there are means that you are town.

Now, an experienced scum could fake that, but you are not an experienced scum. I honestly don't see scum who joined less than two weeks ago faking that.

[Bub Bidderskins]

besides the huge town-slip which happened (which i could really fake) which happens after you say i am obv town. So the only point u have when you make that sentence is i am looking around for scum in an honest way. Hmmmm....Isnt that read a little to weak to put me on an cfmed town spot?

I never said confirmed town. I said prob town. There's a difference. Furthermore, I don't think noob scum could fake that slip, and even with the slip aside I've got a town read on you. Throughout the game you've made honest attempts to find scum. You seem to be actively trying to find the mafia, which is a hallmark of town play.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Delta's made it pretty obvious he's not going to give reasons. Has anyone expressed a willingness to hammer him? I'm not going to hammer him, at least not without any new information/arguments. If he doesn't have serious hammer pressure, I doubt you're going to get anything out of him other than "Enomis is scum, I'm so smart."

unvote, vote Demyx

Fishing for a hammer while keeping off the wagon, eh?

[Bub Bidderskins]

unvote, vote Demyx

Fishing for a hammer while keeping off the wagon, eh?

I've explicitly said I don't want Delta hammered and am trying to discourage it. I think Delta is a town wagon that scum are hopping on, for an easy lynch on an obnoxious townie.

@demyx: citizen karne has expressed his willingness to hammer delta long ago.

Oh, didn't actually realize that. Thanks for the clarification.

Trying to discourage it my ass. You were actively fishing for a hammer while you were off the wagon.

[Bub Bidderskins]

@Demyx: Who would you rather lynch on day one: a shot in the dark or an uncooperative player that is not helping scumhunt because he is zeroed in on a newb-town?

Huh, that's weird, because I was under the impression that we were supposed to lynch scum.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Whoops I posted one part a bit early. Here's the rest:

unvote, vote Demyx

Fishing for a hammer while keeping off the wagon, eh?

I've explicitly said I don't want Delta hammered and am trying to discourage it. I think Delta is a town wagon that scum are hopping on, for an easy lynch on an obnoxious townie.

@demyx: citizen karne has expressed his willingness to hammer delta long ago.

Oh, didn't actually realize that. Thanks for the clarification.

Trying to discourage it my ass. You were actively fishing for a hammer while you were off the wagon.

I don't like this argument. There is only room for four people on the wagon before L-1, Bub.

He got off the wagon when it started building up, but then was asking around for a hammer after he got off.

[Bub Bidderskins]

@Panacea, the spoiler's aren't working. Trying using a

Spoiler:

tag instead. Those are better in anyway.

THANK YOU!!!

@Empking: Reason?

[Bub Bidderskins]

vote: Empking

Immediately comes out on D-2 and tries to distract scumhunting by putting a vote on a lurker. Town response would be to go right after the mislynch wagon on Delta, but instead he brings up weak reasoning for an old early-game scumread on a lurker. The fact that he started voting off the wagon makes me think that he's got a scumbud on the wagon, most likely Pyro. Demyx' play from D-1 is still scummy, but if he was Emp's scumbud, then Emp would have started attacking on the wagon to distract from Demyx. As it stands now, Empking put an opportunistic vote on a D-1 mislynch wagon, and then tries to cover his ass by putting a weak vote on a lurker off the wagon. Very scummy indeed. So my scumboard looks like this:

empking is scum

Demyx is prob town
Somebody on the wagon is emp's scumbud (I'm thinking pyrodwarf)

empking is town

Demyx is prob scum (from is actions regarding the Delta wagon on D-1)
Scumbud was probably on wagon (again, I'm leaning towards pyrodwarf).

[Bub Bidderskins]

VOTE: Empking's Alt
Not a retaliation vote (though perhaps Empking's Alt's vote was as I voted him almost the entire day yesterday), but rather putting my vote back where it was yesterday. Empking's Alt's logic was sketchy at best when he tried to explain anything yesterday. As well, if Empking's Alt was trying to pick a lurker, I posted just as often as he did yesterday

1. The lady doth protest too much.
2. Trying to smear my vote on him pretty pathetically.

FOS: Bud

- Trying to protect his buddy ("We can't lynch Trez because he's a lurker"), basically lie ("Empking's opportunistic vote" when it was nothing of the sort) and try and call people scummy for looking off the (pretty awesome) Delta wagon. A wagon that had neither Bub nor Trez on and which Bub would (basically only) be motivated to keep us focused on if that's the scum team.

Bold tags fixed.

I never said "we shouldn't lynch the lurker." That's a misrep. What I said that I found it strange that after a mislynch wagon (which you were on) you immediately go after a lurker who's off the wagon with relatively weak early-game reasoning. You were on his case early, but misteriously got onto the Delta wagon at just the right time. This smells of scum.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I never said "we shouldn't lynch the lurker." That's a misrep.

No it isn't. You voted me for voting a "lurker".

What I said that I found it strange that after a mislynch wagon (which you were on) you immediately go after a lurker who's off the wagon with relatively weak early-game reasoning. You were on his case early, but misteriously got onto the Delta wagon at just the right time. This smells of scum.

Heh.

Mysteriously got onto the wagon on post 35. Brilliant.

No, I voted for you for instantly going off the Delta wagon to distract the town from yourself and probably your scumbud. The reasons for voting Trez are weak to non-existant and are solely based on very early play.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Bub connection.
Lady doth protest too much thing.

So does that mean you think Bub is scum as well? Just trying to sort out your twisted logic here. And 'lady doth protest too much'? I haven't protested a single thing. My vote was on you on Day 1 because of the crap logic you were using and as soon as you started the same thing back on Day 2 I put my vote back on you.

Astonishingly, yes! I do find the player I've recently FOS'd scum! You protested when you spent an age (Half your post roundabouts) calling your vote non-OMGUS despite nobody suggesting that it was.

Demyx: Are you honestly of the view that people sheeping me because of a brilliant case (the point of cases after all) promotes discussions and arguments? Really?

And what do you think Bub meant by the "mysterious vote" since he's not in a rush to tell us? (Almost as if he's scum just after a mislynch.)

Hah, nice misrep. Here's what I said:

I never said "we shouldn't lynch the lurker." That's a misrep. What I said that I found it strange that after a mislynch wagon (which you were on) you immediately go after a lurker who's off the wagon with relatively weak early-game reasoning. You were on his case early, but misteriously [sic] got onto the Delta wagon at just the right time. This smells of scum.

I never said the vote was mysterious. To the contrary, it makes perfect sense. As scum, you get onboard an early D-1 wagon, and ride on it throughout with little support for your vote. When I said mysteriously, I meant that through all your gyrations throughout the day, your vote still ended up landing on the mislynch wagon. Then you come out and deflect all potential suspision on the wagon by going straight after a lurker who was totally off the wagon.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Honk! Honk! All aboard the mis-rep train! Seriously Empking, you can't just take my words out of context and refute them. That's like, straw man, man. I'm gonna respond to these points one post at a time because my browser's giving me hell if I make a long post, so bear with me.

Yes, you did. See the quote above.

Quote above read:

I never said "we shouldn't lynch the lurker." That's a misrep. What I said that I found it strange that after a mislynch wagon (which you were on) you immediately go after a lurker who's off the wagon with relatively weak early-game reasoning. You were on his case early, but misteriously [sic] got onto the Delta wagon at just the right time. This smells of scum.

I never said the vote itself was mysterious. What I said was that despite all your gyrations D-1 and failure to support the Delta wagon, your vote still "mysteriously" ended up on Delta at the end of the day. Yes, you put it on him early. But you did that after the wagon got going and you never took the vote off and you never really supported the vote well IMO.

[Bub Bidderskins]

To the contrary, it makes perfect sense.

So what's mysterious?

Did you not read any of my post at all? That's a comlete 100% mis-rep, and a classic straw man argument to boot. If you had actually read what I was saying, then you would have known that I said that kind of behavior makes sense from a scum perspective. Meaning that you're scum.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Then you come out and deflect all potential suspision on the wagon by going straight after a lurker who was totally off the wagon.

That's laughable. "By voting a player off the wagon you're calling all those on it unstained angels" [/quote]

That is another total misrep and a blatant overextension of my logic. The fact is that you aren't calling the people on the wagon

anything

. That's right, after a town-flip, you don't go after

anybody

on the wagon at all. You just go right back to the lurker that you voted for early in D-1 without even considering the wagon. "Whelp guys, we just lynched town. Now let's go back to those RVS tells I was talking about on page 3."

Oh and BTW, at that time the reason wasn't enough to vote for him, because you were on the Delta wagon ATM. However, after Delta's become confirmed town, they're good enough now. Right...

[Bub Bidderskins]

So Bub, what's mysterious is that my vote at the end of the day was on my main scum read?

What's mysterious is that you grapped an opportunistic perch on an eventual mislynch early on and hardly supported that vote at all while you silently rode it all the way to the hammer. That's mysterious, from a town perspective in anyway.

[Bub Bidderskins]

In other news, Pyro comes up with yet another diplomatic and totally ineffective post:

We can figure out who is scum going by the theory that scum was on Delta's wagon.Yes, I voted for him, but I can assure you, I am town. Then the was Karne, who did what they said they would and hammer-voted. Kondi, hopped on and stayed on, and is exhibiting some contradictory behaviors. See:

I'll post my reads tomorrow.

I asked you for your reads, over and over and over again, when really I shouldn't have to ask for reads because any town should be providing reads on a regular basis without prompting!

Kondi has yet to do so.
Next is Enomis. I have said that I am willing to accept him as newb-town, but I am willing to consider the possibility that he is indeed scum. My newb-town read is from his setup questions.
Finally, Empking's Alt. Well, he has his reasons for voting Treznor, and what I thought was interesting here is Bud seemingly come to Treznor's defense.
So, looking at the people on the wagon leave me at: Enomis-prob town, kondi-nothing to horrible so far, needs to address what I have brought up, Empking-I also did not like the way he started the day with an empty post vote. Of the people on the Delta wagon, my scum pick would be him.

Now, this leaves us with the people that were not on the wagon. Is it possible that Delta's lynch was entirely town driven? Maybe.

Demyx is full of goodposting, he did a good job of hoping off of Delta's wagon and made it clear why he did. Could be a way for a scum to hop off a townie wagon to use as town points later?

Bud, I agree with his reason for voting empking, and see that he was being misreped by empking. I can see why you suspect me, but my suggestion that we lynch an anti town player vs. a random other player assumes that we have no idea who the scum is.

Treznor is lacking major content, but what is posted feels lurky. I understand being on the road, though.

[Bub Bidderskins]

No vote and no back-up pressure whatsoever.

[Bub Bidderskins]

In other news, Pyro comes up with yet another diplomatic and totally ineffective post:

What, seriously? Pyro's post there is like a goldmine of content compared to half the people in this game. What would an "effective" post even constitute?

Trying too hard to find fault, much?

Question: which is scummier, not posting any content or not posting any content but trying to make it look like you are posting content? Pyro's contribution to the game so far: get on Delta wagon, post list of weak reads (mostly null-reads), do nothing to act upon those reads. That post was full of fluff and fake scumhunting. That's what scum look like when they "scumhunt".

However, he's not the lynch for today. Empking is.