Mini 1269: Murder in OMACEA!! OVER!

[Empking's Alt]

Vote: Karne

- Don't think of OMGUSing me now!

[Empking's Alt]

Vote: enomis

[Empking's Alt]

Unvote, Vote: Delta

- Trying to artificially produce conversations in an artificial and useless manner.

[Empking's Alt]

Alright..... So to get something going....
Deltawave, why did you vote yourself. That vote is not helping in the RVS stage.

That's you trying to get my vote right?

[Empking's Alt]

Alright..... So to get something going....
Deltawave, why did you vote yourself. That vote is not helping in the RVS stage.

That's you trying to get my vote right?

? no? .... Its just trying to get things started and the only strange thing until now is that deltawave selfvoted. Thats all.

Calling Delta + enom scum team. Anyone want to play that game? (name your scumteam.)

[Empking's Alt]

Alright..... So to get something going....
Deltawave, why did you vote yourself. That vote is not helping in the RVS stage.

That's you trying to get my vote right?

? no? .... Its just trying to get things started and the only strange thing until now is that deltawave selfvoted. Thats all.

Calling Delta + enom scum team. Anyone want to play that game? (name your scumteam.)

Grasping at straws much? Looks scummy to me.

FoS: Empking's Alt

Why isn't it a vote?

[Empking's Alt]

Alright..... So to get something going....
Deltawave, why did you vote yourself. That vote is not helping in the RVS stage.

That's you trying to get my vote right?

? no? .... Its just trying to get things started and the only strange thing until now is that deltawave selfvoted. Thats all.

Calling Delta + enom scum team. Anyone want to play that game? (name your scumteam.)

FoS: Empking's Alt

. Do you really think starting this conjecture will be constructive?

Its not a question of "will" its a question of was. It was worth it for 40 & 41.

[Empking's Alt]

You don't have any thoughts regarding the people that put you at L-2?

One of those players are Delta. You're probably town.

[Empking's Alt]

What does post 40 and 41 tell you. Say it out so that we can analyse

40 looks like appeasement and distancing (not putting your vote where your mouth was.)
41 seems to be insincere.

[Empking's Alt]

#41 seems insincere? VOTE: empking's alt does that seem more sincere for you? I agree RVS is basically over at this point.

Not really. It looks like you were forced into it.

Enom; doesn't seem like he was actually suspicious of me.

[Empking's Alt]

#41 seems insincere? VOTE: empking's alt does that seem more sincere for you? I agree RVS is basically over at this point.

Not really. It looks like you were forced into it.

Enom; doesn't seem like he was actually suspicious of me.

Well, i was not then. You make me suspicious of you now. Why do you assume people would be suspicious of you because of that.

Because he FoS'd me.

[Empking's Alt]

enom; Is Delta stuill your second scum read?

[Empking's Alt]

enom; Is Delta stuill your second scum read?

??? what second scum read. If you mean how scummy he is, he is the first on my list.

Change your vote then.

[Empking's Alt]

Oh. And btw, empking, what is your view on the situation now. I realised you have done nothing but post a one sentence post which is not very helpful.

UNVOTE: Unvote

My view is that Delta needs to be lynched.

[Empking's Alt]

My view is that Delta needs to be lynched.

You've been pushing on Enomis more than you have Delta. In fact, you have said very little about Delta apart from saying the lynch policy discussion he started was unhelpful. Why do you think Delta needs to be lynched? Why him over Enomis, who you also seem to have issues with?

Delta needs to be lynched because 1) I'm not learning much recently 2) I'm not wseeing anything pro-active from him.

I've actually changed my mind completely on Enom. I think he's genuinely scumhunting (not all that well).

[Empking's Alt]

This is totally unfounded.

But like you basically did this already, it's your basis of why you think Enomis needs to be lynched!

So no. It's not.

Empking, what do you mean by "I'm not learning much recently"?

My reads aren't being changed. I don't think I've changed my mind in the last five pages on anything (enom was late page three).

[Empking's Alt]

Well folks, it appears we have our first OMGUS vote of the match. I must say, however, I agree with treznor - I don't see what makes his point sincere. Surely you are not going to use the "reaction fishing" argument again, Empking's Alt?

No. (And what do you mean "again"?) It looked insincere because he only FOS'd. His eventual vote is 100% insincere.

[Empking's Alt]

Enomis, in a game this size there is probably only one scum faction and it's yours.

i know there is only one scum faction. So do we know how many mafia members are there? And how many PRs on each side.

You got a role PM that contains all that info, if not check your QuickTopic

He wouldn't know the roles on town's side, silly.

[Empking's Alt]

Enomis, in a game this size there is probably only one scum faction and it's yours.

i know there is only one scum faction. So do we know how many mafia members are there? And how many PRs on each side.

You got a role PM that contains all that info, if not check your QuickTopic

He wouldn't know the roles on town's side, silly.

hmmm.. So emp are you fosing me now?

No. It was a little joke.

[Empking's Alt]

It was early enough in the day that I had no problem with it. And I mean "again" because that's what I interpreted this to mean.

If that's reaction fishing then almost everything is reaction fishing and all questions certainly are.

Kondi; I'll support it as long as you don't need to get lynched

[Empking's Alt]

It was early enough in the day that I had no problem with it. And I mean "again" because that's what I interpreted this to mean.

If that's reaction fishing then almost everything is reaction fishing and all questions certainly are.

What? I don't understand. You said your statement was worth it because of reaction you got as a result.

That

hardly seems like a normal question and answer process. I'll reiterate my question: did you actually believe that that conjecture was valid and added valuable discussion to the game?

Yes. One of the reasons i said it was worth it was post 40, an answer to my question.

[Empking's Alt]

So you truly believe there is evidence for a scumteam on day 1 on day 1? (The awkward wording is correct; there is of course evidence on day one, but it is rarely accessible outside of hindsight.)

Absolutely. I was wrong about my chosen team i9n this case but there's often evidence to speculate about.

[Empking's Alt]

If you don't suspect Enomis, I'll survive somehow. I'll pick myself up off the ground, and dust myself off, and get back on my feet. But Kondi and Empking are both good choices as well. I think their reactions to my wagon are scummy.

Do you guys really want me to claim?

It takes blah blah paraphrase blah lifetime blah blah claim.

[Empking's Alt]

HAMMAR

Good posting. I'm 95% sure you're town.

Mod: Would you mind deleting that?

Done.

[Empking's Alt]

Vote: Trez

[Empking's Alt]

#41 seems insincere? VOTE: empking's alt does that seem more sincere for you? I agree RVS is basically over at this point.

Not really. It looks like you were forced into it.

Enom; doesn't seem like he was actually suspicious of me.

[Empking's Alt]

Vote: Trez

What the hell? Thats like a super early read as compared to what we have the last 200+ post. Give me time to reread before i present a case.

And wohoo!!!! I am not dead.

Early game is best game.

[Empking's Alt]

VOTE: Empking's Alt
Not a retaliation vote (though perhaps Empking's Alt's vote was as I voted him almost the entire day yesterday), but rather putting my vote back where it was yesterday. Empking's Alt's logic was sketchy at best when he tried to explain anything yesterday. As well, if Empking's Alt was trying to pick a lurker, I posted just as often as he did yesterday

1. The lady doth protest too much.
2. Trying to smear my vote on him pretty pathetically.

FOS: Bud

- Trying to protect his buddy ("We can't lynch Trez because he's a lurker"), basically lie ("Empking's opportunistic vote" when it was nothing of the sort) and try and call people scummy for looking off the (pretty awesome) Delta wagon. A wagon that had neither Bub nor Trez on and which Bub would (basically only) be motivated to keep us focused on if that's the scum team.

Bold tags fixed.

[Empking's Alt]

VOTE: Empking's Alt
Not a retaliation vote (though perhaps Empking's Alt's vote was as I voted him almost the entire day yesterday), but rather putting my vote back where it was yesterday. Empking's Alt's logic was sketchy at best when he tried to explain anything yesterday. As well, if Empking's Alt was trying to pick a lurker, I posted just as often as he did yesterday

1. The lady doth protest too much.
2. Trying to smear my vote on him pretty pathetically.

[bn]FOS: Bud[/b] - Trying to protect his buddy ("We can't lynch Trez because he's a lurker"), basically lie ("Empking's opportunistic vote" when it was nothing of the sort) and try and call people scummy for looking off the (pretty awesome) Delta wagon. A wagon that had neither Bub nor Trez on and which Bub would (basically only) be motivated to keep us focused on if that's the scum team.

No. Bub is town FMPOV. and instead of giving your 'The lady doth protest too much.' and 'Trying to smear my vote on him pretty pathetically.', explain yourself on why your vote is not pathetic. Seriously....

Because its not OMGUS or a Lurker vote because I already gave my reasoning.

By Bub is town from your POV are you talking about reads?

[Empking's Alt]

VOTE: Empking's Alt
Not a retaliation vote (though perhaps Empking's Alt's vote was as I voted him almost the entire day yesterday), but rather putting my vote back where it was yesterday. Empking's Alt's logic was sketchy at best when he tried to explain anything yesterday. As well, if Empking's Alt was trying to pick a lurker, I posted just as often as he did yesterday

1. The lady doth protest too much.
2. Trying to smear my vote on him pretty pathetically.

[bn]FOS: Bud[/b] - Trying to protect his buddy ("We can't lynch Trez because he's a lurker"), basically lie ("Empking's opportunistic vote" when it was nothing of the sort) and try and call people scummy for looking off the (pretty awesome) Delta wagon. A wagon that had neither Bub nor Trez on and which Bub would (basically only) be motivated to keep us focused on if that's the scum team.

No. Bub is town FMPOV. and instead of giving your 'The lady doth protest too much.' and 'Trying to smear my vote on him pretty pathetically.', explain yourself on why your vote is not pathetic. Seriously....

Because its not OMGUS or a Lurker vote because I already gave my reasoning.

By Bub is town from your POV are you talking about reads?

Yes it is about reads. And your reasoning is only the insincere part. Really?

Well I like the Bub connection too. Insincerity is the major scum tell in my book though (In general).

[Empking's Alt]

Empking, link me to a game where you found scum with that scumtell.

That's really too much work.

[Empking's Alt]

Empking, link me to a game where you found scum with that scumtell.

That's really too much work.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2999636

[Empking's Alt]

I never said "we shouldn't lynch the lurker." That's a misrep.

No it isn't. You voted me for voting a "lurker".

What I said that I found it strange that after a mislynch wagon (which you were on) you immediately go after a lurker who's off the wagon with relatively weak early-game reasoning. You were on his case early, but misteriously got onto the Delta wagon at just the right time. This smells of scum.

Heh.

Mysteriously got onto the wagon on post 35. Brilliant.

[Empking's Alt]

I never said "we shouldn't lynch the lurker." That's a misrep.

No it isn't. You voted me for voting a "lurker".

What I said that I found it strange that after a mislynch wagon (which you were on) you immediately go after a lurker who's off the wagon with relatively weak early-game reasoning. You were on his case early, but misteriously got onto the Delta wagon at just the right time. This smells of scum.

Heh.

Mysteriously got onto the wagon on post 35. Brilliant.

No look here.Your insincere reasons is not convincing at all. you are not going to get any guy on the treznor wagon for that reason. You need to make a CASE. Like the one i am waiting from kondi.

1. Why did you quote that?
2. I want people to vote the player they find scummiest, not the player I find scummiest nor the player who its easiest to make a case on.

[Empking's Alt]

Demyx: Am I to presume that you agree that my vote for Delta was mysteriously just at the right time?

[Empking's Alt]

2. No. You should want other people to vote who you think are scummiest. Since from your point of view, treznor is the scummiest. Look here, whats the point of being able to find the so called 'scummiest person' with nobody following you on your wagon and they went on to lynch another guy.

You presume that I think my reads are the be all and end all. They're not.

[Empking's Alt]

2. No. You should want other people to vote who you think are scummiest. Since from your point of view, treznor is the scummiest. Look here, whats the point of being able to find the so called 'scummiest person' with nobody following you on your wagon and they went on to lynch another guy.

You presume that I think my reads are the be all and end all. They're not.

But you should try to convince us. Make us look in your point of view. Then we can analyse the reasons from there. Not like this where you keep the things to yourself.

I'm not keeping things to myself. I've said everything.

[Empking's Alt]

2. No. You should want other people to vote who you think are scummiest. Since from your point of view, treznor is the scummiest. Look here, whats the point of being able to find the so called 'scummiest person' with nobody following you on your wagon and they went on to lynch another guy.

You presume that I think my reads are the be all and end all. They're not.

But you should try to convince us. Make us look in your point of view. Then we can analyse the reasons from there. Not like this where you keep the things to yourself.

I'm not keeping things to myself. I've said everything.

Ok then. Give me 2 more reasons why treznor is scum besides the insincere things.

Bub connection.
Lady doth protest too much thing.

[Empking's Alt]

Bub connection.
Lady doth protest too much thing.

So does that mean you think Bub is scum as well? Just trying to sort out your twisted logic here. And 'lady doth protest too much'? I haven't protested a single thing. My vote was on you on Day 1 because of the crap logic you were using and as soon as you started the same thing back on Day 2 I put my vote back on you.

Astonishingly, yes! I do find the player I've recently FOS'd scum! You protested when you spent an age (Half your post roundabouts) calling your vote non-OMGUS despite nobody suggesting that it was.

Demyx: Are you honestly of the view that people sheeping me because of a brilliant case (the point of cases after all) promotes discussions and arguments? Really?

And what do you think Bub meant by the "mysterious vote" since he's not in a rush to tell us? (Almost as if he's scum just after a mislynch.)

[Empking's Alt]

Bub connection.
Lady doth protest too much thing.

So does that mean you think Bub is scum as well? Just trying to sort out your twisted logic here. And 'lady doth protest too much'? I haven't protested a single thing. My vote was on you on Day 1 because of the crap logic you were using and as soon as you started the same thing back on Day 2 I put my vote back on you.

Astonishingly, yes! I do find the player I've recently FOS'd scum! You protested when you spent an age (Half your post roundabouts) calling your vote non-OMGUS despite nobody suggesting that it was.

Demyx: Are you honestly of the view that people sheeping me because of a brilliant case (the point of cases after all) promotes discussions and arguments? Really?

And what do you think Bub meant by the "mysterious vote" since he's not in a rush to tell us? (Almost as if he's scum just after a mislynch.)

Hah, nice misrep. Here's what I said:

I never said "we shouldn't lynch the lurker." That's a misrep. What I said that I found it strange that after a mislynch wagon (which you were on) you immediately go after a lurker who's off the wagon with relatively weak early-game reasoning. You were on his case early, but misteriously [sic] got onto the Delta wagon at just the right time. This smells of scum.

I never said the vote was mysterious.

Yes, you did. See the quote above.

To the contrary, it makes perfect sense.

So what's mysterious?

As scum, you get onboard an early D-1 wagon, and ride on it throughout with little support for your vote. When I said mysteriously, I meant that through all your gyrations throughout the day, your vote still ended up landing on the mislynch wagon.

Which makes no sense?

Then you come out and deflect all potential suspision on the wagon by going straight after a lurker who was totally off the wagon.

That's laughable. "By voting a player off the wagon you're calling all those on it unstained angels"

[Empking's Alt]

Then you come out and deflect all potential suspision on the wagon by going straight after a lurker who was totally off the wagon.

That's laughable. "By voting a player off the wagon you're calling all those on it unstained angels"

That is another total misrep and a blatant overextension of my logic. The fact is that you aren't calling the people on the wagon

anything

. That's right, after a town-flip, you don't go after

anybody

on the wagon at all. You just go right back to the lurker that you voted for early in D-1 without even considering the wagon. "Whelp guys, we just lynched town. Now let's go back to those RVS tells I was talking about on page 3."
[/quote]

Yes which is perfectly reasonable.

Oh and BTW, at that time the reason wasn't enough to vote for him, because you were on the Delta wagon ATM. However, after Delta's become confirmed town, they're good enough now. Right...

Yes. That makes complete logical sense.

So Bub, what's mysterious is that my vote at the end of the day was on my main scum read?

Enom: Both town. Kondi moreso.

Pyro; What's "mysterious" according to Bub?

[Empking's Alt]

So Bub, what's mysterious is that my vote at the end of the day was on my main scum read?

What's mysterious is that you grapped an opportunistic perch on an eventual mislynch early on and hardly supported that vote at all while you silently rode it all the way to the hammer. That's mysterious, from a town perspective in anyway.

What's mysterious about it?
That is lead to a mislynch?Because normally they never do?
That I didn't try to derail my preferred wagon? Because town are wont to do that?
What's mysterious about it?

Also, what was opportunistic about my vote?

[Empking's Alt]

Kondi is coming 100% from a town POV (my POV). Pyro also seems to be scumhunting.

[Empking's Alt]

Kondi is coming 100% from a town POV (my POV). Pyro also seems to be scumhunting.

Really? let me summarise what kondi has done. First, vote delta for some reasons. Secondly, vote me with no case. thirdly, change vote to delta with no case again. Lastly, ask me to give 13 reasons why he should selfvote. So this is from a town POV huh? Really?. So this is your point of view huh.

Yeah. The 13 reasons comment was also pretty funny.

[Empking's Alt]

Kondi is coming 100% from a town POV (my POV). Pyro also seems to be scumhunting.

Really? let me summarise what kondi has done. First, vote delta for some reasons. Secondly, vote me with no case. thirdly, change vote to delta with no case again. Lastly, ask me to give 13 reasons why he should selfvote. So this is from a town POV huh? Really?. So this is your point of view huh.

Yeah. The 13 reasons comment was also pretty funny.

no. give me how his pov is town.

Because it is? Because of town was reading the game they'd think the same things as Kondi? I know that because I think the same things.

[Empking's Alt]

Because it is? Because of town was reading the game they'd think the same things as Kondi? I know that because I think the same things.

What? No firstly, not every town thinks the same way.

Doesn't matter. Though I'd agree that "thinking differently=/= scum" that doesn't mean "thinking the same =/= town".

Secondly, explain on how he is thinking the same things as you. I cant find any similarities other than the delta wagon. He is fosing me and demyx while you are fosing bub and treznor. How is that the same?

That's not the same. Though our main D2 paradigm is different our smaller points are still similar.

[Empking's Alt]

Empking, link me to a game where you found scum with that scumtell.

No kondi, answer demyx and my questions first.

I'll do that right away, sir.

enomis, I demand that you give me 13 reasons why I should be voting myself in your next post.

@enomis: Citizen was likely killed because she was obvious town and was a logical poster.

several of the votes were crap (Empking and Kondi)

My vote was crap? Explain.

(I'll point out now that I didn't necessarily post things that agreed with these because they're not necessarily game relevant.)

[Empking's Alt]

Empking, link me to a game where you found scum with that scumtell.

No kondi, answer demyx and my questions first.

I'll do that right away, sir.

enomis, I demand that you give me 13 reasons why I should be voting myself in your next post.

@enomis: Citizen was likely killed because she was obvious town and was a logical poster.

several of the votes were crap (Empking and Kondi)

My vote was crap? Explain.

(I'll point out now that I didn't necessarily post things that agreed with these because they're not necessarily game relevant.)

[Empking's Alt]

No they're similarities.

[Empking's Alt]

Empking, link me to a game where you found scum with that scumtell.

No kondi, answer demyx and my questions first.

I'll do that right away, sir.

enomis, I demand that you give me 13 reasons why I should be voting myself in your next post.

@enomis: Citizen was likely killed because she was obvious town and was a logical poster.

several of the votes were crap (Empking and Kondi)

My vote was crap? Explain.

(I'll point out now that I didn't necessarily post things that agreed with these because they're not necessarily game relevant.)

how is "i'll do that right away sir" a similarity. You must note that Kondi never answered my question. And how is " i demand that you give me 13 reasons why I should be voting myself in your next post" a similarity. WTF?

Because its what I was thinking.

[Empking's Alt]

Kondi is coming 100% from a town POV (my POV). Pyro also seems to be scumhunting.

It figures you'd think Kondi was 100% town since you both refuse to give reads or information of any sort no matter how hard you're badgered.

Did we seriously start with three people out of nine who are/were religiously opposed to reads and discussion? My head hurts.

I've given reads. I've given reasons for reads. How can you possibly say "No wonder you give a town read on Kondi you refuse to give reads"?

Do you agree wityh Bub now about my "mysterious" vote?

[Empking's Alt]

Your original vote for Treznor had no reason attached, and later you made up reasons which are frankly crap. You've posted almost nothing on anyone else except having an issue with Bub's wording. That's how I can say what I said.

They're perfectly good reasons.

I think mysterious is a poor choice of wording, but the substance of what Bub is saying is basically the same reason I've originally voted for you. You made an early vote on a likely lynch and rode it out to the end without making any notable contribution the rest of the day.

Why do you say its a likely lynch?

Also is "You were on his case early, but misteriously [sic] got onto the Delta wagon at just the right time. This smells of scum." really the same as " You made an early vote on a likely lynch and rode it out to the end without making any notable contribution the rest of the day."? You've decided I'm scum and are ignoring the evidence that Bub and Trez are scum really eager for a mislynch. (Seriously, they're going "Prove that he's town!". And you're ignoring that because you've got an inane picture in your mind.)

[Empking's Alt]

They're perfectly good reasons.

Multiple people have pointed out why they don't think they are so I'm not getting into this with you again. It's obvious you can't be convinced. But on the flip side, you should accept that unless you convince me that the criticisms of your reasons are invalid, I'm not going to consider your reasons good.

Why do you say its a likely lynch?

Belligerent and unhelpful players like Delta was yesterday collect votes and are likely lynch targets pretty much without fail.

Also is "You were on his case early, but misteriously [sic] got onto the Delta wagon at just the right time. This smells of scum." really the same as " You made an early vote on a likely lynch and rode it out to the end without making any notable contribution the rest of the day."?

Did you miss Bub's clarification?

See that's tunnel visioness completely. Bub says one thing, gets called out on it, changes his story completely and rather than compounding his scumminess you decide it wipes his slate utterly clean. That's wrong.

[Empking's Alt]

Can anyone make a case for him being town?

[Empking's Alt]

Can anyone make a case for him being town?

Glad you quoted this Empking's Alt. Looks like everyone has rushed to your defense. *Crickets chirping*

Almost as if nobody knows my alignment and has a motive for keeping me alive.