Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[Grimmjow]

/confirm

[Grimmjow]

I'm here, I just don't have anything really to throw out there yet. Trying to get a read of people and playstyles before I make any judgement calls. No worries, though.

I will say that if Pine is scum, I should quit this game. He's pretty obvtown. Maybe a little off based, but yeah.

[Grimmjow]

Also, I don't really know what to make of Reck this game, yet.

P-EDIT: I have been told that ellipses do tend to indicate scum, but I use ellipses a lot as well, even when not scum, so for me, it's more null then anything.

[Grimmjow]

OMFG WTF WHAT HAPPENED WHILE I WAS AT WORK? HOW DID TWO NEW PAGES ALREADY SHOW UP? AHHHHHHH?

That sounds like participation to me, Voided...

Anyway, I have to catch up, and it's already after 2 here, so I'm gonna have to do that tomorrow :/

Did this guy just claim? WTF. L-2 and no one was talking about a hammer, so I'm def reading him as scum right now. PI, you might want to start talking and convincing us that you actually are VT...

FoS: PI

[Grimmjow]

EBWOP: BAM

[Grimmjow]

Why is he a liability? And you never said RVS votes, you just said town games. During RVS, I can't find one that I have as town.

[Grimmjow]

It's not ellipses during speech that bothers me, it's the "Interesting..." type posts that trail off in an ellipses without any conclusion.

Sometimes maybe people just don't want to reveal their train of thought just yet (DOT DOT DOT)

[Grimmjow]

Soda's RVS vote after RVS was really weird to me, because if he had been reading the thread (which with only 3 pages at the time, not hard) he would have known we were out of RVS when people said "WE'RE OUT OF RVS." However, his "getting jumped" post actually rings town to me, only because of a game we have played in previously.

Also, Sleepy gives me the heeby jeebies. Gut scum-read. Maybe I just that I haven't played with him since forever ago.

[Grimmjow]

I just can't seem to get over the "jumped" post. Yes, it's scummy (his RVS-non-RVS post), but that just makes me like eeeeeeehhhhh.

[Grimmjow]

Hey, look, it's a fluff post ^^
Seems like you've been doing that a lot...

Anyway, I suck at reads D1, and I don't like throwing out votes/FoS's/etc until all the players have posted more that ONCE. I especially like it when the late players come in because I feel it makes it easier for me to figure out who's scum and who's town based on what they say of the thread.

However, fluff posts are not pro-town. Ya know?

[Grimmjow]

Why are you concerned with looking townie(r)?

[Grimmjow]

Pine just reads town to me. He seems to be asking legit questions and trying to get down to what people actually mean. It's town play.

[Grimmjow]

Did not answer.

[Grimmjow]

I have been drinking and therefore will not be posting anymore tonight after this post.

Asking someone

So what about me makes me townie(r)?

is completely different than asking someone "What do you consider townie?" The former implies that you are trying to figure out how to act more pro-town to that person; the latter implies you are trying to figure out what a person's thought process is to determine what makes someone town. You did the former. Therefore, it seems to me, that you are trying to figure out how to be perceived as more town. Which is a scum motive.

[Grimmjow]

ITT FoN makes no sense. That was the weakest case I've seen since I was in a newbie game. I'll ignore it for now, but keep doing shit like that and you're gonna be on muh shit-list.

[Grimmjow]

Welp, I'm always hesitant to believe a miller claim. Some

asshole

guy in my last game claimed miller, but ended up not being miller or mafia, so yeah. Other than that, fairly unimpressed with Furcolow.

[Grimmjow]

HOW IS THIS PRODUCTIVE AT ALL.

[Grimmjow]

And all your talk about whatever the fuck that shit is is actually useful? No. My statement was an attempt to get us back on track.

[Grimmjow]

@kondi: Why the hell did you come in and place a vote without any reasoning whatsoever?

@FoN: Just because I don't want to place my vote anywhere right now doesn't indicate scumminess. As a matter of fact, I like to play my games pretty close to vest, and if you care to look back through my previous games, I don't place a vote on someone unless I'm sure of my vote and it typically stays there for quite a while. So get off my ass.

As far as my "not doing anything" goes, I'm not the only one. And all I see right now is a you and Reck bitching back and forth about essentially nothing that makes a damn bit of difference, but both of you agreeing Triangle is scum, but I don't really see the rationale behind it. The only other real thing that's happening in this game is Sleepy making a shit ton of fluff posts and not really doing anything either except distracting the town. Yates walks in and I don't like his posts either, but I don't have anything solid yet to get going on. Trust me, when I do get something, I will go with it.

[Grimmjow]

I am far too hungover for this game right now. I will get back into the game later this evening.

[Grimmjow]

Do you have any actual townreads?

There's no one I have identified as "absolutely positively" townie. I think that will require investigation information or confirmed scum hunting success. My "less than suspicious" list would be the people I would investigate later [after checking on more suspicious characters] if I had a cop/investigator role.

A good half of the "town" has yet to contribute anything substantive at this early juncture in the game.

you do realize town makes up a majority of the game so saying you have varying degrees of scumreads but no townreads is a terrible way of doing this

However Yates is probably town for post 296 alone

That's funny, because I felt that post was a wee bit insincere. Though I understand the sarcasm in the first paragraph, and his rationale behind the second, I feel like he was kind of looking for a reason to vote Triangle to begin with, since it is a major wagon. And I was also a bit confused by his scum/town lists. Pine, to me, has been playing a fairly standard town game, so he's been in my town category for a while now. Implosion I'm null on. And kondi is actually shaded a little town to me. The random vote with no explanation on someone that no one was really suspicious of typically comes across as town to me, mostly because I feel like scum would feel the need to back up their votes to try and blend more.

Triangle, however, does look scummy.
1) I feel like she took my "Pine is town" comment and ran with it to see if anyone else would pick it up. Also, I would note that the only day that Triangle posted more than one time that day was the day she called me out. Which makes me immediately think that she was trying to see who else would run with her vote on me and be there to back it up.

2) I will agree with what she said about Yates, however, early on in that he wasn't contributing much.

3) Post 265 drives me up a fucking wall. Voting for someone that others found scummy IS actually a scum tactic. Nice of you, however, to back it up with flimsy reasoning. Your reasoning was basically this: he hasn't posted much (just like several other players in the game) and when he did post, it wasn't much in the way of content (just like several other people in the game); he also posted a few comments that were OBVIOUSLY sarcastic, but you don't seem to think so (why?); he also does seem to be thinking about the game and making it obvious he's doing so, so when he makes comments like "Intriguing" it means that he's thinking from scum mentality rather than town. I don't buy it. It's a pathetically weak case, it's crap IMO, and it was basically an attempt to blend in with a potentially beginning wagon since others have stated that they find him scummy.

4) The comment about Soda voting Triangle because of her vote on Yates is utter crap. Triangle makes a weak case and then votes Yates after FoN FoS'd Yates, and then unvotes Triangle. Triangle's vote here seems opportunistic. Like I said previously, it seemed like an attempt to blend in with a potentially beginning wagon. ON THE FLIP SIDE, Soda's vote on Triangle was produced because Soda saw the vote as opportunistic. Soda voted Triangle without any prodding from anyone (though Reck's comment immediately afterward does bug me slightly).

All in all, let's rope up Triangle and see her scummy ass dead.

Vote: Triangle

[Grimmjow]

(today is SA's or DGB's turn, you'll get yours)

Wrong game, buddy.

[Grimmjow]

Hey all. Sorry, been busy as fuck with work. I'll work on this tomorrow (tonight's Reck and my anniversary) so I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Grimmjow]

AND HE HASN'T SAID ANYTHING ABOUT RECK, WHO HE OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE INSIGHT ON, OTHER THAN THAT HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF HIM. He's of course happy to co-wagon though.

Ok, so I am, like Reck said, am out of town, and therefore not able to really put a lot of effort into this just yet, but I did come across this, and it stuck out to me.

I cannot read Reck in games. Hell, I can hardly read him IRL. So this is based purely on conjecture, which is totally wrong, but you you're making this part of the case on me? That's bullshit, sorry.

I'll figure this out when I get home tonight (assuming I'm not fucking exhausted from driving all evening). So yeah, we have a few more days now, which is awesome because that means I actually will be able to get into this game since I'll have more free time coming up.

[Grimmjow]

SKrew's lynch is bad. I agree he's been basically useless and raging/fluffing/etc, but I'm not quite sure that relates to scuminess.

[Grimmjow]

Go back to your corner, SK. Adults are talking.

[Grimmjow]

I've quit reading FoN's posts. The back and forth between Pine and FoN over this idea of intimidation is useless. Let's move on.

Vote: Uphill

I'll explain tonight, as I have to get read for work soon and don't have time to write it up.

[Grimmjow]

Ok, guys, I know how horribly I've been playing. Been distracted, recently. I'm going to work tomorrow morning/early afternoon on catching up and I'm going to be more active in this game. Sorry.

[Grimmjow]

FoN: The reason that I called your case weak was because it was weak. It made very little sense, was difficult to follow, had a nice sprinkle of WIFOM in it, and a LOT of speculation that also had other completely valid reasons. I don't really feel like putting in the effort to write out a monologue discussing your two ridiculous posts, but if you really want me to, I will. I don't really feel the need to defend Reck's position in this game, as the jury is still out on him as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, I have read through the game, but there's so fucking much. I still stand by "Pine is town" statement from earlier, especially after that ridiculous wagon on him.

Town:
Pine

Leaning town:
FoN

Null:
Reck
Alex
Furc

Leaning scum:
Yates
Soda
Uphill

More to come after work (should be a relatively early night for me).

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask me. I'm going to ISO my scum suspects tonight and look at interactions with the Triangle wagon and the counter wagon(s) as well. Again, I'm sorry for being so not in the game recently.

[Grimmjow]

Don't worry. He's pegging you and Soda as his mislynches, while Distancing from Uphill. He's p. much scum too.

-LLD

How does this? It makes no sense. Who the fuck is going to listen to me at this point anyway? I've done basically nothing. So how is this setting up mislynches or distancing? I don't even.

[Grimmjow]

Soooo, I've been reading up on Soda recently. Not liking what I've read. I'll post thoughts tomorrow after class.

[Grimmjow]

Yates is harmless as of right now. And, just so you know, I'm writing up my thoughts right now.

[Grimmjow]

Wall incoming.

Spoiler:

I'd rather be a dinosaur chicken nugget over scum/town tbqh. Those things are legit!

I don't understand how you would rather be in the gray area rather than being clearly town. That seems very odd to me.

No real thoughts as of yet. Played with Furc before he was terribad scum once, however I don't see his lynch going through because of the ellipses, but that was a little bit all, but I agree with whoever said that isn't a scum-tell if they post ellipsis' because I do the same thing whether scum or not.

This seems like terrible fence sitting to me. Well, that's mostly dependent upon what he means by "that was a little bit all." I'm assuming here that "all" actually was supposed to be "odd." In which case, he's saying "This isn't a reason to lynch someone, but it's really weird, but don't do it, and I do it as both scum and town." There's no real stance here.

Time to pressure some people. I'm like 95.7% sure I found scum on page 1. Post 1.

What is the point of putting a pressure vote on someone when you call it a pressure vote? Because I would think it would void the pressure simply because it's not an actual intent to lynch. Again, this seems like an attempt to fence sit. That way, if the Per lynch had gone through and he flipped town, SS would have easily been able to say "oh, my vote was just for pressure, I didn't actually think he was scum."

FOS PINE

Keep this in mind for a bit.

Next post, Sleepy votes SS. SS responds with "Why?" which Sleepy (correctly) states "RVS is over." Once Implosion jumps on the wagon, SS unvotes, saying "oh, well the Furc wagon's legit apparently, but I thought it was an RVS vote too." Well, ok, I can kinda understand that, but the heatedness (is that even a word?) of the debate at the time should have made it apparent to everyone that it wasn't really an RVS vote. This is all within 6 posts of each other. Seems like scared scum to me.

eb4p: cool I'm getting jumped and I just started. Life is GREAT!

This is the quote that really made me think that SS was town. Ongoing game, so I can't comment further, but this makes me think town.

Well? Most 'keyword most' of the people haven't posted enough info to gather much info. The only things eventful that happened were Furcowgon, Grimmjow saying he would quit if Pine was scum, and now this wagon. None of the former 2 were scum-tells.

Someone else posted this, but I felt it was necessary to repost it. He's saying only 3 things happened in the game at this point, the last of which was his wagon. He then says that the other two weren't scum-tells. This implies he thinks the third IS a scum wagon, which could indicate guilt.

I hate it when people say someone's a liability, we're all one town, everybody should have a say in everything, and everyone should listen,

but not act accordingly necessarily.

Can you clarify what you mean here, especially the bolded part?

In post 149 he says that the Triangle vote was horrible, that Llama's flip-floping is null, but usually a scum-tell (fence sitting again, and

why is it null for Llama if it's

usually

a scum-tell?

) and then finally throws down his first real vote on Sleepy, which seems like nothing more than a blatant belated OMGUS vote. He called Triangle's vote on me bad, and then throws down an equally bad vote. Something isn't right here.

This post bugs me as well. He says that Yates feels wrong to him, but votes Triangle (who we know was scum) based on "Triangle voted Yates right after Llama FoS'd Yates." His was the second vote on the wagon just after FoN unvoted, which was pretty even with a couple of other wagons.

Filler, filler, filler.

States reads on Uphill-town, Implosion-unlikely-scum, Yates-more-likely-town.

Post 493 he gets VERY defensive over Pine being called scum by Sleepy for a bullshit "claim" that never really happened. This could be seen as town defending town, as I have a strong town read on Pine as well, which I'm more inclined to believe after having gone through this much of his ISO.

Then, almost 100 posts later...

hmm... Pine was one of my foses as well, not sure if I made that public, but I think I did.

Hey, remember that post I told you to keep in mind way back at the beginning of this ISO thingie? Yeah. Also, I put the url up there for others to go back and look at it in context.

Everything about this post bothers me. He fence sits, says that he wants to hear more of Yates, says Uproar (Uphill?) has done well and then says:

I had a really bad feeling about implosion, but I never really pursued trying to lynch him thankfully.

I CANNOT understand this statement from a town mind-set. If you're town and you have a bad feeling about someone, pursue it. Either they will crumble under pressure, or they will be able to defend themselves adequately. I have never been in a situation in which I was on the wagon for a town mislynch that I honestly felt bad about, because I felt like the person lynched was scum. But it's the second part of this statement that bugs me the most. He said he was glad he didn't pursue his lynch. Keeping in mind that if I feel like someone may be scum, I intend to put pressure on them. If my feelings change, then I unvote. Otherwise, I keep my vote on them.
If I read this from a scum-mindset, I can totally understand this, however. It sounds like he was glad he didn't bring attention to himself. That's what I'm getting from this entire thing. Not that he's glad he didn't put pressure down because implosion was town, but because he didn't want the attention. At least, that's how I feel about this statement.

Filler, filler, filler.

Post 871
FoN is at L-2, but doesn't want to vote him because of quickhammer (totally understand that, but the day had LITERALLY just started) and says he wants a claim. Wait, didn't SS vote Sleepy because Sleepy wanted a claim at L-3 on him?

Next, he says he's suspicious of Yates again because of the quickhammer. He's flip flopped on Yates a LOT, hasn't he. This brings back to mind when he said that FoN's flip-flopping was usually a scum-tell but not in FoN's case. Well, flip-flopping is usually a scum-tell.

Another post that bugs me. He says worst-case is that FoN's not lynched, another townie is lynched, and FoN gets shot during Night for being a PR. He then goes on to say that worst-case isn't all that bad. But it is. Because we lose not only a townie, but two townies, one of which is a PR. So yes, yes it is bad. This also kinda sounds like role-fishing, or could be coaching his buddy into claiming a PR (which is not very likely, imo, as everyone in FoN is a seasoned player (as far as we know) and this would just be dumb).

He continues to state that "I'm going to vote you/I'm willing to vote you/consider my vote on you." Not bad scum tactic as this would prevent him from being on the actual wagon if FoN flipped town and he could say "Oh, well, I wasn't actually on the wagon, so my suspicion was less than that of those on the wagon."

Sounds like setting up mislynches.
Scum: 7.5/10

Vote: Soda

Hey, Soda, old buddy, I've got a few questions/thoughts for you in that giant wall in there. Can you clarify things for me?

[Grimmjow]

2. Reck and Force of Storm are scum together. I've had a pet theory for a while that a great way to be scum would be to get into a long and drawn out pissing match with a scum buddy. One that made people's eyes glaze over. And that's what I'm picking up here. The fighting seems to be so much fluff and so little good arguments. In particular, I saw the way Reck was all "rant rant rant Force rant rant rant Force must be scum" and then at the flick of a switch had decided that Force was not possibly scum"

Congrats bro you've won the pants-on-head challenge because if anyone can look at me vs FoN vs triangle and call that bussing then they're missing a brain cell or a million

Care to explain why? I've actually had this inkling for a while now as well.

[Grimmjow]

2. Reck and Force of Storm are scum together. I've had a pet theory for a while that a great way to be scum would be to get into a long and drawn out pissing match with a scum buddy. One that made people's eyes glaze over. And that's what I'm picking up here. The fighting seems to be so much fluff and so little good arguments. In particular, I saw the way Reck was all "rant rant rant Force rant rant rant Force must be scum" and then at the flick of a switch had decided that Force was not possibly scum"

Congrats bro you've won the pants-on-head challenge because if anyone can look at me vs FoN vs triangle and call that bussing then they're missing a brain cell or a million

Care to explain why? I've actually had this inkling for a while now as well.

> I pushed for triangle's lynch from about halfway through D1 until the very end

You're known for bussing, and I think you made an offhanded comment to me at one time that you bus one of your scumbuddies hard D1 to give yourself townpoints.

> FoN changed his mind back and forth on triangle and was hesitant to jump on the wagon

As scum, you probably told your scumbuddies that you were going to be bussing like crazy D1 in the QT N0. Which means FoN would know to not take a firm stance.

> FoN immediately pressured me as well

so that when you got lynched and flipped scum, he'd be clear.

So unless you think I was bussing triangle while FoN bussed me and triangle did whateverthefuck then no it's a completely outlandish theory

It isn't a completely outlandish theory. Triangle gave me the vibe of newbie rolling over and dying. Which doesn't seem right. I've seen many more newb-scum push hard in defense. Granted, their defense was lacking, but they didn't roll over and die like Triangle basically did. That gives me the vibe of crazy BUSBUSBUSBUS. And I can easily see you doing it. I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty close to it. FoN I'm not sure that they're scum, but I can see this too.

Vote:Reck

[Grimmjow]

1) I'm also known for defending my buddies to the goddamn death. Tell me, what excellent meta do you have on me? Which of my games have you taken the time to sit down and read in order to KNOW that I'm supposedly so renown for bussing? And yes, I made a comment to you about D1 bussing before, in which I said if I'm going to bus D1, I bus hard and I don't let off the gas for anything. ...Unlike in this situation, where I got cold feet on triangle, went over to SleepyKrew, then ended up switching back to triangle.

No, the comment that you made to me was that you would sometimes bus hard D1, and sometimes you let your scumbuddy know, and sometimes you don't and it comes out of nowhere. Also, if you'd really like to know (I haven't actually read the game) but just in the 2 minutes of looking through your previous games, I did come across this game where you did bus, get off the wagon, bus, get off the wagon, and bus more to the lynch of your scumbuddy D1.

2) WHEEEE THROWING OUT UNSUBSTANTIATED THEORIES WITH NO GROUNDING IN EVIDENCE OR LOGIC!!! Here, I can do it too:
"You probably told your buddies in the QT that you were actually an alien lifeform hiding on earth but then the government came and captured you which is why you've been lurking so much"
Isn't this fun? Though if I were to TRY to address your post... why would FoN knowing I was bussing cause him to not take a firm stance?

Love the distraction method you used here. I come at you with my reasoning in a calm form, and you make a mockery of it. Not cool. But thanks.

3) You do realize the mere fact you're questioning all of this makes your third point invalid, right? Being on a scumlynch doesn't clear anyone worth shit because people end up doing this ridiculous shit where it's like NO NO, IT'S A BUS, THE MOST ELABORATE BUS IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT WAGON WAS ACTUALLY TOWN DRIVEN AND ORGANIC, FUCKING BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUS

wut?

And just so no one gets confused

But tell me

Brock

Grimm why are you suddenly like "lol nvm ab Soda's slot due to Seacore". You went from posting a fucking wall of a case on him to going OH NVM I AGREE WITH WHAT HE'S SAYING

You know what "fishiness" happened? You did. I have actually been reading the game, and putting my thoughts together. I hate playing games with you because your defense typically turns out to be like your response to my point number two, and it gets me nowhere. But that's aside from the matter. I was reading up on the game and I couldn't put triangle and soda together in my head that would make sense. You, however, did make sense.

Speaking of Soda, it seems really odd to me that you were waiting for my game with him to end for you to be able to use that game/meta against him (you kept asking me for my opinion on him as thought you were going to sheep me if I found him scummy) yet you said that he wasn't a lynch target for you because he was scum counterwagon.

I'm going to have to go back and read more on this.

Reck, I do have a question for you though. I never really could understand what your case was on Triangle. I wrote up mine, but before all that, what was yours?

[Grimmjow]

Also, sorry about the wall, peeps.

[Grimmjow]

GF and Miller in the same game with a Cop? I'm not seeing it.

[Grimmjow]

No, I've responded to your points in a logical manner, and used ridiculous logic to defend against one ridiculous point. And please explain to me how SODA AND TRIANGLE is harder to believe than ME TRIANGLE AND FON.

Soda doesn't comment on Triangle much, and when he does, it doesn't make much sense. Soda's very... to use your phrasing... derp. His first comment about Triangle was that his vote on me was terrible. The second was some weird logic that made him vote triangle, and stick to that vote until lynch. Which was a long fucking time. Too long for a bus that he didn't push hard, imo. However, your push on Triangle does fit my idea of a bus. Not just laying down a vote, but PUSHING that lynch.

What the fuck? I'm NOT using the meta against him. I've mentioned the meta SEVERAL times in this game to prove WHY HE'S PROBABLY TOWN, not WHY HE'S SCUM. He was lurky/derpy there, he's lurky/derpy here. I've explained this. Where are you getting that I'm using Trouble in Paradise to call him scum?

I may have misinterpreted your intentions, then. It seemed to me that you were trying to get me to condemn him rather than clear him. ::shrug:: I can see his scumminess, but I feel you are scum.

Reck, I do have a question for you though. I never really could understand what your case was on Triangle. I wrote up mine, but before all that, what was yours?

Oh hey, another thing I've explained over and over and even quoted. But I guess I can state it AGAIN -- triangle was declaring town/scumreads flippantly with no real substance or reasoning behind it. She called you scum for thinking Pine was obvtown, but completely ignored the fact that I called Furc obvscum. Declaring reads so willy-nilly is a scumtell.[/quote]
So your whole case was based off ONE scumtell? And that made you pursue her with such force that you ignored others' scuminess? Reading back through your ISO, you call a LOT of people scummy, but you hold your vote on Triangle for (what I can see) one scumtell, and then the rest of your "case" to me seems to be nothing more than "If you can't tell what my case is, you haven't been reading." It doesn't sit right with me.

[Grimmjow]

but you're specifically saying it's me/FoN/triangle and I cannot wrap my mind around what kind of moonlogic is used to reach that conclusion.

I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty close to it. FoN I'm not sure that they're scum, but I can see this too.

wut?

[Grimmjow]

The comment I was making here was that I wasn't 100% on you/Triangle, not you/Triangle/FoN.

[Grimmjow]

Also: Thanksgiving things.

V/LA until Friday-ish, maybe even Monday, depending on what happens.

[Grimmjow]

Not buying it.

[Grimmjow]

I am still V/LA until tomorrow (AND RECK SHOULD BE AS WELL SINCE IT'S OUT ANNIVERSARY)

[Grimmjow]

You are

seriously

desperate to get me lynched and I'm not understanding why.

Thought: because you're scum.

[Grimmjow]

Thought: I have, haven't I? Oh yes. My case on Triangle, and my case on you (and responses to your little emotional temper tantrum) were all content, were they not?

[Grimmjow]

I'm not a fan of the massclaim idea. If we do out a cop, then, welp, they're dead overnight. If not, then there's still an opportunity for the cop to catch scum. Also, the cop doesn't HAVE to claim for us to know who their clears are if they were to die overnight. He/she could crumb it, and if they died, then all we'd have to do is look back at the crumb.

I still say Reck is our best chance to hit scum.

[Grimmjow]

Reck, FoN, and Furc: who do you consider the scummiest toDay and why? You don't have a vote placed, and I'm curious to know why.