Mini 342-Mlakerville-Game Over

Patrick · Post Post #11 (isolation #0) » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:10 pm

Vote: dahen

Patrick · Post Post #33 (isolation #1) » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:32 am

Is two away from a lynch so bad? If two ppl speedlynch now we should rejoice, because we've caught two scum. No mafia is going to be that stupid. In fact

FoS PBug

because as an experienced player I'm sure you would have known this. I think you're being oppotunistic.

Patrick · Post Post #39 (isolation #2) » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:22 am

FoS

twito as well, for being bloodthirsty/bagonwagon happy. I mean the whole objection to dahens actions are that he was possibly trying to quick lynch, now you're pushing for the same thing on him before he's even said anything.

Patrick · Post Post #43 (isolation #3) » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Is this a new style of play Twito?

Patrick · Post Post #51 (isolation #4) » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:17 am

You're trying to copy Fritzler?

Be aware that he might actually know alot more about what's going on in a game than he makes out.
I suppose we're still waiting for Dahen then.

Patrick · Post Post #54 (isolation #5) » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:07 am

@Patrick: Why are you opposing the Dahen bandwagon so strongly when you're on it yourself? BigFos Pattyrick

My vote on dahen was a random vote, not a part of this wagon. But since you remind me, i'll

unvote, vote: Twito

Patrick · Post Post #58 (isolation #6) » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:10 pm

Well to be honest I don't think my vote being on dahen was a big deal when he was no where being lynched. Yes it was just an oversight on my part, nothing more, though you're welcome to try and make more of it if you so wish. In fact you probably will to try and get attention away from you.
I'm voting for you because of your own eagerness to push the dahen wagon fast without hearing anything from him. When questioned about that you fob us off with some stuff about a new style of play, which is not the most convincing excuse I've ever heard.

Patrick · Post Post #60 (isolation #7) » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:25 pm

If I wanted to keep attention away from me do you think this is the style I would play Very Happy
I guess you do though..? Razz

WIFOM a bit no? Who knows how scum would likely play, some are quiet lurkers, others are very vocal players, some vary it.

Patrick · Post Post #63 (isolation #8) » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:55 pm

Its almost like you are trying to take attention away from Dahen and on to a player that we all have an eye on anyway.

Interesting. twito seems to think the opposite ( that I was trying to get the dahen wagon moving without looking like I was). I agree that dahen needs to come in here and start talking but I cant see a problem with a twito vote right now.

Patrick · Post Post #66 (isolation #9) » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:10 pm

Primate, it's pretty late here so I'm going to look for these 'misconceptions' of mine tomorrow morning. No of course I don't think my posts are flawless. I'm not sure what you're getting at yet or what I've done that is funky, but hopefully a fresher brain will work it out tomorrow.
Twito pretty much the same. I'm sure you understand.

Patrick · Post Post #70 (isolation #10) » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:39 pm

Now I'm more wide awake, I can only assume my misconcenption is misunderstanding how serious twito was being with his accusations on dahen.
I'm not sure how much I buy into this though. Bandwagoning without any reason is considered scummy. Is it any less scummy just because twito openly points out that he has no concrete reasoning for it?

Dahen doesn't seem to have any defence againts these major allegations againts him that I'm representing! C'mon what do you have to say as your defence againts huge concrete points I'm making againts you?

I'm assuming sarcasm. Basically you push the wagon along, while giving the impression of not being really serious about it.

If I've made any other misconceptions please let me know about them. Are we going to have to replace dahen?

Patrick · Post Post #77 (isolation #11) » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:32 am

Agreed that the pair of them probably need replacing. Waiting on primate myself, to see if I was right about what I misunderstood.

Patrick · Post Post #80 (isolation #12) » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:41 pm

Checking in, Patrick! Where did everyone go?

Patrick · Post Post #86 (isolation #13) » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:53 am

Is that it? No replacements?

Patrick · Post Post #96 (isolation #14) » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:41 am

Still here and still waiting for the thing I mentioned before. I've no idea why the game suddenly stalled so dramatically.

Patrick · Post Post #98 (isolation #15) » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:29 am

yeah thats probably it

Patrick · Post Post #106 (isolation #16) » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:22 am

I have done a reread.

My opinion on dahen - I still think this thing about the 4th vote is just a fuss. I mean, by putting on that 4th vote, was he

really

trying to setup a speed lynch by the mafia? Are mafia going to do that really? Of course not, they don't want to be caught so easily. One away from a lynch can be considered dangerous, but 2 away doesn't alarm me unduly. That said, dahen has contributed very little. And miscounting the number of votes needed to lynch or the number of votes on a person can be considered a scum tell.

I'm still not too liking the way twito jumped on this, but monsieur choette is worse. He seems very keen to jump on bandwagons without taking part in discussion.

Post 32 mon wrote:

unvote
FOS:Dahen. I think you're trying to speed lynch.

man, my mindset was still in the newbie game, where it took 4 to lynch d1, so i thought das was gone already. [/i]

post 41:

vote:twito

he seems way too excited to get dahen lynched, and too overly anxious to get someone besides himself confirmed as scum by the group.

And then this post 100

argh, i wasnt getting the reply notifications in my mail.

my opinion? i havent formed one yet. call it scummy if you want, speed lynch me, i dont care. i call it as i see it.

No stance is definitely scummy. It means you try to avoid any real conflict and stay flexible so that you can go either way whenever it suits you. If you are pro town, you should be putting in more than this.
I see no reason not to

unvote, vote: monsieurchoette

because he is most suspicious.

Patrick · Post Post #114 (isolation #17) » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:33 am

Quick food for thought, the Doc just confirmed someone.

Not necessarily. This no kill could have been a roleblocker blocking scum.

@Patrick: The misconception thing was just something I thought I would try, 'cause it seemed like a good idea. I'd ask you to point out the scummy things in your own posts, the idea being that you'd be insecure about the scummy things, either not mention them, or maybe mention them in a weird way or whatever, y' know. Did it tell me anything? Maybe. I'm not sure I like the way that, when asked for your own mistakes, you put a misinterpretation of the actions of another player as your flaw, but it could be worse, I do kinda see where your coming from. I think it might be good to come back to later.

Let's have clarity here. You didn't ask me to point out scummy things in my own posts, you asked me for misconceptions I thought I had made. Misconception is not the same as scummy. Also I don't know what you don't like about me putting the misinterpretation of Twito's posts as my error.

The monsieurchoette lynch was rather lucky considering how inactive we were yesterday. I hope we're going to do better today. Surely dahen needs replacing.

Patrick · Post Post #116 (isolation #18) » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:08 am

You turn something that should probably have been self-critical into yet another attack on twito's bandwagon of Dahen, which was perfectly legitimate, if slightly ill thought-out.

No. It was just self critical. I wasn't attacking twito with that. I don't know why you would understand it in that way.

Patrick · Post Post #117 (isolation #19) » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:19 am

Ah now having gone back and read the whole post I see what you mean. I put out a theory which is legitimate, don't know how it's ill thought out. To me it would seem like a good way to push on a wagon while not appearing serious about it.

Still I'm not sure where you're going with this. Do you think i'm not being self critical enough? Would you rather I held back on my opinion of Twito's pushing the wagon?

Patrick · Post Post #124 (isolation #20) » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:49 am

I find Primate's certainty about this strange, when over half the town hasn't said anything today, and alot of them hardly said anything yesterday either.

However i'm not sure I like this from dahen

The only substantial post was Patrick's, where he found us our SK. Great work!

Buddying up to me? I hardly think i singlehandedly caught the SK. I don't know if dahen is mafia who thinks he will be lynched, and is trying to align me with him.

Patrick · Post Post #128 (isolation #21) » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:30 am

This still seems like rushed play. We're not on a deadline. Yet ppl are speeding towards a dahen lynch, as if he's a confirmed scum. Is there some objection to having everyone else talk? I mean yeah they'll probably just list me as their second suspect for some half assed reason, but discussion can only help. If dahen is scum he has partners. ATM we are letting some ppl get away with saying crap all.
Don't get me wrong, I think dahen is suspicious, and I really don't like that thing I quoted because if he is scum, he's trying to set me up as tomorrows lynch. But still. I hardly need to list all the non participants here.

Patrick · Post Post #131 (isolation #22) » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:53 am

Not really. All I've been trying to do is get ppl talking this game. I haven't liked Dahen much this game, and if we had to lynch right now he would be my choice. What I did was looking at other possibilities, and a superficial judgement of my behaviour might be that I am scum with dahen and protecting him. Kristocker has been doing this as well (and note i'm not trying to put the spotlight on him - I think he's just trying to get ppl talking like me). At the moment, you are making it incredibly easy for scum to sit back and watch.

Maybe you (twito) feel more affected personally because I questioned your motivations for pushing this bandwagon along, while appearing as if you were joking (using the exaggeration, sarcasm etc. which I was stupid enough to miss).

And now I've read wolfsbanes post below this, and finding it quite annoying how some ppl are just jumping on this very obvious view. I am NOT suggesting a Dahen lynch is bad, I'm saying we should be doing it so damn quickly. Is this hard to understand? Do you think discussion is completely pointless on this day 2?

Patrick · Post Post #137 (isolation #23) » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:34 pm

Saying that people have a "half ass" reason for being suspicious of you is another one of your small over sites.

I'm saying that it is very easy for ppl to just glance at what's going on, and say dahen is their top suspect and i'm in 2nd place. Not that everyone who suspects me has a half assed reason.

If you are so concerned about peoples non participents then why not smoke them out? It has worked so far. I voted Mon because of his non-play and a slight suspicion. It could have backed fired but I had no reason to worry.

I was also on the Mon lynch. I hadn't been planning to name names, but if you like then lets say chef. I can't remember him ever really saying anything.

We dont have to Lynch Dahen we can just grill him why are you so against this?

Please point me to where I said we should not grill dahen. Did I not recently point out something he said which I found scummy?

I'm interested that ppl think that one of me or dahen is scum. For instance, say we lynch him and he turns up town. How does this suddenly mean I'm scum? Are you saying that as scum I made an effort to get ppl talking and slow the lynch down when instead I could have hopped on the dahen wagon like everyone else? If dahen is town (yes it's a big if) then I think a mafia is trying to engineer two mislynches by saying one of me and dahen has to be scum. My impression is Primate is thinking more about what he posts, while wolfsbane is just hopping along for the ride.

Patrick · Post Post #140 (isolation #24) » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:52 pm

Who said so? I wanna get my eyes on that person.

Both primate and wolfsbane said it.

Huge WIFOM. In my experience scum often say that "oh we should take it slow" especially when the heat is on their fellow scum.
Personally I think that if Dahen turns out town, which I hugely doubt, it will point more like to direction of you being town aswell.

Don't be so quick to just filter it off as WIFOM. You didn't quote all I said there. What I was referring to was if I were scum and dahen town. He would be the perfect easy target. Getting him lynched would be easy.

To all those who haven't got this yet; I'm not averse to a dahen lynch, just averse to it happening quickly. I realise he isn't being quicklynched. But alot of ppl were going that way even if they hadn't actually voted.

Patrick · Post Post #144 (isolation #25) » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:19 am

There is also cpol who has hardly said anything.
I'm not trying to wagon either of these two but want to hear what they have to say. Both have gone largely unnoticed.

Patrick · Post Post #146 (isolation #26) » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:43 am

DAS that whole post is rubbish and you know it. I have been one of the most active ppl in this game. Sitting on the fence?? WTF? Aren't I currently being suspected because i'm supposed to have defended dahen? I give my opinions all the time, if I want to be conservative with my vote that's up to me not you. I don't know if you made that post just to try and tempt me to vote for you or what. But it's totally misrepresenting me.

Patrick · Post Post #152 (isolation #27) » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:38 am

of course he was. That is basically what lurking is. Still waiting to hear from DAS about his strange post.

Patrick · Post Post #155 (isolation #28) » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:08 pm

Well I don't know. Usually when someone makes a post that makes no sense I ask them to explain it. I don't usually dictate to them exactly how. Do you still think i'm sitting on the fence? Have you not looked at the parts where I give my opinions?

Patrick · Post Post #162 (isolation #29) » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:36 am

Sorry to sound arguementive but if the post made no sense how would you know I think your sitting on the fence?

Well I suppose at least you aknowledged that you're nitpicking. I said your post made no sense just to avoid saying your post was crap. But if you prefer. Your post was crap. Ok?

I attacked him because all his today posts seem to be designed to look at everyone else but not upset that person by voting for them.

Not true. I actually think i'm quite confrontational as a player. In any case, I'm not a fence sitter. I think you are stretching to try and get some more dirt on me.
Cpol is lurking and really needs to get involved. Chef just needs replacing right now.

Vote: DAS

I don't like the vibe from your recent posts.

Patrick · Post Post #164 (isolation #30) » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:14 am

^^^ tunnel vision

Patrick · Post Post #166 (isolation #31) » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:38 am

Dang, For the first time this game, i'm getting some odd vibes from Primate. That post looked off. You seem to be fighting against the DAS wagon, and very determined for Dahen to be lynched. Speaking for myself, I haven't made a connection between DAS and Dahen. I don't remember PBug saying DAS is trying to get attention away from Dahen either.

My problem with DAS is he's accusing me of sitting on the fence and trying to stay in everyone's good books. Tell me, do you think this is true? I think it looks like stretching.

Patrick · Post Post #168 (isolation #32) » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:39 am

simul posting. But yeah. That confirms what I thought. Primate you are the one making the big leaps here.

Patrick · Post Post #171 (isolation #33) » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:54 am

It's not as if we're speedlynching him, he's only at 3 votes. And if you look, you will see that me and wolfsbane simul posted.

Twito, just got more suspicious to me. He defends Primate's post on Primates behalf, then Primate comes on and admits that he made a mistake. I think Twito is desperate to make me to be suspicious. And like I said before, just because I am fairly conservative with my vote, doesn't make me a fence sitter. I have been involved in most of the discussions in this game, and have given my opinions. I confess I'm really surprised to be accused of being non commital.

Patrick · Post Post #176 (isolation #34) » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:28 pm

That post was quite hard to understand. You haven't shown that i'm a fence sitter. I think the whole accusation is bull. I'll try and show this by looking back over some of my posts this game.

Me, post 33

Is two away from a lynch so bad? If two ppl speedlynch now we should rejoice, because we've caught two scum. No mafia is going to be that stupid. In fact FoS PBug because as an experienced player I'm sure you would have known this. I think you're being oppotunistic.

Taking a stance by pointing out I thought PBugs jump on dahen was oppotunistic.

You will remember later on I took a similar view of twito, which I later relented on when I saw that he was being sarcastic.
Post 106 if you care to look back, you'll see me making a case against monsieur choette which turned out to be correct.

Then we get to day 2, where I've been involved in most of the discussion. I hardly think I need to quote all my posts. Just read them. In most I'm giving an opinion or debating with one person or another. Look at my post 128. I am trying to slow down the wagon on dahen

so that we can hear from everyone else.

I don't care whether or not Primate or Twito don't like it, but I find DAS recent posts scummy.

If you think I am the best Lynch today Pat your in for a big Suprise.

What does this mean? Am I supposed to lay off because of this?

Im not to worried as my post will make sence in the end no matter what my fate.You on the other hand will have a lot of explaining to do..

Threatening me is not something I consider pro town.

I am seeing some DAS/Twito connections here.

Patrick · Post Post #177 (isolation #35) » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:43 pm

And also mod can you please replace chef.

Patrick · Post Post #182 (isolation #36) » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:59 am

Now dont for one fucking second that I use this as an excuse im smart enough to play the game. But it does explain why at times I can be hard to understand.

I didn't attack you because of your use of english. Don't even suggest for one second that I did. Now I repeat; do you think threatening me like you did before is a pro town action? Saying that if we lynch you I will have some explaining to do. Scare tactics. You're trying to make me leave you alone by making me fear for my own safety.

Patrick · Post Post #184 (isolation #37) » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:11 am

yeah I look forward to how you reply to my last, which you managed to avoid doing there.

Patrick · Post Post #187 (isolation #38) » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:42 am

So your not speedlynching him but Dahen was getting speedlynches when he only had 2 votes.. interesting.

No Dahen was not being speedlynched when at 2 votes. Neither is DAS. Answer me this; why are you so convinced DAS is innocent? You've been trying to put attention onto me and dahen and anyone else you can find.

Also explain why you felt the need to defend Primate's post which contained misconceptions. He said as much himself. You seem desperate to try and make me the target.

Patrick · Post Post #190 (isolation #39) » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:54 pm

I'm after you because I think you're scum. No bee in my bonnet. I have no clue why you would think that. I love the way you avoided answering my main point there.

And what do you mean; I don't care anymore about ppl joining in? I STILL want chef replacing. I don't know what the problem is with that. I still wish cpol would stop lurking and post something substancial. In fact past few days the game has stalled again. I have no idea why. Now stop trying to say i'm attacking you for any reason other than I think you're scum. And answer my question. Dodging like that is a scummy tactic.

Patrick · Post Post #192 (isolation #40) » Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:43 am

Now I repeat; do you think threatening me like you did before is a pro town action? Saying that if we lynch you I will have some explaining to do.

Patrick · Post Post #195 (isolation #41) » Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:05 pm

And once again didn't have time to read all the posts

Maybe this is why you aren't making much of a case.

I won't talk too much about the first part of your post because dahen is rather suspicious and I can't exactly explain what he does. Thats up to him.

I'm just pointing out the facts. Nothing more nothing less. When your actions make you look suspicious I think it's weird that you attack me for pointing em out.

No, you present your opinions as facts. It's not the same. Obviously the third sentence is misleading. You make it sound like i'm OMGUSing you. I'm attacking you for what I think is stretching on your part to make me look suspicious.

Also Patrick seems to be repeating things in attempt to make em look like truth. I can point out examples when I have time or you can notice this yourself.

Yes sometimes I do repeat myself. As do you and several other ppl. The reason I sometimes need to repeat is that some ppl don't read or address my points first time. Sometimes I have to ask a question to das more than once. In this case, i'm forced to bring this point up about you again:

I wrote:

Also explain why you felt the need to defend Primate's post which contained misconceptions. He said as much himself. You seem desperate to try and make me the target.

I've had to repeat it because you either chose to try and dodge this or you just missed it. You used Primate's post 165 as a springboard. You used it to try and suggest possible links between myself and PBug. Is basically anybody that agrees with me scummy in your eyes?

Like I said, I think you're stretching to try and maintain suspicions on me. You keep saying that I've manipulated this situation so as to turn attention away from myself and Dahen and onto DAS. Here's the thing though, that's how games work. Mafia is a dynamic game. New things do crop up. You won't find many games where the same ppl are always the suspects and nobody else gets fingered at all. It's natural progression. I can see what you're doing as one of two things:

1. You're scum with DAS and trying to keep pressure on me and off him.
2. You're town and you're just unwilling to accept the possibility that I could be innocent. You're displaying a lack of flexibility.

Let me clear something else up, which probably has more to do with DAS than Twito. I am annoyed that alot of ppl are sitting on the sidelines. If the ppl who are arguing right now are all town then scum are having a flipping field day in here. The fact that I think this does

not

mean that I'm forced to vote for a lurker. I'm not just going to drop everything thats going on here just so I can help bandwagon a lurker. Ideally of course we don't want to bandwagon them at all, we would just prefer them to contribute.

Patrick · Post Post #202 (isolation #42) » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:38 am

I have quite alot to respond to it seems.

DAS: Das seems convinced I'm voting for him for reasons other than me actually finding him scummy.

I thought this one was a given. I am confident for a reason. Unlike you I can see why you are being like you are, hense no vote. How is it going to look when I turn up town.? I know you are going to say WIFOM but hey.

I don't get it. Unlike me you know why I am behaving like I am? You understand my behaviour better than I do? Still apart from that all I can see here is the same argument: it's basically lynch me and you'll be sorry. Great.

Do your homework Pat I read some of your past games, have you any of mine? Thought not...Kind of shreads you arguement if you did.Im ALWAYS like this... SO I cant see your arguement..If its just because I palyed as I always have, then do you see that as being Pro-town?(why do I have a sneaky feeling that you just want to hear what you want to hear)
Dont even get me started that your crying for everyone to see you as a possibily of innocent when you dont give me the same plessure.

No I haven't read any of your games. I try to contribute as fully as I can to my games, but I don't always read up on other players unless I have alot of spare time. You seem to be saying that you always behave this way. What - you always accuse ppl of things they don't do?

Note to all: DAS still hasn't explained why I'm a fence sitter. Because I'm not.

What are you talking about, how am I crying to ppl to see me as innocent? I'm arguing with facts, i'm not using any emotional stuff. None of this lynch me and you'll be sorry.

Wolf: Tricky question. Dahen seems to be straightfowardly scummy. For stuff like trying to align me with him which could well drag me down if he is lynched and turns up as scum.
DAS is scummy/confusing to me. I have trouble understanding what he is saying sometimes ( and no das thats not why I find you scummy). He accuses me of being a fence sitter but now avoids explaining why. I don't know why he says he can't vote for certain ppl. I think DAS is the scummier. I wouldn't mind a dahen lynch either though.

Twito:

Once again your trying to downplay whole post just coz of one thing. This time being that I didn't have time to read all the posts.

This is silly. Of course I'm not making that point to 'downplay' the whole post. I addressed the other points too.
But it was a valid thing to point out. If you haven't read up on everything then of course you aren't going to be making complete arguments.

So basicly you lied in earlier quote where you said I'm suggesting link between you and PBug. In this quote I suggest into PBuG being protown and you being scum. Not you and PBuG being scum.
Lynch All Lyars.

Ok my bad. I misread what you had put. Make of that what you wish. Notice that it would be a pretty feeble lie on my part if I were scum because it was bound to be seen by anyone reading back.

Giving my opinion that you are scum isn't the same thing than desparately trying to make you the target.

Obviously it isn't the same thing. And while I think you're stretching, you say you're not. Maybe it's subjective, but I think you're desperate to make whatever you can point in my direction.

And again I repeat, my vote is on Dahen who I think is the target for today.

So what? You're attacking me I'm defending myself. Should I ignore whatever you say about me just because you're voting dahen? Of course not.

Also talking is nice but so far all it has provided is strongering my suspicions of Dahen. You keep saying that we are done with Dahen and we should move on.

Not true. I've never said forget about dahen. Indeed, i'm sure I've said in several places that he's pretty scummy.

Why? Just coz he ( Patrick) is posting a lot (with little content)?

According to Twito I don't post much content. This is rubbish. I've posted more content than Twito.

Patrick · Post Post #203 (isolation #43) » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:45 am

Small thing to kristocker as well. I don't really have a problem with naming the lurkers. Ok so one post I said I wouldn't name names. Then DAS didn't seem to like this so I listed chef and cpol, the two players who have said the least. I don't see why that would create a huge debate. One thing that I think did was DAS coming out with the unfounded thing about me fence sitting.

Patrick · Post Post #204 (isolation #44) » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:49 am

I keep picking up on new stuff. Another Twito comment I find scummy

Yes I think you are scum so basicly ppl who seem to have connections with you look scummy.
Or maybe your just town playing very stupid. Still this is something I can't affect on, either your scum or it's your fault I think that way.

Twito seems to already be making excuses for if I get lynched and turn up as town.

Oh he was playing stupid, so this was his fault not mine....

Patrick · Post Post #206 (isolation #45) » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:54 pm

You say he's pretty scummy.. everyone but himself.. or himself aswell I guess.. seems to be saying he's pretty scummy.
You don't point out any reasons or act on the feeling that he is pretty scummy you just say so to agree with others.

I've already pointed out my reasons. Don't lie.

That's what you say. How did you count this one?

I don't have time to make as many posts as all others but I give my opinion and responce to things when I can. I can only use computer once, max twise(like today) a day. Meaning I won't be normally making more than 1 post / day.

Post count comes into it, although obviously a persons content can't be completely measured by post count. The main point it, you've said I post little content when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. Forgive me if I think that is stretching.

I don't actually know what fence sitting means but I have explained what I think you are doing:
-Saving your vote
-Avoiding to attack ppl in attempt to save yourself
-Giving your vote for reason like that after first saving it and being unwilling to even name your suspicions
-Saying that you want to slow things down and then putting your vote on the hottest wagon

Great. You were willing to accuse me of fence sitting before knowing what it even means. Again, I don't know how that can't be stretching. I'm accused of
Saving my vote: I've already explained i'm conservative with it. A look at my other games will tell you this.

Avoiding attacking ppl to save myself: I've given suspicions of Dahen, I fingered PBug early on for what I saw as oppotunism, I attacked monsieurchoette, I've said I don't like the lurkers, I've attacked DAS and yourself... Am I avoiding attacking ppl to preserve myself? I'm in the thick of it. You'll have to do better than that.

Unwilling to name my suspicions: Already addressed that, I have named my suspicions, you just need to read them.

Slowing things down and putting my vote on the hottest wagon: I think Das is suspicious so I vote him. Look back and you will see that I simul posted with wolfbane for voting DAS. At the time I voted him I only saw PBugs vote on him. So that hardly made it a 'hot wagon'.

We are not there yet. You still have time to stop playing stupid and look at the big picture.

Still the same tactic then. You will be pleased to know the feeling is mutual.

Patrick · Post Post #208 (isolation #46) » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:36 pm

Yes I've been the more and active and posted more content. I don't have a dictionary definition of what content is. I know I haven't been skimping on it however. I am surprised to be accused of that. I can't prove via A + B that I've been posting alot of content, so we'll just have to let the others decide. So far it's not a complaint ppl have had of me.

Yes now you have when being called about it but before you were unwilling.

You can repeat this until you're blue in the face but it won't make it true. I've always posted my suspicions. Never have been unwilling to.

Patrick · Post Post #210 (isolation #47) » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:00 pm

You were unwilling to name names before and you even admitted it. So don't lie to me.

For ONE POST I wasn't going to name names. Only because it was obvious who the lurkers were. I can't believe you're trying to make something out of this.

Btw you are making this some war between us which simply wasn't my purpose. You seem to be very closeminded and unable to take critizism. Oh and scum with Dahen aswell.

Oh please. You come out with BS points about me of course I'm going to respond. You keep trying to prop them up so I keep responding. Swallow your pride.

Well anyways would be nice to hear from others aswell. And I don't have time to sit all day on computer just to answer the shitload of contentless text you are posting.. Razz

Yes it would be nice to hear from others. Specifically I would like to know: who else aprt from Das thinks i'm a fence sitter and why. Kris has already said he doesn't think I am. Primate keeps asking DAS to explain but so far no luck. I would also like to know if anyone else thinks i'm posting little content. I think that accusation is completely baseless.

Patrick · Post Post #211 (isolation #48) » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:58 pm

I'm tired of this circular argument with twito so i'm going to post my thoughts about each player. In no particular order:

Chef - this guy isn't even a lurker he's just vanished. The only mystery is why he's not replaced yet.

DAS - I think he looks scummy. Tells me i'll be sorry if he's lynched. Accuses me of fence sitting. Wants me to chase a lurker. I won't go over my debate with him in great detail here, it's all in the thread.

Twito - same again, I don't want to analyse our argument in this post. I think it's a circular argument where even if one side realised suddenly they were totally wrong, they wouldn't admit it. So instead, i'll just ask again whether others think i'm not posting content.

Primate - I get a fairly pro town vibe. I think his accusations are generally better thought out and reasoned than Das and Twit. The only thing that seemed off was post 165.

Cpol - I got nothing. Has said very little. It's no way to play the game.

wolfsbane - hasn't been saying much either, though I haven't had many problems with what he's said. At the moment I've no reason to suspect him.

PBug - hasn't said much. I can't get a read on him. I know it's his normal style. He could be scum sitting back in a comfy seat eating popcorn and watching all the action. I just don't know.

Kristocker - Up until recently I haven't had a problem with anything he posted, but I don't like his suggestion to vote off chef. I don't think anybody has any read on chef at all, so I don't know why you would want to lynch him rather than replace him. As twito said, this looks like a tactic scum would use.

Dahen - Rather scummy. I really think he could be scum trying to pull me down with him.
Dahen post 174:

@DAS: I understand some of the vote-critique against Patrick, but I still don't understand why you are focusing on him? At least for me, it seems like Patrick succeded in taking some of the focus away from me when I was getting close to lynch. Maybe we are scum together, but attack me instead of him, then.

Seems like he's trying to align me with him. Says I took some pressure off him. Says that maybe we could be scum together. This kind of thing is enough to set ppls minds racing about possible connections.

I also don't think his suspicions of primate hold much water. I would be fairly happy to see him strung up today.

Patrick · Post Post #218 (isolation #49) » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:33 am

We are now talking less about my fourth vote-thing, but we are still debating my "connection" with Patrick. Why? Haven't we said enough about me pulling him down? Yes, it's probable that I'm mafia and trying to pull him down. It's not hard to write in the way I do, though, so if that is a tactics that works, I don't know why I don't see it more often. However, I have always been careful to point out that I am the one who started the connection, so please leave the idea that I'm trying to set him up.

I agree with wolfsbane. Those last couple of posts by dahen are bad. Dahen keeps posting about connections with me. Keeps asking ppl why they are going after me. Heck he even admits that it's probable that he's mafia trying to pull me down.

His posts give me a bad vibe. I still don't like all the baseless accusations against me but atm I'm happy voting for dahen. Maybe Twito could note in passing that even das thinks i'm bringing more to the table than most others.

vote: dahen

Patrick · Post Post #220 (isolation #50) » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:57 am

Why do you assume we are only discussing you? Do you think all this back and forth between myself and twito and myself and DAS is all about you?

Patrick · Post Post #226 (isolation #51) » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:43 am

Sorry PBug for forgetting it's not your style.

Kristocker i'm afraid I disagree. Lynching chef is practically a stab in the dark.

Mod the votecount is odd. Dahen is listed twice.

Patrick · Post Post #235 (isolation #52) » Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:41 pm

Earth to chef. Are you still with us?

Patrick · Post Post #246 (isolation #53) » Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:05 pm

I mentioned it too, don't think I ever got a reply. I'm thinking it's a slip.

Patrick · Post Post #251 (isolation #54) » Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:19 pm

Where is that uber post from Primate?

Patrick · Post Post #255 (isolation #55) » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:19 am

That first part is interesting; was wolfsbane giving you an escape there? Not impossible. Even so the fact that you admit to be possibly being mafia trying to drag me down is not good. If you're town you should know this with certainty.

Your reasons to suspect those voting you aren't very good. The first first one doesn't apply at all; simply quickly lynching you would look suspicious. This kind of logic only applies when the town is at lylo. The second reason, i'm not sure. I can't remember off the top of my head how many votes you have although I didn't think it was lynch -1. Could be wrong. I think anyone hammering you immediately would come under suspicion tomorrow for effectively shutting down discussion for today.

Your part about me being pratically cleared if we hang you is wrong. Whether you turn up town or scum, I'm quite sure that a few ppl will still want to look at me tomorrow. I don't know quite where you're going with that post, though I get the impression you're trying to say your more suspicious of me.

I am therefore inclined to be somewhat less suspicious of those that includes Patrick in the suspiciouns and more suspicious of those that are just onto me.

So basically you're encouraging ppl to be suspicious of me, while OMGUSing ppl who are after you. Very happy with my vote.

Waiting for Primate and BRob with more urgency. This deadline only helps scum. We need to pick things up again.

Patrick · Post Post #258 (isolation #56) » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:59 am

Sorry dahen but I don't really follow that last post.

I am not intentionally trying to misread you. I think that if you say you are suspicious of ppl who don't find me suspicious, that would logically mean that you find me suspicious. Please clarify that.

Patrick · Post Post #268 (isolation #57) » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:28 am

Agreed that dahen should probably be claiming.

I'm liking Primate less than before. He promised us that long post ages ago, and now we're deadlined. He's certainly been posting in his other games. He seems to be stalling here though.

Patrick · Post Post #279 (isolation #58) » Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:35 am

If that was the hammer, then massive

FoS Kristocker

for doing it before Primate's uber post. We could still have talked more before deadline, or even tried to get it retracted.

I do agree though that not wanting to claim is pretty scummy.

Patrick · Post Post #281 (isolation #59) » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:01 am

Mod can we get Primate prodded? Also I would back anyone who wants to get the deadline retracted.

Patrick · Post Post #291 (isolation #60) » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:00 pm

There's a change of tune. What happened that suddenly made me more suspicious than dahen?

Patrick · Post Post #295 (isolation #61) » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:23 pm

Actually wolfsbane that was sudden. For the past few pages you haven't said too much, but most of the time you've been saying dahen is scummy/scummiest/good lynch. Now you suddenly say i'm scummier than him. I'm asking why.

You're suspicious of me because I came to his defence early day 1? So if he turns up town, how does that make me especially suspicious? Are you mafia trying to setup a mislynch tomorrow?

Patrick · Post Post #297 (isolation #62) » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:37 pm

Again; why am I suspicious if dahen turns up town?

Patrick · Post Post #299 (isolation #63) » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:15 pm

Before I go to bed, i'm just going to post a relatively new suspicion I've been getting. It's about cpol.

His posts over the last few pages have pinged my scumdar. I'm gonna list a few of them:

Post 257

Mayb thats because you are mafia and they don't want too?

Suggests dahen may be mafia.

Post 263

Ok so Dahen should claim. The deadline is looming which is not good as I really do have a feeling that Dahen isn't scum but there is defnitly not enough time to find someone who has been acting scummy.

I still feel that PBuG is very scummy. He quickly jumps on Dahen day one, which to me seemes like he thinks there is an easy lynch there and then keeps on saying what a bad thing to do it is because the mafia could speed lynch someone when actually the mafia really arn't going to do that atall. Also he has actually posted very little in this game and when he does it is harly more than two lines but yet he has gone unnoticed (I know that sounds a bit hyppocrytical but hey.)

BRobs last post arroused susspicion aswell. To me it screams forced pro-town-ness, but ill give him the benifit of the doubt for now.

Also I don't think Patrick or DAS or scum and really want to see this post from Primate.

Changes his mind about dahen. Instead tries to switch attention to BRob and PBug.

Post 272

Humm, sorry Dahen but that doesn't sit well with me. It feels forced, like you are scum under pressure. I tried to make you claim quickly so if you were scum you had little time to think up a claim, and thats how that just did. What do other people think?

Now he's saying he doesn't like the way dahen isn't claiming, but it seems he wants other ppls opinions before he fully commits.

Post 274

Obviously no flavour could be got, but there is nothing wrong with claiming whatever you are, vanilla, cop, doc or whatever if you are town. Not wanting to claim only makes me think you have something to hide.

Again expresses suspicion about dahen not claiming.

Post 276

Im stuck here, there are two situation.

1) Dahen is scum and can't come up with a proper claim.
2) He really is town and just doesn't give away his role.

To me option 1 at this point seems the most believeable however I feel that if he were scum he would be trying to come up with something plauseable to avoid the lynch.

Says he thinks dahen is more likely scum than town, but gives himself a getout line.

Post 289

I hugely agree with Twito about BRob here. It just seems too easy to come in and say that.

I still think Dahen is town and because of that kristocker should be looked at now. There was enough confusion around the vote as to weather it was the hammer or not but unfortunatly he is coverd even if he thought it was.

At least there is a longer deadline now. NOONE PUT THE HAMMER ON DAHEN PLEASE! There is stuff to talk about even though I have a feeling dahen will get lynched.

A bit of a change of heart it seems. Now he thinks dahen is town.

This seems like he is contradicting himself. These posts are all very close together, let's not forget that. Is cpol mafia trying to urge ppl onto lynching dahen, while not actually voting? It's possible. It happened in my last newbie game; day 1 a town player acted really scummy and we lynched him. The only two players not on the lynch were the scum. Most of day 1 they were making it very clear that they thought this guy was innocent, and on day 2 they were certainly keen to remind us and express suspicion about the ppl on the townie lynch.

Maybe at 2 am I am overestimating this, or missing something. But I would at least like an explanation for these contradictions.

Also want to hear from wolfsbane about why I am scum if dahen is town. It's very easy to try and link us together just because I defended dahen day 1, but really I don't see how such an argument holds water. There could be scum behind it trying to setup a false dilemna ( eg. one of them simply

must

be scum. We lynch one, if he is town we lynch the other. Good way for scum to possibly gain two mislynches.) But really if you think about it, if dahen is town, and me scum, there was no special incentive for me to try and slow down his lynch. Scum try to blend in, and conservatively expressing suspicion about dahen would have been very easy. Don't even try to chuck the WIFOM book at me. Just think about it.

Patrick · Post Post #308 (isolation #64) » Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:10 am

Just so I can be cool:

Patrick: town
Twito: Scummy, but could easily be town
DAS: Less scummy than before
Kristocker: Pretty scummy
Wolfsbane: slightly scummy
Primate: townish
PBug: slightly scummy
Dahen: rather scummy
BRob: Don't really know yet
cpol: fairly scummy.

I wasn't very convinced by cpols reply. As far as I can see he changed his stance on dahen several times within a very short space of time. Cpol spent a while saying dahens lack of role claim was worrying, then he changed his mind saying dahen is likely town, before dahen made his role claim.

Primate, could you link me to that game where you and cpol are scum? Cheers.

Patrick · Post Post #311 (isolation #65) » Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:43 am

Alright then cpol. Maybe you need to read my post again where I quoted you several times. You claim to have though dahen was town throughout. Your own post 276:

Im stuck here, there are two situation.

1) Dahen is scum and can't come up with a proper claim.
2) He really is town and just doesn't give away his role.

To me option 1 at this point seems the most believeable however I feel that if he were scum he would be trying to come up with something plauseable to avoid the lynch.

Clearly

saying that you thought dahen was more likely scum then town. You say that what made you slightly worried was the lack of claim. Yet you changed your stance saying dahen was town BEFORE dahen decided to play ball and claim. I don't like these contradictions.

I don't get your reason for not showing me a game where you were scum with Primate, I assume it was on another site. Primate is using that game to say that he doesn't think you're scum. It would be kind of easier to judge for ourselves if we could view that game. What are you scared of?

Also I have already said that I didn't believe that Dahen, DAS or Patrick were scum a while ago. None of you ever did to me, but it was a perfect opportunity for scum to let you fight among yourselfs, which is what happend.

Not sure what you are getting at with this.

Patrick · Post Post #313 (isolation #66) » Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:39 am

Patrick · Post Post #318 (isolation #67) » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:46 am

Ok. I don't understand wtf Primate's last post was about. But I'll do as he wants and disregard it.

Wolfsbane is amusing. He keeps coming up with vague accusations of me like 'Patrick is manipulating the town more than he should' Where am I manipulating the town wolfsbane? And once again, why am I scum if dahen is town. I really want to see where you get that from.

To answer dahens last post, I think I know where Primate is coming from in his views about you. If you turn up town, I will be suspicious of cpol and Kristocker tomorrow. Cpol because of his changing stance towards you in a very short space of time. Kristocker has done two things that caught my eye, firstly trying to get chef lynched which is at the very least advocating bad play. Secondly she has been saying that she isn't convinced by the dahen wagon, then in post 278 she pops up and nudges it along. Ok I admit I didn't like dahen not claiming, but having read the discussion in the mafia discussion forum, I've realised that claiming in this situation isn't so widely used as I thought. Kristocker just seemed to be looking for an excuse to pop a vote on dahen.
Wolfsbane is also creeping in there for using very vague reasons to accuse me and possibly setting up a false dilemna between me and dahen.

Patrick · Post Post #320 (isolation #68) » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:52 am

I don't get it. By definition everyone wants to lynch the player 'they want to lynch'. I didn't know I had a playstyle. lol

I still want to hear from wolfsbane.

Patrick · Post Post #326 (isolation #69) » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:08 am

Interesting. Did dahen think he was dead? Or is it a devilishly clever trick by him to try and appear more innocent? I will

unvote

because I think this day deserves more discussion. I for one hope the deadline can be taken away. The mod did say it was very retractable.

Wolfsbane took a step up in the scumminess polls there. Wow. I don't like this at all:

It is so surpising that I could consider you scummy? Some people are listing five people as scummy. It is a very vague thing and changes by the minute because it seems like you are posting more than the rest of the town put together. So, my opinion of you is unsure to somewhat scummy.

This is definitely backtracking. Look back folks, in post 290 wolfsbane said he suspected me more than dahen. He clearly said I was the scummier of the two. Now he's downplaying it and saying it's a vague thing.

It is so surpising that I could consider you scummy?

No it isn't. I'm not some ultra sensitive guy who's going to feel offended if someone thinks i'm scum. But whenever I ask you for reasons you're being evasive. Still you haven't said why you think i'm scum if dahen is town. I think you threw in a line where you say i'm scummy, and now you're regretting it because I ask for reasons. You're suspicious of me because I post alot? OMG. I also don't like the way as soon as ppl started looking at you, you quickly try to put dahen away. I think i'll

vote: wolfsbane

Patrick · Post Post #330 (isolation #70) » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:13 pm

No it's not OMGUS. I think i've given pretty good reasons. And you make it sound like i'm singlehandedly trying to stop the dahen lynch. Have you not noticed other ppl expressing the same doubts, even unvoting?

Patrick · Post Post #344 (isolation #71) » Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:52 am

Primate brings up some good points about wolfsbane. I hadn't noted that before, the reason wolfsbane caught my eye was mainly his fast changing attitude toward me and the fact he didn't seem to have reasons for finding me scummy. I'll lay it out so wolfsbane can answer.

Wolfsbane spent much of pages 9-11 telling us how dahen was scummy and how he was warming up to the idea of a dahen lynch. I don't think I need to quote specific examples. Don't take my word for it if you don't trust me, have a skim back. He doesn't have too many posts.

Then suddenly on page 12, post 290 wolfsbane says this:

This is getting strange, I'm most suspicious of Patrick and Dahen. I think that one of them is scum, probably Patrick. Dahen is making more sense now, but I just don't know. B Rob could be lurker scum, Primate isn't giving me that good fuzzy feeling. Where is that post he promised and can we retract this deadline? I think we are making progress here.

This is a clear change of tune. I wouldn't mind this if there were good reasons, but wolfsbane never provided any. Wolfsbane was very evasive when I asked for reasons. Post 316 he makes some noises about me being manipulative, and this is because I post alot. Pretty sure this is a bad reason.

Post 321:

It is so surpising that I could consider you scummy? Some people are listing five people as scummy. It is a very vague thing and changes by the minute because it seems like you are posting more than the rest of the town put together. So, my opinion of you is unsure to somewhat scummy.
Dahen is outright scummy - almost too scummy to be true. Around the claim his posts seem less scummy and more understandable, but I really dislike his recent post starting with haha. I'm starting to wish I had left my vote on. I just didn't want a hammer before I heard from Primate. If we let dahen off today he is just going to bog are discussion down tomorrow, I think we should just shelf these other suspicions and get rid of dahen. Vote: dahen
So, my scummy list: Dahen, BRob, and maybe Patrick.

Another change of tune. Back in post 290 I was his top suspect, now he's back to picking on dahen! He says I 'maybe scummy' His actions are not consistent of a townsperson. If he had some good reasons for having me as top suspect, why not come out with them when challenged? Instead he seems to back off.

Long story short, I think wolfsbane is being very wishy washy with his reasons and keeps changing his mind on who he suspects more out of dahen and me in a very short space of time. If we had lynched dahen and dahen was town, wolfsbane would try hard to lynch me tomorrow based on his false dilemna, I also notice he included Primate in this.

He still may be the best lynch for today because it tells us a lot about Patrick and Primate.

Fishing for two possible mislynches?

Kristocker I don't like much either, mostly for reasons I pointed out before. I don't like the way she was against a dahen lynch yesterday, but now when things look uncomfortable she is suddenly wanting to lynch dahen because he was hesitant about claiming. I could see these two as scum buddies.

I fourth the request to remove deadline even tho pretty sure I may have said it first. But meh. I'm sure it's obvious we don't need one. There are some ppl we need to hear more from about this.

Patrick · Post Post #348 (isolation #72) » Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:19 pm

Yupz. I wouldn't mind seeing how cpol makes a case here.

Patrick · Post Post #351 (isolation #73) » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:46 am

I'll let Primate make his own response but just a few points:

Are you trying to get me to vote Patrick knowing that he is town and you are scum?

How did you work this one out?

How about this Unvote, Vote: Primate

This looks like glaringly obvious OMGUS and it stands out a mile.

Also you ignored my post. Very happy with my vote.

Patrick · Post Post #364 (isolation #74) » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:03 pm

Unvote

then barring any counter claims of course. I'm very glad we got the deadline removed.

It's strange how cpol suddenly voted for Primate when wolfsbane claimed doc. I thought wolfsbane was acting pretty scummy. At a pinch I can see why a lower than usual level of participation would fit in with a doc role.

In response to your last post wolfsbane, the thing you have to see is that just because a player attacks someone who is probably innocent in your eyes doesn't make them scum. Town players are always going to make errors, and every game will see town players attacking other town players.

I really think it's odd that scum would choose to try to kill cpol night 1. If I remember right he had basically done nothing. Scum usually try to keep lurkers around because they can be easy targets.

Patrick · Post Post #367 (isolation #75) » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:26 am

So guys, we still need everyone to check in so we can see whether or not anyone is counterclaiming. In the meantime I will

vote: kristocker

since I've been suspicious of her for a while now. I would like to hear from her.

Patrick · Post Post #371 (isolation #76) » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:13 am

Can we prod kristocker or something? We need her contributing.

Patrick · Post Post #377 (isolation #77) » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:31 pm

Coz of the way the guy he replaced played

lol, what does chefs complete inactivity tell us about his role? You think forgetting about the game is a scumtell?

Patrick · Post Post #380 (isolation #78) » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:35 am

kristocker still scummy then. I think wolfsbane probably is the doc if there is no counterclaim, but I'm not keen on just instantly clearing cpol and pbug because of it. Like I said, I think cpol would have been a very strange choice for a scum nightkill last night. PBug could still be mafia who was targetted by the SK, or a RB could have been in action, or both scumgroups aimed at roland, or some player is unknightkillable, or monsieurchoette could have been too lazy to even get a kill in. Lots of possibilities.

Patrick · Post Post #382 (isolation #79) » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:40 am

It's because I think in general scum want to kill ppl who they feel are helping the town and who are getting stuck in with decent chances of catching scum. Cpol wasn't any of those. Ppl are naturally going to start being suspicious of lurkers at some point, so I could see scum wanting to keep him around.

Ok I can see your point that by killing someone who has hardly done anything, you give the town nothing much to work with, but basing too many of your suspicions off nightkilling patterns is often going to be cast aside as WIFOM anyway.

Patrick · Post Post #384 (isolation #80) » Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:24 pm

Not many ppl talking. We've had the deadlined removed so everyone just seems to retreat again. I'll lay out my case against kristocker.

1. Suggesting a chef lynch, rather than replacing. This is just straightforwardly scummy. I don't see why anyone would think that is good play. A blind lynch helps the scum.

2. Too eager to clear cpol and PBug too quickly in my opinion.

3. I still don't like this post from earlier:

Kristocker wrote

I didn't think that dahen's actions day one were very suspicious. But I'm concerned with this post. He "claims" was a role with no flavor, so I don't understand how giving a townie claim will give more information to the scum than the town. Claiming townie gives the scum more changes of picking a power role, but claiming a role with no flavor is essentially the same thing. This really feels like a scum blindly claiming something in order to not get lynched. I don't believe it. unvote, vote: dahen.

I just feel like this whole post is making excuses to vote for dahen, when she said she was hardly suspicious of him at all before. Votes for dahen without waiting for the actual claim or Primate's analysis. A hypothetical situation is that dahen is town, and kristocker is scum who initially wanted to stay away from the dahen wagon because it seems so certain he was going to be lynched anyway. If that happened, dahen would have come up town and kristocker would have looked good, for not being on the lynch of an innocent. You can bet she would also have cast suspicion on those who were on it (probably me and Primate for a start). Then when it looked less like dahen was getting lynched, kristocker got desperate and tried to push the dahen wagon forward on some half baked reasoning.

That's basically why i'm voting kristocker.

Patrick · Post Post #386 (isolation #81) » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:07 am

yeah that's possible as well, but the other scenario is the one that sprung to mind first.

Patrick · Post Post #388 (isolation #82) » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:46 am

so where did everybody go? When we're on a deadline ppl are posting all the time, now as soon as it's lifted ppl start drifting off again? What do ppl think of my suspicions of kris? Who are other ppls suspects? Kris are you going to defend yourself?

Patrick · Post Post #393 (isolation #83) » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:38 pm

prod on kristocker please.

Patrick · Post Post #395 (isolation #84) » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:25 pm

seriously guys what is going on here? Lurking town gives scum the excuse they need to also lurk. Mod are we getting kristocker to post..?

Patrick · Post Post #400 (isolation #85) » Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:48 pm

Not convinced by Kristocker. I see no real defence there.

Patrick · Post Post #404 (isolation #86) » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:10 am

Can everyone else give their opinions on Kristocker? She might be the play today. She pretty much ignored my case against her, and I get the impression most ppl have had enough of today.

Patrick · Post Post #409 (isolation #87) » Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:06 am

Can we get a mass prod? No one is saying anything.

Patrick · Post Post #413 (isolation #88) » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:29 am

1. Chef had not posted for ages and had clearly forgotten about the game. No sane mod could consider not replacing him. The replacement was surely going to happen, it just took a while.

If you remember, there were very, very few people talking that day.

Looking back, I see you suggested the chef lynch on day 2 at a time when activity was high. So your reason doesn't really apply.

2. I listed several scenarios earlier where wolfsbane could be telling the truth and Pbug and/or cpol could still be scum. A roleblocker is one, or MC forgot to kill night 0 (he wasn't very active remember), or both scum targetted roland, or MC targetted PBug who is mafia, or that we have some players who are unknightkillable.

3. You made this point earlier.I don't see how dahen was 'fishing' for a roleclaim. In your post 398:

But when he felt the need to claim, his claim seemed forced and made up, like a scum fishing for a townie claim. If he truly is a vanilla townie, I don't see why he couldn't claim it. Fishing, fishing, fishing.

I think this is strange. Why do scum need to fish for a townie claim? It's the easiest claim to make. His claim seemed forced and made up? Again I think this is a strange thing to say about a townie claim. Sure if he claimed miller vigilante, or mickey mouse or father christmas or something I could understand it. But how is a vanilla townie claim forced and made up?

If he truly is a vanilla townie, I don't see why he couldn't claim it.

This might just be down to playing style. But one fair reason I can see is that claiming townie makes it easier for scum to kill off poweroles. Let's look at it from another angle, though it can be called WIFOM. If he is scum. why didn't he claim a powerole. Then he either lures out the real powerole, or he doesn't get countered and looks more credible. If I was in his position at the time and I were scum, that's probably what I'd have done because it really looked like he was getting lynched at that time.

Patrick · Post Post #417 (isolation #89) » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:06 am

Can you enlighten me Primate and tell me what the case against BRob is, other than hardcore lurking.

As for Patrick's last argument on this... I suspect that scum wouldn't claim a power role at the point when dahen claimed because of the risk of a counter-claim. I don't believe a vanilla claim means he isn't scum.

I never said a vanilla claim clears him, because of course it doesn't. What do you mean he wouldn't claim a powerole because of the risk of a counterclaim? The whole point is, if you're scum who thinks you're going down, you want to be counterclaimed so as to out a powerole as your last act.

Patrick · Post Post #419 (isolation #90) » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:22 pm

oh no, vanilla claim can hardly clear someone, I was just seeing kristocker's apparent suspicion of him as stretching.

Patrick · Post Post #422 (isolation #91) » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:23 am

It's basically self preservation. With the beginnings of a wagon on him he hurries to vote kristocker. This may not be an indication of scum though.

Still hoping someone will explain what the case is against BRob.

Patrick · Post Post #426 (isolation #92) » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:43 am

Primate, you've definitely been around the website, so can you please get in here and explain the case against BRob. Just voting for no reason is not really very helpful.

Patrick · Post Post #433 (isolation #93) » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:32 am

I almost want to vote for Primate, just for blatantly avoiding this game. Not for the first time is he keeping us waiting. All this stalling harms the flow of the game. I start to forget what's been going on when I have to wait for days just for an answer.

Patrick · Post Post #435 (isolation #94) » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:20 am

Not quite true. If dahen was pro town, he could still have pretended to make a bah post knowing he hadn't in fact been lynched yet. As a last way to try to convince ppl. I understand what you're saying about dahen being kept around as an easy lynch later. So easy for ppl to just go back to being suspicious of him without having to draw up a case because it's already been drawn up earlier.

Since I have the time, i'll go back and read over BRobs posts this game. Still happy with voting kristocker for now though.

Patrick · Post Post #436 (isolation #95) » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:07 am

So looking back over his posts, I see a general low level of contribution. Also he did seem eager to quickly vote kristocker as soon as Primate voted for him. I would quite like to hear from PBug too.

Still voting kristocker because the case against her is grounded on both gut and evidence. I could see Kristocker and BRob as a possible scumpair.

Patrick · Post Post #443 (isolation #96) » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:37 pm

I wish I had the same psychic powers that wolfsbane seems to have

Patrick · Post Post #449 (isolation #97) » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:34 am

Oh so that's what you were getting at wolfsbane. I couldn't work it out. So you're saying that Primate and BRob are scum together, and that instead of going for a kristocker lynch, Primate instead decided to bus BRob while offering minimal explanation. It would explain why Primate is unwilling to share the case in full about BRob, but apart from that it seems far fetched. Still happy with my Kristocker vote.

Patrick · Post Post #454 (isolation #98) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:45 am

I think Kristocker needs to claim before anyone hammers.

Patrick · Post Post #456 (isolation #99) » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:57 am

Agree on (1) obv. About (3), she;s had a crack at defending herself, it's true I wasn't all that convinced by it. Maybe she is too busy with real life, but that doesn't take the case away. Not sure what you're saying with number (4). Do you think the wagon hasn't stalled because it is scum driven? I would disagree that her wagon has stalled, more like the whole game has stalled for a while now.

ATM I prefer my vote on kristocker. If you really want BRob lynched instead I suggest you give the good reasons/case you have even if you might think it's not ready. I can be persuaded. I do lean towards town for you, but I'm doubtful about voting for BRob without really knowing why.

Mod could you prod kristocker and PBug please?

Patrick · Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:10 pm

I think I confused myself and i'm not even drunk. Looking forward to seeing the case.

Patrick · Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:25 pm

Hmm no major view after all this?

Anyway *cue Primate*

Patrick · Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:42 pm

holy moly

Patrick · Post Post #466 (isolation #103) » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:42 pm

One small thing I noticed was the number of times BRob said he wasn't sure if he buys wolfsbane's doc claim. Few games don't have a doc so it seems slightly strange. Almost as though he was disapointed about the fact that we weren't going to lynch wolfsbane, and was just trying to appear cautious. Of course if he is scum, he's not going to be keen to accept confirmed innocents.

PBug I hope you haven't just hammered a powerole.

Patrick · Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:29 pm

I don't like lynching without a claim.

Patrick · Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:37 pm

You seem pretty certain this is going to be a mislynch.

Patrick · Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:23 pm

agreed, this night has gone on ages.

Patrick · Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:23 pm

11 day night is mental.

Patrick · Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:15 pm

Mafia thief eh. That is interesting. What could she do, maybe steal someone elses role for one night? I'm not sure why Primate thinks a thief would imply a 3 man mafia, though in all probability it is, just because of how common 3 man mafia in minis is. If we do have 2 scum left, I would expect the town to be pretty high powered.

Onto actually finding the scumbags. I actually suspect BRob less now having thought about it. BRob replaced chef. One of the reasons I attacked kristocker was because she seemed willing to just lynch chef because he wasn't here and needed replacing. There was plenty going on at the time. I know scum sometimes bus their own, but really, that would strike me as a strange scum move. Why try to bus chef when he is in no trouble whatsoever? And when it made kristocker look scummy into the bargain. I don't see it. I'm not clearing BRob but I think it's a point in his favour.

I think PBug needs looking at today. A few reasons: Firstly the obvious fact that PBug has been on the sidelines all game. Low on content, staying away from much controversial stuff etc. No major view at this stage as posted in post 459, is pretty scummy I feel. Yesterday PBug never particularly gunned for the kristocker lynch, or talked about the case against her. Then post 461:

PBug wrote:I just reread kristocker's posts again very carefully and... *sigh* Unvote?, Vote: kristocker

This reeks to me of last minute distancing. He gives no reasons for wanting to vote kristocker, just does it. Then:

PBug wrote:Holy moly indeed. *kicks self in ass* Sometimes even I don't know what I'm doing.

Presumably acting like he didn't realise it was the hammer. I'm not so sure. Didn't wait for a claim, and limited Primate's time for posting his case against BRob.
Lastly there is just the fact that kristocker seemed eager to clear cpol, wolfsbane and PBug so easily, even when I pointed out so many different scenarios for night 0. So I think i'll kick off with a

vote:PBug

Patrick · Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:32 pm

I could wait for everyone to post and give their opinions but I'm too lazy for that.
Quilty on BRob.
Vote: BRob

Are you saying you're a cop who investigated him?

Patrick · Post Post #495 (isolation #110) » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:08 am

Ok so Twito is a second cop. I'm assuming one of our cops is not sane though. Twito did you get innocents before? In that case we would know you aren't paranoid. It might be best if you reveal your night 0 and night 1 results, otherwise that info could die with you.

Patrick · Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:20 pm

Yes, his previous results will help us work out his sanity. Cos it usually doesn't say in a PM.

Patrick · Post Post #500 (isolation #112) » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:41 am

Probably. A godfather is likely, and I think most of them are immune to investigations. Still if we get down to 6 with 1 scum, I think we ought to win, maybe by massclaim but we'll decide that later. Twito, results?

Patrick · Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:25 am

BOOOOOOO! Twito results PLS!

Patrick · Post Post #506 (isolation #114) » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:15 am

The votecount is wrong btw. He actually has 3 votes, Twitos as well. 5 lynches.

Patrick · Post Post #508 (isolation #115) » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:49 am

I definitely think we should wait for Twito's other results. There is no guarantee of his sanity. Even though we probably want to believe he's sane, because of suspecting BRob before, we should check it. Heck what is Twito is scum making it up? Claims guilty on BRob, we mislynch, tomorrow he claims insanity, we lynch his one of his innocent results, another mislynch and scum win assuming there's two left. I don't believe in that but I think we should be still alert. Good position can still be blown.

Patrick · Post Post #514 (isolation #116) » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:52 pm

The full claim I don't mind about. But I hope you are completely sure about your sanity. Is there some reason why you don't want to give us your full results?

Patrick · Post Post #516 (isolation #117) » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:57 am

I still think we should know the results. Twito could well die tonight without being able to tell us. That's why I don't know why he is holding back on information. I don't think we need BRob replaced, we're going to lynch him anyway. But still I would like to hear the rationale behind Twito keeping us in the dark.

Patrick · Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:26 am

From that I deduce you have no useful information other than on BRob maybe because you have checked out ppl who died which would also make you sure of your sanity. You can add me to your list anyhow.

Patrick · Post Post #531 (isolation #119) » Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:14 am

Whoever the last scum is, don't keep us waiting for 11 days

Patrick · Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:01 pm

Yay *is still alive*
I'm tempted to give my opinion on who the last scum is.. but technically I'll be dead soon. I have faith in teh town. Let's make a 1-2-3-4 scum lynch guys!!

Patrick · Post Post #540 (isolation #121) » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:08 am

You forgot the part about the ladies loving me

If town wins, I will come back to life so no worries.

Patrick · Post Post #545 (isolation #122) » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:00 pm

front page should say BRob is dead.

Patrick · Post Post #618 (isolation #123) » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:22 am

Yeah that must be surely be a town win. Well done all. I won't say what my role did until we can confirm the game is over.

Patrick · Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:46 am

A nice win with a 1-2-3-4 lynch of the scum. My priest role was just a nerfed doctor, with only a 50% chance of success. Also, if I hammered someone, I would commit suicide that night. I protected PBug night 0, Primate night 1, wolfsbane night 2 and Twito night 3.

Patrick · Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:57 pm

Kristocker joined the mafia? That's crazy, 5 scum in a mini.