Mini 1337 - Elite Mafia (Game Over)

[Humble Poirot]

1- what allignment do you prefer playing as, town or scum?

Each has different appeals. As town, the mystery and hunting for clues makes it an awesome experience. As scum, there's the thrill of power and misdirection. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd say town (Considering my experience in mafiascum has been town only and I haven't played here in a while)

2- how many games have you played before this one?

Not exactly sure. In MS, Less than 6. A couple broke due to mod problems.

3- what is your timezone and how many times a day can we expect you to be posting?

GMT - 3. Not sure. At least once a day seems a good default rule but my activity may vary according to the game's pace.

I think we ought to try and maintain everyone's participation roughly similar. If a group of players become excessively active they can not only be unnecessarily focused upon but allow others to simply disappear under the radar. Lurking is bad but spamming is harmful as well.

a. One bullet, one shot based on who are you're going to kill if you had to use it this moment from this list?

Being a Saturday night and considering I'm about to leave I won't answer specifically. My only answer is: I like to analyze things deeply and carefully before making rushed decisions. If I had time to investigate, I'd shoot the highest liability (cronic lurker, excessive spammer, etc)

mmm, I notice that I'm skimming because I need to go soon. I'll come back tomorrow and read things properly.

Glad to be back.

[Humble Poirot]

Ok. Up to date: I separated questions/answers with each player with area tags so as to be clear. General notes so far at the bottom:

@Pheneas:

@DAMaster I didn't even see the game when it started, as I was busy with exams and all. I really have nothing else to say; your reason for saying you would kill me wasn't personal.

What does seeing when the game started have anything to do with DTMaster asking you about the lack of reaction/acknowledgement of his kill choice?

@URoE:

I went from thinking you were a just-joking-around kind of player (harmful) to what seems like genuine scumhunting yet full of confirmation bias. Some questions from my notes:

urOe voting me is a bit reassuring. At least he stated a reason and moved on, apparently. Still, 2 questions:
1) Did you accomplish what you hoped for by voting yourself?
2) What do you expect from voting me? Do you expect more than from your self-vote?
3) How much would you say it harms a possible "pressure" on me when you announce "I doubt my vote will stay here for very long"

In other news, Humble Poirot doesn't even want to comment on who he would shoot if he had a hypothetical one-shot day-vig. Looks to me like someone is trying to avoid pointing any fingers early on to avoid suspicion.

Well, if you read my post again. You'll see that the rationale of whom to shoot is there. I just didn't know who fit the description considering the game had barely started and I had read just a couple of posts.

And if I wanted to "avoid suspicion", it would seem much simpler to give a non-committal "I'd shoot at random" or somesuch. Or joke around (eg: roflcopter, because he <insert joke here>)

Now that we've had enough of semantics, one of Milk/Poirot is scum.

You realize that I hadn't even posted a second time (and the first one was a moment where I had to leave fast) and you're already reinforcing your initial lame vote? This is called confirmation bias. It would be wonderful if we could avoid this. I'm aware you said you'll wait for inactive people but with every post, I see an alarming reinforcement of some point that hadn't even been replied to. I've fallen to confirmation bias myself. Not a good thing.

Furthermore, when you say one of X and Y is scum. Are you implying a connection or just that you think both are scummy and by rule of probability you should be right about at least one of them?

It's hard to get responses from people who are not as active as the five or so of us consistently posting, though, so I will continue to wait on them.

What's your read on SensFan and TechnoWC?

@Thomith

i like coffee's meta reasoning, so i am showing that i support it.

why? Could you explain it in your own words? (what's the argument and its merits).

i think coffee's meta arguement is good, so i voted as i find bork scummy because of it, aren't you meant to vote people you find scummy? (hint: answer is yes)

This seems to be a complete deflection from the question as to why bork is scummy or why the argument against him is "likable".

@MormonCoffee

by the time of post #42, a couple of players hadn't acted much more than TechnoWC and me. How did you fare Seacore, SensFan and Arugula's activity at that point?

@seacore

I asked Milk a question, milk answerd, i voted milk. I did nothing in between this, I think it would be obvious that this is why i voted milk.

Next time. Imagine we're all five year olds and adequately EXPLAIN your votes. Nothing is "just obvious" in mafia. We want to have the reasons on record.

But in the future I shall endeavour to be painfully clear. So as to excuse people who choose not to read the game.

Again, this is not just about reading comprehension. It's about stating things for the record and preventing people from reinterpreting an ambiguous vote.

@TechnoWC:

Twice, you've given me a feeling of ignoring what's going on in the game and just making a mild participation.

Do you have opinions on any of the dual or triple discussions that have been going on?

Notes:

Both milk and seacore seem to have a confrontational attitude. That doesn't mean their scum, it means we need to learn to work around it to get the truth out.

I, as opposed to what URoE and Thomith think, won't just vote around. By withholding votes and voting when I'm quite sure and have a decent analysis I give my votes strength and am able to pressure more effectively. Call it "prenventing vote inflation", if you like.

From what I have so far I'd kill SensFan (inactivity), TechnoWC (inactivity) or Tomith (scummy).

[Humble Poirot]

@absta101:

I find it somewhat amusing that, after apparently catching up, you only posted
once disagreeing with MormonCoffee's meta scumslip idea and asked Thomith a
question and 2 hours later, complained about lack of activity.

Is borkjerfkin/absta101's interaction with MormonCoffee and Thomith the only thing you find
relevant to talk about in this game (so far)?

@Thomith:

i like the meta arguement because it would make sense for scum to be cautious of people who know their meta, as they are more likely to catch them.

So, assuming SensFan and roflcopter know each other, wouldn't that mean that roflcopter's vote makes him as scummy as borkjerfkin/absta101 if that's all you based your vote upon?

I see you didn't comment on my accusation that you deflected the answer with "I should vote people I find scummy"

coffee why didnt you vote bork in your explanation, too cautious? too scared you could slip scum from it? why have you ignored the discussion on it?

This feels very forced to me. Why didn't you ask this earlier? Moreso, haven't you read post 41 where he already explained he "wanted to hear more from everyone else"?

if you read coffees post then it explains it, yes it is RVS, but the meaning is still there, however as it was RVS i am going to
UNVOTE:
for now.

I'm getting pretty wary about you, Thomith. The fact that you complain about one vote on you and then claim yours was RVS doesn't help.

Let's see.
In the very same post you voted borkjerfkin you were attacking milk because if
he had a "reason outside the not that much game related RVS votes" it wasn't RVS.

Then you agreed with MormonCoffee's reasoning and voted bork.

When pushed upon. You said you found borkjerfkin scummy and that you were voting him BECAUSE of it.

Now you claim your vote was an RVS vote (therefore you didn't find borkjerfkin
scummy?) and proceed to unvote.

What happened with borkjerfkin's scummyness? Did it suddenly go poof because you were getting too much attention? Did the lack of MormonCoffee's support change your mind?

@SensFan:

Can you characterize the relevance of Seacore's participation in the respective "spats" with both Arugula and Milk?

2/3 of your short post all but dismiss the events or actions of the players in this game. Do you find anything noteworthy to talk about? Any scummy post or activity?

@MormonCoffee:

@Humble Poirot To be honest I completely overlooked SensFan, since he hasn't even posted. My bad there. As for Arugula, he was one of the first to post and answer the RQS, and so I assumed that he would be a relatively active player if he had posted so quickly in the beginning. What stuck out mostly about you and Techno, however, is that you both seemed to avoid the "one-shot vig kill" question from DTM. Techno moreso, seeing as how he had only placed a vote and nothing else. Seacore had made a couple of posts already, so I didn't see him as coming across as inactive.

Does that answer your question?

Yes, but I do have followups.

1) Why didn't you mention the "one-shot-vig kill" subject at all when you said you'd choose TechnoWC or me?
2) Seacore's posts amounted to

"Vote Uroe. wo hoo, cho cho"

,

"Is asking random questions scummy?"

and

"unvote vote milk"

. Why doesn't he get called for avoiding the vig kill decision?
I understand you calling me on the lack of specifics because I acknowledged the vig question but Techno, like seacore, didn't even touch the subject.

@Aragula:

Seacore has a point. I get the feeling that you're closer to defending others,disrupting or questioning attacks than trying to scumhunt yourself. What do you think?

Notes:

Just in case, I researched Bork and he is replacing out of at least one other game as well so it's not game related.

[Humble Poirot]

So, you're saying that you no longer find him scummy because his was an RVS vote? Despite previously saying that his vote WASN'T RVS due to outside game knowledge or something? (specific phrase involved: "reason outside the not that much game related RVS votes")

How is that not a contradiction?

In addition, are you going to keep answering selectively or can I expect responses for the rest of my questions later?

[Humble Poirot]

Disclaimer. Doesn't account for page 6 (general comments about page 6 in notes
section)

@DTMaster:

Re (Aragula):
I agree that defending people is legitimate. The thing that called my attention regarding Aragula's behaviour was that he just jumped in the middle of an argument/question with a question/refutation that seemed to counter or defuse the attacker. from iso #0 to #5, it's all dismissive, there's no arguments towards building a case or anything.

He now explains that he hasn't

"picked up on much that is scummy"

so I can give him the benefit of the doubt (Like I'm doing with others) but that stance on page 5 seems to be quite widespread and is dangerous. If a significant amount of players claim not to see anything scummy and they don't try and probe then the game comes to a halt. It can be argued that he has scumhunted with his questions but it's mainly reactive.

I honestly wasn't aware of the long weekend. I now realize some of you had mentioned it but I took no notice (Remember users come from all around the world in MS)

@Thomith

Thomith, I'll reformulate one of my questions to make sure you don't miss it.
If someone else does the same thing as borkjerfkin and votes someone they know, would you still find it scummy? I'm asking because I'm pretty sure SensFan and roflcopter know each other.

@TechnoWC:

1. You: your posts contain short jabs and psuedo-questions aimed at players I have townreads on that sound like the lead up to a portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all, but reads to fall back on when voting for someone.
2. DT: he seems twitchy and nervous.

SMEAR ALERT! SMEAR ALERT!

This reads like an opinion piece from a political opponent.
1. contains lots of words and adjectives and a mash-up of concepts displayed in
a bombastic way. But let's run down what it says.

- roflcopter jabs and pseudo-questions (what makes them so? has anyone else done this?)
- roflcopter suspects players I have town reads on (so?)
- "portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all" - (this barely makes sense. Too much lyrical hyperbole and quite the mixup accusing him of both setting up buses and future mislynches)

2. This kind of accusation towards a player that has few but developed posts without any evidence makes it even worse.

It's important to note that TechnoWC provides NO example for his claims. None whatsoever.

@Poirot: love the Poirot tell. Would love to see meta on a game where you won as town and smashed scum out of the ballpark with massive speals of scumreads that no one else picked up on, rofl rofl.

I don't really understand this. Because of the @ he seems to be talking to me. But then he talks about my tell in third person and then asks for meta (mine?) but then ends up rolling on the floor laughing (Twice)? Is that sarcasm?

Can you rephrase this and clarify the point you were trying to make, if any?

Not liking your OMGUS of me much though, its quite
telling.

How was DTMaster OMGUSing you? He validly complained about a one liner where you called him scum.

Then telling him what to do in a condescending manner as if you knew he was scum. More horrible smear tactics.

Your answer to roflcopter is quite convoluted. Either your thought process as town is a bit contradictory and too forward and bombastic or you're just making things up depending on what benefits you most.

Your reasoning worries me.

how does DTMaster's reasoning worry you? As in DTMaster is town and failing?

@SensFan:

5 pages on and you haven't scumhunted (in writing) ONCE. Just replied with barely in a non-committal fashion.

- RQS is bad. Inactive Game.
- Seacore is significant but I won't know how until later (useless for the moment and one could argue that is just subject to manipulation in a later stage)
- name 2 town reads but don't develop and evade answering why later on.
- defending your view on significant or attacking your attackers' view on significant.

Still without any scumreads, SensFan? Do you disagree that you haven't committed to absolutely ANYTHING in the whole game?

notes:

FoS: TechnoWC:

For his smear piece on roflcopter (and DTMaster).
Thomith and SensFan are my other main suspects so far.

I'm likely to vote soon but I hope to get both more content and analyze things in context. Maybe meta my main suspects a bit.
I agree with other players about Seacore. He puts his money were his mouth is. He's aggressive but seems to provide good and genuine motives for what he does.

Focusing in a scumteam association is a bad idea. It will shift the conversation uselessly. TechnoWC is, in fact, trying to discredit DTMaster entirely (and therefore improving his own standing) by attacking the alleged connection between roflcopter and him.

Page 6:
TechnoWC seems to be upping the ante. Every post of his reinforces my scumread on him. The amount of emotion, adjectives and personal attacks seems to be a trademark. DTMaster has focused on many people and has generally had a pro-town attitude. His only mistake, in my opinion, is to pair up people this early.

SensFan keeps acting as if the game hadn't even started. Nothing going on. Anti-town at best.

[Humble Poirot]

We need to hear from UnofficialRulerOfEveryone, Milk, MormonCoffee, Pheneas, Aragula, Thomith.
What's your opinion on the last exchanges between DTMaster and TechnoWC? What do you think about my post and the points I raise against TechnoWC? Any conclusion regarding Thomith's vote, reasons, unvote and posterior explanations? What about SensFan's play-style so far?

[Humble Poirot]

Then telling DT 'not to mention it' because it will 'shift the conversation badly'. Trying to give an unconfirmed tips on how to slip under the radar?

Yes. You're trying to shift the conversation out of your own scummyness (your smear posts) and put everything into DTMaster's guess of a scumteam (And discrediting him for it).

And the fun fact, is that you keep throwing these subtle smears at anyone who attacks you. Right now, it's me. You're telling me I'm directing DTMaster on how to slip under the radar. That's an implication that I'm scum with DTMaster. Yet, you don't outright say it. You just smear.

'2. This kind of accusation towards a player that has few but developed posts without any evidence makes it even worse.' Sorry, were you talking about DT?

Yes.

"how does DTMaster's reasoning worry you? As in DTMaster is town and failing?" what, the fuck. Know something I don't? His reasoning worries me just as it worries you, because he

called me out as scummy and a neighbour

after like four posts...

(emphasis mine) Well, I get the impression that you think DTMaster is scum. If you think he is scum, why be worried about his reasoning? You'd just dismiss it if faulty. The "worry" seemed to be an implication that you were unsure of his alignment. At least, that's my interpretation. (preview edit: Considering you're claiming to be unsure of his alignment this might be excusable)

When did he call you neighbour? Can you stop saying neighbour for everything? Try and define clearly what you're saying. If you're accusing DTMaster and me of being in a scumteam, say so. If you're implying someone has the role neighbour, say it. If you're implying people are acting too friendly to each other, phrase it in an unambiguous way.

"Buddying up to someone"

is a good expression for that.

There is some serious neighbouring going on between DT and Poirot, smells pretty fishy!!

Again, this is the type of mild accusations that scum usually makes. Trying to paint your attackers as the scumteam without arguments and without outright saying so.

preview edit:

Hope your not taking my last neighbour comment seriously either.

Why wouldn't we? You've already hinted at a connection between me and DTMaster.

Read it in context with the rest of my posts dude. A dig at the whole neighbour stuff.

YOU are the only one throwing the words neighbourhood and neighbouring around.

I haven't ruled out the possibility that DT is town, sure. I need to look at some of his other meta, but claiming someone as scum and neighbour

WHERE did DTMaster call you a Neighbour?

I've iso'd DTMaster and looked for words starting with nei. No result

[Humble Poirot]

quick post.

@TechnoWC: If I "buddy". It will be because I agree with a players assessment in a certain subject. That doesn't mean I'll agree with them in every subject.

I'm not, by any means, condemning you to a lynch. Just pointing out the number of things you've done that are scummy to me. I like that you're answering with passion but you should strive to be very clear from now on. Be careful with jokes and mild suggestions. Try to call apples by their name to avoid confusion.

Reflecting over this game I'm currently very concerned with people who are inactive or lurking. Or purposely lacking initiative (SensFan)

What is the go with the Seacore/Arugula/DT/Humble 'alliance'?

You're reaching a bit. But concerning my position towards Seacore and DTMaster I have a town read on the former and, despite not having a clear town read on the latter I agree with a lot of the things he does and consider him a fully pro town player (which is extremely useful).

This feature might be useful to you. Iso of Arugula, Humble Poirot, seacore. Seacore nor me particularly like what Arugula's done so far. DTMaster disagrees with our assesment. (search for gula not Aru, since we've misspelled his nickname plenty of times)

In fact, as I said, I'm quite concerned with the players who AREN'T here. From experience, the majority of scumteams prefer to avoid the spotlight and might lurk or outright hide behind anti-town playstyles (Because that's "how they play")

Poirot's Pedit in post 140 was my biggest bias issue. He realised I had every reason for my stance, which showed that
a) he tried to find something wrong with it in haste
b) after a readthrough he saw an error in his reasoning, and was good enough to point it out, but still felt happy to keep it up as a scumpoint against me.

And my biggest problem with you is that you keep attributing malice to everything I say or do against you. Yet, you don't seem to believe I'm scum (or at least, are not willing to put in writing).

From my perspective, I made one unthoughtful post and since have been

One unthoughtful post accompanied by the way in which you responded and your lack on a follow up (noted by DTMaster) were the things that made people so adamant against you.

It wasn't just ONE thing. You've displayed many of the traits I'm used to see in scum. But you've also showed some traits I seldom find on scum of the kind I'm thinking about. And the fact that a lot of players are happily coasting makes me wonder who's too comfortable with this game.

Well, that wasn't the quick post I intended. Gotta go. I'm already late.

[Humble Poirot]

Hi, I think I haven't slept in the last 36 hs so now I'm going to take a well deserved long nap but you can expect a post in 9 hours or so. I've been sporadically checking the game from my phone so I don't too have much to catch up, just make sure I don't miss anything.

I'd be cool if the new players commented on the game besides criticizing playstyles or asking questions that have probably already been answered.

One thing I noticed is SensFan posted in MS but not in this thread.

My current thought process (although I'm pretty tired so things might change upon a good read) is that TechnoWC might have demonstrated sufficient will to defend himself in a what I think is a genuine manner. Although I disagree with many things, he doesn't seem like a good lynch (considering he plays, appears on record, puts himself on the spotlight).

I'll probably vote SensFan when I come back.

I'll be back. Now I need to rest.

[Humble Poirot]

Tl,Dr:

- SensFan's attitude is inexcusable. I might WIFOM myself with the too-scummy fallacy but it's irrelevant. He needs to go.
- We should try and get participation from new players and old inactive ones.
- Elmo and Junpei, thanks for replacing and welcome (and questions).

The SensFan situation is just surreal.

SensFan has gone from saying Seacore was

"significant (don't know why or how)"

and this:

Again, I never said it wouldn't be significant at some point; just that I don't have anything to say about it right now

to

"Seacore is my top scumread".

And now he simply votes Seacore saying his post disappeared.

He is being so scummy that makes me second guess myself. I've read SensFan before and he struck me as a player prone to be anti-town. Overconfident, deliberately aggressive and looking to pick up fights, lurky but also possessing some kind of reputation.

Throughout the course of the game I've tried to get info from him in the nicest way possible but he seems to completely ignore the game. He's refused to commit to anything for a while now.

I find it hard to see motivation regardless of alignment to so clearly give us the middle finger in terms of ignoring what's going on and explaining nothing. But in the other game, at least he posted a couple of decently sized posts eventually. Here, absolutely nothing.

SensFan has to go. I'm always willing to listen to what he has to say but his playstyle is just too harmful for town.

What I'd like though is to try and probe everyone who hasn't been active enough. Specially get input from the new players.

@TeChNoWC:

At the same time I felt you weren't doing the same for DT, and in fact quite the opposite; you were defending his scummy actions and even giving pointers as to how to react to me.

I didn't see them as scummy actions. But huge alarm bells rang when I read your posts.

Can you enumerate the pointers? (Not to talk about scumteams...?)

But DT on the other hand MAKES CLAIM I AND ROFL ARE SCUM BUDDIES FROM ONE POST, and he gets nothing. Not even a slap on the wrist. Just 'oh no mister good towny, you shouldn't say that'.

I, for one, don't see how terrible that is. It's like roflcopter's bold "if X is scum Y is scum". Many players do that sort of thing but don't actually believe it with emphasis.

You get town points in my book for being consistent with what you believe in. I disagree with it but I note that you started jumping at roflcopter for the scumteam issue and later thought DTMaster was scummy for the same reason.

You three should not have the power base. DT scummy, Poirot biased and short sighted, you unwilling to give input.

Woah. Just when I was starting to like you.

Give me the benefit of the doubt, will you? You've admitted your own post was lazy (I still believe it has all the components of smear although I now believe you're likely town and so is DT who has done barely anything scummy in my eyes. And I don't view overconfidence or scumteam guessing as scummy in itself.)

@Seacore:

Your only point on me was that I was 'bringing up things that didn't help scumhunting'.

I iso'd you thinking TeChNoWC was lying/exaggerating but he has got a point, Your response?

@Elmo TeH AzN:

Welcome to the game.

I am calm. That's what's funny. I just see alliance and I cringe a bit

Why? Because you automatically believe anyone who suggests there's an alliance?

I do find interesting right off the bat that Milk gets a lot of heat from a couple people and nothing really comes of it.

Milk went AWOL. That's the problem. Players who are getting flak and dissapear end up being left alone. Which makes lurking a valid and useful tactic. Many players are excused because they're not heard from again.
On that note. I'm glad you're clearly reading the game from the beginning instead of just jumping on the last events.

I look forward to further comments and explanations (your vote and the specific reasons for it).

Thomith gets some town points for #66. I like aggressive players. Dunno why. But there's great points there.

I'd like you to read my post #89 and tell me what you think. You still think Thomith was aggressive on his own?

My current stance on Thomith is unsure. Seeing as he was my first scumread I tried to be balanced and look at other players before tunneling. A small amount of meta and the fact that he is quite young made me doubt myself but there's a question to be answered. Is he an impulsive short post town player (eg: look at his logic in the alleged "roflcopter slip")? or is he scum? (who hides under that role/who's simply ok with lynching anyone but him/eager to look like he is scumhunting)

@roflcopter:

top scum reads - techno and thomith

Really, roflcopter? Nothing else to add? Any relevant issues to talk about?

There seems to be a handful of players who are willing to put you on their scumlists. Does it concern you at all?

@Junpei

Any thoughts on Milk's interaction with the rest of the players? How do you view HIS actions and thoughts?

@Notes:

Request:
Now that TeChNoWC has understood the difference between actual neighbours and scumteams let's stop talking about neighbours. It's confusing everyone. Can we use the proper terms for things?
From now on we will say:
buddying (both players can be town, scum or different alignments)
scumteam (both players are scum together)

Regarding votecounts, does anyone have a problem with the way they're displayed? (besides Elmo TeH AzN). We can ask the mod to change them it's an issue.

[Humble Poirot]

Oh, and in case anyone's curious. Best. Sleep. Ever.

[Humble Poirot]

@Everyone:

Please don't hammer him yet. I'm absolutely FOR his hammer but I'd like to avoid giving the rest of the players a chance to answer/ask questions and interact with each other.

@SensFan:

You keep ignoring everything in the game.

Meh. I realize that this is completely impossible to verify, but right after Post 144 (in which someone called me out for not giving any scumreads), I swear I was sure I posted "Meh, you're right.

Vote: Seacore.

I think it's completely absurd that anyone really thinks I would lie about that, and it's not something I can defend myself against.

Who specifically called you a liar? and would a "yeah, you're right vote Seacore" be any good when you have not given a single reason as to why you think Seacore is scum?

There's no 'case' against me other than that I haven't explained my reads (I don't plan on doing that yet) and that I've been slightly lurkerish. The latter is completely 'explained' by the fact the first 4 pages happened during a long weekend I was away, and since then I thought I made a post that I apparently didn't. No claim.

This is beyond absurd. I can't envision a reason for you to act like this as town. If it weren't for the amount of games you've been in, I'd think you were just a troll.

It's not that you haven't explained your reads.

You have barely given reads at all. Until your vote of Seacore, you had never read anyone as scum. You said Seacore's involvement in 2 "spats" was significant" but that it meant nothing at the time.

I certainly never meant to imply that I had any sort of read on Seacore; it's significant but I don't know how or why yet. All I know is that when the only things of note in 4 pages are two fairly inconsequential spats, it's worth noting if the same person is involved in both.

Your "reads" of town people were just an answer to roflcopter and you didn't offer any explanation for them:

As for the town reads, I was asked for the people I thought were most likely to be Town. I never said I have good Town reads- I don't.

Slightly lurkerish is an insult to our intelligence. You've hardcore lurked and when you posted, it only qualified as active lurking. You've yet to play the game.

You've ignored plenty of posts addressing you. For example:

@SensFan:
5 pages on and you haven't scumhunted (in writing) ONCE. Just replied with barely in a non-committal fashion.

- RQS is bad. Inactive Game.
- Seacore is significant but I won't know how until later (useless for the moment and one could argue that is just subject to manipulation in a later stage)
- name 2 town reads but don't develop and evade answering why later on.
- defending your view on significant or attacking your attackers' view on significant.

Still without any scumreads, SensFan? Do you disagree that you haven't committed to absolutely ANYTHING in the whole game?

And you ignored 240 too. Which is less than 5 posts above your own. In plain sight.

And now you refuse to claim at L-1. Explaining nothing and stating that you don't plan to do it.

Do you think you're playing a good game or acting like a good player? Can you offer any explanation as to why your playstyle helped or benefited the town in ANY way?

Fixed a quote tag.
-snifit

[Humble Poirot]

I'll give you a tip. When a sentence has a "?" at the end that means I'm asking a question. If that sentence comes after @SensFan you can be sure it's aimed at you.

Can you please, humor me and answer those?

Also, can you point at TeChNoWC's post or quote where he lied?

Why is Seacore scum?

[Humble Poirot]

He didn't lie, or at least I don't know that he did. I meant that he called me a liar.

My mistake. That's what I meant. I guess you're taking about this. While I do know how a post can disappear (although this can be easily mitigated with a good browser or doing writing in a text editor) I think the important point was that he thought you were pretending that it would've been a different type of contribution. Not just "vote X" or similar.

No, I don't specifically think I've been a shining example of good play, but I don't think I've done anything particularly bad either.

I don't see intent to scumhunt from your part. Have you ever asked a question or challenged someone who wasn't talking to you?

It's D1 and no one has anything to go on

You keep saying this and it's just not true. We're 10 pages into the game and, even though we lack sufficient input from a couple of players there have been several interesting discussions and interactions for people to comment on.

I've given my reads fairly clearly and with no hedging, so that I can still be held accountable for my actions

I wholeheartedly disagree. Like I said before. You just called Seacore scum in your last posts. Not before. Your other "reads" were your 2 town reads that you called not good reads and gave no explanation for. So they're not very clear to me. It's not about writing novels, it's about writing content when you post. Explaining, showing intent to scumhunt, etc.

As for Seacore, I realized that I was being way to cautious with my "significant but not scummy" shit

You're doing just what I predicted you would. You're using the mild significant observation to NOW mean that he is scum after you purposely left it as a wildcard before (131: "useless for the moment and one could argue that is just subject to manipulation in a later stage").

Furthermore, how is Seacore scummy for this?

I doubt there's much to gain about alignments from either the Milk/Seacore or the Arugula/Seacore spats. The fact that Seacore is common to both might be relevant, though.

You didn't develop on the significance then (When DTMaster and me asked) and you're not developing on it now.

[Humble Poirot]

I think we ought to try and maintain everyone's participation roughly similar. If a group of players become excessively active they can not only be unnecessarily focused upon but allow others to simply disappear under the radar. Lurking is bad but spamming is harmful as well.

That said, if you think either of us have been spamming you can specifically point out what you think to be spam and why instead of asking us to prove otherwise.

TeChNoWC's posts were important to me because they allowed me to better assess his logic and to find out where he was coming from. The consistency throughout has been an important factor in my decision.

Same goes for everyone else. If I post something, It'll be to have a better read on them. I take the trouble to link and quote things as much as I can to provide easy to follow context.

Honest question, do you read games you replace into or skim them and go from what you read since you replace in? (I've read players who take this approach).

[Humble Poirot]

I've just given a cursory glance to the lot of posts since I last posted and my response/comments will have to wait until later tonight but I need to say this:
@UberNinja. This is not your personal notepad. Don't multipost all over the game without explanations. That's the very definition of spam. Taking multiple posts to say what you could've said in one and many of them, are simple announcements without explanations. And you're asking questions to people who have replaced out.

No time. Later. Try to keep things tidy, please.

[Humble Poirot]

Oh, I was afraid of this. And it hasn't even been 3 hours yet. Can't we collectively ask the mod to replace him?

38 posts in 3 hours

. Most of them useless and contradictory. Despite requests to shut up. Everyone is feeling so tired that most of us seem happy with a hammer just to shut him up. Feels like a bad Gish Galloper.

Mod:

Can you replace this player who has no interest in making the game a fun experience for others? He has stated that he is only in to have fun himself and is ruining the game for everyone.

He hasn't payed attention in any way (look at him asking questions to his own replaced character). Spammed like hell with ever changing reads, etc.

I want him gone so that the game can resume it's normal course. He has declared intent to play like this with his post that said something along the lines of "I'm going to raise the activity or else".

[Humble Poirot]

Tl,Dr:

- SensFan must claim or be hammered. He can't keep buying time in this manner.

-

I WILL hammer SensFan if he doesn't claim in his next post.

- IceGuy must explain why SensFan is "pretty obviously town" and stop lying in order to defend him
- Ignoring UberNinja's posts for now to avoid confusion.
-

FoS IceGuy

. Outright lies to defend SensFan (no town motivation for his interpretations).
- If anyone doubts that SensFan is making things up read his iso

SensFan, Stop buying time.

I was voting you in this post but now it would be a hammer.

I'm hammering you anyway if you don't claim in your next post

You're lying about providing content. You cherry pick what to answer. You've never scumhunted in the whole game. You didn't even want to explain why something was significant after you said that it wasn't indicative of alignment.

You have no case on Seacore. The "seacore spats with other players" never held any water anyway.

You're now strawmaning with the "missing post" argument to try and make everyone forget about your playstyle.

You're not trying to get people to vote Seacore (Town would). Just defending yourself and misleading.

You pretend there's nothing to defend against but KEEP IGNORING MY POSTS AND QUESTIONS.

I'm not bluffing. I'm hammering without a claim. So claim.

@IceGuy:

Explain your conclusions. And, most of all, explain the bold claim that SensFan is obviously town. There's no way on earth anyone would believe that. Not even SensFan would dare suggest it.

You're outright lying in your defence of SensFan. You quote 109 and 231 as proof that SensFan's vote didn't come out of the blue and neither prove anything. But you don't link to them, you don't quote them. You just put the numbers there in hopes that no one will check.

Again, I never said it wouldn't be significant at some point; just that I don't have anything to say about it right now. As for the town reads, I was asked for the people I thought were most likely to be Town. I never said I have good Town reads- I don't.

Nothing here. He explicitly refuses to explain why is significant.
Conviniently leaves an open door for future interpretations (which he didn't provide anyway, when he voted Seacore).

Seacore is my top scumread.
Milk is second.

This post happens AFTER the 3 DAY ABSENCE. So it DOES come out of the blue.
He votes later that day. It's his first scumread declaration (he provides no reasoning behind it).

Do you honestly think TeChNoWC and DTMaster are bussing each other? Have you read how focus on both players started?

I'm just curious about this: why did you say "the fuck" in response to the quote in my post 30?

--- Less Important stuff ---

@Junpei: Keeping it short but check the links you posted in 252. You go as far as to put my very first attack on TeChNoWC as unimportant. I thought he was scum then and accused him. When I stopped thinking that, I dropped most of it.

As for UberNinja. I qualify him as possible scum and reckless anti-town. The excessive ever changing posts are clearly meant to show he "scumhunts" or read s the game but you see no attention to detail whatsoever. He doesn't even care if he gets answers. It's all a show. He doesn't believe it's pro-town either.

I'm ignoring him for now because 80 % of his posts are dismissed by the last 20 %. Day 2 will be a better time to judge his posts (and see how he plays from now on)

[Humble Poirot]

IceGuy, have you read #357? It's just

three

posts above #360, you acknowledged that one. Can you please respond to mine?

[Humble Poirot]

IceGuy... Are you blind?

[Humble Poirot]

Knowing who I will vote day 2 while still being on day 1 doesn't happen often. But since the replacements came, this game seems to be beating all records.

Let the record note that IceGuy keeps defending SensFan with fabricated reasons and deliberately refusing to answer to me. as shown here. He might later try to pass off his scummy actions as jokes but I'm not going to buy it.

@absta: are you really going for the "If X was scum, why would he do scummy things" argument?

[Humble Poirot]

I think you're trying way to hard to prevent the SensFan lynch.

And I seriously hope the rest of the players realize how bad you're ignoring me and my questions.

The only person I'd lynch besides SensFan would be you, IceGuy. But I wouldn't lynch even you if SensFan doesn't claim.

I'm giving SensFan till 15 hs (GMT 0) to claim

. I'm quite sure that if left to his own devices, he'll suddenly disappear for 3 days. 15 GMT - 0 is a good timeframe considering his posting pattern in the last couple of days.

Someone else needs to vote SensFan. UberNinja's unvote barely makes sense. He should revote SensFan.

[Humble Poirot]

IceGuy's actions are incredibly scummy regardless of alignment. He has strongly challenged SensFan being scum without providing any credible reasons. He fabricated the ones he gave and hasn't provided decent cases on his alleged alternatives.

And that doesn't even begin to explain his complete avoidance of my posts.

He seems to only be looking to destabilize the game.

[Humble Poirot]

Vote SensFan

.

I don't care what alleged IRL reasons prevent him from posting or reading. I don't see him claiming anytime soon.

@TeChNoWC: Regardless of SensFan's alignment IceGuy's actions are scummy. He has no reason to defend SensFan with made up arguments (which I pointed out in my posts) and keep trying to debunk his waggon. He has no reason to ignore me. No reason as town, that is.

[Humble Poirot]

I don't think you should hammer simply because 'well, it's gonna happen anyway'.

I've voted and probably wouldn't hesitate to hammer because SensFan has repeatedly avoided claiming when asked (Being at L-1). He enhances his playstyle in ridiculous ways and selects whom or what he wants to respond to.

We usually wait for a claim to lynch someone. But that can't be an excuse for people to feel safe just because they refuse to claim.

Added to that, looking at SensFan's responses so far. I'm not interested in a post that says "oh, I'm not L-1, not claiming".

Regarding the L-1 warning. We're past that. He was L-1 yesterday. It can't surprise anyone.

I'm with Seacore, we're just wasting time at this point. It'd be different if we could pressure people like IceGuy with a wagon (because he doesn't answer to direct questions) but that would play perfectly into SensFan's defense: Do nothing and save yourself.

[Humble Poirot]

IceGuy, if this were IRC, I'd think you have me on /ignore. I've don't recall seeing someone ignore another player so blatantly in MS. It feels like a bad joke.

[Humble Poirot]

@abasta101: Seriously? You've never played with a doctor before? Why wouldn't be doctor far more likely than RB?

Fishing for PRs in such fashion looks really bad.

@UberNinja: If you have a point to make, make it. Don't treat it like a chat in an FPS game or something. Try not to post 6 times for every post another player makes.

prev-edit:

Vote IceNinja

I'll vote you until you adequately respond to my case. Tomorrow (I'm off for tonight) I'll show people why you are scum.

[Humble Poirot]

Tl,Dr: IceGuy is scum. Read this and vote him. Or just vote him.

-

Vote IceGuy

(Mixed up the name because of UberNinja and the fact that I've played with IceNinja before)

- IceGuy comes out of the blue and absolutely states that SensFan is obviously town (no reason given). Votes Techno.
- He claims that his replacee (MormonCoffee) is likely town because he was active .
- Pretends absta comes out of the blue and votes SensFan after 3 days of absence.
- 275When called upon that fact, falsely states SensFan's vote wasn't out of the blue.
- in 278 he avoids quoting his response and just points to a number to support what he's saying. If you follow the links, his views are not supported in any way.

- This is were the fun part starts.
I call him on his falsehoods and absurd SensFan "defense" in 357

Tl,Dr:

- SensFan must claim or be hammered. He can't keep buying time in this manner.

-

I WILL hammer SensFan if he doesn't claim in his next post.

- IceGuy must explain why SensFan is "pretty obviously town" and stop lying in order to defend him
- Ignoring UberNinja's posts for now to avoid confusion.
-

FoS IceGuy

. Outright lies to defend SensFan (no town motivation for his interpretations).
- If anyone doubts that SensFan is making things up read his iso

[...]

@IceGuy:

Explain your conclusions. And, most of all, explain the bold claim that SensFan is obviously town. There's no way on earth anyone would believe that. Not even SensFan would dare suggest it.

You're outright lying in your defense of SensFan. You quote 109 and 231 as proof that SensFan's vote didn't come out of the blue and neither prove anything. But you don't link to them, you don't quote them. You just put the numbers there in hopes that no one will check.

Again, I never said it wouldn't be significant at some point; just that I don't have anything to say about it right now. As for the town reads, I was asked for the people I thought were most likely to be Town. I never said I have good Town reads- I don't.

Nothing here. He explicitly refuses to explain why is significant.
Conveniently leaves an open door for future interpretations (which he didn't provide anyway, when he voted Seacore).

Seacore is my top scumread.
Milk is second.

This post happens AFTER the 3 DAY ABSENCE. So it DOES come out of the blue.
He votes later that day. It's his first scumread declaration (he provides no reasoning behind it).

Do you honestly think TeChNoWC and DTMaster are bussing each other? Have you read how focus on both players started?

I'm just curious about this: why did you say "the fuck" in response to the quote in my post 30?

From that point, probably knowing his position on SensFan is absolutely
indefensible (there's no reason for it other than looking town by opposing what
he knows to be a mislynch) he proceeds to ignore me

in 362 he doesn't acknowledge my post, 3 posts above his.

- I call him out in 363 (right after).
- Ignored again in 367
- I write in large bolded letters, with a link to my post with questions, asking him if he is blind.
- He replies with No. Clearly enjoying the fact that he has acknowledged my presence without answering my questions.
- Regarding the altered quote, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Weird mistakes can happen.
- He ignores me again after 381 where I make clear that he's ignoring my questions and that I will vote him next day for fabricating reasons.
- Says he wants to start a counter-wagon in a one-liner with no accusations towards absta or developments on why TechnoWC is scum. This is part of the tactic to try to look town by avoiding the SensFan lynch but notice how

he doesn't seriously try to disrupt SensFan's wagon or convince people to vote someone else, it's just for show.

There's a number of posts after that where I make my thoughts towards IceGuy clear:

IceGuy's actions are incredibly scummy regardless of alignment. He has strongly challenged SensFan being scum without providing any credible reasons. He fabricated the ones he gave and hasn't provided decent cases on his alleged alternatives.

And that doesn't even begin to explain his complete avoidance of my posts.

He seems to only be looking to destabilize the game.

@TeChNoWC: Regardless of SensFan's alignment IceGuy's actions are scummy. He has no reason to defend SensFan with made up arguments (which I pointed out in my posts) and keep trying to debunk his waggon. He has no reason to ignore me. No reason as town, that is.

This is very important. You must love a thought process that involves a scummy defense as scum ONLY if that person flips scum. Because you knew you were safe from that.
- IceGuy keeps ignoring me in 414 and in 422 where he acts completely sure that SensFan's lynch is a mislynch and pretends it was a quick-hammer.

IceGuy has also tried to taint both DTMaster and TeChNoWC with accusations of bussing without developing.

SensFan, with his scummyness and anti-town attitude was going to get lynched so scum tries to get town points by pretending to be the concerned townie who's against the mislynch. In fact, scum is ok with the lynch but won't push it because it's going to happen.

IceGuy is scum. There's little question about it.

Some additional facts from d2:
It's quite funny he still tries to act as if I don't exist and asks me "what case".
Also, this

Except for me challenging the leading lynch and identifying a bunch of suspects, generally known as "scumhunting".

This completely enhances what he really did. Read this post. Read his ISO. To be crude, it's complete bullshit.

Notice how only today, when he can't absolutely do anything to save SensFan, does he provide disputable reasoning to say SensFan is town.

I'm just curious about this: why did you say "the fuck" in response to the quote in post 30?
Because Poirot suggested taking away a mean of scumhunting away from town.

Oh my. This is so bad. I say people shouldn't spam and suddenly I'm "taking a mean of scumhunting from town".

The guy should be a politician.

I must say I lost fervor when I noticed the lynch was inevitable. I tried challenging people, but when everybody is dead-set about lynching somebody the only thing you can do is watch and use the information you're gathering for next day's scumhunting.

All this "info gathering" speeches are nice but quite false. We gained nothing from a dragged D1 full of UberNinja spam and nonsense chatter.

From all your day 2 posts, I see no evidence of alleged gathered info from d1 to justify your lack of interest in actively trying (with reasons) to lynch someone and avoid SensFan's lynch.

He Keeps mischaracterizing the SensFan lynch as just a quick mislynch and quickhammer when the player was clearly refusing to claim and had been warned several times.

And now tries to smear the whole wagon on him with an assorted list of unsupported smears.

I hope everyone will vote him until he can no longer ignore the challenges against his very scummy behavior.

Lastly, after he is lynched and flips scum (I'm quite sure of this). Don't forget that scum busses. Don't just think that scum defends each other and attacks town. Sometimes scum will, even from very early in the game, bus a partner and defend a town player. Just keep it in mind.

[Humble Poirot]

As for the rest of the game.

- Absta can definitely be scum. But I'm way more confident that IceGuy is.
- @Seacore: Thoughts on IceGuy?
- @Seacore, have you read my points concering TechnoWC? Why are they wrong?
- @Aragula: I agree with mentioning RB and not doc is scummy but your conclusion is off.
As others have said. How would scum know if they had been blocked?
- Thomith keeps pushing the same tangent of IceGuy where he tries to make people in the SensFan waggon (specially the last ones) as scummy. This is absurd. Scum had much more to gain from leaving the game drag on forever. Scum had much more to gain from avoiding the position of hammerer. This makes Thomith look quite opportunistic but it can also mean he thinks in really simple terms. I'm still juding this due to his age and posting style.

Anyone else for setup speculation?

Not now. It's more likely to give clues to scum than anything else. Considering the lack of kill.
@Elmo, What's your take on IceGuy and what's your reasoning for UberNinja?
UberNinja's 463 is full of irony
@UberNinja: If you're town, I doubt scum would kill you either. And you're way more of a harm than absta is if he is town. So I'd lynch you any day, with that reasoning.

- @roflcopter, why is absta town and wtf is up with your fastswitches between IceGuy to UberNinja?

- Now that I'm caught up. I'll carefully read UberNinja's mess to discern whether he is just an awful and anti-town spammer or if he is all that AND scum.

I have a couple of other suspicions but will develop on them later after ISO reads and context analysis.

And I'll try and keep my posts short.

[Humble Poirot]

@IceGuy:
Assuming you are telling the truth:
1) why not use your watch?
2) How many shots is X?
3) Have you read my previous post? Answers?

@Thomith: I did give SensFan a final chance to claim. It was a very clear ultimatum. There had been others as well. That behavior of ignoring requests to claim at L-1 can not be tolerated.

@TechnoWC: I'm your strongest townread after yourself? Is there any possibility of me being more of a townread than you when you've supposedly seen your town PM?

@absta: I'm glad you voted IceGuy but it would be cool if you explained why, what do you agree/disagree with my post.

[Humble Poirot]

Oh, question for all the replacements. Did the mod tell you who you were replacing in the pm? (I'll explain why I want to know later)

And since this is a new page:

News: IceGuy claimed X-shot Watcher, no action n1. (He is L-2 because Techno unvoted)

[Humble Poirot]

My page update was ninja'd.

Don't you see for yourself why it's a bad idea to give scum this kind of information, while it's irrelevant for town?

No, I think you're leaving options open for future lies.

You'll adjust the number of watches towards whatever suits you best.

You need to fully claim your role.

After fully claiming, explain why is it better to wait to use your watch. Why is it bad to try and have info EARLIER? You were one of the people who kept talking about gaining info and you refused to try and gain info with your night action? I simply don't believe it.

It's the same old bullshit. You essentially took what I did, sometimes truthful, sometimes distorted, put it into a big-ass wallpost and claimed this was undeniable proof I was scum.

Really? That's all? Call it bullshit and move on?

Why didn't you say it was bullshit before?
Why don't you RESPOND to my points on your fabricated SensFan specifically?
Calling it bullshit is not enough. My initial posts against you were not big ass. The post is pretty readable.

In post 527, Humble Poirot wrote:Oh, question for all the replacements. Did the mod tell you who you were replacing in the pm? (I'll explain why I want to know later)
Are you trying to get people modkilled?

Are you trying to make me look bad with stupid accusations?

I'm trying to see if certain player would have a plausible excuse for not knowing who he was replacing. But I love how you started attacking me with whatever you could make up now that you're on the noose.

@TeChNoWC: then why mention yourself at all? (your question answered above)

[Humble Poirot]

@UberNinja, if you think IceNinja is town I'd like you to explain why.

If you think I'm wrong I'd like you to point where. If you need clarifications, ask.

If you think absta is scum, a case of "if he is town, scum won't lynch him" won't suffice. Try and convince people of the merits of your case.

Join dates or post counts don't make a player. Don't attack my persona, instead, address my arguments.

[Humble Poirot]

Why should I tell scum when they don't need to bother killing me because I've spent all my shots already and am therefore essentially a named VT? Why do you want to know this if you're town? How do you benefit from this?

Because you're either a mafia goon or mafia watcher who doesn't want to be tied down when plan tells him how to action. What's your plan? that we leave you alive and tell you to watch someone to later hear that surprisingly you "had no more shots" after all?

Really? That's all? Call it bullshit and move on?
Because it is bullshit.

Convincing. Too bad you're not the type of smart scum that makes engaging arguments. It's funnier that way.

Before was when I made asked all those questions d1.

See, this is an example for your bullshit. You misrepresent it as "fabricated SensFan" whatever, when I've explained approximately three hundred times why I had the town read on him, but you choose to ignore all those posts and keep up your bullshit OMG UNEXPLAINED TOWNREAD.

And this is YOUR bullshit. You didn't explain why SensFan was town until late today. You had no real intent of preventing his lynch.

Why do you want people to post parts of PMs from the mod? Don't you know posting PMs or parts of them gets you modkilled?

More lies to try to make me look as scum who resorts to cheap tactics.

I didn't ask anyone to QUOTE THEIR PMS, I asked them to answer yes or no.

I gotta go, we'll be back later tonight. Forgive typos

[Humble Poirot]

Hi. Quick post from phone.

I'm a bit surprised by the three kills after a night of no kills but I already have a couple of decent theories as to what might have happened.

If the setup is swingy it's better to know it now rather than later.

Today. My Iso of uber will come but there's also an impressive trove of information. We have 4 flips. One was scum. I've already had a couple of reads of mormon/iceguy to find connections but the town deaths are also very relevant and their interactions should be inspected.

What i'd like from everyone today is to REAlly look at the dead people and past events. Don't just vote each other with mini arguments.

This is the day where we must have meaningful discussions so we can definitely tip the balance in our favor.

Thanks seacore, absta and techno for playing.

Phew, this might be the longest cellphone post I've ever written.

[Humble Poirot]

Update: I misinterpreted the role hider and thought 3 deaths necessarily meant 3 kills but that's not accurate.

Anyway, still a lot to talk about. If anyone is unsure about what hides does check the wiki.

[Humble Poirot]

Quick review:

SensFan, Vanilla Townie, was lynched Day 1.
IceGuy, Mafia Goon, was lynched Day 2.
Seacore, Town Hider, was killed Night 2.
TeChNoWC, Vanilla Townie, was killed Night 2.
absta101, Vanilla Townie, was killed Night 2.
DTMaster, Mafia Roleblocker, was lynched Day 3.
Junpei, Town Jack of All Trades, was killed Night 3.

Alleged night actions:

No deaths night 1
Mafia tried to target the hider.
Junpei protected or inspected someone (might have been blocked). **

Night 2.
Hider Seacore dies (hiding behind DtMaster)
TechnoWC dies (shot by mafia)
absta101 dies (shot by Jack of all trades Junpei) *

Night 3.
Junpei dies with no protection
Junpei blocks Humble Poirot
(as announced in 650 and 661)

1*) based on 564 where Junpei thought Icegy and absta were scum together.
Junpei mentioned that TechnoWC's vote seemed like a bus but I don't see mafia shooting absta when plenty of people were willing to believe absta was scum regardless of IceGuy's alignment.
There's also the fact that Junpei says "absta101 is confirmed town.. crap" in 601

2**) I can't find tells regarding Junpei's n1 action so it's possible that he was roleblocked. A town result would've left a crumb somewhere and a protection would've left a town crumb as well considering there were no kills on n1. I can't find those crumbs (unless it's IceGuy -> mafia) so it's a possibility.

I want to understand n2 deaths so I'll read TeChNoWC and absta101 once more to see what can I find. Later IceGuy and DTMaster to see what connections to each of the possible suspects and finally ISO the 4 (thomith, Arugula, UN and Elmo) to see what happens with each one.

TechnoWC's death by mafia might be explained by his suspicion of DTMaster.

I'm not going to take long because I have some free time today so, max, tomorrow morning.

I've skimmed them all just now to get some insights but I feel the need to make a better investigation.

- So far, I'm still debating whether much of what Thomith does is scummy and wishy washy or just playstyle.
- Elmo seems deliberately unhelpful. His posts are poor in content and sometimes misleading (READ Iso).
- Arugula has flown for a long time under the radar but has also voted right in general.
- UN has avoided inspection by sheer amount of fluff. Which can be a scumtactic. He has been consistently wrong and several times, tried to emotionally steer the lynch into absta's direction instead of IceGuy. Also lined up absta's lynch with a SensFan town flip.

Let's not forget Elmo is Pheneas and UN is URoE. And IceGuy was MormonCoffee.

There's some interesting things related to Thomtith and MormonCoffee. If Thomith is scum, was he that straightforward to go along with MormonCoffee when attacking bork?

Thomith calling out IceGuy on his bs might be relevant as well:

I dont remember any of those 300 posts when you explained your townread on sens.

Doesn't seem like bussing.

IceGuy's relation to UN doesn't seem like that of a scummate though. Specially regarding the altered quote issue.

So far, I think Elmo is scum.

@Elmo: We need a good analysis of what Elmo thinks about all players but roflcopter.

I'll make sure to read rofl's argument on thomith after I properly read thomith's iso.

There's also an interesting fact about junpei saying that seacore was shot for being a cop but that doesn't really make sense since he was probably shot n1 and mafia had no way of knowing if he was crumbing yet (nothing to crumb) and n2 he wasn't shot (but hid behind scum).

Later guys, sorry for the lack of tidiness. Any questions? ideas? comments?

[Humble Poirot]

Damn it, forgot my intro:

Hi, everyone. Try not to lynch someone in the next five seconds. (edit: )I'm doing some ISOs and thinking about this game.

Junpei dying has much more to do with the fact that he softclaimed being able to block and that he was super town considering he played an influential role in both scum lynches.

Yes, roflcopter was confirmed but

Junpei was a PR and also virtually confirmed town.

[Humble Poirot]

We have time, considering UberNinja just went V/LA AFTER voting Elmo. Which doesn't fit very nicely with his previous concern yesterday that we had to discuss things when people wagoned DTMaster.

roflcopter: Don't worry. I'll be thorough. Has tomith responded to your accusations?

@Thomith:

I'd like you to write an explanation of how you're more likely town than Elmo considering roflcopter's case on you and your case (more context and detail?) about Elmo.

[Humble Poirot]

I'm not going to post my updated ISO reads until the suspects start talking. This is not an impasse. There's no excuse for such a deafening silence.

Elmo, Aragula and thomith need to come here and discuss options, their suspects, their thoughts and responses to their accusations. The first two of that list have posted elsewhere.

I want people other than roflcopter to say what they think about my post too.

[Humble Poirot]

Elmo, Aragula

and thomith need to come here and discuss options, their suspects, their thoughts and responses to their accusations.

The first two

of that list have posted elsewhere.

It's funny how you perpetually appeal to emotion. Calling for your lynch, calling for your kill, saying mafia is taking advantage of you, etc.

Do I take it that you're ok to get lynched if we lynch Elmo tomorrow?

No comment whatsoever about my post where I talk about the setup, actions and what I think of each player? What's your read on Aragula? What's your read on UN? What about me?

[Humble Poirot]

Your stance is forever convenient Thomith. Everyone else is town by POE? Does that mean you have absolutely NO READS on the rest of the players?

You didn't answer my question. How hard are you willing to bet on Elmo being scum? Getting both of you lynched?

The setup speculation thing is not dangerous at this point and quite useful in terms of how you assess each player, to see If you're paying attention to the game, if you can come up with creative ideas, if you show intent in scum hunting via analysis of the past game (Dead players are not irrelevant, not at all).

Thomith, the thing is, you don't seem to answer direction questions. You usually explain yourself in a general manner and without committing to anything.

In this late stage, the only motivation for withholding thoughts and reads seems to be a scum motivation.

[Humble Poirot]

quick post from cel: busy until late tonight or tomorrow.

Elmo. thomith today and if he flips town, you tomorrow? eh? is that what you're suggesting by not doing anything else but voting?

[Humble Poirot]

If Thomith is not scum, Tomorrow we lynch UberNinja

. If I die, I trust rofl to do it.

We should've MC'd today.

UberNinja HAS COME TO HAMMER FROM A "V/LA" after saying yesterday that we needed discussion. Today he doesn't seem to want discussion.

[Humble Poirot]

Alright but let's not forget that 2 kills happened last night so we either have 2 mafia factions or a mafia and an SK so... let's get a good amount of discussion in before two (three, including the lynch) more people die.

Ciao, I'll bbl but this is my quick post for now.

[Humble Poirot]

UN, if not scum, has to be the worst player I've met. No discussion.

Look at his activity. He has been active (and wordy) around mafiascum today 16th June but won't say anything of value besides hammering thomith.

And dares suggest we lynch rofl.

One more time, if Thomith is not scum. We lynch UN.

[Humble Poirot]

Quick post from cell. I'm really glad neither Elmo nor UN won. Congrats scum but mainly congrats Aragula taking advantage of a fully anti town set of players. And coasting your way to victory. Don't appreciate the slowroll but at least the game is finally over.

Mafia traitor makes so much sense but everyone on the dead qt was looking for an SK.

More later.

[Humble Poirot]

Cel: I'm sorry i didn't make the time to finish and post my analysis.

It's laying there 75% done in a txt. I'll post it tomorrow.