Mini 1354: Vedere le Viste! Game Over!

[Luckyjt]

Hello will read the game right now and post as soon as Im done.

[Luckyjt]

Current reads:

Arugula - Scummy. His posts seem to be largely following bandwagons and he seems to feel a need to justify every one of his actions, even the RVS. Call it a gut-read, but I get a scum vibe from him.
Axxle - Null. Nothing has really stood out in his posts, but he has contributed to scumhunting.
Bud - Town. He's gone after and remained fixated on scummy behaviour, without jumping onto whatever bandwagon comes along.
Furcolow - what the hell. Null leaning town only because I doubt any scum would post something as crazy for a first post
Konowa - Null leaning town. His posts have been small, his votes largely unjustified, and his own reactions haven't helped him appear townish, but I get a townvibe from his aggressive demeanor.
RXK - Town. His posts have been very rational and critical, and also nitpicky. The nitpicking, in particular, qualifies as a very town trait to me.
Scumhunter - Null. Not that much content to go off, but the content he's posted hasn't stunk of scum. He does appear to be being incredibly cautious, which is a potential scum-trait, but from some of his meta I've read he appears to be cautious in general.
SodaSpirit - Scummy. Not much content, cautious, and not very critical. At the very least anti-town play.
Tangion -Scum. Look at his posts through the eyes of newb scum. It fits perfectly.
TheWorst - Town. Content-filled posts, clear views, sound reasoning, consistent.
Thomith - Null leaning scum. Could feasibly be scum, but I feel as though the best way to test it is through lynching Tangion. If Tangion flips scum, hang Thomith. If for some reason we lynch Soda instead of Tangion, and Soda flips town, we lynch Thomith. His stances are so simplistic and unfounded on logic, but he seems to hold them strongly, meaning that I think a lynch on either Tangion or Soda (both of whom I consider more scummy) could give us Thomith's alignment.
Yabbaguy - Null leaning scum. Not much to go off of, but his attacks on Axxle are ridiculously thin. Overconfidence in a single sentence of a single post? And his blindness to Tangion, yet a

Vote:Tangion

That's L-1. No one hammer yet anyway, give Tangion a chance to defend himself.

I would like to see a claim from Tangion, personally. I think his response will give us a good idea of how earnest he is.

Ok from my quick read through, I find mcstab scummy. He is basically standing strong on the Tangion lynch but is at the same time trying to last minute change the wagon to my slot in a subtle manner. He then votes Tangion to me trying to get on the wagon to lose suspicion. I will ISO him and see if I find anything else on him. A lynch on him will be helpful to find Thomiths alignment.

Furculow, Arugula, and axxie seem suspicious for their votes.

I can see why the yabba lynch makes sense, this will also help identify axxie based on the flip. I will read through once more before placing a vote.

[Luckyjt]

Giving someone a chance to claim before lynching them and trying to switch a wagon are totally different things. Let me run you through my logic so that I can be clear and you have no excuse for misunderstanding or misconstruing:


Thomith's interactions with Tangion and Soda, both of whom appeared scummy, led me to believe that although Thomith was scummy, we could determine his alignment without having to lynch him.

The way we would determine his alignment without having to lynch him was lynching Tangion or Soda, both of whom I believed were scummy.

Tangion was the scummier of the two (note that I declare Tangion "Scum", but Arugula and Soda as "Scummy").

Because of this, I then put Tangion at L-1. If this is what you call changing the wagon, then I'm truly flabbergasted.

If Tangion flipped scum, I was convinced (and still am) that Thomith is likely scum. If, instead of Tangion, Soda ended up being hanged that day (and flipped town), I would've concluded Thomith was scum.

I'm starting to re-evaluate that decision based on this pseudo-scumhunting on your part.

Yabbaguy is still the best choice to wagon up on right now, but consider the Soda/Lucky slot back on my radar.

@Lucky - Why are Furcolow, Arugula and Axxle suspicious for their votes? How will lynching me be helpful to find Thomith's alignment (if I flip town, what does that mean for Thomith? If I flip scum, what does that mean for Thomith).

All three of them wagoned, sheeped whatever. Look at their vote posts.

The reason i said you seemed to try changing the wagon last minute was because you gave like 3 options to go for the day. Like saying here are alternatives to do. Then you voted which to me felt "in case you dont change let me get my vote down." I hope you understand how I read that post.

You and Thomith cant be scum together. Im pretty sure of this. So if one flips scum I would be 100% town. Its the same result if we lynch Tomith and he flips scum, you would be town. So I would be down for a Tomith lynch as well.

[Luckyjt]

Guys get you votes off me. If I am lynched I will be so pissed. Look let me read through again. I just joined the game yesterday night so you dont have to be this quick to lynch me. Just give me a little time to get good reads. I will claim once I am fully done reading. Scum are 100% on my wagon. Axxie is wagoning again. If you meta me you will notice one thing for sure. I dont place my votes to quickly on people unless i have a really really good case or someone else has a case on them. Or at the start of the game for whatever its called.

[Luckyjt]

An once more I will try and explain why I think Mcstab was trying to change t wagon in a subtle way. In his post he put Tangion in L-1 correct yet instead of saying. With his so and so is scum, he said with his flip so and so is scum/town, if we lynch this other player (s) then so and so is town/scum. See the difference? Although he placed his vote he gave multiple options for lynching. Thus to me seemed to be trying to change the wagon by giving people other options to vote.

I will now reread the game and get more reads.

[Luckyjt]

The case on Lucky is that he came into the game with a bunch of reads that seemed very, very off. Then he backed off the next post after I called him out on it.

I personally want to see Lucky claim or offer some more scumreads, but yes, I'm more likely to lynch yabba overall for the day. I'm still keeping this pressure on Lucky until he comes up with a reason for me to take it off though.

I never backed off. Quote me if I did.

[Luckyjt]

Oops forgot to add this. about the Yabba wagon. The post that was quoted about him saying that he didnt see Tangion scummy. yes I can see how scum could be saying this but in my last open game I played, I did the same thing. Both wagons that took off I said I did not see those players scummy and they both flipped scum. I was town and almost got lynched for it.

I posted this in response to a question I was asked. I will not compose a complete read with town/mafia/null and a brief reasoning behind it. Anyone know what kind of setup this is or how many scum/town would there be?

"preview post"
I can not explain Soda's action because I am not Soda. But didnt he only post a couple of times then disappeared and thus got replaced?

"second preview post"
I didnt mention Tomith in my first post because I was looking directly at your post since from what I first read that post caught my eye. Remember you were the first read I had. I do not see Tomith as town either. I do have suspicion over him and have not cleared him as town since it should be implied by the, I believe one is scum, thus I am not seeing a town vs town argument. You just seemed scummier with that post. Now I do not feel that you are bussing your partner if you are scum thats why i dont think you and Tomith can be partners. One is scum one is town. This is if there are 3 scum which is what I have seen in most of my mini themes.

So an explanation of my actions. I got my role quickly read the game, saw your post, thought to myself this seems really scummy to me, quoted it.

[Luckyjt]

Furcolow ??????? either a troll town or a genius mafia. All of his posts are scummy.
Thomith leaning scum Okay he seems to try and distance himself from Tangion a lot and posts towards the end for what seems to be town cred.Quickly defends himself about being related to Tangion in the game. He seems to ignore mcstabs post as well despite Mcstab mentioning tomith was scum various times. Thus a reason why this is not bussing. Scum would defend themselves passionately while bussing with their scum partner.
Scumhunter leaning scum so many one liners. Defends Tangion a lot but look at my read on Axxie. Wagon on me. Actually thinking about it if there was a Yabba lynch today and he flipped scum I would drop all my reads and vote scumhunter for his post with the vote on me.
Arugula leaning scum, he wagons a lot. 3 of his votes actually I believe.
TheWorst town, his posts seem genuine and has posed quite a few times with what seem like good posts. I dont agree with him at times, but he does have his opinions and backs them up.
Axxle null, he also wagons a lot but he is much more questioning of people which actually looks like real scumhunting.
Bub Bidderskins town, he actually analyses posts. So for the most town actually, but the one things ive learnt from my past games. Never fully trust the most town slot.
McStab leaning scum that one post plus, his response to the questions asked early day one. he likes playing as scum and town. The ambiguous answer seems to be an attempt to give in a tell on what he likes. Of course it could be the truth and thus this is just a minor point. Votes Tomith but is feeling a Yabba lynch once the wagon begins to go off....
Konowa town. In general he seems town building cases on people but that same point bothers me. Scum seem to always have a reason for a vote in their vote post. (self conscious.) They are much more careful in order to not look scummy. But that same point works for day 2 in the opposite way. He seems to sheep a little which to me makes me believe that his votes day 1 were real cases since as I said scum would heavily fortify their votes with reasons each time they voted. (The one exception of bad wagoning would be wagoning on what seems to be an obscure wagon which he does not do.)

[Luckyjt]

@the worst

With RXK dying, I get a real sense that there is scum in the group of

Thomith, Arugula or yabbaguy

. Like I said yesterday, if Tangion flips scum, I think Thomith is still a super valid target. Read his ISO and tell me that newbscum wouldn't act like that with Tangion. A weak attempt at distancing but still refusing to physically vote and bus his partner. I think it's fair to say Soda comes across as more town, but still nowhere near conf. town at this point.

Seriously, reading Thomith's ISO and Tangion's first post + post #47 and tell me that that's not a huge scum association right there.

Arugula and yabbaguy are mainly up there because I already had scumreads on them and also because RXK seemed to be one of the few other players who doubted them. See RXK's second last and last posts of Day One.

Vote: Thomith

Thomith, Arugula, and yabbaguy - who do you think are scum?

One of the bolded. I concluded it cant be Tomith, so it would have to Yabba or Arugula. Most likely Arugula since Mcstab keeps mentioning Arugula is scummy but never acts upon it.

[Luckyjt]

One things for sure, if you guys still want to go on with my lynch, dont do it until after 4pm gmt-4 tomorrow. I wont beon until around that time maybe a bit earlier. I dont want to be lynched while Im away from the computer for a last minute defense.

[Luckyjt]

Here we go since I seem to not be shaking off the wagon I will claim. Im good as dead now. i am a cop. a role cop to be exact. It should have been implied that I was a power role by refusing to claim, but since none of you seem to have got it then whatever. Scum got what they wanted, I claimed. This also explains why I said I would be pissed if I got lynch. This is my first time ever having a power role in this site and i was excited about it. post ed my opening thoughts on my first read through and boom now Im about to get lynched.

[Luckyjt]

vote: Mcstab

There happy I voted.
No

[Luckyjt]

I replaced in yesterday during the day phase. Soda was out during day 1 day phase. No one was active during the night phase thus no investigation. I believe I understand why we have a town cop because even though I am a cop my investigation only says vanilla or not basically. So its rather vague.

And yes I know role cop is usually a scum align role, but the purpose of my role seems to be to narrow Power roles from vanillas to somewhat reduce who is suspicious. Its not an exact answer. I was prepared to claim just cop since I am in a risky position in being lynched and for town that would not be beneficial to lynch a cop. I was afraid to claim role cop since it is usually a scum role but i wanted/want to be completely honest with my claim while not going in with too much detail in order to not get modkilled or anything.

@Konowa look at my reads post. I really summed up already who I believe are the possible scum. I dont like repeating myself over and over again when the answers are a page away.

[Luckyjt]

I don't believe lucky's claim. Look at his behavior since the claim. Lurk, no contribution, not really trying to convince anyone. Pretty much resigned to being lynched and a last gasp attempt to get people off him.

Plus, even if he is telling the truth, which I severely doubt, a mafia goon is already dead and likely would only be able to catch 1 other scum probably. I still want to string lcuky up.

Konowa, post 102 makes it somewhat unlikely that Thomith + jt are scum don't you think? Hmmzies.

I lurk in all my games a lot. And I have been posting since my claim. Ive given my reads alreay. What else do you want me to do? Now look at the bold. There is a chance I am town and a chance I can find one mafia and you still want to lynch me? I may have to reconsider my reads. ISo on scumhunter coming. Now I was also bus yesterday (im building a website) so I was especially lurky yesterday and posted if I really needed to only.

[Luckyjt]

Why is it that people say there is a slight possibly I am a town rolecop and still want to lynch me without letting myself and try to prove myself with an investigation? You are trying to get a claimed power role lynch who you believe is scummy, yet there are other players who people believe scummy an you still prefer my lynch. That seems like you are pushing my lynch for the purpose of getting a power role lynched.

Ok lynch me see my flip then see what you make of it. One scum is definitely pushing my wagon while the other is defending me or staying quiet. If both scum were pushing my wagon that would be really dumb.

Now this is wifom but whatever, If I were scum wouldnt it have made much more sense to claim cop? Cop is a mostly town role so I would be cleared from being lynched. If there is another cop i would get a counter claim which would then make the cop an easy target for the mafia. Now I go out an claim Role cop knowing it is usually a scum role but what can I do to help it, its my role Im not going to claim something different as town.

[Luckyjt]

I joined a couple days ago. Soda was still in my slot during the night phase and didnt send anything in and probably got replaced for that. I joined during the day phase.

I asked the question a few pages back about how many scum would be in this setup. No one answered but it seemed people assumed 3 since they keep asking if blank is scum who would be there scum partner. Thus they assume 3 so I am going by 3.

[Luckyjt]

vote: Yabba

Any other cops feel free to target me tonight I will go for an investigate on one of the three Venmar, Scumhunter. the worst.

Now just look at Yabba's post on me. He didnt want me around, shouldnt that be enough if he is now confirmed scum to clear me? But whatever go ahead an lynch me tomorrow, it will be just one more day delay for lynching actual scum.

[Luckyjt]

Lucky, if you think you can prove that you're a role cop, investigate me tonight.

I may or may not do this. I will however investigate one of those 3 i mentioned and will display the results only if I have reason to believe they are scum.

[Luckyjt]

I know who I am investigating 2 are random.

[Luckyjt]

So should I claim role or my target? I intend to claim based on the next response.

[Luckyjt]

I targeted Scumhunter last night.

[Luckyjt]

Scumhunter is Vanilla.

I can investigate Bub tonight if you guys want.

[Luckyjt]

Venmar, i believe your lynch would confirm me then. That would leave Bub as scum unless the town is stacked with PR's.

@The worst, there is chance I get confirmed with Venmars lynch if he is telling the truth. If he is lying then he is probably scum and we win. His lynch is the best for today. His role, was made to be lynched.

vote:Venmar

[Luckyjt]

Okay, it looks i will be lynched even if we don't do a massclaim so i am going to ahead and claim.

I am a

Town Oracle.

This is a experimental role that i believe Philammon came up with.

Every night phase I can target one player ( Or "scy" ). If I would have died that day, and the person i targeted was town, they would be publicly confirmed by the mod as aligned with the town.

If the person i targeted was aligned with scum, i believe nothing happens. So basically, i am a Town-Only Death Cop, is the best way i can explain it. N1 Thomith targeted Scumhunter, probably on the assumption he was town, last night i targeted Lucky. I also tried to get Lucky to investigate me so hard because if he successfully said i was Oracle, we would both be confirmed, so i tried to get us confirmed. Sorry for the WIFOM.

You said day.

unvote:Venmar

Fine I will volunteer myself to be lynch. Its hard to believe that town have 3 power roles and I believe Venmars claim because its so obscure. Which leaves Bubs. I had a town read on him but that goes out the trash now. lynch me then lynch Bubs tomorrow or go straight ahead with his lynch. i promise I am town.

[Luckyjt]

Sorry, that was a typo.

Umm, why is Bub exactly on your scum list?

3 pr's on towns side while one or none on scum seems to overpowered for the town. Especially a role cop and watcher on one side which or both a form of investigative roles.

[Luckyjt]

"or" was meant to say "are" in the post above.

[Luckyjt]

Lets lynch Bubs after he posts his result. I will look into Axxie tonight if the game has not ended.

@Bubs are you limited to how often you can watch someone? Like is it 1 shot..etc or every night?

[Luckyjt]

Yes I understand who to target tonight.

[Luckyjt]

lynch: theworst

He is not a VT.

[Luckyjt]

Dont finish the day soon. I have something important to say but I have to leave right now. Ill be back around 3pm maybe later, just wait for me.

[Luckyjt]

I have never been asleep for this long ever. I went to sleep for 17 hours and just woke up. Give me a little time to get back to my senses.

@The Worst why would you claim Vt yesterday when you are not?

[Luckyjt]

unvote theworst

Yes it was a reaction test. I followed with the plan and investigated Venmar. I had suspicion of TheWorst during the end of last day and was hoping he was scum and would just give up.

My investigation seem to come up with just the role name and no alignment since I only got that Venmar was an oracle.

[Luckyjt]

I actually dont know what it was but sometimes something sticks out to me and then it just bothers me until I get that person lynched or they get confirmed.

[Luckyjt]

Im trusting Bub right now. Lets lynch Elmo, the bub can check out theworst, I will check out Arugula. This way if one of them is mafia they will be forced to no action or be killed. If for some reason scum isnt found we no lynch. then both of us will check out Mcstab and if he isnt scum we lynch bub. But right now i trust Bub.

[Luckyjt]

Wait what is a watcher exactly? A watcher watches what people do correct. Like last night Bub targeted Venmar and said Venmar visited me or did I read wrong?

[Luckyjt]

I watched lucky and he was only visited by venmar, so nothing strange there.

VOTE: Bub
Yeah I like this vote

Vote: Elmo

This makes me think that Elmo is sparing me to try and lynch me using WIFOM. He's been trying to put me in the prospective lynch pool ever since I wasn't killed N-2.

Wait I thought Bub was supposed to watch Venmar, my bad.

Ok I mixed up watcher with a different role that i cant think of the name right now. I guess yes then he should watch me while I confirm people.

[Luckyjt]

Im almost certain scum lies between Arugula/TheWorst. I was just reading Yabba's ISO. (I laughed at his last post.)

[Luckyjt]

Scum might as well give up haha.

vote:Arugula

[Luckyjt]

Doesnt matter, Elmo's hammer makes him look really bad if Aru is town. Even if i where to die I trust this town to be smart enough to get scum. Although I am thinking Aru is scum based on his reaction.

[Luckyjt]

Great job town.

@TheWorst well it was a reaction test for you and I wanted to see what other people said. My whole I have something important to say was to delay your lynch, since I wanted to see reactions. And I could never figure out what made you scummy but something did.


@Everyone I have something to tell you guys. I was a 2-shot. I was going to experiment with claiming that I had investigation results each night. I only investigated Scumhunter and Venmar.