Mini 1338: Cyborgian Reenactment Mafia (Game Over!)

[Oversoul]

I am calling this now, and you can all thank me when we're done. The Hez-kondi exchange strikes me as a forced bus right off the bat. For kondi, taking his answers too seriously and for Hez, grasping at straws.

Unvote Common Man; Vote kondi

Holy good god no.

VOTE: Peabody

[Oversoul]

Hez, what was the most recently finished game you were town in?

How about you do the legwork and go check the topics I've posted in?

No problem when he asked Nisani this question?

[Oversoul]

Kondi, its Paranoia mafia.

[Oversoul]

How does asking someone he has never played with for some information translate to that? Maybe I'm not suspicious enough or you're oversuspicious but that is jumping to conclusions early, just like Peabody and his vote.

pedit:

Money, no. Just no.

I agree with kondi

[Oversoul]

Lolno. Just cause you think Peabody is wrong doesn't make him scum. This is dumblogic.

Good thing that isn't the reason I'm voting for him.

[Oversoul]

Toast, what do you think of Hez?

I don't know, personally. I'm withholding judgement of him for later, but he is a lot more reserved than the last game I played with him.

[Oversoul]

Peabody saying there's a bus on page 1 is lolwut

It is overzealous scumhunting. Not only does it stretch the truth, but also assumes a connection read on page fucking

ONE

.

It isn't "lolwut" or "wrong". It is fake.

[Oversoul]

Potentially, yes. I have more or less a town read on you. I'm interested in seeing more from certain people though.

[Oversoul]

In order to look town by "scumhunting"?

[Oversoul]

Over soul, think of it as a wild guess presented as absolute fact. I saw something weird and I pointed it out.

I'm not the first or last in these 3 pages to do it either.

So that makes it okay? The fact that other people are doing it? It doesn't work that way, Peabody.

I know others have done similar things, but you have an older joindate than them. You should know better.

[Oversoul]

Over soul, think of it as a wild guess presented as absolute fact. I saw something weird and I pointed it out.

I'm not the first or last in these 3 pages to do it either.

So that makes it okay? The fact that other people are doing it? It doesn't work that way, Peabody.

I know others have done similar things, but you have an older joindate than them. You should know better.

Wait what the fuck is this shit? This is far and away the WORST logic I have seen.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oversoul

Your entire logic against Peabody is bad. You are either retarded, or overzealous scum trying to forge an early mislynch.




Or both.

I'll give you a hint

It's because

I'm retarded.

Peabody, I would like you to comment my post 73.

[Oversoul]

@BB @ Overtoast: Can we agree to call each other town for today until proven otherwise so we can work together and get shit done?

That lasted long.

I really like Peabody's reaction to my accusations.

Peabody, I singled you out specifically one because of your join date and two because your assumption seemed like the largest leap. It looked overzealous like over eager scum trying to stretch something minor into a case.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nisani

[Oversoul]

Good thing. What was the reason?

Have you been reading?

I literally just said so in the post above this one, Oman. :\

My Kondi read is based on meta mostly. He tries to push things more aggressively as scum and I don't see him being too aggressive here.

I will admit I use outdated meta though and I haven't had a finished game with him in a while.

[Oversoul]

Have you been reading?

I literally just said so in the post above this one, Oman. :\

That post was a pre-edit read (as in, you posted between me hitting reply and hitting submit). I didn't get any context with it when I read.

The whole "are you even reading?" thing is pretty actively aggressive though. Simmer.

Have you been reading?

I literally just said so in the post above this one, Oman. :\

That post was a pre-edit read (as in, you posted between me hitting reply and hitting submit). I didn't get any context with it when I read.

The whole "are you even reading?" thing is pretty actively aggressive though. Simmer.

I didn't mean it to be aggressive I just found it surprising you missed the post. I should have looked at the timestamps.

[Oversoul]

That post was really bad Kondi.

[Oversoul]

Kondi, are you suspicious of Oman? Do you have any opinion of Oman?

[Oversoul]

Kinda suspicious. I thought his argument was crap, and he seems like a smart guy.

Do you find his reasoning for voting you suspect because he didn't mention Moneybags?

Peabody, I could give a rat's arse about what people think of me in this game. My actions are independent of other people's unless I specifically say so. I'm not here to "prove" anything and if people think I am suspicious they'll think that.

I'm used to being suspected by now because I'm almost always viewed as scummy early game for no discernible reason in my mind. :\

[Oversoul]

Man these posts look SO familiar. It's like it's a really aggressive scumbag trying to force the lynch down saying he can "read the newbscum"!

Ohwait.jpg

That's exactly what I see.

This is how Hez plays. I would say he isn't being aggressive enough considering my last experience with him, but he does act and say things "I know everything, scum are dead to the world b/c I'm here"

It is his meta and voting him for that specific reason is a cop out.

Oversoul still needs death, like... NOW. Shit like 85 is ridiculously scummy and we need to impale him on a branch asap.

I don't even get a stake? Just a branch?

How barbaric.

I can't believe you guys are still lynching me. I've defended myself, but clearly you don't care to listen.

I am going to re-look over Kondi and see if he is a good lynch suspect. How do you "isolate" someone's posts?

This post is making me do a double take. Nisani thinks that his defense is supposed to automatically remove suspicion and he is actually surprised that his defense didn't work? Uh...

Oman seems pretty wishy-washy (saying that if I convince him that Nisani is newbscum, he'll vote for him. No duh)

I agree that Oman is suspicious, but I don't really like the post that this came from overall.

This is a note to return back to it.

Someone asked me a question twice, but I can't for the life of me find it. Find that one too. >_>

[Oversoul]

Argula, what is your reasoning for voting Nisani?

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, what did I say to change your thoughts on me? Did it have anything to do with others attacking you for bad logic?

Ok, I figured out why I was confused. I didn't answer the first part.

Peabody,

Originally I was trying to set a trap for you, asking you whether or not you thought it was okay because others committed the same actions that you did, much like I tried to set a trap for Kondi with regards to his suspicious comment asking Oman why he ignored Money for "doing the same thing".

Over soul, think of it as a wild guess presented as absolute fact. I saw something weird and I pointed it out.

I'm not the first or last in these 3 pages to do it either.

So that makes it okay? The fact that other people are doing it? It doesn't work that way, Peabody.

I know others have done similar things, but you have an older joindate than them. You should know better.

Your answer was not the typical scum pattern that I thought would have occurred. You didn't say that your actions or anyone else's actions were any less scummy because multiple people were doing it and you then clarified the reasoning for your own assertion, which again, isn't the typical scum behavior that I would have predicted.

OverSoul,

1) I am hardly trying to say that it's 'okay' that I posted the way I did because other people were posting like that. My accusation was literally the second accusation in the thread. Therefore, this assumption just doesn't work. I didn't know how other people would act AFTER me. My point was to question your qualms with MY accusation while ignoring the early accusations of others.
2) My join date doesn't indicate ANYTHING. I've only played 5 games on this site.

With Kondi's trap I was aiming to see whether or not he suspected Oman more so because he ignored Money. It took longer to get the desired information out of Kondi than I would have liked, which gives me pause, but he eventually did answer it.

His answer is cryptic and pings my mind with "caught for the wrong reasons", but I don't think Kondi would openly state that as scum either.

Leads me to another point, Kondi, do you think Oman's suspicions are right, other than him saying you are scum for your read on me?

[Oversoul]

I see. I'll go through those posts and Nisani's iso in a little while, but first, define your opinion on an empty vote.

[Oversoul]

I see. I'll go through those posts and Nisani's iso in a little while, but first, define your opinion on an empty vote.

A vote that is not accompanied by reasoning.

What's the matter with that?

[Oversoul]

I am going to take a page out of Oman's book and say this is a newbie mistake, but a lot of people on this site vote without any immediate reasoning.

I thought it was clear from Nisani's posts preceding that vote and Peabody's responses in between that he was voting Peabody for the things he [Nisani] had already stated.

[Oversoul]

The phrasing on this is kind of strange. What did you expect the typical scum to say in relation to your case?

Others are doing it why aren't you going after them
you're ignoring others/tunneling me

I don't really have much time for this tonight and I still haven't read through the iso yet

[Oversoul]

I'm getting all kinds of bad feelings about lynching Nisani... god why are you acting so much like a survivalist? :\

I'm going to read through your ISO now and make my decision. Agar is on my second preferred wagon. Hez wagon is just bad for the time being.

[Oversoul]

Spoiler: Ambivalence

I am calling this now, and you can all thank me when we're done. The Hez-kondi exchange strikes me as a forced bus right off the bat. For kondi, taking his answers too seriously and for Hez, grasping at straws.

Unvote Common Man; Vote kondi

You are both "grasping at straws." Not a good case at all.

This whole reaction chain of people voting for voting for stupid stuff makes me unsure of who is trying to mislead us. You could all be town, or one of you could have malicious purpose.

That's why we should stop this nonsense and find a better discussion starter.

Nisani, are you watching or are you typing a post?

I'm here. Not typing a post.

Bad logic does not necessarily mean scum.

I'm not sure myself who the scum are. I just see a bunch of finger pointing, but nothing to build a case on.

Bandwagoning is really the only option for me because I know that if I make a case on anyone, it is going to be ignored.

I don't understand how post 20 reflects me trying to be overly cautious about the town's opinion on me. Even then, how is that a scumtell?

I suppose this is more of a critique of this community in general, but I don't understand how you hope to nail any scum in any game using these kinds of scumtells. All mafia has to do is avoid "trying to looking town" (wut) and they can be clear from lynch for the first few days? The whole game? idk, I haven't read through any games here yet.

Your vote on me is a failure to realize the position I'm in. I'll visualize it for you, since it might be hard from another perspective.

I'll start with my mentality when "sheeping" Kondi. I have a shit ton of people angrily voting for me. There are hardly enough posts to make a decent case on anyone without looking like a "white knight." My only option is to vote Kondi and hope that enough people will pick up on it to save myself from the lynch.

When I vote Hez, I realize that it is more likely for him to be scum because he started the case on me with horrible evidence-- it is perhaps more likely that he is scum too. And since it was gaining speed, I thought it would be better to vote him.

As for post 75 that you linked, yes I realize that that is a pretty shitty post and doesn't contribute much. But imo I don't think it's very scummy.

All of these posts are posts by Nisani that make me question whether or not he is scum. Either he is scum that thinks he is infallible and has very good play, or he is town and simply does not understand why people have a problem with his posts. I remember a time when I was like this and I couldn't understand at all why people were pressuring me and calling me scum.

His posts all look scummy, but the fact that Nisani is plainly saying the things he is saying and asking these questions make me think he really is confused about everything. At first I just looked at everything in a glance, but now after reading through his iso and looking at his motivations (thanks to the post he just made) I don't really think he is scum.

His wagon happened WAY too quickly given the relatively large amount of "newbies" and if any of them were a buddy I don't think they would be on this wagon.

UNVOTE:

[Oversoul]

Tajun, what is the way you "like" to play scum?

And what was Peabody doing at the time that made you think he was scum?

Argula, do you have any other reads outside of Nisani being scum?

[Oversoul]

I am suspicious of Tajun as well, although that's only a relatively minor suspicion.

I can't fucking sleep because this asshole bird is chirping like no fucking tomorrow at 1 fucking o clock right outside my window.

Also, reading through a lot of people have been saying my play/tone seems angry. Do I come off as an angry player? :c

[Oversoul]

You think Argula is town? Why? I didn't like his entrance to the game and some of his reasoning in that case against Nisani is suspect.

[Oversoul]

BTW, I will post my rough reads at this point in the game, in my favourite "one of" format that I used in Paranoia Mafia.

Uhh...

Why did you mention that specifically?

>error corrected

[Oversoul]

Fail quote tags

Tim, fix please? :3

[Oversoul]

Kondi, are you actively avoiding this thread?

[Oversoul]

36 hours and I saw you quite frequently posting elsewhere in this very forum last night

[Oversoul]

BBmolla, are you going to be playing under Mallard or no?

I think you are wrong about Hez seeing as this is typical "I know everything, worship my feet, mortals" Hez.

Peabody, the fact that you can see the motivation of town in the post proves my point that this could Nisani playing a game that is much too aggressive for his normal playstyle.

[Oversoul]

I'll make a post ... later

not feeling too well

[Oversoul]

Hez, why did you remove the avatar? Don't tell me you're leaving again?

I am going to do my reread now.

[Oversoul]

Hez, why did you remove the avatar? Don't tell me you're leaving again?

I am going to do my reread now.

Apologies I have uploaded a very basic avatar to act as my temporary avatar. It is very low quality and makes me feel like a transvestite, but whatever as long as it helps you guys out.

LOLOLOLL

I'M DYING OF LAUGHTER

[Oversoul]

Hez, if you're town, you're an egotistical bad player. I was attempting to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it's possible I'm wrong.

Classic scum play trying to justify a mislynch by calling a town player "bad".

Oh god, please die.

I'm actually calling you decent, which is why I think you're scum, because I don't think you'd play this bad as town.

oK, this stops NOW.

Everyone on Hez's wagon, please go read The Computer's Paranoia Mafia. Just iso Hezwavre.

In that game he was town.

In that game he acted cocky.

In that game he pushed for lynches.

In this game what is he doing?

Compare the play, they are *very* similar.

Now, please, move your vote elsewhere.

BBmolla, you should know this already. You were IN that game.

We kept Hezlucky alive until the end because we weren't really afraid of his shenanigans and could use his sporadic play against the town.

The fact that he is being pushed for a lynch here means someone wants an easy lynch on him.

[Oversoul]

BBmolla, you should know this already. You were IN that game.

Then why don't I remember Hez being this cocky and wrong.

I night killed you Night 2 after a quicklynch so realistically, you only lived for one Day.

That might be the reason.

[Oversoul]

Until further notice, both BB and Hez are town.

I'm going to reread the thread and give my opinion but please do not lynch either.

[Oversoul]

BTW, I will post my rough reads at this point in the game, in my favourite "one of" format that I used in Paranoia Mafia.

Uhh...

Why did you mention that specifically?

Hez, please answer this.

Also, in your opinion, would you say you play games in a similar manner?

Right now I think the following people are town:

Hezlucky (confident)
BBmolla (confident)
Peabody (very confident)
Nisani (slightly confident)
Agar ( fairly confident)

People of suspicion:
Oman (slightly suspicious)
Argula (slightly suspicious)
CommonMan (suspicious)

Scum:
Kondi (confident)

I feel like Kondi is the way to go for a lynch today.

BBmolla plays a vastly different scum game in my opinion where he is far more detached and not caring. His scumplay is much less aggressive and aims to appease rather than displease. He tries not to step on people's toes and generally is among the other townies.

BBmolla here is different from what I have seen as scum and reminds me of the strong individual play like from Paranoia Mafia where he campaigned a speedlynch in order to catch the Mafia off guard.

Hezlucky is playing almost identical to way he played in Paranoia Mafia. I have no examples of his scumplay since I don't think he has flipped as scum in any game since he returned (Hez correct this if i am wrong). He plays the overtly aggressive townie that calls the mafia from a few votes and a few hops. Generally he is fairly accurate with his assumptions, but given his playstyle he has trouble convincing others of joining him on a wagon.

Nisani I just cannot see as mafia. His play is suspicious I will give you all of that but the comments that he is making are upfront about everything he feels. He doesn't notice the scumminess of his own words and yet he has played 12 games. The only reason I feel that would happen is if he is legitimately town and doesn't understand why he is under pressure.

Agar is scumhunting. I like his push against Argula and I think Argula is a good person to target because their play is suspicious. I really don't know how to describe it other than "off". Certain aspects about Argula remind me of Nisani however which makes me hesitant to place a vote on him, at least not until there is more information.

CommonMan is suspicious as well because his posts all look completely contrived. I don't know if he is trying to role play or what but his posts don't look natural. They all are forced and the tone given off by them is unsettling. He is one to watch.

Oman is another person to watch as I feel he is much more prevalent and he should be since he is one of the older players here.

Kondi is scum because despite a large volume of posts, none of them are really filled with any sort of substance. He originally pinged my scumdar when he addressed Oman and I still can't quite figure out why I don't like that post so much other than the fact that it is smarmy and trying to deflect onto another person (Moneybags) who he just defended and advocated as a vig shot. At first I thought it was an attempt against Moneybags, but it could also be an attempt at Oman. However, he never really pursues that train of thought like I thought he would despite his suspicions.

His votes have been opportunistic and go back and forth between the largest wagons at the time.

He places these votes during high traffic and without reasoning most likely in order to draw less attention to himself and slide onto the wagon.

He isn't scumhunting is probably the best description that I can come up with. He is content with doing nothing while the town does something, evidenced by his votes.

Jury is still out on Moneybags and Tajun.

VOTE: Kondi

[Oversoul]

Kondi pretty much needs to die immediately

[Oversoul]

I am pretty sure I already have with my vote + the justification of the vote in the very same post...

Plus I don't like any of the other candidates for lynches.

[Oversoul]

Everyone should either be commenting on Kondi's play or voting him.

Preferably both.

[Oversoul]

Nisani is a terrible lynch choice, and Kondi should just be vigged because I half-believe he's just being a VI right now.

I'd much rather use our lynch (you know, that fairly limited and highly valuable tool we have against scum - the only guarantee) on someone I'm highly confident is going to flip scum.

Points for Agar scum if Kondi is scum

[Oversoul]

The resistance to the Kondi lynch makes me want it more.

[Oversoul]

No other comments?

Confirm vote: Kondi

[Oversoul]

kondi wagon blows.

What's wrong with it?

kondi replacing out is probably null, unless someone has meta on him regarding his replace-outs in the past. Doesn't change my opinion of his slot.

Unfortunately, it is usually town

Good vs Evil
Mob Money

[Oversoul]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Argula

I am pretty sure Kondi likes playing as scum and would take the chance to stay in a game rather than replace out :\

pedit:

True

[Oversoul]

Regardless, I don't want to lynch a slot that cannot claim.

Hez, if he did that, that is horrible sportsmanship and grounds for blacklisting from several people.

Kondi has morals

[Oversoul]

Hez, what is your opinion of Argula?

[Oversoul]

We'll see how his replacement handles the game, but until then help pressure Agurla.

[Oversoul]

By the time the replacement is found the momentum will be lost unless TE has found someone already.

I don't want to run the risk of lynching a PR while no one occupies that slot.

[Oversoul]

You think Kondi would replace out as a PR?

No.

Potentially yes.

Kdub, what was wrong with the games I mentioned? They are both over.

[Oversoul]

He does that all the time.

He is a serial flaker.

The nice way to catch his scum ass, though, is to see which games he *doesn't* replace out of.

[Oversoul]

Like, I am being entirely serious.

Common Man, you have been viewing this forum for 45 minutes or so.

Say something.

It's freakin' me out, maaann.

[Oversoul]

(so is Hez)

Clarify this last statement please, Arugula.

I'll answer everything once you've done so.

[Oversoul]

My preferred lynch candidates, in order of desireability, are hez, arugula, and kondi.

When was this order established?

Would you say you are utility player, meaning you will make sure a lynch happens even if you don't completely agree with it?

[Oversoul]

I feel that is like his town play.

There are things that he has done that have raised my eyebrows, but yes I do believe he is town.

[Oversoul]

Fuck it.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nisani

If he was scum going down it would have been a different claim to bring out a claim from someone else.

Nisani has been survivalistic all game. I put that down as townie, but no one else is going to die. Plus Nisani's flip will give me information on others in the game.

[Oversoul]

Please vote Nisani now.

[Oversoul]

I'm noting that Oversoul jumped off two L-1 wagons. Oversoul, is the only reason you jumped off Arugula due to his claim? And do you think Nisani is scum or are you voting for his flip? Your vote was unclear.

Unvoted Argula for his claim yes. Voted Nisani for the fact that Nisani has been following the main wagons is really starting to make me paranoid.

And I would have it noted that I never made the other wagon claim, and now I am back on that wagon.

[Oversoul]

Nisani is L-2

[Oversoul]

Common man is likely town for his paranoia that someone would "steal" the opinions about me.

Common man, do you read other games on this site a lot? Caveat to the first, are you an alt?

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Nisani

Kdub is also suspect and deserves to die at some point as well

[Oversoul]

Dear Mafia, Kill Hez tonight.

VOTE: Oversoul

Just when I thought you had maybe possibly redeemed yourself, you go and do #549.

That's cool.

You're a tunnel minded player who can't get out of his own way to realize when someone is town.

My evidence?

Argula.

You've lost your voting privileges.

We're lynching Nisani.

Kdub, I'll get back to you tomorrow, but all you have done is try to undermine other people's opinions without ever really giving your own.

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul: How many times are you going to do a 180? What happened to your opinion #186 where didn’t really think Nisani was scum and felt the wagon happened way too quickly?

I changed my mind?

I chalked up his early play to being a newbie and yes I admit, too scummy to be scum. When he didn't stop playing that way after I made mention of this fact and continued to play like a survivor I revoted him.

This also came when Arugula claimed and I believed his claim.

Why didn't you make this comment instead of hammering? We had an extra day or so, but you felt the need to hammer and now you're bringing up old stuff like this?

Seriously, Oversoul comes back to the same wagon he jumped off of yesterday to pile on the Arugula lynch, but I'm losing voting privileges. How is that a town mindset at all? And now Hez abandons ship on that same wagon because "Town would at least be hesitant." When he was SO GUNG HO yesterday about Nisani-scum, and how every wagon was a counter-wagon so he felt good about them.

Oversoul gets rope today. Definitely more confident in that one, but Hez looks really really bad.

You need to play more games because I think you've been out of practice for too long.

I gave sufficient reasoning when I did these actions and of course I am going to go for Nisani since no one fucking listened to me that if Arugula was scum he would have claimed a god damn power role to live.

But no.

I'M THE SCUM.



Vote Nisani and I'll allow you to pursue me for however long you want, even to my grave. Until then, you're just spewing babble.

Kdub, sorry I haven't responded in full to you yet, but why are you only concerned with the part of my post that states you aren't giving your own opinions? Subconscious agreement with my other assertion and thus no response?

I have proof but I am doing Father's Day things so it will have to wait until this afternoon.

[Oversoul]

Timeater, update the player list. Mallard is BBmolla.

Kdub, I'll get back to you tomorrow, but all you have done is try to undermine other people's opinions without ever really giving your own.

Explain please. My stances on Nisani/Arugula were quite clear yesterday, so I don't know where you get that I'm not giving opinions.

I hadn't given this much thought when I first read, but now, after thinking about the statements, it is complete crap.

I never said that you weren't giving opinions, I am saying the opinions you did present do not look honest or genuine. Your comments and opinions were listless rehashes of what others had already said. The game was moving on without you and you felt the need to say something so it wouldn't look worse in hindsight.

I'm going to take your word for it and look at your "clear" stances on the Nisani and Arugula wagon. But I am also going to look at the context of the statements.

Let's take a look at your first post.

Nisani wagon is meh. I agree that his early play was very tentative and he wasn't doing much, but his reactions to pressure strike me as a legitimate newb-town response. I would have expected newb-scum to react by trying to change up their play, but his frustration and attacks on people on his wagon look genuine to me.

Your solid and clear opinion of Nisani. The fact that he is a newb and therefore should be let off the hook for his generally suspicious play earlier on.

I did say the same thing and I will freely admit that I was a large proponent of why the Nisani wagon largely died in the first place. I gave him a second chance to see if he would change his play and stop doing the things we were accusing him. His play after the "second chance"? Didn't change. He didn't stop being scummy and that is why he has to die.

These are the type of comments and reads that I mean when you never really gave your own opinion Kdub. This opinion is not original. I said the same thing, Agar said the same thing, and Arugula said the same thing.

If Nisani is town, Oversoul is very likely town as well for unvoting Nisani from L-1 at the point that he did. Scum would have stayed on board to at least force a claim there.

How come there is no mention of what you will think if Nisani or I flip scum? Are you saving that for later?

Slight town reads on Peabody and Oman, slight scum reads on Common Man and Arugula. Reads are mostly based on gut feelings. Everyone else is neutral at the moment.

This looks fucking familiar with the vote on Kondi.

Hezlucky (confident)
BBmolla (confident)
Peabody (very confident)
Nisani (slightly confident)
Agar ( fairly confident)

People of suspicion:
Oman (slightly suspicious)
Argula (slightly suspicious)
CommonMan (suspicious)

Scum:
Kondi (confident)

Wow.

I didn't expect someone would have this similar of a thought process.

This reads to me as "I'm going to stop arguing because it's drawing attention to myself".

Who are your other suspects besides Nisani?

You voted Kondi to then... push virtually no pressure and instead are fixated on Arugula. Why is that? There is a disconnect here with who you are voting and who you are pushing.

I can understand if you were applying pressure to both of them at the same time, but this is clearly one sided.

kondi replacing out is probably null, unless someone has meta on him regarding his replace-outs in the past. Doesn't change my opinion of his slot.

Here is the first bit of the undermining assertion that you ignored for whatever reason.

Kondi replaces out and you immediately go on the offensive saying that this habit is null on the same page Kondi says he replaced out of another game.

That is undermining.

Hez, do you have example games where he has done this as scum?

Going to keep my vote on kondi at the moment, but I'd go for an Arugula lynch if it came down to that.

A two part post.

You ask Hez for examples of where Kondi has replaced out as scum, to most likely continue to vote the slot without fear of "he is probably town guys, he did this in game x as town so it is null" but then you keep your escape hatch open with WD-40 saying Arugula is also a suitable candidate despite only making 3 posts toward him.

and Arugula. Reads are mostly based on gut feelings.

Going off this clearly defined opinion

and

I don't like the way you were pushing the Nisani wagon. It reads like scum trying to push an "easy" lynch. Who are your other suspects besides Nisani?

Also of note.

At this point when Arugula answers his question, he doesn't pursue that line of thought any further.

The above quotes, plus the apparent kondi replace-out meta evidence provided by Oversoul (and lack of counter-evidence) leads me to
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Arugula
L-1

Elmo's slot is not cleared, but that slot moves below Arugula on my list of preferred lynches.

In what world are you opinions clear? You are leaving a lot of holes to fill with whatever *we* happen to think *you* are thinking.

You first said a gut read on Arugula but now it is based on those two specific quotes and utility with an Elmo lowering of scumminess?

Not to mention you bring up the fact that Elmo's slot is still possibly scum, furthering my thesis that you are undermining.

What about those two quotes were bad?

Arugula brings up a legitimate point about Agar, who had said Hez deserved to die earlier in the thread and came to a different conclusion for both of them when they both did the same thing.

If this doesn't read as scum-play to anyone off his wagon, I severely doubt you have the mental capacity to actually find scum at this point in time. Seriously, this is like a god damned silver-platter.

\nln/

A VT claim is null. If you were right, then scum would never claim VT, when in fact they do.

I never got a real chance to address this when you made this comment, but this is again undermining. Preferring to put a potential lynch candidate in the do or die zone and dispelling anyone's belief of the opposite by trying to provide "opposite" beliefs. Much like how you tried to convince the town that Elmo wasn't "confirmed" as likely town and still was possibly scum.

Scum do fakeclaim VT. I realize that. However, D1, scum? How many times have you seen that specific scenario with a scum claim VT? This is an attempt at undermining something that could have "cleared" Arugula.

I'm flipping the burden of proof now, Kdub. It is up to *you* to provide the examples of scum D1, claiming VT.

I am sure if any they will be hard to find.

So what? The counterwagon on Nisani came after Arugula was at L-1 and claimed VT. There's a huge difference between that and any "counterwagon" to Nisani that happened earlier in the game.

Look at the diction here. Kdub's reference for the "So what?" comment is Hez's statement that he made the Nisani counterwagon happen after the Arugula claim. That is a subtle "doesn't matter" type comment at Hez for looking town. There is a difference between Arugula being a counterwagon and then people returning to a popular suspect close to deadline. You make it sound as if there isn't, trying to hold onto the Arugula wagon as long as possible and get someone to lynch.

How is this town? If anything, scum would be the ones worried about losing town credit for something.

More undermining.

[Oversoul]

Seriously, Oversoul comes back to the same wagon he jumped off of yesterday to pile on the Arugula lynch, but I'm losing voting privileges.

I think you are misunderstanding why you are losing voting privileges at least from my perspective. I have no idea about Hez's reasoning for that comment.

You are losing your voting privileges because of the vigor you lead that Arugula lynch and the comments you made about it.

You were SO SURE and even insulted everyone else who wasn't on the wagon that Arugula was scum.

Then you go and try to use this same "confidence" to get me lynched.

That isn't fucking happening, buddy. You don't get to say the things you said about Arugula being scum and then expect to have others respect you.

[Oversoul]

More importantly, why is this scummy? Am I not allowed to disagree with people on those points?

Of course you are allowed to disagree, but the fact that you are disagreeing about things like that are what makes me feel bad about your slot.

You have this really passive way to disagree with people and it comes off as underhanded.

And if my opinion genuinely happens to be the same as someone else's opinion? Why is it my opinion on Nisani that is not my own, yet you, Agar, and Arugula said the same thing and their opinions are their own?

God. You're just like Llmarble as scum aren't you? Trying to make me convince you that you are scum.

Screw that.

1) I know I am town
2) I know Arugula is town
3) Agar is the person who pushed very hard against Arugula and I find to be very likely town

Those are all just the people who posted the page before you posted your own reads.

You don't even try to see the fact that some of your reads could be taken from others from the sheer fact that you replaced into the game. People would realize that rereading automatically makes it more likely reads are going to be similar, especially for a replacement. You try to foist it off as your own original opinion that just happens to be the same as someone else's opinion.

With kondi's replacement, it was unlikely he was going to be lynched, plus he wasn't around to respond to the case on him. Also, the meta provided (was it by you?) that he replaces out as town and not as scum (and lack of counterexamples to this meta) was evidence in his favor.

Pretty sure I just caught you in a lie.

Kondi didn't replace out until AFTER you had posted those two things. In fact he had made posts between your original vote on him and your two posts towards Arugula, but you made no comment towards him. He then replaced out and you never addressed that slot again, mainly concerned with the meta behind it.

Also, "there is a disconnect here with who you are voting and who you are pushing"...who are you voting for at the moment?

There you go, twisting my words and my actions to make them fit your undermining scheme.

I have already made my points against Nisani. I am *responding* to you and finally giving the information that I alluded to in an earlier post this Day. There is a distinct difference and you know it.

Cheeky move there, Kdub.

two of whom claimed VT (1219 and 1267)

You didn't have games readily on hand from your own experiences? Which is where I would normally assume you came up with such an opinion?

1219 is the only game you have provided evidence for this claim, and 1 game, a pattern does not make. I'll give you that as "evidence" despite the fact that two scums planned to claim VT for a gambit which ultimately backfired.

1267 the scum claimed nurse. That isn't a vanilla townie.

Oversoul, what is your opinion of Common Man? You've barely commented on him at all, except to upgrade him from a scum read to a town read for a very weak reason (which you subsequently called me out for "undermining" you without actually addressing my point when I disagreed with that reason). Given his stance on Arugula yesterday, do you still have him as a town read?

I honestly don't know. If I had the ability to kill him by either being a vig or an SK I would have shot him last night simply because his posts are too much talking and very little action in my opinion.

I don't think he ever really made a stance on Arugula... He voted him and then when going to list Arugula as scum went to dinner (conveniently) and then never really made a response... unless I am missing something.

When he made that comment I felt he was town as he was very open about it and I see no reason that he would need to be like that as scum when everyone was being fairly lurky.

[Oversoul]

I am here post tonight promise sorry

[Oversoul]

I seriously do not have the motivation to do this right now, lol.

Kdub's responses to my questions and pointing out Common Man's play has made consider switching to him because this Nisani wagon is never going to happen.

Vig, if you do exist, please don't listen to Agar. Shoot Nisani.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, what is wrong with what I said about Common Man? It seems like you've already made up your mind about me no matter what I say, but some reasoning I can respond to would be nice.

No, that was my fault.

I was agreeing with you, that his response was worse than your response. I used the ambiguous him to describe Common Man, which is again, my fault.

I'll finally be answering your questions today, though. I have time + motivation. Both of which were in short supply the last week or two...

[Oversoul]

I agree with your second sentence, but again, why is it scummy for my opinion to be similar? Saying I "try to foist it off as your own original opinion" is a bit of a misrep. I gave my opinions as my own opinions, and that's it. Whether they were similar to others' or not has no bearing on those, and it seems like you're trying to paint this as me trying to claim that my opinions are somehow unique or special.

I've been thinking, although relatively little, about your responses. Each time I would come back to this game I get a massive feeling of self loathing for going after you.

I have honestly lost track of this game and I cannot see it leading anywhere good. Your response has left me feeling bad about my own scumhunting skills because now I feel like you are town.

However, I will give you the responses you wanted.

My original problem with your opinions and your votes was the fact that they all seemed like regurgitations of what others had already said. In your reread, you made no mention of the fact that you could be influenced by the fact that you are rereading, or the fact that others had made reads list. You just presented your reads as your own. It is most likely a playstyle difference, but I try to be as open as I possibly can about my reads that way people won't have questions about it. Or if they disagree, it can be a point by point basis.

Your reads didn't look honest.

If you think I'm scum, what is the scum motivation behind not pressuring kondi (as you imply I am doing) while voting him? Do you think I am scum with the kondi slot?

If you had a problem with his playstyle up to that point, you would have been pressuring him to answer you. You play an active, but restrained, backrow game and it comes off as disingenuous.

The scum motivation behind not pressuring kondi is to have a place to keep your vote without doing anything. Scum don't have anyone to scumhunt and so votes that do not look like scumhunting or show any effort of scumhunting will draw my attention. You left your vote on Kondi and then never did anything with it. He replaced out so you hopped ship. That looks scummy in my opinion.

It looks like activity, but isn't really furthering the game.

No because I think the Kondi slot is town?

The reason it is so hard to find these games is that it's quite rare for scum to be lynched on D1 in the first place, as evidenced by the fact that I only found six out of however many there were going back to Mini 1200.

I concede your point here, but when you had made that assertion it sounded like there was sufficient evidence to prove that it was a pattern, rather than evidence to disprove a hypothesis.

Those are two different things in my opinion and I still don't really agree with your premise.

So between him and me, who do you think had a better reason to be on the Arugula wagon? I'm just trying to see where you stand here, because to me, he had by far the weakest reason of anyone on the wagon.

You did (see my comments at the top of the post).

[Oversoul]

Oversoul has been playing very tentatively this game. He jumped off two wagons and is now backing off of kdub. The way he is posting leaves me to believe he really does mean what he says he means. It seems this game, his style has been to tunnel and then to clear the person he tunneled or to seriously doubt himself. Based on the little meta I've read of him, this looks like it's consistent with his playstyle as town.

What games are you using as reference for this assertion, by the way?

Timeater, you might as well replace Oman. He isn't going to join us anytime soon and his (lack of) presence is hurting this game. I know, one to talk, but at least I commit to things I can finish.

I don't even know where the majority of people stand in this game.

That said, please kill Nisani.

VOTE: Nisani

[Oversoul]

I believe Elmo's story about being busy with work...

I'll be voting Elmo within 24 hours, so if this is L-1, please claim.

[Oversoul]

Yes, this is mostly just to see what happens, but due to General Rules I cannot explain another reason why I am suspicious of Elmo.

[Oversoul]

Also, Myko I am opposed to a massclaim. I don't know why I didn't say that ealier, before Elmo claimed >_>

Role is too weird to be scum.

Vote Nisani everyone

[Oversoul]

What, Elmo? That isn't what I meant lol

[Oversoul]

it's compulsive. That changes things oversoul.

I'm fine with this lynch.

How? Forcing scum to do thing.... is not normal meta. Although this is Time we are talking about and he is if anything unorthodox.

[Oversoul]

I would much prefer Oversoul dead with his whole "Welp BACK TO NISANI TROLOLOL" post than anyone else at this point.

VOTE: Oversoul

When I flip town I really hope someone drowns you in a vat of humble pie filling

That is some serious Mod Meta'ing myko and I don't know if I am ready to jump off the deep end for that

[Oversoul]

EVERYONE SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER AND VOTE IN UNISON ON SOMEONE

NO lynching is NOT the way to go

[Oversoul]

I can already tell this is going to end in a no lynch

Fuck you guys

[Oversoul]

vote: ant

God damn you guys

[Oversoul]

Fuck you Oman

Fuck you Agar

We are fucking lynching one of them today they have done nothing but stall the SHIT out of this game

[Oversoul]

I was not neighbor iced.

emergency VLA for the next two days

Sorry guys

[Oversoul]

I am going to post in this

but I just wanted to say

I hate this game

I hate the majority of the players in this game (by majority I mean Oman and Agar, seriously though, you guys suck)

I REALLY just want to lose this game because I can't be fucked to even try to salvage it after lynching Ant (like seriously what the fuck?)

I have an opinion about something, but I need to time to formulate it correctly. Give me

cyanide pills

20 minutes

[Oversoul]

Ok a few things I just want to say as a whole about the moderation thing

Tim, I love you, but bro, you gotta be more on top of things. By that I mean more votecounts more often, timely replacements, maybe even a few more activity prods, and so forth.

And please don't use that godawful code color scheme. I hate looking at counts because the colors are so hard to differentiate. Seriously. Though if you take anything away from this, it is 1) better vote count color scheme, 2) more vote counts.

Although I am not even sure this game needs more vote counts looking at the overall activity, I am just paranoid certain actions were missed because of the frequency.

Now about the game

Oman and Agar, if you are scum, I don't even want to deal with you and this is one of those times where I wish I was a vig of sorts so I could just fucking shoot people. It's a stress reliever and a lot of people in this game really needed to be shot. Like through the forehead. Execution. Never coming back from the grave style.

Oman and Agar are two of those people, just because I don't like their playstyle.

If you guys are scum, well, I guess I can't be *too* mad at you. You played your cards well enough to ride it out, not that you needed much help.

Nisani, dude, you would have been the first person to die. If I was a multishot vig, I would have used them all on you just to make sure you died and didn't scurry out from under my cup that I trapped you. Damn roach.

But ya, you're fucking dieing.

Want to know why?

WELL here it goes.

Playerlist:

These people are alive:

Oversoul
HezLucky
AGar

kondi2424

Elmo Teh Azn

Moneybags

kdub
Peabody
Oman
Nisani201

---

When Hezlucky placed his vote on Kdub these people posted before Hez unvoted

Kdub
Oman
Peabody
Hezlucky
Elmo
Agar

These people did not post

Oversoul
Nisani

Therefore I can make some logical assumptions, and please, anyone, step in if there is an error in my logic.

I am going under the assumption that this game was 9:3

Therefore, today is LyLo with 5:3

Hezlucky made a vote on presumably a townie, meaning the scum only needed to be on at the same time in order to win. However, such a quicklynch did not occur. Why? There are multiple possibilities. The first possibility is that the third scum was not online, and did not post as such in the time between the vote and the unvote. Meaning that either Oversoul or Nisani is scum. Since I know for a fact that Oversoul is not scum, Nisani must also be scum.

In addition, this also assumes that Hezlucky is scum or else Kdub would have been lynched IMMEDIATELY.

However, there is still more speculation.

If Kdub is the scum, that means Hezlucky is town and that Nisani still has the chance to be town. I think this possibility is unlikely. While I don't *like* Kdub's play so far I don't really think he is town and his reaction to Hez looks genuine enough.

Hez's actions are typical of Hez, for when he has power. He only makes these bold statements when he has information and knows things. Hez's actions here don't really imply that he has power or information, other than the fact that he wanted a quick lynch.

In conclusion, so far, today means 1 thing.

I hate this game.

In conclusion, the people likely to be scum are

Hez
Nisani
Peabody/Agar

In conclusion, I don't know what to fucking do.

[Oversoul]

However, throw ALL of that if this game is anything but 9:3 (please god let this be so).

[Oversoul]

Since it's probably lylo, I'm for a mass claim before my vote goes out.

Peabody, were you going to vote for Kdub when Hez voted? Be honest, because it doesn't automatically implicate you if you answer yes.

[Oversoul]

I give up

VOTE: Nisani

I don't understand why this wasn't your out of gate vote, Hez. I would like an explanation.

[Oversoul]

The Ant lynch never should have happened. Hez, are you kidding me right now?

Kdub, are you seriously moving towards that speculation?

Agar, fine. I'll accept that I could have done something (replacing out) if you at least except that your play here has not been good. The tunneling was pitiful and annoying.

Nisani, you aren't sure which one it is yet because not enough people voiced an opinion you could leech? I mean, you would know you are town right?

[Oversoul]

Hez fucking explain your actions.

If we are going to lynch we might as well mad claim.

[Oversoul]

Also, Elmo you are sure that you don't have a QT with anyone?

[Oversoul]

Hez fucking explain your actions.

If we are going to lynch we might as well mass claim.

[Oversoul]

No lynching really accomplishes nothing. We already know the person who is going to die and so that "more" information will be pointless.

[Oversoul]

suicide

Hez it is getting old, fucking vote someone for lynch.

[Oversoul]

Thats hilarious how you complain about me voting everyone, yet everyone else in the game is not only voting no one but sitting on their asses doing nothing.

So that makes it okay?

Have you done any nightkill analysis this game? I remember you from Paranoia being all over that.

[Oversoul]

Waste your WIFOM kills next time I am mafia I am killing obvious people and laughing.

What?

[Oversoul]

Well, some of us won it.

We aren't doing anything yet. I am investigating.

[Oversoul]

It can be useful, depending on how you look at it.

How many games are you in at the moment?

[Oversoul]

VOTE: no lynch

You can wish that Hez, but it isn't going to happen given your playstyle. There was a reason we didn't kill you Paranoia for so long.

[Oversoul]

That was entirely unpredictable.

[Oversoul]

Why Hez in particular Nisani?

[Oversoul]

Nisani, for memory's sake, what were your reads again?

And why don't you start the mass claim, then you can popcorn to Hez.

[Oversoul]

Why am I suddenly the bad guy? Agar, don't give me that shit when I have been trying to get Nisani lynched for 4 DAYS. Also, I never expected for Elmo to live the night. Hence why I wanted to lynch Nisani. Why did you think I expected him to live?

[Oversoul]

Not really seeing as you said you didn't expect him to die... You acknowledge his death, why use that word? Something psychological escaped from the depths of your mind, Agar.

And what exactly is wrong with one person saying "hey you, claim"?

I AM this town. And there are implications of taking a chance to kill someone else other than Elmo.

[Oversoul]

And what if a majority isn't reached? Like every other fucking day with this indecisive town.

TIm, rename this Indecisive Town. A better and more accurate name.

[Oversoul]

I am a baby. Have you noticed this is the most you've posted in an entire day?

Maybe that's why I am acting the way I am. It isn't even about winning anymore. It is about playing. Too many people in this game don't even want to play. And yes that frustrates me.

[Oversoul]

Well since everyone has posted who they would like to claim and surprise surprise there is no clear majority I am going to make a table and then let the

town

Agar choose who claims first.

Players	Requests to Claim
Oversoul	0
Hezlucky	2 (Nisani, Agar)
Agar	0
Kdub	2 (Peabody, Oman)
Peabody	1 (Kdub)
Oman	0
Nisani201	1 (Oversoul)

Since we have a tie I vote Hezlucky to claim first.

[Oversoul]

Actually I lied, Hez didn't post. My bad.

[Oversoul]

Claim Hez.

[Oversoul]

I want Nisani to claim next as well.

[Oversoul]

Of fucking course you are the cop.

Of
Fucking
Course

[Oversoul]

Sane

Does your role specifically say sane?

[Oversoul]

God damn it

I thought was hardcore bussing you this entire time. Although I am interested in why you didn't claim when put to l-1 the first day

I am going to read over VCA when I have a computer

[Oversoul]

Hez* was bussing

[Oversoul]

Peabody next please

[Oversoul]

Obvscum claims cop. Mykonian has no reason to lie. This is hilarious.

Vote: Nisani

Hez, I LIKE you but this is pushing the limit to the point that I *have* to ask you a very serious question.

Are you retarded?

If Mykonian's role works *any* other way then described by the Wiki for Deputy this is a bastard game and would *never* have passed through the Normalcy Review Group. Mykonian said what he said so that he would not be lynched and draw the nightkill.

You are not this stupid and I think you are feigning stupidity in order to look town.

And now all of the sudden I am a suspect to you when the entire game you've been buddying me and going after the same people that I am going after? All because I said I thought you were mega bussing Nisani? Or is this because of his results?

[Oversoul]

Operating under the assumption that everything involved with Nisani is town. I realize this isn't true. I will make a separate VCA with only flipped townies.

1

Elmo

2 votes

[Ant]

[Peabody]
Peabody 2 votes

[Elmo]

[Oversoul]

Oman 1 votes

[AGar]

Nisani201

1 votes [HezLucky]

2

Elmo

3 votes

[Ant]

[Kdub] [Oman]

Nisani201

3 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody]

[Oversoul]

Oversoul

2 votes

[AGar]

[Elmo]

Peabody 1 votes

[Nisani201]

HezLucky 1 votes

[BBmolla]

3

Nisani201

5 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody]

[Oversoul]

[Mykonian]

[Arugula]

HezLucky 3 votes

[BBmolla]

[Oman]

[Ant]

Oversoul

2 votes

[AGar]

[Elmo]

Elmo

2 votes [Kdub]

[Nisani201]

>

Nisani

is L-2!

4

Nisani201

6 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody]

[Oversoul]

[Mykonian]

[Arugula]

[Elmo]

HezLucky 4 votes

[BBmolla]

[Oman]

[Ant]

[Nisani201]

Oversoul

1 votes

[AGar]

Elmo

1 votes [Kdub]

Nisani

is L-1!

5

HezLucky 5 votes [

BBMolla]

[Oman]

[Ant]

[Nisani201]

[Elmo]

Nisani201

4 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody]

[Mykonian]

[Arugula]

Arugula

1 votes

[Agar]

>hez is l-2!

6

Nisani201

5 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody]

[Mykonian]

[Arugula]

[Elmo]

HezLucky 3 votes [Oman]

[Ant]

[Nisani201]

Arugula

1 votes

[Agar]

Elmo

1 votes

[Oversoul]

>

nisani

is L-2

7

Elmo

5 votes

[Oversoul]

[Kdub]

[Nisani201]

[Peabody] [HezLucky]

Nisani201

3 votes

[Mykonian]

[Arugula]

[Elmo]

Arugula

3 votes

[Agar]

[Oman]

[BBMolla]

>

Elmo

is L-2!

8

Arugula

5 votes

[Agar]

[Oman]

[BBMolla]

[Oversoul]

[Nisani201]

Elmo

3 votes [Kdub] [Peabody] [HezLucky]

Nisani201

2 votes

[Arugula]

[Elmo]

>

Arugula

is L-2!

9

Arugula

6 votes

[Agar]

[Oman]

[BBMolla]

[Oversoul]

[Nisani201]

[kdub]

Elmo Teh Azn

2 votes [Peabody] [HezLucky]

Nisani201

2 votes

[Arugula]

[Elmo Teh Azn]

HezLucky 1 votes

[Ant]

>

Arugula

is L-1!

10

Arugula

6 votes

[Agar]

[Oman]

[BBMolla]

[Nisani201]

[kdub]

[Mykonian]

Nisani201

5 votes

[Arugula]

[Elmo Teh Azn]

[Oversoul]

[HezLucky] [Peabody]
HezLucky 1 votes

[Ant]

>

Arugula

is L-1!
>

Nisani

is L-2!

11

Mykonian

2 votes: Kdub,

Ant

Nisani

1 votes:

Oversoul

Oversoul

1 votes:

AGar

AGar

1 votes: HezLucky

Elmo Teh Azn

1 votes: Peabody

12

Mykonian

3 votes:

Ant,

AGar

,

Nisani201

Nisani

1 votes:

Oversoul

Peabody: 1 votes: HezLucky

Elmo Teh Azn

1 votes: Peabody

13

Elmo Teh Azn

5 votes: Peabody,

mykonian

, HezLucky,

AGar

, Kdub

Mykonian

2 votes:

Ant

,

Nisani201

Nisani

1 votes:

Oversoul

14

Mykonian

3 votes:

Ant

,

Nisani201

, kdub

Nisani

3 votes:

Oversoul

, HezLucky, Peabody

Elmo Teh Azn

2 votes: Peabody,

mykonian

Oversoul

2 votes:

AGar

, Oman

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

15

Mykonian

5 votes:

Ant

,

Nisani201

, kdub,

AGar,

Peabody

Nisani

2 votes:

Oversoul

, HezLucky

Elmo Teh Azn

1 votes:

mykonian

Oversoul

1 votes: Oman

Mykonian

is L-1

16

Kdub 1 votes: HezLucky

17

• Nisani
  (L-4) | 1 vote:
  Oversoul
  
  Oman (L-4) | 1 vote:
  HezLucky
  
  
  Not Voting:
  AGar

  ,

  Elmo

  , kdub, Peabody, Oman,

  Nisani

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

18

• Nisani
  (L-4) | 1 vote:
  Oversoul
  
  Oman (L-4) | 1 vote:
  HezLucky
  
  No Lynch (L-4) | 1 vote:
  AGar
  
  
  Not Voting:
  Elmo,

  kdub, Peabody, Oman,

  Nisani

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

19

• No Lynch (Lynch) | 5 votes:
  AGar

  ,

  Elmo

  ,

  Oversoul,

  Oman, Peabody
  
  Oman (L-4) | 1 vote:
  HezLucky
  
  
  Not Voting:
  kdub,

  Nisani

A no-lynch has occured. It is now night 3. Day breaks this time Saturday.

Too tired to do any analysis on this... I'll make the actual confirmeds VCA tomorrow. I will probably spoiler that one or wait until a new page since two of these things on one page is going to be an eye sore.

Way too much green and cursory glance indicates that the town has never been on a major wagon of a scum player which is depressing and makes me feel especially bad since I was on the cop the entire game. That and shitty town of the year can't get its ass into gear.

If we are to believe Nisani and everyone involved is town then we literally have a 3/4 chance of netting a scum in Hez, Kdub, Peabody, and Oman

[Oversoul]

ebwop: this isn't probably true

[Oversoul]

Hez, do you listen to what escapes your mouth?

Nisani, crumbs now.

I was finally starting to come around to the idea that Oman was town and Agar was scum.

*sigh*

I don't even know anymore.

[Oversoul]

Also, Agar and Oman and Tim and anyone else I pissed off or made a remark to, I apologize for my comments.

[Oversoul]

...

...

You are a fucking cop.
You will always be able to get a guilty lynched.

I'll do the VCA with only true confirms later today. Debating on my opinion of Nisani... Will explain when I do the VCA

[Oversoul]

I want Agar to claim next

[Oversoul]

Hez you are so ridiculous.

[Oversoul]

Hez, what happens if that counterclaim never comes?

[Oversoul]

I have a lot of things to say about Nisani's claim

Also, I am pretty sure we have a scum roleblocker

[Oversoul]

1

kondi2424

2 votes

[Ant]

[Peabody]
Peabody 2 votes

[kondi2424]

[Oversoul]
Oman 1 votes [AGar]
Nisani201 1 votes [HezLucky]

2

kondi2424

3 votes

[Ant]

[Kdub] [Oman]
Nisani201 3 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody] [Oversoul]
Oversoul 2 votes [AGar]

[Kondi2424]

Peabody 1 votes [Nisani201]
HezLucky 1 votes

[BBmolla]

3

Nisani201 5 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody] [Oversoul]

[Mykonian]

[Arugula]

HezLucky 3 votes

[BBmolla]

[Oman]

[Ant]

Oversoul 2 votes [AGar]

[Kondi2424]

kondi2424

2 votes [Kdub] [Nisani201]

>Nisani is L-2!

4

Nisani201 6 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody] [Oversoul]

[Mykonian]

[Arugula]

[kondi2424]

HezLucky 4 votes

[BBmolla]

[Oman]

[Ant

[Nisani201]
Oversoul 1 votes [AGar]

kondi2424

1 votes [Kdub]

Nisani is L-1!

5

HezLucky 5 votes

[BBMolla]

[Oman] [

Ant]

[Nisani201]

[kondi242]

Nisani201 4 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody]

[Mykonian] [Arugula]

Arugula 1 votes [Agar]

>hez is l-2!

6

Nisani201 5 votes [HezLucky] [Peabody]

[Mykonian]

[Arugula] [kondi242]

HezLucky 3 votes [Oman]

[Ant]

[Nisani201]
Arugula 1 votes [Agar]

Kondi2424

1 votes [Oversoul]

>nisani is L-2

7

Kondi2424

5 votes [Oversoul] [Kdub] [Nisani201] [Peabody] [HezLucky]
Nisani201 3 votes

[mykonian] [Arugula] [kondi242]

Arugula

3 votes [Agar] [Oman]

[BBMolla]

>

kondi

is L-2!

8

Arugula

5 votes [Agar] [Oman]

[BBMolla]

[Oversoul] [Nisani201]

Kondi2424

3 votes [Kdub] [Peabody] [HezLucky]
Nisani201 2 votes

[Arugula] [kondi242]

>

Arugula

is L-2!

9

Arugula

6 votes [Agar] [Oman]

[BBMolla]

[Oversoul] [Nisani201] [kdub]
Elmo Teh Azn 2 votes [Peabody] [HezLucky]

Nisani201

2 votes

[Arugula] [Elmo Teh Azn]

HezLucky 1 votes

[Ant]

>

Arugula

is L-1!

10

Arugula

6 votes [Agar] [Oman]

[BBMolla]

[Nisani201] [kdub]

[Mykonian]

Nisani201 5 votes

[Arugula] [Elmo Teh Azn]

[Oversoul] [HezLucky] [Peabody]
HezLucky 1 votes [Ant]

>

Arugula

is L-1!
>Nisani is L-2!

11

Mykonian

2 votes: Kdub,

Ant

Nisani 1 votes: Oversoul
Oversoul 1 votes: AGar
AGar 1 votes: HezLucky

Elmo Teh Azn

1 votes: Peabody

12

Mykonian

3 votes:

Ant,

AGar, Nisani201

Nisani

1 votes: Oversoul
Peabody: 1 votes: HezLucky

Elmo Teh Azn

1 votes: Peabody

13

Elmo Teh Azn

5 votes: Peabody,

mykonian

, HezLucky, AGar, Kdub

Mykonian

2 votes:

Ant,

Nisani201
Nisani 1 votes: Oversoul

14

Mykonian

3 votes:

Ant,

Nisani201, kdub
Nisani 3 votes: Oversoul, HezLucky, Peabody

Elmo Teh Azn

2 votes: Peabody,

mykonian

Oversoul 2 votes: AGar, Oman

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

15

Mykonian

5 votes:

Ant

, Nisani201, kdub, AGar, Peabody
Nisani 2 votes: Oversoul, HezLucky

Elmo Teh Azn

1 votes:

mykonian

Oversoul 1 votes: Oman

Mykonian

is L-1

16

Kdub 1 votes: HezLucky

17

• Nisani (L-4) | 1 vote:
  Oversoul
  
  Oman (L-4) | 1 vote:
  HezLucky
  
  
  Not Voting:
  AGar,

  Elmo

  , kdub, Peabody, Oman, Nisani

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

18

• Nisani (L-4) | 1 vote:
  Oversoul
  
  Oman (L-4) | 1 vote:
  HezLucky
  
  No Lynch (L-4) | 1 vote:
  AGar
  
  
  Not Voting:
  Elmo

  , kdub, Peabody, Oman, Nisani

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

19

• No Lynch (Lynch) | 5 votes:
  AGar,

  Elmo

  , Oversoul, Oman, Peabody
  
  Oman (L-4) | 1 vote:
  HezLucky
  
  
  Not Voting:
  kdub, Nisani

A no-lynch has occured. It is now night 3. Day breaks this time Saturday.

20

Much less colorful, much less informative.

When the mass claim is done I will give everyone my opinions.

[Oversoul]

I am a vanilla townie.

Whew. And that seals the deal, anyone claiming Jailkeeper/Doctor/Roleblocker from this point onwards is confirmed scum.

[Oversoul]

I'll give all of my opinions after breakfast. But right now I am kinda scared as to what powers the scum actually has...

They have a Roleblocker

But is that balanced versus a Cop, Deputy, and Compulsive Neighborizer?

I am really expecting a Godfather in addition to that which is why I can't shake my suspicions of Agar because looking at the "all confirmed" scenario" we are seriously a bad town.

[Oversoul]

This game just turned everything on its side.

[Oversoul]

I want people to comment on the possibility of my all confirmed VCA.

----

I believe Nisani's claim for multiple reasons. Nisani has not played Mafia in a long time (he said this) and this game is his first in a while. The fact that there is no counterclaim strengthens his claim immensely. In addition, the fact that Nisani *doesn't* have crumbs strengthens my opinion of his claim even further. If the Mafia had daytalk or were allowed to talk pregame and Nisani asked "What should I do?" he would have laid down breadcrumbs of some sort. The fact that he didn't breadcrumb *at all*, not even trying to "fix" his mistake on D2 shows that Nisani has not been coached or given advice. In addition, looking at his opinions of people after investigating them shows he has some knowledge of the people and while those could be strewn as crumbs, the fact that Nisani did not go to those to imply that he knew I was town or Agar or Elmo before revealing again makes his claim very believable.

Right now I am having a very hard time believing that Agar is town. However, we know that the scum have a roleblocker. As I said earlier I do not understand the balance of this game at all. We have 3 PRs and arguably only 1 whereas the scum seemingly only have a roleblocker. I could understand this as basically being Cop versus Roleblocker and for now I am conceding Agar is town.

Out of the 4 people left that are not confirmed, I had a definitive town read on 1, Kdub, leaning town on another, Oman, and leaning scum on the other two but with caveats for my Hez read. I was in no way expecting for my primary scumtargets to *both* be town and if that isn't a testament to the break that I need to take then I don't know what is.

I am sorry for tunneling on you so hard Nisani and I hope you accept my apology. I am not usually this bad.

While I had a problem with Kdub when he first replaced into this game I think he has proven himself to be town. Oman has done relatively nothing and even now doesn't seem to mind the implications that Nisani's claim does. The same goes for Peabody. Hez's play has been different from his town play in Paranoia Mafia and for much of D1 I thought he was buddying me in order to get on my good side.

Oman, why did you initially vote for me to claim first, yet you decided to popcorn to Hez instead?

Didn't Oman just clarify that?

The fact that it had to end up with these 4 makes my life a living hell and depresses me.

I would like these 4 to each come up with their opinions about the other 3 and list scumreads.

Kdub and Hez are the only ones who think the possibility that Nisani could be lying is just that a possibility which is odd given Peabody and Oman.

[Oversoul]

Nisani you were lurking this forum when I made my post and now you are lurking this forum again. Please comment on something.

I a

[Oversoul]

I have my suspicions already set in place, but Hez's lynch is not the first lynch that I wish to have.

Also, Agar, your vote lacks one thing with logic for the first part, why would it matter if Nisani is 100% cleared when Nisani is most definitely going to die tonight?

[Oversoul]

OMFG

Unvote right now AGar

Right the fuck now

[Oversoul]

I'm not sure exactly what your VCA "confirms". Can you post a summary?

I meant my VCA where I confirmed myself, Nisani, and Agar.

Did you look at the wagons. Highly depressing.

[Oversoul]

Given that I believe the cop claim, then sure, I agree with that conclusion. Was there a goal other than showing what Nisani's claim was already telling us?

Why are you making this so hard? I meant do you have any comments about the voting history of the other three?

[Oversoul]

I will hammer after I hear back from Oversoul.

I am fine with the hammer. Peabody was actually going to be my lynch of choice today.

A little note before this game goes to night and I (possibly) die, Hez has already created an endgame scenario where he brings Agar and what should obviously be Kdub as the the third person but he neglects to mention Kdub by name. Hez just gave the mafia a ridiculous amount of WIFOM surrounding Agar to bring him into LyLo.

Additionally, look at these posts of Moneybags (Kdub's predecessor).

Oh and MB you should sheep me

Who should I vote master?

VOTE: Peabody

Moneybags always does this stuff and is an acceptable Vig target until further notice, but he's null.

Well thanks >.<

I read everything in deeper detail and right now I don't like Peabody, and I don't like Hez even more.
But I'll go with Peabody because that's where the votes are at.

You know what. I totally just changed my mind. Kondi is bugging me way more than Peabody.

VOTE: kondi

Moneybags asks Kondi who he should vote, to which Kondi replies Peabody. Moneybags then votes Peabody entirely off Kondi's command. Then Moneybags says he reads the game and says he doesn't like Peabody because that is where the votes are, but that he also does not like Hez even more but that he will go with Peabody because those are were the votes are.

Moneybags was already voting Peabody and did so at Kondi's request and his only reason for staying on Peabody was because that was were the votes were, not because he was scummier than Hez. He then votes Kondi because he doesn't like his play more than Peabody's now which he had previously just agreed with Kondi about Peabody. A weak excuse to get off a teammate?

[Oversoul]

Also, we wouldn't be in this mess if we just let Nisani claim yesterday. We would have an extra safety buffer once it came down to 3/4 LyLo.

I had an extra secret Kondi tell that basically made him confirmed town in my eyes.

Why would Oman and Agar be playing like that? They were buddy buddy the entire game and tied themselves to each other. I know they are friends, but unless this is some WIFOM trick I don't think scum would do that.

[Oversoul]

Well technically it was Elmo... but same thing.

Hez, it is entirely possible that you are scum and he did acknowledge that dichotomy when he voted you?

[Oversoul]

I will concede your point's Hez and look at it during the night.

I am ready to hammer. Timeater is watching this forum and I kinda just want to see red on the front page.

[Oversoul]

Taking the plunge, Tim.

VOTE: Peabody

GF RB Goon vs Deputy Cop and Neighborizer doesn't really seem balanced but...

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Oman

Why would Elmo have no neighborizers? Was he not confirmed whether or not someone was invited?

[Oversoul]

UNVOTE:

What did you want to explain, Hez?

[Oversoul]

I'm ready Hez, but I'll wait until after Kdub.

[Oversoul]

There really was no need for you to unvote Kdub.

[Oversoul]

I'm on my phone right now but I want to say a few things. This won't be all I have to say though so don't proceed until I give the okay.

Hez, are you creating a trust tell? Or a single game agreement in that you "owe" Elmo?

I understand that you both are friends, but there is also 2 people in addition to you (as scum hypothetically) that would override your decision. While it is true that you didn't want to kill Elmo your teammates could have.

I am going to look over Elmo's posts to verify the fact that he was in agreement with you. I as scum would not have killed Elmo, but that is besides the point.

I am also going to

interrogate

ask Tim some questions.

[Oversoul]

It is because I didn't realize you and Elmo were friends.

[Oversoul]

Ebwop: it is surprising

[Oversoul]

There is no fucking way I would nightkill Elmo, or allow him to be nightkilled by my mafia team

Not after that game. He kept me alive in it and was actually nice to me when others were calling for my head every page. I do feel as if I owe him for that. I am certainly not a bastard enough to let him last, what, two days? and then nightkill him after he has decided to replace into a game only to play with me (Awwwwwwww....)

You say that as an honor to Elmo and that he is your friend, which is why I asked you about the trust tell. It would have been nice to have this effort earlier in the game Hez.

Elmo would have been on my side no matter what. Why would I intentionally handicap myself just for some WIFOM? This whole concept of WIFOM is going to come up a lot in the next two posts. I hope you're ready

While this part is mostly true given Elmo's actions throughout the game, there are a few points that refute Elmo would have been unequivocally at your side Hez. First, he chose to target Knox N1 instead of you based on perceived pressure from the town. I don't want to undermine your friendship, but that doesn't seem like someone who would always be there for you, especially if he gets scared of what the town will think.

Next, Elmo calls you town for most of his short life, but right before his death, he lists a bunch of reads in which he places you as "fuck if I know" meaning he *could* be swayed to go either way on your alignment. Just as you were when he replaced into the game.

So. I'll post come actual content later. Short list
Hez - fuck if I know

Oversoul, Peabody - town.

Nissani - obv scum. The ant lynch was complete shot.

Oman - null-town

Kdub - nul

Playing the game honorably trumps friendship and alliances, Hez. I see the logic behind "I wouldn't kill Elmo because he would always be with me" but that clearly wasn't the case in the game when he had reservations about you.

Regardless, Elmo wasn't killed because of his reads. He was killed because he was a PR and going to be confirmed as such if he didn't die that night.

I think the whole Elmo situation was handled poorly by the scum as I would not have wasted a roleblock on him when his power was relatively useless, but I thank them for that.

Hez, my reservations about your alignment are that you took my advice that I gave to you at the end of Paranoia Mafia (be more concise and persistent with your accusations/reads) but you apparently have not displayed any knowledge of that advice in this game. And now you are showing a disproportionate amount of effort by overflowing the game with examples of your scum meta and your town meta especially since you have proclaimed that you follow no specific meta.

Not to mention the awkward buddying I felt from you at the beginning of this game.

Kdub, I find it unlikely to be another PR aside from potentially a Godfather.

You may proceed.

[Oversoul]

I could see Godfather in Goon Godfather JoAT, but realistically no other iteration.

[Oversoul]

I generally don't like the lack of comments from both Agar and Oman, but they have been doing this all game anyway. Although I reread your post yesterday, could quickly explain again why Oman is confirmed scum from Agar's point of view?

[Oversoul]

Ready for thing 2

[Oversoul]

So many words...

I'll get to this tonight.

[Oversoul]

Hez's primary defense is "well I wouldn't have killed Elmo" and "I would have voted Oman already."

I call bullshit.

And what is your defense?

[Oversoul]

The innocent result on me.

Try not to be so predictable, Agar.

Play wise, what is your defense?

[Oversoul]

#1: Please explain his confidence level at the moment. Please explain where you think it should be.

I don't really understand the point of this question Hez, but I will try to makes ends of it. Are you saying that Agar as town should be very happy seeing as he would be confirmed town? His play does leave a lot to be desired and even now he is barely contributing anything and any town that thinks a scumbag (in this case you Hez) is setting him up for a LyLo lynch would be certainly more vocal than the one liners he is giving me. As town I would expect a lot more activity and vitriol from Agar. I consider Agar a good player and I know I am not alone in this assumption. His apathy is killing this town and sinking my "confirmed town" read I had.

#2 - Please comment on the interaction this game between Agar and Peabody/Oman. [aka. the dead, flipped scum and the soon-to-be dead, flipped scum]

I have noticed Agar and Oman's buddy buddy interaction and at first I thought this was a friend from outside Mafia (Oman has lots of friends "outside" the Mafia playing forums) and that was why the sheeping and the defensive was occuring. Then I thought it was one scum tying himself to another in hopes of getting a mislynch after death and further clouding the pools. Agar's lack of comment on Peabody while Peabody actively tries to get something from Agar. Although it does look like an exaggeration from you Hez, Peabody does have interactions and admittedly Agar has less interaction, there are still some. My opinion is that Peabody's questions toward Agar about the Arugula wagon are disingenuous and look designed to try and give Agar some more town credit due to his case. In addition, he at first says he dislikes Agar's reasoning for voting Arugula but then later agrees with the push against Arugula that Agar has posted when the logic was largely the same. Almost as if Peabody needed a reason to go along with Agar at that point (to secure an Arugula mislynch).

#3 - Please comment on, if you were scum with Oman and Peabody, what you perceive the likelihood of Nisani voting for town-Hez at LyLo would be

I don't understand this question. Oman never voted you and he was pretty set on Peabody and no one else really offered an explanation to vote for you unlike the explanations used to vote for Peabody.

Unless you mean they were banking on Nisani voting you out of the gate then I would say a low, but substantial percentage like 30%. Then again, I don't know where you are going with this...

As to your "perfect scum game" if that is true, then their play is sloppy and I have a hard time believing what you are saying. Look at what happened to Tierce in Paranoia, she got sloppy once she saw the victory so close and it cost her her life. Fortunately given game mechanics and everything, that did not matter.

I'd also like to point out that never once did Oman *actually* vote you on that LyLo day.

And it's possible this is what I am doing. And I can't wait till thing of note #3.

Okay?

I hope so to because you haven't really disproven this point.

#4 - Please comment on which scenario (below) is more LIKELY

DOOR #1 - Mafia are going for a quick win. All three vote me in succession, because they are confident that
a) town cannot get enough support for a counterwagon they will agree on
b) Nisani-noob will vote me out of emotion.

The remaining mafia in this game (Agar) has led bandwagons only on town, has called one of his mafia partners town and has ignored the other.

Hez (town) has been attacked by all three mafia furiously since and including the LyLo day (SEE LEMMA 27 -- MAFIA WERE GOING FOR A PERFECT WIN), even when Hez points out to some of the mafia that other mafia are confirmed mafia.

This scenario has a mafia godfather.

I'd like to point you to one of the two most frustrating games I have ever played...

Slaxx's Flame Warriors Mafia. In this game Regfan, a very reputable and well respected player essentially had the same interactions with scum that Agar has. His interactions were too incriminating for him to be left alive and as such, we had to lynch him despite his best intentions leading to a LyLo with a Late Miller Claim that resulted in a Mafia win because fucking retards. Anyways, I digress. Just because those interactions exist does not mean Agar is 100% Confirmed Without a Doubt Mutant Commie Scum and the same applies to you, but I have already pointed out the fact that Oman never actually voted you.

This is you also falsely applying that Kdub is confirmed town from your POV for *not* hammering you when he never actually had the chance.

DOOR #2 - Hez told his buddies to bus him for town credibility. At that point, Hez (to screw with the town by WIFOM because ZOMG WHY WOULD HE DO THAT) decided to turn it around and bus both of his mafia buddies in succession for towncred, despite Hez CLEARING everyone except two people, both of whom the dead cop got an innocent investigation on (Everyone but myself, Agar and Oversoul are clear at LyLo) - not optimal, but HEZ IS FUCKING WITH THE TOWN WITH WIFOM so thats okay.

Peabody buddies his scumbuddy Hez all of day 1, then Hez tells him to bus him for the rest of the game as a distancing tactic.
Hez has told Oman that Oman needs to spend the entire game discrediting Hez, then vote him until either Hez or Oman dies.

In this scenario, fuck Lemma 27 - mafia aren't going for a perfect win. Hez is going to do this shit the long and convoluted way under mountains of WIFOM, because he's crazy.

This scenario may or may not have a godfather in it.

Both seem entirely possible and it is something I wouldn't put past you considering your craziness Hez. Although I don't understand you "clearing everyone except the two innocents from the cops".

Haven't you already cleared me by virtue of the one or the other Godfather fact if it exists?

[Oversoul]

Thing 3 can go. I'll respond to your responses in an hour

[Oversoul]

I don't know what he was doing Hez but I can see how you would think that

[Oversoul]

Thing 3 can go. I'll respond to your responses in an hour

I'll wait for this.

Especially a response to my DEFCON comment.

I am here now if you want to start typing up your point #3 (but you probably have it already typed up from the way you talked about the other two points)

[Oversoul]

Thing 3 can go. I'll respond to your responses in an hour

I'll wait for this.

Especially a response to my DEFCON comment.

I am here now if you want to start typing up your point #3 (but you probably have it already typed up from the way you talked about the other two points)

[Oversoul]

What's my point? gorilla did the town thing. If you're in LyLo, you don't want to be the reason for the entire town losing, ESPECIALLY not due to lack of effort. You will fight. I am fighting. Agar is not.

Again, like I said earlier, I would expect town in his position to be screaming at the top of their lungs about how absurd someone was being trying to plan their mislynch in LyLo. I generally don't read games that I am not in unless I am looking for a specific tell or association between players/habits. I take your word for it and just from looking at your summary I agree with the overall premise.

Yes, Agar's actions currently are not town minded.

You are in a trichotomy with myself and Agar. Agar is scum by his behaviour throughout the whole game, as well as today. But, officially, that doesn't make you clear.

I see. Regardless, looking back at my "confirmed town" list I agree that Agar is likely to not be town.

[Oversoul]

Oman did just have a town game of his end if anyone wants to go read his relatively low amount of posts.

[Oversoul]

Ok.

[Oversoul]

Agar, why have you been acting like this? You never really seemed committed and even now you aren't doing *anything*.

[Oversoul]

Looking at the last 9 completed Mini Normal games, 8 were won by scum.

This depresses me. I do not want to lose.

[Oversoul]

I ask you the same thing.

[Oversoul]

Do you have no opinion of Oman, Agar? We aren't even really focusing on you.

[Oversoul]

And what are you going to do when you get to LyLo?

[Oversoul]

I'm going to make one final claim because I'm a bitch:

If I was scum, I would have won this game by now

Happy hunting.

When?

I have a few opinions on things, but the most glaring at the moment is that you are trying to justify Myko and Elmo's deaths as attempts to discredit you when they were killed for their roles.

[Oversoul]

Whatever bro? Are you even going to comment on that point I made?

Forgive me if I *wasn't* the cop. I am in overall agreement with you Hez, but there are little things making me hesitant.

[Oversoul]

Hez, you literally typed "If Hez was scum.." scenarios where you as scum would have done more ridiculous things.

Where's Kdub?

I am going to get some milk and then I will make a longer post.

[Oversoul]

Hez, you're saying a lot of things that I agree with, but I just don't *want* to agree with. Maybe your attitude toward me is justified.

- I need to have told my buddies ahead of time that every time I attack one of them, they should discredit me. Why do I _need_ to have told them this?
- because this couldn't have happened spontaneously. Oman has already shown from today and yesterday that he has no problem voting both myself and Peabody. Therefore, Oman is not averse to bussing. If I were to start a decent attack on Peabody, Oman hopping on is pretty much a given. Unless I told him way way ahead of time not to. - because this couldn't have happened spontaneously. Oman has already shown from today and yesterday that he has no problem voting both myself and Peabody. Therefore, Oman is not averse to bussing. If I were to start a decent attack on Peabody, Oman hopping on is pretty much a given. Unless I told him way way ahead of time not to.

I see your point, but that doesn't mean this entire game was planned by the scum. In my experience, scum don't like being tied to a plan that could easily fail due to an external factor. Which I guess is more points towards you being town.

b) we planned this shit ahead of time, deciding we would pick ONE townie to take all the way to LyLo. Furthermore, I sculpted a damn good attack on Agar in #552 that was FUCKING IGNORED BY THE TOWN. This would require that attack to specifically fail, which we would have no way of knowing.

Don't you mean two townies?

But "if Hez is scum" is pretty simple. Let me ask you one question, the first one I am going to ask:

#1 - Why would I undermine my own credibility?

I can think of one explanation: maybe if people start viewing Hez as the VI he can focus more on looking town and less on constructing actual arguments? iunno.

Plausible. By increasing your noise to content ratio (or whatever it is called) you can focus less on looking for scum and more on being Hez. People are scared to approach those types of players considering the obscurity of "are they like this because they are mafia, or their personality?" For instance, look at Llama's post in MD.

People don't want to take the chance of lynching a VI or otherwise distracting player simply because they could be town.

However, I agree with you that this is unlikely and as I have said before, a plan this convoluted is very unlikely.

Have mafia taken every attempt to discredit me?

Could you further qualify this sentence please? Discredit you via nightkills based on your reads of the players, or another reason?

- Agar still has confidence because he is scum who does not feel the reprocussions of a mislynch.

I have another reason about that, but I would prefer if Agar came in here and without lying say his entire lack of motivation was because of this game and not some player, outside of mafia, etc reason

I have one final request: I don't know which of you will be going into LyLo tomorrow. I request that I get to place my vote on Agar before you vote. This is because
a) I would like some final words.
b) If there is anything more that needs to be covered I want to cover it.

I agree. You're town in my books. I just wanted to iron out all the wrinkles.

I am fine with voting Oman to lynch and then gg'ing Agar tomorrow.

[Oversoul]

I'll wait, Kdub.

Hez I do truly believe it, but I'll let Kdub come to his own conclusions.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Oman

Defeatist attitude certainly isn't going to help you if you really are town

(laughed as I said that)

[Oversoul]

Holy crap I thought today was Thursday.

[Oversoul]

I think it is time to wrap this up.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul jumped very quick to "GODFATHER."

You sure about that?

You're a joke if you think I am Mafia at this point as well.

[Oversoul]

That is a lot of heartache gone.

I really don't know who I would have gone for today... I was really banking on the subconscious trap I put in place (Hez acknowledged it after I said gg Agar).

Should have trusted my gut with Peabody.

And finally I can say it

Kdub. Your play reminds me of Thor and MoI. Like the similarities of Thor, when I attacked you to what happened in Zach's game under the Palisade were uncanny.

[Oversoul]

If Agar had been part of groupscum I think it would have been better.

I knew Peabody + Oman's defense of Peabody was weird. But Nisani... he just needed to be lynched.

[Oversoul]

Anyway, good game guys.

I wonder why I was suspected so much in the Dead QT >_>

Thank you to Hez and Nisani for the win... that was really unexpected to be honest.

[Oversoul]

Thanks, Tim! Despite everything I said I appreciate your moderating.