Mini 1368 (Game Over)

[I Am Innocent]

Innocent, what have you read so far?

Not much. I tend not to read the thread when I am a night replacement until I ensure I survive the night. I'll read up over the next few days.

[I Am Innocent]

Still reading, but before I fully catch up, I have a question for Cheery Dog:

Did you use your even night ability last night?

[I Am Innocent]

I don't feel anything exciting enough has happened that I currently need to reveal this.

Why do you think scum have left you alive? I mean I can see after N1, but why did you survive N2 when that is when you claimed your ability was first going to be used.

Is N4 the next time you can use your claimed ability?

[I Am Innocent]

Finished reading the thread. Still want to iso a few players, including Lupo, and I want to look at some meta of a player from a recent game I played. Will post thoughts, top suspects, and place my vote when I am done.

[I Am Innocent]

Lupo Analysis:

Post 21: RVS self votes, "j/k", votes KK
Post 47: will not commit to a town/scum read on Cheery*. does call him an intelligent player in past games
Post 51: defends hellhound**
Post 71: threatens Cheery* (his only scum read) with a vote, but wants to give him another chance. Does Unvote KK.
Post 94: responds to someone attacking NS and says "I feel that way on both Nobody Special and Kublai." Defense of NS possibly? And if he felt that way about KK, why the unvote?
Post 113: defends hellhound** again
Post 115: admits that Cheery* was the only lynch that he has pushed
Post 155: says about Cheery* "He was just an annoyance that distracted town from it's real goal." sugar coating at best
Post 158: says "The only things that jumped out was Cheery and NS/KK lurking"
Post 162: votes NS
Post 185: Continues to defend hellhound** while trying to explain why he didn't find NS scummy initially
Post 280: Continues to defend hellhound**
Post 373: Brags how he was right about hellhound being town
Post 421: votes NS
Post 545 (assume post hammer), he says NS is scum

* likely town
** confirmed town

The guy has 4 votes, an RVS for himself, and RVS for KK, and 2 for NS.

He defended a confirmed townie (hellhound), he failed to produce scum reads beyond Cheery/NS/KK, and yet did not vote his biggest scumread the whole time (likely townie Cheery), and KK only as an RVS vote.

I think Lupo was scared to make enemies. I think he took the safe road and voted his teammate, NS. When NS first started getting some heat, he said, wait, he is not the only one lurking, KK is too. Yet he then votes NS twice later. Only after receiving pressure himself tho.

I want to read my last game with NS. He was scum that game. I want to see if he voted any of his partners, because while Lupo voted NS twice, NS vowed not to vote Lupo unless a deadline was coming. Curious to see if this holds true in that other game too. I don't think NS is a busser...

My thoughts, I am pretty sure one of NS and bbstar are scum, likely NS.
Regarding the hellhound lynch, I would say pecanpie is the most likely scum, if not him maybe idiotking. Triangle is town.
Cheery is my biggest town read based on the claim/lack of a counter claim.

More to come, including my vote soon.

PS - NS, 12 hrs is a long time buddy, gonna post soon???

[I Am Innocent]

Hmmm, NY157, NS did vote his one teammate twice (the Godfather actually), the first time was to put him at L-1 and draw a cop claim. The second time it was under much scrutiny "I am not tying to stop a Hayker lynch." (Post 795, and Hayker was the Godfather)

The interesting thing, 15 posts in a game that went 5 "Days" and over 900 posts total.

That's enough for me.

vote Nobody Special

[I Am Innocent]

And I'll go for a bit of a reread and review - especially of Paschendale - and see if that gets me anywhere.

This was on Friday, what have you come up with?

I'll be rereading some of the game and look at some of the players on the NS wagon. I also think it's possible NS might also be scum, but I'm not sure.

Based on the 2nd sentence, what do you expect the first to tell you?

Un momento por favor.

Almost two days ago, what do you got? Whose scum? Top 2 or 3 list of suspects and why please?

then it's NS, BBS

and/

or possibly IAI?

Fixed your post.

This implies the whole team of scum is not paying attention. Which is just off because 1) NS as scum pays very close attention, he just lurks like there's no tomorrow and 2) I take pride in my scum play, having had 2 or 3 perfect scum wins myself. I don't miss stuff as scum, but nice try to anyone who wants to pretend like I would as scum.

My guess, scum is just messing with town. For this very reason. MOI likes to do that, which means we could have solid scum players. If this was a just WTH lets mess with them NK, look for the scum to be someone who starts the day off saying, why did scum do this, they must not be paying attention. (idiotking???)

Scum should let the town kill PRs, just because that lets them focus on others and let them maybe get another PR at night. So smart scum should still have let Paschendale get lynched. I'm still going with inactive/absent scum.

"let town kill PRs"??? Why do you think it is normal play to ask for a claim? Hmmm, maybe to avoid killing a town role....possibly....

Okay, whether you're misguided town or scum with an agenda, how about you just play along for a second and tell me who is scum for reasons other than the inactive/absent scum thoughts. I mean, we did just have a scum flip 1 day ago!!!

*************

@bbstar, who is scum and why? You have had a number of posts today and nothing of substance other than defending yourself.

[I Am Innocent]

"Well I've had quite a busy time lately, but I've got some thoughts spinning round."

I'm not asking for a reread or iso'ing players or anything. I just want to know who you feel is scum right now and why? Why do you keep dancing around the question? This I am okay with jester's decision excluding myself of course is scummy and I want you to do more than just blindly following town on likely town mislynches.

"To be honest I've quite enjoyed shutting up for a bit and seeing what others have to say, without me feeling like I'm influencing things."

Can I get a list of things you feel you have influenced?

"How can anyone CC an unclear claim?"

He claimed even night cop, right? I assume if he was lying a real cop would have come forward. So yes, a lack of a CC here on D3 has me believing him and putting him as my #1 town read. Why does this bother you?

**************

Also, why did you add "(false)" in that post. You do know it is scum that likes to discredit town right? Why did you post that unless you are sure I am scum? Or are you putting out feelers to see if anyone else bites before you vote for me. If you're going to attack me, show a pair and vote me already.

[I Am Innocent]

This I am okay with jester's decision excluding myself of course is scummy and I want you to do more than just blindly following town on likely town mislynches.

Uhhh, what exactly are you referencing here?

In light of what's been going on I'm inclined to agree on jester's scum pool. (Besides myself of course)

(more importantly, if you are the only scum in this group, sure I'd expect you to agree on jester's scum pool as long as it isn't yourself)

What made you decide I'm okay with everything jester decides?

Not saying that you are okay with everything jester decides, just saying that your willingness to follow him so easily without any scumhunting feels like scum who has 3 town targets to pick from is all.

And why no vote?

[I Am Innocent]

Also, why did you say early in the game that as a miller, you were okay being lynched before LyLo, but then were so anti being vigged N1 like my predecessor suggested? Wouldn't a night vig on a guaranteed non doc/cop/etc N1 be a better use than 1) a random shot with little information and 2) wasting a lynch just prior to LyLo on a claimed miller?

[I Am Innocent]

IK is spending a little

too

much effort in defending himself. Defending yourself

to a point

is fine, just don't over-do it.

Can you give me your read on every player in this game?

[I Am Innocent]

What an odd post to make, Cheery. Who did you expect to be killed?

Un momento por favor.

Almost two days ago, what do you got? Whose scum? Top 2 or 3 list of suspects and why please?

Well I've had quite a busy time lately, but I've got some thoughts spinning round.

Nobody hammers until
1) Nobody Special gives his reads on every player
2) PecanPie gives his reads on every player
3) IdiotKing claims

[I Am Innocent]

No CC here.

Thanks for the list everybody. One more person I'd like to hear from is Kublai Khan. Reads on every player please.

@PecanPie, are you saying that I am scum and that I knew IdiotKing was a town power role and purposely avoided his wagon as such? Lot of hoops there to jump thru, just want to make sure that is the point you are really making...

Also regarding this: "What's your take on it being such a pertinent point to make Day 1?" I thought it was obvious that I did. Scum have a survivalist mentality. You showed that as such after starting off the day so "noble" by saying that you should be lynched before LyLo. Yet as soon as someone suggested taking you out, it was like 'no, wait, anything but that'. So yes I found/find it pretty pertinent.

[I Am Innocent]

My gut doesn't agree because he's honestly said nothing about Melmond all game until this point. Not willing to string up a claimed doc just yet though.

I had similar thoughts.

IdiotKing, did you leave any crumbs anywhere about your role or who you targeted?

[I Am Innocent]

@mod, Kublai Khan needs a prod

@Kublai Khan, a look at your posts shows you have posted in general discussion constantly, why are you avoiding posting in here? If you are not interested in playing, please replace out.

[I Am Innocent]

Nobody Special - Twice a counter wagon to Lupo, early Day 1 and Day 2, and they're buddies? That's rare

Day 1, not sure I called these two counter wagons to each other, they both were minor wagons countered to Hellhound.

Lupo votes Day 1: Lupo (RVS), Kublai Khan, basketballstar1, killerjester
Nobody Special votes Day 1: Paschendale (RVS), Kublai Khan (RVS), Melmond, Paschendale, Hellhound, Lupo, Cheery Dog,

So town points for those voting confirmed scum D1 (Lupo), and looking at non-RVS votes for NS, I see 2 dead town, 1 claimed cop, 1 claimed cop investigated town, and Lupo himself.

So 4 likely town on NS wagon does not feel like a scum counterwagon.

Not sure your D1 theory holds alot of water.

As for D2, once again there were 3 wagons, basketballstar, NS, and Lupo. And who got lynched? The VANILLA Goon. So yes, I could see an unsuccessful counterwagon on a more powerful Mafia member.

[I Am Innocent]

Señor Ockham is on your side.

So the following people are excused...

• Melmond
  killerjester
  Cheery Dog
  Idiotking

These members of class may have some poor grades, but aren't the trouble makers...

• Nobody Special - Twice a counter wagon to Lupo, early Day 1 and Day 2, and they're buddies? That's rare
  basketballstar24 - This guy just doesn't smell right for scum, VI more likely

The following should report to the principals office immediately...

• I Am Innocent
  Triangle123
  Kublai Khan

If class is in favour of an I Am Innocent wagon, please raise their hands and vote.

If you were scum, where would you put your likely partner on this list? Town, Null, or Scum? I'm guessing null. Esp since you went out of your way to clear both null reads ("That's rare" & "VI more likely")

When I have been scum, which has been 8 times, I don't think I ever have given a town read to a partner. Why, because it removes the chance of bussing them later. Usually null, or if they play poorly, all out buss right from the start.

So if it doesn't make sense for scum, and I have 8 meta games of never doing it before, what is your rationale for me giving "my scum teammate" a town read like you seem to think?

Your votes have been very bad today. Likely Cop (Cheery), Likely Doc (Idiot) and Me (I know I'm town).

Your officially in my top 2 suspects along with NS.

[I Am Innocent]

Yarr.

Vote: I Am Innocent

Rationale? Have you even read the thread yet?

Well, since my IK wagon has totally stalled,

unvote

Vote: I am Innocent

(which he likely isn't, IMO.)

OMGUS?

[I Am Innocent]

And although I'm mildly annoyed at you Idiotking, I want to *****slap NS right now.

Can you explain what you mean here?

[I Am Innocent]

None of us had claimed before pecan's vote, seeing as Idiot got to L-1 before claiming, what makes that vote that bad?

If Idiot is town, then there was probably scum on that wagon. Hmmm, who joined that wagon late. NS - 4th vote, Pecan the L-1 vote.

I am town, and who is on my wagon. NS, Pecan....see a pattern here?

NS who says I am not even in his top 2 (Triangle and Idiot are) but votes me. It's called a scum preservation vote (I'll vote the other leading wagon to protect myself)

And you vote me over that scum. Nice.

also I'll now be going where I said early from jester's lynchpool that I was willing to lynch, and your claim of that being bad because you know you're town doesn't actually mean anything, lies may exist.

If the group feels that strongly that is the way to go, then we should lynch claimed

scum

miller. The guy who volunteered to be lynched before LyLo but then went all survivalist mode and says no way, the town vig should not shoot me!

The same guy who when he bussed his partner with a vote wouldn't even claim it was because he was scummy, instead referenced a policy lynch. "However, a good policy lynch might." (Post 431). Other great quotes from that post defending his partner:

"By virtue of Hellhound's town flip I felt the scumminess I picked up from Lupo's associative tells weakened." (saying look my partner is town because he refused to vote Hellhound)

"Also, I'm getting a vibe this game that scum are contributing more than most of town." (Lupo was not a contributing player, so trying to refocus to other players)

"So on the whole I feel my scum thoughts on Lupo have been nullified a bit." (saying guys, he is getting my vote, but not because he is scum...so please vote someone else)

"On the other hand, going awol for over a week at the end of Day 1 only to come back and be like "see told you guys Hellhound wasn't scum" is extremely aggravating." (see, lupo's not scum, he is just aggravating town)

@Cheery, if you feel so strongly about voting someone that voted hellhound, would you being willing to move your vote to PecanPie? To the guy who says, yes, I am okay with that pool of players as long as it's not me.

I'll vote either of these 2. I will not be voting anyone else except to prevent a no-lynch at deadline.

[I Am Innocent]

At this point I'm willing to lynch killerjester or NS. I need to look through IAI and Kublai Khan more before I make up my mind on them.

Why move your vote from a wagon of 4 to a wagon of 0? Do you really think killerjester is going to be lynched today? I'm thinking not, so why take pressure off of NS?

[I Am Innocent]

claim Odd-Night Cop

This is why pappums immediately unvoted CheeryDog when he hinted at an even night role.

Also, his early post D2 hinted at who he investigated (Triangle - innocent) and why he believe Cheery to be town (Claim).

It is also why I wanted to know indeed if Cheery was my counterpart today and who he investigated, so I could pick someone else tonight.

First off, I would just like to apologize for my actions late yesterday, playing like I did was ******* HORRIBLE PLAY and it shouldnt have happened.

My reads at this point:

Town:

triangle123

Probably/Maybe Town:

Cheery Dog - claim
Killer Jester - overall townie-mindset play (strongest townread based on play in this category)
Kublai Khan - overall townie-mindset play
Melmond - I dont see scum motivation in his posts

Other:

pecanpie - miller claim
Nobody Special - hasnt said enough to come to a conclusion either way

I could see as Scum:

Paschendale - late on the HH wagon and gut
Idiotking - hammered CDB w/o letting him claim or catch up. I know I said it didnt matter to me if he was lynched w/o these things, but I didnt feel Idiotking had enough suspicion of him to hammer in that fashion.

Best chance at Scum:

basketballstar24 - very WTF scummy posting late yesterday
Lupo - scummy counterwagon to HH

Lupo and Hellhound were counterwagons to each other, so for the moment at least I am going to:

Vote: Lupo

[I Am Innocent]

Hopefully all those who have town reads on pecanpie and NS can now see them in a little better light. Esp if you see my wagon and IK's wagon as town wagons, which is the one that kept stalling at 4 votes (NS) and who was on the other 2 wagons but not NS's (Pecanpie)

KK also comes off as scummy as he pushed NS earlier all game, yet comes in and goes on the counterwagon (mine).

It has to be one of these three players today

[I Am Innocent]

Oh, and last but certainly not least, hopefully this clears up why I was not a fan of focusing on a list of 4 players, two of which I believe strongly to be town (triangle being a godfather aside)

[I Am Innocent]

Anyone else not happy at the lack of content from NobodySpecial? Maybe its just me, but he's clearly not posted anything of value to the game yet.

@CD I'd have to agree with pecanpie here, you've posted a load of filler. Will you elaborate more on your reads then?

I feel that way on both Nobody Special and Kublai. With what I've heard about each one I would think that they would be more active. Yeah, Kublai has posted some content but not what I would expect.

For some reason, I think this post is key to figuring out the NS/KK/Lupo connection. To me, I feel there is definitely at least 1 scum in here "With what I've heard about each one" sounds like some inside info he knows of at least one.

And the order of things, NS being accused by a confirmed townie, and KK being added to the pot by a confirmed scum, points to NS as the scum.

NS has hopped on every counter wagon against his own today (IK, mine, KK) with little scumhunting, so I still lean in that direction.

KK's coming in and voting for me when pushing NS early in the game felt off, as well as his sudden burst of posts now that he has some votes. KK's lack of vote on NS also feels off.

I am keeping my vote on NS, and think BBstar should move back as well if he feels that is the better wagon. If KK votes NS, that leaves the decision to IK and jester.

[I Am Innocent]

You people. You should listen to reason, you know.

unvote

Vote: Lupo

That's L-1. Any scum on my wagon, feel free to jump over here and hammer.

This post also felt off, the last sentence could be a call to any teammate to vote the vanilla goon over himself, a likely power scum.

If that is the case, Kublai, BBstar, Melmond or Cheery would be the teammate as these were the players not on the wagon. (don't think he was calling Lupo to vote himself)

[I Am Innocent]

jester, I personally think KK is town and NS is scum, with one more scum out there. Slight chance they are both scum.

[I Am Innocent]

That wagon moved too fast for my liking. And the fact NS wagon stalled once again while many shady players in my mind (including you and NS) hopped on feels like a mislynch to me.

So a question back at you. You think KK is scum, and CES is his teammate, right? You really think CES bussed by starting the KK wagon when town cop listed two other targets, one of which was at L-2 at the moment?

[I Am Innocent]

I'd like everybody to list their top 2 suspects before I disclose my investigation

[I Am Innocent]

NS, who are your top 2 suspects?

[I Am Innocent]

Thanks everyone.

I was not roleblocked last night. My investigation turned up scum for Nobody Special.

vote Nobody Special