Mini 1422 - White Room Mafia - Game Over

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: FourTrouble

And I knew you were trouble when you walked in
so shame on me now.

[MonkeyMan576]

Several players have only posted once, I suggest we focus on them and end this town vs. town pissing contest.

Unvote:
Vote: Vendetta21

[MonkeyMan576]

popular and Hiraki look like town v. town. It sounds like they are exaggerating their cases trying to get the other to slip/react. I just don't get a scum vibe from either of them.

I am all for analyzing, I just would hate to see one townie become an example for another townie's ego.

[MonkeyMan576]

I know a town/town pissing contest when I see one.

And I don't like lurker defenders. 24 hours is plenty of time to post.

[MonkeyMan576]

I looked at the post activity and I saw 1 post players, I forgot there could be 0 post players as well, my bad.

I know that scum like to lurk to avoid attention/taking stances etc. I see post activity as a general towntell.

I also think FourTrouble could be trying to defend some of his scumbuddies that are 1 or 0 post players.

[MonkeyMan576]

@thenewearth: are you actually suggesting we end the day with a no vote or are you planning to vote someone at some point during the day?

[MonkeyMan576]

I looked at the post activity and I saw 1 post players, I forgot there could be 0 post players as well, my bad.

I know that scum like to lurk to avoid attention/taking stances etc. I see post activity as a general towntell.

I also think FourTrouble could be trying to defend some of his scumbuddies that are 1 or 0 post players.

Dude, lurking is scummy LATER in the game.

Seriously, what you're doing is totally avoiding the responsibility of taking any position regarding Mozamis... which just happened to be the main wagon we had going.

Oh, and your weak OMGUS didn't even come with a vote? Yea Monkey is scum.

You don't think you can attack someone without voting them? It wasn't an OMGUS, it was refuting your misguided/scummy position.

[MonkeyMan576]

You don't think you can attack someone without voting them? It wasn't an OMGUS, it was refuting your misguided/scummy position.

Where did you address my point that it is too soon in the game to start calling anyone a lurker? What about the point that you completely ignored Mozamis? Oh right, you didn't refute anything.

All you did was imply I'm scum... which is called OMGUS, cause you're "refuting" my position by calling me scum.

Obviously I disagree with you on lurking. I don't see any point on Mozamis. And I'm not going to get into a theory debate on OMGUS with you.

[MonkeyMan576]

OMGUS is voting for somebody in response to the vote they put on you. Pretty basic, no theory. FourTrouble is tripping. That being said, I really am distrustful of MonkeyMan's less than superb logic and accusatory nature. To me it seemed like he was trying to shift to the "lurkers" and get a wagon started or something. I don't know, there hasn't been enough material for me. I will leave my vote on MM for the time being.

I don't think there was anything subtle about what I was doing. I said "I think Hiraki and popular is town v. town" and "there are better candidates too focus on".

Why are you acting like I am trying to be sneaky/underhanded?

FOS: FourTrouble

[MonkeyMan576]

I looked at the post activity and I saw 1 post players, I forgot there could be 0 post players as well, my bad.

I'm all for intimidating lurkers early. You will get no complaints from me on that one.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: thenewearth

That was a terrible sequence from you.

I don't like this. Trying to steer town toward an obviously newer player isn't really a townie move.

Unvote
Vote thenewearth

SO MUCH NOPE.

Newbies voting no lynch before realizing it's anti-town is nothing new and isn't alignment indicative. Newbies voting no lynch but switching to a vote when someone questions them on it is scummy though. It shows that they're trying to take the path of least resistance rather than do what they think is best for town.

New players are VERY likely to avoid getting involved and follow the path of least resistance. Why? Because they haven't become familiar with online mafia or the meta around here. It makes sense to me that TNE is switching votes rather than hitting on anything.

Give TNE a chance before we dogpile on him. He's made two posts and he's obviously new (at least based on his posts and his joined date). Did you guys really expect some intense scumhunting from a new player after three pages of very mild bickering?

thenewearth knows enough to know what a no vote is. Do you really think they don't know how to play mafia? I'm not saying we need to lynch them but asking them to justify a no vote/OMGUS is not a bad thing.

[MonkeyMan576]

Just a word of advice, qwints voted me on the first game of the post in the last game we just finished(0 flavor mafia), and then quickly unvoted me. He also thought I was a valuable scum partner in that game. So he obviously doesn't really think I am a policy lynch, which leads me to question his motives.

[MonkeyMan576]

*post of the game, darn word reversals.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes, Mafia 89 and Mafia 91 for starters.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think qwints is intimidated that I have been in most of his previous games and is afraid of me meta'ing him.

Unvote:
Vote: qwints

[MonkeyMan576]

0 percent flavor, You Could Be Anyone(ongoing), and one other one recently.

[MonkeyMan576]

Really though, he seems seriously spooked out by having me in the game for some reason. I can't talk about ongoing games, but his reactive nature leads me to believe he's scum, as he likes to blend in normally.

[MonkeyMan576]

We can't even mention that an ongoing game exists? I thought we just couldn't talk about what was happening in it.

[MonkeyMan576]

Qwints is not consistant with his "policy lynch" policy. He is being very opportunistic, let me put it simply for you, Hiraki.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Four - There's a difference between saying I'm scummy and having a difference of opinion. The issue is that this is the 4th game recently we've played together and he wants to have a reason to lynch me in a me town him scum scenario.

[MonkeyMan576]

Qwints seems much more worked up over this. That is scummy.

I am not policy lynch in most games. I have somewhat of an abrasive style and attract a lot of attention early, which has a tendancy to get me lynched, it does not make me a liability to the town.

[MonkeyMan576]

[Quote=Elleran]@Monkey: Are you saying that being reactive to questions and refuting points is scummy? How else would you want someone to act? You make a meta argument here, but I would like to point out that refuting others and acting little more aggressively is also indicative of a VT.[/quote]

I'm saying I've seen lots of games where he is town, especially where he replaces in such as this one, and his goal is to get to lylo, and he often does that at the expense of scumhunting. I'm just the opposite, I will risk being lynched to force people to take positions and to look for scum. His play in this game is not indicative of how he usually plays as town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Well, he did just lose in lylo in 0 percent flavor when we were scumbuddies, so maybe he is not in a good mood?*shrug*.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Four: Your read explanations are terrible. If someone tried to policy vote you you would be defensive too. I don't see The Director as "laying low" or having "no depth of thought".

[MonkeyMan576]

Objection! Leading the witness!

[MonkeyMan576]

If you really think I'm scum, then just lynch me. I'm a vanilla townie.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's more that it's contrary to your normal town behavior. Which leads me to believe you're scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote:
Vote: Carey

I'm annoyed with him too. He obviously has no plan to be productive. You can't threaten the town with saying your bad play is town meta and expect to live.

[MonkeyMan576]

Don't be presumptive.

I don't think Carey is lazy. People that don't put any thought into what they are doing either are scum or might as well be scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Whatevah. If you are going to act this dumb you deserve to lose.

[MonkeyMan576]

You're calling him out for acting differently when he's already shown that he's acted this way in a different game.

Not to mention, the original examples you gave were false. Aren't you an agitator of Lynch All Liars?

That's not true at all, I didn't give any false examples.

He is acting differently than he normally does as town. I wasn't referring to his policy lynching, which I have already explained.

You're not acting very logically here and twisting my words.

[MonkeyMan576]

---

Unvote:
Vote: Carey

I'm annoyed with him too. He obviously has no plan to be productive. You can't threaten the town with saying your bad play is town meta and expect to live.

Monkey, you gave reasons. However, like qwints pointed out, why switch to someone who's playing anti-town compared to someone who you think is playing scummy?
---

It's called multitasking. I'm making it clear they are both suspects.

[MonkeyMan576]

I often don't make sense evidently. I live in my own little world where everything I do is scummy, especially when I'm town.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think newearth is as new as he makes himself seem. I bet he has played on other sites.

But yeah, he reads town. I also think Hiraki, Rob13, and mozamis are town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Probably The Director too.

[MonkeyMan576]

Four is starting to lean scum to me. He's attacking perceived poor players and buddying with perceived strong players, rather than attacking based on scumminess. This is classic scum play, trying to get "strong players" on your side to avoid being lynched and trying to get "weak players" lynched.

[MonkeyMan576]

I said your reads were bad. This is different than having actions that are scummy. I tend to compartmentalize scumminess I guess rather than dump everything into one bucket.

[MonkeyMan576]

Uh...that was quite a leap there four. I never forgot you were scum. I said I categorize scumminess in different ways.

[MonkeyMan576]

Four thinks Ellaran is "strong" and I am "weak"(a common misinterpretation).

[MonkeyMan576]

Four is starting to lean scum to me. He's attacking perceived poor players and buddying with perceived strong players, rather than attacking based on scumminess. This is classic scum play, trying to get "strong players" on your side to avoid being lynched and trying to get "weak players" lynched.

When Monkey made this post, I had my vote on Elleran and was both attacking him and criticizing his play. Then, we have this:

Four thinks Ellaran is "strong" and I am "weak"(a common misinterpretation).

Lolwut? I don't know where Monkey got the idea that I perceive Elleran as strong (for the record, I think his reads are pretty good but his playstyle sucks), but what is really hilarious is the fact that I was attacking (not "buddying") Elleran.

Can whoever is not voting for Monkey explain why they're not at this point... He's been obvious scum from his first posts in the game.

Elleran, your reads are actually pretty good, somewhat similar to what I have been thinking.

This is buddying.

[MonkeyMan576]

Or we could both be town, which is most likely.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm a vanilla townie, and that was a terrible vote.

[MonkeyMan576]

At least when I flip town it will be pretty easy to tell who the scum are.

[MonkeyMan576]

I play pretty emotional as town and scum. One reason i play that way is to get reads and reactions on other players.

[MonkeyMan576]

This is a very poor wagon. Anyone should be able to see that. Carey, newearth, qwints, those are all questionable/scummy votes. I also bet all three scum are on the wagon.

[MonkeyMan576]

Except the poor quality of the wagon.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes, because scum want to mislynch town.

Qwints wagon looks good. he's obviously trying to mislynch me.

Unvote:
Vote Qwints

[MonkeyMan576]

I haven't been scummy at all.

[MonkeyMan576]

The switch from antagonistic to suddenly trying to be strategic doesn't seem very genuine to me.

[MonkeyMan576]

For qwints I mean

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't believe Qwints claim. He is not acting like town, and he could easily fake being roleblocked or fake results on townies to get them lynched.

[MonkeyMan576]

My point was it comes down to if you believe the person is playing like town or not.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm willing to see what happens, but my vote stays on qwints.

[MonkeyMan576]

Who are your top 3 scumreads, Elleran?

[MonkeyMan576]

In Newbie 1322, as town, Carey made 139 of the days first 468 posts. That is very active.

Also, he plays chess and cards. He doesn't strike me as the stupid type.

Unvote:
Vote: Carey

[MonkeyMan576]

EBWOP: 139 of the first two days 468 posts, since he was lynched on day 2.

[MonkeyMan576]

Do you really think not scumhunting will stop you from getting lynched?

[MonkeyMan576]

TNE, qwints claimed. there's really no reason right now to not believe it. you need to vote mozamis because he's scum. and if you're really curious on my case i'm sure mozamis will be delighted to tell you all about it.

There's no reason not to believe it? Really?

[MonkeyMan576]

That he doesn't have a pro-town attitude. He's not working with the people I perceive as pro town.

[MonkeyMan576]

not being pro-town isn't necessarily scummy.

If you're consistantly not pro town its scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

Hey monkey, who are you talking about?

Who do you think is playing anti town/scummy and why?

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote:
Vote: Mazamis

Guy is clearly more concerned with saving himself than finding scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Do you consider that anti-town or scummy, Monkey?

Both, obviously. Any investigations should go towards Rob, imho.

[MonkeyMan576]

Oh come on Rob, you know you're probably not going to die because you're scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

since when was rob a scumread for you? any other scumreads we need to know about?

someone hammer mozamis.

He was nuetral, I thought someone should investigate him because of his shiftiness, then since he got wierded out when I suggested someone investigate him he is a scumread.

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote:
Vote: Rob

I actually agree with Mozamis here.

[MonkeyMan576]

What do town have to gain by not wanting to give reads?

[MonkeyMan576]

Also, this forces Carey to take a stand and not just say he was hammering to go along with the town. If someone is going to hammer, I want it to be someone who will take responsibility for it.

[MonkeyMan576]

Also, this forces Carey to take a stand and not just say he was hammering to go along with the town. If someone is going to hammer, I want it to be someone who will take responsibility for it.

So you want your partner Carey to take full responsibility for the lynch of scum in order to make him seem more townish? Gotcha.

I think I've made it pretty clear Carey is not my partner. I was the first to wagon him earlier. You're really acting rather irrational and stretching cases recently, which is all the more reason for my unvote.

[MonkeyMan576]

where do you think you're going to get with your rob vote? WHY/HOW is rob scum over mozamis?

Mozamis is acting more rational/logical than Rob. I don't see any substance to any of Rob's arguments, and I really feeling uneasy about Casey hammering when he hasn't participated all game. It seems like he wants to hammer for the sake of hammering and doesn't care who it is.

[MonkeyMan576]

If you can convince the director to hammer I will L1.

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote:
Vote: Mozamis

[MonkeyMan576]

Ah I guess The Director was the hammer.*shrug*

[MonkeyMan576]

I thought director was L1, obviously.

[MonkeyMan576]

Between the policy lynch nonsense and being first on the mozamis wagon, I really think qwints is scum. Fourtrouble and Rob are my next top two suspects at this point.

Willing to wait to hear qwints "results".

Unvote:
Vote: Fourtrouble

[MonkeyMan576]

unvote
Vote unseencamo

So camo qwints and four id the scumteam?

[MonkeyMan576]

Am I looking into it too hard if I could see that the kill came from unseencamo?

[MonkeyMan576]

Because Hiraki has a night result evidently?

[MonkeyMan576]

I'd like more of an explanation from Hiraki, but he's at least willing to put himself on the line against camo.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Qwints: You're still not getting make up sex, and you're still scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

So we're expecting the scum to act reasonably/town now?

[MonkeyMan576]

Seems like a pretty good explanation to me.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm glad I have Hiraki to do all the work..

Unvote:
Vote: Four

[MonkeyMan576]

Of course if you're wrong we're going to lynch you. Ha Ha Ha.

[MonkeyMan576]

I am pretty confident the rest of the town will agree this is effectively 1v1 you>whoever you want to lynch. We don't need scum steamrolling a town loss. You are way too confident so you are either scumhunter of the year or scum trying to control the game.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's a special gift. I love that all the scum think I'm "scummy".

[MonkeyMan576]

Can you stop with the OMGUS attacks camo? No one cares if you think I am a bad mafia player.

[MonkeyMan576]

I am...I was Jeffery Dahmer in a past life.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think Hiraki is town because I agree with his reads and he has been constantly active.

[MonkeyMan576]

Personally I think you are scummier than him, so I probably wouldn't take too much stock in that analysis.

[MonkeyMan576]

well if it's a battle of who is the scummiest then you just won hands down

LOL if you say so.

[MonkeyMan576]

For writing twilight fanfic? I know the movies suck but really...

[MonkeyMan576]

Just as long as it's Team Jacob, right?

[MonkeyMan576]

As town, why would I think people who disagree with my reads are town?

[MonkeyMan576]

As town, why would I think people who disagree with my reads are town?

Because townies disagree with each other all the fucking time. Are you really THAT superficial?

I'm saying there's a difference between someone disagreeing with you every now and then, and then there is seemingly a group of 9 people that think the other 3 people are scum, and pretty much everyone agreeing on it. There are reasons other than just the fact that I agree with the other 8, but there's not really a lot of incentive to go into my reasoning when we are reasonably sure that going through with the lynches will result in a town win.

[MonkeyMan576]

i agree newearth could be scum, but this has dragged on long enough, let's lynch camo or four.

[MonkeyMan576]

You'd feel bad if he actually was hit by a bus.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think I've made myself appear hard to read. I've made my allegiences pretty clear.

[MonkeyMan576]

Why would you sign up for a game and not want to participate? It's your job to catch up, not ours.

[MonkeyMan576]

Hiraki is town. camo and four are scum. Nothing has changed in my book.

[MonkeyMan576]

Can we stop with the implied homophobia please?

[MonkeyMan576]

Agar Meta Case:

In Mini 1409, as town, he acts fairly logically and talks about game theory a lot.

in NY Mafia 155,a s town, he also acts fairly dispassionatly as town.

Apparently Agar is almost never scum, historically. I had to go back to 2009, Open 300 to find a scum game for him. But he seems to get upset and swear a lot more when he is scum. He doesn't seem very good at blending in and gaining a concensus, which is important for town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Sorry, wrong game.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Rob, why are you trying to corner people on their opinions when you are about as waffly as they come?

[MonkeyMan576]

UNVOTE:

I'm still stuck in this game. Trying to get unstucked

@Rob, why are you trying to corner people on their opinions when you are about as waffly as they come?

What, did you two get fucking prodded or something?

Make a fucking post. A real post.

I'm first in post count. Keep up already.

[MonkeyMan576]

We'll see when Hiraki flips town who is stupid(or scum).

[MonkeyMan576]

Sticks and stones...

[MonkeyMan576]

I think one of either Waluigi or Hiraki is likely scum. Hiraki is obvtown to me, but if Waluigi flips town it might change my opinion of the way things are going in this game.

Unvote:
Vote: Waluigi

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not the VI. I'm sorry you don't like my playstyle. I'm not sure what it is you want from me. I'm voting who I think is scum, i'm giving my reasons, I'm supporting who I think is town. So lighten up already.

[MonkeyMan576]

Whiskers doesn't seem to notice the difference between someone being scum and someone who posts differently than them. He also doesn't recognize that different people have different ways of posting. Pretty much all of his lynch preferences are based off of flawed assumptions af value, not who is actually scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Fourtrouble, Unseen, Rob, and Walugi being on the Hiraki wagon is very telling. I'm wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

[MonkeyMan576]

Mmmm...hmmm...we'll see when the flip comes.

[MonkeyMan576]

I love you in depth analysis, Whiskers. You know your personal insults don't change anything, right?

[MonkeyMan576]

Rob vs. Hiraki looks town vs. town to me. Therefore Rob should get on our wagon.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes, I have switched a lot on Rob. That is because Rob waffles and is hard to read.

[MonkeyMan576]

And you initially wanted to policy lynch me, and now you are trying to overreach your case on me again because you know I am right.

[MonkeyMan576]

read: qwints is hammering Hiraki because qwints is scum and Hiraki is town.

[MonkeyMan576]

If I die make sure you get qwints, camo, and unseen.

[MonkeyMan576]

lol I meant four of course. it's not my fault you have usernames that make no sense to anything.

[MonkeyMan576]

And sometimes the idiots are the one's that lynch the obvtown, or scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Says "MonkeyMan" with an added string of meaningless numbers. OK seems legit.

Monkey was my childhood nickname, jackass.

[MonkeyMan576]

Most likely there will be no scum kills tonight, because players are stupid.

[MonkeyMan576]

massclaim isnt necessary with the lynchpool the town has this in the bag.

vote Walugi

.

[MonkeyMan576]

The other scum are camo qwints and four. One is probably a sk.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm scum...lynching should be in this order, Four>camo>qwints.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not scum rather, obviously.

[MonkeyMan576]

You still think you're town, LOL...

[MonkeyMan576]

Nothing like tooting your own horn. I hope you have your noose ready tomorrow.

[MonkeyMan576]

Ha ha knew four and unseen were scum. Listen to me next time guys.

[MonkeyMan576]

The Director is also on my blacklist, I have pm'd mith.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't really understand your criticism, Hiraki.

[MonkeyMan576]

Again, not exactly in depth criticism. I may not be good in envoking a townish presence, but I am evidently pretty good with reads.

[MonkeyMan576]

Or maybe you are just a judgemental asshole.

[MonkeyMan576]

So you don't like the way I play because I am hard to read. That doesn't make sense.