Mini 1439 -- Game Over

[Cheery Dog]

Rule 2 looks fun without "out"
Also /confirm.

Fixed

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: Secret Agent Sloth

As you're two people I've played with before, you beat Bacde and qwints for gaining my random vote. Congrats.

[Cheery Dog]

tbh I think #32 and #36 are scummy

I agree with this. #36 is the bigger scuminess by forcing comments that would probably have happened maturely. This was already happening in some cases already.

VOTE: fegelein

[Cheery Dog]

That there already were people commenting on #32 before that post. (cases referring to the responses after that post that 2 if the 3 of them already talked about the specific post)

Though it appears I should have possibly looked at the timestamps all I know is that happened during my night.

[Cheery Dog]

Actually no, my intention here was to try and get some activity going in the thread, as RVS really wasn't getting us anywhere.

Also, even though Bacde has yet to provide reasoning for his vote yet, I really want to put your thoughts on #36 under some scrutiny here. How is trying to get people to contribute to the thread scummy, other than to mask yourself, which isn't stated in your post. As for your other point, yes it was, and I think my post helped develop those thoughts, as I was asking for people's thoughts on it.

You asked a question on a post that was already very likely to draw attention to itself. Therefore forcing it to be made less interesting and basically halted any new people questioning the actual post.

And the people already taking about it were already talking it about it. Like before your post. How does sf chapter before your post be influenced by something yet to come?

[Cheery Dog]

If anything, I'm trying to invoke people's thoughts on the post, which makes it more interesting. Also, there's new people questioning the post now.

We've had someone call it null read, and 2 people call it scummy.
and then it's stemmed of this conversation we're having now.
I quite probably ould have actually explainmed why I felt it scummy had your post about it and asking opinions not been there at the same time. Now it lacks the hit it might have been to develop eads on chillkid, but I guess you're allowed to attempt reads of everyone at once.

SF chapter? Also, I'm trying to draw out opinions on the post itself, not just responses.

phone posts errors. (had you not responded in stupid bolding things way, I'd fix it in the quote, but that just makes things harder to response to responses (hence my delay in even getting around to this)) For now you just get "stuff posted" (I think I changed my mind about which order I was posting the stuff in and never noticed the phone somehow do that Since I missed it then, I don't really have other ideas for where my phone might have got chapter from)
Those are generally the same thing.
I still feel like you attempted a forceful removal out of RVS, while it was going to be happening at the same time anyway.
I would have responded myself had it not been during my nightime.

[Cheery Dog]

Yeah no, it's way to hard to read stuff when everyone is talking in the one quote tag.
Even typing [/ quote] at the end of bits you're responding to and [ quote] at the beginning of each new section of quoted text is better. (although still annoying as there's less text to see the gaps between segments when responding to a large response) the only thing worse than reading conversations inside quote tags are people who use

"this is a quote"

Also it means you're never get my straight away response if I'm checking from my phone like I am now.

@chillkid do you have a history of people without avatars being scum?

[Cheery Dog]

I tend to not respond when I'm on my phone, unless I'm making a quick point. You don't have to respond while on your phone you know.

In fact, it seems that you're overkeen to defend yourself at this stage. Just a little bit of psychology.

when I know I'm not going to have access to a computer for another 10 hours afterwards, I feel the ned to post from my phone (mostly because I can)

---

And we're all but ending day 1 here, there's people that have so far only confirmed.

[Cheery Dog]

Aye, it's stemmed out into a interesting conversation about Radiant, where we will determine our opinions on him. As for your other point, I think you're trying to say that I'm making the event harder to get a read on at this point. My intention was to create discussion on that factor, as I want to hear from other people on the matter. Also, I still fail to see how trying to get discussion going and inadvertently cutting the discussion short constitutes a vote.

It's the way in which you tried to get conversation going that made me give you my vote.
Because what asking the group for thoughts (please note this is only my opinion and mostly based on how I act myself in RL questions in this vain) really do is have someone post and then usually others repeat the same opinion. Sometimes you'll get something unique in a later post on the subject, but really it won't give much information.

Had you just got with your belief it was a towntell, I'd actually be fine with it.

[Cheery Dog]

YOLO is town for pressuring and acting based on the reaction
Radiant Cowbells can be town for now til I verify YOLO's meta claim.

UNVOTE: Radiant Cowbells
VOTE: Red Dragon for reading YOLO's pro-town behavior as scummy.

I don't like this vote, I need to read the people involved, but this vote stinks of pointlessness.

[Cheery Dog]

how can you possibly think that yolo and I are both possible scums based on our exchange with each other?

I can't actually see anything that indicates your alignment to each other in either direction at the moment.

Though the fact you've made this comment makes me think at least one of you is town, so maybe I do see something now. gah too much thinking required.

[Cheery Dog]

I have 2 main reasons why I feel Bacde is one of our better lynches:
1: Says that #32 and #36 are scummy, never expands on it, despite me asking. Looks like he's avoiding my question.

2: Red Dragon gave good reasoning, he's basically not helping the Town scumhunt also.

I'm also getting bad feelings about SAS (bandwagoned me, with no explanation, and a lack of contributions anyway), Norfolk (his only post was a simple vote, with no explanation), Cheery Dog (his reasoning into voting me is really odd, but on the other hand, his recent posts are better) and Radiant (don't let him get off the hook so early for the things he's done)

My votes still on you for what has become a weaker version of my original argument, which ones of my posts have been better and in what way has it changed from that original odd post?

But SAS thinking you are scum should be something that you should know is false, yet you townread him for it? Seems fishy

"You don't OMGUS him, you must be scum!"

Eh, I'm not saying that he MUST be scum

but town are more likely to OMGUS than townread whoever is attacking them

If you can see someone is serious in their suspicions, then there's every chance town could read town into their attackers. I know I've definitely done it as town before.
Though I do agree that scum are more likely to town read attackers, generally as appeasment guestures in the hope it makes them go away.

FoS MrBump. Only scum know who is town.

On top of that, he won't GTFO.

So people having townreads on others is a new thing to you?

[Cheery Dog]

I don't like this wagon anymore.

UNVOTE:

But then my head isn't in this game so we'll see what happens.

I could see the MrBump/Fegel connection, but I don't think that is actually that likely.

[Cheery Dog]

That's just confusing Om, and doesn't help.

[Cheery Dog]

I just don't understand the wagon at all, he's pretty much the only one actively trying to scumhunt while everyone else sits around twiddling their thumbs and going "WAGON TIME" before hopping off when someone says "i ain't scum"

You're not joining in the fun of wagoning, therefore scum.

Except that's also possibly nonsense and at this stage probably won't actually help me get my head back into what has been happening this game.

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: chillkid

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: MrBump
Cheery join me. (notice how I only vote MrBump after cheery has voiced an opinion that implies he thinks he's possibly scum so that I know I have support on this)
I didn't like chill's wagon jump either (since I'm assuming that's why you don't like it). (notice how I try and agree with Cheery to hopefully capture his heart and get him on my side)

I also didn't like qwintz's vote, but it did seen more town.

[Cheery Dog]

What's with the bump vote?

Me deciding after hitting submit that I wanted to reply to om.

The fact it was a bump means nothing, it was just me double posting that went over a page.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm thinking chillkid might be a scapegoat here (not seen him as particularly scummy, I know putting me at L-1 is considered scummy, but it seems to me that it's a scum mousetrap move). While I believe Bacde to be scummy (and I stand by my previous arguments against him), I think Cheery Dog's vote against chillkid is extremely scummy, and opportunistic as hell.

Let me re-read before I decide what to do with my vote atm. May ISO Cheery Dog too.

I don't think you've actually got to L-1 yet, chillkids vote was L-2 (as Bacde had already got off before Om replaced in).

How does me unvoting you may my vote less opportunistic, if that's what you believe it was?

Aaand we have our scumteam, ladies and gentlemen, of RadiantCowbells and chillkid. chillkid has nine posts in thread and three different votes, one of which is an RVS on Radiant; a wagon he leaps straight off as soon as he goes "OH NO THEY CAUGHT ME" and then never mentions him again. Defends himself against the same logic he used to RVS his scumbuddy. Apart from that, he's just scummy in general and they're my top two FoS's and I can't POSSIBLY be wrong so SCUMTEAM GOGOGO.


Pun train is 10/10, all players in it became ConfTown, even Radiant. Gonna have to rethink my case.

Too much seriousness in a jokey way here or something else I don't like.

Should be just PoE the non-pun trainers?
\Though what makes it so that scum wouldn't have joined in?

[Cheery Dog]

SAS and Om both town

Other than that a slow game

[Cheery Dog]

Seriously rethinking my fegelein scum read. GOGO YOLO.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: YOLO

You actually had a fegelein scum read? I though you joined the wagon for the sake of wagons.

[Cheery Dog]

Fine, I'll be nice.
You're pretty spot on with the MrBump reason. He danced around the idea of voting for chillkid yet he never followed up. Yolo just kinda jumped on the chillkid wagon because of echoed reasons (or things that were already heavily implied to be bad) and also because he didn't like the Fegel wagon (read: He's just choosing between the top wagons). Cheery and Bacde are there because I'm getting slight gut feelings, but also because I'm betting there is definitely at least one scum on the chillkid wagon.

Does this mean you believe don_johnson is town?

[Cheery Dog]

You're meant to go read your own posts in those cases, geez om, why you so lazy.

[Cheery Dog]

Why's YOLO on L-3 now?

and what's with the Norfolk/penguin slot not wanting to post like ever?

I also feel like moving back to the Fegelien waogn, but can't be bothered actually putting those thoughs as to why in place. Which probably means I'm going to remain getting nowhere. fun times.

[Cheery Dog]

At least get off the d_j/chillkid wagon for now

I don't have faith that's he is town, so no. Much more likely scum than town currently in my opinion.

[Cheery Dog]

He'd been simmering as leaning scum before that after his no avatar = scum debarkle at the start, and with no content, it's just grown.

[Cheery Dog]

TIL Om can't be scum because he is active, but that logic does not apply to me.

Who is calling Om not scum because he is active?

[Cheery Dog]

He'd been simmering as leaning scum before that after his no avatar = scum debarkle at the start, and with no content, it's just grown.

Fair enough, what did you think of the others on his wagon when it was at it's largest?

MrBump's the only one I haven't had some form of townread come at all.

[Cheery Dog]

What sparked your townread on YOLO?

I'd say likely gut at the time of that wagon, but currently it's also based on the fact I don't really have any good reads on him, and the fact I don't know really know what the actual reasons for why he is being voted.

I guess it could be bussing though.

[Cheery Dog]

Its called self-meta.

OM is 100% guaranteed scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Om of the Nom

I take it you haven't seen Om in action before if you're that confident.

[Cheery Dog]

At least get off the d_j/chillkid wagon for now

I don't have faith that's he is town, so no. Much more likely scum than town currently in my opinion.

whatchu need, bra?

Better content than chillkid had given.

)
P-edit;, there's nothing wrong with him reading scum there, but that level of diffidence is just out of place.

[Cheery Dog]

just iso'd chillkid. looks fine to me. voted, gave reads. moved the game forward. you seem to be taking advantage of an empty slot.

If I wanted a completely empty slot, wouldn't I be better on penguin_alien?
what chillkid had given is what has made me vote him.

[Cheery Dog]

Would it be to

Just to going to show everyone my list I made:
TOWN
MrBump
Ztife
Red Dragon
Secret Agent Sloth
don_johnson
RadiantCowbells
penguin_alien
Om of the Nom
Cheery Dog
Bacde
evilpacman18 (for YOLO's play really, waiting for him to respond)
qwints
SCUM

I had a really tough time ranking everyone from Don to Om.

o much trouble to ask for reasons for each person's place in this list, seeing as you went to the trouble . make it, I assume you do have reasons

[Cheery Dog]

cooldog are you the third scum

cooldog's not playing this game, if he replaces in then maybe

[Cheery Dog]

^^Am I the only one who thinks this guy is scum this game?

I might be willing to wagon qwints depending on if he even checks into this game. If he doesn't get any analysis out, he might just be trying to slip by

I think it's quite possible red dragon is scum, so no you're not the only one thinking that.

And I'm not overly convinced with the qwintz lynch, though what is concerning me with him is the slow progression from yolo vote to chainsaw defending him and them back to yolo vote.

Anyway without the reasons for everyone being where they are on fegel's list, I'm just going to have to assume they're placed there to look like he knows what it's going on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: fegel

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery Dog, do you really want reasons that badly that you're going to put a vote on me?
I didn't add them because I'm lazy quite honestly, but if you want me to, I can.

Why do you think I asked.
Without the full level of reasons, I see the list as just a fluff post and scum wanting to seem town.

[Cheery Dog]

OK, in order to sastify your needs Cheery, I will post my reasons (it's funny that you think Bacde is Town for the very same offence)

Bacde hasn't posted a readlist and neither have I, and you just keep generalizing your way out of things.
A few unexplainied reads are nothing compared to a whole list of

ordered

reads.

Wait, what is this Red Drgon case on YOLO that's effecting those two reads? There's nothing in his ISO that even resembles a case on YOLO unless wanting someone on L-2 is that serious?

Reason?

Scum motivation everywhere

[Cheery Dog]

Reason?

Scum motivation everywhere

Specifics?

Is me highlighting and giving stuff in the same style as what I've given previously going to change your mind about Feg?
Because I find just reading through and looking for his scum motivation which is there (almost every post my gut tells me it is, so it must be) should help you better than listening to me ramble on.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery Dog, does fegelein giving his reasons on his list change your mind on him? Because with all the time you spent on him early in the game, I would have expected to see a more...complete case on him for your vote.

I'm lazy with case making, can't you see that by the fact I just linked his ISO?
My vote on him is staying until the end of today, the reasons and other stuff he posted with them doesn't make them any more town.

@Ankamius, I don't know what the point on chillkid in #76 is, seeing as I can't find me having one on him in that post.

#90 was trying to get something out of cowbells so he actually defends. I don't remember the actual case, but since some of it had to do with not having an avatar (chillkid), there was no reason that cowbells should have been admitting defeat.

[Cheery Dog]

Fine :effort: time you get the posts I believe are the major souces of the scum motivation. Spoilered so that a post I haven't responded to yet and not forming the major scum motivations is separated out from the other posts.
If you do read his ISO there are also

Spoiler:

It seems as if our game has stagnated already, so let's change that.

RVS is getting us nowhere at this moment in time, so I'm going to provide a question for us all to answer.

What do you think of chillkid's #32?

Personally, I think it's a town tell, as he does raise a good point. Just look at some of the past newbie games, there has been amazing newbie scum, and we shouldn't avoid scrutinizing someone because they are new.

I'm not out of RVS at this stage, because as far as I can see, there are no scum tells in my eyes. qwints's RVS play is a little suspicious, but I'm probably looking too deep into it. I'd quite like it if people answer my question though.

Sorry if you think that I'm taking the start of the game so seriously, I'm just seeing that people aren't getting the ball rolling here, so I've decided to do it myself.

This is stil a problem with me that hasn't actually been cleared up that much and still reads like a forceful attempt to move us out of RVS quickly rather than slowly which I believe is scum motivatied by restricting the speed at which we're coming out and as such an over-attempt for early town points.

Notes on YOLO from his ISO:
Asks some decent questions early game (probably why I got a town read on him early game)
Don't like the bandwagon on RadiantCowbells, without much reasoning thrown behind it.
Flip-flops on RC, but only after his viewpoint on a defeatist attitude, but that's weak in itself.
Votes SAS for no real reason. Says he is out of RVS. We were out of RVS ages ago, and he had posted after RVS ended.
Gut feeling, don't like the RC lynch reason.
His explanation on SAS is interesting, not scummy though.
Good question to Bacde.
Why did he not state his main reason in his first post? Really looks contrived and made up on the spot.
If he was mixed on the RC wagon, then why did he wagon him? Don't vote people for information that late in, go with your scumreads.
Says Norfolk makes a good policy lynch. Ehh, null tell to me.
He says all his content is serious. That include his RVS vote reason? I don't know, going to remain unbiased on this.
Not sold on his reply to qwints. Seems to not be keen on defending his townreads, which might mean a concern about appearances (scared about defending someone, as that too may make him look scummy). I really can't get my head around the rest of it.
Disagree with his point on wagons, it just leads to disarray and disorientation.
chillkid vote reasoning is a little lacking.

Overall, his reasoning is fairly weak, and I wouldn't be opposed to voting him. It's just I have a gut feeling he might be Town at this moment in time, as he has brought up a few good points and valid questions. Plus I have stronger scum reads anyway.

MrBump, while the votes themselves aren't reasoned that great, I can see why votes might be placed on YOLO at this moment in time.

And I agree with you on RC. In fact, his inactivity leads me to believe he is scummier than he was before. I believe he is active on site, unless he forgot about this game.

My suspicion of Fegel had died down a bit and I ended up voting chillkid a few pages before this beauty came out which resparked by scumread on him (why I was considering going back at #355 if anyone noticed that)

Anyway the problem here is the sudden interest in where the wagons are and grabbing the opportunity to be present and commented on the wagon - he also did this slightly with the chillkid wagon, mostly to call them town (nothing really happened with cowbells, could be buddies - I could be persuaded to lynch there today, but I think feg's a better lynch).
This is telling me that he is after towncred as scum for being around with the easy targets. He has then chosen the hard mislynch targets (me/bacde/probably qwintz) to attack.

Just to going to show everyone my list I made:
TOWN
MrBump
Ztife
Red Dragon
Secret Agent Sloth
don_johnson
RadiantCowbells
penguin_alien
Om of the Nom
Cheery Dog
Bacde
evilpacman18 (for YOLO's play really, waiting for him to respond)
qwints
SCUM

I had a really tough time ranking everyone from Don to Om.

Large "look I'm helping stuff" post, really doesn't help and the reasoned version is just simple lists and still doesn't actually help. It's still a factor that the list was made without reasons orginially, meaning he likely didn't want to actually use it on stuff, rather just use it to "show he is town".
Another note to be had here is the YOLO being second bottom without any mentions from the above where YOLO was being wagoned and Feg felt YOLO was likely town.

(it's funny that you think Bacde is Town for the very same offence)

This type of defence, trying to distract his attackers by pointing out other people are doing the same thing, even though they're not, it's a sign of being caught for what they believe is the wrong reasons and a last ditch effort to avoid getting lynched.

Cheery, your case against me is quite frankly pathetic.

I don't think you realise the severity of your lynch here. This is going to decide my fate in this game. It's not a little harmless RVS vote, or a reaction test vote, this is a hellbent "I'm quite sure he's scum" vote. And...you're using it on me with the reasoning "He has scum motivation"

That's incredibly sloppy.

In fact, from what I've seen, you've made every attempt to start a lynch on me/start a bandwagon with very poor reasoning each time. The first time was for semi-ending RVS, now it's for my ISO? Point out what parts of my ISO are suspicious, and I will do my best to defend them. To just say "Scum Motivation" is quite honestly poor.

And look, I've said I'm lazy, you've said you're lazy, and yet, I'm scum, and you're not because of that?

Yes I'm aware your lynch means we get a scum dead day 1. I'm sorry if you don't like being told I can read through you're faked motivations, but they're there and that's not going to change. I don't really mind what your fate is besides having a dead scum.

oh no being sloppy is a scum tell panic! Yeah telling me I'm not putting 100% effort into bothering to redescribe reasons I believe as obvious totally helps. That's practically all of your case on everyone you're attacking.

You're not going to convince me that I'm reading my own role pm wrong, why are you attempting to convince me by comparing apples to oranges?

btw the only defence I'm possibly going to pay any attention to you from this case is about what changed with your YOLO read from #329 to #430.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery, how are you and Bacde easy targets? And why is qwints only possibly?

That seems like a scum slip.

I'll respond to the bulk of your post later.

I never said bacde/i were easy targets, I said yolo and chillkid were the easy targets.
Qwintz I'm not as convinced is town.
If you actually read I said we were

hard

[Cheery Dog]

...And I was the person saying that chillkid was a scapegoat?

Yes, I know I didn't quote it, but it's in the same section you're talking about and my reasons why i think it makes you scum.

[Cheery Dog]

Well early congrats to the fegel/cowbells/ztife team then.

[Cheery Dog]

For the people who don't want to wait up to 2 hours, I was a vt.

[Cheery Dog]

Wait we somehow won this?

I probably did overkill the we're going to lose speech or whatever I was doing in the dead thread, but my lynch still sucked.

At least one person I called out during my twilight scumreads list was scum - and it does make sense that it was the person I hadn't connected to Feg. (also you lynched all the people on that list + red dragon after me, so I must have had some input).
don_j was the only person making any logic yesterday, sucked when he ended up hammering RC. (and yes RC's play was horrible I agree - but he was still practically confirmed town.

[Cheery Dog]

I came up with calling you a traitor after you mentioned OM the night after he died.

So whatever a few posts after the mention of you wanting to vote Om.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm not really going to try and make excuse for my calling Om scum. I legitimately thought Penguin died overnight. I'm pretty retarded.

Also yeah, thanks for running the game and taking my quote failures in good spirits, 2birds =D

That point was the only bit that actually told me you were town. I think I started going overboard somewhere - but then I was also expecting 3 scum.