Mini 1446, Generic Mafia (Game Over)

[Fegelein]

VOTE: Hoopla

Sounds too much like Hordak, who was an evil guy.

[Fegelein]

VOTE: Hoopla

Sounds too much like Hordak, who was an evil guy.

actually, horus is probably a closer match.

scum found.

VOTE: fegelein

Nobody messes with an Egyptian Deity.

Also, Hoopla is 6 letters, Horus is 5.

[Fegelein]

Well it seems like we're out of RVS.

UNVOTE: Hoopla

Looking at RVS, I personally find Penmar the most suspicious therefore...

VOTE: Penmar

[Fegelein]

...wow, I was thinking of Venmar at the same time LMAO.
VOTE: Palmar

[Fegelein]

Well it seems like we're out of RVS.

UNVOTE: Hoopla

Looking at RVS, I personally find Penmar the most suspicious therefore...

VOTE: Penmar

Intriguing. Please elaborate, you may just earn my vote.

Third on a bandwagon, voted before Ank self-voted, and he even though he disapproves of RVS, he continues to do so, as if he has to.

[Fegelein]

To be fair, Horus has a point here.

With the people on Horus's wagon, I think that Zhero is the most likely to be scum because third vote, and barely any contributions.

HD could also be scum too, he's lurking far too much for him.

Keeping my vote on Palmar until he responds to my accusations.

[Fegelein]

I still expect a little more from you, you're active in SOHV.

[Fegelein]

With the people on Horus's wagon, I think that Zhero is the most likely to be scum because third vote, and barely any contributions.

you're going to have to start qualifying this third vote thing you keep saying.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ding_Mafia

[Fegelein]

Null tell, leans scum.

[Fegelein]

Please give reasoning, thanks.

[Fegelein]

Except I'm voting him when Palmar gives me a valid explanation.

[Fegelein]

With the people on Horus's wagon, I think that Zhero is the most likely to be scum because third vote, and barely any contributions.

I thought Zhero was scum anyway.

[Fegelein]

Except I'm voting him when Palmar gives me a valid explanation.

Both your cases are silly, so there's not really a 'valid explanation', but the way you say 'when' instead of 'if' really feels like you know Palmar's alignment.

Doubling down on your read of me when called out also feels overdefensive.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fegelein

As opposed to what? "If Palmar gives me an explanation" implies there's a chance he won't. If he doesn't then he will probably be lynched. That's ridiculous semantics.

Because someone refusing to answer queries is always Town!!!1121

[Fegelein]

Well it seems like we're out of RVS.

UNVOTE: Hoopla

Looking at RVS, I personally find Penmar the most suspicious therefore...

VOTE: Penmar

Intriguing. Please elaborate, you may just earn my vote.

Third on a bandwagon, voted before Ank self-voted, and he even though he disapproves of RVS, he continues to do so, as if he has to.

Disagreeing with a method does not mean shunning it. As has been evident by my involvement in the game so far I wouldn't have had the time to pursue one of my preferred ways of getting the game going, along with probably teaching them to a crowd that's used to the RVS. And the RVS does at least does the trick, even if I find it leaves the least amount of information of any methods I know to start a game of mafia off.

I would be more than willing to explain my position on the RVS, provide examples and explanations if anyone is intrigued, but that would be for outside of the game.

That post seems genuine and town in my opinion, just based off gut.

Going over to my strongest scum read now.

UNVOTE: Palmar
VOTE: Zhero

For reasons I posted earlier.

On my phone btw.

[Fegelein]

Well it seems like we're out of RVS.

UNVOTE: Hoopla

Looking at RVS, I personally find Penmar the most suspicious therefore...

VOTE: Penmar

Intriguing. Please elaborate, you may just earn my vote.

Third on a bandwagon, voted before Ank self-voted, and he even though he disapproves of RVS, he continues to do so, as if he has to.

Disagreeing with a method does not mean shunning it. As has been evident by my involvement in the game so far I wouldn't have had the time to pursue one of my preferred ways of getting the game going, along with probably teaching them to a crowd that's used to the RVS. And the RVS does at least does the trick, even if I find it leaves the least amount of information of any methods I know to start a game of mafia off.

I would be more than willing to explain my position on the RVS, provide examples and explanations if anyone is intrigued, but that would be for outside of the game.

That post seems genuine and town in my opinion, just based off gut.

Going over to my strongest scum read now.

UNVOTE: Palmar
VOTE: Zhero

For reasons I posted earlier.

On my phone btw.

Of the three posts I wrote, this one should be the least towny looking to you if you were actually analyzing their contents. The only relevant point to this game is that I simply said that disagreeing with a method doesn't mean shunning it. The rest of my post has nothing that can even come close to revealing my alignment.

I would think my point about zhero and my townread on horus would provide a much stronger basis for you to form an opinion on my alignment.

Incidentally I don't think Zhero is a good lynch based on what I mentioned how he's at least reading the game in detail. That makes two bad wagons you have been on, and neither of them with particularly good reasoning.

My problem is not that you backed off the wagon on me, that's sensible, my problem is that you did it in the most lazy and apathetic way, and gave the absolute lowest amount of reasons you seem to think you could get away with. It's not what you did, but how you did it.

VOTE: Fegelein

So you measure how towny your own posts are? That seems very odd, why would you need to do that as town? Also, yes, I'll freely admit that I didn't really read your other 2 posts as carefully, but that's mainly because I saw your first defence as satisfactory for an unvote, as I had Zhero as another scum read.

I have to say though, looking closer, your points on HD are strong, although it strikes me as a minor chainsaw defence, attacking HD for attacking Zhero. I agree with the main point of your post though: One player cannot vouch for the feelings of another.

Why were you a bad wagon at that time, bearing in mind this was before you explained? Also, just because Zhero is reading the game in detail does not make him Town. It doesn't make anyone more Town. In fact, scum are far more likely to be immersed into the game itself instead of lurking. Scum love to manipulate.

I was on the phone at the time. I couldn't make a big post on it, and I'd just be parroting my own reasons, so I will refer you back to my original argument.



Your second post seems scummy though. What it comes across as is that you thought of another possible point against me, and just added it to reinforce your argument. Also, why the hell would I keep my vote on someone that provided a good defence?

[Fegelein]

Three times in the post above you throw soft suspicion at me. Do you think I'm scum? If so just come out and say it?

I want you to explain your last paragraph. What would you do if you were town and thought of a point against someone? Not post it? Why is it only scum who add points to their arguments when they think of them?

I have a null read on you, very hit and miss.

Also, it's mainly how you did it. Your reasoning was very poor, and it came across to me as not a new, genuine point, but an attempt to push my wagon further.

@ CES: And what do you think scum try to make out that they are doing?

[Fegelein]

I quote:
"Also, why the hell would I keep my vote on someone that provided a good defence?"

[Fegelein]

Bacde's play correlates with his most recent Town meta for your information. Won't go into detail, because I am still alive in that game.

[Fegelein]

JS, I've played a game with scum Beast (although he was new), and he was playing very much like this (attempting to act reasonable and pro-town)

I'm starting to find CES's play a tad bit suspicious, I personally had a null read on him before, but he is not my strongest scum read.

[Fegelein]

I can see TSO as Scum too, not my main scum read.

At the moment, It's Beast. I honestly think that he's taking a backseat here, avoiding pressure and just trying too hard to convince people that he's Town. Looking at his ISO, he has me as a scumread, yet he refuses to vote me. It correlates with his little posting, big posts as to me, over cautious scum, who is being careful where they tread.
Therefore,
VOTE: BeastCharizard

Responding to points made against me now.

[Fegelein]

Please, tell me what reeks. I'll discuss.

"Fegelein's #140 is so fence-sitty it hurts. Palmar makes good points against HD and he agrees with the main point, but it also strikes him as a chainsaw defense. Then later he asks why he'd keep a vote on someone that provided a good defense even though he attributed the vote switch to gut. No."

Yeah, I agree with the main point, but it still came off as a chainsaw defence. Problem? I don't get your second point, explain it better, thanks.

[Fegelein]

JS, I've played a game with scum Beast (although he was new), and he was playing very much like this (attempting to act reasonable and pro-town)

What is this in response to?

Just a thought I thought I'd bring up. Which led to me ISOing Beast, which led to me voting him.

[Fegelein]

What Bacde said

[Fegelein]

You go and do something that I said would make you more Towny. That simply does not work.

As for a reply to your post.

Fegelein, i didn't know being town oriented meant I was a scum tell. I surely don't understand this game if that is true.

Also, just because I don't jump on a wagon means I am scum as well? You really need to figure out how to play this game and let me know the rules you would like me to play by. If you want me to talk more or whatever just let me know. Of course that would be helping the town more so it will probably just be a bigger scum tell to you.

I explained why i didn't vote you even though I would be behind your lynch. You are using other games as logic a lot this game. Games are not all connected to my knowledge and if they are then that is a long stretch from that game to this game. I would appreciate if you didn't base your vote off of my just because I played pro-town as scum in another game. Maybe I am playing pro-town as I don't know, a town person? It isn't that much of a stretch. You are just searching for broken reasons to vote someone and it is obvious.

VOTE: Fegelein Since you wanted it so badly you have it. I am completely convinced you are scum based on your faulty logic and your not actually paying attention to this game and only focusing on games that have long since been over.

The problem is, you're trying too hard, and it's fairly obvious to me. Yes, I know I'm using your newbie game meta from PO, but it does seem to correlate quite strongly. The point is, you're giving me scum vibes.

I'm not saying that you're scum for sure, I don't know that. I'm saying that you are my strongest scum read. You seem to have it in your head that I'm labelling you as 100% confirmed scum. Also, I am not saying helping the Town is scummy. To me though, you seem overly cautious and overly reasonable. But now your game style flips around as soon as you get the slightest bit of pressure? Suspicious.

I can agree with you that Meta is a somewhat shaky argument, but that doesn't discredit it as an argument altogether. My vote on you is not just based off Meta, it's based off you being overly cautious and refusing to put a vote on a scum read of yours (until you were prompted, which makes it worse). Also, how are my reasons broken?

You're voting me because I used Meta as an argument, "faulty logic", and me not paying attention to the game (?). . Hmm, that sudden change in pace is noted.

[Fegelein]

I'd be willing to vote TSO, minor scum vibes, but I'm going to wait, just in case the direction of the lynch changes.

[Fegelein]

Prod em all, we need more activity.

[Fegelein]

Judging by that Bacde-roflcopter chat, unless it was (very unlikely) co-ordinated, I see the pair of them as Town.

[Fegelein]

I need to look at this CES case, it seems interesting enough.

[Fegelein]

To be perfectly honest, I get minor scum vibes from both TSO and CES.

Let me iso the pair of them before I go on.

[Fegelein]

After reading CES, he comes across as bland and emotionless, therefore he sticks in the minor scum tell department. I honestly think he should be doing more to help the Village, though he could be bored Townie.

Reading TSO now.

[Fegelein]

TSO seems confrontational, and the case against Horus earlier was pretty poor. Moving his minor scum read to moderate. I'll be happy to vote him over CES.

UNVOTE: BeastCharizard
VOTE: TSO

I still think BeastCharizard is likely scum though.

[Fegelein]

Come on guys, get active. We need to make a decision.

[Fegelein]

@roflcopter:
Didn't you say I was scumbuddies with Zhero earlier though? Or was that just early reads?

[Fegelein]

IFM, HD, Horus, Zhero, Palmar, Beast

All of you need opinions on the most recent events.

I get a null read from TSO's most recent post. On one hand, could be a "save my bacon" vote on CES, on the other, he makes a good point about the naked vote and Town awards. As a counter argument, perhaps CES is a little bored of the game at hand?

I want to hear more from TSO and CES before a final verdict is made.

[Fegelein]

And you're the best wagon according to 5 people? One of them has to be Town. Don't hold yourself in such high regard.

[Fegelein]

I'm considering changing to CES here because of his recent play.

Thoughts?

[Fegelein]

I'll do it. His behaviour explaining his playstyles as certain faction is just theory, and the TSO post had some good points about him.

So:
UNVOTE: TSO
VOTE: CES

CES, I urge you to claim now.

[Fegelein]

I see no reason to claim at this point.

His behaviour explaining his playstyles as certain faction is just theory

There's nothing theory to it. I know my play perfectly well and there's oodles of meta of me available to you.

What good points did TSO have?

Then you'll be coincidentally removed from the game. Also, that makes you look scummier.

What's to stop you bsing this game though? WIFOM, but it's food for thought.

#305

[Fegelein]

Looks like we either have a Vigilante or a third-party.

Personally, I want to look through Ankamius's behaviour and see if they distanced themselves from anyone during the last day. This might allow us to scumhunt efficiently.

[Fegelein]

Roflcopter's posts are pretty town. Hoopla's posts read town. CES is leaning town. That said, I like my vote where it is.

[Fegelein]

Forgot to add this, but that likely means rofl is Town.

[Fegelein]

Inf, why do you feel HD is Town? He's been lurking far too much, where as Town, he tends to become a centre of attention.

Not to mention that Ank kind of distanced themselves from them.

[Fegelein]

BTW, my read on Infinity seems to be Town, natural posting, scumhunting, etc.

I'll start by putting my vote on:
VOTE: BeastCharizard

For reasons stated Day 1.

[Fegelein]

Ehh, your analysis seems natural enough, and there's a lot of points I agree with.

[Fegelein]

There's no wonder Hoopla died then. I have to agree with you on TSO and Zhero.

I feel more confident putting my vote on Zhero though, he kept trying to reinforce the point that I was scum, when it was Ankamius doing all the talking. It came across as backseat enforcing.

UNVOTE: Beast
VOTE: Zhero

[Fegelein]

Votecount 1.12

Cognito Ergo Sum [7]

- roflcopter, Bacde, Human Destroyer, Hoopla, T S O, Fegelein, Horus -

LYNCHED

T S O [4]

- IFM, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zhero, Ankamius

Fegelein [1]

- Palmar

Not Voting [1]

- BeastCharizard

With 13 alive, it takes

7

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2013-05-08 13:03:53)

[/i][/area]

Infinity 324 replaces IFM.

actually this VC doesn't support Zhero being scum :/

I mean its possible but unlikely

it doesn't really support it nor refute it to be honest

I agree with this, but at least it proves he's not opportunistic scum. He might have bussed TSO to earn towncred, but that's going into the theory zone.

[Fegelein]

Infinity is probably town, and TSO is still the best vote. His CES vote was pretty opportunistic, and Ank's vote on him at the end of the day looks like a bus to me.

VOTE: TSO

And yours didn't?

[Fegelein]

Infinity, why so flip-floppity? I thought I was a null read, now I'm your second highest scum read?

[Fegelein]

TSO's really being opportunistic at the moment, stating he'll jump on the largest wagon today, while also jumping on the largest wagon yesterday that wasn't him to save his bacon.

[Fegelein]

I've actually never been scum on site.

In fact, my only scum game was off-site, and it was an OC game. I was still a newb then, but I got Inspector voted off.

http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthr ... a-Postgame

[Fegelein]

TSO made a really good point about HD, although he could be lazytown. Giving me slightly less of a scum read on TSO.

[Fegelein]

That post was horrific, you used 66% of it to attack TSO instead of defend yourself.

[Fegelein]

That post was horrific, you used 66% of it to attack TSO instead of defend yourself.

No.
TSO said that the reading was not concrete.
I explained to him that basic mafia theory proves it IS concrete.
That's...defending my reasoning.

Although, out of interest, why would it be bad if I actually attacked TSO? Y'know, the guy I happen to be scumreading?

Oh, I thought you were calling TSO out for faking his post and then calling it Mafia 101. Misunderstood.

I'm not saying it's bad to be attacking, I just get suspicious of people attacking someone that is attacking them, it comes across as overly territorial.

[Fegelein]

Which games did you read?

[Fegelein]

Ugh, generally losing interest in the game. Someone present the case against Horus here.

[Fegelein]

I can see a Horus/Beast scum team at the moment.

Really need to get in the mindset of the game, far too much posting going on. But I'll be kind of happy to jump on the Horus wagon, it just sort of died early on.

[Fegelein]

It seems many of us are in agreement that Horus is scum...apart from Beast...who Horus called Town...and I have a scum read on Beast anyway.

If there is a cop, please inspect the following:
If Horus flips Town: Either Zhero or TSO, should claim if there is a scum result on them as there is likely a BG/Doctor.
If Horus flips Scum: Beast

Also, I think Infinity is likely Town, his play is too high-risk for scum in my eyes.

UNVOTE: Zhero
VOTE: Horus

I see no reason to delay the day when the majority of the game are in agreement that Horus is scum.

[Fegelein]

In my personal view, his gameplay does not correlate with regular Doctor gameplay, so I'm going to call it unlikely. Doctors/BG's tend to hang under the radar a bit.

Also, why are you going to kill me if he flips Town? Are you setting up your next lynch already? Bearing in mind you led us on this lynch in the first place.

[Fegelein]

VOTE: BeastCharizard

With Horus's scum flip, there's little doubt that Beast is probably the guy to complete the team of Ankamius and Horus. Also, as I've said, he's been far too cautious.

Now, the question remains: Was that kill of Ankamius a Vigi shot or a third-party role?

[Fegelein]

I caught scum in my first newbie game too, although I had a stronger scum read on a Townie .

Anyway, let's hold back until the neighbour claims. REMEMBER THAT THE NEIGHBOUR COULD STILL BE MAFIA.

[Fegelein]

Your so called defence was an attack on me and Inf. Do try again.

Also, you're terrified to throw a vote down on scum reads unless prompted. Coupled with the fact that you kept apart from Ank and Horus got a town read on you, you're the most likely scum here today.

[Fegelein]

Who exactly had beef with Ankamius though during Day 1? I don't think the Vigi would just randkill, which makes me think it may be third-party.

[Fegelein]

I've seen Beast Town, and it really doesn't correlate with his current play. He's not afraid to put down a vote as Town.

[Fegelein]

I am not getting the roflcopter bandwagon, he's been fairly consistent and Town throughout the game. Albeit a little lazy, but that's something I've been guilty of in the past.

Beast still remains the best lynch. Just because Horus called Beast obv-Town doesn't make him not scum. In fact, that's a WIFOM defence of Beast's actions, which is therefore a paradox, therefore equalling a null tell.

Getting some minor scum vibes from Infinity setting up lynch targets, as if he's pulling our strings a little. Doesn't displace my town read on him.

[Fegelein]

Beast still remains the best lynch. Just because Horus called Beast obv-Town doesn't make him not scum. In fact, that's a WIFOM defence of Beast's actions, which is therefore a paradox, therefore equalling a null tell.

But that's what it felt like to me. ISO beast+ank+horus please

I've had first hand experience of Beast being scum and fooling me in LYLO. It correlates with his current gameplay.

Also, I'll throw my hat in and say I am not Vigi.

[Fegelein]

WOAH.

STOP RIGHT THERE.

BACDE DID NOT TRY TO KILL INFINITY.

[Fegelein]

WOAH.

STOP RIGHT THERE.

BACDE DID NOT TRY TO KILL INFINITY.

[Fegelein]

UNVOTE: BeastCharizard
VOTE: Bacde

I AM THE TOWN BODYGUARD. I DIE IF THE PERSON I PROTECTED IS ATTACKED.

I PROTECTED INFINITY NIGHT 2.

[Fegelein]

[Fegelein]

Also, I'm not understanding why Bacde just randomly claimed.

[Fegelein]

What if he is X-Shot?

I assume that means BG has a higher priority protect than Doctor.

[Fegelein]

Targetted by a kill, no. Palmar's claim is still solid in that regard.

[Fegelein]

Roflcopter's posts are pretty town. Hoopla's posts read town. CES is leaning town. That said, I like my vote where it is.

Remember this?

[Fegelein]

I'm going off now. Do what you see fit Town.

[Fegelein]

He's either telling the truth and he's SK, or he's lying, and he's Mafia. It's a win-win situation.

[Fegelein]

OK then.

VOTE: Palmar

[Fegelein]

Wow, that turned out to be one of my better games. I guess my gut instinct reads were the best lmao.

Horus and Palmar, you did especially well to slip under my radar after my attack on you. In the end, you just got caught off guard.

Also I am best BG.