Mini 1439 -- Game Over

[Red Dragon]

/confirm
sloths are evil:

vote:secret agent sloth

[Red Dragon]

.mrifnoc\

Vote: Red Dragon

I'm Buffy, the Dragon slayer!

you are a cowbell, your argument is invalid.

[Red Dragon]

Vote: Red Dragon

Larry Elmore or Hannibal Lector?

~P

both.

RVS is getting us nowhere at this moment in time, so I'm going to provide a question for us all to answer.

No.

But decent question that I won't answer because of this:

vote: bcade.

For some reason seems to be against contributing. He seems to be like, "No, I won't scum hunt and you can't make me". He has come out and said it, but I get that vibe off of him. Basically unwillingness to play for a town win con.

Fegelein wagon is crap and has built up for no reason.

That's how I normally respond to points.

No one likes it. It is hard to read.

I don't have enough leads to leave RVS.

I'm just putting the vote down to keep things moving.
And see? I did just that. Discussion has been created!

OKAY!

Also, Ztife's reaction seems way out of proportion.
I think you should explain why you're so enraged by a simple throwaway vote this early in the game.

Vote: Ztife

Isn't that strange.

[Red Dragon]

Oh well, someone has to be d1 lynch.

damn, so defeatist on a d1 rvs wagon? Yeah, cowbels wagon has scum on it for sure.

Yeah, cowbels wagon is shitty.

[Red Dragon]

The logic of this wagon is so bad I don't feel any further justification is required.

It would be like trying to refute the statement I think, therefore I am not.

It's just not done.

good point, your wagon is just shit.

This RadiantCowbells wagon piques my interest.

Unvote. Vote: RadiantCowbells

L-2.

elaboration, man. Don't just hop on a wagon saying it "piques your interest".

There's nothing to elaborate on. I liked the wagon, so I hopped on. As a response, RadiantCowbells shows a very defeatist attitude to this early L-2 wagon. After taking a quick peep at some of his other games, I don't think this is faked. In other words, RadiantCowbells is town.

Unvote. Vote: Secret Agent Slot

Serious vote. I'm out of RVS.

Yeah, this makes no sense.

[Red Dragon]

@RedDragon
Who do you think are possible scums on the Cowbell wagon?

yolo
possibly bcade

vote: yolo

No, I joined that wagon because I wanted to see it go to L-2. In other words, I did not join because I was convinced of RC's scummyness, but because I thought a big RC wagon could give us some information. It did (in my opinion).

this couldn't possibly be scummy in any way. There is no way on earth that this could possibly be opportunistic.

I wanted to see how he would respond

mhhhm

[Red Dragon]

Oh well, someone has to be d1 lynch.

damn, so defeatist on a d1 rvs wagon? Yeah, cowbels wagon has scum on it for sure.

Yeah, cowbels wagon is shitty.

This really looks like you are saying Cowbells is town because of his defeatist attitude. Are you trying to say that?

~P

No, I'm simply saying that his wagon is unfounded and the people on it should place there vote more productively. Also, l-2 on a shite wagon? does that no raise an eyebrow?

We are, what 5 pages into the game? There are no certain town or certain cum reads. But cow is slightly towny at best to flat out null at worst in my opinion.

But, to the point of being defeatist... In my opinion this is a double edged sword. On one hand we have the fact that the scum MUST stay alive in order to win. There is a direct correlation between not getting lynched and winning the game. So from that standpoint cowbell is town.

But, if you look at it from another direction... it reads as null. Firstly scum knows that the town knows that they need to stay alive. Therefore, cow could be faking his defeatism in order to feign townieness. It is also worth noting that his wagon would have been a great opportunity to start a counter wagon on someone on his own wagon. He could have scumhunted more from his wagon. Naturally this is all wifom.

Conclusion: Too early to tell

@bcade, right now, it is too early for me to call out scum teams. Jesus, what do you expect? 100 posts in and have everyone nailed? Right, now instead of association tells are zero to none. Right now, go for general scum reads until we at least get some hard core buddying going on or a flip.



Also, how many fucking hydras are in this damn game?

[Red Dragon]

Defeatist attitude is scummy, straight up. It's AtE, WIFOM and insanely anti-town.

except that it directly contradicts the scums win condition. It is impossible to reconcile

genuine

defeatism, this early with being scum.

I fail to see why having a player that actively hurts Town alive is good. I'd much rather lynch him being likely scum than anyone else in the game atm. Having difficulty get reads.

The theoretical situation could be that all but one of the town are exhibiting anti-town behavior, and thus by lynching all anti-town the town would lose the game.

Keep in mind, that if we don't lynch scum whoever is pro or anti town doesn't matter. The scums are key.

[Red Dragon]

don't buy it. Happy with my yolo vote.

[Red Dragon]

@YOLO

-

Re: Ferg

: Personally null on Ferg, so going with Ven's read.

@Red Dragon

- Whenever a post like that appears, you basically have to gauge the sincerity of it. If I think they are sincere, then I usually have them as town. If I have doubts, then I usually have them as scum. Otherwise, it IS a null tell. I wanted to see if you had made a determination, since (91) said there was scum on the Cowbell wagon, and it was a bad wagon, making it sound like Cowbell=town.
Do you see my confusion?

Still null for me.

[Red Dragon]

I just don't understand the wagon at all, he's pretty much the only one actively trying to scumhunt while everyone else sits around twiddling their thumbs and going "WAGON TIME" before hopping off when someone says "i ain't scum"

pretty much this.

Come with me on the guy who just wanted to see l-2.

[Red Dragon]

No, I joined that wagon because

I wanted to see it go to L-2.

In other words, I did not join because I was convinced of RC's scummyness, but because I thought a big RC wagon could give us some information. It did (in my opinion).

gg. Lynch scum.

[Red Dragon]

I'd say it is, it just seems too high-risk to be a scum move.

...So you didn't bother to read the rest of the thread, and just used RVS to determine your tells.

Tell me, how is that helpful?

This pretty wine in front of me right here. Also it bugs me that you go out of your way to defend someone. It reeks of "team scum" play. He doesn't answer a question, so why do you feel compelled to answer it for him (or defend him in his place).

I still like my yolo vote, but if things develop more I might be persuaded to change my vote.

[Red Dragon]

I still don't like the idea of taking questions for other people. Seems like it hurts scumhunting more than helps. Therefore, I am still specious.

[Red Dragon]

I still don't like the idea of taking questions for other people. Seems like it hurts scumhunting more than helps. Therefore, I am still specious.

As long as the person to whom the question was originally intended also answers it, it's good because it's just more info.

except that it allows coaching and obstructs scum hunting. Yeah you get more information but that info is contaminated.

[Red Dragon]

Seriously rethinking my fegelein scum read. GOGO YOLO.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: YOLO

what becade said.

[Red Dragon]

RD, what is your read on the other half of the people in the game that you haven't mentioned. I've noticed you're very selective in who you talk about >_>

null on everybody I don't mention. What am I supposed to say???? just a mega list of "he is null" "he is null" "He is also null" serves no point other than to waste perfectly good space.

[Red Dragon]

Did you ever think to get a read on them instead of just keeping them as null? Are you just not getting any feelings either way or are they conflicting feelings?

YES BECAUSE BAD READS WILL MOST CERTAINLY WIN US THE GAME. I would rather have solid reads than a bunch of shit. Wouldn't you?

UNVOTE: Bacde
VOTE: qwints

I want you guys to ISO him, and you will see how keen he is to jump onto vote bandwagons, and with little detail as to why. He's dramatically slipping under the radar here.

Can I just say that I find the idea of "dramatically slipping under the radar" amusing? I'm picturing Catherine Zeta-Jones in Entrapment.

Where are the YOLO votes?

Right here. Yolo is still one of my top suspects. The wagon fell apart for no reason at all. Someone who just wants to see someone else get to l-1 should get to l-1 themselves.

BUMP v Nom is just a bunch of noise. Don't really buy the bump case atm.

Why's YOLO on L-3 now?

Because he is really really scummy.

TIL Om can't be scum because he is active, but that logic does not apply to me.

Activity is meaningless. I have seen scum lurk. I have seen town lurk. I have seen active town. I have seen active scum. Content is what matters.

TIL Om can't be scum because he is active, but that logic does not apply to me.

Who is calling Om not scum because he is active?

Himself.

Its called self-meta.

HERE WE GO WITH THE SELF META DEFENSE. Anyone who self metas is dumb. Meta as a defense is bullshit. I could go for an om wagon on this actually. I really could. Self meta is so scummy. Because it basically says "hay guys... I'm manipulating things to look townie. PLZ BELIVE ME I'M TOWN fo Sures." Yeah, om is scummy and deserves a wagon.

Ohh cool qwints agrees with me.

vote: om the nom

Don johnsn is a buddy that will have to be investigated further.

[Red Dragon]

I respond with this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4848142

irrelevant example because in this case someone asked you for it. Here you were basically... "yeah I'm town guys because here is my meta". There are serious problems with that line of reasoning.

[Red Dragon]

Its called self-meta.

OM is 100% guaranteed scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Om of the Nom

I take it you haven't seen Om in action before if you're that confident.

and we have another purely meta defense.

I respond with this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4848142

irrelevant example because in this case someone asked you for it. Here you were basically... "yeah I'm town guys because here is my meta". There are serious problems with that line of reasoning.

Because I can't have been asked for it if I hadn't used self-meta at all in the game before.

Except that you are sort of hiding behind self meta right now.

Yeah, I'm really cool with an om lynch. After he flips we go for don or cheery in case of scum flip.

[Red Dragon]

Don johnsn is a buddy that will have to be investigated further.

i prefer the term "sidekick".

p-edit: fegel, join us...

note this is a buddy claim.

[Red Dragon]

yeah, I'm really happy with my om vote. Flailing scum is flailing scum. Anyway, time to do real work.

[Red Dragon]

Self-meta never has and never will be a scum tell regardless of the person comitting it. I've almost never seen it come from scum.

Self meta is always scummy. I have never seen town use it ever. Really really happy with this vote. COme one guys lets shoo shoo this bitch.

yeah, I'm really happy with my om vote. Flailing scum is flailing scum. Anyway, time to do real work.

Please point out the flail to me

as one townie to another

since I don't see it but would love to be convinced :3

His recent posts have been all over the place. Hyper defensive. The veil of scumhunting has been dropped at this point. Lynch ho mates!

But seriously wow that is a fucking terrible vote from both of you. Get your shit together or just stop trying because it's really hurting my eyes.

=OMGUS!

You caught me for the wrong reason, whah!

DITTO

since, ya know, Om also does that as town

I bet Om does it as scum though

He is taking advantage if this meta to lead us to think he is town. This is why meta is dangerous to base stuff off of because the person know his own meta. OM basically came out and said: "here is my meta, it is consistent with my town play. Follow me you bitches."

[Red Dragon]

If there's one thing that I will never let happen, it would be for me to be lynched because I'm using self-meta. I will defend my position on it and I will defend it as hard as I possibly can.

I can't think of any games right now

where I self-meta as scum but I can guarantee that I've definitely done it before.

Bolded is exactly why we should lynch him right now. If people do not see the problem with this then they really need to read up on what the scums' win condition is.

Self-meta never has and never will be a scum tell regardless of the person comitting it. I've almost never seen it come from scum.

Self meta is always scummy. I have never seen town use it ever. Really really happy with this vote. COme one guys lets shoo shoo this bitch.

Then fucking play more mafia because I see town use it all the time.

Which is exactly why you are using it right now to look town. See that is the problem. YOur "self meta" is only used to help you survive and not catch scum. Therefore there is little town motivation for doing it.

Also, keep in mind that this is page 17. How much can we really go off of meta d1. In order to have a decent sized sample for meta to be relevant at all then we must have more than a few posts by one person. We have very little to even validate if om's self meta is actually consistent with his play right now.

Also, to make an addition to the case...

Note how when OM has only 2 votes on him (a far cry from a lynch or a wagon) he goes insane. Super hyper defensive. Every post he makes is centered around himself, and himself only. Note that he ceases to scum hunt and only concentrates on his defense. He only has 2 votes on him. Keep that in mind. It is clear that om's motivation to stay alive is several times greater than catching scum. This motivation indicates a scum alignment as opposed to a town one. I think we could gain a lot of information from om's wagon and eventual lynch.

I still like yolo. But guys, we have a live one right here.

[Red Dragon]

Also, we have no reactions from om in response to flips or night action results., Something that is crucial to playing mafia, and thus also crucial to the assessment of his meta.

Personally I do not think meta should be used at all to construct cases or to defend against them. A players actions should stand on their own merit. However, I am willing to concede that meta could be useful in order to show, without a doubt, that om's motivation for using such meta is only for his personal gain, instead of that of the town. So a question to om:

Why do you need to show us your meta when your actions should, under

all

circumstances, be enough to ascertain townieness on their own?

@ztife, I know I'm going to break a rule that I previously made by answer a question for om. But I believe that the purpose of his town meta i gain a sense of "town authority". That allows him to not worry about getting lynched himself and to push whatever lynch he wants with a group of people who will "follow the leader". His motivation could not possibly be to prove that he was town in and of itself, because no one was seriosuly questioning his townieness at the time.

[Red Dragon]

Yeah, Om's insanely defensive abuse and use of profanities doesn't scream Town.

getcho ass on the wagon.

[Red Dragon]

Note how when OM has only 2 votes on him (a far cry from a lynch or a wagon) he goes insane. Super hyper defensive. Every post he makes is centered around himself, and himself only. Note that he ceases to scum hunt and only concentrates on his defense. He only has 2 votes on him. Keep that in mind. It is clear that om's motivation to stay alive is several times greater than catching scum. This motivation indicates a scum alignment as opposed to a town one. I think we could gain a lot of information from om's wagon and eventual lynch.

No, fuck you. I'm having a super stressful time right now IRL. My sister OD'ed on Thursday and on top of that I have so much shit to get done for school. This overreaction has nothing to do with my alignment or anything like that. I'm just fucking pissed at everything and I'm entirely liable to snap at any time.

replace out

[Red Dragon]

Is it just me, or has anyone else skipped the noisy and useless bcade v fegal banter? I'm not really down for either of them at the moment. I would need a third party case to be persuaded. If pushed I am most game for yolo. Still time to lynch om guys.

[Red Dragon]

ugh I feel like qwints wagons tend to happen to relieve pressure of scum not wanting to lynch their own and he tends to be mislynched town

somewhat agree.

[Red Dragon]

I actually think bcade is more townie than fegal. Still hoping for either yolo (still not contributing... hint hint) or om

[Red Dragon]

I've been in the same shoes as don before (having to sub in for a scummy Townie), so I can sort of sympathize there.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

In case I'm not able to post, I'm gonna vote for the wagon that I hate the least that has a chance.

vote: feglein

I wish we could have lynched better d1.

[Red Dragon]

Which other potential wagons does it seems like there is to you? Who are your scum reads? What's your true read on feg then?

The ones that have more than 2 or more votes on them without my vote That would be: dj, feg, bcade. Of those three feg is the most scummy. My read on feg is null. Bcade doesn't read scum to me, but he doesn't read that townie either. DJ is just a meh lynch. feg is both more scummy than dj and would give us more info.

As for my scum reads, read the game better please.

[Red Dragon]

Please note that I am not going on a Don_johnson wagon unless I have to (if no-one else is here that hasn't voted him near deadline)

So, feg, who is scum and who is town in your opinion.

[Red Dragon]

I'm asking for a list before you are lynched... I don't want to lose your opinions on things when you can no longer speak.

[Red Dragon]

Underlined looks like so much crap, if you flip scum I'm definitely pushing a RC wagon tomorrow lol.

I thought he would have DJ and om higher up...

Which other potential wagons does it seems like there is to you? Who are your scum reads? What's your true read on feg then?

The ones that have more than 2 or more votes on them without my vote That would be: dj, feg, bcade. Of those three feg is the most scummy. My read on feg is null. Bcade doesn't read scum to me, but he doesn't read that townie either. DJ is just a meh lynch. feg is both more scummy than dj and would give us more info.

As for my scum reads, read the game better please.

Are you sheeping?
That didn't answer anything. Basically you're saying all 3 major wagons to you are all null reads, with no efforts to push your scum reads whatsoever.
How's feg more scummy than bacde? In what way feg looks scum to you?

Yes, becuase a no lynch is better than a lynch. You must realize that it is better to take a gamble on a null read than no lynch at all. I pushed yolo and om, and the wagons fell apart. At the moment, I have no other options except to go for the most acceptable wagon that has a chance. That wagon is feg. And yes, at the moment I am sheeping on the reasons of others.

Of those three feg is the most scummy. My read on feg is null.

Wait what? Do you mean null leaning scum or...?

Most scummy of the nulls, yes. The present reality of the game forces me to vote for someone that was not at the top of my scum list.I would say null, with slight scummyness. The other two are null with a little town. Again, would it be better for a no lynch. This is the scenario that you guys are advocating here.

Ankamius' post is really good. If the other replacements did something similar, it'd be awesome. Shame he's in such a scummy slot.

Fuck it, you're scum again.

WHY
WHY
WHY

Inconsistency is not a scumtell (more like a towntell tbh).
Hypocrisy is not a scumtell.

WHAT
WHAT
WHAT

YOU SAID YOU WOULD VOTE THE BIGGEST WAGON IF NECESSARY

THERE ARE TWO MAIN LYNCH TARGETS: FEG OR CHEERY

I'VE BEEN SAYING ONE'S TOWN ALL GAME

AND I'VE SAID SCUMMY VIBES OFF THE OTHER

HEY MAYBE I'LL VOTE THE GUY THAT I THINK IS ACTUALLY A BAD GUY

HOW 'BOUT THAT SHIT

No you see why we should have lynched om.

[Red Dragon]

no should = now.

[Red Dragon]

I'm almost 100% positive that there was one scum on ...

I am not almost sure.

I am 100% sure that there was at least one scum on the cheery dog wagon.

Anyone who ignores this fact is suspect.

no. you are a lynch because you should have been lynched yesterday, but the wagon was derailed to cheery dog.

I am in agreement with this. Becade was fegs biggest enemy and he ended up nked. Also, cheery dog lynch was bullshit. Cheery, has a right to be pissed about this.

Actually, a better move for me as scum would have been to stay on Bacde and push him instead, seeing as he had 2 votes at the stage I unvoted him.

Yeah, this is scummy as fuck and wifom.

I am the worst player in the world. I completely fucked up.

I know I'm going to fuck up with my next scum read, so yeah, take what I say with a pinch of salt.

Welp this post screams scum. It's pretty much exactly the same post I made in my first game here after I counterwagonned someone at the end of Day 1.

I agree with this as well. Apologetic, "why me... oh why me?" is crap.

Right now I think I have the scum team. With the flips and the recent wagon play some of my reads have chnaged.

This is the most likely scum team:
1) Feg
2) Om of the nom
3 A mystery person which I am going to talk about right now.

First off, when the lynched happened I wasn't able to be around for the final 3-4 hours, so I didn't see events unfold in real time.... So I go in to check the thread to see what feg flips... but to my surprise it was cheery dog whop got lynched.. What the fuck? Cheery had 1 vote on him since my las post (#577), which, was the last time I checked the thread. SO how the fuck could someone go from 1 vote to 7 in a matter of hours when fucking feg had 4 votes on him. AND HOW COULD SOMEONE THE LEADING WAGON WAS PUSHING ON GET LYNCHED ANY FUCKING WAY?

I'm now pushing Cheery Dog as an alternative to my lynch just to let you know.

A lot of people believe he is scummy, while they are a lot of mixed feelings on me I believe.

And when one of the people who voted for cheery said this a few hours before:

Cheery Dog is not scum.
Laziness is not a scumtell (and he's quite lazy normally anyway).
Inconsistency is not a scumtell (more like a towntell tbh).
Hypocrisy is not a scumtell.
AKA Cheery isn't scum.

uhhhum... and now the mystery person I was talking about comes into play....... .....

dum, dum dum..... dum dum...

Let's analyze what happened while you wait in suspense.

Cheery dog wagon starts approximately 24 hours before deadline with a post form feg, who, by consensus, is the most scummy player in the game (read: votecounts show who is the most scummy). Here is the link for those interested and/or with short memories:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4901835

Remember this is the first vote on Cheery dog... Remember this was started by who the plurality of the town thought, at the time, was the most scummy player. Remember that.

So the next interesting post comes from zitfe:

RadiantCowbells

Made a great point about Bacde that I hadn't considered myself. Contributing well to the game also.

Cheery Dog

You know my case against him.

Underlined looks like so much

crap

,

if you flip scum

I'm definitely pushing a RC wagon tomorrow lol.

Now, I might be putting words into zitfe's mouth here... but it seems from this post and this:

In no particular order, im fine with Feg RC and yolo/evil lynch atm.

Feg/bacde exchange seems town/town. But Feg would probably make a good information lynch will all the opinions about him and seeing how his wagon would go.

We can draw that zitfe is more or less okay with a feg lynch, but not sold on his scummyness. While near the end of the feg wagon zitfe was becoming more and more convinced. Zitfe is interesting because he will lay a major role later... and the fact that he hasn't posted much of anything. From his iso I find that zitfe is more of a sheep rather than a herder. He has asked multiple times for cases and reasons, as well as to be "persuaded" while making very few posts with independent scummy reasons...

Now back to my favorite om quote:

Cheery Dog is not scum.
Laziness is not a scumtell (and he's quite lazy normally anyway).
Inconsistency is not a scumtell (more like a towntell tbh).
Hypocrisy is not a scumtell.
AKA Cheery isn't scum.

Feel free to try and point out where the scum motivation is in his posts. The only thing there that would fit in that category is that he could be jumping on you for an easy mislynch, but then from your POV there should be others guilty of the same thing.

ohh boy! Already talked about this... but see next post by om:

Om COULD be voting Bump to say "Hey, I wasn't on that final wagon" on D2.

Nevermind the fact that I said that

I'd vote onto the final wagon

if nobody joined me :/

This was said ~ 7

HOURS

from deadline. You need six other votes in 7 hours... anyway, interesting that you will jump on the wagon that lynches though nice ass cover thar for trying to derail shit. All that om pushing bump is is derailing a fucking wagon.

I doubt we're getting any lynch through other than myself I don't think.

I still stand by Bacde and Cheery being scum partners.

Great fucking reads there.

The only reasons that it wouldn't be happening would be if deadline hits while

I'm not here (I'd probably be at school)

or if my vote is sheeped by enough pepole.

this post is ~ 30 hours from deadline. You need 6 votes in 30 hours, and must switch your vote before school. Could you give me time that your classes start in UTC time?

So then we have the second vote for cheery come in by ank, at ~ 26 hours from deadline. Odd, especially considering that he said that feg get definite "scum points in post #547, calls his town tell bullshit in the same post, and doesn't like his play in 579. But you also called cheery scum. You also were able to post before deadline, so you could have changed your vote.

As it currently stands I have mild town reads on both Feg and Cheery (bad gut vibes from both but no real logic can prove exactly why they're scum) and the only reason I'm willing to lynch them is because a no-lynch on D1 is a terrible thing.

~ 26 hours to deadline. Depending on when school starts, you could be out of luck with that wagon switch thing. But again, you said you might not be able to be here, yet you STILL go with the bump wagon (which needs 6 more votes in 26 hours after 2 people didn't vote for your silly wagon).

I realize it's probably too late[/b], but given Cheery Dog's way of driving a Fegelein lynch with a weak case that doesn't change with new information, I prefer a Cheery Dog lynch to a Fegelein one.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

This person wants a no lynch right now. Seriously wants a no lynch. Even admits to it with the bolded.

I was just pointing out the fact that Cheery and Bacde are anything but easy targets. Bacde's been registered on the site for over 7 years, and Cheery is an IC.

Because anyone can be an IC, and time on site does not equal ability to play the game. Also, being an easy or hard target does not make one scum or not. It just makes one better at mafia than you.

Vote Count 1.16

Om of the Nom (0)

Cheery Dog (3) -- Fegelein, Ankamius, penguin_alien

penguin_alien (0)
RadiantCowbells (0)
MrBump (1) -- Om of the Nom
Secret Agent Sloth (0)
Ankamius (1) -- MrBump
don_johnson (2) -- Secret Agent Sloth, Ztife[/b]

Fegelein (4) -- Bacde, Cheery Dog, don_johnson, Red Dragon

Bacde (1) -- RadiantCowbells
Ztife (0)
Red Dragon (0)
evilpacman18 (0)

Not voting (1) -- evilpacman18

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch

Day One ends in (expired on 2013-04-26 10:24:00)

~6 hours left to deadline, and the above is the vote count.
Next MR. Bump votes for cheery here:

5 hours welp

VOTE: Cheery Dog

Noting that mr.bump has constantly (unlike om) said that feg was town, and he was 99% sure of it:

9. Fegelein - 99% Town in my eyes

So at this point mr.bump is faced with a really bad situation. He has to either lynch someone he knows will 99% of the time flip town and a possible no lynch. So he voted for the second biggest wagon on someone that he actually suspected:

Cheery's ISO is shockingly bad, hot damn. I'd prefer a lynch on him over Feg if it comes to that.

So Mr.bump's vote, in my opinion is acceptable under the circumstances. SO at this point the vote count reads:

Vote Count 1.16

Om of the Nom (0)

Cheery Dog (4) -- Fegelein, Ankamius, penguin_alien, MrBump

penguin_alien (0)
RadiantCowbells (0)
MrBump (1) -- Om of the Nom
Secret Agent Sloth (0)
Ankamius (0)
don_johnson (2) -- Secret Agent Sloth, Ztife[/b]

Fegelein (4) -- Bacde, Cheery Dog, don_johnson, Red Dragon

Bacde (1) -- RadiantCowbells
Ztife (0)
Red Dragon (0)
evilpacman18 (0)

Not voting (1) -- evilpacman18

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch

Day One ends in (expired on 2013-04-26 10:24:00)[/color]

And then we have this:

5 hours and it looks like we're gonna have an NL.

Unvote, Vote: Cherry Dog

And he votes for cheery dog. Which now makes him the leading wagon. Perfectly permissible in the circumstance actually.

Next bcade votes for cheery but takes it back (as any real man should when faced with this bullshit wagon)

VOTE: Cheery
I'm sorry Cheery plz forgive me.
Anyway as I said earlier I'm going to be heading to school after this so bye.

PEDIT fuck you guys

Nice, you don't have to give me the time in UTC now.

AND that's that. From a wagon that needed only 3 votes to lynch 24 hours from deadline... a wagon from nothing lynched town.


So who is that mystery person? Well, in my honest opinion it has to be one of these:
Ankamius, penguin_alien, MrBump, or Ztife. There is no way that the feg wagon could have been derailed only by feg and town. Of the four,

MrBump doesn't seem like it, my personal view here. Others may disagree.

Ankamius has a decent probability, but he did adamantly call cheery scum and HE WAS ABLE TO CHANGE HIS VOTE if he needed to. With this being the case there was no reason for ank to not see where the wagon went. There was nothing to lose, all to gain.

Penguin has a very high chance of being scum. He basically came out and aid he was voting for a lost cause. But to be fair to penguin he did actually say that feg wasn't scum in his first post in game. Maybe he could have voted in time... who knows.

That leaves zitfe, which is where I personally think the blame for the wagon lies. No votes for cheery until it reached 4v4. only one page before, when the cheery wagon was just starting, zitfe was warming up to the feg wagon. Cheery was far from his posts. BUT MAN RIGHT WHEN IT HIT TE TIPPING POINT. Boom muda fucka. Gonna vote that. Zitfe derailed the wagon. Zitfe lynched town. Zitfe was condemned by cheery dog (for what ever it is worth). Zitfe is the third scum

but for now...

vote: feg

Unfinished business that MUST be taken care of.

[Red Dragon]

Wait a second.

If you were scum, you would have killed my next top scum read to make me look bad. I thought I was a town read, but now you think I am scum?

Reconsidering my read on you.

Also, omgus. Also, your reads suck. Also, vote yourself.

[Red Dragon]

Oh yeah, and I'd also like to note that RD's only non-situational attacks on me are that I used self-meta

My response: 100% yes. I need nothing else at this point. I do not thin k it is productive to argue back and forth with walls after walls... it is counter productive. Suffice to say that I did read your posts, and I am still convinced that you have a higher probability of being scum than town.

Om brings up a good point; it seems highly unlikely that all three scum are on the wagon, and why are we assuming three? Is it standard for 12P?

P-EDIT: OMGUS AHAHAHAHA

I do agree with this. However, at this point it would be extremely foolish to assume that there wasn't scum on the wagon. Also, I noted that OM mguses everyone.

@zitfe, to a certain extent you are correct. My read on you is most certainly the weakest of the three. It is also

extremly

dependent on feg being scum. I am willing to admit that. And that is why You see my vote where it is. Currently, I wouild not advocate pushing your lynch over feg or om for this very reason. However, it seems odd that you KNOW what feg will flip.

P-EDIT: OMGUS AHAHAHAHA

It's so easy to sum up any attack directed at someone who attacked you as an OMGUS. But please, tell me why you decided to jump to that conclusion instead of actually asking for further information?

Also this game is 13P, so 3 scum is pretty likely to be the case.

Because every single post you make is omgus??? I mean, it is sorta hard to ignore at this point.

[Red Dragon]

Also, om, why try to create a whole new wagon 26 hours from deadline, would you not admit to trying to derail the feg wagon?

[Red Dragon]

To a certain extent, om is a little less dependent on feg being scum. I have other reasons to suspect him... however, if feg flips scum, he is MUST be wagoned. This is why lynching feg is a good idea and was a good idea.

Pingines vote is scummy as fuck. Between zitfe and pengine, I like zite as scum more. Pingune is a replacement, so we still don't have much content from him, zitfe has sheeped all game, so for that (and gut) I feel that zitfe is the better of the two.

[Red Dragon]

I'm really finding it difficult to juggle 6 games, host 1, and do my A-Levels atm, so I may request a sub-out.

mhhhmmm

@penguine, fair. It would be unfair to say that you couldn't have changed your vote becuase you never needed to. Personally, I think we need to lynch feg. Lynching feg gives us sooo much information at this point as well as gives us some pretty powerful association tells.

[Red Dragon]

I don't agree with that. Town should use all relevant information that they can. Flips are some of the few things in mafia that are 100% guaranteed, to not use them is foolish in my opinion. With that said, we have plenty of time to discuss, and I, unlike some, am not 100% set in stone about any particular course of action. I also think that before we lynch anyone everyone (specifically people like you and evil pacman) needs to post and discuss more before d2 ends so we have something going forward.

[Red Dragon]

step 1) lynch feg.

actually I think we need to talk more. But at the end of the day I really don't see any alternative.

[Red Dragon]

[quote="In post 652,
I reiterate my lack of my support for the fegelein lynch.

[/quote]
why?

[Red Dragon]

Which is it? And in terms of flips being useful, yes, that's true, but as long as we lynch we get a flip, we aren't losing out on that.

except that we are losing out of like 4 association tells that feg has that the other people don't. Not every player is the same. This makes me think you aren't paying attention to the game.

[Red Dragon]

zitfe, read the game. My view changed when a wagon sprung up from no votes led by the highest wagon to a lynch in 24 hours.

Also, I agree with Bump on this one. Even if feg leaves we shouldn't isnta lynch him.

[Red Dragon]

I honestly don't know what to do right now :/

lynch your bud.

I'm with don on this one actually. If we want to talk, do the talking, don't talk about talking.

[Red Dragon]

yeah don't buy it. It seems like you are trying to defend feg for some reason that you are not telling us. That is what most of my reads come down to. People defending feg for no reason. OM and zitfe are the worst offenders in my opinion.

Zitfe, I will be happy to put you down as town and never accuse you of being scum again if we lynch feg today and he flips town. If you won't go along with it... well then... I hope the other townies see that there is something fishy going on.

[Red Dragon]

keep in mind zitfe that the cheery wagon changed my read on feg. Day 2 is different than d1. And yes, by blatantly derailing a wagon you are defending a person.

[Red Dragon]

I just love how zitfe is so scared of lynching feg.

[Red Dragon]

so many meta arguments here that are stupid. Christ, can't you guys build a case that stands on its own for a change?

[Red Dragon]

ank, You had better have everything done by tomorrow.

Also, thanks for putting your vote on your bud zitfe.

[Red Dragon]

okay, I was wrong you can now proceed to lynch me.

[Red Dragon]

also, ank, full reads now. You had a full night phase give me a break.

[Red Dragon]

I got the prod. Just not much going on.

[Red Dragon]

13P having three scum and a kill role elsewhere seems unlikely to me. Radiant's play kinda shouts SK, though.

happens all the time. If the scum have a role cop and or a role blocker a vig is fine.

I like mr. bump right now. Not sure if ready to vote.

[Red Dragon]

fuck it

vote: mr. bump

lynch/nk me when I'm wrong... again.

[Red Dragon]

I know I'm not scum. We still have a chance at winning the game; mr. bump seems like the best way to go.

[Red Dragon]

Everyone voting MrBump: Why would you ever want to end this day phase so fast.

POE.

Actually I'm not liking anks play all game. The only thing he has posted is catch-up posts. He has never engaged in any discussion. I think him and mr. bump are the two scums left.

But I'm probably wrong... so...

[Red Dragon]

Ok. Run me through the POE again.

I think everyone else is town. pretty simple really.

mr. bump: calm down. i am trying to ascertain what you are saying. please expand on why the bacde shot doesn't make sense from a town perspective. you seem to be contradicting yourself. you believe there is three scum but you also believe that RC is sk? your own logic won't let that set-up stand. so which is it?

ARE YOU DENSE

I WAS SPECULATING THAT RC WAS SK AND IF HE WAS THERE WOULD BE TWO SCUM

THREE SCUM SEEMS MORE LIKELY

HOOOLY SHIT.

I'm diverting pressure right now by pointing our YOUR CASE IS A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS and you just go "well um i think hes scum lawl"

I really hope you and Red Dragon aren't Town because if you are then holy shit you tunnel worse than a fuckin' Pringles manufacturer.

also, this seems manufactured.

RC is either town vig or SK.

so much this. Lynching RC today is counter productive.

mod v/la from friday till Tuesday. Maybe home early, but not sure.

[Red Dragon]

mod, my v/la needs to start tomorrow (the 22nd)... sorry but I have to leave earlier than expected.

[Red Dragon]

I played really bad, sorry.