Mini 1440 - Unoriginal Mafia - Endgame


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Post Post #490 (isolation #0) » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:54 am

Post by Belisarius »

VOTE: Demon

A bit of gut, a bit of Monty is right and everyone slamming on him for being right should feel bad.

Disingenuity
is
a scumtell because scum are always acting. They have to pretend to know less than they actually do. What motivation does town have to pretend to be fighting a language barrier? For scum, it's a way to wave away a failure to notice a clue.
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Post Post #522 (isolation #1) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:58 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 491, petapan wrote:he was joking are you scum or dumb as hell
My, my, my, aren't we a grumpy gus. Care to try again without the blatant logical fallacy?
In post 498, Bomberman wrote:
In post 490, Belisarius wrote:VOTE: Demon

A bit of gut, a bit of Monty is right and everyone slamming on him for being right should feel bad.

Disingenuity
is
a scumtell because scum are always acting. They have to pretend to know less than they actually do. What motivation does town have to pretend to be fighting a language barrier? For scum, it's a way to wave away a failure to notice a clue.
this reasoning is atrocious and i'm not sure how you come to this conclusion
I explained exactly how I came to that conclusion. Exactly how is noting the use of subterfuge "atrocious?"
In post 502, Demon wrote:1) No one stated intent to hammer.
2) He's not at L-1 anymore.

Preferred lynches today are Arc and Belisarius (done literally nothing to improve Nunez's previous slot). Do you have any other reads, Beli?
This game has been a lot of words, words, words but light on actual content. I have gut scum reads on Bomberman and banana guy, but can't consciously home in on what's causing that so I'm not going after either.
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Post Post #528 (isolation #2) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:39 am

Post by Belisarius »

Yes, I read through D1 as soon as I replaced in. I saw disingenuity from Demon, and a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
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Post Post #581 (isolation #3) » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:14 am

Post by Belisarius »

Alright, I'm down with a read wall. I like read walls.

Asterisks on the players who were in on GiF's lynch, since there was almost certainly scum there.

ArcAngel9*

Explains why Nunez's actions are scummy, and then asks peta to explain why Nunez was scummy. Why?
Looks town as smurf -- The Nunez and baboon RP'ing posts annoyed the trout out of me as well. I know her annoyance here is genuine because I share it.
Both of these reasons are trout; Replacing out because one is in too many games isn't that uncommon, and people pick the game they're least interested in to replace out of, and meta should be used only to reinforce an existing point, never stand alone
"even if he is town, i doubt his alignment." What does this mean?
I'm not willing to lynch Arc today because I don't trust the flashmob that's building on her.

Belisarius

Dashing, erudite, and incredibly handsome

Bomberman*

It looks like Bomber has pranay as town in this post, but wants to lynch him anyways.
is question dodging -- Bomber's attack on Psyche's vote on Pacifist is a classic example of telling not showing, and here he's refusing to show.
and are both promises of "content later" and little else.
A++ would read again. Post more like this.
Townpoints for calling for a readslist.

Demon*

-I don't care if Monty
was
joking, the fakery in the first 300 posts of the game is scummy as hell
NK analysis is WIFOM
What scumhunting? Jakes reads were gut.
"352 isn't talking about how you're being scummy" -- so you're fine with lynching town?
Contrived, I know, but "to be honest" is a bit of a red flag. It implies you haven't been honest previoustly.
Fluff, and not at prod timer; if you have nothing to say, why are you talking?
Speedlynching is bad
What scum read? The only times you've mentioned Arc before that vote was a reasonless listing of her in your scumlist back when you were pretending not to understand English and asking her for a read on rmp.

Goodbar*

So those reads are gut, yes? Why not say gut instead of refusing to explain? You don't like transparency?

MontyWhittaker

Why are so many people voting for bile over scumreads in this game?
No. Claims come with intent to hammer, and Nero was not even at L-1 at 501[/post]

Nero

Read the goddamn game

A game like this calls for tryharding.

Pacifist*

OK, chat mafia player; I usually don't expect much from chat mafia players, since day phases are too short to actually scumhunt in chat mafia, so they don't ever really learn how. Unless of course you call follow the cop scumhunting.
Oh yes you do.

Starting to run out of steam here; I'm going to have to stop doing reads in alphabetical order.

petapan*

Not willing to lynch peta today; I've seen too many people saying the equivalent of "lynch player x, not because I think they're scum but because I don't like them," and peta's been rude enough to pass for a Torontonian -- that tells me he sees himself as expendable, which scum don't. That may sound a bit WIFOM'ish, but the risk/benefit analysis of pissing people off is significantly more favourable to town than to scum.
Here's another player voting for Arc when the only time he's mentioned her was to call her pretty town. At this point, about the only thing that could possibly make me vote Arc would be if I were in lylo with her and Jesus Christ.

rmpeacoc

Voting for someone other than your top scumread doesn't make sense, L-2 or otherwise; town won't quickhammer and scum don't dare. Wanting to have a vote in play even when you don't know who to vote for is not town thinking.
Votes baboon for lurking, says what is syntactically equivalent to "If Goodbar has been lurking, at least he's been lurking." What?


SafetyDance

Not enough to go on yet, but intuitively, this feels like the same Safety I just finished a game with, and he was town there.
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Post Post #596 (isolation #4) » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:45 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 591, rmpeacoc wrote:I am looking at both Belisarius and SafetyDance. You and bomberman are also not giving me a chance to do anything but defend myself right now.

You're going to have to clear up that dangling participle for us. Are you saying {Me, Safety, bomberman} aren't giving you a chance to do anything but defend yourself, or {Goodbar, bomberman} aren't?

Either way it doesn't make much sense; I've said less about you than anyone except Safety, Safety hasn't mentioned you at all, and bomberman has barely mentioned you recently. Goodbar is the only one voting you. So why are you freaking out so hard?
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Post Post #597 (isolation #5) » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:46 am

Post by Belisarius »

oh nvm I missed bomberman's vote, I was looking for the white background from the vote tags.

Still, he hasn't pushed very hard.
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Post Post #609 (isolation #6) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:16 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 600, Goodbar wrote:@belisarius - there really wasn't a "flashmob" on her and she hasn't said anything redeemable all game
If a lot of votes in a short period of time isn't a flashmob, what is? I certainly haven't seen enough scummy behaviour to justify the speed of that wagon build, and that makes me think it's scum-driven.
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Post Post #633 (isolation #7) » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:58 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 627, Goodbar wrote:
In post 609, Belisarius wrote:
In post 600, Goodbar wrote:@belisarius - there really wasn't a "flashmob" on her and she hasn't said anything redeemable all game
If a lot of votes in a short period of time isn't a flashmob, what is? I certainly haven't seen enough scummy behaviour to justify the speed of that wagon build, and that makes me think it's scum-driven.
Uh are you serious? The people that voted her all gave individual reasons except I can't recall Bomberman's. 4 people in an 11 person game is not a fucking flashmob (and even then the votes were spread out, with Bomberman unvoting eventually). There is no flashmob, just a bunch of people giving extraordinarily shitty defenses of her which have basically no substantiation
It's the attacks that lack substance. I don't like mysteries, Dahno, and you shouldn't either.
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Post Post #635 (isolation #8) » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:24 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 634, petapan wrote:okay i read it anyway and i do not understand the case on rmpeacock
Nor do I, really, other than the lack of towntells.

If you're not already doing so, make a case on me/my predecessor prz.
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Post Post #638 (isolation #9) » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:06 pm

Post by Belisarius »

Miss, if the town has no better reason to vote you than stating townreads, you're pretty damn safe.

This doesn't mean FtI is going to work against me, not so soon after Nacho beat be the same way
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Post Post #642 (isolation #10) » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:20 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 639, rmpeacoc wrote:what is FtI?
Flatter the Idiot.
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Post Post #643 (isolation #11) » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:23 pm

Post by Belisarius »

Other non-common abbreviations I use: FUD = "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt", PGA = "Postgame Analysyis" and OtC = "Omitting the Conclusion" (a type of FUD)
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Post Post #653 (isolation #12) » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:31 am

Post by Belisarius »

I didn't miss it, it's just null.
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Post Post #677 (isolation #13) » Thu May 02, 2013 5:45 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 665, Demon wrote: @Belisarius - Your analysis on me is fairly lackluster. Your immediate dismissal of NK analysis as WIFOM is antitown
Elaborate.
The fact that you stated that Jake did no scum hunting only goes to show me that you did nothing more significant than a skim on the thread.
I said his reads were gut; I spoke of the end result, not the process leading up to it.
You try to discredit me by taking my post directly out of context - no, scratch that, you completely strawmanned what I said. You provided the link; you can go back and read it. 356 talks about a supplemental contribution rather than the sole reason I wanted him lynched.
I did go back and read it. You threatened someone with death for a reason other than being scum--which in itself qualifies as, in your words 'a supplemental contribution rather than the sole reason I want you lynched.' In short, it's a microtell, but an accumulation of microtells paints a damning picture.
You're also attempting to say that my saying 'To be honest...' is scummy? :facepalm:
Again, insufficient in isolation, but cumulatively it becomes worth mentioning.
I could take the rest of his arguments on me to town, but it'd really just be a waste of time. A synopsis of what he's calling me scum for there amounts to very trivial bullshit like "speed lynching is bad" and "???fluff posting bad".
Putting words in other peoples' mouths is bad.
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Post Post #680 (isolation #14) » Thu May 02, 2013 8:18 am

Post by Belisarius »

Like hell it is, replacing out is alignment-neutral
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Post Post #683 (isolation #15) » Fri May 03, 2013 5:34 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 682, Demon wrote:@Belisarius - Literally everything you just said can be refuted by *reading posts*. Hardly any sort of high level of reading comprehension necessary.
Methinks you misunderstood. How
exactly
is calling NK analysis WIFOM antitown? One concrete example, prz.

And if everything I said can be refuted by reading posts, then I'm sure you won't mind matching quotes with the posts that refute them. Unless of course you can't on account of that being a massive crock of bulltrout.
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Post Post #707 (isolation #16) » Sun May 05, 2013 5:43 pm

Post by Belisarius »

We have to lynch correctly today? Are you saying there are FOUR scum?

VOTE: Nero

Time to nut up, troll.
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Post Post #736 (isolation #17) » Mon May 06, 2013 1:00 pm

Post by Belisarius »

Too late, Monty's vote was a hammer.
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Post Post #742 (isolation #18) » Wed May 08, 2013 8:19 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 740, rmpeacoc wrote:Wow I really thought he was trolling.
He was. Meta says that's a null tell for Nero.
I also expected to die...
Wherefore?
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Post Post #746 (isolation #19) » Thu May 09, 2013 5:46 am

Post by Belisarius »

I was townreading you anyways.

I don't think Nero's flip is particularly informative, he wasn't linked with anyone, we just lost patience with him and essentially executed a PL.
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Post Post #768 (isolation #20) » Thu May 09, 2013 8:15 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 763, Bomberman wrote:belisarius vote rmp
no she's town
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Post Post #783 (isolation #21) » Sun May 12, 2013 5:18 am

Post by Belisarius »

I think we've all been operating under the same assumption.

If there were a second killing faction, they'd have shot by now.
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Post Post #796 (isolation #22) » Tue May 14, 2013 6:09 am

Post by Belisarius »

Why are you against a bomberman lynch specifically? That seemed to come from out of the blue.

As long as we're playing the townhunting game, though, I'm still not willing to lynch AA, rmp, or Monty.
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Post Post #802 (isolation #23) » Tue May 14, 2013 8:18 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 798, Goodbar wrote:Can you maybe elaborate on Monty?
Elementary; Zero scum-minded content, and I liked his stance on Demon--outcome notwithstanding
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Post Post #809 (isolation #24) » Thu May 16, 2013 5:48 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 807, Goodbar wrote:I'm not sure what I can take of it personally
Also simple: what you should take out of it is that if you're going to try to lynch Monty today, you're going to do it without my vote.
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Post Post #821 (isolation #25) » Fri May 17, 2013 8:20 pm

Post by Belisarius »

2 of those days are on a weekend, so it's really not that much time.

How is Bomberman's concern about the deadline alignment-indicative?
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Post Post #838 (isolation #26) » Mon May 20, 2013 7:09 am

Post by Belisarius »

Yeah, I think we need more votes in play

VOTE: Goodbar

That evens up the score.
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Post Post #847 (isolation #27) » Mon May 20, 2013 6:15 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 841, Goodbar wrote:Belisarius - ...why?
As I said, to even the score, endgame being to stop rmp from being lynched by providing a viable alternative.

It's still viable.
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Post Post #855 (isolation #28) » Tue May 21, 2013 8:28 pm

Post by Belisarius »

My vote on Goodbar is PoE.

Also I want rmp alive.
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Post Post #857 (isolation #29) » Wed May 22, 2013 6:10 am

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The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

There's been a lot of pressure on rmp without sufficient evidence to back it up; this makes the push on her look incredibly scum-driven and if the scum want her dead, I want her not-dead. Same goes (albeit with lesser intensity) for AA9 and Monty. That leaves Goodbar, Bomberman, and you as possible lynches, and there's more support for Goodbar.
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Post Post #869 (isolation #30) » Sat May 25, 2013 5:36 am

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I'm fine with massclaim, it's probably lylo.

Who starts popcorn?
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Post Post #874 (isolation #31) » Sun May 26, 2013 5:49 am

Post by Belisarius »

Vanilla Townie here. Popcorn to Phenenas.
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Post Post #877 (isolation #32) » Sun May 26, 2013 10:12 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 875, RachMarie wrote:umm Bel you do realize that is the mod right?
That, combined with the fact that I didn't really have a popcorn choice, was the joke, yes.
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Post Post #881 (isolation #33) » Mon May 27, 2013 6:29 am

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So you really think I'd bus one scumbuddy and declare a hard townread on the other without much more solid evidence?
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Post Post #892 (isolation #34) » Wed May 29, 2013 5:56 am

Post by Belisarius »

I'm still having a hard time thinking of Monty as scum, although I don't understand why he'd think that if I were scum with you I'd be openly townreading you without a lot more to go on all game long.

I've never liked Bomberman for town, not from the moment I replaced in.
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Post Post #897 (isolation #35) » Thu May 30, 2013 6:11 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 894, rmpeacoc wrote:My only struggle is my fear that Belisarius is buddying me.
I'm
way
better at buddying than that.
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Post Post #904 (isolation #36) » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:52 pm

Post by Belisarius »

Well, nobody's said anything that changes my mind on rmp or monty, and Rach is confirmed town; I guess that makes my next move inevitable

VOTE: Bomberman
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Post Post #907 (isolation #37) » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:27 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 905, rmpeacoc wrote:So who would you team him with?
Depends on who lives through the night, assuming we have a night.

Per Shaheed's Law, I'm assuming that there
will
be a night, but I'm not assuming I'll live through it since I can still win in 3p lylo even if I die tonight.
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Post Post #909 (isolation #38) » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:22 pm

Post by Belisarius »

I really don't consider the gamestate of this or any game of mafia to be simple enough to permit my gameplay to be dictated exclusively by conditional mathematics. I'll react to events only after they occur.
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Post Post #914 (isolation #39) » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:47 am

Post by Belisarius »

So, basically, we're just waiting on a rep for Bomberman?
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Post Post #919 (isolation #40) » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:57 pm

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Oh melenkurion abatha ><
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Post Post #934 (isolation #41) » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:18 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 932, Klick wrote:My slot is obvious town.
Elaborate.
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Post Post #936 (isolation #42) » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:12 pm

Post by Belisarius »

That's pure WIFOM. Not unvoting.
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Post Post #938 (isolation #43) » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:27 am

Post by Belisarius »

It's the natural progression of the game for the scummiest players to be alive at the end because the scum kill the towniest. The fact that someone was suspicious of people who wound up surviving is completely unsurprising and in no way clears anyone. Your "logic" is shit and if anything now I'm surer that my vote is in the right place.
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Post Post #941 (isolation #44) » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:15 am

Post by Belisarius »

Lylo is a reason.
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Post Post #943 (isolation #45) » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:44 am

Post by Belisarius »

How so?

In detail.
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Post Post #945 (isolation #46) » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:50 am

Post by Belisarius »

So you don't dispute that Lylo is a reason to be "heated up." Good.

But that also means that you posted to essentially say fuck all. Not so good.
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Post Post #955 (isolation #47) » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:11 am

Post by Belisarius »

I'll acquiesce to a Monty lynch, but I'd still rather have Klick.

Not voting for him now though, don't want a quickhammer even in the unlikely event of a Klick/rmp team.
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Post Post #979 (isolation #48) » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:53 am

Post by Belisarius »

Then it seem's we're all in agreement.

VOTE: Monty

Fingers crossed.
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Post Post #986 (isolation #49) » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:17 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 985, Klick wrote:Yeah, I wanted to see Beli's reaction. But I didn't really expect you to pick up on it.
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jRhgNp-fNc
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Post Post #996 (isolation #50) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:02 am

Post by Belisarius »

Been trying to work out the night actions.

It's quite handy that Klick had such a nice neat little theory all wrapped up in a bow right at the start of the day. Almost like he knew for sure how the night was going to play out, and had earlier night actions that the rest of us had dismissed in the forefront of his mind because
he modified them
.

Given that there are only 2 scum in a game this size, it's guaranteed that the remaining scum is a PR, such as a ninja, redirector, or, unpopular as it might be, a bus driver.

I can't see Klick posting #991 if rmp was the remaining scum, so by PoE, I know what must be done.

VOTE: Klick
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Post Post #1002 (isolation #51) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:28 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 999, rmpeacoc wrote:I knew it was going to be extremely difficult.
Dunno about that, Klick's opening play caught me completely off-guard.

Well played.
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Post Post #1006 (isolation #52) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:42 am

Post by Belisarius »

The setup was fine, the win was deserved.

I spent the better part of 24 hours wondering how the hell I was going to respond to Klick's case on my and my rebuttal was still shit. It was the best I had, though, and someone was bound to notice that I was being active as fuck in my ongoing newbie game during that time span.
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Post Post #1007 (isolation #53) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:43 am

Post by Belisarius »

As for killing Rach, she was confTown and I didn't want confTown in my lylo. I'd forgotten about the JK that cleared Klick entirely.
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Post Post #1010 (isolation #54) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:01 am

Post by Belisarius »

We had a rolecop. It wasn't useful because Rach claimed the day after I scanned her, but it could have been under different circumstances. Besides, there were only 2 town PRs.
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Post Post #1011 (isolation #55) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:02 am

Post by Belisarius »

Also, perspective; I'm fine with the setup, but I like a challenge and don't give a rat's ass about my win:loss ratio.
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Post Post #1023 (isolation #56) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:42 am

Post by Belisarius »

In post 1020, Jake from State Farm wrote:should have been an odd night jk though.
Yeah, that would have been better.
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Post Post #1029 (isolation #57) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:30 pm

Post by Belisarius »

I dunno, I managed to bring it to 3p lylo and I'm really not all that good at Mafia. It can't be that townsided.

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