Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[Scott Brosius]

/confirm

[Scott Brosius]

Vote: GoodCopBadCop

Wagon time!

[Scott Brosius]

Wagon time!

Whenever I see something like this I go to my super secret lab and mark that person down as either "scummy" or just "lazy" (there is some potential to fill both categories).

Further testing is required, but the

pie's

uh eyes are upon you.

No vote placed? Why not?

RVS wagons best way to get out of RVS.

Such an interesting start this fine day!

VOTE: Varsoon Cause I like the way Toomai thinks

This looks pretty RVS (referencing my random vote), I don't know why people are jumping on it. Also it probably doesn't count since it's not bolded.

Vote: GoodCopBadCop

Wagon time!

Let's not start a wagon against the biggest attention whore in the thread so far mmmmkay?

Why not? Not sure I like how fast it built up, but as long as it doesn't go much further, I don't see the problem. A bold statement was made that people don't agree with, so we put on some votes to get explanation or reaction.

How fast it built up? Three people are on the wagon. The hap comment is weird too, stating that we shouldn't start a wagon against a vocal player.

[Scott Brosius]

Vote: GoodCopBadCop

Wagon time!

Let's not start a wagon against the biggest attention whore in the thread so far mmmmkay?

Why not? Not sure I like how fast it built up, but as long as it doesn't go much further, I don't see the problem. A bold statement was made that people don't agree with, so we put on some votes to get explanation or reaction.

The only person that made a semi-justified vote on GoodCopBadCop was yourself. The other two were like "WAGON TIME I VOTE NOW YAY!" Justified voting is a fine way of pressuring someone for additional information. "WAGON TIME" isn't.

...
How fast it built up? Three people are on the wagon. The hap comment is weird too,

stating that we shouldn't start a wagon against a vocal player

.

Holdonaminute. You apparently agree with my hesitancy about the GBGC "wagon" and find my comment weird. Thalk with me about that a bit.

Futhermore, the bolded is pretty straightforward and standard, no?

WAGON TIME is a good way to get out of RVS.

I don't agree with your hesitancy and I don't see where you would even get that impression.

@ Scott, you have been on this site a while, certainly long enough to know that not everyone votes in RVS and it certainly isn't a requirement. Why call it out?

Gonna try to remember to sign my posts

-J

Seemed off that he found something he thought was scummy about me, yet does not really follow through and keeps his RVS vote. Feels hollow.

Then ignoring my comment and keeping his RVS vote after wagon gains steam.

I'm not sure why NicCage has rounded up so many votes so quickly. it seems like people have latched onto a small handful of things he's said and jumped to seemingly ridiculous conclusions. I don't see how we have enough information about him to justify the number of votes he has. I think NC is more likely town whose wagon is being pushed by scum because it could feasibly give an easy d1 lynch for them.

VOTE: Daemon385. His first post was very iffy and he hasn't posted since then; it could just be his newness clouding his actions but for the moment I think this is a good place for my vote.

the "why me and not someone else" comment has absolutely no town motivation, instead it is a self preservation comment. That is more than enough reasonable doubt. Not to mention he hasn't really done much to show he is town imo

- J

Ehh, I don't like the noob card, but that is something I have seen from newer players regardless of alignment.

Again, sorry for my lack of activity.

I'm just not so sure of GCBC's posts so far. Reads off to me.
As far as Dyslexicon and Daemon go, yeah, I realize suspecting them puts me in the same boat, but, eh, guess that's how it'll have to be. Between sitting back and watching the game so far/the content (or lack thereof) provided, I think they're likely candidates.
Besides, I'd prefer a day 1 flip that gives information over randomly choosing a target. You know, it helps to see a flip that has a lot of content going into it.

That said, yeah, I'm less town-like, I can see that. Again, I'll probably ISO near the end of the day cycle and produce reads.

This whole post reads as careful scum. Just no real concrete reads, somewhat excuse for lack of scumhunting with the "preference of a Day 1 flip". Then the admittance of not seeming town just looks like it wants pity or wants to appear town.

Unvote
Vote: Varsoon

[Scott Brosius]

Thanks, Scott, but it's too endearing to call me scum like that.

I'd like a GCBC flip or a NicCage flip.
Although, I really like Nic, so I guess,
Either a Toomai flip or a hapahauli flip would also be good.

Would you like concrete reads?
Here you go. No nulls.

ACFAN: Scum.
CHEERPIE: Town.
DAEMON: Scum.
DYSLEXICON: Scum.
GCBC: Scum.
HAPAH: Town.
HPLEAVES: Town.
PONYJAKE: Scum.
NICCAGE: Scum.
QWINTS: Scum.
SCOTT: Scum.
TOOMAI: Town.
ZEFIEND: Scum.

Too many players with less than 5 posts.
Unacceptable.

Oh good a list of baseless reads. Exactly what I meant.

I've also had more free time in my other games, and I was trying a more direct approach. Notice that I'm also fairly direct in previous scum games, too.

Sometimes I just write things to see what people'll say about 'em.

That's fair it does bring up ideas and topics that were not going on in the first place. Which is a bit of what I did in my original post (though again a bit mis-launched on my part)

Out of everything that has happened since your previous post to this one, THIS is the one point you make?

hap seems town, although he is acting strangely/almost coaching towards Varsoon which is concerning. He unvotes after a weak catchup post citing that Varsoon appears to be more active, and is generally being overly helpful specifically towards Varsoon.

Liking GCBC for town, especially with recent GC commentary.

I'm sorry I haven't been contributing more. Finals are proving hell. With such vocal townish play from Hapa there's gonna be mostly baaaaa anyways.
I strongly agree with Zef's post #168 where he agrees with some other players. Sheepasheep.
VOTE: NC

Don't like this at all. The blatant sheeping with no addition, then the following post is just empty talk about everyone agreeing? Looks like filler. Still like my Varsoon vote, but Dys is my second choice.

[Scott Brosius]

@ Scott Brosius

You've averaged less than a post a day so far. Can I expect you to be more active in the future? Also, two things:

hap seems town, although

he is acting strangely/almost coaching towards Varsoon which is concerning

. He unvotes after a weak catchup post citing that Varsoon appears to be more active, and is generally being overly helpful specifically towards Varsoon.

Regarding the bolded, have you ever caught scum with this heuristic? This is a yes or no question.

Regarding me being "helpful" to Varsoon - I ask questions when I have doubts about a players alignment, because I want to get more information about them. Shouting someone down and tunneling them until they quit is counterproductive to this. There is a legitimate chance that Varsoon is behaving as he is due to being legitimately busy, and I want to entertain that possibility to the fullest extent that I can.

Liking GCBC for town, especially with recent GC commentary.

I thought that recent GC commentary was terrible. He dug through the first few pages of the game and made reads. After being gone for 5 days, that's the best he can do? He admitted to being too bored to finish reading the damn game. Making reads on incomplete information is terribly irresponsible.

I post when I can, I try to post every day. I am extremely busy this week. Being obsessed with everyone's post count will lead you nowhere.

My concern is that you unvoted immediately after a single post saying I GUESS WE CAN EXPECT MORE CONTENT! Yet after I post its HEY GONNA POST MORE?! My issue is with you treating people differently for similar circumstances. So to fawn to your demands, the answer is yes.

Over reading means you are trying to make him scummy IMO like forcing it, his posts really haven't been that scummy and there is no way scum makes that list like that.

Scott needs to stop lurking, I find it funny that he felt the need to call out someone for not giving reads, and immediately got called out on it himself.

I'm still good with a NC lynch, he's laying low hoping his wagon vanishes IMO.

-J

For interest level, active lurking is much more interesting than lurking. Varsoon was posting filler with no strong reads or opinions at all. This was followed up by a sneery list of baseless reads.

Dyslexicon's 176 and 177 are startingly unhelpful and don't show any town motivation

I'm sorry I haven't been contributing more. Finals are proving hell. With such vocal townish play from Hapa there's gonna be mostly baaaaa anyways.
I strongly agree with Zef's post #168 where he agrees with some other players. Sheepasheep.
VOTE: NC

his vote on NC is basically justified with "well that's the most popular wagon so sounds good"

@acfan

His first post was

very iffy

and he hasn't posted since then; it could just be his newness clouding his actions but for the moment I think this is a good place for my vote.

Terrible reason to call someone scummy. What do you mean by "his post is iffy" exactly?

I mean, it just showed off signs of a player trying to make themselves look like they are something they are not, which is something scum inherently need to do whereas town do not. But I think his posts since then have shown it was more of a noob behavior than a scum behavior, so UNVOTE:

that's all that sticks out which hasn't really been said already and all I have time to post for the moment.

[/quote][/quote]

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

[Scott Brosius]

I would disagree with me giving half a dick about this game. I simply have a little experience in regards to this type of mafia. The reason I am voting Nic is because he has just been wrenching at my gut for quite a while now and he is giving me no reason not to. Something doesn't register right with him. Finals or not if true is understandable, but that still doesn't keep me from being suspicious of him. I also don't trust Scott so much because in my opinion a lot what he says seems scummy.

And I'm the only one to draw some attention to you for sheeping and providing nothing, and conveniently I'm a new scum read! Very interesting.

[Scott Brosius]

@ Scott

I dislike a lot in your last two posts, enough to make me question whether or not I should be voting you instead of Toomai.

I post when I can, I try to post every day. I am extremely busy this week.

Being obsessed with everyone's post count will lead you nowhere.

My concern is that you unvoted immediately after a single post saying I GUESS WE CAN EXPECT MORE CONTENT! Yet after I post its HEY GONNA POST MORE?! My issue is with you treating people differently for similar circumstances. So to fawn to your demands, the answer is yes.

Firstly I heavily object to the bolded. Activity is pathetic in this thread, and since no one else is bothering, I have to do whatever I can to make people talk. Your lack of any sense of urgency in this regard is alarming.

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

This is also really silly. If you spent all of two minutes reading ac1983fan's post, it's clear that he unvoted because he has doubts about who he wants to place a vote on.

You're trying to spread suspicion on him for absolutely nonsensical and forced reasoning.

--------------------------------
As a last point, your entire suspicion of Varsoon is very sketchy.

This whole post reads as careful scum. Just no real concrete reads, somewhat excuse for lack of scumhunting with the "preference of a Day 1 flip". Then the admittance of not seeming town just looks like it wants pity or wants to appear town.

Unvote
Vote: Varsoon

For interest level, active lurking is much more interesting than lurking. Varsoon was posting filler with no strong reads or opinions at all. This was followed up by a sneery list of baseless reads.

Firstly, I find this rationale fairly weak. You initially voted Varsoon because you didn't like one of his posts. That's not adequate.

And now you come with the active-lurking accusation... but

dont' you realize that Varsoon is the 2nd most active player in the game right now?!

Your entire "pursuit" of Varsoon feels scummy to me. You've never asked him any questions, and it doesn't seem like you're interested in finding out his allignment. You're spending infinitely more time going after

everyone else

other than Varsoon. Hell you've asked me more questions than you've asked of your top scumread, which is all sorts of nonsensical.

If you want to be the participation police that is fine. There are going to be lurkers in every game you play.

Regarding acfan, I don't understand why anyone who is town would not use their vote. I understand why he unvoted, but he presents a new read on Dyslex, yet does not act on that, just simply unvotes.

If you understand the definition of active-lurking, then you wouldn't be citing his post total. I understand why you are defending Varsoon since he has pretty much been your puppy dog all game, but there is no content there outside of sheeping whatever you think. But apparently that makes him town to you...

There are various ways to scumhunt, not everyone needs to follow your formula. Varsoon has done absolutely nothing to sway my opinion.

[Scott Brosius]

Bachelor party recovery...will return to this tomorrow.

[Scott Brosius]

My part again (im probably going to be the one more jumping on defending town reads - that's more my loyalty style).

We basically have seen Varsoon on this page again show why he is town. Is he frustrating town that makes me audably groan reading most of his posts? Yes. Is that still town? Yes.

Go to the last VC and what is happening. Varsoon is getting ran up against NC. What is the reaction from Varsoon? Attack a player who is voting NC. That accomplishes absolutely nothing from a scum perspective and instead is more of throwing rocks at a hornet nest. Not only is he making a vote that keeps him closer to a lynch as the leading wagon while easily being able to vote NC, but it also stands the chance of angering a player off the wagon who is defending him.

Scum are rarely borderline suicidal like that and I think anypony who really is thinking even shortterm should be able to see the high potential ramifications of making the type of vote he is, continuing the style of play he has gotten slammed for in that type of direction is just bad town play instead of bad scum play.

So Varsoon wagon. Go away.

NC is good, SB is good, GCBC is actually quite decent as well.

Need to talk with my other half but CGBC in 309 is all kinds of scum. NC still is really scummy (still kinda waiting for that Varsoon lynch reasoning) though, and im happy leaving the vote there.

Also four days to deadline, and im having mild connection issues (which look like they will persist for a couple weeks). Nothing that warrents replacing but just less accessable than normal self.

I don't buy this about Varsoon though. The behavior was immediately reinforced as town by hap, the most vocal player in the thread who essentially said he was obviously town...so why not continue it?

Why does it matter if there's a few days left?

Eh I guess you're right. We do kind of need enough time for him to claim.

Vote: NicCage

[L-1]

This is scummy. Seems opportunistic with weak reasoning and just giving in to GCBC's point. Also I agree with GCBC that the initial post about waiting seems like Toomai is wanting to look town. Combined with the way that the Toomai wagon slowly disintegrated makes me suspicious.

My vote remains on Varsoon, but I won't be voting outside of him or Toomai.

What exactly is the NC case? Going through his ISO, it really just looks like crappy town newb play more than anything else.

[Scott Brosius]

@ Scott

I don't buy this about Varsoon though. The behavior was immediately reinforced as town by hap, the most vocal player in the thread who essentially said he was obviously town...so why not continue it?

Regarding Varsoon, why don't you "buy it"? Unjustified statements like that will get you nowhere.

What exactly is the NC case? Going through his ISO, it really just looks like crappy town newb play more than anything else.

NC isn't a newb.

The justification comes after that statement. When he acts like that and you being the most vocal player in thread immediately reinforce that behavior as being apparently obvtown, why not continue that behavior?

Regarding NC, I'm going off of join date and quality of posts. Seems pretty inexperienced to me.

[Scott Brosius]

post_id=4959324 time=1368734632 user_id=10128 post_num=460]

Well I guess I'll go back to where I was then.

Vote: NicCage

That said, 1-Shot Doctor seems like a really weird claim to me. It's weak and unusual enough that it doesn't look like something that would be faked, but in the same way it's far easier to explain why he's not being killed (since if the claim is true the Mafia probably would like to keep him around for a while to keep suspicion high, as opposed to a full Doctor claim which would make everyone expect instant death).

You have me convinced. I felt there was going to be at least one scum in the set of not-common-posters and the evidence seems legit.

Vote: ac1983fan

Both opportunistic, weak votes. I still don't understand why we're prioritizing NC over Toomai.

agree with this 100%. This has been the scummiest behavior I have seen yet. The timing of these votes is too convenient... jumping right in as it takes off, and jumping ship before it completely sinks.

I agree with the no PR d1 lynch group, and I still don't see NC scum. Acfan remaining alive certainly makes night decisions more difficult on scum if he's telling the truth.

There seems to be support for this wagon lingering but nobody wants to take that first step.

unvote, vote: toomai

[Scott Brosius]

@ Toomai - why do you think Nic is scum and what do you think of the recent votes on Scott.

Also what's your read on scott.

NC asked an arguably suspicion-shifting question in 38, sheeped in 52, uses 212 to call my mistakes scumslips (that might be putting it a bit strong but that's kind of what I see right now), and in 302 called a player town with no reason even though said player had not done anything in 80 posts.

I have SB as null/very weak scum. I can see why people don't like what he's doing (e.g. 215) but don't currently think it's worth my vote.

So with the suspended deadline maybe we can get a wagon rolling on SB.

I'm not unvoting NC yet though. He's been at L-1 twice now and needs to claim.

"Not worth your vote" then, MAYBE WE CAN GET A WAGON. This guy literally wants to lynch anybody. NC gains steam, hes on there. acfan gains steam hes on there, acfan loses steam jumps back to NC. hap wants to lead a wagon against me, hey maybe we can get some support!

The only thing worth Toomai's vote is any potential lynch.

post_id=4960851 time=1368786195 user_id=10128 post_num=509]Hapa I may be willing to join you on the SB wagon if you elaborate your case a bit.

There's very little to elaborate on really.

The guy's lack of anything over the last few days is pretty scummy.

I just bombed the thread with suspicion against acfan over the last few days. The most natural thing to want to do is to comment on all of that, since it has been the focus of discussion. Yet not only does Scott completely

avoid

the topic... he goes and starts a new wagon.

So objectively, what is his goal? He says he wants to kick off a new wagon, but he neither puts in the time nor the effort to push it through. Furthermore, given his activity, it looks like he was planning just to plop his vote down and inactive until past the original 18 hour deadline.

------
As a last bit, he's been lightly defending NC, but for someone who doesn't want NC lynched, he's not putting very much effort in not getting NC lynched.

post_id=4959324 time=1368734632 user_id=10128 post_num=460]

Well I guess I'll go back to where I was then.

Vote: NicCage

That said, 1-Shot Doctor seems like a really weird claim to me. It's weak and unusual enough that it doesn't look like something that would be faked, but in the same way it's far easier to explain why he's not being killed (since if the claim is true the Mafia probably would like to keep him around for a while to keep suspicion high, as opposed to a full Doctor claim which would make everyone expect instant death).

You have me convinced. I felt there was going to be at least one scum in the set of not-common-posters and the evidence seems legit.

Vote: ac1983fan

Both opportunistic, weak votes. I still don't understand why we're prioritizing NC over Toomai.

agree with this 100%. This has been the scummiest behavior I have seen yet. The timing of these votes is too convenient... jumping right in as it takes off, and jumping ship before it completely sinks.

I agree with the no PR d1 lynch group, and I still don't see NC scum. Acfan remaining alive certainly makes night decisions more difficult on scum if he's telling the truth.

There seems to be support for this wagon lingering but nobody wants to take that first step.

unvote, vote: toomai

Considering I gave my opinion on the acfan situation, not sure how I'm avoiding the topic. It may not meet your thesis-length requirement to back up any opinion though.

[Scott Brosius]

VOTE: Cheery Pie

I'd like to have a little conversation with you about the last week of this game. What are your scumreads? Looking over your filter, all of the effort you put into this game is into criticizing the actions and logic of other players, while putting nothing on the table yourself.

@ ac1983fan

I could functionally vote you as well. Why were you not present in the thread at all in the last few days of D1?

Going through the ISO, this is a good point about CP. But Toomai lynch still needs to happen.

Vote: Toomai

acfan should claim an action/inaction especially with only one shot. With the flip including the compulsive modifier, the claim seems more reasonable having the 1-shot. However, that reasoning isn't strong and acfan's play has suggested otherwise.

[Scott Brosius]

I don't get on wagons with my top scum read, but since toomai has left, I feel better about acfan. I'm not buying the claim, the actions don't make sense, and the play is indicative of scum who has bought time, regardless of how busy he claims to be. He's trying a halfhearted push against me, and it doesn't really seem like he is trying.

This is the first time Toomai has jumped off a wagon before it crashed and it will be very suspicious if acfan flips scum. Especially since he was at L-1.

unvote, vote: acfan

[Scott Brosius]

Town roleblocker is such a scum claim. Also having the potential to kill? Please.

leaves you have mentioned me once all game...suggesting you thought I was town? Why on earth would I be a RB option? Makes 0 sense. Why would you shoot kuribo N1? Makes 0 sense. None of this claim adds up.

Scum don't get to popcorn. I'm VT. Toomai claim.

Vote: hpleaves

I'll have time for a more comprehensive post tomorrow night. I still like Toomai for scum, hopping on literally EVERY single wagon, then meekishly jumping off the acfan wagon yesterday. And for believing this laughable claim. Obviously the leaves lynch takes precedent.

Wait...

post_id=4991433 time=1369823891 user_id=10128 post_num=931]Also I shot Kuribo the first night so the Doctor should have two confirmed innocents by now.

Who said there was a doctor?

[Scott Brosius]

Yes a role who can kill and roleblock? Is there even a role that can do such a thing? I mean theoretically I guess there is. That is a very strange claim without more details for sure. I don't think a mass claim is such a good idea just yet. Maybe another day I'd say in my opinion or if something real insane goes down.

No one said there is a doctor but it is interesting that no one died last night. Even know we got a nice kill, what is the scum up to and who (maybe saved a life) has been running through my head.

As much as I am unsure of Scott being town, and I'm not very sure he is. This role claim does need to be clarified.

Well if he claims to have roleblocked me and is voting me, it's pretty apparent that he thinks he blocked a kill. So why the "doctor has 2 confirmeds!" comment, unless he knows he didn't block me and his scum kill simply failed to go through so he assumes there is a doctor.

[Scott Brosius]

Furthermore, if you're assuming the existence of a doctor, voting someone solely on the basis of a Roleblock claim makes very little sense. It doesn't confirm Scott as scum since it's entirely possible that a doctor/JK/whatever prevented the second shot.

This.

I'm pretty sure HP is town, or at the very least NOT scum.

1) Sloppy claims are usually town-claims.

Townies often don't care about keeping their story straight (since they're innocent to begin with), so a lot of claims become very sloppy and spontaneous. I think this is one of them.

Contrast this with AC's claim. His 1-shot doctor claim was incredibly neatly packaged, had a clean story behind it, and had all loose ends tied. It's incredibly different from this current scenario, in which HP basically assumed his claim was legit (which is a really townie trait), and bombed his claim without worrying about the consequences.

2) HP is showing no survivalist-mentality.

What does "scum-HP" have to gain from this claim? If he wanted to lynch Scott, he probably could have done so without claiming. Basically HP put himself in a position where he would get lynched if Scott flipped green, and making that 1-for-1 trade at this stage in the game (right after one of your scum-buddies dies) makes very little sense.

This is also why I doubt he's a 3rd party role. 3rd parties often want to lay low and surivive at all costs. This claim on his part not only puts him at risk to get lynched, but also puts him at risk to get shot by scum.

3) His "defense" makes sense.

1st, I wasn't here for the majority of the second day (because of the speedlynch, even though it was justified) so I didn't have time to comment at all
2nd, I do not breadcrumb my targets. Predictable actions=bad

Last day, SB's play consisted entirely of pushing Toomai's lynch while opposing ac's. Then he jumped on the ac bandwagon when he saw the lynch was inevitable. That's scum play.

All of this is true. HP simply wasn't around on day 2 to make any comments on Scott. Furthermore, his reasons for suspecting Scott are legit.

acfan's claim was nice and tidy? He amended it the next day with a nonlogical claimed action. This is null at best.

Of course he is being survivalist, before this game blew up, who was the lynch being directed towards today? leaves.

Agree that there is little chance of third party.


The idea that the claim is too elaborate to be scum is ridiculous. It is not farfetched that scum have daytalk given the kuribo flip, so something ridiculous is certainly feasible. Really? A ridiculous JOAT with roles nobody has ever heard of? This is what is pulling the wool over everyone's eyes?

A 5-shot JOAT is ridiculous in terms of power.

This is the only thing I can find - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16177

And it's a role that has never ACTUALLY been used up to that point.

As to why would scum completely fabricate a role?

Why not? If people exist that believe scum wont create fake roles, scum have all the motivation to create such a role.

This 100x. leaves obviously saw his partner go down with a fairly simple claim, had to try something completely different when the heat was on him.

With CP's doctor claim, it is quite obvious that the more likely scenario is that scum leaves tried to kill dash for townness/fear of being full tracker/etc, than leaves somehow developing a silent scum read on me and deciding to roleblock me. Give me a break.

[Scott Brosius]

Ok I still believe

Scott

is the correct lynch for today. As for Jake/Rainbow, I'll finish my thoughts/analysis of them later tonight. I still don't have a concrete opinion.

VOTE: Scott Brosius

1) Lynching the claimed-roles today is a terrible idea.

While the role combination seems powerful (especially the JOAT), it's not out of the ordinary balance-wise. Furthermore, behavioral analysis (particularly of HP) strongly suggests that the claim is town-motivated.

As a last bit, using their "powers" (real or not) can very easily force scum into sub-optimal decisions tonight. For example, even if Cheery is fake-claiming doc, mafia can't shoot the person he "saves" else it outs Cheery as mafia.

2) Behavioral analysis suggests that Scott is scum.

Let's not forget the most important thing in this game: behavioral analysis.

Scott is lurky, passive, and does not care about this game. Furthermore his Day 2 actions are objectively the scummiest in the game, in which he pushes Toomai until the ac1983fan wagon gains steam, then posts this:

I don't get on wagons with my top scum read, but since toomai has left, I feel better about acfan. I'm not buying the claim, the actions don't make sense, and the play is indicative of scum who has bought time, regardless of how busy he claims to be. He's trying a halfhearted push against me, and it doesn't really seem like he is trying.

This is the first time Toomai has jumped off a wagon before it crashed and it will be very suspicious if acfan flips scum. Especially since he was at L-1.

unvote, vote: acfan

Note that

none

of this post is about why ac1983fan is scum. In fact, nowhere in Scott's filter does he ever show any analysis/thoughts on ac1938fan. Scott seems more interested in framing Toomai after an AC flip rather than lynching AC.

Scott has been suspicious of Toomai all game, and from his filter, seems more interested in calling Toomai scum rather than pushing him or justifying his read. The last time he actually analyzed Toomai's filter was on Day 1:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4960151

...in which he voted Toomai late in the day to start off a wagon which no one was on. Then he peaced out for the rest of the day and never pushed the Toomai wagon.

Finally, notice how he completely forgets about Toomai when HP calls him out. Instead of being suspicious of BOTH Toomai and HP, he's all of a sudden balls-to-the-wall against HP. This is a clear example of

scum desperation

.

3) The most reasonable explanation for the lack of NK was that HP roleblocked the mafia shot.

There are two possible reasons for the lack of NK last night. Either Scott made the shot and was roleblocked, or scum shot Jake/Rainbow. Think about how risky it is to shoot into Jake/Rainbow on N2. That slot is the obvious N2 doctor save, and the chances of scum shooting right into such an obvious save are low (or atleast is to be doubted). This is further backed up by the N1 kill, where scum chose to make a "safe" shot into Zef instead of killing the obvious N1 doctor target (myself, since everyone thought I was town, and I was balls-to-the-wall going after confirmed mafia).

The only other option is that Scott was successfully Roleblocked, and that makes the most sense to me.

Lynching the overpowered ridiculous JOAT claim is not a good idea? With completely made up roles and coming from someone who was a strong possibility of being the lynch today?

I'm still suspicious of Toomai for wagon movement. He hops on every wagon, EXCEPT the lynching wagon of scum. I was cautious about the acfan claim D1 since there was no counterclaim, but the amendment was ridiculous combined with my top scumread conveniently jumping off the wagon when it was gaining steam. Certainly reason enough for me to believe there is a connection. However, when I'm being accused of being roleblocked when I have no powers, I am 100% sure hp is lying. How is this scum desperation? One player I have serious scum reads on, another is completely lying about their actions...who would you go with?

Also I had suspicions about acfan early on below but I had stronger reads so your

In fact, nowhere in Scott's filter does he ever show any analysis/thoughts on ac1938fan.

read proves you aren't even looking back into my filter and are just assuming.

@ Scott Brosius

@acfan

His first post was

very iffy

and he hasn't posted since then; it could just be his newness clouding his actions but for the moment I think this is a good place for my vote.

Terrible reason to call someone scummy. What do you mean by "his post is iffy" exactly?

I mean, it just showed off signs of a player trying to make themselves look like they are something they are not, which is something scum inherently need to do whereas town do not. But I think his posts since then have shown it was more of a noob behavior than a scum behavior, so UNVOTE:

that's all that sticks out which hasn't really been said already and all I have time to post for the moment.

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

[Scott Brosius]

I'm still suspicious of Toomai for wagon movement.

He hops on every wagon, EXCEPT the lynching wagon of scum

. I was cautious about the acfan claim D1 since there was no counterclaim, but the amendment was ridiculous combined with my top scumread conveniently jumping off the wagon when it was gaining steam.

Oh really?

I'm interested in seeing you make that case.

(Because it isn't true.)

Certainly reason enough for me to believe there is a connection. However, when I'm being accused of being roleblocked when I have no powers, I am 100% sure hp is lying. How is this scum desperation? One player I have serious scum reads on, another is completely lying about their actions...who would you go with?

That doesn't make any sense. All HP did was roleblock you. Hell HP could theoretically be the mafia roleblocker and telling the truth. The fact that you may or may not have powers shouldn't make you suspicious of HP.

Okay I give.

Unvote

Not voting NC yet because there's still a few days; not voting SB yet because I'm not as certain about him.

Why does it matter if there's a few days left?

Eh I guess you're right. We do kind of need enough time for him to claim.

Vote: NicCage

[L-1]

You have me convinced. I felt there was going to be at least one scum in the set of not-common-posters and the evidence seems legit.

Vote: ac1983fan

Well I guess I'll go back to where I was then.

Vote: NicCage

That said, 1-Shot Doctor seems like a really weird claim to me. It's weak and unusual enough that it doesn't look like something that would be faked, but in the same way it's far easier to explain why he's not being killed (since if the claim is true the Mafia probably would like to keep him around for a while to keep suspicion high, as opposed to a full Doctor claim which would make everyone expect instant death).

Wagon on NC, jumps off, jumps back on after question about it, jumps off after claim when acfan wagon gets going, jumps back on NC after claim and acfan wagon loses steam. Also voiced opinions of supporting basically any wagon that had potential.

Jumps on acfan Day 2, and conveniently leaves the wagon as it gains steam, the first time he has done this all game, and acfan flipped red. Puts his vote safely on a player that nobody has discussed or expressed many scum reads about. This interaction with acfan jumping off that wagon at a convenient time is pretty damning to me.

wrt leaves, it's the whole package, the ridiculous claim, the convenient timing of the claim with a general consensus was him being a main lynch target today and the fact that even if he did rb me, to immediately assume that he stopped a NK is ridiculous.

With this knifesmith role, leaves assumes there is a doctor. So why did he come out guns blazing saying he caught me if he knows there is a feasible alternative explanation for the NK (scum shooting into doc protect). Coming out like that with that assumption is not town play.

[Scott Brosius]

If SB has no actions to use he wouldn't know whether he has been roleblocked or not. There being no kill doesn't have to be due to a roleblock. If hp is 3rd party, I'd rather want to lynch SB.

In other words, he wouldn't know whether hp is lying about the block.

With this knifesmith role, leaves assumes there is a doctor. So why did he come out guns blazing saying he caught me if he knows there is a feasible alternative explanation for the NK (scum shooting into doc protect). Coming out like that with that assumption is not town play.

Obviously I have no idea if he actually roleblocked me. But he's making assumptions he wouldn't be making if his role was true. If he knows there is 99% chance there is a doctor (due to this "knifesmith" role), he would not be immediately assuming that he stopped a NK just because of a roleblock.

[Scott Brosius]

With a second evil-doer dead, you all went to sleep hoping that you could go back to your ordinary lives tomorrow. Eight of you woke up with that same hope, one didn't.

Hapahauli,

Vanilla Townie

, killed Night 3

Votecount 4.1

Not voting: GoodCopBadCop, Dyslexicon, Cheery Pie, Jake from Rainbowdash, Varsoon, Scott Brosius, Daemon385, Toomai (8)

With 8 Alive, it takes 4 to Lynch

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2013-06-17 13:00:00)

Shouldn't it be 5 to lynch?

You're right. It is 5 to lynch

CP is 99% town with hp flip.

Not changing my tune here, Toomai needs rope. Again in D4 proving to jump on the easiest wagon or any wagon that seems it could get any support, yet the only time this didn't happen was the acfan wagon. The stalling of WELL IF YOU GUYS WANNA WAIT WHILE I REREAD reeks of buying time to hopefully forget about him.

Vote: toomai

Daemon's interaction with acfan is questionable as well, barely mentioning D1, then absolutely no mention of him on D2 when he was obviously the focal point of discussion.

[Scott Brosius]

I feel like this will solve itself.

Also toomai did vote acfan D2, but makes it seem like he was on the lynch as well, which he wasn't.

[Scott Brosius]

Possibility, who did you protect?

[Scott Brosius]

Guess this is it.

Vote: Dyslexicon

[Scott Brosius]

cause when scum is in a situation where they have no hope of winning, like this game, the best thing to do is just end the game and let town enjoy their win. dragging it on like he did is a personal annoyance and really just a dick move.

Yawn. If you want to be all dramatic about it thats fine. As I said in my QT, if I had kept CP alive, there was a sliver of a chance I could have spun him to question you being alive. Obviously I could not let you flip, because that would confirm everything, but CP was showing signs of questioning your alignment earlier in the game, perhaps his suspicion would have grown with subsequent days.

Did I have very very very slim hopes of winning? Yes. Did I have no hope of winning. No.

I was hoping to be around as this day started for some semblance of a chance but obviously I was lynched before that occurred.

[Scott Brosius]

seriously scott TONY FUCKING HAWK


yes i am still annoyed about that almost two years later

hahahaha i was wondering why you were directing all that hate. still an excellent game.

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/KAyPcLCYgjynn

[Scott Brosius]