Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Future

Pretty sure it's not all it's cracked up to be.

But seriously now, since it's out there,

Vote: Slandaar

82% of the time when questions are asked as part of the opening posts they are posted by scum.

[PeregrineV]

BP's "I don't reply to stupid questions" seems unnecessarily confrontational.

Peregrine, how serious are you about your Slandaar vote?

The player:

I like to think I can spot Slandaar as scum or town eventually, but it takes a lot of posting to get there. If the pressure can start now, we can save a lot of grief later if he is scum.

The action:

See this game/post. Yes, the number has gone down, but it's reliable enough as a starting point.

[PeregrineV]

First impressions: BP/Grimgroove scum team. Consider yourselves FoS'd. It would be cool if this would actually turn out to be a crumb later on in the game

Wherefrom does your first impressions come from? And what connects them as a team?

[PeregrineV]

Up to page 3, but will come back tonight.

[PeregrineV]

In my town pile for now:
Red Dragon
BP
Grimgrove

Looking like scum:
thegooner
Future

Looking for a direction:
Darthe
Slandaar

Null: the rest

Vote: thegooner

[PeregrineV]

What do you mean by the "looking for a direction"-read?

town-Darthe is lots more active. But, this is also a smaller gamesize than the other I've played with him where he was more town-active. So, I want more from them than they have provided.

[PeregrineV]

How can Baezu be null PV?

Play seems more new than scummy. But, refuse to give a town-pass to new players anymore. That burned me once. So null for now.

[PeregrineV]

Back later tonight.

[PeregrineV]

@Elyse I just feel like scum will want to nk me because I've been causing a lot of ripples in the water and making accusations. Creating controversy is usually something scum wants to quiet. I know it may be early to use caps, but I wanted to emphasize the fact that I am indeed town. I'm not really worried about a lynch but I don't think people have to wait until they're at L-1 to make a case for their alignment. I want it to be clear to everyone that their votes need to be elsewhere. The fact that future's vote is on me is prob indicative that he is indeed scum. I'm not going to apologize for being eager in this game. It's because I know I'm town and I'm doing my best to ensure that votes go where they need to go.

I'm from Missouri.

[PeregrineV]

@PeregrineV's 109
How does BP looks town to you?

Scum doesn't argue for No lynches, because they want to mislynch instead.
They especially don't take a no-lynch stance and then actively defend it after it's been pointed out how it's not the best solution.
Of course his play and stances will be continually evaluated, but for day1, I'm good with BP=town.

[PeregrineV]

Note to self: sort this game out.

Note to Red: No lynch is completely experience related not alignment related on D1.

[PeregrineV]

Thanks for being useless!'

Perpetrating the stereotype...why?
Why was it useless to give my scumreads and townreads. And why has no one else that has done so been labeled useless?

[PeregrineV]

Thanks for being useless!'

Perpetrating the stereotype...why?
Why was it useless to give my scumreads and townreads. And why has no one else that has done so been labeled useless?

[PeregrineV]

Well, I just want to prompt anyone from hammering Future. It's unwise to do so this early.

Maybe it is, but you sound pretty definite. When is it "wise" to hammer?

[PeregrineV]

Maybe he's just a poor mafia player.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Future

[PeregrineV]

I'm not saying the he couldn't be scum or that he is town, I just have a null read on him and I don't see much coming off the wagon information wise.

If you can meta yourself for a minute, how many times have you read a player as "null" and they ended up flipping scum?

[PeregrineV]

Sunnydays is going to have to do a little better than that in the Future.



Damn I'm funny.

Vote:thegooner

[PeregrineV]

@PeregrineV
How confident is your read on gooner? Any particular highlights why he seems scum to you?

Answered this pre-tiger, but his first real post expresses a concern with the perception he may still be in RVS.
His second post was on mafia theory and his take on it.
Third was badly reasoned vote on Beazu.

Confidence is it's day1, so willing to listen to other arguments, but my own inferior scumhunting has brought me to this conclusion.

[PeregrineV]

Ok with a vote on either Nacho right now. Not sure who the third is.

[PeregrineV]

Looks like some good reading since my last post. Will do so later.

Vote: Nachomamma

[PeregrineV]

Nothing to add. May or may not be back before Monday.

[PeregrineV]

back on 21. Will catch up this game 2nd tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

Will catchup here tonight.

[PeregrineV]

IMO, town-Darthe is very clearly town.

Here, it hasn't happened yet.

Vote: Darthe

[PeregrineV]

Actually looking at the player list I feel like everyone is exactly where I thought previously, varying shades of towniness other than my top three of four scumreads, which I'd rather not talk about because then scum will know who I'm reading as town and scum (besides Elyse and Darthe). If anyone NEEDS a specific read let me know.

VOTE: Darthe

Since I doubt scum will kill or play based on your reads, I'd like to hear your stance on everybody.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote: Darthe

@Baezu

- would like to hear analysis on your wagon, and a reads list

por favor

.

[PeregrineV]

Forgot about cop claim. Why is there a wagon on him at all?

Vote: Darthe.

[PeregrineV]

Just back today, will come back later.

[PeregrineV]

Red Dragon hasn't come back and defended himself the way I'd expect him to as town, especially with the recent pressure. It's such a whole different Red Dragon we are seeing D2. That worries me immensely

Agree with this part.

@Red-

why nothing to say about your wagon?

[PeregrineV]

@Grim-

Sorry, but it looked like it was between Darthe and the claimed cop, I wasn't lynching the cop.

[PeregrineV]

Come and play with us Peregrine

I shouldn't be awake, but I'm off today/tomorrow, so will catch up. What's up?

[PeregrineV]

Come and play with us Peregrine

I shouldn't be awake, but I'm off today/tomorrow, so will catch up. What's up?

[PeregrineV]

Your case has also shown the ztife has not been involved very much in the voting. Not sure what that means but just pointing it out. I'd be willing to change my vote since PV was originally who I suspected to be scum and hence wanted to investigate him. Also the case that grim made on ztife is very convincing. My top two scum reads right now are PV and ztife.

you know what? RD can wait. We need to lynch scum and lynch scum now! I'm putting my vote with what my gut has been telling me all along. ..

VOTE: PeregrineV

Try PeptoBismal, cause your guts all wrong.

[PeregrineV]

My problem with Elyse-

Millers usually claim miller. Doing that would usually give you a few days from both sides, enough to use your powers to validate yourself.
You used your protect, allegedly, on the alleged town cop, and now you are voting him.
A good 40% of the Nachomamma scumhunting was on Elsye.

Why Elyse might be town

A complex claim like that either takes planning or is partially based in truth.
Some of her posts look really town (although others not so much)

Red Dragon issue

Last normal we played I was scum and he was town, but he was obviously scummy town day1 and day2. He kind of gave up the ghost when his scumchoice flipped town, but here it's even worse. Ddi someone give an actual case somewhere?

Slandaar

I like the appearance of trying. You would think analysis would uncover information, and conclusions would be reached from that information. Instead, it looked like analysis but turns out it was only conclusion support? Why not just say so and give evidence as such instead of crouching it into "I'm going to look at this info and see what conclusions I can draw."?

Miss Stranger

Like the posting style, but wayyyyyyyyyyyy too much theory talk on her part is not going over well with me. And reads are seeming a little too convenient.

thegooner & Future both being scumreads and being replaced is somewhat annoying. Both replacements are seeming more town than their predecessors.

[PeregrineV]

Can you link me to this Red Dragon game also please.

Slandaar not sure if this is the game PV is referring to but RD was in it...


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=26891

This is it.

[PeregrineV]

Slandaar

I like the appearance of trying. You would think analysis would uncover information, and conclusions would be reached from that information. Instead, it looked like analysis but turns out it was only conclusion support? Why not just say so and give evidence as such instead of crouching it into "I'm going to look at this info and see what conclusions I can draw."?

Miss Stranger

Like the posting style, but wayyyyyyyyyyyy too much theory talk on her part is not going over well with me. And reads are seeming a little too convenient.

Well, Peregrine, now that Slandaar has compiled information, do you mind giving us conclusions that you make of the data? Show us what's missing in Slandaar's conclusions and what you think his evidence points to.

Overall, I think your two reads on Slandaar and Miss Stranger are spot-on. Especially Miss Stranger.

There's not enough information. Trying to do relational tells doesn't make sense without a scum flip. So his "analyis" is currently in the state of limbo, since I think all he did is say "Person X voted Person Y 3 times."

If you really think there is more there I guess I can look at it again. But it has to be worth the time and effort.

[PeregrineV]

It is just hard to defend yourself when the points against you are valid. I know that I'm town, so the only thing I really ask is make sure that you guys have a backup. I really see no world where a good town would not lynch me to be honest.

Right now I still think nacho is scum. Slandaar is impossible to read as always... but that is really all I have.

The major points against you seem to be you pushed for a lynch of town. That doesn't make you scum, that's how the game is played.
If you mislynch once, don't quit the game. Learn from where you went wrong and keep looking.

[PeregrineV]

@PeregrineV:

Excuse me, but the only theory talk on my part was in regards to Elyse's role (someone had to point it out, and I don't see how that is incriminating in any way). In fact, theory talk is only incriminating if it takes priority over scumhunting - clearly not the case with me, and clearly the case with Ztife. Funny thing you don't even mention that. But I already suspect him anyway, so even more the reason to lynch him after you flip scum.
Why are you reading Slandaar's posts backwards? Of course analysis leads to conclusions and supports them. If this was an attempt to make Slandaar look scummy, I'm sorry but it backfired.

VOTE: PeregrineV

It's time to go where scumses belong to.

@Red Dragon:

If that's all your reads, you have stopped following the game long ago. I wonder why.

@SunnyDays:

What are the reasons, please?

665- About No lynching, self-lynching
666- About NL, and NK WIFOM
669- Darthe vote when there are 3 3-vote wagons already.

Elyse (3) - Baezu, Slandaar, SunnyDays (L-4)
Nachomamma8 (3) - Red Dragon, PeregrineV, Ztife (L-4)
Baezu (3) - Nachomamma8, Elyse, Darthe (L-4)

707-Seems more like white knighting Beazu while attacking Darthe using some weird theory
708-No Lynch reminder
739-Elyse accusation is INVALID while Darthe was SCUMSLIP
745- Two scum in

Nachomamma8

, Elyse,

Darthe

, Nachopappa, Ztife, Lucky2u
821-Town is Grim, Baezu (the claimed cop), Slandaar and SunnyDays, RedDragon, Nachopappa a null

I don't know. I guess you could be town upon closer scrutiny. But sometimes your posts seem to be....wordy without being informative.
But, I like your posting style.

[PeregrineV]

Way to misrep me, PeregrineV:

665- About No lynching, self-lynching

1 sentence taken out of context.

666- About NL, and NK WIFOM

Analysis, not information.

669- Darthe vote when there are 3 3-vote wagons already.

Elyse (3) - Baezu, Slandaar, SunnyDays (L-4)
Nachomamma8 (3) - Red Dragon, PeregrineV, Ztife (L-4)
Baezu (3) - Nachomamma8, Elyse, Darthe (L-4)

If you actually read my reads, I was not leaning scum on either of those. So why sheep someone I don't find scummy enough instead of someone I had a strong read on? You prefer sheeping, really?

707-Seems more like white knighting Beazu while attacking Darthe using some weird theory

Look closely. I'm not whiteknighting Baezu, the "town tells" in this case are things Darthe himself admitted.

708-No Lynch reminder

Taking things out of context. This post was meant to remind people to vote and not that NL is bad.

739-Elyse accusation is INVALID while Darthe was SCUMSLIP

Honestly can you even read? I'm not accusing Elyse, I'm saying Darthe's accusation is void. The scumslip was the polar switch on Baezu from town to obvious scum based on the void logic and hopping on the wagon when it gained steam.

745- Two scum in

Nachomamma8

, Elyse,

Darthe

, Nachopappa, Ztife, Lucky2u

At that point most of those looked pretty scummy, Darthe specifically.

821-Town is Grim, Baezu (the claimed cop), Slandaar and SunnyDays, RedDragon, Nachopappa a null

So calling an obvious town "town" is now "too convenient"?

I don't know. I guess you could be town upon closer scrutiny. But sometimes your posts seem to be....wordy without being informative.

Every post of mine is informative.

But, I like your posting style.

What are you complaining about then?

PeregrineV (-1)

Peregrine (

-2

)

I stand by my vote. This attack was nitpicking at its finest.

@SunnyDays:

I do find him scummy. I just want to know YOUR reasons. Mine are already stated, and I don't think I'm the first one who noticed them.

Not a misrep, my opinion/interpretation.
Would you prefer me to think you scum for no reason?
In addition to the Darthe scumslip that never was (because he flipped town), your listing of me as scum is also fail.

So, in sum, you have a single player listed as scum who could actually be scum. And a game this size means there are usually 3.

Perhaps now would be a good time to "flesh out" your null reads.

[PeregrineV]

Are we set on the current wagons? After spending some time with the thread I have a question about the Baezu claim. Why is noone jumping on her for fumbling it? First making a claim, then conveniently getting role blocked, and then forgetting who she investigated. The mod PMed her to correct her? I don't really believe that a mod would do that, or atleast I wouldn't. Also the way she told the thread that if you call her out on that scummy appearing action it's only because your scum, is suspect as hell. She of course then followed it up by actually doing it on the people who did.

Also the whole thing with the way Miss Stranger has a point system bothers me. It's kind of like "Hey look how town I am! I have charts and a point system, no scum would do this!". It's dangerous because I assume she does it when town and scum and that she must never get called out as scum because of it.

Guarantee the PereV wagon is bad.
Gave my reasons for the Red Dragon=prob-town read.

Since you are looking over claims, look of Elsye JOAT claim and analyze/comment please.

[PeregrineV]

In addition to the Darthe scumslip that never was (because he flipped town),

VOTE: PeregrineV

John 11:35

[PeregrineV]

You do recall being on the Darthe wagon yourself, right?

And even regardless of the hypocrisy, I find almost nothing scummier than blaming the people who tried scumhunting for mistakes they made. Darthe didn't make a scumslip, but his "switch" to Baezu was objectively speaking scummy as hell.

Right, but, Darthe was town. Therefore, he could be scummy, and he could play badly, but he could not scumslip.

[PeregrineV]

Given activity levels and the fact it's Friday, I'll claim now.

Doc, protected Grimgrove last night as my strongest and a universal town read.

@Slandaar- do you have more for why lucky is scum?

Vote: Ztife

[PeregrineV]

PV YOU MUST CLAIM EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE FULL DOC IS YOUR CLAIM?

Yes.

[PeregrineV]

Wait

Why did you protect Grim and not the claimed cop PV?

Because he would be the obvious protection target, I didn't protect him.

[PeregrineV]

Wait

Why did you protect Grim and not the claimed cop PV?

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the JOAT say he protected the cop claim? Clearly PV knew that the JOAT would do exactly that and saw no reason to do it himself. Either that or it was a scum slip. I wonder which is more likely...

Actually, that's the part of the Elyse claim that bugs me the most, the protect part.

And I had no clue whether the cop was the cop, but if he lived through the night he would be roleblocked or they would try to kill him later.

[PeregrineV]

And I had no clue whether the cop was the cop, but if he lived through the night he would be roleblocked or they would try to kill him later.

If she lived through the night and a doc didn't protect her then it would be because she was roleblocked if town yes.

But, why would you assume there is a roleblocker and not protect the Claimed Cop?

Why does try to kill later matter?

Because, in my experience day1 cop claims have pretty much 0 effectiveness. They are blocked or killed or scum. Sometimes scum takes a chance and let's the town cop do their thing, but since that would confirm another town player, it's dumb to let that happen.
Baezu lowered the chance of n1 kill by claiming odd cop.
So, I figured I'd protect a universal town read that is not up for a lynch later in the game.
And Baezu, if allowed to live at night, will have to be lynched.

[PeregrineV]

Ztife, could you give your reads on people?

And while he does that, thread avoidance bad-bad.

Vote: Nachopappa

[PeregrineV]

What are your thoughts on Lucky?

Vaguely half-formed, but through day1 no thoughts really, leaving at a null.
Lucky's replacing looked kind of townish, but yes, in a new player way.

Chernobyl ISO looks kind of town. But, some of it is dependent on flips from other players.

Not particularly feeling his lynch today sans evidence.

[PeregrineV]

Why will I have to he lynched if I survive the night? I am effectively a VT now because scum can just RB me every night. Also I'm not necessarily obvtown so instead of wasting a nk on me they would be wiser to take out someone that is not just as likely to get lynched as nk'd, which I believe I am.

But they don't have to RB you every night, since you claimed odd-night cop, right?

And standard procedure is if the cop lives too long, lynch them to ensure they are not scum fake-claiming. This confirms your copness, and confirms all your results.

There are exceptions, of course, but night actions would have to conclusively prove you as cop, which doesn't happen often.

[PeregrineV]

Because, in my experience day1 cop claims have pretty much 0 effectiveness. They are blocked

or killed

or scum. Sometimes scum takes a chance and let's the town cop do their thing, but since that would confirm another town player, it's dumb to let that happen.
Baezu lowered the chance of n1 kill by claiming odd cop.
So, I figured I'd protect a universal town read that is not up for a lynch later in the game.
And Baezu, if allowed to live at night, will have to be lynched.

Bolded: Not if you as a doc protect them. Are you a Doc Peregrine?

Yes.

How did Baezu lower her chances by claiming ODD cop? she would get a result N1 I agree if she claimed EVEN but not ODD.

Scum can ignore possible results from n2, so can decide to NK her n2 or n3 without fear of a result.

Why is it you have not been voting Baezu since she has been allowed to live?

Because if she's the odd cop then why would I want to lynch her? See 1004, but day2 is not the day to lynch the cop claim.

[PeregrineV]

How did Baezu lower her chances by claiming ODD cop? she would get a result N1 I agree if she claimed EVEN but not ODD.

Scum can ignore possible results from n2, so can decide to NK her n2 or n3 without fear of a result.

How?

How what?

You are a doc right? how does this magical kill happen if you don't allow it?

The same RBer that blocked Baezu blocks me and kills her.

Why is it you have not been voting Baezu since she has been allowed to live?

Because if she's the odd cop then why would I want to lynch her? See 1004, but day2 is not the day to lynch the cop claim.

Well when is? tomorrow? nothing will have changed at that point, the day after?

It depends on the setup, really, doesn't it? Tomorrow will be another flip, another NK or two, and more chance to find scum.

What are you expecting from a cop claim who says they are roleblocked?

In the way of night actions, nothing. In the way of scumhunting & hardcore posting, alot.

And you know all this. You've played enough mafia. Why are you acting like the cop claim has to die day2, and asking questions you already know the answer to?

[PeregrineV]

In my humble opinion...Town were basically screwed when MattP replaced in as SunnyDays and all three of its active power roles were outed/lynched by the end of Day 2. So the fact that they brought it down to 3p lylo was pretty impressive, because that's probably the best town could have gotten in this game unless there was a super-sharp megaplayer on the town side.

I have an endgame survey for people to fill out if you could:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19iLjyI ... 0/viewform

Thanks for running this. I enjoyed my time in it. I will fill out the survey within a few days.

@Ztife- I felt the same way about you. Should have went with my gut.